Is European Manufacturing Superior to American?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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I wouldn't call Tesla quality...
If one your employees would put out products that had tolerances like Tesla's they'd likely be fired.
Generally speaking if a low quality product comes out of a Chinese workshop it's because the American/European company that ordered it specified low quality to keep the costs down. Their actual production skills/abilities are on par with Europe/NA.
Tesla's are expensive crappy cars, especially the ones made in the USA. You obviously don't like HAAS anymore because of their poor quality and I agree with that. But tesla is like the Haas of cars.
We appreciate your patriotism! If you are representing all levels of manufacturing, teach us optimize our HAAS, Hurco, Hardinge and Bridgeport products also. Thank you
Orange vise. Bridgeport clamping Pierson pallet
Your comments in the beginning of the video are very disingenuous, I'm sure there are brands of equipment that you won't use because of quality but the brands you actually you use, you use because they offered you a great sponsorship. If you don't want to admit that then just avoid the topic, don't lie about why your choosing the brands you use.
My father and I get on this topic all the time, the newer machines of our worksite break or give alerts every other moment, yet the older machines have taken beating after beating over 30 years from horrible and complacent machinists, but still work beautifully
I’m glad you are vocal about MADE IN USA products. I tend to spend more money to get that American quality. It’s a good feeling that you are doing a favor by helping your fellow countrymen craft rather than getting an item somewhere else. That goes for every person who should buy from their country. Interstate commerce internally rather than importing from another nation.
I like how he’s showing Hellers talking about “buy American”. 😂
pretty good. though found one mistake and that was the china part ( "made in china" does does not mean bad by defolt ) china gives you the quality you pay for
you pay them low then give you low quality
you pay them high they give you high quality
hint's wht the best considered headphone amp no matter the cost is a "mostly made and fully assembled and tested china" one ( talking about audio-gd )
This always frustrates me when I hear people say everything made in China is crap. The west has been outsourcing production there for decades, do these people really think they haven't figured out how to make things just as well as we could/can? China has invested incredibly in narrowing the technological divide.
The reason to not manufacture goods in China is not a technological limitation, it's the risk of IP theft and the fact that to get high-precision low-tolerance parts you'll be forking out enough that it isn't that much cheaper than manufacturing in the US or EU in most cases.
When you manufacture in China you're subject to china's rules and policies. Which basically boils down to whatever the CCP decides is in their best interest.
What I don't agree with is supporting a country that Oregon harvests un willing Weger muslims for money or puts fallen gong practitioners (variation of ti chi) in concentration camps to be re educated sometimes indefinitely.
Or their support of blowing Ukraine to smithereens.
But yea buy their shit why don't you. Whyle your over there get some desiel off of the Kremlin and support even more tyrannical control... 🤦♂️🙅♂️
@@Flintlocke89 and in the cases where its pretty much the same price its a better idear to get it made in your own country do to shipping time and shipping cost ( witch in some cases can be extreme ) and its easier to talk with one based in the same country since you speak the same languich as you do ( aka one less hurtel/headace to overcome when the price is almost the same )
At what point does the cost to quality make it pointless to outsource? If the part will cost equal to be made in USA or China then you might as well get it manufactured in USA if that’s where you live. The Chinese will eventually reach a point where their cost of labor will be equal to the cost of labor in the USA because their goal is to be an economic power house and it won’t become that if they continue to value their labor at a low cost, so the idea of manufacturing in your own country and not overseas will be more attractive.
@@Ap_twsh agree. if it cost the same then just get it made at home ( home country )
I'm all about buying American made and am willing pay extra for it. In the shop it's American first choice, European and Japan second, China fourth. People ask what's third? I say I'll make it myself or we'll find another way.
Also, people have asked me why I drive a Honda Ridgeline. I tell them it's a great vehicle for me (I don't need a full-size truck anymore), it's super dependable, and it's one of the "most American-made" vehicles out there. Higher than Fords and GMCs in fact. Sometimes you have to look past them name.
Wish I could give this a better rating than a "thumbs up".
Thank you for all that Titan does and stands for.
I thought this was supposed to be about Europe instead of being a political rant.
