Love your channel, Clair! It led me to the Anne Boleyn Experience, new friends and a way for me to retire without insanity. My husband, never into travel decided he had to come and meet me. Now I get to go on Philip's tours and then a week traveling through history with my hunny! We went up to Loch Ness and stayed at the monastery in Fort Williams, so beautiful! So thank you !!!
Its absolutely wonderful watching the truth seeking for the mutual love for Anne Boleyn. Her life is kept alive through the centuries and I am sure that the work that is being done here will be a baton of knowledge for generations ahead.
Always love having the portrait of Anne Boleyn in the background. It's a nice touch and I'm sure Anne appreciates being privy to conversations about her.
If it is her. Some argue it is Mary Tudor's the younger sister of Henry VIII. Her married name was Brandon. They believe the B stands for Brandon instead of Boleyn.
Thanks Claire, very interesting, something different, a real treat 🌞 Amanda is a delight. More interview discussions/ collaborations in the future please 🤓 📚
The fact that Henry married Jayne Seymour 11 days after Anne’s “execution” speaks volumes. He for all intents and purposes Henry murdered Anne. I don’t swallow the innocent and Jayne Seymour “myth”. I can’t believe she didn’t have any idea what was going on. Jayne played the courtly game well.
Many thanks Claire for this fascinating interview. Amanda Glover gave an interesting account of her research so far. What also came through in the interview was Amanda's determination to unravel the mystery behind the correspondence. Great Vlog.
Happy St Patrick's weekend to you Claire, to Tim, your furry family and to everyone in this community all around the world. Go green, be lucky and be merry ☘️ 🇮🇪 ☘️ 🍻 ☘️ 🌈 ☘️
What is the history of Catherine of Aragon's final letter, I wonder. How does it compare with this one as far as copies and where it was found? This is all so fascinating! Thank you both for your research and pursuit of truth in Anne Boleyn's cause.
I think it's such a shame that Henry had to erase all traces of her. He did it so well that she will always remain a mystery. Who knows? Maybe one day some unexpected piece of evidence will be discovered just like the falcon badge. No one expected that, but there it is.
"I think it's such a shame that Henry had to erase all traces of her...." In my opinion, this is tacit proof of his guilt. He *knew* Anne was innocent, he *knew* he committed murder. That's why he couldn't stand to be reminded of her. I know the same would be true if he had believed without any doubt that she'd betrayed him (if he was also obsessed with her). But come on, we've seen the records of the kangaroo court. Only a complete idiot, which for all his faults Henry was not, would have believed any of that. No, he knew. (And I think we all wish we had a time machine, even if only to observe)
@@p.s.shnabel3409It would have been really difficult and emotional to observe it first hand. To know she was being railroaded so he could move on to the next woman, her execution would have been heartbreaking. I would not have wanted to be there.
@@Grace-tc1lqYou are so right! Elizabeth must have had several layers of trauma. It is amazing that she grew up to be as well grounded in reality as she seemed to have been. Don't get me wrong, I have issues with several of her rulings. But, oh, she could have been a true monster and it's a miracle that she wasn't.
Whatever you think about Anne her rise in court, and what happened to Katherine, the charges against her were bogus and Henry murdered her. He might not have swung the sword but his hands are stained with her blood.
