Nice alternative, if there is API available to actually use it as remote bridge via python/C/whatnot scripting environment, such as commercial GPIB to LAN solutions. I use GPIB all the time with calibrators and 3458A's.
Even the commercial Prologix adapter just uses a TCP connection on port 1234 that allows plain ASCII commands, that you can connect to via telnet or terminal emulation program. Would be pretty easy to write a program in Python, C, or whatever that just uses sockets to communicate with this KISS adapter (not to mention, the KISS adapter seems to have better thought-out features, including the neat web interface).
that's a very nice solution. for a school project we used a device that could talk to the devices via a GPIB bus and set it up to use python and pyvisa.
Not all devices respond to IDN command. I worked with some HP device that had ID command instead. The set of commands is a standard on its own and it was evolving over time. SCPI standardizes what set of commands different classes of instruments should have. But it always "fun" when you have to interface with that old device unaware of modern conventions...
The *IDN? and other *commands are part of the IEEE488.2 software protocol. This is a software layer based upon the IEEE488.1 hardware. (Later the SCPI standard was defined on top of IEEE488.2). Not all old IEEE/GPIB instruments were equipped with this protocol. This protocol was developed in the late 1980's. I remember that one of my colleagues was a member of the IEEE488.1 committee so it must be later than 1985 when I started working for Philips. I still have a draft plus glued in changes in my cupboard at work. The PM2534 mentioned was released before this standard was released and used ID? instead. Note that next to IEEE488 also an European standard existed: IEC625. This only had a different connector (25 pins D-type).
I used to program an HP 9000 lab computer, I think it was a 68000 Motorola based system, to control lab equipment at Bellcore in a fiber optics lab. That was so much fun. The HP ran a very advanced version of Basic which I knew already. I used to automate everything. Then send the data to the pen plotter. I loved watching stuff do it's thing, like magic.
I've worked with an HP device whose automation documentation was all around HP Basic. Something to get used to, to rule out unimportant bits when interfacing with modern PC...
Looks like a very well thought-out device to help make life easier for I cannot overstate the never ending world of pain associated with configuring a GPIB-USB adapter. Please do a deal and become the local supplier so the formidable shipping price can be amortized
I must be used to GPIB, but I find it rather easy to configue. Agilent/Keysight's Connection Expert makes it a lot easier. Then to use Tektronix OpenChoice Desktop, you need their VISACOMM32. Somewhere along the line, you end up with NI Visa too, but do a repair to Connection expert to make Agilent VISA primary (or secondary) for your needs. Generally, I find if I can see the instruments with Conenction Expert, I can talk to the instrument with Visual Basis. Biggest thing is that you need the programming manual for the instruments you control and get data from. Some older instruments (i.e., HP 11713A sits on the bus and only accepts command and does not send any responses). It's all fun but probably does have a big learning curve. I do find GIPB easier to use than NETWORK interface (the programming is basically the same, but I have more problems seeing the instruments in NETWORK I/O than GPIB, but the NETWORK interface port is a LOT faster).
@@Daveyk021 Right, so I presume you're talking a Windows install and you've got *all* the correct versions of the required software, have worked out the actual revision of your USB dongle, and have a spare hour or two and nothing wedges along the way. Then you end up with bloatware - a myriad background services doing something. Then it wants to do the latest update again and then, if you have the need to install another USB device, let the conflicts begin. Then, multiply this pain by the number of laptops. So then you try a Linux install. Do you have the correct Linux kernel headers? Do you have a Linux dist that is supported by the GPIB library framework? Well, you don't really know until you try and fail. Then you waste a day getting it to almost work and then you have to debug more low-level USB stuff. Finally, it's all working and you can move on to solving real problems ... until you need to switch machines and go through a similar but not identical set of tedious operations. Get the picture? Imagine if you could just plug in an ethernet device that just worked!
@@grahamgallagher48 Yes, GPIB *can* be relatively easy is you have all the right drivers and nothing goes wrong. But anyone who's used it extensively know you'll eventually come-a-gutsa. For a full rack of GPIB stuff you are still going to want to a proper card and cables and drivers etc. But for a one-off job the KISS-488 is a neat solution.
@@grahamgallagher48 Lol, this sounds EXACTLY like my usual windows experience every time I try anything more technical than Notepad XD You'd think they would have ironed out that kind of bumps in 30+ years, but it hasn't changed much since the Win 3.11 days.
