It takes a good while to get even half decent at fishing wild waters. What the flow is like today, where the fish are likely to be in this temperature, time of year etc. These skills used to be honed over long experience in youth, perhaps aided by a more experienced angler if you were lucky. Nowadays we don't have the time & there are a host of other distractions to get your buzz much more quickly! There are gold fish bowls all around with a handy sandwich shop & cafe if you like- it's a guaranteed catch ! They will never experience the oneness with wildlife or the immersion into the natural way that I have, it has formed my soul & outlook in life. Times change.
As a 12/13 year old I had amazing perseverence. I look at my diaries from over 50 years ago to myself fishing twice a day in the summer holidays, unfazed by catches like one minnow, or two little dace, and just occasionally something better, always striving to get better and eventually succeeding, especially once I had a chance to watch better, older anglers. I did improve and quite quickly though when you see a picture of a five-year-old with his first double-figure carp or whatever, it is galling and lacks that struggle that made it all worthwhile - BTW I caught my first carp at 18, all of an ounce!
Great comment on modern day angling, Mark. I remember a small farm pond in the corner of a field where I lived as a kid. In the summer school holidays it packed with kids fishing, younger ones with dads or older brothers and 10 year olds + with mates or solo. It held a pressured stock of stunted crucian carp and a few perch. I can't imagine that scene nowadays - as you say, they'd be on carp pools or gaming at home now. Most low subscription clubs are fighting a losing battle with the carp commercials now, and the only clubs holding their own are the ones that purchased their fishing rights years ago. I know of a few waters that have simply been abandoned. I tried out a you tube video myself a few weeks ago to encourage anglers to support clubs rather than use day ticket waters, predictably it didn't do as well as my usual "come fishing with me" type videos. Unfortunately, as a rule, anglers are a little short sighted regarding the future of their sport! nice one Mark, look forward to the next. 👍👍
Hi Mark, that was a thought provoking piece. I am going to suggest to the Angling Society that I have belonged to for very many years that it puts a link to it in our next newsletter. Thanks.
Hi Mark, you’re completely right about today’s anglers. When I was growing up my father took me to so many places, both still water & running, both coarse & trout. The most important thing to learn was ‘watercraft’ which improved every aspect of my angling. However, today’s angler is mostly intent on knowing the ‘in form peg’ on the local carp puddle. My local (small) club has struggled for the last 2yrs - anglers sadly passing away, no young blood joining, landlords pressurising for higher rent - this is a club with just two small (1/2 acre) natural farm ponds, with a variety of species to an unknown/uncaught size. Proper fishing in my book. Our prices have had to be raised by 25% this year, just to break even on the rents, relying on donations to actually run/upkeep the club. It really saddens me to think, maybe as soon as next year, these ponds could be lost forever if we can’t keep the club running & keep the rent increase to a bare minimum. As with so many things - once these things have gone, they’re gone forever😢
Your completely correct in your thoughts. Is it evolution? Change is feared by all of us to a greater or lesser degree, maybe the annoying to us , canoe paddler,s paddle boarders, wild swimmers, newly ensconced countrysiders will fight for the rivers as we do ? I do hope so, glass half full 🤔🤔
Spot on Mark. Like you I am a Stour angler and six or so years ago I joined the Stalbridge club but it took a lot of searching to find someone to pay to get membership. Eventually I went and fished there until I met a member who told me to go to a certain filling station and ask for Mr A. I did so and my tenner went into a biscuit tin and I received a club card which had all the officials' names and contact numbers blanked out. Two years later a sign board was erected that announced the stretch of river was now under control of a larger and distantly based club. Good news is that I can get on-line exchange ticket.
Agree with everything said generally. From a regional perspective things may differ. Here in Norfolk, much of the wensum is privately owned so river clubs are expensive with waiting lists and stretches are small unless you fish the tidal Broads where again access is limited bur cheaper club tickets. Another issue is diminishing stocks in upper sections coupled with predation etc and little or no interest in river management to benefit recruitment etc. carp lakes appealing to youngsters no blanks easy access etc
You have nailed it Mark. The other comments endorse the concerns. I am retired, a committee member and a river guardian volunteer. There is a group of 8 of us (all retired) who meet several times a week We work on the banks of our brooks and rivers and the joy of seeing the fruits of our labour is so rewarding. We offer wild trout fishing, we have areas of stocked trout and we have good quality course fishing. The club was formed in 1876, and like everyone else, membership is a big concern. When 2 + 2 = 3, in terms of running costs, and when the reserves run out, cuts will be inevitable along with change of what is offered. I will still walk half a mile to my favourite swim (with less kit) and fish punched bread for roach and chub. I encourage any youngster to do the same, and fish the rivers. But life styles and society change are the real battle. As playing football and cricket have passed me by, I feel blessed to still have fishing in my life. Tight lines everyone!!
I don't think I've seen a youngster fishing bread punch for decades; I started on the punch when I was 14 back in 1971, encouraged by a top Bristol angler who used to holiday in Wareham.
It was someone who was a bit older, Sid Bruton. 20 years later I used to fish against Terry Bruton, one of Sid's sons, as well as Topper. Sid fished with a loaded peacock waggler, white crumb and punch on a 16, to catch roach at Wareham in summer.
A very relevant video. I've been having the same conversation myself. I think it's inevitable that venues will have to amalgamate as small clubs just aren't going to have the management any more. As you've said, it's important to maintain the fishing on these waters, no matter who runs them. As you pointed out, the attractive side of the sport is stillwaters and commercial type fisheries. This can be used to our advantage though as we use these to not only prop up the less popular venues but also continue to channel anglers on to the river to try something different. I'm currently working on a new project to network fisheries and their resources to the advantage of all. It would be great to have your input
A very poignant topic Mark. I have noticed this decline on rivers dramatically. I moved to the area i live now in 2011; at that point, my local club had rights to 12 stretches of river, totalling some 18 miles or so, and 1 club lake. Fast forward to today- and that club has 2 stretches of river and 5 or 6 lakes and gravel pits- and the ticket is twice the price of that in 2011. I dont blame the club- it is the way that angling has gone- but as a relatively "young" 47 yo angler, who fishes rivers 98% of the time, i do worry for the future.
