Wooden cups are traditionally boiled in water for a while to help finish them. That will leach the remaining oils and other impurities that the tree absorbed while it grew. Boil it and try again, worst that can happen is either the cup splits and you have to seal it or it just goes back to being a pencil cup/vase.
@Green Sea Ideally you'd boil it several times, until the water is clear, but you may be able to find a better answer elsewhere for the specific wood you are using.
I have asked one 'food safe' epoxy maker to show me an ingredients list. My guess is most of them use BPS instead of BPA, which would really not make them all that food safe. I would love some more information on the topic!
Nearly all finishes are food safe when dry. They might be toxic to ingest the chips if they start flaking off, but are not water soluble, so they won't dissolve in your food or drink. Unless you use shellac and drink alcohol.
I have a 260 pound Fisch drill press, with a 5/8" chuck, and it does the same thing when drilling with a large forstner bit, into osage orange and hickory knots. Some wood is just too hard.
Andy, love what you're doing. Really impressive how close to round you got it with the hand planes. I am a turner and make many of those (though not out of osage). General finishes has a food safe salad bowl finish that I use. It take several coats, letting them fully cure and sanding back between coats. Then you have to let them sit on the shelf for a few weeks, until the odors from the finish fade away. I only make them as custom orders now, the finish time makes them very expensive.
Another great project and video! You do well at showing what needs to be done without saying it or even over-emphasizing anything. Also I think the placement of your ad was really well done -- later into the video when you know your viewers were willing to watch, and right when you were about to spend awhile sanding and buffing; it let us know where your project was going while also making me feel like the ad wasn't a burden at all.
Don't give up on it! I made a knife handle out of osage orange recently, and it leached orangy-yellow when it got wet for a while. Eventually it all leached out and the wood turned a nice mahogany shade of brown. Maybe just weight it down and steep in water for a couple of days?
That hole into endgrain would be exactly the kind of thing to do on the lathe - with the forstner bit, but on the lathe, makes it much faster and easier.
Osage Orange has a Hugh level of tannins in it. If present in food or drink, it gives the bitter, astringent flavor. The tannins oxidizing over time is what gives Osage the darker color change over time from either light exposure or ammonia fuming. Not sure if the “leaching” into the coffee would be improved/eliminated once the oxidation has occurred and it’s darkened up.
One recommendation, Always place clamp handle on the left side of the piece. First it allows to to use it as a grip with your left hand while you plunge with your right. Second and most importantly, if the handle is in the right, if the drill bit were to grab and rip it around it would slam right into you! If I’m the left it will swing AWAY from you, and only hit the drill press.
All you have to do is coat the inside of it with a pour-on epoxy (the kind they use to cover counter-tops and stuff). That'll seal it up. You can get small amounts of it at hobby shops.
Osage orange or hedge as it is known in Missouri, is a very tough wood that makes excellent fence posts (it doesn't rot) and pretty good tool handles. The yellow color will oxidize into a deep brown in a short while. The biggest thing is keeping it from cracking as it seasons.
Paint the inside with a coat or two of epoxy, preferably marine. But like several have said, boiling wooden utensils is supposed to neutralize any noxious flavors. I'd do that carefully, though, because Osage Orange might crack if treated that way.
In Brazil there is a kind of wood container that the oldest people used to use for water, they have a bitter taste too, but they leave a couple days in water bath and the bitter and colour that comes from the wood goes away... You can try it out
The Finnish use birch burls to make coffee mugs called Kuksa, they soak them in salt water before carving them. The coffee actually seals the wood, due to the oils in it. The first month is a bit salty, but then they’re great for coffee, and whiskey.
It's always a pleasure to see you Andy. I have never seen Osage Orange before. No Idea it was that hard or as beautiful ! Bummer on the taste transfer bud. You bet I will go check this engraver out.
Birch is probably your best bet for making cups/mugs. the Finn's typically carve a traditional "Kuksa" from it and i hear they have a really good birch sap drink to go with it too!