Very cool. I’ve got a ton of old equipment with GPIB I’ve been playing with. I’ve been using the Prologix USB adapter. It’s about half the price of the NI version, and works fairly well, but I mostly use it with the plotter emulator software to capture plots. I use the HP 87 (or 85 or 9816) to drive the instruments, then use RS-232 to get the data into a modern computer if necessary. I’ll have to try on of those. That looks like a more useful interface.
a esp32 might make a very nice wireless enabled GPIB controller. ..... the GPIB standard is not that demanding either even the slowest arduino should be able to do it.
The problem is compatibility with other soft for which the drivers are paramount. Still I would be interested in this for sure. Too bad you can't do links on YT comments.
Kevin Miedema I think the limitation is more internal storage space, you need sufficient room to store the data before transmitting it. In the case of my oscilloscope, I’m running into 500kb of HPGL data from an RS232 port. Personally I’m just trying to write it to an SD card so I can read that later with a computer, but whether I even have time to write a byte of data in the 200us between bytes has yet to be seen.
its probably better to stream the data out continunally using the esp's dedicated core for wireless...... then again you might be better off using something like a NVME SSD and a small Linux computer so you can actually buffer it really really fast though. and you would need very high clock speeds to even keep up with that. a FPGA would likely become a better option. ........all of this is of course probably irrelevant as you will be limited by the speed of the line your using to communicate with the instrument.
I interfaced to my 34401a, a 6.5 digit DMM using a GPIB to USB controller. The name of the controller is Prologix, GPIB-USB (HPIB-USB) Controller. The price is $150 US. The USB looks like a serial port to your computer. It is very easy to interface to any program that supports serial communications. I use it to communicate a command set from Visual Basic 6 to the DMM. I collected voltage data for my program from the meter at a much faster rate than 1 reading per second.
One way to look up the IP address of a new device is to check the lease times on your router. Sometimes they will even have their name there. The connected devices page can help too.
Another option is to get a used ICS8065 which allows you to bridge from ethernet to GPIB. Works great with NI etc. Easy to setup and their customer support is pretty good too (even though I bought it second hand). Was about the same price too. Also the ICS8065 will work with as many devices as you want to connect.
This is interesting. I have been using raspberry pi's to convert from GPIB/USB/RS484/RS232 etc to a standard VXI11 Ethernet interface for years in my customers labs so we can run production scripts on various instruments ... never figured there would be enough demand for it to be a product ... I might have to re-think that :P
Actually you can go faster than 1 second. At 14:48 it shows 0.5 as an example when you held the mouse over the interval input box. You should see how fast it can go reliably.
At 12:00 there's a FAQ reply which states that a Telnet connection can go as fast as the interface permits. The program at 14:48 is working through Telnet.
System 21 was compatible with IBM's System i format (AS/400). I believe it is still in use/development and is part of the open Service Oriented Architecture. Most computer techs from the IBM AS/400 era would be familiar with System 21. It was a nice idea for them to include it and either shows a bit of foresight, or perhaps they had a large contract customer that was asking for it.
Hi, I seriously doubt that this IBM system is identical to the Philips system. Or at least, I cannot remember any connection with IBM in that time. The Philips system 21 was developed by Philips IE in Almelo, the Netherlands in the 1980's. It was a IEEE controlled system of blind units that could be stacked on top of each other. The series consisted of one master unit, the PM2101, and multiple slave units which did communicate via the 9 bits serial RS-232 bus based on Intel 8051/8048 micro controllers. The slave units consisted mainly of relay units. For example the PM2120 had 20 reed relays. There were also units with high voltage relays and 50 ohm coax relays. Also analog input and output units did exist. As shown, the PM2534 and PM2535 DMM's also were equipped with a system 21 interface, as they were developed in the same department in Almelo. I still have some system 21 units stacked below my lab table, mainly for nostalgia reasons. I think I am the last in the company from the original develop team. I started working for Philips Almelo in 1985 and did participate with developing system 21. Later, Philips IE Almelo was sold to Fluke, then to Pemstar, and now we are called Benchmark Electronics.
There were multiple open-source projects of GPIB-USB interface. Some should still be around. Yep, Google for it. Galvant GPIBUSB seems to be available.