@MarkWintleFishing all but one stretch has been lost to angling. The other stretch is now free fishing, but sadly not what it once was. I've heard through the grapevine that some farmers/ landowners are done with the EA red tape regarding fishing rights and would sooner lose the money. I don't know the ins and outs of this though.
Fabulous video Mark. My 1st fishing adventure was on the Avon at Ringwood where I lived. 5 years old. My cousin Alan Jones held me by the colar and showed me how to trot a,stick float. I can remember coach loads of anglers from London and Birmingham fishing matches at Ringwood. Anything under 6ins was returned. Those were lovely times but long gone. Give me a 3oz Roach trotting a river over a 1plb Carp on a commercial. We had the good times. The Canford stretch of the Stour seems devoid of fish. I left that club because that were I always fished but now I don't.
The numbers of anglers I witnessed at Wareham in the 70s doesn't bear thinking about. There was far more access to the banks and lots of youngsters fishing.
In the early 70s there were decent roach to a pound and a half, even in summer but 2lbers were fish of a lifetime, plenty of dace at times, with some good ones, but the big 2lb+ roach were later in the 80s onwards with several near collapses in the fishing. There may be a handful of big ones still in there but it's been very tough this winter. In summer some fun fishing to be had at times.
I agree with you Mark, although the Tiverton club down here in Devon seems to be doing okay but they do have the Tivvy Canal. One of the problems with the rivers is the reduction of stocks due to pollution and predation so there isn’t the Crabtree fishing we grew up with. The LAA has the advantage of being able to employ a full time bailiff on their Salisbury stretch and it’s wonderful, so it can be fought against but it takes money and commitment.
The problem is all over europe . Living in the “instant gratification” era no one wants to put in the time and effort to learn how to fish . Put some groundbait in the mould , insert bait cast and catch on stocked commercials . Don-t think the fault is with the clubs either , all commercials clips, short videos, tutorials etc done by big names sponsored by big companies are done in overwhelming majority on commercials . And they don-t want to do something for the sport “risking” promoting the beauty of it , they just want to show customers what to buy in order to make a selfie with a full cradle of fish . Selling dreams by killing sport .
Personally i wish we could scrap the rod licence fund for the EA and give our money to some other company who wants to actually look after our waterways. The EA in my opinion are a disgrace and i dont trust the AT as they are funded by the EA. At least the rivers may be saved that way.
I think the inclusion of the Angling Trust is Harsh. They amount of work and behind the scene action going on more than makes them a worthwhile Body. On top of that My Club has its Public Indemnity Insurance through them which actually saves in excess of £100 per annum. Current cost (2024) is £70. No issue with your comment regarding the EA.
I think your point is valid to a certain extend especially when you relate it to Flowing Water fishing. I run a small Club without Waters but fish Commercials only. Our Membership is on average 17 and has been since 1963. I think a number of Anglers who' would normally belong to a club spend a lot of their time fishing Local Opens in the hope of winning some cash.
Well said Mark totally on point. It’s the same in the West Mids/Shropshire area look how many works used to have fishing clubs. Large factories closed fishing clubs folded. Perfect storm really, probably more kids playing fishing games on consoles, phones & computers than actually fishing. Also as a lot of old landowners & farmers have passed their land on to their families who have sold to multi national corporations who then want extortionate fees for fishing rights. Add to this the pollution from modern farming practices and sewage you can sort of understand why kids don’t get involved in angling like we did in the 70’s I don’t think the EA are on the side of angling either but that’s another story.
I was in Barclays Bank AA which was a works club that Barclays closed many years ago along with all the other sports sections. They even had their own sports clubs.
Mark, you make many valid points, but in my opinion, they are where they are due to shortsightedness. Since the influx of commercial fisheries in the 90's along with the problem of educating migrant anglers into the ways we appreciate our sport, clubs have forgotten their roots in promoting angling within the immediate community and encouraging younger anglers into their membership. I firmly believe it is a clubs duty to have an active junior section and those who don't, should get zero support from the angling trust. The fact that angling and camping have morphed into one is another factor to be considered. As a river angler, I get as much pleasure from an 8oz Roach as some would for a double figure Barbel, and believe all rivers should be free to fish but still support the rod licence. I rarely see another angler at any of the remote areas I fish on the Kent and Sussex borders. I have no need or desire to join a club. Here is a quote from a poem I recently found,- No one owns the water No one owns the land, No one owns the oceans, No one owns the sand, These are given by our mother, The planet provides for free, Only by the hands of the greedy, Does the Earth require a fee.
Ive always loved river fishing. First time i went fishing with my dad many years ago was down thr local canal and then progressed on to regular river fishing trips. Which has always stuck with me reading the water, learning where fish may and may not be holding. Biggest bit for me with river fishing after returning after a break is the lack of parking facilities. Many a time you plan and trip and travel anything from 30 mile to 100 mile round trip to not being able to park, as there are only two car parking spaces etc or the tracks are so cut up its impossible to pass. Many a time in the past ive got stuck trying to park or access my local clubs river waters its just not worth it. I dont need parking at the back of my peg but i dont water to be stuck on grass verge. In a gate way or down a track. Owning 4x4 for one day a week or a bonus evening session just isnt viable for where i live.
@@MarkWintleFishing Also I think is clubs don't/can't modernise to attract new anglers. Contact information is hard to get hold of can't buy memberships online. Maps to sections haven't changed, or been updated or reflect changes. Maps poorly marked out just an image of map with no annotations Information and photos are a decade or more out of date. Directions to stretch and location very basic for example a club I remember using a bollard/wooden finger post as a reference point and on a national speed limit road I'm looking out for bollard/finger post... Just unbelievable I have in past offered to do updates either it's falls on deaf ears or the usual thats great we'll update the website with it that never happens so I can sympathise with your comment on a thankless task But on the other hand I've been and still are a member with some good small clubs.
