@@domesticcat1725 And that was when the GM decided not to share any snacks and turned off their wi-fi router. Then there were rot grubs, vargouille, shadows, and intellect devourers. Lots of them. And, finally, the true mastermind revealed: one lucky halfling bard who merrily ruins it for everyone. ...Then the rocks fall, and everyone dies.
@@lordyellowman Like.. losing your job, losing your wife, being press-ganged into working for a... well, gang. Then having some demon show up and throw you into a vat of acid, permanently scarring your entire body for life. When all you wanted to do is be a comedian?
Wakfu made a villain that I fell in love with: A man fueled by his regret of having ignored his family due to his research, who now scours the world killing innocents and gathering their 'essence' to power a time machine so he can go back in time to when his family was alive, his excuse for that being "once I go back in time, all the people I have killed will be alive again." Brilliant design in my opinion.
@@logandunlap9156 Disagree, more like "anti-hero" if we were to scale his morality. It's not totally evil, or overly cruel compared to others, but it could be seen as messed up. But he is definitely not a villan.
There's no alignment requirement for protagonists. Protagonists are the focus of the story, and antagonists are the ones who oppose them. "Evil" is only a matter of perspective *if* the word is used the way some people use "monster": As a way to control behavior and alienate those who they do not like. There are people that believe certain lifestyles are "Evil", but they aren't actually using the term the way it's meant to be used. They don't mean Good vs. Evil, they use "Evil" as "this thing I don't like". There's a reason why it's easier to say that burning someone alive for no reason is Evil, while punching someone for saying a mean thing is more debatable. Evil as a thing has its own definition that is not affected by winners and losers in a given conflict. Someone that wants to cause pain and misery for the sake of causing pain and misery is Evil in the context of alignment specifically because they're all about inflicting downsides on others with no perceivable benefits. But someone that wants to eliminate all members of a cult that wants to spread pain and misery is probably not doing it for Evil reasons. If you want to do something to benefit others, that's good. Good/Evil being used as Ally/Enemy has always been a manipulation tactic and always will be. Honest discussions about Good and Evil won't make those comparisons.
STEP 1: have the campaign start wtih the villain stealing from the PCs congratulations, you've created a lifelong bond of hate and the players will now burn the world down to get to your villain.
My primary villan in my Caimpaign destroys the organization that gave the players a home, work, and allies. With nothing left, the players have all the motive they need to fight, I think.
Optional STEP 2: If you want moral dilemmas and relatibility in your villains, have it be a teenager who steals/kills so they can feed the orphans and street urchins of their city.
@@mrmcawesome9746 A little cliched, make it a 20-something stealing enough to start her own small business so she can get out the slums and make a better life for herself
@@occultblasphemer5972 Not convenience for the guy who has to gather them. I would know. I AM THAT GUY. Oh wait, now I see your profile name. Makes sense.
"You're the villain is someone else's story" is a quote I can't remember who said it, but it make me think of my actions more. But it works in this kind of setting.
Hisham Mastura god I love Handsome Jack so much. He’s pretty much living proof that a villain does not have to be sympathetic in the slightest to be enjoyable. Case in point: “This one guy in New Haven, right? He comes at me with a spoon. A SPOON! And I’m dying laughing, right? So anyway, I take that spoon and I scoop out his stupid little eyeballs with it, and his kids are all like ‘WAAAAAAAHH!’ And- haha haha, I don’t know, maybe you had to be there.”
He gets real tiresome, ngl. In order for me to get really attached to a villain, they have to be believable, something that Borderlands is flat out incapable of being. Funny? Often, yes. But never believable. To the extent that it kinda doesn't even try to be.
@@CodfishJoe the thing is, as someone who's met some absolutely mentally broken people... he's not actually that far off. I mean obviously there are certain things that are over the top, but given his traumas and lust for power his excentricism is not entirely abnormal. he hides his anxiety and anger under a figurative mask of humor, it's why once you get to the second half of the game things go so suddenly much darker. where before he kept all of his anger in jokes and quips as he still saw himself as the king of the world, but the moment you struck a blow that was personal his entire persona collapsed and the last act of the game acts as a show of jack having one continuous mental breakdown. just because a character acts in an extremely abnormal or unreasonable manner, doesn't make them unbeleivable.
Megamind: "Oh, you're a villain all right. Just not a super one." Tighten: "Oh yeah? What’s the difference?" *Dramatic buildup* Megamind: "PRESENTATION!"
To quote the Joker, "All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy." "Madness, you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push!"
Those are cool quotes and all but as someone who has experienced the descent into madness a couple times before I’d say it’s more like falling out of a chair. In the moment you realize what’s going on it’s already to late, and you generally either end up frantically scrambling to try and avoid the outcome, potentially hurting yourself or others in the process, or you just resign yourself to your fate and hope you don’t end up looking like too much of an idiot.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 Thats what they mean with gravity, you know the thing thats pulling you down towards the ground as you lose your balance while on the chair. Sometimes a little push is all it takes to start falling.
Whyoming The part I take issue with is the notion that one push or one bad day is all it takes when in reality it’s a series of bad days, a series of pushes, all building on top of each other until the whole thing just collapses
Yes, but only if the players are the ones who realize this. If someone else is like "it was youuuuuu all along", that's no good. You wan tth moment where one player is like "wait a minute... Are we evil? We're the bad guys right now, aren't we?". It can't be preplanned and forced upon them. It has to derive from their choices.
Yes, and preferably more interesting than, 'Your humanitarianism is your weakness'. Better when villains notice double standards or genuine dodginess in the hero.
I think it's important to remember that "Good is a point of view" was said, specifically, by EMPEROR PALPATINE. Because that particular "What is truth?" approach tends to be the most handy, and most powerful, shield for the bits of actual blatant evil in the world.
@@RoyalFusilier Yes...the classic justification for evil deeds under "the greater good" or "the ends justify the means." One of the reasons our society rots in the present time is due to the degradation of truth.
Even then, the same line of logic applies - what drove the action in the first place? Under what circumstances does one find joy in ruining the joy of others? Is it a misplaced act of retribution, lashing out against the world for a slight none of the victims will know about?
@@kimarous Personal satisfaction in most cases, which I would argue qualifies as legitimate malevolence. There are people who inflict suffering on others for no better reason than getting a kick out of it.
@@adronius147 I do art...maybe not the most apealing or mainstream art..but if you do something that you love you need to reach perfection in it..and I love my art. -a griefer
@@toxicandsalty1696 Yes, very very extraordinary yadda yadda, but he is still the villain. He kills for his own selfish pleasure, without considering how the victims would feel about it
Wall of text time! Charismatic villians are almost always better than non ones. Handsome Jack, GlaDos, etc. Make them understandable. Ask why are they doing what are they doing? If you really know what makes your players (and their characters) tick and what pisses them off, use that. Abuse the fuck out of their pet peeves. One of my friends hate open-mouth chewing with a passion and guess what one of my minor villians do? One of my favorite antagonists wasnt even evil. It was just a friendly NPC that was bumbling and hurt the party with his incompetence. Having meaningful connections with the party really help. Have them buy from the same stores, spread some false rumors against the party. Even if it doesnt effect anything, people hate false rumors. If you want a "twist" villian, give foreshadowing. The worse you can do with twist villians is have it feel like it comes out of left field. Twist villians should always give you the thought of "Why didnt I see this coming? All this makes sense now! Thats why x happened!" Not "What? But why are you a villian? That makes no sense.." Remember with NPCs and Villians you dont have to follow PC rules. Have your Sorc BBEG have 30 known spells. The villian should feel more powerful than the heros. Just dont pull some bullshit deus ex machina.
Don't forget what made Jack an even better villain. His own family working against him and then we pull the trigger that kills them. A father who could do nothing as his daughter died + said daughter being the key to the civilization he imagined. Jack was good before the pre-sequel, but it added even more depth to his character.
@@scads2155 i honestly feel presequel hurt Jacks character. We already loved and sympathized with Jack before Bunker. Presequel just opened a ton of plotholes and inconsistences. Dont get me wrong, theres some good lines, it just feels watered down, i guess?
The thing with Jack particularly though is that he was never a good person, even before his "fall". He feared his own daughter and chose to confine her rather then deal with the turma of the girl who accidentally killed her own mother, he was always ambitious and wanted to rule, but he had to grovel to reach that point and the audio logs told a story that as a man he was constantly waiting for the day to sit in the cockpit. Jack is a delicious showing of a narcissistic arsehole who genuinely believes himself to be the hero of his own story and either willingfully/unwillingly ignorant of his own flaws, rejecting any perception that he might be wrong to substitute his own self indulgent reality. The mask represents his inability to confront his own hideous nature. That what makes him a great, straight up villain. You get pangs of sympathy from him but really he's a straight up narcissist who doesn't really care what happens to anyone else as long as he is the one enacting it. He will cry poveity and attempt to make you feel bad about any blunder, while woefully dismissing any malhandling of his own. Angel is the perfect example, he made her an existence a living hell where death was preferable, but in his mind he was providing her "everything" she would ever need in life, and only got personally slighted when the heroes killed her, because it was someone else enacting a change in his perfectly structured reality where he perceived himself as a great father. Probably couldn't even admit to himself that he was terrified of her, because he only entered the room after the vault hunters killed her yet he took a great amount of personal glee torturing Leith.