As I recall, some instruments require a question mark in the query. That means they only respond to an IDN? instead of any shorter versions. The other thing that I have encountered is the screen dump. At least a couple of old HP units did the screen dump only to a printer, and maybe only to a parallel printer for that. Then, on one unit I found a description of a two or actually three step procedure. The first step was to save the screen data to internal memory SEGMENTS. Maybe 3 or 4. It was not in graphics format, it was binary numbers. Then you could read them to your computer, into a spread sheet and do the rest there. Too complex for me - I never even tried that. I just used my phone camera to save the image of the instrument screen.
I need to try playing with GPIB, I have a USB to GPIB adaptor and some GPIB cables, I just need to figure out what software I should use on my Mac and get stuck into it.
its frustrating but can be fun ...I worked on some instruments at a test bench at a company for a school project....you might be able to score some old gear to play around with. stuff like GPIB control of a signal generator was pretty fun to implement.
Kevin Miedema - I’ve got plenty of gear to try it on (I buy broken gear and fix it to make videos, and I’m a hoarder), I just need to sit down and actually try to do it...
Commodore used the GPIB for peripheral bus connection on the PET line of computers (almost, PETs only support 16 devices instead of the 32 on a full implimentation), and a serialized derivative for the rest of their 8-bit computers. Do you suppose this thing could transfer files to and from old Commodore equipment?
If you have a GPIB controller you can use a relay nice programs developed by an US Ham KE5FX " KE5FX GPIB Toolkit" it has support for many spectrum analyzers and it also comes with a HP7470A emulator that you can plot out JPG pictures instead of a hardware plotter. Another nice feature is Phase noise measurement with a spectrum analyzer and also VNA Utility , lots of goodies just google for KE5FX GPIB Toolkit it ´s all free software.
Sounds this might have been at the TI GaAs Facility in Dallas ... They had the old non-DOS HP computers and a lot of semiconductor test equipment and of course wafer probers ...
Is that a floppy slot on the front of the signal analyzer? Designing an electronic floppy interface would be quite entertaining. I guess you need a hub with an encoder to track the rotational position and a stripe that allows you to measure what the write head is doing and to provide a b field for the read head.
That's not the way we generally solve that problem. The floppy emulators that are out there simply interface via the floppy cable and you can send data back that way. You have to send back flux transition pulses that have the data encoded via MFM, but there's little to worry about beyond making sure the time between pulses is the correct length.
This sounds like the kind of thing that you could hack together with a Raspberry Pi - GPIO ports for the GPIB connection (with appropriate level translation) and you're good to go. Alternatively, you used to be able to get an IEEE-488 interface card for the Vic20 / Commodore 64 (and presumably other 8-bit micros) That's be a really cool project, especially using a Pi Zero or something. You could probably rig something up using an Arduino, but that's outside my area of expertise - I'm more of a Pi guy :)
Philips devices from the late 80s seem to not understand the IDN-Command. I used one of the old ISA-Cards btw. and was quite surprised that there were still current drivers available for Windows 98, which I have running on my old Retro Gaming-PC. :)
That GPIB Telnet Data Logger mentioned in the popup hint for the Interval box, that you can for example set it to 0.5 seconds. Also you mentioned this device can emulate a printer/plotter and your DSA appeared to have support for a printer?
Pretty cool. I've used that interface to automate the creation of Bode plots in my lab class that the lab TA wanted us to generate by hand. I probably meet your definition of script kiddie..
You will need MDNS (google it) on the network (bonjour for example) to access the adapter by name without knowing the IP-address, you probably don't have this and that's the reason why it doesn't work. The poll-push/post web query interface is pretty old in terms of communication, if they had used websockets (google it) for example it could be close to real time. Actually, I think that is what you want. When you know how the GPIB communication works, you can implement this yourself with use of one ESP8266/ESP32 (and maybe some I/O expander to handle all of the GPIB pins/connections). I think tis could be pretty easy to do. Not tested, just thinking but I think this must be possible.
They look to have newer models, and even a model with Power over Ethernet. Nice. Unfortunately a bit more expensive ~250$, and doesn't support IPv6. Meh.
Nice to see this, are there any open-source implementations? I always wanted to use the GPIB interface of my Philips power-supply to give it a proper knob, instead of just the keyboard for input.
