When I was a teenager I was heavily into sound engineering and spent quite a bit of time at my friend's recording studio. This would be my dream device at that time. I actually had a quite sophisticated DSP setup but using a Sound Blaster card with kX Project drivers (seriously, look them up, they were and still are totally bonkers) and that setup also included a mic processing chain for high quality swearing.
It's incredible, when I started with electronics it was almost all analog, guru magicians like Sir Clive Sinclair, Steve Jobs, etc. were beginning to create magic. I worked in radio, in fact as a hobby I was finishing making an RF generator that I had left abandoned. Not like any of the ones we had in the factory where I was working (I used an HP606B) but it's very stable, the most complicated thing is to make the attenuators well isolated and to know, for example, that there is an exact microvolt at the output. Nowadays everything is DSP, an RF generator can be made with DSP, a radio, and a frequency meter, including systems that operate at several gigahertz. I was wondering why Analog Devices was still around, and look at the datasheet for one of their AD or DA converters, it's amazing. In conclusion, I loved your RPM 88 (especially now that it has improved)
CuriousMarc had some RF generators (if I remember right) which were 100% analogue. The analogue wizardry behind them is nothing short than amazing. Today: a few ICs and it's all done. If you think about sound, back then to have some cool sound effects you were using motors and metal plates and microphones... :) Thanks for watching!
@@Tony359_2 nowadays it is simple to know how to program and have the elements. To have a sinusoidal signal of several tens or hundreds of Mhz, I suppose you need some chip as an Analog Devices IC capable of generating an analog signal of those frequencies. Or a DSP and the knowledge to program it. Whatever, doing it analog is more fun.
Great work Tony! I have one of those little buck converters I use for a LED light on my microscope. Amscope had some mains board that would go down to 3.3v DC for it. When I converted it to a vesa arm I figured I'd just use a 5v wall adapter. Safer that way. Also those damn silicone things suck. I tried to reuse them on a Dell I worked on and just said screw it and used regular old PC case fan screws.
I'd be tempted to go back and use the screws too... maybe with some rubber washers. What a pain! Switching supplies and sound are never good friends. Clearly the original fan was not sending anything back through the supply line, if I had used the buck converter I would have had NOISE with some actual movie sound in the background! :) Those little RC filters work wonders! Thanks for watching!
I quite often use an inductor instead of a resister in your noise filter for the fan. But with a resistor you have the added effect of reducing the supply voltage I suppose. I am afraid audio is not on my radar I am 66 have had chemotherapy which has affected my hearing and given me permanent Tinnitus.
I think I tried an inductor before and didn't work but I used what I had available and yes, as you say the resistor gives me the extra advantage of reducing the voltage. On the other machine I work on, I need to drop 15V to 11V so the resistor has the double role of being part of the RC filter AND reducing the voltage. I'm sorry to hear about your health situation, I hope all goes well and I see you many more of your comments here or elsewhere! :)
The only reason I commented on this video is because of the thumbnail. I come from a military (Navy) background. The term "Make A Hole" is ingrained to about anyone that has military background. To the unfamiliar, it means - "Get out of the way!!"'
Buck converter is not "ideal" for fans. You should be using pwm motor controllers instead. They cost even less and drive the motors a lot better. (bigger range, especially to lower side before stalling) But considering the noise aspect, diodes and resistors are the best options here. (y)
@@Tony359_2 yes, you can pwm-control the supply voltage. This is how the 2 and 3 pin fans' control worked. Only 4 pin fans have separated the pwm out. The mechanism is identical to driving LEDs. LEDs aren't loving the lower voltage too much, but do like pwm supply. (in terms of "dynamic range")
@@GigAHerZ64 I'd have to strongly disagree with you here. Pulse width modulating the fan's supply is fairly unusual. We usually see N-channel mosfets used for this, and they're on the low side (ground side) of the fan. So let me explain to you why it might very much not be a good idea: Don't send out PWM-modulated power to the fans on their power inputs. Many fan datasheets specify you should not do it and that it will void their guarantees. As for the actual effect? A good number of fans will behave unexpectedly, have very nonlinear characteristics and be finicky when their power is PWM-modulated. There are even a good number of fans out there that will wildly misbehave when you try to PWM-modulate their power supply lines, but work fine when it is voltage-controlled (i.e. a lower consistent voltage). Why? Because the controller inside the fan that commutates the poles *needs* to do that sequentially for timing reasons, and at times this interrupted power supply can severely hamper the functioning. Moveover, it creates extra noise (both electrically as well as acoustically) as this modulated signal has its own harmonics and square waves are notoriously approximate to "all the noises, everywhere, all at once". Acoustic noise can be battled by raising the frequency of switching, but it will come at the cost of controllability. Since N-channel mosfets are most often used for this purpose, all of this gets worse if you try to use the tachometer signal. Without a ground connection consistently there, the pullup resistor connected to the tacho pin has no current path for the time the MOSFET on the ground line is switched off, giving rise to very inaccurate readings *and* a likelihood of noise disturbance as the fan is still an inductive load. In many of my hobby circles, there's active efforts and reasons to not use a PWM-modulated power line for fans, and we actively seek out the solutions to this otherwise cheap method.