As the video title says, this explains how to design a good antagonist, and it explains it well, but sometimes a good Disney-style villain (if we're talking about D&D) can be great! Someone who's unabashedly evil, who knows they're doing bad things, and loves being cruel and eee-vil, is super memorable. It's why I could name a ton of Disney villains and what they're doing without issue, because of how much they enjoy being evil. While it isn't nuanced, and it certainly isn't fashionable in this day and age, it is both tons of fun as a DM and for the players to deal with. And then the players can feel good about defeating them! Ripping the rug out from underneath the players by having them realize they could've been the villains doesn't feel as satisfying. But keep in mind, this depends on the campaign. If you're running a gritty game, a Disney villain will be super out of place. I just think that people are much too averse to, and are given advice to not have, a villain who relishes their evil deeds.
You know, there really is something interesting about characters that identify as evil. They've seen what good is and decided that they want nothing of it, they'd rather be the bad guy than stick with what society decides is 'good'.
To an extent, this also applies to Count Bleck from Super Paper Mario. Tbh I may be remembering his motivations in a slightly skewed manner, but if memory serves, he knows full well that he isn’t doing what’s right. He just doesn’t care, because he doesn’t see why anything matters anyway.
Disney villains are the best plot points. They're not so much a character, but a natural disaster your PCs get to punch in the dick. Honestly, while complex villains are great, and even AMAZING when executed correctly; having a well done "disney villain" has much more of an emotional high. (See: ozai from TLAB)
Swiper the fox is actually one of the most scariest yet relatable anime villain. Like Loki he is constantly switching sides in most episodes he is the villain however there are episodes where he is not. For me at least I think Swiper the fox does not actually want to steal. If you say to a criminal "criminal stop stealing" he obviously does not listen but I think whenever Swiper heres the phrase he is wondering to himself whether stealing is the right thing to do so there are time where he steals and times where he does not. For me I think during his childhood he suffered racist insults because he is the only character that does not speak spanish and in spain foxes are more dark. He was forced to go to the woods and became a stealer when his parents died because we never see another fox in the episode. He is always wondering in what side he has to choose. If he knew the right decision to do he would have been a good guy.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Alexander Solzhenitsyn
The best way to make villains is to think of protagonists and heroes from other stories or even past games you've played and enjoyed. Most heroes have noble ideals and motives that are shadowed by tragic circumstances. You may have to twist a few things that made them heroic or take away friends that kept them moral, but it takes less than you'd think. Whenever the players throw me a curveball and I need a villain on the fly that will last a few sessions while I scramble to make up something new, I present them with a new memorable antagonist to take up their time. I prefer to build far more complex & original villains but when I needed to make something up on the fly, here's a few I ran with: - A dark and brooding vigilante who is actually a powerful businessman who takes out his hatred of criminals by using his vast wealth to fund a private revenge crusade to violently end them, if not killing then at least magically crippling them. (Batman - The party being framed for crimes they hadn't committed at the time) - An "archeologist" who violently murders all competitors in his way to steal relics and sacred items from the cultures they belong to so he can gain money and fame by giving them to museums (Indiana Jones - the party having gained permission from the locals to quest for the relic to save them from great evil) - A young baron who spent years in hiding after his uncle murdered his father who has been convinced by a former flame to stage a violent uprising to reclaim his title and lands. Once he achieves it, he will reinstate the old status quo, casting out people of different races and cultures that his uncle has intergrated into their lifestyle (Simba - the other races basically being the hyenas that in this instance were Orcs. Adding to the complication was the party had three Half-Orcs who'd found relative peace living in the barony for several months.) - A young woman and her companions who are blindly following the instructions of a hag, believeing that she will grant them what they most deisre - home, love, intelligence and bravery - and in the process causing mass mayhem and killing important figures that they have been tricked into thinking are evil. (Dorothy Gale)
Dude, I have so much respect for the fact that you used your own characters. As a screenwriter, I know how personal stories are and the fact that you used them for a study on evil gives you so many brownie points. Nicely done!
I have a few ideas for villains. Here’s one: Someone who was conceived, born, and empowered by several people willingly sacrificing themselves in the hopes that he would be the instrument of a dark God. However Fortune allowed him to be raised normally, and despite instinctively being aware of what the intended purpose for him was he does not wish for such things. So he grows up, becomes a loving husband, a loving father, a well respected member of his town, and a well liked Teacher. But tragedy stikes when a small group of adventurers went to a nearby mountain to slay a dragon. Not because it was a danger to the area around it, but because it was a gold dragon. And they felt that if a normal dragon had a huge pile of gold then a gold dragon would not only have even more, but they’re very body must be made of gold. So in their greed they attacked it only succeeding and angering it and wounding the party. Unfortunately they manage to escape causing the dragon to chase after them, and they decide to go to the nearby town for shelter bringing the dragon along with them. In the span of a single day everything the man held a dear was taken from him by rampaging dragon. And it was after the smoke has cleared and waiting through the bodies of all of his friends that he discovered the truth from the wounded and weak adventurers. With two of them passed out (cleric ranger) and the other twoto stupid or greedy take care (barbarian, rogue) about all the lives lost. Is the moment when he finally snaps. And it’s because of this that this particular villain has a deep hatred of adventurers.
@@yag0d it was. It isn't wrong to think that people can be driven to do bad things through hard times, but that doesn't make it an absolute. Also I'm pretty sure he was just quoting the comic.
technically everything can be "solved" if you stab enough people and lets not sugarcoat things, some people just are assholes, but it takes particular strength of character to be a hero and sometimes there are just two "good guys" who will never agree
Looking at comics, some of the best conflicts arose from two heroes, or two teams, that misunderstood the situation and each thought the other was a villain.
I mean, yeah, disney villains. But irl, there's probably a root cause to why they're such a dick. Maybe their rolemodel was an asshole? Maybe they've been abused? Maybe it's our best friend to excuse any heinous act without the need to explain it, "Mental illness"! (Even if doing this ultimately destroys the perception of anyone suffering from this, turning their plight into a boogeyman.)
That sounds like an absolutely amazing story with really interesting characters and character dynamics! Looking forward to maybe eventually seeing it one day.
"When we examined our logs, we found the difference between the Geth that rejected the Reapers and the Heretics was a single algorithm resulting to 3.00450121 instead of 3.00450122." - Geth Infiltration Platform Legion
Of course, but this seems more like a guide for realistic villains. People are never born bad in reality, so some sort of bad thing/tragedy will occur to make them the way they are, and that makes them sympathetic. Comically evil villains who are essentially born evil or have unrealistic reasons for becoming insanely evil aren’t that realistic and aren’t sympathetic.
@thediamonddream3233 uuuhhhhh. look man i'm sorry to say this, but there are more mental problems that you can be born with than adhd or autism. like psychopathy
I’ve been writing a book and I’ve fallen in love with the antagonist I made, I don’t really like making typical dark antagonist, but instead my antagonist is up beat and acts like a kid, but when it comes to a terrifying antagonist it’s when they are in complete control of the situation that makes the protagonist do desperate things to get out of it. This is exactly how I made my antagonist and I love it, it makes for some great discussions between the characters and fights, it also makes the protagonists have doubt about themselves
Fantastic summary of making a true villain. I always try to remember that the villain is the hero of their own story, as no one really thinks they're evil, but you've broken it down in far more detail, and given me so much more to think over.
I think you are missing a key archetype of villain, though: the sadist. They may be uncommon and not compelling when badly written, but we cannot forget about the villain who delights in the villainy. The person who is malicious and insidious because he enjoys the suffering of others or because he just wants to see what he can get away with.
Frieza is one of those sadistic villains, but he’s also villainous by the standard of the video. His motivator for genociding the saiyans was fear, he didn’t want to find out if the legend of the super saiyan was true or not, so he just blew their whole planet up. Thus, Vegeta hates Frieza for stealing his throne and home world from him and Goku wants to beat the shit out of Frieza because he’s evil, strong, and is a direct competitor for the namekian dragon balls. Everything following Frieza’s genocides are just him causing people pain for the sake of causing them pain, because he’s amused by their pain, which isn’t exactly good writing, but it’s entertaining to watch at least. He’s having such a good time that you can’t help but also have a good time.