It would be so fabulous if that letter was Anne’s. Having real things from the past makes the past more “present”. This is not the same level, but the meaning is there; I found my old library card that I got when I was a little kid! It was a blast from the past! Oh the happy memories. Getting that library card was my ticket to the world! ❤
Oh wow, Ms. Amanda certainly has my attention. Why didn't anyone else think to study the watermarks on the letter, or did they? I'm pretty sure it was the Cotton Library where Dr. Owen Emerson said that Cromwell's book of hours was recently found so I wonder what else might be in that library under our noses that survived the fire!!! I took a random public survey once as to whether Anne's letter from the tower was authentic and about 80% said yes. Amanda may want to discuss a possible important correlation with Sandra Vasoli regarding one of her discoveries, which was that Sandra found a contemporary notation in the Papal library by a witness to King Henry's death that on his deathbed, he expressed possible remorse about Anne's execution which might directly correlate with the statement in "Anne's letter" where the letter almost threatens Henry re his having to meet his maker some day and will face what he's done. So if Anne had dictated or written that letter saying that Henry would come upon that day, then he did, and faced his remorse, I've always wondered whether she did author that letter and Henry did read it before he died...and maybe he ordered the letter hidden. Who would do the hiding??? This may have followed with some frantic, secret rewriting of it to capture what she said to him for perpetuity!!! I find the annotation on the Stowe copy just fascinating. You REALLY have to wonder why this letter didn't pop up in the 1700s or 1800s, but in the very early 1600s, or even earlier, if we're able to date the other copies. The earlier a date we can find correlating to these copies, combined with Amanda's clear logic of why it would even be forged, the better, and the more authentic this possible "multiple-times-rewritten" letter begins to have some UMF to it !! Consider Tracy Borman's recent discoveries about how much QE1 actually expressed her adoration for her mother and displayed her furniture. Perhaps in some way, this mindset may have been preserved somehow under King James! I believe that Amanda's angle of researching the handwriting and trying to identify a scribe or two or three, might be a good path to follow, though a needle in the haystack. I wonder whether Amanda has discussed what's she's found with Tracy Borman or Suzannah Lipcsomb. Maybe she could even discuss with Dr. Emerson if we have any idea or whether it's worth researching just how Thomas Cromwell's book of hours ended up on the Cotton Library as a parallel, and how the other letter ended up in the Stowe collection. These giant authentic institutions are not known for storing fakes. Could also try to focus research on just what else went on inside the tower during Anne's dark waiting period - who was transcribing for whom, etc. And lastly, perhaps researching bits of the exact phrasing in the letter - is that phrasing or handwriting style used in anything else, or anything else we do have from Anne, which is not much. Would the transcriber of such a letter from Anne in the tower have transcribed anything for someone else in the tower at the time Anne was there? I'm sure prisoners were not each assigned their own personal scribes!! Surely they transcribed for others, if there were scribes; or, if only Anne was scribed a "last letter" among all the prisoners, surely it was a known scribe assigned to a special transcription! Who might have witnessed any transcription? Plus, because they recently found one of Anne's wooden falcons from a private collection on auction - who else is harboring things "of Anne" ??!!?? Sorry this is long, but I too, am obsessed with this letter. :)
Thank you very much for your interest. Just a small correction- Cromwell’s book of hours was “discovered” in Trinity College, Cambridge, not the Cotton Library. It’s existence has long been known about but it was only identified as having belonged to Cromwell recently, the discovery being made by the Hever Castle team. The story of Henry’s deathbed remorse is indeed interesting. It was raised by Bishop Burnet in his book first published in 1679, and as you say, Sandra Vasoli has researched it recently. The problem with this story is that Andre Thevet who reported the alleged regret of Henry, was not present at the time. He was simply reporting what he claimed to have been told. It is very much hearsay. It would be nice to think that Henry did regret some of his terrible crimes, but even if Thevet was honest in his reporting, the story could have been embellished or exaggerated. It may well be a question of “Chinese whispers”.
@@amandaglover9282 Hi Amanda! Nice to hear from you, wow! You're so right! I had my libraries mixed up. Nonetheless, my angle was wondering how they got there. I had not yet heard of the name Adre Thevet, but wouldn't it be curious to wonder if he UNDER-exaggerated his report, or it was played down, so as not to reveal the King might be weak in any way. I can just see him ordering it hidden or destroyed like everything else about Anne. I think he may have let his circle convince him she betrayed him, but knew deep down inside she did not, and the ganging up against her was easier to tolerate than no heir at that point. Of course, we can whisper until the cows come home but it's fun to try to think of all possibilities together. I also wonder what QE1 had from her mother in her private stash that none of us will ever know about. I've been working on my family's genealogy for a decade, and Lord Burghley was my ancestors' attorney, and one of his distant ancestors again, our attorney, then family member, in the states. If only I had a grandparent to ask, ha. I wish you much luck in your research and please do share as you discover. I'll be a puppy in a cookie shop waiting :))
Wonderful interview with Amanda Glover--thank you, Claire and Amanda. I read Anne's presumably dictated letter and the watermark history--thank you for the link. The watermark observations are brilliant! The wording of the letter certainly seems (to me, at least) to comport with what could logically be Anne's interpretation of the situation she found herself in. From a modern day point of view (again, mine), I believe Anne knew she was toast, as was Henry's eternal soul. Elizabeth I was her revenge!