You guys should do some videos on Grobb since they have an American factory.
We looked at Grob…..and they make a good machine. But we determined that Heller is better, not just in terms of quality but in terms of loving America. Consider Grob’s table……1 sided trunnion bearing. Heller uses 2, both sides of table are bearing encapsulated.
Once a few months ago I tried reaching out to Titans of CNC for some grinding work I needed done and got no response to either my calls or emails. Who should I contact in order to get a quote from you guys??
Who did you call as we don’t have a number. Info@titansofcnc.com is the best way. We are focused on education now.
Thanks
Great video!👍 Keep up the good work.🇺🇸🇺🇸
Because metric adds +20 in Quality.
Even China actually have good quality products. Tesla's made in China are better quality then the California made ones of the same model.. I would put a lot of the blame on the importers who gets the cheapest quote they can for a product with no quality control then simply re brand it now and then. But in the end it is down to the consumer, as long as people keep buying no brand / unknown brands the cycle of crap will continue.
Dont you guys use doosan cnc machines? I understand if you do. Probably the most american thing I own is my pollow and the quilt my mom made me.
Made in does not really mean anything anymore these days. It all comes down to individual companies these now, making a name for your company and create brand recognition for it has never been more important I think. The plus side is that its now easier than ever before to research and find these good companies and if you cant find them at home its also never been easier to have products shipped to you. So atleast there is a silver lining somewhere=).
Well... For me, as cosmopolitan, patriotism is just a joke. My homeworld is a planet Earth, not an imaginary line on it's map. So, I don't care, where the product comes from. I just care about it's quality and usability.
The way things are going in China, “made in China “ may not be as big of a problem as it has been in the past.
I'm not American but that was one great speech Barry.
Hey thanks Mehmet!
All that talk and not a HAAS machine in sight.
EXACTLY. And this video explains WHY
@@barrysetzer wouldn’t waiting for parts for your machine to come from overseas pretty much stop production and I’m not sure how that brand works but pretty sure you would also half to fly a technician in from where ever the machine is made I think that’s why people go with haas the repair network across Canada and the United States machines can be up and running as quickly as they broke fast and cheap and American made ?
@@topnotchtools1918 I doubt they would ever need to fly someone from where the company actually originates. The US market is big enough for these companies to hire US people or even build their machines there to begin with.
Do all the EU machines use all EU made parts?? 🤔
You used the wrong then/than
Pleaseeeeee.... sell more metric tools for the european people
Have you drove a German electric car compared to a Tesla ? 😂
Have you driven a Tesla Plaid?? Absolutely smokes every other car on the market!
@@barrysetzer Is that really a yard stick for the quality of a car? If so, a Rolls Royce would lose out to a Ford Sierra Cosworth.
Fun fact! It isn't bc it isn't American
🇺🇲🇺🇲
BARRY FOR PRESIDENT!!!!
😂😂🍻
Part of the blame should also go to the consumer for (just about) always going for the cheapest option - especially when all the options kind-of look the same. And the guys making the decisions aren't (usually) the ones using the machines.
While I don't disagree with the "Vote With Your Money" argument, leaving the blame at the foot of the innumerable faceless consumers is just as good as doing nothing about it.
Consumers are people, and people's decision making comes from various sources. Education, upbringing, culture, information dissemination (including ads/propaganda), mental wellbeing, personal economics of time and finances, accessibility, stakes and career motivations, psychological manipulation and people's resistence to it, what's being allowed into the markets, and etc etc.
Things like these contribute to where money goes.
And sadly the USA has a LOT of room for improvement in all those things. The country is sick.
@@FiltyIncognitoWell stated. I think the more right politically one gets in the U.S., the more willing one can be to blame the consumer for what is not solely on them. Marketing basically allows for a company to create a problem then sell us the solution. Supply and demand hasn’t been a fair determining factor in a long time.
Cool video! Barry holding it down as always! Thanks for the information!
Now days, “made in America” means made in America by Mexican migrants.