@person person It seems like the blob's motivation, as per this video, would be fear. Fear of losing said calling, so it stays a villain if only to hold onto the purpose of has found. Or it could be pride, a great hubris in its power to destroy so easily. What LOOKS like a "no rhyme or reason" action is just lack of communication, since blobs dont generally talk.
Exactly. One of the villains in a story I’m working on has only the illusion of justification-revenge. The thing is, the revenge is for a hurt that wasn’t even exactly real. The villain slightly recognizes this, but continues on his murder rampage as he narrows in on his real target. He revels in being a villain. He enjoys the lack of restriction and expectations. He relishes the harm he causes and savors every bad deed. He thrives in his world of madness. His motivation, quite simply, is to do the most harm as possible and enjoy every second of it.
@person person Haha, kind of, but also no. He’s not seeking anything like glory or a better storyline. He just wants to kill his half-sister because their shared father dared to have a happy life without him even though he didn’t know Villain even existed. He’s a petty bastard who likes chaos, basically.
I got so invested in that story. You are an incredible writer and you inspire me to write stories of my own, stories that constantly float in my mind. You are incredible and I wish I could write a story that could hook someone in 5 minutes like you.
1:41 actually, darkness literally means the absence of light, darkness has been around before light and will be around when light disappears and the universe dies, light needs darkness to have a visible effect, darkness needs light to be gone in order to continue being dark.
I think it is likely that light won’t ever actually disappear from the universe, except perhaps for a slight bit of time if everything becomes a sort of homogenous, though at that point time wouldn’t really have a definition. The next Big Bang would likely be right around the corner.
I love that whenever I try to learn about how to make characters/campaigns/etc i end up watching long philosophical commentaries. D&D really strikes at the heart and soul of its DMs and players
In about 12 minutes you had me loving the story of these characters. If you wrote a book or dnd campaign around this concept, I'd definitely buy/read that. I came here looking for help with my dnd campaign without realizing that my character is already following in the footsteps of Allen and is set on revenge. I now know how to better map out my character so thank you.
Wheatly is my favorite twist villain. He came out of nowhere, but you slowly realize it would always happen, it's even hinted right at his turn. GLADOS becomes less aggressive upon being disconnected while wheatly becomes evil. Even at the end, we learn this isn't what he wanted, he just wanted to be accepted and not be pushed down. But alas, he's lost In space
I just watched the video in the middle of January , and as i sat down and looked in the sky , thinking about the ideas you gave , a falling star came by , cutting the whole night sky in half ... Than my dog had the biggest doodoo ever and I had do deal with that . ( This is not a joke , I'm 100% serious) P.s thanks for the vid ! Helped me a lot
There’s nothing wrong with making Pure evil villain they can be fun and often more complicated than a lot of hero villains the point of the story Isn’t to be clever it’s ultimately about being entertaining and complex villains and entertaining Tropes talks has a very good video on this
“I’m sorry little one” “I will watch the sun rise over a grateful universe” “They would simply cease to exist” Thanos! (Probably misquoted) Edit: this refers to 9:00
Y’know I once made a story about a hero vs villain setup with a twist. When a skilled diplomat joined the “villains” side, he finds that all the villain wanted was to become the mayor of the town in which the story was set. Of course, things weren’t that simple. Due to neglectful parents and, in his later years, being framed as the villain made his methods harmful to others without him knowing/understanding. But the diplomat gives him the wake up call he needed, so he changes his ways and people start liking him. However, the “hero” doesn’t understand this, as he has only ever seen the world as good vs evil, so when the “villain” changes his ways they still as usual attack him and his followers, which is now most of the town. This causes his reputation to go down the drain. He ends up getting arrested for assault, murder and attempted murder, as people don’t see him as a hero anymore, so they don’t justify his actions. Anyway, I’ve been typing this for about 15 minutes now so I’m gonna stop.
I havent watched the video yet but this is exciting. A large portion of my over arching plot is oriented around villains, all with very distinct goals and personalities. They mold the world as much as the players (In a way, theyre my DM NPC but without actually making it less fun for the players since its all in the background).
3:50 had me cracking up. "Hmmm.. How can I make my paragon character suffer so that he becomes a despicable shell of his former self?" In all seriousness, the current literature climate seems to love fallen heroes way too much for some reason. I miss my infallible paragons.
This gave me some new angles to consider, which opened up more questions to ask myself about my characters, which lead to a REALLY good breakthrough in something I`m writing, allowing me to twist one character from 'I understand why they went kinda bad' to 'This is seriously tragic and I totally understand them'. Thank you so much for this! :)
Genuinely one of the best and most informative videos I've seen on TH-cam. I love Villains and especially writing them. This has truly helped greatly and given me a lot of insight into how to do it effectively, thank you!
This only really covers the tragic villain trope, which is a good one for sure but not the only one. The joker is a good example of a villain that isn't tragic. There are just genuinely bad people both in the real world and in fiction; sometimes a person is just made incompatible with all norms of morality an decency that can be assosciated with good. Other examples could include psychopaths; people born without the capacity to do true good, essentially, and sadists; people for whom the act of doing evil is both the method and the whole point of what they do.
Trutru. In DnD terms I've always enjoyed the thought of a high functioning psychopath vampire, hiding itself in a city as a higher-up and using the city in the subtlest ways possible. Not like strahd, oh no, strahd was like the mofockin slenderman but with feels. This boi would actively avoid conflict, and he would be a genuinely bad person who submitted to the vision that he is what he is: a predator.
Yes there is absolute evil. Some actions can only come from evil imagination and mind completely warped beyond any logical understanding. Actually the Joker is a tragic villain. His mother said he didn't smile enough so she cut the side of his lip. Or was that just the movie version? Thank you for pointing out how this works for tragic villains. My antagonist is the way she because she is a bitch. There is an understanding though behind her behavior. Where she lives toxic behavior is acceptable. Maybe she is kind of tragic in her own way.
This really reminds me of one of the main villains from my favorite book series. From his point of view, he just woke up after almost 2000 years and comes to help his people back to glory and fight against the people who put them into so much pain. In reality, he was the thing that right before he disappeared for 2000 years, scared his people into hiding and pain with his powers. The people who put them into that pain? That was a simple war that went away soon after he left. The people were actually starting to get along again. I love when you look at the villains POV and see a hero’s story.
Thank you soo much for this video, it's so damn great. Also I feel like the arcane writers saw your video and that's why their characters are so awesome
I'm actually in the process of making my first D&D campaign,and this video really reaffirmed that I am making the right steps in making my villain. Originally the villain was a PC idea I had that was going to become a villain, so that's more or less where he starts, as an adventurer much like those that will be the party members. He began life as young noble but tragedy struck when he lost his home to an invading force, his family murdered he barely got away through a secret passage. He was smart, but not very strong and even less charismatic. He had goals of taking his home back one day but it was hard getting people to join his cause. Upon fighting a necromancer cult he realizes a solution, an undead army. A bit dark but not totally evil. His second tragedy comes now. His party, his only friends people he saw as his new family found the leader behind the cult a beholder who had come into contact with the eye of Vecna. The party dies fighting this monster and he is left alone. The eye speaks to him tell him that it can help him accomplish his goals and will make sure he is never alone again. He uses the eye, from here the corruption begins. The eye makes his paranoid and untrusting. He begins searching for more artifacts to strengthen himself with. The party will start the game with an undead horde besieging a city. This is but 1 of many such attacks, all diversions to keep the real assault on the villain's Homeland unoticed.
Well maybe you could introduce them before your players are strong enough to kill them, or before they are revealed to be opposed to the players. Just an idea.
You could make them undying, so no matter how hard the player hurt them, they wont truly die until X happens. Maybe the villain is a lich, and the players have to gain access to its personal pocket dimension in order to destroy its phylactery. Or maybe the villain has access to clones, so when one dies, the next arrives stronger and smarter than the last, having learned the party's tactics and prepared to counter their ever move. Hell, just get rid of the villain's HP entirely, let the players deal with something that just can't die, such as a force of nature like an earthquake or meteor storm.
Bro I'd watch your screen play on repeat, sound like theres a lot of intricate details and if the quality of your videos is anything to go off I'd say we'd all be in for a treat
Because of bias, I wanna see what happens after Allan achieves his goal. A man who lost everything, getting what he asked for... what happens after the dagger has been stained? What are his thoughts immediately after the euphoria of killing the man who destroyed you? What happens in the minutes after the deed was done? Honestly, the most cliche option is for him to end it there as well.
@Josh_Le_Gamer Allan kills Winston just before Winston can fund the last stage of the project. Winston dies before he can help the world achieve true greatness, his ultimate fear. James’s project is now underfunded at just the wrong time and the stress at this causes James to finally break, showing his weakness to the public and proving all who doubted him right. Allan has now gotten his revenge, and his life marches on without purpose or meaning. My dark ending to all of this.