I've made a few bows out of Osage. I was not surprised by the drilling of it and I kept thinking how is he going to seal it. Crazy stuff has so much yellow in it. But leave it in the sun a while and its going to turn a deep brown... Very cool wood for bows though
My favorite wood of all time. Such a beautiful wood not as fun to work with though. I've got some cuttings from my grandfather's ranch they are about 70 years old. They are some of the first fence posts he cut when he bought the place.
It looks good, man. You could always coat it with epoxy or a thick layer of beeswax. I’ve got some beer mugs that I made over a year ago that hold up great with epoxy.
Awesome cup. If you could turn your lathe on the slowest speed you could “paint” some food safe epoxy on the inside. The slow speed will keep it from puddling and give it and even finish. I’ve done this with beer steins.
Only thing I make out of osage orange are police nightsticks. The ones issued in my town are made of pine. Copy them like a spindle and paint it black. They sell well
Boiling the cup in extremely salty water will help drive the oils and flavors out of it. Look into making a kuksa. Mainly the treating of the wood traditionally used on a kuksa. You could also line the cup with brewers pitch.
I'm a new subscriber. I love watching you take a plain piece of wood, a plank or a piece of wood from a tree and make something very beautiful with it.
First wide shot of the drill press, I noticed the motor jumping on it's mounts like the lock nuts are backing off. Maybe check the lineup using the mounting bolts to push the motor back and offset the stretched belt. I also bet that mill could make a hell of a stout motor mount bracket replacement
Thanks Andy, I am very impressed with the completed project. I would have not thought of using a plane to make a round object. Mad props! I love osage orange for many of my projects. lately knife scales. Thanks again, keep up the good work. fred
I wonder if it was used for a long time whether the coffee would flavor the cup. Coffee is acidic. I would think that sooner or later it would leech out the oils and replace them with coffee flavor. But I guess the issue would be that 1. It would probably take forever, drinking crappy tasting coffee. and 2. By the time the cup was good to go, it would probably split and you would have to start over. Maybe try leaving coffee in it during the day. See what it does after a couple weeks of fresh coffee each day. (don't drink it, just let it work on it)
Osage orange contains tetrahydroxystilbene which may explain it's decay resistance according to Michael Dirr's Manual of Woody Plants. Maybe pencil holder or mother in law cup best use lol.
What if you coated the inside in an epoxy? After epoxy cures it’s food safe and should keep the bitterness out. Chuck it up in the lathe and set to super slow to get a smooth finish?
I love it! Osage is my favorite. The burls and colors you can get are great. It can be a bit of a challenge to work though. As others have said, a good food safe sealer or epoxy would take care of that flavor issue, but then your wife wouldn't get an awesome vase.
Bro I know it’s your shop but those babies of yours will be a beautiful SIGHT as they grow older. Shame to miss that due to not wearing eye protection when operating power equipment! Safety First! Thanks and have a successful New Year!
Coat the interior in molten beeswax. That should eliminate the taste problem. It's what's used in drinking horns. But yeah, no hot liquids unless you want those organic flavours seeping through.
White oak adds a sort of vanilla flavor to everything. I turned a bunch of cups out of it a few years ago, kind is an odd sensation. Drinking an IPA out of one and there’s a vanilla finish on it.
You might be able to soak out the tannins. Also maple or oak might be good for making mugs, especially beer mugs. Back in ye oldie times they would coat the inner parts of wood or leather drinking vessels with woodpitch glue and/or beeswax. Beeswax might be good here, maybe not as a coffee mug but just as a normal cup.
You need to tighten the moter on your drill press i had the same problem with the same press. Losen the 2 blue knobs right behing the plate for the moter one on each side and put a pry bar behind that plate and it will move esay but pry the moter back and when it gets tight then tighten the 2 knobs up and it wont stop the bit like that any more.
You should try boiling the cup for a while, that might take some of the tannins out of it. Also if you drill/gouge perpendicular to the grain instead of parallel, it would be easier... also you’d end up with nice grain patterns
And mineral oil is a laxative, so you'd want to be careful about how much of that finish you applied, since it doesn't cure. Food safe epoxy is the way to go, or line the cup with metal / ceramic
You need to coat the inside with food safe epoxy. It'll also protect the wood. White oak probably wouldn't have done much better. It contains a lot of tannic acid, which is also very bitter.