I've been involved in the past in drawing maps in pen and ink with Letraset for wording, far easier now with Google maps and Photoshop to mark boundaries/paths/annotations, and whereas finding a postcode could be all but impossible on a country lane What3Words is even being used by one local club to mark boundaries. As you point out too many older officials have little grasp of the need for technology. Some local clubs are linking in to Clubmate which is a Godsend for exchange tickets as well as tracking subscriptions etc.
i was a mad keen matchman in the mid 80's..but young family curtailed that.. came back end of lockdown age 55... lots of carp ponds in kent with tackle shop and toilets and food etc... i take my partner along with me.. we have found a quiet venue.. we fish a double swim.. put the chairs fairly close together because she doesnt like taking the fish off.. plonk a few tangerine sized balls of of bait in the middle and fish either side of it , past it.. right in it..and have a great day catching anything.. bluetooth radio on quietly.. its 100x better than the 80's scratching for 2lb of silvers etc... we found a venue it is soo incredibly easy to catch 3-6lb carp EVERY cast we dont go there its too manic.. its a great day out in the summertime
I fished a stretch of the River Cherwell close to where I live in from around 1992to 2000 and in that time I caught tench, bream, roach, chub, carp, perch pike and eels up to a good size .That river has been destroyed since by predation, pollution etc and its barren of the fish stocks it once held given a choice of a club membership for that stretch £35 a year and a few trips to a commercial well I know where I,m going to catch.So little clubs are victims as well . Until the water company’s are made to clean up the rivers then this horrible trend will continue and I can’t see that happening any time soon.
Sadly, you have hit the nail on the head. Whilst I haven't been able to fish for various personal reasons for a while, something I'm hopefully going to change this year. But I do spend a lot of time on rivers and the decline in anglers , on these rivers is crazy, I doubt if I've seen 20 anglers in the past 3 years, and that is not an exaggeration. Admittedly a lot of the time is during the week, but would also account for at least every other weekend. Personally I think carp fishing is the biggest issue, its not for angling as a business, as it generates the biggest proportion to the income. But it's the fact that most youngsters coming into the sport go carp fishing, some stick at it but because its relatively easy at the commercials, they become bored. The days when I started fishing and you'd go to the local park pond with your mates, the banks would be shoulder to shoulder and you'd all be trying to catch the most of the small species, to prove you was the best, have long gone. The small fish play next to no part now. A friend took his son fishing when he was 14 for a few months he was right into it catching carp, he's now 21 and we had the conversation this week he got bored with it. As for the river's there is untold issues, with regard stock levels, which pollution is playing a big part in this, so numbers of smaller fish are just not coming thru, one stretch of the Stour, 12 years ago you could stand on a bridge and see massive shoals of roach some around the 2 lb Mark, Now your lucky to see anything. I think another issue with youngster recruitment to river fishing also stems from carp fishing, because the ones that stick to it prefer to make it a social event whereby they can set up camp for 2 or 3 days and it's basically a social event. This is much harder to do on rivers, but it's also the lack of fish to catch on rivers that doesn't help. It may well be too late, but until our rivers are in an acceptable condition, we are not going to be in a position to attract, youngsters to the sport other than to commercial's. Added to the other issues you mentioned, I think other clubs will fold. Those that are left should all be getting together with other river users to get the EA to do their job properly.
Spot on. As I think I mentioned this winter I've fished the Stour where there's been no evidence of it being fished in the first 7 months of the season. Even on the more popular stretches it's fairly quiet.
I live next to the river wear, as I child fishing was amazing, big trout rising for flies, course fish, loads of wildlife making being by the river a amazing experience, now there are hardly any fish, the trees have all been ruined by huge floods and finding privacy away from dog walkers etc is becoming impossible, it’s just not worth the cost, I pay it but it’s not worth it now
I do wish I could counter your argument with something positive, but sadly you have outlined the picture pretty well. So many clubs have simply relied on the membership returning each year and whilst this is true to some degree there is always a loss due to death, loss of interest, and moving to another club. It really needs some enthusiasm from the committee with new constructive ideas to promote the club in different ways. Otherwise any money that was sittin gin a 'reserve' fund will be used to pay for the licences as subscriptions will no longer cover current expenses. I'm sure all clubs needs some younger, talented (at running businesses), and enthusiastic people joining the committee and helping with the running of the club. Sadly, the commercials seem to a lot of them far more attractive and free from any work effort and dedication.
Started Fishing about a year ago,ive found most parks in Birmingham are just sh*te fishing, pulling in bin bags and clothes,would rather pay £10 to fish a nice venue with a good stock, I think people need to come together and rent the rights to the waterways in some parks idk
And all due credit to older members running clubs for years but have they not foreseen this happening? Work parties for bank clearance is ok but what about annual meets around recruitment of younger members and inspiring them in the art of river fishing on light tackle. The age demographic of anglers has been fairly consistent and this needs of to change
Mark, you're correct, and there's no one answer. But what lockdown did was give angling an insight into the problem. A moden dilemma where work demands that the individual works at full stretch to maximise profit . Angling doesn't fit this profile. The analogy has never been truer. "Time rich Cash poor. Time poor cash rich. "
Now I'm retired I find it harder to get out fishing due to carer commitments but get a buzz out of trying to make fishing videos. Weirdly this video which was one of the easiest I've ever made, is doing better than almost all.
@MarkWintleFishing honesty mark looking at the comments, that's what I thought. I think deep down anglers who love fishing rivers are what I would call discerning anglers and we feel our part of angling is slipping away.
Like many I started to use commercials but then became disillusioned because of the boring sameness of it. I'm now back into club fishing on weird and very mixed waters. Most days I'm sharing great ponds with only one or two other anglers - brilliant........
hi mark, you nether mentioned wareham club in any of this series of videos,, whats your thoughts, im sure they could be doing alot more or they could be ending up the same way
In these videos it wasn't my intention to pick up on individual clubs and what they might need to do. If you have suggestions for a particular club then contact them.
I can’t say this is true of the Trent or Wye, Ashfield currently have a waiting list of over 3000 and other smaller clubs have waiting lists, I think anglers are prepared to travel to obtain a good days fishing, there may not be the numbers of the 70’s but rivers go in cycles and anglers will follow the quality sport.
It's been many years since I fished the Trent but if I lived much nearer would I, as a float angler not boethered by needing to be on the 'hot' barbel swims, still being able to get on the river below Nottingham?
I had a proper look at some of the Trent clubs which was eye-opening compared to when I fished it in the late 80s, back in the days of Notts. Fed etc. Some of the same clubs are still around but obtaining club membership is far from easy and expensive. Conversely the decline of the famous 'Straights' in Leicester has led, as far as I can tell, to the complete disappearance of the legendary Leicester AS (Ivan Marks' club).