THANK YOU! i was having a lot of trouble writing a good antagonist for my story that wasn't just "baad, because... Evil?" for the sake of moving the story along. I loved how you started by making them the hero since everyone is the hero of their own story anyway and if they themselves can't justify their reasons how will a reader ever do? And an antagonist a reader can not at least understand, is a badly written character. The way you developed them by connecting them to one another helped a lot since I couldn't figure out a reason to justify their actions while writing them desperately but once i connected them it all just came naturally... Great video, much better than the lists of things to do or avoid. You gave an example through a story which is so much easier to grasp especially for people who love reading and writing stories!!
I kinda suck at villain backstories, but Imma try to do one. So like he had fire and illusion powers but he couldnt control his illusion powers. He was commiting homocide after homocide, crime after crime. He had a friend who WAS a superhero, and although he was jealous of him, he loved him. After he witnessed his friend die brutally, by getting tortured in gruesome ways, crucified, getting burned and eaten alive, he wanted to make it all stop. And so this trauma triggered his illusion powers, making HIM see in illusions. In his own POV he thought he was saving people, stopping robberies, and killing criminals. He thought he was being a hero, while he was the thing he swore to destroy. After finding out, he tried to commit suicide knowing what he did, but then he realized that he could reverse this, possibly, using a time machine. It took him a few decades to even build the machine. After he did, he traveled back in time to save his friend, and destroy the person who killed him by doing the same thing to him, torturing him brutally to death. But what he didnt realize was that his illusion powers triggered again, and the person that he was torturing to death, the person that he did unspoken horrible things to, was actually his friend who he was trying to save.
here's the thing, evil IS an absolute in dnd. there's a plane made entirely out of it. there are gods who are built out of nothing but the universal aspect of evil. asmodeus doesn't have the ability to see himself as the hero. asmodeus is undeniably evil and doesn't have the agency of mortals to be able to change himself or how he behaves. evil is a real tangible concept in dnd that things are literally made out of. that said, all of this is why I find generic demon lords to be boring antagonists. because they never had the choice, they never had an option, they're just playing out the role given to them.
This is all a very good point, but even some DnD villains have compelling, human(ish) stories. See Strahd. That being said, I like demon lords simply because of how metal they are lol. Throw some HOTS music in the background and have a jolly good scrap! Lol
That sounds like a setup for a good villain. A being who is born of evil but realizes that it was the universe itself that made him/her evil and their villainous acts are all in the name of rewriting the natural order cause they don't bow down to anyone, not even abstract concepts.
@@kylestanley7843 oh, I'm aware it's entirely possible to have compelling stories of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. I'm just saying...well, he starts off with "I don't believe evil is an alignment or a concept" and that works in real life, but not in the cosmology of dnd
![On Writing: Villains [ Zuko l Joker l Watchmen l Vikings l Game of Thrones l Javert ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/16eJZmW_cGE/mqdefault.jpg)
Spiderman : "But with tech like that, you could cure cancer !"
Dinoguy : "But I do not want to cure cancer, I want to turn people into dinosaurs !"
I forgot that had happened. Thank you for reminding me.
Hrmph. Stegron the Motherfucking Dinosaur Man is not "Dinoguy."
@Reece Hunerdosse *Saurion
Reece Hunerdosse Donkey!
His name is Sauron
"If no one appreciates my work, and they all live to mock me, why should I even consider them?"
-every DM ever.
Rocks fall, everyone dies
@@domesticcat1725 And that was when the GM decided not to share any snacks and turned off their wi-fi router. Then there were rot grubs, vargouille, shadows, and intellect devourers. Lots of them. And, finally, the true mastermind revealed: one lucky halfling bard who merrily ruins it for everyone. ...Then the rocks fall, and everyone dies.
Huh. I've been a GM for years and I've never felt unappreciated.
👀
@@tarvoc746 than you are lucky with your players
When I heard at the end “anyone can turn into a villain” my brain went “they just need one bad day”
which is a quote disproven by the comic it came from
I guess you could be right, but that would essentially be the absolutely minimum required and it would have to be a quite catastrophic day.
Watch the movie Falling Down with Michael Douglass
@@lordyellowman Like.. losing your job, losing your wife, being press-ganged into working for a... well, gang. Then having some demon show up and throw you into a vat of acid, permanently scarring your entire body for life. When all you wanted to do is be a comedian?
@@Tijnob which comic is it in?
"Sorry that turned into a story"
DUDE THAT WAS A HELLA COOL STORY!
@@notthemonad4305 Or a graphic novel.
@@kenthefele113 or a comic book
Wakfu made a villain that I fell in love with: A man fueled by his regret of having ignored his family due to his research, who now scours the world killing innocents and gathering their 'essence' to power a time machine so he can go back in time to when his family was alive, his excuse for that being "once I go back in time, all the people I have killed will be alive again." Brilliant design in my opinion.
Oh, you mean Knox.
Nox is like the golden standard for villains.
That sounds like kingpin's story from "into the spider-verse."
@@logandunlap9156 Disagree, more like "anti-hero" if we were to scale his morality. It's not totally evil, or overly cruel compared to others, but it could be seen as messed up. But he is definitely not a villan.
He wins mind you, but only goes back like 10 second
What is evil?
Well, it's a point of view.
How many "bad guys" think they're the protagonist?
*looking at murderhobos*
Evil is hostile according to the description in 5E' GM guide.
There's no alignment requirement for protagonists. Protagonists are the focus of the story, and antagonists are the ones who oppose them.
"Evil" is only a matter of perspective *if* the word is used the way some people use "monster": As a way to control behavior and alienate those who they do not like. There are people that believe certain lifestyles are "Evil", but they aren't actually using the term the way it's meant to be used. They don't mean Good vs. Evil, they use "Evil" as "this thing I don't like". There's a reason why it's easier to say that burning someone alive for no reason is Evil, while punching someone for saying a mean thing is more debatable.
Evil as a thing has its own definition that is not affected by winners and losers in a given conflict. Someone that wants to cause pain and misery for the sake of causing pain and misery is Evil in the context of alignment specifically because they're all about inflicting downsides on others with no perceivable benefits. But someone that wants to eliminate all members of a cult that wants to spread pain and misery is probably not doing it for Evil reasons. If you want to do something to benefit others, that's good.
Good/Evil being used as Ally/Enemy has always been a manipulation tactic and always will be. Honest discussions about Good and Evil won't make those comparisons.
Heroes are triumphant while villains usually lose." History is written by the victors"
Meh. When my players want to play the bad guys, I allow them to play bad guys.
Scripted Valor
ITS NOT OUR FAULT OK
We just like going around murdering everything insight. Ok we might have a small problem.....
STEP 1: have the campaign start wtih the villain stealing from the PCs
congratulations, you've created a lifelong bond of hate and the players will now burn the world down to get to your villain.
Honestly? Fuckin accurate.
Make them steal the left boot. Gets them everytime...
My primary villan in my Caimpaign destroys the organization that gave the players a home, work, and allies. With nothing left, the players have all the motive they need to fight, I think.
Optional STEP 2: If you want moral dilemmas and relatibility in your villains, have it be a teenager who steals/kills so they can feed the orphans and street urchins of their city.
@@mrmcawesome9746 A little cliched, make it a 20-something stealing enough to start her own small business so she can get out the slums and make a better life for herself
Evil at its core, is defined as leaving your shopping cart in the parking lot because you’re too lazy to put it back at the designated area.
It's convenience for others. There is a shopping cart sitting there waiting for them as soon as they get out of the car.
@@occultblasphemer5972 Not convenience for the guy who has to gather them. I would know. I AM THAT GUY. Oh wait, now I see your profile name. Makes sense.
I wish I could like your comment multiple times
This is too damn accurate😑.
Occult Blasphemer most people only get them from the store
"You're the villain is someone else's story" is a quote I can't remember who said it, but it make me think of my actions more.
But it works in this kind of setting.
I think handsome jack said something like that
Possibly GRRM if i am correct.
"Everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story"
-Handsome Jack(One of if not the best videogame villain)
Hisham Mastura god I love Handsome Jack so much.
He’s pretty much living proof that a villain does not have to be sympathetic in the slightest to be enjoyable.
Case in point: “This one guy in New Haven, right? He comes at me with a spoon. A SPOON! And I’m dying laughing, right? So anyway, I take that spoon and I scoop out his stupid little eyeballs with it, and his kids are all like ‘WAAAAAAAHH!’ And- haha haha, I don’t know, maybe you had to be there.”
I mean, he's alright.
He gets real tiresome, ngl. In order for me to get really attached to a villain, they have to be believable, something that Borderlands is flat out incapable of being. Funny? Often, yes. But never believable. To the extent that it kinda doesn't even try to be.
