Yes. However there are no unchosen obligations. Every obligation, by definition, must be voluntarily undertaken. If you're forced to do something because of your country (like pay taxes) by way of violence, that isn't moral to pay, not can it be immoral to refuse to pay. One must agree to abide by a standard in order to be obliged.
I feel the point of the phrase "moral obligation" is the implication that it is the correct moral choice, and the assumption that our moral intuition should obligate us to act toward that choice.
@@justinbell7309 I'm sorry, but feelings are not morals nor are they obligations nor are they a compass for finding the true north of morality. *shrug*
Being a "trained fighter" does not mean you can magically control a violent situation like a superhero. Inserting yourself physically will often take you to some bad places, medically and legally.
2 men who went to 3 MMA classes are also way more dangerous than one man who is an expert. In real life violent situations, the troublesome party is almost always in greater number or have weapons. Otherwise they wouldn't even try.
You don't really learn anything in 3 MMA classes though, and an expert can knockout one guy who had 3 mma classes, than the second guy won't do anything. 2 guys with no real fight experience vs an expert, that fight is going to finish really fcking quick....... To add to that, I would say that it will take atleast 10 years of very consistent training for anyone to become an expert, meaning ATLEAST four trainingsessions per week, wich would be more in one week than either one of those guys had in their entire life experiencewise.
@@Eembuster If the "expert" can convince the second guy to wait for him to dispose of the first guy, you may be onto something. I watched Bruce Lee clear out whole Japanese dojos by getting his opponents to come at him one at a time. Not being an MMA "expert" is not the same as not knowing how to grab, punch, or kick, though (and it's not safe to assume that the two guys *don't* have any training or experience, by the way). Expertly applying a triangle choke is more complicated when 190 pounds of extra guy are grabbing your arms, kicking you, or staving your head in with a fire extinguisher. And sticking a knife in your neck while you're hands are busy with Bachelor Number One would be a pretty simple matter, too. The dojo (or kwoon) is not the ring, and the ring is not the street.
Let me guess you guys dont train and you're tryna convince yourself you could take on an mma fighter with some buddies well guess what buddy you better pick the right fighter cause if you pick someone who is an EXPERT with his hands idc how many of you there are at least two are getting dropped and the rest arent enough to save you after that you going timber on pavement my friend
I love the fact that this guy can experience the difference between what it's like in China and US. And then can relay that back to us vibrantly so that we can get the same feeling second-hand. Write a book, I'd read tf out of it.
I read an article once, which always stuck with me: interestingly enough you have considerably more chances to be saved from a dangerous situation when there is only one spectator around than when there is a crowd of people. A single person might feel responsible for the outcome and decide to help without much hesitation; while the people in a crowd would hesitate to intervene as everyone is waiting for somebody else to make a move, delegating the responsibility. Eventually no one helps and you are screwed. Makes you think.
its called the bystander effect. it stems back to a case where a women was attacked and killed in the courtyard of an apartment complex with dozens of her neighbors all witnessing some aspect of the attack and failing to call police or intervene based on the knowledge that others were also witnessing it and assuming somebody else must have called the police. google kitty genovese for the full story. "the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
@@michaellesak6912 Yes, that's it, the *bystander effect.* There's countless examples happened throughout history. The one you mention is only the tip of the iceberg.
@@ilitardo160 the original newspaper article was highly sensational, but the core story is true. the attack took place over a long time and they made no attempt to be quiet. the killer even drove away and came back to stab her again and rape her as she bled out. only after he drove away a second time did they call the police.
A moral obligation can be argued until the end of time. Personally, if I knew I could assist someone who cannot or will not defend themselves from someone who clearly intends mortal harm to another human and did not, my conscience would not let me forget it for a long time.
Nobody has an obligation to put themselves in danger by trying to directly to intervene. But everybody should at least have the morale to call the police.
Now woud you say police have an obligation to enter a situation with certain knowledge of severe injury, or should they be allowed to wait for backup / the situation to change to limit risk?
@@inquisitorsquish5422 There's no difference between a cop and a gangster thug except that they work for a gang which managed to trick people into thinking it wasnt a band of thieves.
Citizens in medieval England, who mostly lived in rural villages and stuff, had a legal responsibility to chase after a criminal when the "hue and cry" was raised after a crime was committed, such as stealing
I'll be honest, that story was epic and heartwarming initially but when the guy got up and attacked his assailants again it kind of became comedic especially with your delivery. Great video by the way. I liked the moral philosophy at the end especially.
honestly in today's day and age it's too dangerous to defend strangers, i remember an article where a woman sued a man for defending her, and actually won, it was kinda awkward to be honest
I am more impressed witht his story telling talent then his knowledge of martial arts he can talk about his dirty underwear for hours and keep his listeners glued. What a legend.
I gotta be honest... I don't fight, or train. I enjoy watching the sport but don't have any pretense or imagine that I'm a fighter. I have been watching Ramsey for months. Even calming tones, thoughtful responses... real wisdom. I find I can relate your wisdom to other aspects of life. The world needs more Ramsey Deweys.
It could be seem as an obligation because it's an internal drive to expose yourself to unnecessary danger in order to protect a greater good. The line between barbarism and civilization is blurry, and the latter is so precious that, in the end, in your death bed, you'll probably wish you had done more to spread goodness and compassion. I believe even littles acts of defiance against the chaos of barbarism give people hope and makes a better future more likely to blossom.
Thank you for replying and reading comments, one time i was in some serious pain from medical issues. I was watching your videos trying to find peace, i found it in the advice. It was the video about death. It helped me not be afraid to die if it got worst. Since then i have healed alot and whos to say if i never found peace that id have made it at all! Thanks for being there.
My Dad taught me - and every one of the thousands of kids that have been through his Scout troop over 30 years - that if you watch an injustice happening and do nothing it's the same as doing that injustice yourself.
What a great , honest , thought provoking and [self] challenging Video . I do wonder why I , with no fighting skills, or training , love perusing not only your vids but several other combat channels . There is , in my mind an Honesty surrounding physical combat that cannot be found anywhere else , it alludes me to be able to say why .
"If it's an obligation it's not morality, it's a compulsion." I've watched a lot of your videos, I find myself agreeing with most things you say, I disagree with very few things you've said but this? I absolutely agree with this sentiment, I have rarely heard something that resonates this much with me.
My few thoughts on the question, because it's really a good one. First - I don't think that (the way it was posted "as trained martial artist") it does matter if you are capable or not to help if you wish to try. Second - I completely thing that nobody have the 'moral obligation' to help, moral can be completely different thing based on they way you were raised. Obligation - there is none. The most important thing - if you wish to help, there is nothing wrong with that - if you feel scared/insecure to act - there is nothing wrong with that ether. Life happens and we have choices which we can make, sometimes we regret them, sometimes we don't and there are times when we are proud of the action or decisions in our past. But I would try to analyze the situation and act accordingly where my safety and those around me which I put great value (wife/kids/family/friends etc.) will be the top priority, I'm not such a good Samaritan. If there is little-to-no-risk involved I would try to save anyone even a person who I know deserves it from violence if it crosses the line of which it's becoming dangerous and non-consensual example of consensual violence - two guys start fighting non-consensual and a point where I would interfere the point where one is knocked out and the other continue to beat him. That said a lot of people don't think when they talk/act that in certain countries or regions such things are very risky, as Ramsey said about China - you become legally obliged to the person you help, this will be a really hard thing for me to comprehend and I'm thankful I don't have to do with stuff like that. In some countries trying to intervene would easily result in quick death - when violent people are usually tied with criminals/organized crime and are not afraid to use lethal force at any given time - being involved would be such a risky move that I think I will be too scared to act. If we're talking about some developed country, where most of the street violence is between a bully and a wimp and aside from the physical disparity there is nothing else worth considering - anyone (even a old woman or little girl) could easily intervene and de-escalate the whole thing. My favorite video and response to such thing is the ongoing meme just google "repent sinner meme" the dude reaction was amazing and in the same time prevented violence and de-escalated the situation in a flash with a single expression.
I think in Britain it's called "duty of care". My sister once told me a story to explain it: someone had fallen into a cannel, couldn't swim and was drowning. A passer by who was good swimmer was asked to help, but he didn't want to and the man drowned. Court decided he was under no obligation to help. A similar thing happened again, but the passer by was an off duty policeman; he too didn't help. However, the court decided that even though off duty he had a "duty of care" because if his job as police. The man in the restaurant may have had a duty of care towards anyone in the restaurant (his work colleagues and customers) when at work. I don't know thought, as this story and the one about a dead mouse in bottle of lemonade is about the total of my legal knowledge.