I live in Switzerland and when i grew up i used to think our produce was inferior to whatever they have in other parts of the world. Nowadays after I've traveled many countries, i must say the quality of buildings, public infrastructure, food and snacks, education and what not is far superior here. I think it's sad how greed has ruined the quality of many things especially in the USA. Just look at what ingredients and what amounts of unhealthy additives are allowed in foods over there compared to most western countries.
It's great to see y'all have a strong backbone and commit to your ideals as an American
@misanthrop he’s right tho. Plus, you aren’t superhuman
@misanthrop The former chancellor of germany Helmut Schmidt smoked chain until his death at 96. Exceptions confirm the rule. More people die of cardiovascular disease than of cancer or any other disease in the west. 700.000 in the US 2020.
Tesla makes the best electric cars?😂😂
99% of Americans would choose a Porsche Taycan over a Tesla
Thank god
Probably a joke
Nice baite 🤣
Ok if you pay 100k for a car with worse built quality than a vw then go for it 🤣
Our shop's techniques have been revolutionized by your videos. We are a small electric motor manufacturer with only 12 people. Having access to quality tools makes all the difference. The Dodeka shell mills GODrills and Harvi I TE end mills alone have saved so much machine time and money for us when making tools. Would have never been able to buy such quality tools without your promos and knowledge. Please keep it up, you have helped more companies than you know.
Hey thanks Seth! You are exactly why we do what we do! We appreciate you!
BOOM! Be sure to make a CNC Expert profile so we can check out those electric motors!
There is nothing more expensive than, cheap tooling and equipment.
Pay the money once, and reap the benefits for the long run!
Well said. Cheap is expensive and quality lasts
Tesla makes the best EVs, LOL. That is empirically not true. The EV power train is fine, but the actual car wrapped around it is crap. Consumer Reports has Tesla ranked 27 out of 28 brands for reliability and build quality. Keep in mind that Consumer Reports gets their data from people that actually own the product as well. It's not just a guess or a conclusion based off of the quality of a single test unit. Consumer Reports surveys thousands of actual owners to get real world data. Being one of the few choices in the EV market has led to Tesla's success, not the quality of the product.
i would disagree with kennametal being american made, sure it says made in usa but i have holders that say made in brazil, made in bosnia, made in germany so its kind of a lie atleast to me
As a Chartered Design Engineer in the UK I love what you do! Teaching the next generation of machinists what is possible and exposing engineers to what they're really asking someone to do on the shop floor is invaluable.
In the UK, the British automotive sector went down this path in the 70s/80s of making crap from cheap materials, and the market of the patriotic buyer wasn't enough to save them, so it pretty well killed the British car industry. The US car industry has done the same thing now, luckily your domestic market is big enough to keep them in business.
UK manufacturing is pretty well respected today again, because in the most part we only make low volume high end Aerospace/Motorsport and Medical stuff or complex things like engines. The reality is there are places in the world where labour and materials are cheaper, trying to compete with them on cost you won't win, so the answer is to do the things that technically they may struggle with.
Although I have to say Tesla is second only to Apple for being terrible for built-in obselesence and restricting the ability to repair their products.
Throw away culture is coming to an end, we need to get used to the circular economy, be prepared to pay for quality and expect things to last and be repairable.
If you've never been to or haven't worked in China it's hard to know this but actually a lot of their tools and products that are in China are of equal or higher quality than in the US. But buying Chinese made components or parts in the US is usually bad because the company's importing them are only willing to pay bottom dollar for the cheap stuff so what you see is the cheap Chinese stuff rather than their high quality stuff which would easily cost you as much if not more than US-made components and parts
Are there DNS machinery made in the US or EU? I've worked with some Chinese made mills back when it was still Doosan, and after year of trouble we ditched them for Hermle's. Best choice for the company. Every issue we had was fixed in no time, and never occurred again
Well..."Tesla is making the best electric cars" is a gross overstatement. Quality is crap, reliability is poor and customer care is the worst, just to mention some.
Tesla makes the best EV.
LOL
For someone who runs a high precision machine shop in the US, that's a very ignorant statement. Tesla is rife with lawsuits and complaints over the poor quality of delivered cars.
Made in USA is a bit of a joke in the more developed parts of the world. If you’re looking for quality you’d better be looking for made in Switzerland, Germany, Japan or Sweden…
Tesla doesnt make the best electric vehicles haha what are you thinking. Cheap plastic and terrible production standard
And you get to pay them $2000 if you want any color but white.