@@CodfishJoe the thing is, as someone who's met some absolutely mentally broken people... he's not actually that far off. I mean obviously there are certain things that are over the top, but given his traumas and lust for power his excentricism is not entirely abnormal. he hides his anxiety and anger under a figurative mask of humor, it's why once you get to the second half of the game things go so suddenly much darker. where before he kept all of his anger in jokes and quips as he still saw himself as the king of the world, but the moment you struck a blow that was personal his entire persona collapsed and the last act of the game acts as a show of jack having one continuous mental breakdown. just because a character acts in an extremely abnormal or unreasonable manner, doesn't make them unbeleivable.
I never got the hero of my story thing.
What if the real villains were the friends we made along the way?
never trust the rogue
Sounds like the average dnd party
Keep your friends close and your villains closer.
Speedwagon would never say that stop it.
That happened in dnd once
Everytime you said "from my point of view," my mind auto-completed the sentence with "the jedi are evil!"
gui bin Jedi are the cause of suffering. Go ask G0-T0
"My point of view from, evil the Sith are."
"Only the Jedi deal in absolutes"
Best quotes of the prequel battle between Anakin and Darth Perior (Yoda)
Hello there
@@theapexsurvivor9538 Except he contradicts himself. By saying "ONLY the Sith deal in ABSOLUTES." He just made an absolute statement-as a JEDI!
Yes
"I initially based this character on myself" "He becomes an inhuman monster" now I see why you make traps that TKO in 20 seconds
“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain....”
In Dragon Ball, it's the opposite.
Or live long enough to see your parents get shot in a dark alley after leaving a theatre
That's why tony died. He was basically so close to being a villain, he's very Antisocial.
@@offgang2805 Nah, we all know Disney offed him because he was getting bored of the role
@@offgang2805 wasn't tony already the villain of age of ultron and civil war?
Megamind: "Oh, you're a villain all right. Just not a super one."
Tighten: "Oh yeah? What’s the difference?"
*Dramatic buildup*
Megamind: "PRESENTATION!"
Tighten lmao
@@Xelfist that's how he spells it, so...
@@Xelfistin the movie Titan was already taken
@@uncroppedsoop thats funny as hell never caught that one.
Runesmith: "Fear of the unknown"
My Lovecraft nerd senses: *_I SENSE A DISTURBANCE IN THE FORCE_*
*wet slithering and dripping noises come from outside the nearest window*
*Mysterious colors, unlike any seen on Earth!*
@@gatekeepingwarlock9604 *_NON EUCLIDIAN GEOMETRY!!!_*
@@thisrandomdude2880 All the overly sarcastic jokes.
IMMIGRANTS!.....yes he really did have a fear of them
To quote the Joker,
"All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy."
"Madness, you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push!"
Those are cool quotes and all but as someone who has experienced the descent into madness a couple times before I’d say it’s more like falling out of a chair. In the moment you realize what’s going on it’s already to late, and you generally either end up frantically scrambling to try and avoid the outcome, potentially hurting yourself or others in the process, or you just resign yourself to your fate and hope you don’t end up looking like too much of an idiot.
@@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527 Thats what they mean with gravity, you know the thing thats pulling you down towards the ground as you lose your balance while on the chair. Sometimes a little push is all it takes to start falling.
Whyoming The part I take issue with is the notion that one push or one bad day is all it takes when in reality it’s a series of bad days, a series of pushes, all building on top of each other until the whole thing just collapses
Except the Jokers philosophy is wrong in the batman comics. He repeatedly fails in his attempts to drive people like Batman to be like him.
Stormthorn67 Well, as a point of order, it’s not like Batman is a traditionally sane character.
Best antagonist twist is the one where it was the players, all along.
Bad guy =/= antagonist. Antagonists oppose the protagonists, and the players are always protagonists, no matter their alignment.
Like if they help the enemy without knowing or release some sort of plague or villain
something like that, yeah
Yes, but only if the players are the ones who realize this. If someone else is like "it was youuuuuu all along", that's no good. You wan tth moment where one player is like "wait a minute... Are we evil? We're the bad guys right now, aren't we?". It can't be preplanned and forced upon them. It has to derive from their choices.
The post was meant to be a joke.
The best antagonist will point out the protagonist’s flaws.
Yes, and preferably more interesting than, 'Your humanitarianism is your weakness'. Better when villains notice double standards or genuine dodginess in the hero.
@@AlmostEthicalreminds me of Dettlaff from Witcher 3: blood and wine. When he says to Geralt: “and you, how many innocents have you cut down?”
Colonel Kurtz to Willard :
"You're an errand boy, send by the grocery clerks...to collect a bill"
“Any good man can be vengeful, if he loses his future.”
Holy crap man
Describes the big bad for my book PERFECTLY
''Good is a point of view, Anakin...'' *Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?*
I was looking for this comment!
I think it's important to remember that "Good is a point of view" was said, specifically, by EMPEROR PALPATINE. Because that particular "What is truth?" approach tends to be the most handy, and most powerful, shield for the bits of actual blatant evil in the world.
@@RoyalFusilier Yes...the classic justification for evil deeds under "the greater good" or "the ends justify the means." One of the reasons our society rots in the present time is due to the degradation of truth.
"there is no such thing as an evil person"
griefers
Genuine evil.
Team avolition
Even then, the same line of logic applies - what drove the action in the first place? Under what circumstances does one find joy in ruining the joy of others? Is it a misplaced act of retribution, lashing out against the world for a slight none of the victims will know about?
@@kimarous Personal satisfaction in most cases, which I would argue qualifies as legitimate malevolence. There are people who inflict suffering on others for no better reason than getting a kick out of it.
@@adronius147
I do art...maybe not the most apealing or mainstream art..but if you do something that you love you need to reach perfection in it..and I love my art.
-a griefer
Society sometimes creates it's own monsters and unsurprisingly is often surprised when one appears
I'd say it almost always creates its own villains
11:20
Runesmith: All it takes
Me: Is one bad day!
Runesmith: Is a little tribulation
Me: Oh...
Me: is a little push.
Why is Jhin in the thumbnail? He is just a starving artist damnit.
He's a serial killer
@@VainGuardian The way he kills is his art!
@@aSleepyPenguin still a villain
@@buttonsmasher1072 You poor uncultured peasant. Jhin is a artist beyond his time. He puts on a killer performance that's to die for.
@@toxicandsalty1696 Yes, very very extraordinary yadda yadda, but he is still the villain.
He kills for his own selfish pleasure, without considering how the victims would feel about it
Ah yes, I remember my favourite brightly lit campaign of Strahd.
Duriiam So happy and fun and not at all sad and disturbing!
Andie Valdez yes, DMing that made me see the good in everything :)))
Mine wasnt even scary or dark.
Because the people I played with fucked everything up. Barely got the story
Duriiam If you really want to see the good in the world, play Out of the Abyss. Super NOT grimdark
😂 I died
Wall of text time!
Charismatic villians are almost always better than non ones. Handsome Jack, GlaDos, etc. Make them understandable. Ask why are they doing what are they doing?
If you really know what makes your players (and their characters) tick and what pisses them off, use that. Abuse the fuck out of their pet peeves. One of my friends hate open-mouth chewing with a passion and guess what one of my minor villians do?
One of my favorite antagonists wasnt even evil. It was just a friendly NPC that was bumbling and hurt the party with his incompetence.
Having meaningful connections with the party really help. Have them buy from the same stores, spread some false rumors against the party. Even if it doesnt effect anything, people hate false rumors.
If you want a "twist" villian, give foreshadowing. The worse you can do with twist villians is have it feel like it comes out of left field. Twist villians should always give you the thought of "Why didnt I see this coming? All this makes sense now! Thats why x happened!" Not "What? But why are you a villian? That makes no sense.."
Remember with NPCs and Villians you dont have to follow PC rules. Have your Sorc BBEG have 30 known spells. The villian should feel more powerful than the heros. Just dont pull some bullshit deus ex machina.
Don't forget what made Jack an even better villain. His own family working against him and then we pull the trigger that kills them. A father who could do nothing as his daughter died + said daughter being the key to the civilization he imagined. Jack was good before the pre-sequel, but it added even more depth to his character.
@@scads2155 i honestly feel presequel hurt Jacks character. We already loved and sympathized with Jack before Bunker. Presequel just opened a ton of plotholes and inconsistences. Dont get me wrong, theres some good lines, it just feels watered down, i guess?
The thing with Jack particularly though is that he was never a good person, even before his "fall". He feared his own daughter and chose to confine her rather then deal with the turma of the girl who accidentally killed her own mother, he was always ambitious and wanted to rule, but he had to grovel to reach that point and the audio logs told a story that as a man he was constantly waiting for the day to sit in the cockpit. Jack is a delicious showing of a narcissistic arsehole who genuinely believes himself to be the hero of his own story and either willingfully/unwillingly ignorant of his own flaws, rejecting any perception that he might be wrong to substitute his own self indulgent reality. The mask represents his inability to confront his own hideous nature.
