The Revolution Pickup is much better than it is in this video. It has to be under the LOW strings not under the G in order to get a fair comparison chart
Maybe so, but the only reason for it to sound as thin and tinny as this is because it needs a super high impedance input. With a lower impedance instrument input (like an amp that's expecting a Fender-type bass), the lows get all choked out - it's like stepping on a garden hose.
@@JacqueHarper The very minimum a piezo pickup should ever go into is 1 megaohm; but 2, 4 - up to 10 megaohm works even better for certain acoustic pickups. Whereas: an amp meant for electric guitars or basses often has an input impedance of 1/4 of a megaohm, or less. This is _one_ of the reasons that they make amps especially for acoustic instruments.
Sounds Great - Sounds better than my DPA D'Vote and not surprising really as the diaphragm in the Ear Trumpet is about 40 times the size. Thank You Jason. You have been there throughout my double bass Journey, from the very start. Hope 2021 is kind to you! GREAT show. Always.
The instructions with the microphone were correct about feed back off an on-stage monitor. It was a real nightmare working with techs who had never EQ'd a Contra-bass before. Due to this I got sponsored by Acoustic Image when I was younger who makes some of the best amps, they work extremely well for Contra-Bass as well as electric bass and can easily replace a monitor speaker on stage. The head on my Coda SB2 also has speakon inputs and can push 1000w so it is a great set-up with the amp acting as a speaker tuned to prevent feedback on acoustic instruments and head that can push out to the house too! Although the Coda SB2 is a bass amp it features a full range speaker so I also use it for flute and vocals when I busk on the street. If you haven't tried one check them out to complement that microphone!
Thanks for this but there’s a better solution, Geoff Mallia, in Sydney makes great bridge pickups., they are also adjustable for volume for each string, adding versatility, by rotating them in the bridge. I use them on all my basses. Happy to answer any questions, should anyone want to contact me. Keep doing your best Jason, always like your stuff; James.
The Nadine sounds fabulous and I think Chris Wood also uses one. I’d love to hear an A/B test with the Nadine, Full Circle, and Realist. Maybe they can send you some pickups!😀
Yeah, that would be an interesting test for sure! I might try to find a colleague to do something like that since I'm not really so much in the amplified world, but we'll see what happens... 😃
Chris Wood does! He also has a Fischman Full Circle and a Condenser Microphone set-up for solos, so he is mic'd three different ways all at once. I got to talk to his sound guy years ago and he gave me the run down on how he had his bass mic'd. Each one covers something different when it comes to sound. It was a very interesting conversation and helped me a lot in designing my contra-bass set up.
A bit tricky to compare them as the gain is unequal -- we are psychologically primed to hear louder as better, in which case the Nadine is probably underrepresented in this video and the Rode is overepresented. Enjoyed it all the same.
And the Upton, while OBVIOUSLY different tonally, is also underrepresented: so much lower output than all the others. I don't suggest that volume matching the Upton to the others will suddenly make the Upton sound really cool, but maybe it wouldn't sound so dramatically inferior.
My thinking is that the placement is a huge chunk of why Nadine sounds so good. I have an inexpensive Audix F90 condenser in roughly the same place, and it sounds great thru an amp. Yeah you need to EQ for the room, but with a sensitive mic so close to a resonant chamber such as an upright bass that is unavoidable.
Greetings Jason! Your rev 2 pickup placement needs adjustment. If it finds the SWEET spot it won't sound like what it is in this video. I would suggest to put it on the E string side and sort of move it around to find a warm sounding spot( normally placing it in the middle. )
RE: The Upton REV sounding so thin.: It's only a little piezo - rather than move it around - it SHOULD be fed into a very hot input: 1 MEGA OHM . THAT is why you get a thin "quacky" sound. It will work plugged into anything - but they have huge resistance. A cheap but servicable preamp designed for a hot piezo input is what you need. A fishman or something by RADIAL.