In my opinion Ashfield have been incredibly smart in raising awareness and indirectly marketing their stretches of the Trent via the countless Pro Match Anglers using their water to film TH-cam videos, also their partnership with Dave Harrell and support of the prestigious Riverfest event has truly put them front and centre when it comes to becoming the go to Trent club … fair play to them and absolute genius strategy by their leadership team 👏🏻 As for costs, my club owns a small stretch of Trent near Hoveringham/Bleasby and more on the upper river near Derby plus six miles of the lower Derbyshire Derwent (including Ivan Marks favourite stretch) … all this and more for £85 per year !! We can only afford to support this ticket due to other membership models that come at far greater cost but do include lots of game waters in the East Midlands and even a Salmon beat in Scotland… so I agree with you Mark, clubs are having to change the way they approach this very challenging but somewhat inevitable dynamic of aging membership, rising costs and most of all changing trends within our beloved sport. Tight Lines (Really appreciate your work - Keep the content coming)👍🏻🎣👍🏻
@@MarkWintleFishing As with most river fishing, there’s an element of adaptability, On the Trent if the rivers low i’ll trot, high and i’ll barbel fish, there’s great sport to be had either way. Barford, Stratford, Luddington on the Warks Avon have always been my local stretches but in recent years all the modern day issues have affected them badly and the Trent is within an hour, the roach and Ide are a current distraction and are managing to avoid predation and grow large.👍
the curse of angling at the moment is the likes of the essex matchmen buying up every set of fishing rights in sight throughout britain and turning them into commercial match puddles. Add to that the number of day ticket waters that are bought up by " syndicates" and pricing out the common pleasure angler soon it will be near impossible to find a day ticket water for the general angler to use
To much emphasis on getting as many carp/f1's into as many keepnets as possible, in 5 hours from complexes run as big businesses. Drive your car to the pegs, or as near as possible. Your vehicle is safe. Pay as you go. Waters and pegs looked after, grass cut, cafes and toilets on site. There can be little doubt, commercials have taken over big time, but do have lakes for pleasure anglers only. The club's I am a member of, are all members 50-85 years old. Never see youngsters. They are all at the commercials catching 200lb of carp like robots. Skills such as trotting, rolling leger, slider, and even waggler are being lost. It's all pole and method on dug out puddles now. The excitement of catching 20lb of roach on a stick float on a natural river, is in danger of being lost to all but a few of us older generations of anglers. It makes me wonder, if everyone who fishes commercials even bother to purchase a licence. I know of no commercial where an EA inspector comes around.
I've always thought that the rod and line licence acts as a barrier for younger people (who work long hours and have young families) who may only want to fish occasionally in the summer. they leave the sport and never return .
@@DepakoteMeister Yes that's true, but its rather like the death of the high Street,yet you still have to pay dearly for parking why bother.( Perhaps not for me and you) but for many sadly they just pick up the game console
@@nettiejackson9246 The game console that cost them many times more than a fishing licence? The death of the high street was somewhat inevitable I think, with landlords failing to see the writing on the wall and lowering rents, and the convenience of online shopping. I think the biggest detriment to our course fishing has been the carp fishing craze at the expense of all other species by many. My own local club lost stretches of two lovely little rivers, so it’s now just lakes, drains, and a large featureless river. And of course all the lakes have tackle busting carp in them along with all the normal species. I used to occasional fish at March Farm in Godalming, they have carp free lakes (well, they have crucians), an absolutely brilliant idea that I wish more venues would copy.
Anglers are taking the sport / pastime to their graces. Young people want to fish, but there’s less money and time for them to do so. Young anglers aren’t listens to instead, the old guard make sweeping assumptions and act poorly on their behalf.
@@Fishwish Why is there less time for young people to fish? And how much time does anyone need? Plenty of succesful angers nip out for one or two hour sessions. It's a viscous circle, people are drawn to carp fishing, so the manufacturers and shops cater for that. Try to find a budget float/match or quivertip rod that isn't built to handle carp, but instead is delicate enough to handle the light tackle and fine hooklengths one would use for the majority of other coarse species. The only new rods I can think of immediately (I am sure there must be others) are the Cadence #1 series, and they aren't budget rods.
To many rules doesnt help these days, Cant surface fish Cant use any floating baits Cant use Meat Cant use groundbait Cant use particle baits No shelf life baits Im not saying rules dont help overall, its just getting abit over the top now Another is when a club has 15000 members getting a peg is a nightmare now, its much easier just go to a commercial lake.
Sadly there is a cost to providing fishing whether that is rents, maintenance or stocking etc. I grew up fishing mainly free waters but most of where I fished is no longer accessible.
@@MarkWintleFishing not accessible due to private ownership I guess? When I was a kid it was the Thames, the Wey Navigation canal plus parks and commons all free. Sadly everything is so privatised and commercialised.
Baa suffered because of commercial fisheries compared to the natural water fishing is alot easier Also the carp only anglers all want fish over 30lb which small clubs cant afford to stock
The BAA was truly massive in the early 70s, possibly 70,000 members with grand plans. I don't know what the current figure is but a fraction of that amount.
I'm still fishing but haven't bought a rod licence in 2 years because it's just a stealth tax. When something meaningful starts happening with water quality and enforcement then I'll start paying again.
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It takes a good while to get even half decent at fishing wild waters. What the flow is like today, where the fish are likely to be in this temperature, time of year etc. These skills used to be honed over long experience in youth, perhaps aided by a more experienced angler if you were lucky. Nowadays we don't have the time & there are a host of other distractions to get your buzz much more quickly! There are gold fish bowls all around with a handy sandwich shop & cafe if you like- it's a guaranteed catch ! They will never experience the oneness with wildlife or the immersion into the natural way that I have, it has formed my soul & outlook in life. Times change.
As a 12/13 year old I had amazing perseverence. I look at my diaries from over 50 years ago to myself fishing twice a day in the summer holidays, unfazed by catches like one minnow, or two little dace, and just occasionally something better, always striving to get better and eventually succeeding, especially once I had a chance to watch better, older anglers. I did improve and quite quickly though when you see a picture of a five-year-old with his first double-figure carp or whatever, it is galling and lacks that struggle that made it all worthwhile - BTW I caught my first carp at 18, all of an ounce!