We live in a day and age were quality and pride have taken a back seat to production numbers and billed man hours are a main focus...
Yep, I would agree that this is 'patriotism', nowt wrong with waving flags, but helping to uplift your country is really what patriotism is.
One exception to the proverbial rule: Since a lot of high-end audio equipment is manufactured in China, some more entrepeneurial companies have not just been manufacturing for Western brands, but they have also have been developing their own fully original non-copied products. Things like amplifiers and tube amplifiers, high-end DACs, headphones, dedicated portable audio players, etc.
There are Chinese manufacturers out there that can go toe-to-toe with high-end mainstream stuff. Out of my league, I'm not an audio enthousiast, but that would be Made in China I wouldn't mind having on display.
same. as long that the quality is there then i dont give a rat's buttom where its made
This is something that resolves by economy itself. Sometimes it will be an American made product, sometimes a German made, sometimes a Chinese one. Customers do not care where it comes from, but if it does the job at a reasonable price. Tesla cars are one of the most expensive electrical cars around, China is now beginning to launch their models which are less expensive, this will most likely drive Tesla prices down and they will be forced to make the cars elsewhere. What is sad is that you no longer repair items that are broken, you simply replace it like you said. If I buy a CNC machine, computer or even a car I look for, what do I NEED (not wish for) and what is the least amount of time that will give that to me. It might be a Haas, but it might also be a DMG - depending on what I need. I don't care where its made, I care for the TCO and supportability.
Although I can agree with you do not underestamate +1 billion of Chinese, they are filling the quality gap at an incredible speed.
Have some friends who worked for EU companies in China they told me that China is all ready on 98% of what the west have. Greeting from the EU.
European obviously
I seldom see any american made cars or tools in Finland. The quality is simply just not good enough for our climate here and of course the import taxes plays the largest role. I hope and pray our new F35 fighter jets will not let us down like the dodge rams do.
A lot of your critisisms about products not lasting anymore would be significantly reduced if the Right to Repair movement finally passes across the world.
Currently there is no incentive for manufacturers to make their products last and repairable. In fact, it's quite the opposite... if they break the company makes more money.
Now that they will be required to keep and produce spare parts for a minimum term, you can be sure things will improve.
You should also say thanks to the WEF and the Globalists (like your Neo-Conservative polotical factions) for moving all production out of America and Europe and sending it all to China. Look at the state of it all.
I've been wondering why I don't see any Haas machines in the shop anymore and I would guess that reason is they don't stand the test of time, am I correct in saying this?
Yes.
@@barrysetzer Thanks Berry, as I was planning on purchasing one in the future as at some point in time I will have to start making the engines that will change the world and I don't need the machines slowing things down.
I can buy many parts and even new aftermarket parts for my 90s HAAS .. but not my 90s high end 5 axis Jap machine.. plus its resale value is trash
If its made to spec it shouldn't matter where its made
RIP Bethlehem Steel
As someone who remembers American made product 40 or so years ago, they were garbage. American quality standards fell off in the early 70s and by the 80s the US car industry was synonymous with recalls and the machine tool industry was dying fast.
Now you're dependent on foreign machine tools and their support networks to make up the back bone of your manufacturing. This is not good.
Japanese manufacturing surpasses both, in my opinion.
We have a series on Japan starting next week
@@TITANSofCNC Thank you, sir!
I disagree with the Tesla comments. They might be the most efficient electric cars around but the build quality is no better than Chinese made MGs. They don't come anywhere close to having the same level of refinement as a premium German made EV despite having similar price tags.
Typically I don't give any regard to buying local or buying American because time and time again it has been used as nothing more than a license to rip me off. Most of the time it means foreign made but priced as if it is American made.
Right! It gets SUPER old
Great video, but Porsche make electric cars that are far superior to anything Tesla have to offer
No one I know in industry ( high or low ) thinks in the long term , not even medium turn . Fast , cheap and nasty . Don’t give a shit about quality or the environment. Make a buck today and fu** tomorrow 😂. And we thought that the future was going to be better .