Very good comments, I agree with you and a very interesting experience you had. Thanks for sharing. I was thinking in regards to the merciful woman, not to be culturally insensitive, as I doubt the woman was Christian, but what a Christlike thing to do.
I heard that to this day, that cycle of those 6 guys beating that one guy up, the girl begging them for mercy, and that guy getting back up and attacking again, is still going on.
I remember the public's reaction in "The Incredibles", where people started to protest against superheroes who saved them. X-Men storylines kind of go the same way, except because some mutants with special abilities caused harm to the public, the public wanted all mutants registered, rounded up and put in incarceration camps, and depowered or killed. You'd better do some hard thinking on that one. The problem is more complex when it's an entire country that feels it needs to "save" another country. Just remember that we're all human...and mortal.
Interestingly here in Germany you are legally obliged to help people who are in danger. If you fail to do so you can be sued for „Unterlassene Hilfeleistung“ (weird German term, it basically means not providing assistance to someone in need of help). This includes medical emergencies, accidents or attacks. Though it is important to note that the help provided doesn’t have to be more than what can be expected from one. If someone collapses due to organ failure one can not be expected to treat it as a doctor could, due to their lack of medical expertise. But calling for help or an ambulance should be possible for almost anyone, therefore you are legally obliged to do so. This can be a littlebit trickier in the case of an attack since it can not be expected of one to put themself in harms way. Usually calling the police is the thing to do, maybe a 200kg male can be expected to stop a 50kg girl from punching her boyfriend this usually is judged on a case to case basis. Important is that no one has to expose themself to danger to help other people. Same rule goes for airplanes or medics. Make sure to be safe yourself before helping others. And I think the same applies to the question wether one is morally obliged. If you are able to help without risking a notable injury yourself you are obliged to step in. If it can become dangerous for you, even if there only is a possibility that the attacker carries a knife, you can no longer be expected to intervene
It's sometimes tricky because you can never be sure that you know the full story of what you'd be intervening in and it makes the situation either better or worse. Like seeing a guy getting beaten by another guy, but it turns out the guy getting smacked around just sucker punched a friend of the dude kicking his ass. Or in the case of a guy I once knew, he saw a man shoving this woman around and yelling at her, he went to break it up and then both the man and woman started attacking him. Its one of those situations where if you're going to act, its not a bad thing, just acknowledge that you may not always have all the information.
Seriously just a month ago a small women disarmed a guy with a knife in Melbourne...she was not a martial artist. We see all these drills and yet she almost magically disarmed him and a few people jumped on him.
I had to step over someone begging for help to protect myself from ending up right beside him. I also used to jump between a man beating his wife only for her to turn on me. I got jumped by 9 people in a orphanage too. They cracked my face and stomped my head in.
Getting between spouses is the worst mistake anyone can make. You go after the male to protect her, then she comes after you. Next thing you know, they're both on top of you.
You shouldn't put yourself in danger. Always weigh the options and in most cases it will probably be out of your control. We aren't super humans we won't come out unscathed if we pick a fight with the wrong guys But personaly if I saw a situation were someone was attacked and I felt I could handle it I would try to help
>in most cases it will probably be out of your control Lol, absolute bullshit. There's literally no reason for you to suppose that other than being a massive coward. >We aren't super humans we won't come out unscathed if we pick a fight with the wrong guys Yeah and you will die if you don't react immediately to the wrong disease. That doesn't mean that you call an ambulance for every caugh. Most attackers are not assassins that are armed to the teeth and willing to fight themselves out of every situation. Most attackers give up the moment they are confronted by ANY third party. Not to speak of being confronted by a mean looking guy with biceps veins and cauliflower ears.
I was crippled as a child in the 60's. I suffered a great deal of other of kids making fun of me. The embarrassment and shame was overwhelming. I vowed if i ever could walk again i would never allow people to harass others with physical or mental disability. When i began high school i was able to walk. i started tai kwon do classes. I grew strong and proficient in fighting. From then on i protected the defenseless against bullies. I am now 63 and still fight those who bully or try to harm the defenseless. Most recently i to used a choke hold on a drunk 33 yr old man trying to harm a senior citizen. Protecting others has also felt like a moral obligation. Thanku. NJ
Wow excellent video sir. great comments and questions posed about this issue. One of the major issues that I go over with people when teaching about this issue is to make sure that you know the situation you are getting yourself into. The last thing you want to do is possibly hurt good people that maybe defending against the "victim". Sometimes the person who appears to be the victim may not be. Although I would also advocate for helping your fellow man in many situations I say please be very careful about the situation you get yourself involved in.
Similar situation with girl pleading to two tough guys to stop slapping around a dude who wouldn't stand back after a stupid argument in a row for pizza happened to me. They actually started being aggressive to her as well but didn't touch her. They were scary looking guys and I felt I needed to do something but also was trying to think and also I was scared. I started approaching cautiously thinking about trying to talk them out of it and pull the guy away from them but luckily the guy came to his senses forgot about his pride and decided to remove himself from the situation and that was the end of it. These guys were clearly criminals who had experience with these kind of situations. One of them was controlling the crowd of people eating in the pizza place while the other was focusing on the victim. Fucked up situations can happen. We will react how we react, logic and rationality rarely play the role here.
It depends on the country and your citizenship/nationality. I remember Firas Zahabi talking about this one angry man who was threatening him in the US. He said that he would not use violence in another country as his work life depends on travel. As a non-citizen if he gets arrested, things might get tough for his MMA coaching work. Though back in Canada he would use violence to defend himself. Or possibly a bystander being attacked too? Just another angle on the matter.
Ramsey if I may. I don't want my earlier comment to be misconstrued. So I will try another approach. What is moral obligation? It's a decision one makes as to an act being considered right or wrong. But who decides what is right or wrong. A dictator who kills consider his act right. But we may consider his act wrong. Is the dictator morally obligated to kill others? When you feel morally obligated to defend someone, you do so because you have decided to do so is the right thing to do. In the real world it may not be the wisest decision. Because we all value right and wrong in light of our experience. Trained warriors don't feel its a moral obligation. They consider it an HONOR to defend that person. Honor is a state of mind. Moral obligation is a question. If you have to decided if an act is morally right or wrong you have lost the battle. But IN YOUR HEART you know an act is wrong, you resolve all fear, all hesitation. It's not should you act. You must act. This is the honor I speak of. This is the honor that will make your enemy salute you even in death. This is RESPECT I speak of. When Bonhoeffer climb the gallows he did so honorably. And he went down in history as deservingvof respect. When two boxers beat each other in the ring and both did so honorably, what happens in the end, regardless of who won or lost? They embrace. They kiss each others cheek. They display RESPECT. Ramsey there are parts of the world where the inhabitants don't have anything. Barely food. And even though they have NOTHING that we can see or appreciate-- there are two things they have in abundance: Honor and respect. And for these they will willingly die for. And for these they are against all odds usually victorious. So who would you have defend you? Rodin the thinker who decides what is right or wrong? Or the fighter who is honored to defend your life, regardless of moral obligation. Several years ago a prostitute I knew was killed. She was not my friend. Just somebody I knew from walking up and down the street. I personally took it upon myself to track the guy down and rock his world. Then told police to come and arrest him. I certainly wasn't morally obligated. She was dead. And yet I felt honored to risk my life with this drug dealer. Had I lost i would have still earned RESPECT. In the end no matter your station in life, you will not be judged on moral obligation. We all will be judge on honor and respect. Thanks for offering such questions Ramsey. And now I must go out and water my garden.
I appreciate how you take the time to think about what you're going to say before you say it. I think more of us should try to be more precise in our speech as JBP says rather than littering our sentences with "uhm" and "like" Great video ramsey
I recently discovered your channel and have really enjoyed a lot of your content. This to date has been my favorite of your videos. Especially the discourse about moral and obligation. Very thought provoking and you are an exceptional story teller. Great Stuff.
Totally situational for me. If you like to intervene that is ego. But if there is absolutely nobody left and the police will be too late that is different. I missed my cab driving shift, went to the bar with my pepper spray on me. This man robbed the bar, I called the police and I pepper sprayed him in the face. When the police showed up, he told me "I don't want to know your name. I don't want you on the report".
I have been on the 'aggressor side' of this. A dude I had never seen jumped on my friend and I one hand choked him and threw him on the ground. Turned out they knew each other, and it wasn't a real attack. I apologized to him. But for years he would try to pick a fight with me. I was in the Marines at the time. It was Frodo picking a fight with Brock Lesner. After two years of him trying to pick a fight with me I had finally had it. I 'Darth Vadered' him, picking him up by his neck and slamming him on the wall with one hand. That finally got the message through and he left me alone. I used to be a lot stronger obviously.