That what makes him a great, straight up villain. You get pangs of sympathy from him but really he's a straight up narcissist who doesn't really care what happens to anyone else as long as he is the one enacting it. He will cry poveity and attempt to make you feel bad about any blunder, while woefully dismissing any malhandling of his own. Angel is the perfect example, he made her an existence a living hell where death was preferable, but in his mind he was providing her "everything" she would ever need in life, and only got personally slighted when the heroes killed her, because it was someone else enacting a change in his perfectly structured reality where he perceived himself as a great father. Probably couldn't even admit to himself that he was terrified of her, because he only entered the room after the vault hunters killed her yet he took a great amount of personal glee torturing Leith.
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 what series are y'all referring to? Sounds juicy.
@@kylestanley7843 Borderlands, a videogame.
There are no heroes. There are no villains. There is only what I want and how I’ll get it
-Magneeto
This guy: "No one is truly evil."
The Lich from Adventure Time: "I'm gonna stop you right there."
He is the inevitable
Majin Buu:
*Oh hello there!*
Only cartoonishly badly written villains are evil.
@@SecularMentat debatable.
@@SecularMentat
I don’t know man, professor venomous is a pretty good villain
"You either die as a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent (The Dark Knight)
This video came out in the perfect moment, cause I really need to start writing a villain for my first campaign. Thank you Runesmith.
Doc Oc from Marvels Spiderman is a brilliant example of Tribulation creating a villain
Especially the PS4 game!
As the video title says, this explains how to design a good antagonist, and it explains it well, but sometimes a good Disney-style villain (if we're talking about D&D) can be great!
Someone who's unabashedly evil, who knows they're doing bad things, and loves being cruel and eee-vil, is super memorable. It's why I could name a ton of Disney villains and what they're doing without issue, because of how much they enjoy being evil. While it isn't nuanced, and it certainly isn't fashionable in this day and age, it is both tons of fun as a DM and for the players to deal with. And then the players can feel good about defeating them! Ripping the rug out from underneath the players by having them realize they could've been the villains doesn't feel as satisfying. But keep in mind, this depends on the campaign. If you're running a gritty game, a Disney villain will be super out of place. I just think that people are much too averse to, and are given advice to not have, a villain who relishes their evil deeds.
You know, there really is something interesting about characters that identify as evil. They've seen what good is and decided that they want nothing of it, they'd rather be the bad guy than stick with what society decides is 'good'.
To an extent, this also applies to Count Bleck from Super Paper Mario.
Tbh I may be remembering his motivations in a slightly skewed manner, but if memory serves, he knows full well that he isn’t doing what’s right. He just doesn’t care, because he doesn’t see why anything matters anyway.
Disney villains are the best plot points. They're not so much a character, but a natural disaster your PCs get to punch in the dick. Honestly, while complex villains are great, and even AMAZING when executed correctly; having a well done "disney villain" has much more of an emotional high. (See: ozai from TLAB)
You mean a Pure Evil villain? I know Red did a dissection of those on Trope Talks.
@@mr.cup6yearsago211 You just explained why evil for evils sake can make a good villain.
"All it takes is a little tribulation"
A fancy word of saying "All it takes is a little push"
Swiper the fox is actually one of the most scariest yet relatable anime villain. Like Loki he is constantly switching sides in most episodes he is the villain however there are episodes where he is not. For me at least I think Swiper the fox does not actually want to steal. If you say to a criminal "criminal stop stealing" he obviously does not listen but I think whenever Swiper heres the phrase he is wondering to himself whether stealing is the right thing to do so there are time where he steals and times where he does not. For me I think during his childhood he suffered racist insults because he is the only character that does not speak spanish and in spain foxes are more dark. He was forced to go to the woods and became a stealer when his parents died because we never see another fox in the episode.
He is always wondering in what side he has to choose. If he knew the right decision to do he would have been a good guy.
#SwiperTheFoxDidNothingWrong
@@Sera-F1nn Explanations are not excuses.
Damn. Right in the feels
Bruh
Why is this actually a good backstory..?
Lol
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
The best way to make villains is to think of protagonists and heroes from other stories or even past games you've played and enjoyed. Most heroes have noble ideals and motives that are shadowed by tragic circumstances. You may have to twist a few things that made them heroic or take away friends that kept them moral, but it takes less than you'd think. Whenever the players throw me a curveball and I need a villain on the fly that will last a few sessions while I scramble to make up something new, I present them with a new memorable antagonist to take up their time. I prefer to build far more complex & original villains but when I needed to make something up on the fly, here's a few I ran with:
- A dark and brooding vigilante who is actually a powerful businessman who takes out his hatred of criminals by using his vast wealth to fund a private revenge crusade to violently end them, if not killing then at least magically crippling them. (Batman - The party being framed for crimes they hadn't committed at the time)
- An "archeologist" who violently murders all competitors in his way to steal relics and sacred items from the cultures they belong to so he can gain money and fame by giving them to museums (Indiana Jones - the party having gained permission from the locals to quest for the relic to save them from great evil)
- A young baron who spent years in hiding after his uncle murdered his father who has been convinced by a former flame to stage a violent uprising to reclaim his title and lands. Once he achieves it, he will reinstate the old status quo, casting out people of different races and cultures that his uncle has intergrated into their lifestyle (Simba - the other races basically being the hyenas that in this instance were Orcs. Adding to the complication was the party had three Half-Orcs who'd found relative peace living in the barony for several months.)
- A young woman and her companions who are blindly following the instructions of a hag, believeing that she will grant them what they most deisre - home, love, intelligence and bravery - and in the process causing mass mayhem and killing important figures that they have been tricked into thinking are evil. (Dorothy Gale)
This is a very underrated comment
Love this approach. Just brilliant!
Dude, I have so much respect for the fact that you used your own characters. As a screenwriter, I know how personal stories are and the fact that you used them for a study on evil gives you so many brownie points. Nicely done!
I have a few ideas for villains. Here’s one:
Someone who was conceived, born, and empowered by several people willingly sacrificing themselves in the hopes that he would be the instrument of a dark God.
However Fortune allowed him to be raised normally, and despite instinctively being aware of what the intended purpose for him was he does not wish for such things.
So he grows up, becomes a loving husband, a loving father, a well respected member of his town, and a well liked Teacher.
But tragedy stikes when a small group of adventurers went to a nearby mountain to slay a dragon. Not because it was a danger to the area around it, but because it was a gold dragon. And they felt that if a normal dragon had a huge pile of gold then a gold dragon would not only have even more, but they’re very body must be made of gold.
So in their greed they attacked it only succeeding and angering it and wounding the party. Unfortunately they manage to escape causing the dragon to chase after them, and they decide to go to the nearby town for shelter bringing the dragon along with them. In the span of a single day everything the man held a dear was taken from him by rampaging dragon. And it was after the smoke has cleared and waiting through the bodies of all of his friends that he discovered the truth from the wounded and weak adventurers. With two of them passed out (cleric ranger) and the other twoto stupid or greedy take care (barbarian, rogue) about all the lives lost.
Is the moment when he finally snaps.
And it’s because of this that this particular villain has a deep hatred of adventurers.
Plus they messed with the dragon. All hail the reptilians!
Because madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little... push!
All it takes is one bad day
Wii arr aliving in a socity
I thought that the point of The Dark Knight was to prove that the Joker is wrong
@@yag0d it was. It isn't wrong to think that people can be driven to do bad things through hard times, but that doesn't make it an absolute. Also I'm pretty sure he was just quoting the comic.
@@Blub31 yea just quoting a memorable line that fit with the video.
I was just writing the BBEG of my campaigns so this came like sent from the Heavens. Thanks Runesmith!
Katl Numbra similar thing happened last video when I was writing about my story that greatly involves giants
Same man. My players are about a quarter through and that's when I'm introducing the villain. This was a god's send
technically everything can be "solved" if you stab enough people
and lets not sugarcoat things, some people just are assholes, but it takes particular strength of character to be a hero
and sometimes there are just two "good guys" who will never agree
Looking at comics, some of the best conflicts arose from two heroes, or two teams, that misunderstood the situation and each thought the other was a villain.
Agreed there IS such a thing as bad, piece of shit people.
I mean, yeah, disney villains. But irl, there's probably a root cause to why they're such a dick. Maybe their rolemodel was an asshole? Maybe they've been abused? Maybe it's our best friend to excuse any heinous act without the need to explain it, "Mental illness"! (Even if doing this ultimately destroys the perception of anyone suffering from this, turning their plight into a boogeyman.)
Person stabbing people stab them
That sounds like an absolutely amazing story with really interesting characters and character dynamics! Looking forward to maybe eventually seeing it one day.
“The only truth I’ve found is that the world is a giant tinderbox: all it takes is someone to light the match.”
