I agree with what you say about bandpass to a point. Bandpass enclosures can be amazing from an experienced builder. They are definitely not for anyone who is just starting out. I've done quite a few and learned a lot from messing up at first but now I can build really good 4th and 6th orders. I'm self taught also.
That’s only half the argument. The point is they end up being way bigger than a ported box and don’t really do that much better of a job than a regular ported box.
@abelscaliber7969 when I think of 4th and 6th orders I'm thinking large scale anyway as in a wall. I do large builds most of the time. I don't compete anymore but do it just for fun. Bandpass is definitely the best way for a lot of subs. As far as small scale with 1 or 2 subs there definitely isn't going to be enough of a difference to bother with going bandpass.
The simpilest method is to tune the enclosure for the flattest response possible, then EQ to taste. This will satisfy 99% of all listeners. Or just do a single 18 sealed 😁.
After years and different set ups in multiple vehicles.. My conclusion is if doing a ported box aim for 75-125 Square inches of total cone area (SD) Ex: 1 12” sub/ 3 8” subs/ 2 10” subs: And if sealed then aim for 150-200 square inches of cone area. Ex: 2 12”s / 1 18”… This would also satisfy 99% of people
@@thenotoriousrvh6091 I am contemplating a stereo integrity sqL 15 sealed… 2016 honda fit, sony gs-1631 3 ways, zapco stx 70 by 4 ,,, and I have a Jbl A-1000 but would love a jp 23 v2 1500 watts at 2 ohm
Also, most companies, including Peavey and the rest make them wrong, with the wrong drivers. Basically you should just make the proper enclosure then build a horn / lens out in front of it to focus the propagation. Most makers do some lame shit with sealed enclosures. I have a big pair like that now that I'm having to retrofit and mod. Also the woofers they use have no real excursion and don't play to 30Hz.
I know you don't want to get into the weeds, but nuance is usually a good thing. The shape of a port does have some affect, the air speed of a duct/pipe will be affected by more than just the cross sectional area. A circular port of equal cross sectional area would need to be longer to achieve the same air impedance. It's probably negligible in these scenarios, but anyone interested in learning more can google "hydraulic diameter". Worth noting that your software tool is showing "Square port diameter" which is the diameter that has an equal cross sectional area as the square port. They didn't do any adjustment for hydraulic diameter, so it's not clear to me why they are showing that value unless the formula they use to calculate length is based on circular port.
Air is a fluid, so it doesn't care what shape it is. You can overcome any inefficientcies by just making the port larger. I do the same thing with the motor, by adding more magnets
@@RobotUnderground In this case, I think most people would prefer the less efficient rectangular port (less efficient in terms of fluid resistance). Less efficient means the port can be shorter, and therefore consume less box space. If you were making some kind of audiophile speaker for use in a low noise environment, you would probably do circular with flares because they would in theory have less air noise from turbulence.
@@RobotUnderground I would agree on those points, which is why I restricted the scope of the term efficiency to fluid resistance. My only real point was that two ducts with equal cross-sectional area and length are not necessarily equivalent. I think its a mistake to teach something in a cursory way, without at least mentioning that it's a simplified model. As an example, I will never understand the electron cloud model and wave-particle duality, but I'm glad it was mentioned when I was taught the easier concepts of the Bohr model/valence shell.
It's best to use a sub in a sealed box so that you're not picking up any shared resonance. Play tones at the same level and use a cheap and easy SPL meter to graph the response as you go up track by track. You can do it in 5hz steps if you want to save a little time... Or you can go to a bass meet and if they have an SPL meter, they can do a sweep and tell you in like 30 seconds.
i used to work at rex lumber and made all the side panels for steinway pianos so i make my tapped horns from the same stuff . kills me to see people buy a expensive speaker and put it in a prefab box. then listen to my stuff only to find out it costs a quarter of what they paid for .
in the end just because i like silk tweeter don't mean you can't like a ribbon tweeter. we can all get along because we like music and don't want to get ripped off!@@RobotUnderground
How can you learn how to tune it without a computer.... If you don't have them sites everyone's talkin about that does it for you how can you do it on paper.... Tuna box on paper not a computer
Box Tune Calculator is a free app that does everything and Ultimate Car Audio App is also free and has tutorials if you need help. I use both them so I can cross reference. Box Tune Calculator let's you save all the information and the cutlists so I use it more but UCAA has tone generators and a couple other calculators
I dont understand what you're saying. Its just an equation. If you have commonsense and basic math understanding, it not hard to learn. Short of a complete society collapse, why use paper. If it was the end of society, subwoofer design would be the last thing on ones mind.
@avac4312 I support you wanting to do it on paper my guy. Imo, I enjoy the old fashioned way of doing math, rather than relying on electronics. The latter is more convenient and MUCH faster of course...but there's something that sticks better when done manually...for me anyway. Our society (well maybe the younger generations) are screwed if we lose computer and phone access when it comes to stuff like this. On a non audio related subject, I do graffiti and calligraphy, and penmanship is a dying art because of technology...sad really. I don't even think they teach cursive in grade school anymore. +1 for pen and paper!