She was in complete turmoil at the time, fearing execution but possibly hoping for an annulment of her marriage and some form of exile from court, much as Katherine of Aragon. She may well have known that the traditional type of pleading
@@amandaglover9282 Thank you for your response, Amanda. Claire posted a "What if..." video about two months ago in response to Shane-Flanagan's query, "What if Anne Boleyn had not been executed?" The short answer was that there were too many possible complications that could have arisen from Anne's continued existence. Henry wanted a "clean break" following Katherine's death and his impending marriage to Jane Seymour. I agree that Anne's approach in the letter makes sense from her viewpoint and knowledge of her husband. And he could be quite intractable, that's for sure!
Was a great interview thank you so much ,,,,i wish you would have read the letter to us maybe a follow up. love hearing your take on this fascinating subject.
According to our family legend, Anne wasn't allowed to write to Henry, but on her insisting she was able to dictate it. But Cromwell never gave it to Henry.
Hello! I have a couple of questions. When you were looking at the Manuscripts- did you come across any letters from Queen Elizabeth I talking about any of the Norreys family or Lady "Black Crow"? Have you come across any documents from the Norrey's family at all? Was Henry Norris mentioned in any of Anne's letters?
Does Mary Magdalene College at Oxford University have any Manuscripts that you can attempt to match the handwriting to? The "forger" was obviously educated- and if they were that close, they were nobility.
Hi, I have not seen the original of the letter that Elizabeth wrote to “Mine own Crow”. That was written in 1597, many years after the period that I was investigating re Anne. I believe that the original is in the Folger Library.
Thank you Amanda.I had to ask because I am descended from Henry Norreys' and that also makes Anne my 2nd cousin many times removed. Claire, that is why I asked my questions. Lol
Oh ladies! This was fabulous andnit makes me want to know so much more. It does break tour heart at the thought, the possibility of Henry throwing the original into the fire though doesn't it?
It is pure supposition of course, but if Anne did write the letter and Henry did see it, if Cromwell had convinced him of Anne’s guilt, I think he would have been angered by the letter. If he knew the case was pure fabrication, the letter may have made him think again for a while, but either way he would have wanted it destroyed.
🇬🇧 I think Elizabeth 1 would have been pretty keen on obtaining anything to do with her mother. We know how fiercely intelligent she was & i can imagine her digging into old caches of books or papers, old boxes of papers stored away from many people from her fathers day, Hoping maybe to find even the smallest reference to her mother Anne She also had William Cecil who i always visualise being able to lay his hands on the most obscure of Curiosities & perhaps personal papers of those who like Elizabeths mother, were also beheaded by her father. Perhaps she sought out Cromwells papers to delve into what was said about her mother She must have known Cromwells Ability to trump up charges & his interviews with countless persons in order to make any charges stick. Maybe the origional letter that Anne may have dictated ( if indeed it was associated with Cromwell) was found by Elizabeths researchers & she retained it for herself ? Could have had it copied for safety reasons & those copies were of the one that survived Until present day. Its curious & interesting. I think Elizabeth would have wanted anything associated or remotely related to her mother found ! Any reminder for her to keep as a momento of the mother she lost. Anyway Thank you for an interesting topic. I wonder if any of Elizabeths documents, letters or writings may have contained any clues to this mysterious letter? Peace to All 🇬🇧👧
It must be so frustrating to not be able to get your hands on information that you know is available. Four months since the cyber attack and you still can't get in. I'd be pulling my hair out. Hopefully the museum will be available soon.
I wonder if the records wound up in the files of foreign ambassadors and the Vatican Library? They seem to have got their hands on quite a few documents of Henry VIII's court.
There are so many places they could be, if they ever existed. However my fear is that any records relating to this that we do not know about already have been destroyed.
Hello, I have a family link that I wish to research but have run out of resources and hope someone can recommend something that goes beyond what is typically available online or published sources. The connection is the marriage of Thomas Payne with Elizabeth Boleyn, Anne’s 1st cousin. Thomas and one of the Beddingfields had the custody of princess Elizabeth during the reign of Mary. Thomas was from Itteringham near Blickling and he descends from the Chief Butler, John Payn (d. 1402) of Wymondham and Helhoughton Norfolk, a family close to the Butlers of Ireland.
Do you think that the writings that Lord Burley obtained were saved by him to one day give to Lady/ Queen Elizabeth? Queen Elizabeth really relied on Lord Burley for guidance and as a protector. It would seem to me, once she became Queen, she would want to see what was there of her mother that hadn't been destroyed.