Am I my brother's keeper? Of course! In the US you have a fundamental right to self defense and coming to the aid of another is called self defense in the third person - you can defend another as if you were defending yourself.
A moral obligation is something you feel you should do in an altruistic way, either based on your beliefs, empathy & the feeling of guilt you would have after if you didn't help when you knew you could. If you can just watch, or walk right past without feeling bad about it, you're not morally obligated, it's down to the individuals.
Very good analysis of this issue! Culture and even your own upbringing makes a huge difference. It is important to consider the consequences of helping. You could also become a victim. As a police officer we teach rookie officers that they are no longer a citizen and a simple fight is no longer simple. EVERY incident has a gun and other weapons - we have brought them with us. If we lose, the victor now can take our weapons and use them against us or others. The same applies to people who are "good Samaritans", even if they do not use the weapon they may have, it is still there.
Great video as always man, covering an interesting topic. It reminds me of a point brought up in a Japanese Animated series. The Protagonist was chosen to inherit power not because he was Superhumanly able but because he had the heart to help. So he was given power to become a super hero.
Sometimes we defend others out of Fear., Sometimes as You Turn Your Back, You Are Next. If you have gone out of your way to be prepared to take action to defend yourself and your Integrity, It is difficult to just Walk Away. Much Easier trying to stay far from these Situations
Feeling the compulsion to do so means your heart is in the right place. But you're not a piece of shit for being too afraid or worried about legal consequences.
I'm not sure if anyone will read this, but this hits home for me really hard. I was at a restaurant a few years ago with some friends and I saw a waitress get harassed by these drunk guys and grabbed at the waist, demanding a picture. I wanted to step in so badly, but a few questions came to mind: What if they have a weapon? What if they start a fight and I get arrested for assault? - as a black man in the US, that's an even higher risk There were so many questions that came to mind, and I feel that I was more afraid of the consequences that could ensue after defending that girl than the actual guys themselves, as I have some martial arts experience. However, a huge part of me still feels ashamed that I didn't step into the situation, and I feel embarrassed at myself for not doing so.
Fascinating topic. I've often wondered the same thing. Over here in the UK, the self defense laws are quite vague, but mostly reasonable. Pre-emptive strikes are also allowed with reasonable justification...but there is still the chance of jail time, which makes me pensive about the whole thing.
@@jamesrowlands1943 Yep. The stakes for getting close can be quite dangerous. Although it does depend where you are. The London bubble has a way worse issue with knives than anywhere else in the country. But it's still a possibility.
Coach Dewey I've got a question: I REALLY want to visit China, or even hopefully work there. I really love Chinese culture, history and philosophy. I don't know if I'm qualified to call myself "a Daoist" but Daoism is what I practise and believe. For the past year I've been learning Mandarin - my reading is getting pretty good but my speaking/listening isn't very good yet. What I'm worried about though is this rule that you can be culpable for someone's medical bills and get sued if you help someone at the scene of an accident; and if you get involved if you see an injustice on the street like a woman getting verbally or physically assaulted then you are probably not going to be treated favourably and can go to prison for it. The reason I'm worried is because I'm someone who can't help themselves from getting involved if I see an injustice happening or someone in danger, and I can't stop myself from giving someone assistance if they're injured or they have an accident. It's just instinct for me, it's how I was raised by my father (who I saw step in to help or defend strangers when I was a kid and who worked as a paramedic for over 25 years) and it's my moral code, as well as a compulsion. I know couldn't live with myself if I didn't step in to help and the few times I didn't do it when I was a teenager still really bother me and I find myself ruminating on them sometimes. How do I reconcile these two things: my need/compulsion to step in and help people with my deep desire to visit, or hopefully even live in, Zhong Guo/China? Any advice would mean the world to me. It's the only thing stopping me from doing it and it's been my dream to see or live in China since I was a kid - I had read the four classics by the age of 14 and the five Confucian classics by the age of 18. Please Ramsey I need your knowledge "For The Streetz". Thanks, you're a legend & I'm a longtime fan of your channel. All the best to you.
I have heard of a story where a guy saved an unknown woman from drowning and then she tries to sue that guy for sexual assault as he touched her without her concent to save her from drowning... Helping someone can lead to you getting in trouble sometimes.
I once tried to rescue a young lady from her underwear and virginity but instead the ungrateful women called the police... That's it for me no more mister nice guy.
When I was a skinny 19 year old teenager I was walking down a South London Street at night on the way to a party. I saw a woman with 4 big roid-looking guys getting shouted at by one, I stopped and watched from the other side of the street and when the guy punched her and knocked her flat I ran over - partly to just see if she was ok cos she hit the ground hard. They obviously saw me as something to take their aggression from the situation out on and although I tried to fight back I got floored and took an absolute beating (probably should have just covered up instead of trying to fight my way back to my feet). I picked myself up after and carried on towards the party and on the way a group of people stopped me, told me I was covered in blood and got me a taxi to hospital. At A&E the staff told me "you shouldn't have got involved" Aged 20 I was at a festival. I saw a girl getting screamed at in her face by a guy. This time I didn't hang around and got in the middle. The guy calmed down and was being cool, then while we were talking sucker-punched me with a headbutt, broke my nose. We had a brief fight that got spilt up quickly. I had to stay overnight in hospital after having an operation to reset my nose (the first op with a local anaesthetic, which the doctor offered to let me try without anaesthetic so it could be ruled out quicker, didn't work). After I came round on the ward whenever new nurses came in shift they're ask me how it happened. After I told them, again and again, they'd all say "well you know what to do next time now, don't get involved". In my mid-20s my mate was walking home with me from a party (I was really really drunk & he didn't want me to walk it alone on a Friday night). I saw a guy red in the face screaming in a girl's face, she was cowering against a wall, another male, I assume a friend, was with them doing nothing. As we walked past I purposely walked between them, forcing the guy to step back, and as I did I said to him "leave her alone". Maybe 20 services later slightly further along the road my mate looked behind us and said "Phil look!". I turned and the guy was bouncing up to me with his hands up in a guard wanting to fight. Even though I was REALLY drunk my training carried me: I kept circling to his left, faded out of range of every punch he threw (it wasn't difficult) and I only threw one punch back for each one he threw at me. Eventually he gave up and walked off with the girl & guy. On the way home the police stopped us, the guy who'd chosen to fight me had called the police. I explained everything exactly as it had happened. The police were really great and were cool about it; they took a statement saying I had been the one who was assaulted and I didn't want to press charges and they gave us a lift home. When the dropped us off the two officers who drove us said to me before I got out "now, next time you see a situation like this I advise you don't get involved and just call us" I'm 31 now and these aren't the only times this has happened. But, despite all this, despite the advice from people: If I see an injustice happening that I can do something to influence, if I see one-sided violence or threats of violence, or if I see bullying: I WILL ALWAYS GET INVOLVED. AND YOU SHOULD TOO, TO THE FURTHEST EXTENT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF. Imagine how those situations had of progressed if I hadn't gotten involved. Imagine if it was the woman in each of these not me, with my (admittedly pretty average level of) training and my ability to take a punch. And the thing I regret isn't the times when I got involved - despite being hospitalised, despite not making it to that party, despite getting a broken nose, desire the stay in hospital, despite the fact my nose still isn't perfectly straight & my right nostril hardly takes in any air now , despite thinking I was going to get arrested, despite everything - what I regret are the times I didn't get involved, not the times I did. Anyway to anyone who'se actually made it to here, thanks for reading.
An obligation is a debt. A debt is something you owe. Does a trained martial artist owe some person an aiding defense? The answer is no. The expense to him or herself could be serious injury, medical and other expenses and possibly death. You are right Sifu/Sensei it is a choice.
Sometimes, anyone saying stop, is enough. Sometimes, it isn’t. But just hearing the word stop, changes the situation. If no one says stop, then the people attacking, rely on their own senses to determine when to stop, which is either exhaustion, one of their party saying that is enough, fear of being caught, or violent intervention from others.
i've been an enforcer from the age of 5.3 and god has protected me with guidence of helping others in various situations by various endeavours through lifes walk. i'm now 64
Brazil is similar, but depending on the situation you are legally obliged to just call and wait there for an ambulance with the dude. Fines get pretty big too.