You could seal the inside with food-safe resin or some kind of food-safe varnish. But if you like natural stuff, Beeswax could seal the wood and does not taste bad.
Hi Andy. You could try and put on several coats of epoxy on the inside to seal the wood from the coffee. Seems a shame not to use it for what it was intended for. Plus it will be easier to clean
I'm wondering if boiling it might have helped? There are those in the green woodworking scene that know a lot about turning endgrain cups etc. Great video though, good to see an update with lessons learned, it shows modesty. Thanks
Man that wood looked really nice to work with. I have been looking at all the distributors around my area within reason (150 miles) and no one carries it.
if it smells, it is bad for contact with food. smell means essential oils or resin. Both things you dont want to be in your food because they change the flavor and might even be pretty unhealthy. Just take Maple. Doesn't have any of that, and also no natural tanning agents like oak. those are for example the reason why you get black fingers after working with it for a while
You should try the Bormax 3 (carbide) Forstner drill from FAMAG. I bought two of them for endgrain drilling and never looked back. They are very expensive but I never regreted it.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
Wooden cups are traditionally boiled in water for a while to help finish them. That will leach the remaining oils and other impurities that the tree absorbed while it grew. Boil it and try again, worst that can happen is either the cup splits and you have to seal it or it just goes back to being a pencil cup/vase.
Nice bit of info, thanks
@Green Sea Ideally you'd boil it several times, until the water is clear, but you may be able to find a better answer elsewhere for the specific wood you are using.
i would've kept it just in case someone i hated came over and asked for a cup of water/tea/etc.
thank for share!
Would you boil it before of after shaping it into a cup
Can't you use food safe epoxy to waterproof it and protect from flavour/colour transfer?
I have asked one 'food safe' epoxy maker to show me an ingredients list. My guess is most of them use BPS instead of BPA, which would really not make them all that food safe. I would love some more information on the topic!
exactly what i was going to say... beat me to it.
Nearly all finishes are food safe when dry. They might be toxic to ingest the chips if they start flaking off, but are not water soluble, so they won't dissolve in your food or drink. Unless you use shellac and drink alcohol.
Apple Killer that’s what I was about to say. Haha
With the wood being light in colour any oil used will still let harsh food colours stain thats what i have learnt from making spoons
Time for a 17HP drill press!
I got the same drill press he has, works perfect. He just need to tighten the straps by pulling on the motor...
lathe!
I have a 260 pound Fisch drill press, with a 5/8" chuck, and it does the same thing when drilling with a large forstner bit, into osage orange and hickory knots. Some wood is just too hard.
Andy, love what you're doing. Really impressive how close to round you got it with the hand planes. I am a turner and make many of those (though not out of osage). General finishes has a food safe salad bowl finish that I use. It take several coats, letting them fully cure and sanding back between coats. Then you have to let them sit on the shelf for a few weeks, until the odors from the finish fade away. I only make them as custom orders now, the finish time makes them very expensive.
With so many wood turning videos, it's refreshing to see this one.
Another great project and video! You do well at showing what needs to be done without saying it or even over-emphasizing anything. Also I think the placement of your ad was really well done -- later into the video when you know your viewers were willing to watch, and right when you were about to spend awhile sanding and buffing; it let us know where your project was going while also making me feel like the ad wasn't a burden at all.
*puts liquid into plant*
*liquid tastes like plant*
*surprised pikachu face*
Don't give up on it! I made a knife handle out of osage orange recently, and it leached orangy-yellow when it got wet for a while. Eventually it all leached out and the wood turned a nice mahogany shade of brown. Maybe just weight it down and steep in water for a couple of days?
That hole into endgrain would be exactly the kind of thing to do on the lathe - with the forstner bit, but on the lathe, makes it much faster and easier.
I think the point was not using a lathe: th-cam.com/video/WMWrngxNr70/w-d-xo.htmlm46s
IF YOU OWN A LATHE!!! :-)
You need to boil the cup in very salty water for about an hour. Change the water and repeat until water remains clear.
Osage Orange has a Hugh level of tannins in it. If present in food or drink, it gives the bitter, astringent flavor. The tannins oxidizing over time is what gives Osage the darker color change over time from either light exposure or ammonia fuming. Not sure if the “leaching” into the coffee would be improved/eliminated once the oxidation has occurred and it’s darkened up.