Great comment on modern day angling, Mark. I remember a small farm pond in the corner of a field where I lived as a kid. In the summer school holidays it packed with kids fishing, younger ones with dads or older brothers and 10 year olds + with mates or solo. It held a pressured stock of stunted crucian carp and a few perch. I can't imagine that scene nowadays - as you say, they'd be on carp pools or gaming at home now.
Most low subscription clubs are fighting a losing battle with the carp commercials now, and the only clubs holding their own are the ones that purchased their fishing rights years ago.
I know of a few waters that have simply been abandoned.
I tried out a you tube video myself a few weeks ago to encourage anglers to support clubs rather than use day ticket waters, predictably it didn't do as well as my usual "come fishing with me" type videos. Unfortunately, as a rule, anglers are a little short sighted regarding the future of their sport!
nice one Mark, look forward to the next. 👍👍
I seem to have had the opposite response with this video; after less than a week already in my top five videos!
Hi Mark, that was a thought provoking piece. I am going to suggest to the Angling Society that I have belonged to for very many years that it puts a link to it in our next newsletter. Thanks.
Hi Mark, you’re completely right about today’s anglers. When I was growing up my father took me to so many places, both still water & running, both coarse & trout. The most important thing to learn was ‘watercraft’ which improved every aspect of my angling. However, today’s angler is mostly intent on knowing the ‘in form peg’ on the local carp puddle. My local (small) club has struggled for the last 2yrs - anglers sadly passing away, no young blood joining, landlords pressurising for higher rent - this is a club with just two small (1/2 acre) natural farm ponds, with a variety of species to an unknown/uncaught size. Proper fishing in my book. Our prices have had to be raised by 25% this year, just to break even on the rents, relying on donations to actually run/upkeep the club. It really saddens me to think, maybe as soon as next year, these ponds could be lost forever if we can’t keep the club running & keep the rent increase to a bare minimum. As with so many things - once these things have gone, they’re gone forever😢
Your completely correct in your thoughts.
Is it evolution?
Change is feared by all of us to a greater or lesser degree, maybe the annoying to us , canoe paddler,s paddle boarders, wild swimmers, newly ensconced countrysiders will fight for the rivers as we do ?
I do hope so, glass half full 🤔🤔
Spot on Mark. Like you I am a Stour angler and six or so years ago I joined the Stalbridge club but it took a lot of searching to find someone to pay to get membership. Eventually I went and fished there until I met a member who told me to go to a certain filling station and ask for Mr A. I did so and my tenner went into a biscuit tin and I received a club card which had all the officials' names and contact numbers blanked out. Two years later a sign board was erected that announced the stretch of river was now under control of a larger and distantly based club. Good news is that I can get on-line exchange ticket.
Agree with everything said generally. From a regional perspective things may differ. Here in Norfolk, much of the wensum is privately owned so river clubs are expensive with waiting lists and stretches are small unless you fish the tidal Broads where again access is limited bur cheaper club tickets. Another issue is diminishing stocks in upper sections coupled with predation etc and little or no interest in river management to benefit recruitment etc. carp lakes appealing to youngsters no blanks easy access etc
You hit the nail on the head with youngsters going Carp fishing. I went carp fishing for while in the eighties. I found it boring.
You have nailed it Mark. The other comments endorse the concerns. I am retired, a committee member and a river guardian volunteer. There is a group of 8 of us (all retired) who meet several times a week We work on the banks of our brooks and rivers and the joy of seeing the fruits of our labour is so rewarding. We offer wild trout fishing, we have areas of stocked trout and we have good quality course fishing. The club was formed in 1876, and like everyone else, membership is a big concern. When 2 + 2 = 3, in terms of running costs, and when the reserves run out, cuts will be inevitable along with change of what is offered. I will still walk half a mile to my favourite swim (with less kit) and fish punched bread for roach and chub. I encourage any youngster to do the same, and fish the rivers. But life styles and society change are the real battle. As playing football and cricket have passed me by, I feel blessed to still have fishing in my life. Tight lines everyone!!
I don't think I've seen a youngster fishing bread punch for decades; I started on the punch when I was 14 back in 1971, encouraged by a top Bristol angler who used to holiday in Wareham.
That Bristol angler may have been "Topper" Haskins I would imagine? @@MarkWintleFishing
It was someone who was a bit older, Sid Bruton. 20 years later I used to fish against Terry Bruton, one of Sid's sons, as well as Topper. Sid fished with a loaded peacock waggler, white crumb and punch on a 16, to catch roach at Wareham in summer.
A very relevant video. I've been having the same conversation myself. I think it's inevitable that venues will have to amalgamate as small clubs just aren't going to have the management any more. As you've said, it's important to maintain the fishing on these waters, no matter who runs them. As you pointed out, the attractive side of the sport is stillwaters and commercial type fisheries. This can be used to our advantage though as we use these to not only prop up the less popular venues but also continue to channel anglers on to the river to try something different. I'm currently working on a new project to network fisheries and their resources to the advantage of all. It would be great to have your input
Contact me via Facebook.
A very poignant topic Mark. I have noticed this decline on rivers dramatically. I moved to the area i live now in 2011; at that point, my local club had rights to 12 stretches of river, totalling some 18 miles or so, and 1 club lake. Fast forward to today- and that club has 2 stretches of river and 5 or 6 lakes and gravel pits- and the ticket is twice the price of that in 2011. I dont blame the club- it is the way that angling has gone- but as a relatively "young" 47 yo angler, who fishes rivers 98% of the time, i do worry for the future.
Have other clubs taken over the fishing rights on those stretches of river, or are they simply lost to angling?
@MarkWintleFishing all but one stretch has been lost to angling. The other stretch is now free fishing, but sadly not what it once was. I've heard through the grapevine that some farmers/ landowners are done with the EA red tape regarding fishing rights and would sooner lose the money. I don't know the ins and outs of this though.
Fabulous video Mark.
My 1st fishing adventure was on the Avon at Ringwood where I lived. 5 years old.
My cousin Alan Jones held me by the colar and showed me how to trot a,stick float.
I can remember coach loads of anglers from London and Birmingham fishing matches at Ringwood.
Anything under 6ins was returned.
Those were lovely times but long gone.
Give me a 3oz
Roach trotting a river over a 1plb Carp on a commercial.
We had the good times.