I stopped a bar fight that had been going on for 20 minutes, I'm trained in jiu-jitsu and jkd, I didn't want to get involved, the bar tender got clipped trying to stop it, female bar tender. Three guys tried to stop it as well but they couldn't get the guy off the other, I took the responsibility into my hands, rear naked choked him and took him to the ground, but didn't hit, told him to stop, another guy swung at me I parried him and pushed him back, they threw him out. Even though I stopped it, I was told to never do that again by the establishment. Yes you can make that decision but they aren't always grateful. I however got a bucket of beer out of it, by the guys friends.
I think that the establishment was just afraid you would end up making it bigger, and end up giving bad publicity, and maybe some sort of negative attention that would make more fights. They are wrong, whoever run the place should have really taken a better look at the situation, and maybe even hire you as a bouncer or smth. Surely what I would have done
I say 20 minutes but most of that was arguing, then pushing, then swinging, then arguing, then swinging, then it ended up on one guy getting pinned against an atm machine and get the crap beat out of him, bleeding all over the place for about 4 to 5 minutes. That place didn't want to call the cops either.
Uncle coach Ramsey :) Definatly agree no obligation for fighter, just remember one thing from social behavior. More people are around, than individuals have more tendency to count on actict of the rest (Bystander effect). So remember it is propably better to take action and not wait for someone.
As a somewhat longtime MA you dont owe anyone anything. That said i would help in whatever way I could - intervene physically, via voice or call police.
I once saw old action stars define what is hero. I thought about it my self and my conclusion is. The difference between warrior and soldier is also connected to it. HERO is someone who do right, always, no matter what the conseuquences are
Here in Brazil there is a law aspect called "Third party legitimate defense" that is, acting reasonably immediately and proportionately to a criminal violation that happened to someone else other than you. So, here in Brazil it would be perfectly honest and good to act as soon as the opportunity existed, but, nothing obligate someone to put himself in danger, and one should be careful to act proportionately to the harm and danger involved.
It's hard enough to claim self defense when you are attacked (and prove it), let along if you are defending a complete stranger. If you hurt the "bad guy", you will be in a LOT of trouble. Besides, how do you know who the "bad guy" is?
It's also harder to prove that it wasn't self defense, which they must also do btw. Technically it does not actually have to be self defense , unless it's provable beyond doubt that it wasn't ,you can claim that.
Best advice pay attention to the actual laws concerning that in your area, and honestly if you live somewhere you don't have that right I recommend moving lol
Thank you for using your forced time at home for answering more of our questions. I appreciate it. For the next Q&A: What do you think of Hawaiian Kempo?
Hey M. Dewey, great talk, I love your channel. Ifound myself in a similar situation a few years ago. I've found that sometimes simply to intervene and sieze the "control" of the situation will suffice to break-up the fight. I was downtown where I came across a fight between Homeless people. One was attacking two others (for their spot i think). He was chasing off a younger one who was trying to circle back to get while also trying to fight an older man who was trying to fend him off with "snake style" eye pokes. The agressor had a friend who was heckling the passing crowd. The crowd was more shocked than spectator. The agressor and the old man are still at a 2m (6ft sorry i'm canadian (haha i said i was sorry)), so i get closer while calling the police. The agressor then drops the old man with a hailmary style hook. and tries to fend off the younger one trying to help the old man. At this point I decide to go in and step between the agressor and his victims. Now, I'm not an intimading guy, far from it; i'm 5'7 (i say 5'8 when i'm dating) and the other was way bigger. I'm clearly posturing, but with the confidence that with my 15+ years of judo training will at the very least able me to protect myself if things go bad. Everybody, the crowd, the heckler and the agressor stopped. has I told him to stop and leave, a lady came out from the crowd to help the old man up and at least two other people joined me behind my "line in the sand". The agressor than left and the police arrived shortly after. What Imean to say by this is, as you said in an other video, Streetfights are chaotic by nature; whereas sport fights have codes and legislations. hence They are more "predictable", we know there are going to be two fighters, there is a set number of rounds, at the end there is a winner and the crowd cheers. My point is that when an average person knows what to expect, he knows how to behave. Which is not the case of a street fight where to crowd is shocked and paralyse. So by making a stand, by seizing the control of the situation, you set an exemple to the rest of the peopole around you, it then enables them to make that stand with you. This brings me to a question, Coach. It's about a similar issue and about a subject I know you love, superheroes. I wanted to know your take on Vigilantism. We can illustrate the topic with the case of Pheonix Jones, a real live "super"hero. Essentially, Jones was a professionnal MMA fighter that decided to don a Mask and costume and intervene in the streetfights of Seatle. I think at some point he also formed a briggade of crime "prevention". It's a real story, here is a link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Jones . I think he stopped his activities in 2014, but there are other people who do similar things and identifying themselves with the hyper-altruism mouvement. So oubviously I want to continnue and deepan the current conversation and ask where can someone go to far, at what point have you crossed the line where you can no longuer rightfully call on moral obligation to justify yourself? So ya, Masked vigilantes! I can't wait to hear from you, Yours, Phil P.S. Can you do a fantastic fight review of captain America VS GSP :D P.P.S. You dont have to read aloud the first part of the comment, It's only anecdotal
Hi Ramsey. I love your channel, it's one of my favorites. One question, I'm almost 40, but a want to be able to do the Split... but I can only open my legs like 100°. Can I do it if I train enoght? Thanks!
"Can it be called moral if you're obligated to do it?"
Man, this is heavy.
Yes.
However there are no unchosen obligations. Every obligation, by definition, must be voluntarily undertaken. If you're forced to do something because of your country (like pay taxes) by way of violence, that isn't moral to pay, not can it be immoral to refuse to pay. One must agree to abide by a standard in order to be obliged.
I feel the point of the phrase "moral obligation" is the implication that it is the correct moral choice, and the assumption that our moral intuition should obligate us to act toward that choice.
@@justinbell7309
I'm sorry, but feelings are not morals nor are they obligations nor are they a compass for finding the true north of morality. *shrug*
@@Pope2501 I never said feelings are moral, dude. Or any of that.
@@justinbell7309 Instead of saying "moral intuition" I would say "moral principles."
Uncle Ben = Ramsey Dewey
Uncle Ben: Take my hand, Peter.
Peter takes Uncle Ramseys hand
POW arm bar!
Hahahahaha!!!
Being a "trained fighter" does not mean you can magically control a violent situation like a superhero. Inserting yourself physically will often take you to some bad places, medically and legally.
2 men who went to 3 MMA classes are also way more dangerous than one man who is an expert.
In real life violent situations, the troublesome party is almost always in greater number or have weapons. Otherwise they wouldn't even try.
You don't really learn anything in 3 MMA classes though, and an expert can knockout one guy who had 3 mma classes, than the second guy won't do anything. 2 guys with no real fight experience vs an expert, that fight is going to finish really fcking quick.......
To add to that, I would say that it will take atleast 10 years of very consistent training for anyone to become an expert, meaning ATLEAST four trainingsessions per week, wich would be more in one week than either one of those guys had in their entire life experiencewise.
Both of you are correct... There's a lot of nuance here.
@@Eembuster If the "expert" can convince the second guy to wait for him to dispose of the first guy, you may be onto something. I watched Bruce Lee clear out whole Japanese dojos by getting his opponents to come at him one at a time.
Not being an MMA "expert" is not the same as not knowing how to grab, punch, or kick, though (and it's not safe to assume that the two guys *don't* have any training or experience, by the way). Expertly applying a triangle choke is more complicated when 190 pounds of extra guy are grabbing your arms, kicking you, or staving your head in with a fire extinguisher. And sticking a knife in your neck while you're hands are busy with Bachelor Number One would be a pretty simple matter, too.
The dojo (or kwoon) is not the ring, and the ring is not the street.
Let me guess you guys dont train and you're tryna convince yourself you could take on an mma fighter with some buddies well guess what buddy you better pick the right fighter cause if you pick someone who is an EXPERT with his hands idc how many of you there are at least two are getting dropped and the rest arent enough to save you after that you going timber on pavement my friend
“Skilled with violence” is an excellent way to define what we train to do.
Legends say that the men are still beating him, and the girl is still there to cover him.
"With great power comes great responsibility"
I was most disappointed to find out Voltaire said that before uncle ben
Voltaire said many shocking things before it was cool.
I love the fact that this guy can experience the difference between what it's like in China and US. And then can relay that back to us vibrantly so that we can get the same feeling second-hand. Write a book, I'd read tf out of it.
He should also include his time spent as a missionary.