Thank you for this interview. How brilliant to figure out that watermarks can be used to date the age of the paper itself. As an armchair sleuth I can think of at least two other reasons why someone might have forged the content of this letter: 1. Politics, i.e. to prove that Anne Boleyn was innocent and/or that Henry was an unreasonable killer. I don't know, though, who would have wanted to spread this kind of message. I don't know enough about the political landscape of the time - would this have been something the Catholic church might have been interested in doing? They certainly would have had people with the education, skills and connections necessary to pull this off. But then, if they were behind it, how did it take decades to be even mentioned? 2. To garner favor with Elizabeth. In that case the original forgery would have been made during her life-time and was meant for her to lay hands on. If I remember correctly, Elizabeth walked a very careful path of trying to rehabilitate her mother one one hand while not maligning her father on the other. I can imagine an ambitious person cooking up a plot involving a forged letter from Elizabeth's mother, showing Anne in a very positive way - while still in keeping with the known facts. But if that's the case, same question as the first scenario: why did this letter only become known so much later? And also, wouldn't the way Henry is being addressed potentially cross the line with Elizabeth? - - - Like you, I too would like to think that Anne wrote (or dictated) the original. The injustice of her death makes me wish that she had at least this much dignity left to her, the chance to address her murderer and correct him. And I hope that her daughter knew of this letter, it would have helped her better understand what happened and potentially help deal with her trauma. - - - Thank you again to the both of you. I deeply appreciate the time and effort you take to present us with the findings. And your honesty, admitting freely which parts are substantiated facts and which are educated guesses. This is research done right.
Thank you very much for your comments. Your two proposed scenarios would have given some sort of benefit to the forger if the letter had been produced at the time of its writing rather than apparently being hidden away for decades. It would not have been Catholic propaganda as the Catholics were against Anne, who was a reformer. If it was a forgery made during Elizabeth’s lifetime and given to her it could have led to some form of reward for the forger. However, I believe that I have established that the letter that I was studying was written after Elizabeth’s death in 1603.
I too have Mary Boleyn as a direct (19th step from Mary & Henry VIII's daughter). Having learned this later in my life, I am now very fascinated with all things Tudor. We thank god for Mary; without her endurance, we would not be here! I often wonder how many descendants can be measured.
@@anneboleynfiles You are right, I meant the modern painting that appears as a presentation before I clicked to play the video. Sorry that my comment seemed a bit abrupt. I didn't mean it in that way. I greatly appreciate the content of your videos, but I was confused by that historically surprising image of her. 😏🙂
Love your channel, Clair! It led me to the Anne Boleyn Experience, new friends and a way for me to retire without insanity. My husband, never into travel decided he had to come and meet me. Now I get to go on Philip's tours and then a week traveling through history with my hunny! We went up to Loch Ness and stayed at the monastery in Fort Williams, so beautiful! So thank you !!!
Its absolutely wonderful watching the truth seeking for the mutual love for Anne Boleyn. Her life is kept alive through the centuries and I am sure that the work that is being done here will be a baton of knowledge for generations ahead.
Always love having the portrait of Anne Boleyn in the background. It's a nice touch and I'm sure Anne appreciates being privy to conversations about her.
Most unlikely!
@user-ev4ie2wx7k well the modern conversations do tend to be friendlier toward her...
@@1234cheerful And rightly so, why not have a balanced view
@@Shane-Flanagan yes indeed!
If it is her. Some argue it is Mary Tudor's the younger sister of Henry VIII. Her married name was Brandon. They believe the B stands for Brandon instead of Boleyn.
What a smart lady! I love how methodically she’s tracking the origin of the letter down!
I was given your books “ On This Day in Tudor History “ this morning, for my Birthday. I’m so happy !! 😃
Happy birthday! I do hope you enjoy your day and my book!
@@anneboleynfiles Thank you ! I’m going to have fun reading my daily Tudor diary
Looking forward to hearing what Amanda learns in her further research. A great interview, Claire.
Thank you. There is a lot to do !
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Thanks Claire, very interesting, something different, a real treat 🌞 Amanda is a delight.
More interview discussions/ collaborations in the future please 🤓 📚
Noted!
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Truth will always come to light no matter how long so I am excited at this research . Thank you Claire and Amanda 🙏🙏💜💜🦅
The Vatican holds so much ❤❤
Hopefully we will get to the truth one day!
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The fact that Henry married Jayne Seymour 11 days after Anne’s “execution” speaks volumes.