@@GigAHerZ64 LED's having PWM contrl is not about loving or hating a lower voltage. It is simply about their voltage drop. PWM control exploits the optical illusion of persistence of vision to overcome the limitations of the control range imposed by this minimum voltage drop. PWM control on LED's is hence in no other way better than for that reason.
Ah good point though there are two or three boards sandwiched together so it might have been difficult to see much with a thermal cam. From just feeling the unit, it's the PSU which gets hot and if the airflow is not enough it warms up the whole case. It still gets a bit warm now but it's very acceptable I think.
Funny fan video. As a real fanatic, you're transmitting all the fun on-the-flow testing. Funny piece of hardware, finding one at a fine price is not fun. No fun finding the filthy fan noise began. Pun intended 😆
Tony, my dearest maker! Please don't lubricate silicone items with silicone grease. The silicone grease will diffuse into the silicone rubber of the thing you're lubricating, with the result of at the very least swelling and at the worse end, complete destruction. It's the same issue as with petrol based greases and latex rubbers. Petroleum for silicone items, silicone grease for rubber items.
Hello - thank you! That lubricant is Super-Lube, it says "synthetic lubricant", does that mean silicone? I know it's plastic safe so I thought it was suitable. Anyways if those horrendous things dissolve, it's a good thing :) But thanks, I'll keep that in mind, cheers!
![ภาพนี้ก็ฮาเหมือนกันนะเนี้ย #2 SS8 [ พากย์นรก MEME.EXE ] | easy boy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RMhUgxxD49Q/mqdefault.jpg)
22:48 Maremmamaiala!
ahahah! Volevo quasi taggarti poi non volevo farti perdere tempo ma l'hai trovato lo stesso! :D
A Tony video featuring professional audio hardware?? Two of my favourite things!
Sound is one of my passions! :)
When I was a teenager I was heavily into sound engineering and spent quite a bit of time at my friend's recording studio.
This would be my dream device at that time. I actually had a quite sophisticated DSP setup but using a Sound Blaster card with kX Project drivers (seriously, look them up, they were and still are totally bonkers) and that setup also included a mic processing chain for high quality swearing.
Fascinating! Thank you.
Thank you too!
It's incredible, when I started with electronics it was almost all analog, guru magicians like Sir Clive Sinclair, Steve Jobs, etc. were beginning to create magic. I worked in radio, in fact as a hobby I was finishing making an RF generator that I had left abandoned. Not like any of the ones we had in the factory where I was working (I used an HP606B) but it's very stable, the most complicated thing is to make the attenuators well isolated and to know, for example, that there is an exact microvolt at the output.
Nowadays everything is DSP, an RF generator can be made with DSP, a radio, and a frequency meter, including systems that operate at several gigahertz. I was wondering why Analog Devices was still around, and look at the datasheet for one of their AD or DA converters, it's amazing.
In conclusion, I loved your RPM 88 (especially now that it has improved)
CuriousMarc had some RF generators (if I remember right) which were 100% analogue. The analogue wizardry behind them is nothing short than amazing. Today: a few ICs and it's all done.
If you think about sound, back then to have some cool sound effects you were using motors and metal plates and microphones... :)
Thanks for watching!
@@Tony359_2 nowadays it is simple to know how to program and have the elements. To have a sinusoidal signal of several tens or hundreds of Mhz, I suppose you need some chip as an Analog Devices IC capable of generating an analog signal of those frequencies. Or a DSP and the knowledge to program it. Whatever, doing it analog is more fun.
Great work Tony! I have one of those little buck converters I use for a LED light on my microscope. Amscope had some mains board that would go down to 3.3v DC for it. When I converted it to a vesa arm I figured I'd just use a 5v wall adapter. Safer that way. Also those damn silicone things suck. I tried to reuse them on a Dell I worked on and just said screw it and used regular old PC case fan screws.
I'd be tempted to go back and use the screws too... maybe with some rubber washers. What a pain!
Switching supplies and sound are never good friends. Clearly the original fan was not sending anything back through the supply line, if I had used the buck converter I would have had NOISE with some actual movie sound in the background! :)
Those little RC filters work wonders! Thanks for watching!
Move the powersupply out to be external in it own case, then your device will not have an internal heating device
There's no such thing as "overkill" :D
ahahah correct! :)
Aaaa! I want to read the Translation of the strange letters at the grill part 4 😂
ahahaha! It's nothing nasty, just my Italian "Tuscan" self coming up! 😂
Do you have a ground loop, maybe? Kill the grounding to the speakers, if you have active speakers, or the earth for the amp.
No, the noise was visible just directly connected to the focusrite - despite all the noise from the power supply! :)
I quite often use an inductor instead of a resister in your noise filter for the fan.
But with a resistor you have the added effect of reducing the supply voltage I suppose.