I'm just going to post this comment because Ramsey said he enjoys reading them ❤️
Thanks
This is so wholesome
@@benjobopper5447 awesome. Unless you are talking about bread ! Just kidding no offense intended. 🙂
I am NOT going to post a comment…. because he likes them, also you like that he likes it!! Oh no i have fallen into a paradox….oooooh nooooo
I read an article once, which always stuck with me: interestingly enough you have considerably more chances to be saved from a dangerous situation when there is only one spectator around than when there is a crowd of people. A single person might feel responsible for the outcome and decide to help without much hesitation; while the people in a crowd would hesitate to intervene as everyone is waiting for somebody else to make a move, delegating the responsibility. Eventually no one helps and you are screwed.
Makes you think.
KastaRules crazy
its called the bystander effect. it stems back to a case where a women was attacked and killed in the courtyard of an apartment complex with dozens of her neighbors all witnessing some aspect of the attack and failing to call police or intervene based on the knowledge that others were also witnessing it and assuming somebody else must have called the police. google kitty genovese for the full story.
"the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
@@michaellesak6912 Yes, that's it, the *bystander effect.* There's countless examples happened throughout history. The one you mention is only the tip of the iceberg.
michael lesak This story was proven to be untrue but it’s still a pretty good example
@@ilitardo160 the original newspaper article was highly sensational, but the core story is true. the attack took place over a long time and they made no attempt to be quiet. the killer even drove away and came back to stab her again and rape her as she bled out. only after he drove away a second time did they call the police.
Sometimes, a grandma yelling at the attackers is more efficient than a trained fighter.
Grandma (or her likeness) has saved me on more than one instance.
Don’t forget grandpa
A moral obligation can be argued until the end of time. Personally, if I knew I could assist someone who cannot or will not defend themselves from someone who clearly intends mortal harm to another human and did not, my conscience would not let me forget it for a long time.
Brian m same I saw a 13yo kid getting his teeth kicked in. I yelled and the presumably other kids ran off. Thankfully no harm done on my part
Nobody has an obligation to put themselves in danger by trying to directly to intervene.
But everybody should at least have the morale to call the police.
Nah, the police are bad guys.
Now woud you say police have an obligation to enter a situation with certain knowledge of severe injury, or should they be allowed to wait for backup / the situation to change to limit risk?
@@inquisitorsquish5422 There's no difference between a cop and a gangster thug except that they work for a gang which managed to trick people into thinking it wasnt a band of thieves.
@@HamsterPants522 It is sad if that is how it seems to you or even is in your city or country.
@@imizaru9929 I don't find it sad. I think it's more sad that people worship their slave masters.
Moral obligation - yes
Legal obligation - no, in fact you will be penalized. Stand on your beliefs no matter the cost.
Citizens in medieval England, who mostly lived in rural villages and stuff, had a legal responsibility to chase after a criminal when the "hue and cry" was raised after a crime was committed, such as stealing
I'll be honest, that story was epic and heartwarming initially but when the guy got up and attacked his assailants again it kind of became comedic especially with your delivery. Great video by the way. I liked the moral philosophy at the end especially.
Guy on the ground - THIS IS NOT MY FINAL FORM!!!!!
Best comment on here 😂
honestly in today's day and age it's too dangerous to defend strangers, i remember an article where a woman sued a man for defending her, and actually won, it was kinda awkward to be honest
I am more impressed witht his story telling talent then his knowledge of martial arts he can talk about his dirty underwear for hours and keep his listeners glued. What a legend.
I gotta be honest... I don't fight, or train. I enjoy watching the sport but don't have any pretense or imagine that I'm a fighter.
I have been watching Ramsey for months.
Even calming tones, thoughtful responses... real wisdom. I find I can relate your wisdom to other aspects of life. The world needs more Ramsey Deweys.
Spiderman 2. Greatest Spiderman movie of all TIME!!
Tbh debatable, raimi's trilogy was cool but I enjoy the current spidey who looks like a teenager
@@Knx3k
Sam raimi Spider-Man had a far better story.
Into the spiderverse was 10000x better
@@johntheidiot9046 Yes
@@johntheidiot9046 Visually yeah sure man but just that
Bruh, I love your channel, You are a much needed voice of reason amongst a world of keyboard warriors, arrogance and ignorance. Thank you !!!
Good as always. Finally some intelligent stuff here on utube.
It could be seem as an obligation because it's an internal drive to expose yourself to unnecessary danger in order to protect a greater good. The line between barbarism and civilization is blurry, and the latter is so precious that, in the end, in your death bed, you'll probably wish you had done more to spread goodness and compassion. I believe even littles acts of defiance against the chaos of barbarism give people hope and makes a better future more likely to blossom.
The line between barbarism and civilization is called the English Channel.
Thank you for replying and reading comments, one time i was in some serious pain from medical issues. I was watching your videos trying to find peace, i found it in the advice. It was the video about death. It helped me not be afraid to die if it got worst. Since then i have healed alot and whos to say if i never found peace that id have made it at all!
Thanks for being there.
My Dad taught me - and every one of the thousands of kids that have been through his Scout troop over 30 years - that if you watch an injustice happening and do nothing it's the same as doing that injustice yourself.
This is the answer
What a great , honest , thought provoking and [self] challenging Video
. I do wonder why I , with no fighting skills, or training , love perusing not only your vids but several other combat channels . There is , in my mind an Honesty surrounding physical combat that cannot be found anywhere else , it alludes me to be able to say why .
when you retire from the fighting career, please become a voice over man. you have a terrific voice. clear and expressive.
lovely video
Very valuable video with more kindness feelings...
Thanks for that man who asked the question. He did great job.
So, as always THANK YOU 🙏 Ramsey...❤
That's so powerful... love your channel, glad youtube exist, people need to hear what you have to say, at least I do, thanks
I love your stories.
I've intervened (long ago) when I saw someone being beaten by a bully on a number of occasions. I'd do it again.
U are a seriously wise dude Ramsey. I tend to really listen, truly listen when u make these vids.
"If it's an obligation it's not morality, it's a compulsion."
I've watched a lot of your videos, I find myself agreeing with most things you say, I disagree with very few things you've said but this? I absolutely agree with this sentiment, I have rarely heard something that resonates this much with me.
My few thoughts on the question, because it's really a good one.
First - I don't think that (the way it was posted "as trained martial artist") it does matter if you are capable or not to help if you wish to try.
Second - I completely thing that nobody have the 'moral obligation' to help, moral can be completely different thing based on they way you were raised. Obligation - there is none.
The most important thing - if you wish to help, there is nothing wrong with that - if you feel scared/insecure to act - there is nothing wrong with that ether.
Life happens and we have choices which we can make, sometimes we regret them, sometimes we don't and there are times when we are proud of the action or decisions in our past.
But I would try to analyze the situation and act accordingly where my safety and those around me which I put great value (wife/kids/family/friends etc.) will be the top priority, I'm not such a good Samaritan. If there is little-to-no-risk involved I would try to save anyone even a person who I know deserves it from violence if it crosses the line of which it's becoming dangerous and non-consensual example of consensual violence - two guys start fighting non-consensual and a point where I would interfere the point where one is knocked out and the other continue to beat him.
That said a lot of people don't think when they talk/act that in certain countries or regions such things are very risky, as Ramsey said about China - you become legally obliged to the person you help, this will be a really hard thing for me to comprehend and I'm thankful I don't have to do with stuff like that. In some countries trying to intervene would easily result in quick death - when violent people are usually tied with criminals/organized crime and are not afraid to use lethal force at any given time - being involved would be such a risky move that I think I will be too scared to act.
If we're talking about some developed country, where most of the street violence is between a bully and a wimp and aside from the physical disparity there is nothing else worth considering - anyone (even a old woman or little girl) could easily intervene and de-escalate the whole thing. My favorite video and response to such thing is the ongoing meme just google "repent sinner meme" the dude reaction was amazing and in the same time prevented violence and de-escalated the situation in a flash with a single expression.
I think in Britain it's called "duty of care". My sister once told me a story to explain it: someone had fallen into a cannel, couldn't swim and was drowning. A passer by who was good swimmer was asked to help, but he didn't want to and the man drowned. Court decided he was under no obligation to help. A similar thing happened again, but the passer by was an off duty policeman; he too didn't help. However, the court decided that even though off duty he had a "duty of care" because if his job as police.
The man in the restaurant may have had a duty of care towards anyone in the restaurant (his work colleagues and customers) when at work. I don't know thought, as this story and the one about a dead mouse in bottle of lemonade is about the total of my legal knowledge.