He for all intents and purposes Henry murdered Anne. I don’t swallow the innocent and Jayne Seymour “myth”.
I can’t believe she didn’t have any idea what was going on. Jayne played the courtly game well.
Many thanks Claire for this fascinating interview. Amanda Glover gave an interesting account of her research so far. What also came through in the interview was Amanda's determination to unravel the mystery behind the correspondence. Great Vlog.
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Thank you Amanda and Claire! Great video! xo❤
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Just started, this is going to be good! Two Englishwomen delving into their mutual historical passion!
Ha! Yes!
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Happy St Patrick's weekend to you Claire, to Tim, your furry family and to everyone in this community all around the world. Go green, be lucky and be merry ☘️ 🇮🇪 ☘️ 🍻 ☘️ 🌈 ☘️
And to you too!
What is the history of Catherine of Aragon's final letter, I wonder. How does it compare with this one as far as copies and where it was found? This is all so fascinating! Thank you both for your research and pursuit of truth in Anne Boleyn's cause.
I will have to look into that one. I know the letter in question, and it’s doubtful provenance, but little more. Another interesting letter though!
I think it's such a shame that Henry had to erase all traces of her. He did it so well that she will always remain a mystery. Who knows? Maybe one day some unexpected piece of evidence will be discovered just like the falcon badge. No one expected that, but there it is.
"I think it's such a shame that Henry had to erase all traces of her...."
In my opinion, this is tacit proof of his guilt. He *knew* Anne was innocent, he *knew* he committed murder. That's why he couldn't stand to be reminded of her.
I know the same would be true if he had believed without any doubt that she'd betrayed him (if he was also obsessed with her).
But come on, we've seen the records of the kangaroo court. Only a complete idiot, which for all his faults Henry was not, would have believed any of that.
No, he knew.
(And I think we all wish we had a time machine, even if only to observe)
@@p.s.shnabel3409It would have been really difficult and emotional to observe it first hand. To know she was being railroaded so he could move on to the next woman, her execution would have been heartbreaking. I would not have wanted to be there.
@@Grace-tc1lqYou are so right! Elizabeth must have had several layers of trauma.
It is amazing that she grew up to be as well grounded in reality as she seemed to have been.
Don't get me wrong, I have issues with several of her rulings. But, oh, she could have been a true monster and it's a miracle that she wasn't.
It will be the needle in the haystack scenario but fingers crossed!
Whatever you think about Anne her rise in court, and what happened to Katherine, the charges against her were bogus and Henry murdered her. He might not have swung the sword but his hands are stained with her blood.
Totally fascinating. Thank you, Ms. Glover. Thank you, Claire. G Ire
It would be so fabulous if that letter was Anne’s. Having real things from the past makes the past more “present”. This is not the same level, but the meaning is there; I found my old library card that I got when I was a little kid! It was a blast from the past! Oh the happy memories. Getting that library card was my ticket to the world! ❤
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How well I remember my first library card...such pride!! And, I used it A LOT
@@kazoolibra7322 yes! The library was the world at your fingertips.
Wonderful interview and interesting topic. Amazing opportunity to see this original and learn all about the water marks and their meaning...
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Thank you, Amanda and Claire, for a fascinating look at a possible missive from the fabulous and much-maligned Anne.
Really looking forwards to Amanda's further conclusions.💖
Stumbled on your channel today. It's wonderful. Thank you.
Love Queen Anne B. Thanks Claire for all your work , Greetings & love from California ❤
Oh wow, Ms. Amanda certainly has my attention. Why didn't anyone else think to study the watermarks on the letter, or did they? I'm pretty sure it was the Cotton Library where Dr. Owen Emerson said that Cromwell's book of hours was recently found so I wonder what else might be in that library under our noses that survived the fire!!! I took a random public survey once as to whether Anne's letter from the tower was authentic and about 80% said yes.
Amanda may want to discuss a possible important correlation with Sandra Vasoli regarding one of her discoveries, which was that Sandra found a contemporary notation in the Papal library by a witness to King Henry's death that on his deathbed, he expressed possible remorse about Anne's execution which might directly correlate with the statement in "Anne's letter" where the letter almost threatens Henry re his having to meet his maker some day and will face what he's done. So if Anne had dictated or written that letter saying that Henry would come upon that day, then he did, and faced his remorse, I've always wondered whether she did author that letter and Henry did read it before he died...and maybe he ordered the letter hidden. Who would do the hiding??? This may have followed with some frantic, secret rewriting of it to capture what she said to him for perpetuity!!!