The Canford stretch of the Stour seems devoid of fish.
I left that club because that were I always fished but now I don't.
The numbers of anglers I witnessed at Wareham in the 70s doesn't bear thinking about. There was far more access to the banks and lots of youngsters fishing.
@@MarkWintleFishing Wareham had such a reputation for big Roach. Never got to fish it. Are the Roach still there
In the early 70s there were decent roach to a pound and a half, even in summer but 2lbers were fish of a lifetime, plenty of dace at times, with some good ones, but the big 2lb+ roach were later in the 80s onwards with several near collapses in the fishing. There may be a handful of big ones still in there but it's been very tough this winter. In summer some fun fishing to be had at times.
@@MarkWintleFishing kids today have very little interest in trotting rivers.
We are a dying breed
I agree with you Mark, although the Tiverton club down here in Devon seems to be doing okay but they do have the Tivvy Canal. One of the problems with the rivers is the reduction of stocks due to pollution and predation so there isn’t the Crabtree fishing we grew up with. The LAA has the advantage of being able to employ a full time bailiff on their Salisbury stretch and it’s wonderful, so it can be fought against but it takes money and commitment.
The Salisbury club also have a full time keeper.
The problem is all over europe . Living in the “instant gratification” era no one wants to put in the time and effort to learn how to fish . Put some groundbait in the mould , insert bait cast and catch on stocked commercials . Don-t think the fault is with the clubs either , all commercials clips, short videos, tutorials etc done by big names sponsored by big companies are done in overwhelming majority on commercials . And they don-t want to do something for the sport “risking” promoting the beauty of it , they just want to show customers what to buy in order to make a selfie with a full cradle of fish . Selling dreams by killing sport .
Personally i wish we could scrap the rod licence fund for the EA and give our money to some other company who wants to actually look after our waterways. The EA in my opinion are a disgrace and i dont trust the AT as they are funded by the EA. At least the rivers may be saved that way.
I think the inclusion of the Angling Trust is Harsh. They amount of work and behind the scene action going on more than makes them a worthwhile Body. On top of that My Club has its Public Indemnity Insurance through them which actually saves in excess of £100 per annum. Current cost (2024) is £70. No issue with your comment regarding the EA.
I think your point is valid to a certain extend especially when you relate it to Flowing Water fishing. I run a small Club without Waters but fish Commercials only. Our Membership is on average 17 and has been since 1963. I think a number of Anglers who' would normally belong to a club spend a lot of their time fishing Local Opens in the hope of winning some cash.
I think of clubs like that as more a social club than a club with waters with the overheads of renting and maintaining fisheries.
Well said Mark totally on point. It’s the same in the West Mids/Shropshire area look how many works used to have fishing clubs. Large factories closed fishing clubs folded. Perfect storm really, probably more kids playing fishing games on consoles, phones & computers than actually fishing. Also as a lot of old
landowners & farmers have passed their land on to their families who have sold to multi national corporations who then want extortionate fees for fishing rights. Add to this the pollution from modern farming practices and sewage you can sort of understand why kids don’t get involved in angling like we did in the 70’s I don’t think the EA are on the side of angling either but that’s another story.
I was in Barclays Bank AA which was a works club that Barclays closed many years ago along with all the other sports sections. They even had their own sports clubs.
Mark, you make many valid points, but in my opinion, they are where they are due to shortsightedness. Since the influx of commercial fisheries in the 90's along with the problem of educating migrant anglers into the ways we appreciate our sport, clubs have forgotten their roots in promoting angling within the immediate community and encouraging younger anglers into their membership.
I firmly believe it is a clubs duty to have an active junior section and those who don't, should get zero support from the angling trust. The fact that angling and camping have morphed into one is another factor to be considered.
As a river angler, I get as much pleasure from an 8oz Roach as some would for a double figure Barbel, and believe all rivers should be free to fish but still support the rod licence. I rarely see another angler at any of the remote areas I fish on the Kent and Sussex borders. I have no need or desire to join a club.
Here is a quote from a poem I recently found,-
No one owns the water
No one owns the land,
No one owns the oceans,
No one owns the sand,
These are given by our mother,
The planet provides for free,
Only by the hands of the greedy,
Does the Earth require a fee.
Ive always loved river fishing.
First time i went fishing with my dad many years ago was down thr local canal and then progressed on to regular river fishing trips.
Which has always stuck with me reading the water, learning where fish may and may not be holding.
Biggest bit for me with river fishing after returning after a break is the lack of parking facilities. Many a time you plan and trip and travel anything from 30 mile to 100 mile round trip to not being able to park, as there are only two car parking spaces etc
or the tracks are so cut up its impossible to pass.
Many a time in the past ive got stuck trying to park or access my local clubs river waters its just not worth it.
I dont need parking at the back of my peg but i dont water to be stuck on grass verge. In a gate way or down a track.
Owning 4x4 for one day a week or a bonus evening session just isnt viable for where i live.
The parking is getting worse on the river stretches I fish.
@@MarkWintleFishing
Also I think is clubs don't/can't modernise to attract new anglers.
Contact information is hard to get hold of
can't buy memberships online.
Maps to sections haven't changed, or been updated or reflect changes.
Maps poorly marked out just an image of map with no annotations
Information and photos are a decade or more out of date.
Directions to stretch and location very basic for example a club I remember using a bollard/wooden finger post as a reference point and on a national speed limit road I'm looking out for bollard/finger post... Just unbelievable
I have in past offered to do updates either it's falls on deaf ears or the usual thats great we'll update the website with it that never happens so I can sympathise with your comment on a thankless task
But on the other hand I've been and still are a member with some good small clubs.