Very good comments, I agree with you and a very interesting experience you had. Thanks for sharing. I was thinking in regards to the merciful woman, not to be culturally insensitive, as I doubt the woman was Christian, but what a Christlike thing to do.
Solid explanation
I will try to keep your words in heart sir, so that whenever I encounter violence, I can do what a person with a good heart and head would do
I heard that to this day, that cycle of those 6 guys beating that one guy up, the girl begging them for mercy, and that guy getting back up and attacking again, is still going on.
I am constantly impressed by your advice. You're a good man.
I remember the public's reaction in "The Incredibles", where people started to protest against superheroes who saved them. X-Men storylines kind of go the same way, except because some mutants with special abilities caused harm to the public, the public wanted all mutants registered, rounded up and put in incarceration camps, and depowered or killed. You'd better do some hard thinking on that one. The problem is more complex when it's an entire country that feels it needs to "save" another country. Just remember that we're all human...and mortal.
Very good question. One that every martial artist can relate to at some point in their lifes i bet
Very well said. I am moved. I am your fan now officially.
I learned a lot from this thank you very much
Another great video on a great topic, kudos to that guy for standing up for that woman.
I questioned watching this because the topic seemed like something I could wrap my head around. Boy was I wrong. Profound video. Thank you.
Interestingly here in Germany you are legally obliged to help people who are in danger. If you fail to do so you can be sued for „Unterlassene Hilfeleistung“ (weird German term, it basically means not providing assistance to someone in need of help). This includes medical emergencies, accidents or attacks.
Though it is important to note that the help provided doesn’t have to be more than what can be expected from one. If someone collapses due to organ failure one can not be expected to treat it as a doctor could, due to their lack of medical expertise. But calling for help or an ambulance should be possible for almost anyone, therefore you are legally obliged to do so.
This can be a littlebit trickier in the case of an attack since it can not be expected of one to put themself in harms way. Usually calling the police is the thing to do, maybe a 200kg male can be expected to stop a 50kg girl from punching her boyfriend this usually is judged on a case to case basis.
Important is that no one has to expose themself to danger to help other people. Same rule goes for airplanes or medics. Make sure to be safe yourself before helping others.
And I think the same applies to the question wether one is morally obliged. If you are able to help without risking a notable injury yourself you are obliged to step in. If it can become dangerous for you, even if there only is a possibility that the attacker carries a knife, you can no longer be expected to intervene
Thanks for really good materials
I love You content
It's sometimes tricky because you can never be sure that you know the full story of what you'd be intervening in and it makes the situation either better or worse. Like seeing a guy getting beaten by another guy, but it turns out the guy getting smacked around just sucker punched a friend of the dude kicking his ass. Or in the case of a guy I once knew, he saw a man shoving this woman around and yelling at her, he went to break it up and then both the man and woman started attacking him. Its one of those situations where if you're going to act, its not a bad thing, just acknowledge that you may not always have all the information.
Seriously just a month ago a small women disarmed a guy with a knife in Melbourne...she was not a martial artist.
We see all these drills and yet she almost magically disarmed him and a few people jumped on him.
@Hater Sensei Grand Master Chosen One AU mate
I had to step over someone begging for help to protect myself from ending up right beside him. I also used to jump between a man beating his wife only for her to turn on me. I got jumped by 9 people in a orphanage too. They cracked my face and stomped my head in.
Getting between spouses is the worst mistake anyone can make. You go after the male to protect her, then she comes after you. Next thing you know, they're both on top of you.
Krane That’s real. 👀💯
@@krane15 Yeah, you need to take the woman out first, she's got the smaller health bar. Once she's down you can take the guy.
You shouldn't put yourself in danger. Always weigh the options and in most cases it will probably be out of your control.
We aren't super humans we won't come out unscathed if we pick a fight with the wrong guys
But personaly if I saw a situation were someone was attacked and I felt I could handle it I would try to help
>in most cases it will probably be out of your control
Lol, absolute bullshit. There's literally no reason for you to suppose that other than being a massive coward.
>We aren't super humans we won't come out unscathed if we pick a fight with the wrong guys
Yeah and you will die if you don't react immediately to the wrong disease. That doesn't mean that you call an ambulance for every caugh. Most attackers are not assassins that are armed to the teeth and willing to fight themselves out of every situation. Most attackers give up the moment they are confronted by ANY third party. Not to speak of being confronted by a mean looking guy with biceps veins and cauliflower ears.
The way you said "With great power comes great responsibility" was epic.
I just follow my heart and do the right thing what ever happens happens no regrets
You have the right idea.
If I'm going to Train for Martial Arts
I might as well use it for the well-being of others
@Alvin Hill True
Sounds like my first wife She was trained in the Marital Arts and decided to use it for the benefit of others....
@@OoohAaah6603 how? and what happened afterwards? is she still alive?
I was crippled as a child in the 60's. I suffered a great deal of other of kids making fun of me. The embarrassment and shame was overwhelming. I vowed if i ever could walk again i would never allow people to harass others with physical or mental disability. When i began high school i was able to walk. i started tai kwon do classes. I grew strong and proficient in fighting. From then on i protected the defenseless against bullies. I am now 63 and still fight those who bully or try to harm the defenseless. Most recently i to used a choke hold on a drunk 33 yr old man trying to harm a senior citizen. Protecting others has also felt like a moral obligation. Thanku. NJ
@stormy weather very admirable of u. Its tragic so many people would have ignored what was happening to that child. I applaud u for ur bravery.
Such a sage advice. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you so much for sharing this amazing story. We should have more martial arts channels with philosophical disputes.
Wow excellent video sir. great comments and questions posed about this issue. One of the major issues that I go over with people when teaching about this issue is to make sure that you know the situation you are getting yourself into. The last thing you want to do is possibly hurt good people that maybe defending against the "victim". Sometimes the person who appears to be the victim may not be. Although I would also advocate for helping your fellow man in many situations I say please be very careful about the situation you get yourself involved in.
Similar situation with girl pleading to two tough guys to stop slapping around a dude who wouldn't stand back after a stupid argument in a row for pizza happened to me. They actually started being aggressive to her as well but didn't touch her. They were scary looking guys and I felt I needed to do something but also was trying to think and also I was scared. I started approaching cautiously thinking about trying to talk them out of it and pull the guy away from them but luckily the guy came to his senses forgot about his pride and decided to remove himself from the situation and that was the end of it. These guys were clearly criminals who had experience with these kind of situations. One of them was controlling the crowd of people eating in the pizza place while the other was focusing on the victim. Fucked up situations can happen. We will react how we react, logic and rationality rarely play the role here.
It depends on the country and your citizenship/nationality. I remember Firas Zahabi talking about this one angry man who was threatening him in the US. He said that he would not use violence in another country as his work life depends on travel. As a non-citizen if he gets arrested, things might get tough for his MMA coaching work. Though back in Canada he would use violence to defend himself. Or possibly a bystander being attacked too? Just another angle on the matter.
Ramsey if I may. I don't want my earlier comment to be misconstrued. So I will try another approach. What is moral obligation? It's a decision one makes as to an act being considered right or wrong. But who decides what is right or wrong. A dictator who kills consider his act right. But we may consider his act wrong. Is the dictator morally obligated to kill others? When you feel morally obligated to defend someone, you do so because you have decided to do so is the right thing to do. In the real world it may not be the wisest decision. Because we all value right and wrong in light of our experience. Trained warriors don't feel its a moral obligation. They consider it an HONOR to defend that person. Honor is a state of mind. Moral obligation is a question. If you have to decided if an act is morally right or wrong you have lost the battle. But IN YOUR HEART you know an act is wrong, you resolve all fear, all hesitation. It's not should you act. You must act. This is the honor I speak of. This is the honor that will make your enemy salute you even in death. This is RESPECT I speak of. When Bonhoeffer climb the gallows he did so honorably. And he went down in history as deservingvof respect. When two boxers beat each other in the ring and both did so honorably, what happens in the end, regardless of who won or lost? They embrace. They kiss each others cheek. They display RESPECT. Ramsey there are parts of the world where the inhabitants don't have anything. Barely food. And even though they have NOTHING that we can see or appreciate-- there are two things they have in abundance: Honor and respect. And for these they will willingly die for. And for these they are against all odds usually victorious. So who would you have defend you? Rodin the thinker who decides what is right or wrong? Or the fighter who is honored to defend your life, regardless of moral obligation. Several years ago a prostitute I knew was killed. She was not my friend. Just somebody I knew from walking up and down the street. I personally took it upon myself to track the guy down and rock his world. Then told police to come and arrest him. I certainly wasn't morally obligated. She was dead. And yet I felt honored to risk my life with this drug dealer. Had I lost i would have still earned RESPECT. In the end no matter your station in life, you will not be judged on moral obligation. We all will be judge on honor and respect. Thanks for offering such questions Ramsey. And now I must go out and water my garden.