I find the annotation on the Stowe copy just fascinating.
You REALLY have to wonder why this letter didn't pop up in the 1700s or 1800s, but in the very early 1600s, or even earlier, if we're able to date the other copies. The earlier a date we can find correlating to these copies, combined with Amanda's clear logic of why it would even be forged, the better, and the more authentic this possible "multiple-times-rewritten" letter begins to have some UMF to it !! Consider Tracy Borman's recent discoveries about how much QE1 actually expressed her adoration for her mother and displayed her furniture. Perhaps in some way, this mindset may have been preserved somehow under King James!
I believe that Amanda's angle of researching the handwriting and trying to identify a scribe or two or three, might be a good path to follow, though a needle in the haystack. I wonder whether Amanda has discussed what's she's found with Tracy Borman or Suzannah Lipcsomb. Maybe she could even discuss with Dr. Emerson if we have any idea or whether it's worth researching just how Thomas Cromwell's book of hours ended up on the Cotton Library as a parallel, and how the other letter ended up in the Stowe collection. These giant authentic institutions are not known for storing fakes. Could also try to focus research on just what else went on inside the tower during Anne's dark waiting period - who was transcribing for whom, etc. And lastly, perhaps researching bits of the exact phrasing in the letter - is that phrasing or handwriting style used in anything else, or anything else we do have from Anne, which is not much. Would the transcriber of such a letter from Anne in the tower have transcribed anything for someone else in the tower at the time Anne was there? I'm sure prisoners were not each assigned their own personal scribes!! Surely they transcribed for others, if there were scribes; or, if only Anne was scribed a "last letter" among all the prisoners, surely it was a known scribe assigned to a special transcription! Who might have witnessed any transcription? Plus, because they recently found one of Anne's wooden falcons from a private collection on auction - who else is harboring things "of Anne" ??!!?? Sorry this is long, but I too, am obsessed with this letter. :)
Thank you very much for your interest. Just a small correction- Cromwell’s book of hours was “discovered” in Trinity College, Cambridge, not the Cotton Library. It’s existence has long been known about but it was only identified as having belonged to Cromwell recently, the discovery being made by the Hever Castle team.
The story of Henry’s deathbed remorse is indeed interesting. It was raised by Bishop Burnet in his book first published in 1679, and as you say, Sandra Vasoli has researched it recently. The problem with this story is that Andre Thevet who reported the alleged regret of Henry, was not present at the time. He was simply reporting what he claimed to have been told. It is very much hearsay. It would be nice to think that Henry did regret some of his terrible crimes, but even if Thevet was honest in his reporting, the story could have been embellished or exaggerated. It may well be a question of “Chinese whispers”.
@@amandaglover9282 Hi Amanda! Nice to hear from you, wow! You're so right! I had my libraries mixed up. Nonetheless, my angle was wondering how they got there. I had not yet heard of the name Adre Thevet, but wouldn't it be curious to wonder if he UNDER-exaggerated his report, or it was played down, so as not to reveal the King might be weak in any way. I can just see him ordering it hidden or destroyed like everything else about Anne. I think he may have let his circle convince him she betrayed him, but knew deep down inside she did not, and the ganging up against her was easier to tolerate than no heir at that point. Of course, we can whisper until the cows come home but it's fun to try to think of all possibilities together. I also wonder what QE1 had from her mother in her private stash that none of us will ever know about. I've been working on my family's genealogy for a decade, and Lord Burghley was my ancestors' attorney, and one of his distant ancestors again, our attorney, then family member, in the states. If only I had a grandparent to ask, ha. I wish you much luck in your research and please do share as you discover. I'll be a puppy in a cookie shop waiting :))
This was fascinating! 📜👑 Thanx!
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Wonderful interview with Amanda Glover--thank you, Claire and Amanda. I read Anne's presumably dictated letter and the watermark history--thank you for the link. The watermark observations are brilliant! The wording of the letter certainly seems (to me, at least) to comport with what could logically be Anne's interpretation of the situation she found herself in. From a modern day point of view (again, mine), I believe Anne knew she was toast, as was Henry's eternal soul. Elizabeth I was her revenge!
Amanda has done such wonderful research.