I've been involved in the past in drawing maps in pen and ink with Letraset for wording, far easier now with Google maps and Photoshop to mark boundaries/paths/annotations, and whereas finding a postcode could be all but impossible on a country lane What3Words is even being used by one local club to mark boundaries. As you point out too many older officials have little grasp of the need for technology. Some local clubs are linking in to Clubmate which is a Godsend for exchange tickets as well as tracking subscriptions etc.
i was a mad keen matchman in the mid 80's..but young family curtailed that.. came back end of lockdown age 55... lots of carp ponds in kent with tackle shop and toilets and food etc... i take my partner along with me.. we have found a quiet venue.. we fish a double swim.. put the chairs fairly close together because she doesnt like taking the fish off.. plonk a few tangerine sized balls of of bait in the middle and fish either side of it , past it.. right in it..and have a great day catching anything.. bluetooth radio on quietly.. its 100x better than the 80's scratching for 2lb of silvers etc... we found a venue it is soo incredibly easy to catch 3-6lb carp EVERY cast we dont go there its too manic.. its a great day out in the summertime
I fished a stretch of the River Cherwell close to where I live in from around 1992to 2000 and in that time I caught tench, bream, roach, chub, carp, perch pike and eels up to a good size .That river has been destroyed since by predation, pollution etc and its barren of the fish stocks it once held given a choice of a club membership for that stretch £35 a year and a few trips to a commercial well I know where I,m going to catch.So little clubs are victims as well . Until the water company’s are made to clean up the rivers then this horrible trend will continue and I can’t see that happening any time soon.
Although I occasionally had permits that included short stretches of the Cherwell near Oxford I've never actually fished it.
Sadly, you have hit the nail on the head. Whilst I haven't been able to fish for various personal reasons for a while, something I'm hopefully going to change this year. But I do spend a lot of time on rivers and the decline in anglers , on these rivers is crazy, I doubt if I've seen 20 anglers in the past 3 years, and that is not an exaggeration. Admittedly a lot of the time is during the week, but would also account for at least every other weekend. Personally I think carp fishing is the biggest issue, its not for angling as a business, as it generates the biggest proportion to the income. But it's the fact that most youngsters coming into the sport go carp fishing, some stick at it but because its relatively easy at the commercials, they become bored. The days when I started fishing and you'd go to the local park pond with your mates, the banks would be shoulder to shoulder and you'd all be trying to catch the most of the small species, to prove you was the best, have long gone. The small fish play next to no part now. A friend took his son fishing when he was 14 for a few months he was right into it catching carp, he's now 21 and we had the conversation this week he got bored with it. As for the river's there is untold issues, with regard stock levels, which pollution is playing a big part in this, so numbers of smaller fish are just not coming thru, one stretch of the Stour, 12 years ago you could stand on a bridge and see massive shoals of roach some around the
2 lb Mark, Now your lucky to see anything. I think another issue with youngster recruitment to river fishing also stems from carp fishing, because the ones that stick to it prefer to make it a social event whereby they can set up camp for 2 or 3 days and it's basically a social event. This is much harder to do on rivers, but it's also the lack of fish to catch on rivers that doesn't help.
It may well be too late, but until our rivers are in an acceptable condition, we are not going to be in a position to attract, youngsters to the sport other than to commercial's. Added to the other issues you mentioned, I think other clubs will fold. Those that are left should all be getting together with other river users to get the EA to do their job properly.
Spot on. As I think I mentioned this winter I've fished the Stour where there's been no evidence of it being fished in the first 7 months of the season. Even on the more popular stretches it's fairly quiet.
such a shame that river fishing skills are being lost, so much more enjoyable than sitting behind 3 carp rods
I live next to the river wear, as I child fishing was amazing, big trout rising for flies, course fish, loads of wildlife making being by the river a amazing experience, now there are hardly any fish, the trees have all been ruined by huge floods and finding privacy away from dog walkers etc is becoming impossible, it’s just not worth the cost, I pay it but it’s not worth it now
I do wish I could counter your argument with something positive, but sadly you have outlined the picture pretty well. So many clubs have simply relied on the membership returning each year and whilst this is true to some degree there is always a loss due to death, loss of interest, and moving to another club. It really needs some enthusiasm from the committee with new constructive ideas to promote the club in different ways. Otherwise any money that was sittin gin a 'reserve' fund will be used to pay for the licences as subscriptions will no longer cover current expenses. I'm sure all clubs needs some younger, talented (at running businesses), and enthusiastic people joining the committee and helping with the running of the club. Sadly, the commercials seem to a lot of them far more attractive and free from any work effort and dedication.
Started Fishing about a year ago,ive found most parks in Birmingham are just sh*te fishing, pulling in bin bags and clothes,would rather pay £10 to fish a nice venue with a good stock, I think people need to come together and rent the rights to the waterways in some parks idk
And all due credit to older members running clubs for years but have they not foreseen this happening? Work parties for bank clearance is ok but what about annual meets around recruitment of younger members and inspiring them in the art of river fishing on light tackle. The age demographic of anglers has been fairly consistent and this needs of to change
I just hope a few club officials read these comments.
Oh dear.. try fishing in Kent when a club ticket is £200 and £375.. syndicates are £1000 plus
The bigger Dorset clubs are just under £200 a year, syndicates from £400 upwards.
Mark, you're correct, and there's no one answer.
But what lockdown did was give angling an insight into the problem.
A moden dilemma where work demands that the individual works at full stretch to maximise profit . Angling doesn't fit this profile. The analogy has never been truer. "Time rich Cash poor. Time poor cash rich. "
Now I'm retired I find it harder to get out fishing due to carer commitments but get a buzz out of trying to make fishing videos. Weirdly this video which was one of the easiest I've ever made, is doing better than almost all.
@MarkWintleFishing honesty mark looking at the comments, that's what I thought. I think deep down anglers who love fishing rivers are what I would call discerning anglers and we feel our part of angling is slipping away.
Like many I started to use commercials but then became disillusioned because of the boring sameness of it. I'm now back into club fishing on weird and very mixed waters. Most days I'm sharing great ponds with only one or two other anglers - brilliant........
hi mark, you nether mentioned wareham club in any of this series of videos,, whats your thoughts, im sure they could be doing alot more or they could be ending up the same way
In these videos it wasn't my intention to pick up on individual clubs and what they might need to do. If you have suggestions for a particular club then contact them.
I can’t say this is true of the Trent or Wye, Ashfield currently have a waiting list of over 3000 and other smaller clubs have waiting lists, I think anglers are prepared to travel to obtain a good days fishing, there may not be the numbers of the 70’s but rivers go in cycles and anglers will follow the quality sport.
It's been many years since I fished the Trent but if I lived much nearer would I, as a float angler not boethered by needing to be on the 'hot' barbel swims, still being able to get on the river below Nottingham?