I am afraid audio is not on my radar I am 66 have had chemotherapy which has affected my hearing and given me permanent Tinnitus.
I think I tried an inductor before and didn't work but I used what I had available and yes, as you say the resistor gives me the extra advantage of reducing the voltage. On the other machine I work on, I need to drop 15V to 11V so the resistor has the double role of being part of the RC filter AND reducing the voltage.
I'm sorry to hear about your health situation, I hope all goes well and I see you many more of your comments here or elsewhere! :)
The only reason I commented on this video is because of the thumbnail. I come from a military (Navy) background. The term "Make A Hole" is ingrained to about anyone that has military background. To the unfamiliar, it means - "Get out of the way!!"'
At least it doesn't mean anything nasty! :)
Thanks for that, I'll try to find a different title!
Buck converter is not "ideal" for fans. You should be using pwm motor controllers instead. They cost even less and drive the motors a lot better. (bigger range, especially to lower side before stalling)
But considering the noise aspect, diodes and resistors are the best options here. (y)
Even if the fan is not PWM? Or are you suggesting to get a PWM fan and a PWM controller?
@@Tony359_2 yes, you can pwm-control the supply voltage. This is how the 2 and 3 pin fans' control worked. Only 4 pin fans have separated the pwm out.
The mechanism is identical to driving LEDs. LEDs aren't loving the lower voltage too much, but do like pwm supply. (in terms of "dynamic range")
@@GigAHerZ64 interesting, I wasn't aware of that, thanks!
@@GigAHerZ64 I'd have to strongly disagree with you here. Pulse width modulating the fan's supply is fairly unusual. We usually see N-channel mosfets used for this, and they're on the low side (ground side) of the fan. So let me explain to you why it might very much not be a good idea:
Don't send out PWM-modulated power to the fans on their power inputs. Many fan datasheets specify you should not do it and that it will void their guarantees.
As for the actual effect? A good number of fans will behave unexpectedly, have very nonlinear characteristics and be finicky when their power is PWM-modulated. There are even a good number of fans out there that will wildly misbehave when you try to PWM-modulate their power supply lines, but work fine when it is voltage-controlled (i.e. a lower consistent voltage).
Why? Because the controller inside the fan that commutates the poles *needs* to do that sequentially for timing reasons, and at times this interrupted power supply can severely hamper the functioning. Moveover, it creates extra noise (both electrically as well as acoustically) as this modulated signal has its own harmonics and square waves are notoriously approximate to "all the noises, everywhere, all at once". Acoustic noise can be battled by raising the frequency of switching, but it will come at the cost of controllability.
Since N-channel mosfets are most often used for this purpose, all of this gets worse if you try to use the tachometer signal. Without a ground connection consistently there, the pullup resistor connected to the tacho pin has no current path for the time the MOSFET on the ground line is switched off, giving rise to very inaccurate readings *and* a likelihood of noise disturbance as the fan is still an inductive load.
In many of my hobby circles, there's active efforts and reasons to not use a PWM-modulated power line for fans, and we actively seek out the solutions to this otherwise cheap method.
@@GigAHerZ64 LED's having PWM contrl is not about loving or hating a lower voltage. It is simply about their voltage drop. PWM control exploits the optical illusion of persistence of vision to overcome the limitations of the control range imposed by this minimum voltage drop. PWM control on LED's is hence in no other way better than for that reason.
Surprised you didn't try a thermal camera to see what gets hot.
Ah good point though there are two or three boards sandwiched together so it might have been difficult to see much with a thermal cam. From just feeling the unit, it's the PSU which gets hot and if the airflow is not enough it warms up the whole case. It still gets a bit warm now but it's very acceptable I think.
Funny fan video. As a real fanatic, you're transmitting all the fun on-the-flow testing. Funny piece of hardware, finding one at a fine price is not fun. No fun finding the filthy fan noise began. Pun intended 😆
This replaced my Behringer DCX2496 - the improvement in sound quality was perceivable so I hope it lasts for a long time! :)
@@Tony359_2 I would like to have your knowledge one day. My current "sound system" sucks.... Amazing system....
Well, in this case it's not just me tinkering, it's been my main job for 25 years :) Though, I definitely started tinkering on that too :)
@@Tony359_2 That definitely helps. Looking forward to more crossovers between hobby and professional experience 🙂
@@minombredepila1580 I have wanted to make a video about my 35mm projector for ages! :)
Tony, my dearest maker! Please don't lubricate silicone items with silicone grease. The silicone grease will diffuse into the silicone rubber of the thing you're lubricating, with the result of at the very least swelling and at the worse end, complete destruction. It's the same issue as with petrol based greases and latex rubbers.
Petroleum for silicone items, silicone grease for rubber items.
Hello - thank you! That lubricant is Super-Lube, it says "synthetic lubricant", does that mean silicone? I know it's plastic safe so I thought it was suitable. Anyways if those horrendous things dissolve, it's a good thing :)
But thanks, I'll keep that in mind, cheers!
@@Tony359_2 I was always under the impression they make it on a silicone oil base. I can check to make sure though!