I just adore the sound of the plane blades cutting trough the wood
One recommendation, Always place clamp handle on the left side of the piece. First it allows to to use it as a grip with your left hand while you plunge with your right. Second and most importantly, if the handle is in the right, if the drill bit were to grab and rip it around it would slam right into you! If I’m the left it will swing AWAY from you, and only hit the drill press.
Awesome video as always man. Those close up planing shots were KILLER! This video just gave me an awesome idea too!
All you have to do is coat the inside of it with a pour-on epoxy (the kind they use to cover counter-tops and stuff). That'll seal it up. You can get small amounts of it at hobby shops.
Osage orange or hedge as it is known in Missouri, is a very tough wood that makes excellent fence posts (it doesn't rot) and pretty good tool handles. The yellow color will oxidize into a deep brown in a short while. The biggest thing is keeping it from cracking as it seasons.
Paint the inside with a coat or two of epoxy, preferably marine.
But like several have said, boiling wooden utensils is supposed to neutralize any noxious flavors.
I'd do that carefully, though, because Osage Orange might crack if treated that way.
Can you show us how you sharpen a forstner bit?
Josiah Lacey
I haven’t watched all the way through this, but I skimmed the comments - possibly okay
th-cam.com/video/xydCcrEAYQ0/w-d-xo.html
In Brazil there is a kind of wood container that the oldest people used to use for water, they have a bitter taste too, but they leave a couple days in water bath and the bitter and colour that comes from the wood goes away... You can try it out
The Finnish use birch burls to make coffee mugs called Kuksa, they soak them in salt water before carving them. The coffee actually seals the wood, due to the oils in it. The first month is a bit salty, but then they’re great for coffee, and whiskey.
Put glass into it or put lay of epoxy inside of it!
Yes, coat it in epoxy.
Also it give food save epoxy for that problem.
Epoxy even food safe epoxy probably isn’t good for coffee
epoxy is great idea!
It's always a pleasure to see you Andy. I have never seen Osage Orange before. No Idea it was that hard or as beautiful ! Bummer on the taste transfer bud. You bet I will go check this engraver out.
Birch is probably your best bet for making cups/mugs. the Finn's typically carve a traditional "Kuksa" from it and i hear they have a really good birch sap drink to go with it too!
I've made a few bows out of Osage. I was not surprised by the drilling of it and I kept thinking how is he going to seal it. Crazy stuff has so much yellow in it. But leave it in the sun a while and its going to turn a deep brown... Very cool wood for bows though
My favorite wood of all time. Such a beautiful wood not as fun to work with though. I've got some cuttings from my grandfather's ranch they are about 70 years old. They are some of the first fence posts he cut when he bought the place.
I never realized how pretty Osage orange is. The tight grain kinda reminds me of bamboo.
It looks good, man. You could always coat it with epoxy or a thick layer of beeswax. I’ve got some beer mugs that I made over a year ago that hold up great with epoxy.
gorgeous. you always make the most simple, elegant objects.
The previous comments about epoxy for the lining make good sense. Nice cup!
Neat cup! On our farms we have tons of Osage trees, we call them hedge trees, from the hedge apples they produce!
Awesome cup. If you could turn your lathe on the slowest speed you could “paint” some food safe epoxy on the inside. The slow speed will keep it from puddling and give it and even finish. I’ve done this with beer steins.
Only thing I make out of osage orange are police nightsticks. The ones issued in my town are made of pine. Copy them like a spindle and paint it black. They sell well
Boiling the cup in extremely salty water will help drive the oils and flavors out of it. Look into making a kuksa. Mainly the treating of the wood traditionally used on a kuksa. You could also line the cup with brewers pitch.
Boil it to release the tannins..you will have to boil it multiple times until water is clear. Nice work!
I'm a new subscriber. I love watching you take a plain piece of wood, a plank or a piece of wood from a tree and make something very beautiful with it.
Regardless of the outcome of the cup it's very satisfying to watch the process almost relaxing.