Watched this THREE TIMES before I realized that this video is alot of mumbling and typing. 20 minutes about how to put a round port into a computer program made for square ports. You said kerf ports were hard to calculate. Okay. Where is the comparison between the 3 ??? I like the look of the 30 hz rounded horn boxes on ebay. I don’t understand how it can be 30 hz tuning with a way shorter port than other prefabs. But I want to know for sound quality comparison
@@RobotUnderground sorry for the way I worded my comment. I was frustrated because MBE will title videos and then put CHEWING GUM in his mouth and battle with the English language, never being able to express hisself accurately, and using words that he CLEARLY doesn’t know the definition of…. My question is simple. I love the DD 712f… recommended airspace is 1.75-3 cubic feet. Which would be the tightest most accurate bass even though its not an SQ sub??? Would 1.75 be faster bass (while losing frequency extension) ? I understand the compromises as far as frequency extension, but what about accuracy? Speed? I want to put a 712 f in the 2.5 foot GP car audio 32 hz box in my 2016 honda fit on a jp23 . Do you have patreon or anywhere that we can pay to submit questions or topics? Thank you for all your work. God bless, Jerry
Robot has a Patreon. www.Patreon.com/RobotUnderground and I run it. A good sub will play to 30Hz and have lots of excursion and very large motor. That's it. After that, it's a budget thing.
This is the kind of shit why I'm selling off all my prefab boxes and so called spec boxes, all these computers and numbers is bullshit to me, I'm going free air and doing it freestyle, nobody will know and nobody will care. See assholes Patrick is good with numbers and so many other things, you don't even know.
I agree with what you say about bandpass to a point. Bandpass enclosures can be amazing from an experienced builder. They are definitely not for anyone who is just starting out. I've done quite a few and learned a lot from messing up at first but now I can build really good 4th and 6th orders. I'm self taught also.
That’s only half the argument. The point is they end up being way bigger than a ported box and don’t really do that much better of a job than a regular ported box.
@abelscaliber7969 when I think of 4th and 6th orders I'm thinking large scale anyway as in a wall. I do large builds most of the time. I don't compete anymore but do it just for fun. Bandpass is definitely the best way for a lot of subs. As far as small scale with 1 or 2 subs there definitely isn't going to be enough of a difference to bother with going bandpass.
Great video. I have to check that book out. I use the Ultimate Car Audio app box calculator. Hasn't let me down yet 😂.
The simpilest method is to tune the enclosure for the flattest response possible, then EQ to taste. This will satisfy 99% of all listeners. Or just do a single 18 sealed 😁.
After years and different set ups in multiple vehicles..
My conclusion is if doing a ported box aim for 75-125 Square inches of total cone area (SD)
Ex: 1 12” sub/ 3 8” subs/ 2 10” subs:
And if sealed then aim for 150-200 square inches of cone area. Ex: 2 12”s / 1 18”…
This would also satisfy 99% of people
@@thenotoriousrvh6091 I am contemplating a stereo integrity sqL 15 sealed… 2016 honda fit, sony gs-1631 3 ways, zapco stx 70 by 4 ,,, and I have a Jbl A-1000 but would love a jp 23 v2 1500 watts at 2 ohm
My best box tune in my truck is 30hz and 33 in my tahoe or Suburban. or over sized sealed boxes.
Yep.
Awesome video. Great explanation.
Thank you!
What’s your opinion on horn enclosures?
Only good for directional bass applications like at a concert or night club when located away from the corners of the room.
Also, most companies, including Peavey and the rest make them wrong, with the wrong drivers. Basically you should just make the proper enclosure then build a horn / lens out in front of it to focus the propagation. Most makers do some lame shit with sealed enclosures. I have a big pair like that now that I'm having to retrofit and mod. Also the woofers they use have no real excursion and don't play to 30Hz.
I know you don't want to get into the weeds, but nuance is usually a good thing. The shape of a port does have some affect, the air speed of a duct/pipe will be affected by more than just the cross sectional area. A circular port of equal cross sectional area would need to be longer to achieve the same air impedance. It's probably negligible in these scenarios, but anyone interested in learning more can google "hydraulic diameter". Worth noting that your software tool is showing "Square port diameter" which is the diameter that has an equal cross sectional area as the square port. They didn't do any adjustment for hydraulic diameter, so it's not clear to me why they are showing that value unless the formula they use to calculate length is based on circular port.
Air is a fluid, so it doesn't care what shape it is.
You can overcome any inefficientcies by just making the port larger. I do the same thing with the motor, by adding more magnets
@@RobotUnderground In this case, I think most people would prefer the less efficient rectangular port (less efficient in terms of fluid resistance). Less efficient means the port can be shorter, and therefore consume less box space. If you were making some kind of audiophile speaker for use in a low noise environment, you would probably do circular with flares because they would in theory have less air noise from turbulence.