Barry is King
Hey bro!
Make it controversial.......very smart guys!
I'm an European currently living in China and I will tell you: "Made in" is just a damn sticker.
As in the US, EU, TW and JP there are companies in China who can do the same with the same quality and standards.
Problem is that consumers want to buy the cheapest possible, and because of that then things have to be dumbed down and processes made simpler, making the parts then have the "Made in China" quality that the world loves to hate and point fingers.
As everywhere, close to perfection takes time, resources, knowledge and specially money.
The triangle trinity also applies here, more than people think: Good, Pretty and Cheap.
You can only pick 2. Everywhere in the world.
Yes, the Chinese can manufacture at high quality but the cost would end up being the same if made in US. The Chinese aren’t going down in cost either, since the US has been doing commerce with them. It’s only gone up, ever since they’ve been developing their economy.
As the Chinese continue to increase their economic growth and their people demand higher pay, which will happen soon, the cost of Chinese made goods will increase because the Chinese are going to raise their labor cost to a point where it is equal to the US and therefore bringing back jobs here is important as it won’t make sense outsourcing as much.
I’ll be quoting a job and sometimes the customer will come back, we usually have these made over seas ….. they will literally run parts fort next to nothing over seas
Some pretty important semiconductor parts are made here in america(shop I work at) and then used over seas (Taiwan) but can someone answer this question Iv always had.. the nature of this company and the customer is they don’t want to improve anything as far as machining goes.. we make parts in the slowest, dumbest way possible, I can increase the parts made per day 5x or more and they absolutely REFUSE to do it, the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” mindset from both.. they want to keep prices higher per part for some reason.. we could make the price of microchips so much lower.. I don’t understand. ( we make over 80% of all the material for the world to make microchips) I keep trying to make improvements cause it would benefit so many industries ..
Hmm didn’t see the EU stepping up. Say Emco seems to now use taiwanese steel not the one from the steel works right next to it.
It’s sad to see so much getting moved to PRC and it sort of feels like out of place as most of that stuff is because of not enough people and not willing todo automation.
The didn’t need to step up because there are at the top in the production of cnc machines
la respuesta corta es "si en Europa el nivel industrial en cuanto a precisión y calidad es superior" y lo seguirá siendo mientras en usa sigan usando un sistema métrico medieval
Loads of US made products are amazing; work ethic and sense of honour give products which last. But Tesla...i've heard some stories which give me pause...
I wouldn't want a Tesla, but SpaceX has been kicking ass.
thx for true opinion! it really true! hello from Russians Machinist's CNC
I caught the Trump plug 😂
Name of the video doesn't really fits but you still made a point. Some company in Europe are overpriced even if they are high end stuff.
Not all management think this way. Move production to countries outside of EU and US. Increase profit margins, screw the customer, screw quality. Get it while the going is good.
Wait, are you saying haas is not the best? Lmao
Yes, cause American manufacturers invest in overseas plants not American plants.
Chinese Quality can be pretty decent, I don't know a whole lot about CNC manufacturing but I do know about PCB manufacturing. You can get PCBs made and assembled for less than 20% of what it would cost in Europe, for pretty much the exact same quality unless you go for some super specific specs that 99.5% of products don't need. Granted, you run the risk of IP theft, but reverse engineering that information by looking at the finished product is not all that difficult if you're dedicated, even for the most complex boards.
Im sure the china man who made is PCB for 20 cents a hour is grateful for the work
@@jordanindustrialcompaction8381 Not really, these types of processes are highly automated, if you calculate it down there is only a couple minutes of worktime in each PCB tops. Wages are not that terrible in China anymore either, being paid 5-10 dollars an hour is pretty normal there now.
The USA has done it before and is capable of competing with the rest of the world in terms of manufacturing. Old tools made in the USA were the best tools my grandfather ever used. They still work today. I want to see in my lifetime American made things again. Everything I buy nowadays isn’t fit to last.
I have a second refrigerator that was American made back in the 1970’s
I have never put a single repair or part into it and it’s still running great
Completely different story for me, since I bought a brand new Chevy S10 back in 1998. Never bought a US made vehicle ever since. It's sad, because I live in the US and I love my country. But I lost faith in reliability of US made car manufacturers back when I was young, and could not afford to have my brand new truck be in the shop for repairs twice a year.