@@willb3698 Hmm.. I doubt that it needs a very hot input. I've been using REV2 PU for more than 7 years and I never needed a additional gear to make it sound better( sorry better is probably the only word that I can come up with) The reason that it needs to be adjusted was mainly by observing that placement of the PU in this video and I myself have already experimented with mine years ago and found the SWEET spot it needed. I might be wrong but if the pu needs a additional gear to sound properly, then nobody would use it.
I think Christian Mc bride mainly uses the dpa, there’s a virtual master class where he says that’s what he uses, I think that this mic is more about the looks than the sound. It does sound good but not as good as the dpa.
This is great Jason! Thank you. Of course, I wanna now a deep-dive comparison, with not only the DPA but some other mics I've used in the past: AKG 414, U47, U87, AEA N8, ShureKSM32, Shure SM81, EV RE20, the ATM350, a 57 (everyman mic). This list could go on all day long. Of course, distance matters. Curious how the Nadine fairs in comparison with itself (on a mic stand a little further away).
Thanks, Corbin! I just loaned the Nadine to a colleague, but when I get it back I’ll do a little more playing around with placement and A/B testing. More to come!
It seems like the levels weren't exactly matched, with the Zoom and the Rode being significantly louder in some of the tests (but not so much with the bow). Definitely all the mics sound way more natural than the pickup. They all sound a little different but pretty good. The Nadine actually picks up less of a scratchy sound from the bow due to its positioning, which is nice, while being a little less likely to feed back than a more distant mic would. I've been wondering about miking classical solo work, as a "just in case" for a soloist to be heard over an orchestra in a larger hall, for instance trying to play a romantic cello concerto, since I suspect that could be a problem at times. If it sounds natural enough, a little bit of reinforcement could make a big difference in the feasibility of such performances. Or is a good soloist usually able to project well enough over an orchestra in a larger hall? I haven't actually been to any such concerts (just a bass duo with piano).
Yeah, good point about micing for solo classical. I think the Nadine would be awesome for that! It’s discreet and doesn’t seem to have a negative impact on the acoustic tone at all when mounted, so it could be a great choice for that.
Very nice mic. For a pizz player I think you might want to shorten your string afterlength to get the tailpiece a little further from the saddle. This will free up the tailpiece some so it can move with all that weight on it. 600 bucks though, sheesh. If you can play without smacking into it, you're probably better off with a mic off instrument. Just my opinion, if it quacks like a duck, it's a piezo.
Hi Mr Heath, you said you use an zoom h6 for online teaching. What is exactly your mic combo (if you use more than the built in mic) and the placement of the recorder ? I can either put the zoom h4n pro or røde Nt1-a close to the bass but my voice sounds far and odd. The second option is using the mic close to my mouth, then the students see a huge device covering my face or arms. A lav mic for my voice + a big mic for the bass is a good combo when making pre recorded tutorials. The question is how to optimise the audio of online teaching live… if you find any time for my problems. Cheers
Good question! I usually just put the H6 on a short tripod and have it a little below my bridge, just far enough away that I don't bow it (!). That seems to work for me. That plus a lav mic should get you good results.
At least on my system from best to worst 1 H6 - I own one, I know it's a great tool for room recording, still surprised me 2. The Nadine 3. The Rodes (it actually sounded better than the Nadine, but with the extra noise, and too much highs I gave it to the Nadine 4. The Revolution which I don't know but I don't believe they sound as bad (I sounded like your bass is made of paper). First thing you didn't level match, but it sounds like there where other issues as well.
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thanks a lot for the comparison man :) Hey is the revolution solo piezo pickup really that thin? Can you try it with a active D.I. box? Idk if that is the actual sound of it or a impedance mismatch
Great review. Thanks, but... Comparing the ET mic to the Rode mic is revealing. I LOVE the low midrange presence of the ET mic, but it sounds quite dark in the upper frequencies. Is it friendly to EQ? Also, clearly the Upton pickup is thin as hell, I assume because it's being recorded without any processing? Was the impedance buffered somehow on the way in? The ET mics are gorgeous, and they look rugged as hell, which is a HUGE plus for anybody playing gigs.