- Cpt. Price
"When we examined our logs, we found the difference between the Geth that rejected the Reapers and the Heretics was a single algorithm resulting to 3.00450121 instead of 3.00450122."
- Geth Infiltration Platform Legion
@Noblesse Obligee ME 2 just before his loyalty mission
"Your only one bad day away from becoming someone like me" -punisher to daredevil... at least, i think thats the correct quote.
You can have a good villain without them being sympathetic
Of course, but this seems more like a guide for realistic villains.
People are never born bad in reality, so some sort of bad thing/tragedy will occur to make them the way they are, and that makes them sympathetic. Comically evil villains who are essentially born evil or have unrealistic reasons for becoming insanely evil aren’t that realistic and aren’t sympathetic.
@@thediamonddream3233 some are definitely much more inclined to do evil from birth than others.
@thediamonddream3233 uuuhhhhh.
look man i'm sorry to say this, but there are more mental problems that you can be born with than adhd or autism. like psychopathy
I’ve been writing a book and I’ve fallen in love with the antagonist I made, I don’t really like making typical dark antagonist, but instead my antagonist is up beat and acts like a kid, but when it comes to a terrifying antagonist it’s when they are in complete control of the situation that makes the protagonist do desperate things to get out of it.
This is exactly how I made my antagonist and I love it, it makes for some great discussions between the characters and fights, it also makes the protagonists have doubt about themselves
What’s his ideology’ or goal
Fantastic summary of making a true villain. I always try to remember that the villain is the hero of their own story, as no one really thinks they're evil, but you've broken it down in far more detail, and given me so much more to think over.
I'm literally starting my first campaign this Sunday, so glad this video just came out. I've been binging your videos recently too!
Hey nice meta (red vs blue) icon
Hey, my first DnD campaign is also this sunday, though I'm a player rather than a dm.
@@akuma9452 Thanks! That may be the first time anyone's recognized it
Welp, this just makes me more confident in my writing ability... Thanks Runesmith!
I think you are missing a key archetype of villain, though: the sadist. They may be uncommon and not compelling when badly written, but we cannot forget about the villain who delights in the villainy. The person who is malicious and insidious because he enjoys the suffering of others or because he just wants to see what he can get away with.
Like that one villain from that one adault swim show, I forgot his name but he i color red and has a skull for a head
Frieza is one of those sadistic villains, but he’s also villainous by the standard of the video. His motivator for genociding the saiyans was fear, he didn’t want to find out if the legend of the super saiyan was true or not, so he just blew their whole planet up. Thus, Vegeta hates Frieza for stealing his throne and home world from him and Goku wants to beat the shit out of Frieza because he’s evil, strong, and is a direct competitor for the namekian dragon balls. Everything following Frieza’s genocides are just him causing people pain for the sake of causing them pain, because he’s amused by their pain, which isn’t exactly good writing, but it’s entertaining to watch at least. He’s having such a good time that you can’t help but also have a good time.
@person person It seems like the blob's motivation, as per this video, would be fear. Fear of losing said calling, so it stays a villain if only to hold onto the purpose of has found.
Or it could be pride, a great hubris in its power to destroy so easily. What LOOKS like a "no rhyme or reason" action is just lack of communication, since blobs dont generally talk.
Exactly.
One of the villains in a story I’m working on has only the illusion of justification-revenge. The thing is, the revenge is for a hurt that wasn’t even exactly real. The villain slightly recognizes this, but continues on his murder rampage as he narrows in on his real target.
He revels in being a villain. He enjoys the lack of restriction and expectations. He relishes the harm he causes and savors every bad deed. He thrives in his world of madness.
His motivation, quite simply, is to do the most harm as possible and enjoy every second of it.
@person person Haha, kind of, but also no.
He’s not seeking anything like glory or a better storyline. He just wants to kill his half-sister because their shared father dared to have a happy life without him even though he didn’t know Villain even existed.
He’s a petty bastard who likes chaos, basically.
I got so invested in that story. You are an incredible writer and you inspire me to write stories of my own, stories that constantly float in my mind. You are incredible and I wish I could write a story that could hook someone in 5 minutes like you.
You're missing the most important type of villain motivation: "Boy I sure love blowing stuff up :D"
wow, you really outdid yourself this vid, love the jump youre making from dnd to writing in general
Thank you Runesmith, very cool!
Best video yet, incredible job, Runesmith! Thanks for all your help
1:41 actually, darkness literally means the absence of light, darkness has been around before light and will be around when light disappears and the universe dies, light needs darkness to have a visible effect, darkness needs light to be gone in order to continue being dark.
I think it is likely that light won’t ever actually disappear from the universe, except perhaps for a slight bit of time if everything becomes a sort of homogenous, though at that point time wouldn’t really have a definition. The next Big Bang would likely be right around the corner.
fake, gay, and cringe.
@@OmniDan26 Says the gay Comic book adaptation bandwagoner.
"Life is what you do with what's been done to you."
-Spec Ops: The Line
Dude...your videos are simply the best. Always entertained. Good job
I love that whenever I try to learn about how to make characters/campaigns/etc i end up watching long philosophical commentaries. D&D really strikes at the heart and soul of its DMs and players
This has to be one of the most intriguing videos you’ve ever made!¡!
Every time you said "there is no good and evil" I kept expecting you to end it with "only power and those too weak to seek it"
Me too! I guess Voldemort was right all along. 😂
In about 12 minutes you had me loving the story of these characters. If you wrote a book or dnd campaign around this concept, I'd definitely buy/read that. I came here looking for help with my dnd campaign without realizing that my character is already following in the footsteps of Allen and is set on revenge. I now know how to better map out my character so thank you.
"I'm misunderstood. Beauty can't be evil." -Best boi Khada Jhin
*proceeds to kill an entire village for beauty*
My favorite villains to write are individuals with either tremendous power or recourses who act like children.
Man you must LOVE the train wreck soap opera that is the real world, then. (Laughs, then cries a little inside)
So you basically like to write manchildren
@@prasunkumar117 So SJWs?
@@NodDisciple1 sjws are not "individuals with either tremendous power or resources", this would be more of a Trump-like character
@@dementedmanatee5328 George Soros? Gates? Bob Iger?
Wheatly is my favorite twist villain. He came out of nowhere, but you slowly realize it would always happen, it's even hinted right at his turn. GLADOS becomes less aggressive upon being disconnected while wheatly becomes evil. Even at the end, we learn this isn't what he wanted, he just wanted to be accepted and not be pushed down. But alas, he's lost In space
"Everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story."
I just watched the video in the middle of January , and as i sat down and looked in the sky , thinking about the ideas you gave , a falling star came by , cutting the whole night sky in half ... Than my dog had the biggest doodoo ever and I had do deal with that . ( This is not a joke , I'm 100% serious)
P.s thanks for the vid ! Helped me a lot
My favorite characters are usually villains because they have cool and dark backstorys most of the time
There’s nothing wrong with making Pure evil villain they can be fun and often more complicated than a lot of hero villains the point of the story Isn’t to be clever it’s ultimately about being entertaining and complex villains and entertaining Tropes talks has a very good video on this
A villain is a corrupted hero. That is actually amazing, I never thought about that. Thank you for this video!
“I’m sorry little one”
“I will watch the sun rise over a grateful universe”
“They would simply cease to exist”
Thanos! (Probably misquoted)
Edit: this refers to 9:00
Y’know I once made a story about a hero vs villain setup with a twist. When a skilled diplomat joined the “villains” side, he finds that all the villain wanted was to become the mayor of the town in which the story was set. Of course, things weren’t that simple. Due to neglectful parents and, in his later years, being framed as the villain made his methods harmful to others without him knowing/understanding. But the diplomat gives him the wake up call he needed, so he changes his ways and people start liking him. However, the “hero” doesn’t understand this, as he has only ever seen the world as good vs evil, so when the “villain” changes his ways they still as usual attack him and his followers, which is now most of the town. This causes his reputation to go down the drain. He ends up getting arrested for assault, murder and attempted murder, as people don’t see him as a hero anymore, so they don’t justify his actions. Anyway, I’ve been typing this for about 15 minutes now so I’m gonna stop.
I havent watched the video yet but this is exciting. A large portion of my over arching plot is oriented around villains, all with very distinct goals and personalities. They mold the world as much as the players (In a way, theyre my DM NPC but without actually making it less fun for the players since its all in the background).
"Anyone can become a villain, all it takes is a little tribulation."
Wasn't that Joker's thesis in The Killing Joke?
3:50 had me cracking up.
"Hmmm.. How can I make my paragon character suffer so that he becomes a despicable shell of his former self?"
In all seriousness, the current literature climate seems to love fallen heroes way too much for some reason. I miss my infallible paragons.