I appreciate how you take the time to think about what you're going to say before you say it. I think more of us should try to be more precise in our speech as JBP says rather than littering our sentences with "uhm" and "like"
Great video ramsey
Love your videos man. Wish you were in the US so I could train at your gym.
I recently discovered your channel and have really enjoyed a lot of your content. This to date has been my favorite of your videos. Especially the discourse about moral and obligation. Very thought provoking and you are an exceptional story teller. Great Stuff.
Totally situational for me. If you like to intervene that is ego. But if there is absolutely nobody left and the police will be too late that is different. I missed my cab driving shift, went to the bar with my pepper spray on me. This man robbed the bar, I called the police and I pepper sprayed him in the face. When the police showed up, he told me "I don't want to know your name. I don't want you on the report".
I have been on the 'aggressor side' of this. A dude I had never seen jumped on my friend and I one hand choked him and threw him on the ground. Turned out they knew each other, and it wasn't a real attack. I apologized to him. But for years he would try to pick a fight with me. I was in the Marines at the time. It was Frodo picking a fight with Brock Lesner. After two years of him trying to pick a fight with me I had finally had it. I 'Darth Vadered' him, picking him up by his neck and slamming him on the wall with one hand. That finally got the message through and he left me alone. I used to be a lot stronger obviously.
You are an excellent human being! Thanks for this, and all your other vids too!
Am I my brother's keeper? Of course! In the US you have a fundamental right to self defense and coming to the aid of another is called self defense in the third person - you can defend another as if you were defending yourself.
A moral obligation is something you feel you should do in an altruistic way, either based on your beliefs, empathy & the feeling of guilt you would have after if you didn't help when you knew you could. If you can just watch, or walk right past without feeling bad about it, you're not morally obligated, it's down to the individuals.
Very good analysis of this issue! Culture and even your own upbringing makes a huge difference. It is important to consider the consequences of helping. You could also become a victim.
As a police officer we teach rookie officers that they are no longer a citizen and a simple fight is no longer simple. EVERY incident has a gun and other weapons - we have brought them with us. If we lose, the victor now can take our weapons and use them against us or others. The same applies to people who are "good Samaritans", even if they do not use the weapon they may have, it is still there.
i think it depends on the situation, but i could never ignore someone who gets beaten and cant defend themselves.
Great video as always man, covering an interesting topic. It reminds me of a point brought up in a Japanese Animated series. The Protagonist was chosen to inherit power not because he was Superhumanly able but because he had the heart to help. So he was given power to become a super hero.
My Hero Academia ? I haven't watched any episodes yet.
Opening monologue of the priest in Boondock Saints always gets me.
Learning that lesson about charity and compulsion was an eye opener growing up. Sad there are so many adults that never learn.
Sometimes we defend others out of Fear.,
Sometimes as You Turn Your Back, You Are Next.
If you have gone out of your way to be prepared to take action to defend yourself and your Integrity, It is difficult to just Walk Away.
Much Easier trying to stay far from these Situations
It’s your decision to intervene. There’s no obligation to but if you feel you can help and you have the will to help go for it.
Feeling the compulsion to do so means your heart is in the right place. But you're not a piece of shit for being too afraid or worried about legal consequences.
I'm not sure if anyone will read this, but this hits home for me really hard. I was at a restaurant a few years ago with some friends and I saw a waitress get harassed by these drunk guys and grabbed at the waist, demanding a picture. I wanted to step in so badly, but a few questions came to mind:
What if they have a weapon?
What if they start a fight and I get arrested for assault? - as a black man in the US, that's an even higher risk
There were so many questions that came to mind, and I feel that I was more afraid of the consequences that could ensue after defending that girl than the actual guys themselves, as I have some martial arts experience. However, a huge part of me still feels ashamed that I didn't step into the situation, and I feel embarrassed at myself for not doing so.
There are no easy answers, my friend.
@@RamseyDeweythank you. It's something that's kept me to before. I just hope I don't freeze up when it really counts
@@RamseyDewey also, I've been watching your channel for years now. I'd love to make a free beat for it if you're interested 😅😀
Fascinating topic. I've often wondered the same thing. Over here in the UK, the self defense laws are quite vague, but mostly reasonable. Pre-emptive strikes are also allowed with reasonable justification...but there is still the chance of jail time, which makes me pensive about the whole thing.
There's also the huge risk of getting stabbed too...
@@jamesrowlands1943 Yep. The stakes for getting close can be quite dangerous. Although it does depend where you are. The London bubble has a way worse issue with knives than anywhere else in the country. But it's still a possibility.
Coach Dewey I've got a question:
I REALLY want to visit China, or even hopefully work there. I really love Chinese culture, history and philosophy. I don't know if I'm qualified to call myself "a Daoist" but Daoism is what I practise and believe. For the past year I've been learning Mandarin - my reading is getting pretty good but my speaking/listening isn't very good yet.
What I'm worried about though is this rule that you can be culpable for someone's medical bills and get sued if you help someone at the scene of an accident; and if you get involved if you see an injustice on the street like a woman getting verbally or physically assaulted then you are probably not going to be treated favourably and can go to prison for it.
The reason I'm worried is because I'm someone who can't help themselves from getting involved if I see an injustice happening or someone in danger, and I can't stop myself from giving someone assistance if they're injured or they have an accident.
It's just instinct for me, it's how I was raised by my father (who I saw step in to help or defend strangers when I was a kid and who worked as a paramedic for over 25 years) and it's my moral code, as well as a compulsion. I know couldn't live with myself if I didn't step in to help and the few times I didn't do it when I was a teenager still really bother me and I find myself ruminating on them sometimes.
How do I reconcile these two things: my need/compulsion to step in and help people with my deep desire to visit, or hopefully even live in, Zhong Guo/China?
Any advice would mean the world to me. It's the only thing stopping me from doing it and it's been my dream to see or live in China since I was a kid - I had read the four classics by the age of 14 and the five Confucian classics by the age of 18.
Please Ramsey I need your knowledge "For The Streetz".
Thanks, you're a legend & I'm a longtime fan of your channel. All the best to you.
I have heard of a story where a guy saved an unknown woman from drowning and then she tries to sue that guy for sexual assault as he touched her without her concent to save her from drowning... Helping someone can lead to you getting in trouble sometimes.
I once tried to rescue a young lady from her underwear and virginity but instead the ungrateful women called the police... That's it for me no more mister nice guy.
Thank you. Now I don't have to help anyone ever again, but someone in the youtube comments once heard a "story".
When I was a skinny 19 year old teenager I was walking down a South London Street at night on the way to a party. I saw a woman with 4 big roid-looking guys getting shouted at by one, I stopped and watched from the other side of the street and when the guy punched her and knocked her flat I ran over - partly to just see if she was ok cos she hit the ground hard. They obviously saw me as something to take their aggression from the situation out on and although I tried to fight back I got floored and took an absolute beating (probably should have just covered up instead of trying to fight my way back to my feet). I picked myself up after and carried on towards the party and on the way a group of people stopped me, told me I was covered in blood and got me a taxi to hospital.
At A&E the staff told me "you shouldn't have got involved"
Aged 20 I was at a festival. I saw a girl getting screamed at in her face by a guy. This time I didn't hang around and got in the middle. The guy calmed down and was being cool, then while we were talking sucker-punched me with a headbutt, broke my nose. We had a brief fight that got spilt up quickly.
I had to stay overnight in hospital after having an operation to reset my nose (the first op with a local anaesthetic, which the doctor offered to let me try without anaesthetic so it could be ruled out quicker, didn't work). After I came round on the ward whenever new nurses came in shift they're ask me how it happened.
After I told them, again and again, they'd all say "well you know what to do next time now, don't get involved".
In my mid-20s my mate was walking home with me from a party (I was really really drunk & he didn't want me to walk it alone on a Friday night). I saw a guy red in the face screaming in a girl's face, she was cowering against a wall, another male, I assume a friend, was with them doing nothing. As we walked past I purposely walked between them, forcing the guy to step back, and as I did I said to him "leave her alone". Maybe 20 services later slightly further along the road my mate looked behind us and said "Phil look!". I turned and the guy was bouncing up to me with his hands up in a guard wanting to fight. Even though I was REALLY drunk my training carried me: I kept circling to his left, faded out of range of every punch he threw (it wasn't difficult) and I only threw one punch back for each one he threw at me. Eventually he gave up and walked off with the girl & guy.