Yeah, I like the ET mics. I didn’t do any signal processing for the Upton, which certainly would have helped. I haven’t used the ET in a live situation, but at home it seems to work great.
Love all your video but I am still figuring out what is the possible mic to plug to my iPad Pro connecting to Zoom Conference for zoom online lesson so that my son teacher could hear him play clearly. Using the current build in mic and have to Enable original sound on the setting is the only way possible now and it is clearly not good since you have to stand a distance away from the iPad front camera so that at least half the body of the bass could be seen. I wonder Jason or anyone has such experience to share LIVE ZOOM conference and how an external mic could be plug and capture the best sound from the double bass?
I agree. The H6 is great! I use it on Jamulus (near-real time collaborative performing app). My colleagues all say they really like the sound of my Bass (Chinese Jusek knockoff). I like the convenience of the Nadine for playing live. However, if you are playing thru a standard Bass Amp, you will need a 48v phantom power supply and a Low/Hi Impedance transformer.
The Rode Video mic sounded surprisingly good - although it was at enough of a distance that a lot of room sound bled into the signal.
Agreed - was pleasantly surprised by the Rode. Was it mounted on the bass? If so, can you post a photo of how it was mounted?
The Revolution Pickup is much better than it is in this video. It has to be under the LOW strings not under the G in order to get a fair comparison chart
100%!
Maybe so, but the only reason for it to sound as thin and tinny as this is because it needs a super high impedance input. With a lower impedance instrument input (like an amp that's expecting a Fender-type bass), the lows get all choked out - it's like stepping on a garden hose.
@@pbasswil That is helpful information, thank you for providing it.
@@JacqueHarper The very minimum a piezo pickup should ever go into is 1 megaohm; but 2, 4 - up to 10 megaohm works even better for certain acoustic pickups. Whereas: an amp meant for electric guitars or basses often has an input impedance of 1/4 of a megaohm, or less. This is _one_ of the reasons that they make amps especially for acoustic instruments.
Yes way better than this demo his is probably dying
Sounds Great - Sounds better than my DPA D'Vote and not surprising really as the diaphragm in the Ear Trumpet is about 40 times the size. Thank You Jason. You have been there throughout my double bass Journey, from the very start. Hope 2021 is kind to you! GREAT show. Always.
Thanks, Will-much appreciated, and happy 2021 to you also! 😃
The instructions with the microphone were correct about feed back off an on-stage monitor. It was a real nightmare working with techs who had never EQ'd a Contra-bass before. Due to this I got sponsored by Acoustic Image when I was younger who makes some of the best amps, they work extremely well for Contra-Bass as well as electric bass and can easily replace a monitor speaker on stage. The head on my Coda SB2 also has speakon inputs and can push 1000w so it is a great set-up with the amp acting as a speaker tuned to prevent feedback on acoustic instruments and head that can push out to the house too! Although the Coda SB2 is a bass amp it features a full range speaker so I also use it for flute and vocals when I busk on the street. If you haven't tried one check them out to complement that microphone!
Thanks for this but there’s a better solution, Geoff Mallia, in Sydney makes great bridge pickups., they are also adjustable for volume for each string, adding versatility, by rotating them in the bridge. I use them on all my basses. Happy to answer any questions, should anyone want to contact me. Keep doing your best Jason, always like your stuff; James.
I'm interested to know more about it. Can you give me details about it. Thanks a lot!!!