That alarm is soo good and really simple for using it works good
First wide shot of the drill press, I noticed the motor jumping on it's mounts like the lock nuts are backing off. Maybe check the lineup using the mounting bolts to push the motor back and offset the stretched belt. I also bet that mill could make a hell of a stout motor mount bracket replacement
Thanks Andy, I am very impressed with the completed project. I would have not thought of using a plane to make a round object. Mad props! I love osage orange for many of my projects. lately knife scales. Thanks again, keep up the good work. fred
I think I watched the motor on your drill press shifting around. That might account for some of the belt slippage.
I wonder if it was used for a long time whether the coffee would flavor the cup. Coffee is acidic. I would think that sooner or later it would leech out the oils and replace them with coffee flavor. But I guess the issue would be that 1. It would probably take forever, drinking crappy tasting coffee. and 2. By the time the cup was good to go, it would probably split and you would have to start over. Maybe try leaving coffee in it during the day. See what it does after a couple weeks of fresh coffee each day. (don't drink it, just let it work on it)
Gregory Wolf I’m really curious if this would work.
In Finland when we make a wooden mug named "kuksa" we finish it with used coffee grounds. So the wood gets grease and gets a coffee taste.
The Good of the Land sent me. Can’t wait to see the miter saw in action.
Osage orange contains tetrahydroxystilbene which may explain it's decay resistance according to Michael Dirr's Manual of Woody Plants. Maybe pencil holder or mother in law cup best use lol.
Gaylon Reedy Yes. A present for mother-in-law...
Gaylon Reedy hahaha MILC
My ex mother in law was a beautiful lady. Perhaps a divorce gift for the ex!
Those shots you took of the workpiece from behind and under the plane were awesome.
Andy, that's some insane shaping/rounding with hand planes. Getting that slope so perfect is satisfying. Great video!
What if you coated the inside in an epoxy? After epoxy cures it’s food safe and should keep the bitterness out. Chuck it up in the lathe and set to super slow to get a smooth finish?
We use it for fence post and fire wood. When it drys it gets very hard!
Osage Orange is a total beast of a material - must have been at that drill press for quite literally an entire day.
Yeah the tannins in the wood will make it turn color. Maybe add resin to the inside. Looks cool! 👊🏻
I love it! Osage is my favorite. The burls and colors you can get are great. It can be a bit of a challenge to work though. As others have said, a good food safe sealer or epoxy would take care of that flavor issue, but then your wife wouldn't get an awesome vase.
Bro I know it’s your shop but those babies of yours will be a beautiful SIGHT as they grow older. Shame to miss that due to not wearing eye protection when operating power equipment! Safety First! Thanks and have a successful New Year!
Do that drill process in the lathe! The press might yield better results if the piece being drilled is firmly fixed to the bed rather than holding it.
Coat the interior in molten beeswax. That should eliminate the taste problem.
It's what's used in drinking horns. But yeah, no hot liquids unless you want those organic flavours seeping through.
You should do a video with Demolition Ranch and see if Orange Osage would stop a bullet!!
White oak adds a sort of vanilla flavor to everything. I turned a bunch of cups out of it a few years ago, kind is an odd sensation. Drinking an IPA out of one and there’s a vanilla finish on it.
Osage is one of my favorite wood types to use
You're right, it looks neat anyhow. Fun video to watch.
You might be able to soak out the tannins. Also maple or oak might be good for making mugs, especially beer mugs. Back in ye oldie times they would coat the inner parts of wood or leather drinking vessels with woodpitch glue and/or beeswax. Beeswax might be good here, maybe not as a coffee mug but just as a normal cup.
Such a beatiful wood.
I made a set of grips for my Ruger Blackhawk out of hedge. Looks really nice against the blued metal!
I had a similar suggestion to some of the others. But I thought perhaps you could char the inside with a torch to keep the wood/plant flavors out.
I cooped one together once form sycamore. Wanted a shop-proof mug. Took a while to leach the flavoring out of it.
You need to tighten the moter on your drill press i had the same problem with the same press. Losen the 2 blue knobs right behing the plate for the moter one on each side and put a pry bar behind that plate and it will move esay but pry the moter back and when it gets tight then tighten the 2 knobs up and it wont stop the bit like that any more.