She was in complete turmoil at the time, fearing execution but possibly hoping for an annulment of her marriage and some form of exile from court, much as Katherine of Aragon. She may well have known that the traditional type of pleading
Continued… would not have helped, but reminding Henry of his soul and of his past love for her could possibly make a difference.
@@amandaglover9282 Thank you for your response, Amanda. Claire posted a "What if..." video about two months ago in response to Shane-Flanagan's query, "What if Anne Boleyn had not been executed?" The short answer was that there were too many possible complications that could have arisen from Anne's continued existence. Henry wanted a "clean break" following Katherine's death and his impending marriage to Jane Seymour. I agree that Anne's approach in the letter makes sense from her viewpoint and knowledge of her husband. And he could be quite intractable, that's for sure!
Thank you, Professors Glover and Ridgway.
Oh wouldn't we love to be professors!!
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I enjoyed this interview format. Thank you! It was very interesting!
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Was a great interview thank you so much ,,,,i wish you would have read the letter to us maybe a follow up. love hearing your take on this fascinating subject.
Yes, to hear some of it would have been nice .
Thanks very much. The letter is attached to the article, or you can find it by searching online.
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Loved this
Fascinating research being conducted.
Thank you!
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According to our family legend, Anne wasn't allowed to write to Henry, but on her insisting she was able to dictate it. But Cromwell never gave it to Henry.
That sounds entirely possible if no probable.
Obviously everything else is SO much more important but OMG I love your sweater so much 😍😭😍
Thank you!
So do I
Hello! I have a couple of questions. When you were looking at the Manuscripts- did you come across any letters from Queen Elizabeth I talking about any of the Norreys family or Lady "Black Crow"? Have you come across any documents from the Norrey's family at all? Was Henry Norris mentioned in any of Anne's letters?
Does Mary Magdalene College at Oxford University have any Manuscripts that you can attempt to match the handwriting to? The "forger" was obviously educated- and if they were that close, they were nobility.
It could have also been written over as well during the reign of King James.
Amanda was looking at this specific letter and then she noticed the letters either side of it in the book.
Hi, I have not seen the original of the letter that Elizabeth wrote to “Mine own Crow”. That was written in 1597, many years after the period that I was investigating re Anne. I believe that the original is in the Folger Library.
Thank you Amanda.I had to ask because I am descended from Henry Norreys' and that also makes Anne my 2nd cousin many times removed. Claire, that is why I asked my questions. Lol
Loved this!😊
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Very enjoyable interview, thank you 💜
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Fascinating
Oh ladies! This was fabulous andnit makes me want to know so much more. It does break tour heart at the thought, the possibility of Henry throwing the original into the fire though doesn't it?
It is pure supposition of course, but if Anne did write the letter and Henry did see it, if Cromwell had convinced him of Anne’s guilt, I think he would have been angered by the letter. If he knew the case was pure fabrication, the letter may have made him think again for a while, but either way he would have wanted it destroyed.
This is very interesting love it
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🇬🇧 I think Elizabeth 1 would have been pretty keen on obtaining anything to do with her mother.
We know how fiercely intelligent she was & i can imagine her digging into old caches of books or papers, old boxes of papers stored away from many people from her fathers day,
Hoping maybe to find even the smallest reference to her mother Anne
She also had William Cecil who i always visualise being able to lay his hands on the most obscure of
Curiosities & perhaps personal papers of those who like Elizabeths mother, were also beheaded by her father.
Perhaps she sought out Cromwells papers to delve into what was said about her mother
She must have known Cromwells
Ability to trump up charges & his interviews with countless persons in order to make any charges stick.
Maybe the origional letter that Anne may have dictated ( if indeed it was associated with Cromwell) was found by Elizabeths researchers & she retained it for herself ?
Could have had it copied for safety reasons & those copies were of the one that survived
Until present day.
Its curious & interesting.
I think Elizabeth would have wanted anything associated or remotely related to her mother found !
Any reminder for her to keep as a momento of the mother she lost.
Anyway Thank you for an interesting topic.
I wonder if any of Elizabeths documents, letters or writings may have contained any clues to this mysterious letter?
Peace to All
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It must be so frustrating to not be able to get your hands on information that you know is available. Four months since the cyber attack and you still can't get in. I'd be pulling my hair out. Hopefully the museum will be available soon.
Yes!
Yes it is very frustrating for so many researchers and of course the staff at the BL.
I wonder if the records wound up in the files of foreign ambassadors and the Vatican Library? They seem to have got their hands on quite a few documents of Henry VIII's court.