The Nadine sounds fabulous and I think Chris Wood also uses one. I’d love to hear an A/B test with the Nadine, Full Circle, and Realist. Maybe they can send you some pickups!😀
Yeah, that would be an interesting test for sure! I might try to find a colleague to do something like that since I'm not really so much in the amplified world, but we'll see what happens... 😃
Chris Wood does! He also has a Fischman Full Circle and a Condenser Microphone set-up for solos, so he is mic'd three different ways all at once. I got to talk to his sound guy years ago and he gave me the run down on how he had his bass mic'd. Each one covers something different when it comes to sound. It was a very interesting conversation and helped me a lot in designing my contra-bass set up.
The Rev need a 1 mega Ohm input on a little preamp. Unless it's plugged into one and it's not in the right place.
Definitely wrong impedance which is a shame because I love that pickup!
This makes total sense. I though it would be weird to have a mic from Upton sounding that bad.
A bit tricky to compare them as the gain is unequal -- we are psychologically primed to hear louder as better, in which case the Nadine is probably underrepresented in this video and the Rode is overepresented. Enjoyed it all the same.
And the Upton, while OBVIOUSLY different tonally, is also underrepresented: so much lower output than all the others. I don't suggest that volume matching the Upton to the others will suddenly make the Upton sound really cool, but maybe it wouldn't sound so dramatically inferior.
My thinking is that the placement is a huge chunk of why Nadine sounds so good. I have an inexpensive Audix F90 condenser in roughly the same place, and it sounds great thru an amp. Yeah you need to EQ for the room, but with a sensitive mic so close to a resonant chamber such as an upright bass that is unavoidable.
Thanks for the review Jason - sounds great.
Thanks, Joe--it's a great mic!
Greetings Jason! Your rev 2 pickup placement needs adjustment. If it finds the SWEET spot it won't sound like what it is in this video. I would suggest to put it on the E string side and sort of move it around to find a warm sounding spot( normally placing it in the middle. )
Yeah, I realized that after listening-I’ll mess around and see if I can pull a better sound next time.
RE: The Upton REV sounding so thin.: It's only a little piezo - rather than move it around - it SHOULD be fed into a very hot input: 1 MEGA OHM . THAT is why you get a thin "quacky" sound. It will work plugged into anything - but they have huge resistance. A cheap but servicable preamp designed for a hot piezo input is what you need. A fishman or something by RADIAL.
@@willb3698 Hmm.. I doubt that it needs a very hot input. I've been using REV2 PU for more than 7 years and I never needed a additional gear to make it sound better( sorry better is probably the only word that I can come up with) The reason that it needs to be adjusted was mainly by observing that placement of the PU in this video and I myself have already experimented with mine years ago and found the SWEET spot it needed. I might be wrong but if the pu needs a additional gear to sound properly, then nobody would use it.
@@willb3698 REV pickup does have more mids and highs than the other pickups I 've used but it can be cutoff on the amp EQ.
I think Christian Mc bride mainly uses the dpa, there’s a virtual master class where he says that’s what he uses, I think that this mic is more about the looks than the sound. It does sound good but not as good as the dpa.
This is great Jason! Thank you.
Of course, I wanna now a deep-dive comparison, with not only the DPA but some other mics I've used in the past: AKG 414, U47, U87, AEA N8, ShureKSM32, Shure SM81, EV RE20, the ATM350, a 57 (everyman mic). This list could go on all day long.
Of course, distance matters. Curious how the Nadine fairs in comparison with itself (on a mic stand a little further away).
Thanks, Corbin! I just loaned the Nadine to a colleague, but when I get it back I’ll do a little more playing around with placement and A/B testing. More to come!
Nice box and presentación of the product
It seems like the levels weren't exactly matched, with the Zoom and the Rode being significantly louder in some of the tests (but not so much with the bow). Definitely all the mics sound way more natural than the pickup. They all sound a little different but pretty good. The Nadine actually picks up less of a scratchy sound from the bow due to its positioning, which is nice, while being a little less likely to feed back than a more distant mic would.