This gave me some new angles to consider, which opened up more questions to ask myself about my characters, which lead to a REALLY good breakthrough in something I`m writing, allowing me to twist one character from 'I understand why they went kinda bad' to 'This is seriously tragic and I totally understand them'. Thank you so much for this! :)
Genuinely one of the best and most informative videos I've seen on TH-cam. I love Villains and especially writing them. This has truly helped greatly and given me a lot of insight into how to do it effectively, thank you!
Missed a good time for a Dark Knight quote
"All it takes is a little p u s h"
This only really covers the tragic villain trope, which is a good one for sure but not the only one. The joker is a good example of a villain that isn't tragic. There are just genuinely bad people both in the real world and in fiction; sometimes a person is just made incompatible with all norms of morality an decency that can be assosciated with good.
Other examples could include psychopaths; people born without the capacity to do true good, essentially, and sadists; people for whom the act of doing evil is both the method and the whole point of what they do.
Trutru. In DnD terms I've always enjoyed the thought of a high functioning psychopath vampire, hiding itself in a city as a higher-up and using the city in the subtlest ways possible.
Not like strahd, oh no, strahd was like the mofockin slenderman but with feels. This boi would actively avoid conflict, and he would be a genuinely bad person who submitted to the vision that he is what he is: a predator.
For the joker example i would recommend th-cam.com/video/TyyE8c27-9Y/w-d-xo.html
Yes there is absolute evil. Some actions can only come from evil imagination and mind completely warped beyond any logical understanding.
Actually the Joker is a tragic villain. His mother said he didn't smile enough so she cut the side of his lip. Or was that just the movie version?
Thank you for pointing out how this works for tragic villains. My antagonist is the way she because she is a bitch. There is an understanding though behind her behavior. Where she lives toxic behavior is acceptable. Maybe she is kind of tragic in her own way.
That guy at the office you accidentally spilled coffee on could be the next BBG.
This really reminds me of one of the main villains from my favorite book series. From his point of view, he just woke up after almost 2000 years and comes to help his people back to glory and fight against the people who put them into so much pain. In reality, he was the thing that right before he disappeared for 2000 years, scared his people into hiding and pain with his powers. The people who put them into that pain? That was a simple war that went away soon after he left. The people were actually starting to get along again. I love when you look at the villains POV and see a hero’s story.
You beautiful human, I love you for helping with my characters!
This is just a good way to write a character in general
Soooo? Can we see that screen play?
Because it sounds awesome.
Like Umbrella Academy awesome.
please?
Sweet
I don't know much about that... Show? So when I saw this comment, my first thought was "Which Resident Evil game was that again?"
me and my homies love the umbrella academy
This video has a lot of research. Great video thanks! :) I cant wait to start my first DND campaign!
I'm overwhelmed that this applies to basically any story that one wants to create. Nicely done, sir.
Thank you soo much for this video, it's so damn great.
Also I feel like the arcane writers saw your video and that's why their characters are so awesome
I'm a simple man, I see Jhin, I like the post
I'm actually in the process of making my first D&D campaign,and this video really reaffirmed that I am making the right steps in making my villain.
Originally the villain was a PC idea I had that was going to become a villain, so that's more or less where he starts, as an adventurer much like those that will be the party members.
He began life as young noble but tragedy struck when he lost his home to an invading force, his family murdered he barely got away through a secret passage.
He was smart, but not very strong and even less charismatic. He had goals of taking his home back one day but it was hard getting people to join his cause.
Upon fighting a necromancer cult he realizes a solution, an undead army. A bit dark but not totally evil. His second tragedy comes now. His party, his only friends people he saw as his new family found the leader behind the cult a beholder who had come into contact with the eye of Vecna. The party dies fighting this monster and he is left alone. The eye speaks to him tell him that it can help him accomplish his goals and will make sure he is never alone again.
He uses the eye, from here the corruption begins. The eye makes his paranoid and untrusting. He begins searching for more artifacts to strengthen himself with.
The party will start the game with an undead horde besieging a city. This is but 1 of many such attacks, all diversions to keep the real assault on the villain's Homeland unoticed.
Sounds amazing man! Hopefully that Campaign played out just fine!
“How to write a good antagonist.” Wat? So they can get one shot by my party? And have all their motivations and character building ignored? Nope.
Well maybe you could introduce them before your players are strong enough to kill them, or before they are revealed to be opposed to the players. Just an idea.
Perhaps all that background has already occurred, and your players are learning about the antagonist as they investigate his actions.
You could make them undying, so no matter how hard the player hurt them, they wont truly die until X happens. Maybe the villain is a lich, and the players have to gain access to its personal pocket dimension in order to destroy its phylactery. Or maybe the villain has access to clones, so when one dies, the next arrives stronger and smarter than the last, having learned the party's tactics and prepared to counter their ever move. Hell, just get rid of the villain's HP entirely, let the players deal with something that just can't die, such as a force of nature like an earthquake or meteor storm.
Everytime the villain is about to die give em some bullshit way to escape that was their plan all along
@@greenEntertainer. that feels kinda cheap though
I came here expecting Logan's usual entertaining videos, and he opens with something genuinely thought provoking
Bro I'd watch your screen play on repeat, sound like theres a lot of intricate details and if the quality of your videos is anything to go off I'd say we'd all be in for a treat
I lowkey became attatched to your character examples, I want to find out what happens to them!
Ifkr? This should be a book ;-;
Because of bias, I wanna see what happens after Allan achieves his goal. A man who lost everything, getting what he asked for... what happens after the dagger has been stained? What are his thoughts immediately after the euphoria of killing the man who destroyed you? What happens in the minutes after the deed was done? Honestly, the most cliche option is for him to end it there as well.
@Josh_Le_Gamer Allan kills Winston just before Winston can fund the last stage of the project. Winston dies before he can help the world achieve true greatness, his ultimate fear. James’s project is now underfunded at just the wrong time and the stress at this causes James to finally break, showing his weakness to the public and proving all who doubted him right. Allan has now gotten his revenge, and his life marches on without purpose or meaning.
My dark ending to all of this.
“Madness is a lot like gravity: It just takes a little push...” - Joker
"If no one appreciates my work, and they all live to mock me, why should I even consider them?"
Well, seems like I'm already a "villain" then!
THANK YOU! i was having a lot of trouble writing a good antagonist for my story that wasn't just "baad, because... Evil?" for the sake of moving the story along. I loved how you started by making them the hero since everyone is the hero of their own story anyway and if they themselves can't justify their reasons how will a reader ever do? And an antagonist a reader can not at least understand, is a badly written character. The way you developed them by connecting them to one another helped a lot since I couldn't figure out a reason to justify their actions while writing them desperately but once i connected them it all just came naturally... Great video, much better than the lists of things to do or avoid. You gave an example through a story which is so much easier to grasp especially for people who love reading and writing stories!!
I kinda suck at villain backstories, but Imma try to do one. So like he had fire and illusion powers but he couldnt control his illusion powers. He was commiting homocide after homocide, crime after crime. He had a friend who WAS a superhero, and although he was jealous of him, he loved him. After he witnessed his friend die brutally, by getting tortured in gruesome ways, crucified, getting burned and eaten alive, he wanted to make it all stop. And so this trauma triggered his illusion powers, making HIM see in illusions. In his own POV he thought he was saving people, stopping robberies, and killing criminals. He thought he was being a hero, while he was the thing he swore to destroy. After finding out, he tried to commit suicide knowing what he did, but then he realized that he could reverse this, possibly, using a time machine. It took him a few decades to even build the machine. After he did, he traveled back in time to save his friend, and destroy the person who killed him by doing the same thing to him, torturing him brutally to death. But what he didnt realize was that his illusion powers triggered again, and the person that he was torturing to death, the person that he did unspoken horrible things to, was actually his friend who he was trying to save.
here's the thing, evil IS an absolute in dnd. there's a plane made entirely out of it. there are gods who are built out of nothing but the universal aspect of evil. asmodeus doesn't have the ability to see himself as the hero. asmodeus is undeniably evil and doesn't have the agency of mortals to be able to change himself or how he behaves. evil is a real tangible concept in dnd that things are literally made out of.
that said, all of this is why I find generic demon lords to be boring antagonists. because they never had the choice, they never had an option, they're just playing out the role given to them.
This is all a very good point, but even some DnD villains have compelling, human(ish) stories. See Strahd.
That being said, I like demon lords simply because of how metal they are lol. Throw some HOTS music in the background and have a jolly good scrap! Lol
That sounds like a setup for a good villain. A being who is born of evil but realizes that it was the universe itself that made him/her evil and their villainous acts are all in the name of rewriting the natural order cause they don't bow down to anyone, not even abstract concepts.
@@kylestanley7843 oh, I'm aware it's entirely possible to have compelling stories of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. I'm just saying...well, he starts off with "I don't believe evil is an alignment or a concept" and that works in real life, but not in the cosmology of dnd