There are so many places they could be, if they ever existed. However my fear is that any records relating to this that we do not know about already have been destroyed.
Thank you so much for this!!
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Hello, I have a family link that I wish to research but have run out of resources and hope someone can recommend something that goes beyond what is typically available online or published sources.
The connection is the marriage of Thomas Payne with Elizabeth Boleyn, Anne’s 1st cousin. Thomas and one of the Beddingfields had the custody of princess Elizabeth during the reign of Mary. Thomas was from Itteringham near Blickling and he descends from the Chief Butler, John Payn (d. 1402) of Wymondham and Helhoughton Norfolk, a family close to the Butlers of Ireland.
Happy st Patrick day Claire
I hope it is real
Do you think that the writings that Lord Burley obtained were saved by him to one day give to Lady/ Queen Elizabeth?
Queen Elizabeth really relied on Lord Burley for guidance and as a protector.
It would seem to me, once she became Queen, she would want to see what was there of her mother that hadn't been destroyed.
Can’t look at Amanda’s research because I “don’t have permission to access this resource.”
It would be nice to know if it is real or fake
It certainly would!
Thank you for this interview. How brilliant to figure out that watermarks can be used to date the age of the paper itself.
As an armchair sleuth I can think of at least two other reasons why someone might have forged the content of this letter:
1. Politics, i.e. to prove that Anne Boleyn was innocent and/or that Henry was an unreasonable killer. I don't know, though, who would have wanted to spread this kind of message.
I don't know enough about the political landscape of the time - would this have been something the Catholic church might have been interested in doing? They certainly would have had people with the education, skills and connections necessary to pull this off. But then, if they were behind it, how did it take decades to be even mentioned?
2. To garner favor with Elizabeth. In that case the original forgery would have been made during her life-time and was meant for her to lay hands on. If I remember correctly, Elizabeth walked a very careful path of trying to rehabilitate her mother one one hand while not maligning her father on the other.
I can imagine an ambitious person cooking up a plot involving a forged letter from Elizabeth's mother, showing Anne in a very positive way - while still in keeping with the known facts.
But if that's the case, same question as the first scenario: why did this letter only become known so much later? And also, wouldn't the way Henry is being addressed potentially cross the line with Elizabeth?
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Like you, I too would like to think that Anne wrote (or dictated) the original. The injustice of her death makes me wish that she had at least this much dignity left to her, the chance to address her murderer and correct him. And I hope that her daughter knew of this letter, it would have helped her better understand what happened and potentially help deal with her trauma.
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Thank you again to the both of you. I deeply appreciate the time and effort you take to present us with the findings. And your honesty, admitting freely which parts are substantiated facts and which are educated guesses. This is research done right.
Thank you very much for your comments. Your two proposed scenarios would have given some sort of benefit to the forger if the letter had been produced at the time of its writing rather than apparently being hidden away for decades. It would not have been Catholic propaganda as the Catholics were against Anne, who was a reformer. If it was a forgery made during Elizabeth’s lifetime and given to her it could have led to some form of reward for the forger. However, I believe that I have established that the letter that I was studying was written after Elizabeth’s death in 1603.
Such drama and intrigue!
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A cyber attack on the British Library is most dreadful 😢 Why ?
Lol
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Does she read the letter?
It was all Henry. Imo there is no doubt about it. Cromwell would not have cared about the letter.
I'm descended from Mary Boleyn Carey Stafford and I have lots of things to say about Anne Boleyn, Mary and George.
I too have Mary Boleyn as a direct (19th step from Mary & Henry VIII's daughter). Having learned this later in my life, I am now very fascinated with all things Tudor. We thank god for Mary; without her endurance, we would not be here! I often wonder how many descendants can be measured.
Why are there big fake b....ts on Anne Boleyn's picture in the presentation of this video ?
I'm not sure what you mean? The portrait behind me is a copy of the Hever Rose portrait of Anne.
If you mean the modern painting, who knows?
@@anneboleynfiles You are right, I meant the modern painting that appears as a presentation before I clicked to play the video. Sorry that my comment seemed a bit abrupt. I didn't mean it in that way. I greatly appreciate the content of your videos, but I was confused by that historically surprising image of her. 😏🙂
@@cardinalgin no problem!
I feel like this lady is too bright for Claire...
Someone could have forged it just to become famous.
The Diana- fiction of Anne Boleyn continues
Happy st Patrick day Claire
Thank you!