On the way home the police stopped us, the guy who'd chosen to fight me had called the police. I explained everything exactly as it had happened. The police were really great and were cool about it; they took a statement saying I had been the one who was assaulted and I didn't want to press charges and they gave us a lift home.
When the dropped us off the two officers who drove us said to me before I got out "now, next time you see a situation like this I advise you don't get involved and just call us"
I'm 31 now and these aren't the only times this has happened. But, despite all this, despite the advice from people:
If I see an injustice happening that I can do something to influence, if I see one-sided violence or threats of violence, or if I see bullying:
I WILL ALWAYS GET INVOLVED.
AND YOU SHOULD TOO, TO THE FURTHEST EXTENT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF.
Imagine how those situations had of progressed if I hadn't gotten involved. Imagine if it was the woman in each of these not me, with my (admittedly pretty average level of) training and my ability to take a punch.
And the thing I regret isn't the times when I got involved - despite being hospitalised, despite not making it to that party, despite getting a broken nose, desire the stay in hospital, despite the fact my nose still isn't perfectly straight & my right nostril hardly takes in any air now , despite thinking I was going to get arrested, despite everything - what I regret are the times I didn't get involved, not the times I did.
Anyway to anyone who'se actually made it to here, thanks for reading.
An obligation is a debt. A debt is something you owe. Does a trained martial artist owe some person an aiding defense? The answer is no. The expense to him or herself could be serious injury, medical and other expenses and possibly death. You are right Sifu/Sensei it is a choice.
Sometimes, anyone saying stop, is enough. Sometimes, it isn’t. But just hearing the word stop, changes the situation. If no one says stop, then the people attacking, rely on their own senses to determine when to stop, which is either exhaustion, one of their party saying that is enough, fear of being caught, or violent intervention from others.
i've been an enforcer from the age of 5.3 and god has protected me with guidence of helping others in various situations by various endeavours through lifes walk. i'm now 64
In France, fighter or not, if you choose to ignore your duty to rescue, you can get up to a 75000 euro fine assorted with 5 years of imprisonment.
Brazil is similar, but depending on the situation you are legally obliged to just call and wait there for an ambulance with the dude. Fines get pretty big too.
On the couple of occasions where I have intervened to defend a stranger, I think that I ended up defending their right not to pay their drug debt!
Yeah Ive been meaning to thank you for that... . Thanks.
I stopped a bar fight that had been going on for 20 minutes, I'm trained in jiu-jitsu and jkd, I didn't want to get involved, the bar tender got clipped trying to stop it, female bar tender. Three guys tried to stop it as well but they couldn't get the guy off the other, I took the responsibility into my hands, rear naked choked him and took him to the ground, but didn't hit, told him to stop, another guy swung at me I parried him and pushed him back, they threw him out. Even though I stopped it, I was told to never do that again by the establishment. Yes you can make that decision but they aren't always grateful. I however got a bucket of beer out of it, by the guys friends.
I think that the establishment was just afraid you would end up making it bigger, and end up giving bad publicity, and maybe some sort of negative attention that would make more fights. They are wrong, whoever run the place should have really taken a better look at the situation, and maybe even hire you as a bouncer or smth. Surely what I would have done
20 min bar fight? That’s triathlete cardio, should get those guys in some contracts.
I say 20 minutes but most of that was arguing, then pushing, then swinging, then arguing, then swinging, then it ended up on one guy getting pinned against an atm machine and get the crap beat out of him, bleeding all over the place for about 4 to 5 minutes. That place didn't want to call the cops either.
Uncle coach Ramsey :)
Definatly agree no obligation for fighter, just remember one thing from social behavior. More people are around, than individuals have more tendency to count on actict of the rest (Bystander effect). So remember it is propably better to take action and not wait for someone.
As a somewhat longtime MA you dont owe anyone anything. That said i would help in whatever way I could - intervene physically, via voice or call police.
You explained the bystander effect. I read about it not too long ago
I once saw old action stars define what is hero. I thought about it my self and my conclusion is. The difference between warrior and soldier is also connected to it. HERO is someone who do right, always, no matter what the conseuquences are
Here in Brazil there is a law aspect called "Third party legitimate defense" that is, acting reasonably immediately and proportionately to a criminal violation that happened to someone else other than you. So, here in Brazil it would be perfectly honest and good to act as soon as the opportunity existed, but, nothing obligate someone to put himself in danger, and one should be careful to act proportionately to the harm and danger involved.
Well done, young man.
I like the voice.. It's so smooth.
It's hard enough to claim self defense when you are attacked (and prove it), let along if you are defending a complete stranger. If you hurt the "bad guy", you will be in a LOT of trouble. Besides, how do you know who the "bad guy" is?
So true.
Actually depends on where you are, in my state defending others does count as self defense. Js , I am aware that's not the case every where
It's also harder to prove that it wasn't self defense, which they must also do btw. Technically it does not actually have to be self defense , unless it's provable beyond doubt that it wasn't ,you can claim that.
Best advice pay attention to the actual laws concerning that in your area, and honestly if you live somewhere you don't have that right I recommend moving lol
You beat em both up to be sure.
Thank you for using your forced time at home for answering more of our questions. I appreciate it. For the next Q&A: What do you think of Hawaiian Kempo?
Do they use pineapples as a weapon ? 😀
You do know Hawaiian Kempo is just mma? The Pit Master doesn't do bs.
@@daniel-zh9nj6yn6y
You haven't learned self defense against fresh fruit?
Hey M. Dewey, great talk, I love your channel.
Ifound myself in a similar situation a few years ago. I've found that sometimes simply to intervene and sieze the "control" of the situation will suffice to break-up the fight. I was downtown where I came across a fight between Homeless people. One was attacking two others (for their spot i think). He was chasing off a younger one who was trying to circle back to get while also trying to fight an older man who was trying to fend him off with "snake style" eye pokes. The agressor had a friend who was heckling the passing crowd. The crowd was more shocked than spectator. The agressor and the old man are still at a 2m (6ft sorry i'm canadian (haha i said i was sorry)), so i get closer while calling the police. The agressor then drops the old man with a hailmary style hook. and tries to fend off the younger one trying to help the old man. At this point I decide to go in and step between the agressor and his victims. Now, I'm not an intimading guy, far from it; i'm 5'7 (i say 5'8 when i'm dating) and the other was way bigger. I'm clearly posturing, but with the confidence that with my 15+ years of judo training will at the very least able me to protect myself if things go bad. Everybody, the crowd, the heckler and the agressor stopped. has I told him to stop and leave, a lady came out from the crowd to help the old man up and at least two other people joined me behind my "line in the sand". The agressor than left and the police arrived shortly after.
What Imean to say by this is, as you said in an other video, Streetfights are chaotic by nature; whereas sport fights have codes and legislations. hence They are more "predictable", we know there are going to be two fighters, there is a set number of rounds, at the end there is a winner and the crowd cheers. My point is that when an average person knows what to expect, he knows how to behave. Which is not the case of a street fight where to crowd is shocked and paralyse. So by making a stand, by seizing the control of the situation, you set an exemple to the rest of the peopole around you, it then enables them to make that stand with you.
This brings me to a question, Coach. It's about a similar issue and about a subject I know you love, superheroes. I wanted to know your take on Vigilantism. We can illustrate the topic with the case of Pheonix Jones, a real live "super"hero. Essentially, Jones was a professionnal MMA fighter that decided to don a Mask and costume and intervene in the streetfights of Seatle. I think at some point he also formed a briggade of crime "prevention". It's a real story, here is a link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Jones . I think he stopped his activities in 2014, but there are other people who do similar things and identifying themselves with the hyper-altruism mouvement.
So oubviously I want to continnue and deepan the current conversation and ask where can someone go to far, at what point have you crossed the line where you can no longuer rightfully call on moral obligation to justify yourself? So ya, Masked vigilantes!
I can't wait to hear from you,
Yours,
Phil
P.S. Can you do a fantastic fight review of captain America VS GSP :D
P.P.S. You dont have to read aloud the first part of the comment, It's only anecdotal
Good thoughts.
Hi Ramsey. I love your channel, it's one of my favorites. One question, I'm almost 40, but a want to be able to do the Split... but I can only open my legs like 100°. Can I do it if I train enoght? Thanks!
Yes you can. Just stretch every day.
Let's go! You got this!
Worked for JCVD in the movie Kickboxer, a couple of pulleys and some rope and you're all set...