I've been wondering about miking classical solo work, as a "just in case" for a soloist to be heard over an orchestra in a larger hall, for instance trying to play a romantic cello concerto, since I suspect that could be a problem at times. If it sounds natural enough, a little bit of reinforcement could make a big difference in the feasibility of such performances. Or is a good soloist usually able to project well enough over an orchestra in a larger hall? I haven't actually been to any such concerts (just a bass duo with piano).
Yeah, good point about micing for solo classical. I think the Nadine would be awesome for that! It’s discreet and doesn’t seem to have a negative impact on the acoustic tone at all when mounted, so it could be a great choice for that.
Very nice mic. For a pizz player I think you might want to shorten your string afterlength to get the tailpiece a little further from the saddle. This will free up the tailpiece some so it can move with all that weight on it. 600 bucks though, sheesh. If you can play without smacking into it, you're probably better off with a mic off instrument. Just my opinion, if it quacks like a duck, it's a piezo.
Good idea!
Thx man....GREAT video...lots of info...
Hi Mr Heath, you said you use an zoom h6 for online teaching. What is exactly your mic combo (if you use more than the built in mic) and the placement of the recorder ? I can either put the zoom h4n pro or røde Nt1-a close to the bass but my voice sounds far and odd. The second option is using the mic close to my mouth, then the students see a huge device covering my face or arms.
A lav mic for my voice + a big mic for the bass is a good combo when making pre recorded tutorials. The question is how to optimise the audio of online teaching live… if you find any time for my problems. Cheers
Good question! I usually just put the H6 on a short tripod and have it a little below my bridge, just far enough away that I don't bow it (!). That seems to work for me. That plus a lav mic should get you good results.
At least on my system from best to worst 1 H6 - I own one, I know it's a great tool for room recording, still surprised me 2. The Nadine 3. The Rodes (it actually sounded better than the Nadine, but with the extra noise, and too much highs I gave it to the Nadine 4. The Revolution which I don't know but I don't believe they sound as bad (I sounded like your bass is made of paper). First thing you didn't level match, but it sounds like there where other issues as well.
thanks a lot for the comparison man :) Hey is the revolution solo piezo pickup really that thin? Can you try it with a active D.I. box? Idk if that is the actual sound of it or a impedance mismatch
Great review. Thanks, but... Comparing the ET mic to the Rode mic is revealing. I LOVE the low midrange presence of the ET mic, but it sounds quite dark in the upper frequencies. Is it friendly to EQ? Also, clearly the Upton pickup is thin as hell, I assume because it's being recorded without any processing? Was the impedance buffered somehow on the way in? The ET mics are gorgeous, and they look rugged as hell, which is a HUGE plus for anybody playing gigs.
Yeah, I like the ET mics. I didn’t do any signal processing for the Upton, which certainly would have helped. I haven’t used the ET in a live situation, but at home it seems to work great.
Great review! thanks! Does anyone have some experiences with feedback issues playing in louder bands? And does the Nadine needs phantom power?
Thanks! I believe that it does need phantom power. I haven’t used it in a group setting yet, but if anyone has experiences, let us know!
Love all your video but I am still figuring out what is the possible mic to plug to my iPad Pro connecting to Zoom Conference for zoom online lesson so that my son teacher could hear him play clearly. Using the current build in mic and have to Enable original sound on the setting is the only way possible now and it is clearly not good since you have to stand a distance away from the iPad front camera so that at least half the body of the bass could be seen. I wonder Jason or anyone has such experience to share LIVE ZOOM conference and how an external mic could be plug and capture the best sound from the double bass?
Woow!!!!
Great development,i.need one.
How can I get. this
Zoom 6 the best!
I agree. The H6 is great! I use it on Jamulus (near-real time collaborative performing app). My colleagues all say they really like the sound of my Bass (Chinese Jusek knockoff). I like the convenience of the Nadine for playing live. However, if you are playing thru a standard Bass Amp, you will need a 48v phantom power supply and a Low/Hi Impedance transformer.
Totally agree!!
Nadine, for amplified performances..
Ohh I want one :(
It’s a great mic!