@@ak-79 GM is a bit woke imo, the moment when they start trashing tesla and discouraging the development of electric vehicles.
You get the "made in Germany" sticker if the product is developed in Germany and produced in China.
For real?
@@julianweiser9985 no
That's not allowed
@@marvinslomp3564 Prove it
already bought by Chinese conglomerate
i run a large industrial maintenance shop. We only buy american made tools. It's the least i can do to keep things made in america.
Good day to all. I am looking forward to becoming a member as soon as the "Job Shop" becomes a reality in the near future; for God Is Able.
im new in mold company and i dont know where to start because of improper tools that we have hope that you could help us Regards from philippines
What do you guys think of Haas? I used to see them run some Haas machines in the older videos but haven't seem any for awhile.
Well said and I couldn't agree more.
Haas vs hermle.....
To answer the question, yes.
I shall say what’s not popular but the reason everything is the way it is. Everything became about wealth and greed and we’ve fallen so far from grace. If you can’t make a profit off of cheap junk we’ll, and im not going to get theological but. The father has warned us. God bless and may he open your eyes, heart, body, and soul unto him.
Yup
Yes.
🤓
I am really disappointed that u have left haas , I have personally chosen them for our new machine vm2, instead of doosan
Haas are just completely trash compared to doosan lol
@@max_eley we have a couple of dmg mori machines , I prefer the vm2 over them , they are better in every way, rigidity , accuracy.....
@@doc0302 😂😂😂 lol okay pal
@@max_eley have you ever worked yourself (PROGRAMING AND OPERATING)on dmg mories , haas. I woked on dmc835, and dmu60 5axis for more than 7 years , and when we got the vm2 i was realy surprised if its capabilities.
@@doc0302 I've owned many haas, dmg, and doosans, doosan and dmg are by far superior, if you disagree you are just factually incorrect in terms of actual specs and advertised capabilities
Noboby should be buying from China. I will willingly pay more for another product not made in China. There are many reworked products from China being sold a new.
Love it …. Thanks … no other words are needed … oh One. BOOM
100% on the video. Sad thing with American ethos is they will not take the time or set and keep standards to keep ridiculous performance at any cost in mind. Extra heavy duty bearings, 50% more machine mass, specifically designed axis drives, glass or direct read scales, tuned servo drives etc are forgone for 'good enough' or profit OR not willing to step out and have specific non parts bin components and designs. Yes they are expensive to develop and you must work hard to make it cost effective, but we've in mass lost the novelty to making extremely innovative cutting and manufacturing systems. We can still get there, better now than ever do more engineers and designers have access to more resources.
The chase for fast profits is slowly transforming all industries ( I work in automation in a EU country). There is a need for environmental and long term economic stability that we invest more in broader professional education not just how a CNC or a automated machinery works but also about deep learning into the know how so more workers have a good understanding of their jobs impact in broader sense.
Nowadays there are some key industries that the Chinese are very good at and instead learning on how and why they do it we take an antagonistic approach.
Co-operation is the mother of progress.
I’d love to cooperate more with China if the CCP was gone and replaced with a non-authoritarian government.
Awesome video Barry! I agree 1000%
I would want to be a patriot, but today it is not sure ,who is cheating and who is not. More over hi price of a product is not guarantee of hi quaity as it used to be. In late 70's I was new in America. I lived in Miami and got job at APT tools. The owner made many different tools for machine shops.Among others metal drills. The consumption in those times was so hi, that he and others with similar line of products in US did not manage to satisfy the market's demand. So what they did was, they were buying drills from Poland bringing them in, run it (I was actually doing that job) through centerless grinder -just kissing it to remove ethe etching, which said 'Made in Poland' and then run it throu our own Electric Etching Machine to stamp it/etch it as 'Made in USA'.....And I did not see all what was going on there. Later on in California I have seen similar schemes. ...Having experience like this, you start to doubt everybody. Is the price I am paying only to incerease someone's elses unfair profits...???