@@mattgraham4340 The rectangle port uses space more efficiently and adds to the rigidity of the enclosure
@@RobotUnderground I would agree on those points, which is why I restricted the scope of the term efficiency to fluid resistance. My only real point was that two ducts with equal cross-sectional area and length are not necessarily equivalent. I think its a mistake to teach something in a cursory way, without at least mentioning that it's a simplified model. As an example, I will never understand the electron cloud model and wave-particle duality, but I'm glad it was mentioned when I was taught the easier concepts of the Bohr model/valence shell.
How do you find the fs of your vehicle
You could use a room mode calculator.
A car is just a small room, you get modes for all 3 axis once you put in the measurements. Try Amroc.
It's best to use a sub in a sealed box so that you're not picking up any shared resonance. Play tones at the same level and use a cheap and easy SPL meter to graph the response as you go up track by track. You can do it in 5hz steps if you want to save a little time... Or you can go to a bass meet and if they have an SPL meter, they can do a sweep and tell you in like 30 seconds.
Dang heavy air
i used to work at rex lumber and made all the side panels for steinway pianos so i make my tapped horns from the same stuff . kills me to see people buy a expensive speaker and put it in a prefab box. then listen to my stuff only to find out it costs a quarter of what they paid for .
lol. That's great.
in the end just because i like silk tweeter don't mean you can't like a ribbon tweeter. we can all get along because we like music and don't want to get ripped off!@@RobotUnderground
@@craigengelman1369 This is true. The best love is free love. #HandysNothate
Whats your opinion of clamshell isobaric sealed?
It depends on the application but I was going to go over that and some designs.
@@RobotUnderground cool!
Give the basshead some physics lessons 👍
Humid air is less dense and lighter than dry air
Science would disagree with you.
Well, then why does rain fall DOWN instead of up?
Google is your friend, science is on my side, if there both the same temp and at the same pressure
What's MBE's take?
MBE LIKES SUBWOOFER TECHNOLOGY ALSO USES EPICENTER TO MAKE HIS BOXES SOUND GOOD
@@allmotorhashthat’s funny too bc to me Epicenters sound like dog shit
@@abelscaliber7969that's because epicenter's ARE dog shit. Garbage, for people that like to waste $. MBE is garbage, so not surprising.
👍👀👍
How can you learn how to tune it without a computer.... If you don't have them sites everyone's talkin about that does it for you how can you do it on paper.... Tuna box on paper not a computer
Box Tune Calculator is a free app that does everything and Ultimate Car Audio App is also free and has tutorials if you need help. I use both them so I can cross reference. Box Tune Calculator let's you save all the information and the cutlists so I use it more but UCAA has tone generators and a couple other calculators
Been using that for a long time. Very accurate and only need a smart phone
I dont understand what you're saying. Its just an equation. If you have commonsense and basic math understanding, it not hard to learn. Short of a complete society collapse, why use paper. If it was the end of society, subwoofer design would be the last thing on ones mind.
@avac4312 I support you wanting to do it on paper my guy. Imo, I enjoy the old fashioned way of doing math, rather than relying on electronics. The latter is more convenient and MUCH faster of course...but there's something that sticks better when done manually...for me anyway. Our society (well maybe the younger generations) are screwed if we lose computer and phone access when it comes to stuff like this. On a non audio related subject, I do graffiti and calligraphy, and penmanship is a dying art because of technology...sad really. I don't even think they teach cursive in grade school anymore. +1 for pen and paper!
@zackbalins658 if computers and cell phones stop working we're all screwed
Watched this THREE TIMES before I realized that this video is alot of mumbling and typing. 20 minutes about how to put a round port into a computer program made for square ports. You said kerf ports were hard to calculate. Okay. Where is the comparison between the 3 ??? I like the look of the 30 hz rounded horn boxes on ebay. I don’t understand how it can be 30 hz tuning with a way shorter port than other prefabs. But I want to know for sound quality comparison
You're missing the point of the video. Just make a square or rectangle port with plenty of area and you're good.
@@RobotUnderground sorry for the way I worded my comment. I was frustrated because MBE will title videos and then put CHEWING GUM in his mouth and battle with the English language, never being able to express hisself accurately, and using words that he CLEARLY doesn’t know the definition of…. My question is simple. I love the DD 712f… recommended airspace is 1.75-3 cubic feet. Which would be the tightest most accurate bass even though its not an SQ sub??? Would 1.75 be faster bass (while losing frequency extension) ? I understand the compromises as far as frequency extension, but what about accuracy? Speed? I want to put a 712 f in the 2.5 foot GP car audio 32 hz box in my 2016 honda fit on a jp23 . Do you have patreon or anywhere that we can pay to submit questions or topics? Thank you for all your work. God bless, Jerry
Robot has a Patreon. www.Patreon.com/RobotUnderground and I run it. A good sub will play to 30Hz and have lots of excursion and very large motor. That's it. After that, it's a budget thing.
💙🫡👑🔉
This is the kind of shit why I'm selling off all my prefab boxes and so called spec boxes, all these computers and numbers is bullshit to me, I'm going free air and doing it freestyle, nobody will know and nobody will care.
See assholes Patrick is good with numbers and so many other things, you don't even know.
All these damn videos of you talking an no one has seen your face 😅
Meh. You ain't missing much. Focus on the work, not me.