I had a proper look at some of the Trent clubs which was eye-opening compared to when I fished it in the late 80s, back in the days of Notts. Fed etc. Some of the same clubs are still around but obtaining club membership is far from easy and expensive.
Conversely the decline of the famous 'Straights' in Leicester has led, as far as I can tell, to the complete disappearance of the legendary Leicester AS (Ivan Marks' club).
In my opinion Ashfield have been incredibly smart in raising awareness and indirectly marketing their stretches of the Trent via the countless Pro Match Anglers using their water to film TH-cam videos, also their partnership with Dave Harrell and support of the prestigious Riverfest event has truly put them front and centre when it comes to becoming the go to Trent club … fair play to them and absolute genius strategy by their leadership team 👏🏻
As for costs, my club owns a small stretch of Trent near Hoveringham/Bleasby and more on the upper river near Derby plus six miles of the lower Derbyshire Derwent (including Ivan Marks favourite stretch) … all this and more for £85 per year !!
We can only afford to support this ticket due to other membership models that come at far greater cost but do include lots of game waters in the East Midlands and even a Salmon beat in Scotland… so I agree with you Mark, clubs are having to change the way they approach this very challenging but somewhat inevitable dynamic of aging membership, rising costs and most of all changing trends within our beloved sport.
Tight Lines (Really appreciate your work - Keep the content coming)👍🏻🎣👍🏻
@@MarkWintleFishing As with most river fishing, there’s an element of adaptability, On the Trent if the rivers low i’ll trot, high and i’ll barbel fish, there’s great sport to be had either way. Barford, Stratford, Luddington on the Warks Avon have always been my local stretches but in recent years all the modern day issues have affected them badly and the Trent is within an hour, the roach and Ide are a current distraction and are managing to avoid predation and grow large.👍
the curse of angling at the moment is the likes of the essex matchmen buying up every set of fishing rights in sight throughout britain and turning them into commercial match puddles. Add to that the number of day ticket waters that are bought up by " syndicates" and pricing out the common pleasure angler soon it will be near impossible to find a day ticket water for the general angler to use
To much emphasis on getting as many carp/f1's into as many keepnets as possible, in 5 hours from complexes run as big businesses. Drive your car to the pegs, or as near as possible. Your vehicle is safe. Pay as you go. Waters and pegs looked after, grass cut, cafes and toilets on site. There can be little doubt, commercials have taken over big time, but do have lakes for pleasure anglers only. The club's I am a member of, are all members 50-85 years old. Never see youngsters. They are all at the commercials catching 200lb of carp like robots. Skills such as trotting, rolling leger, slider, and even waggler are being lost. It's all pole and method on dug out puddles now. The excitement of catching 20lb of roach on a stick float on a natural river, is in danger of being lost to all but a few of us older generations of anglers. It makes me wonder, if everyone who fishes commercials even bother to purchase a licence. I know of no commercial where an EA inspector comes around.
I've always thought that the rod and line licence acts as a barrier for younger people (who work long hours and have young families) who may only want to fish occasionally in the summer. they leave the sport and never return .
Both daily and weekly rod licences are available.
@@DepakoteMeister Yes that's true, but its rather like the death of the high Street,yet you still have to pay dearly for parking why bother.( Perhaps not for me and you) but for many sadly they just pick up the game console
@@nettiejackson9246 The game console that cost them many times more than a fishing licence? The death of the high street was somewhat inevitable I think, with landlords failing to see the writing on the wall and lowering rents, and the convenience of online shopping. I think the biggest detriment to our course fishing has been the carp fishing craze at the expense of all other species by many.
My own local club lost stretches of two lovely little rivers, so it’s now just lakes, drains, and a large featureless river. And of course all the lakes have tackle busting carp in them along with all the normal species. I used to occasional fish at March Farm in Godalming, they have carp free lakes (well, they have crucians), an absolutely brilliant idea that I wish more venues would copy.
Anglers are taking the sport / pastime to their graces. Young people want to fish, but there’s less money and time for them to do so. Young anglers aren’t listens to instead, the old guard make sweeping assumptions and act poorly on their behalf.
@@Fishwish Why is there less time for young people to fish? And how much time does anyone need? Plenty of succesful angers nip out for one or two hour sessions. It's a viscous circle, people are drawn to carp fishing, so the manufacturers and shops cater for that. Try to find a budget float/match or quivertip rod that isn't built to handle carp, but instead is delicate enough to handle the light tackle and fine hooklengths one would use for the majority of other coarse species. The only new rods I can think of immediately (I am sure there must be others) are the Cadence #1 series, and they aren't budget rods.
To many rules doesnt help these days,
Cant surface fish
Cant use any floating baits
Cant use Meat
Cant use groundbait
Cant use particle baits
No shelf life baits
Im not saying rules dont help overall, its just getting abit over the top now
Another is when a club has 15000 members getting a peg is a nightmare now, its much easier just go to a commercial lake.
Hook a duck and insane costs killed it. Fishing should be free bar a rod licence.
Sadly there is a cost to providing fishing whether that is rents, maintenance or stocking etc. I grew up fishing mainly free waters but most of where I fished is no longer accessible.
@@MarkWintleFishing not accessible due to private ownership I guess? When I was a kid it was the Thames, the Wey Navigation canal plus parks and commons all free. Sadly everything is so privatised and commercialised.
The actual fishing is still free but the bank access has mostly gone due to moorings.
Baa suffered because of commercial fisheries compared to the natural water fishing is alot easier
Also the carp only anglers all want fish over 30lb which small clubs cant afford to stock
The BAA was truly massive in the early 70s, possibly 70,000 members with grand plans. I don't know what the current figure is but a fraction of that amount.
I can't take commercials seriously. You could hair rig Maltesers or jelly beans and catch, purely on stock numbers.
How many anglers who exclusively fish commercials actually belong to their local club?
Why would they if the exclusively fish commercials?
Suits me though, keeps the rivers quiet for those who prefer proper fishing 😉
Some of our local clubs have concessions whereby you can fish local commercials on your club book.
Are u related to Lance Wintle?
Not that I know of!
@@MarkWintleFishing ok he was frm hampton middlesex?
No relatives from that neck of the woods.
I'm still fishing but haven't bought a rod licence in 2 years because it's just a stealth tax. When something meaningful starts happening with water quality and enforcement then I'll start paying again.
Could be a costly exercise if you get caught!