Boil the wood to get the tannins out of it, then oil/ wax it with beeswax or coconut oil.
You can make dice cups or dice trays out of it. Woodburn some kewl elvish letters or runes etc on them and sell them to D&D nerds.
We only use osage orange (hedge apple) for fence posts and turning a wood stove cherry red.
you can make a pretty nice hunting bow with it also
You could always coat it in a food safe resin or clear coat right?
You should try boiling the cup for a while, that might take some of the tannins out of it. Also if you drill/gouge perpendicular to the grain instead of parallel, it would be easier... also you’d end up with nice grain patterns
And mineral oil is a laxative, so you'd want to be careful about how much of that finish you applied, since it doesn't cure. Food safe epoxy is the way to go, or line the cup with metal / ceramic
My understanding is that it's not a laxative in the sense that it stimulates things, but it acts as a lubricant. Not sure where I heard that though.
The ship that is in Chestertown Md (Sultaina) is mostly made of Osage Orange, incredibly hard wood, I’ve even seen it used as a truck bumper
Wonder if pecan would do any better
Brads Workbench
I'd love to see Black walnut
Osage is such a hardwood. I made a maul with some and it works really good for that.
You need to coat the inside with food safe epoxy. It'll also protect the wood. White oak probably wouldn't have done much better. It contains a lot of tannic acid, which is also very bitter.
I used birch and it works. Coffee, tea, cool drinks,... No bad taste or ugly colours
You could seal the inside with food-safe resin or some kind of food-safe varnish. But if you like natural stuff, Beeswax could seal the wood and does not taste bad.
Hi Andy.
You could try and put on several coats of epoxy on the inside to seal the wood from the coffee. Seems a shame not to use it for what it was intended for. Plus it will be easier to clean
Now that's some seriously hard wood. Also, very yellow!
Osage is a great wood to make long bows with
I've been wanting to make a cup but didn't think I could because I don't have a lathe. I have a hand plane though!!
Maybe salad bowl finish from general finishes? I've never used it on cups. however, i always finish my bowls, plates spoons etc with it.
I'm wondering if boiling it might have helped? There are those in the green woodworking scene that know a lot about turning endgrain cups etc. Great video though, good to see an update with lessons learned, it shows modesty. Thanks
Yep it would've definitely helped. That's the way a kuksa is made, putting salt in it and boiling it.
Could you use an epoxy to line the cup?
A resin that is thick and doesn’t slump or sag would be the best.
Total Boat has a resin that would work well.
Man that wood looked really nice to work with. I have been looking at all the distributors around my area within reason (150 miles) and no one carries it.
Ayeee as I drink my coffee
Glad to somebody else starts a power tool then works out how they’re going to hold the piece.
the wood is amazing, I love the smell of it too! never tasted wood before though, I used many coats of finish on my wooden mug
if it smells, it is bad for contact with food. smell means essential oils or resin. Both things you dont want to be in your food because they change the flavor and might even be pretty unhealthy. Just take Maple. Doesn't have any of that, and also no natural tanning agents like oak. those are for example the reason why you get black fingers after working with it for a while
Could your resin coat the inside? I think there are food grade kinds.
what would you recommend for making a wood cup safe? I am making one right now an I would like a quick answer...
Definitely expected it to be turned on the lathe. Even more impressed you didn't! Sometimes the easiest way to do things aren't the most satisfying.
Do you think Osage Orange would make a good ace handle material?
Birch is the traditional wood for cups in Sweden
Well done mate you've done it again
Love the videos!! What finish do you recommend for a table top that will still let the grain come through really good
You should try the Bormax 3 (carbide) Forstner drill from FAMAG. I bought two of them for endgrain drilling and never looked back. They are very expensive but I never regreted it.
How do you sharpen your tools and what machine?
Did anyone else turn on closed captioning theres alot if laughter and applause
Just inlay a metal covering on the inside of the wood. Then it should be good right?
Does that wood suitable for turning on lathe?
If you can get your hands on some lignum vitae, that makes a pretty good cup, I have one for yerba mate that I got in Chile.
Nice. Spent 3 months down there in Vina del Mar. neat place.
Hierba* not "yerba"
@@sasig5215 Look it up.