Now we just need an open-hardware to pop up and boum old scope are climbing up in value. Sprinkle some open-source software around this and I am sure some lab researchers are rushing in to contribute. Could be a cool electronics project / video to replicate the board.
Cool project-- wonder if this is the same guy who was working on an 488 Ethernet adapter on the forums a while ago? After seeing his work, it inspired me to give it a go. Bought an FTDI FT901L (has integrated Ethernet mac/phy and various other interfaces), got FreeRTOS built and running, then realized how much of a massive pain it was to work with FreeRTOS. lol. Curious what hardware the KISS-488 creator is using in his, and if he's running an OS like Linux, or not.
Can you daisy chain more than one of these HPIB connectors on the same bus with this Ethernet adapter? I was able to do this when I had a PCI card. My guess is that this is the case, but want to hear if anyone has tried this.
I think the problem was, that you entered the hostname in the URL field and the browser wanted to connect via https. I think the server only supports http.
Seeing the prices of the "commercial" GPIB to * adaptors had me laughing... might take a look at this stuff when there's an image for an ESP8266 or something to do the interfacing. Just plugging a little Wifi enabled "dongle" to the back of the device, that'd be really awesome :-D
Hi, I am going to create a pcb to connect lihtium ion batteries and they can reach current spikes up to 60 Amps, now I am wondering how I should place the vias the best way possible? as even as possible or right behind the connection point with the battery, or where the batteries are connected in series... I really don`t know and would appreciate help a lot. Thank you in advance, Jonas :) Edit: I have used Saturn PCB, still don't know which diameter is the best and where to place the vias... I have an area of 30x70mm and 30width x 140length (mm)
An esp32 would be perfect for this.... If gpib included a power pin. I guess a little board with an esp32, usb-c port, ethernet with PoE and a micro SD slot would be just about the cheapest way to implement a universal gpib adapter.
@@uwezimmermann5427 Ethernet and PoE would just be one option as the esp32 supports Ethernet as well. I'd think WiFi and USB C for power would be most useful for most people, but being able to go fully wired if wanted would be a nice touch. The esp32 has enough power and flexibility to power everything from a standalone logger to a USB or network adapter. Most of the complexity would be in the software and testing, so might as well make it universal.
@@RobertSzasz There is some potential in wireless adapter, for experimenting and intermittent setups... But for somewhat serious use, I think that wired ethernet is uncomparably more stable than wifi. I always try to follow the simple rule that if it is a permanent installation which does not need to be portable then it is better to wire-in.
@@gabiold I agree. the idea is that for ~$12 you can have a pretested module that does all the wireless stuff and is a decent processor, so why not build the support interface around it.
This video created a surge of interest that depleted our stock (thank you Dave!). We have another production run in progress and should have stock approximately Sept 29, 2019. If you are in the US and contact me directly at SteveHx@HxEngineering.com I can offer a discount by avoiding the eBay fees. Sorry, overseas users: The savings by using eBay's Global Shipping Program outweighs their fees - and it works very well.
Update from the creator of KISS-488: KISS-488 is back in stock and ready to ship. eBay's Global Shipping Program is the way to go if you aren't in the US, as it saves a bunch on customs fees etc. For shipping to the USA, I offer $10 off if you just PayPal to me at SteveHx@HxEngineering.com. I also offer $10 off per unit for quantities of 5 or more.
This confused me a little bit, too. He clearly said 'four double-0 eight' several times, but when I looked, the equipment said 488, which would be 'four double-8,' right?
@@simontay4851 No PC supports ISA today. But you can get a used PCI card for $50. But before I buy this, I would buy an old USB-GPIB adapter for $80. Because the cables are expensive and they're very annoying.
They just remove the sticker for the US market. That way americans don't think it's some communist spy device, and will gladly pay a premium because "Made in U.S.A." means quality right.
not quite the same but I use a prologix "Ethernet to GPIB" controller to drive a 26GHz oscillator as part of our EMC test kit. you just send the GPIB commands to it and it handles the handshaking etc. prologix.biz/gpib-ethernet-controller.html
The term 'script kiddie' was coined to describe a wanna-be hacker who uses scripts to run attacks instead of applying knowledge. Ie a script kiddie just downloads Metasploit and runs it like a shotgun, not knowing why any particular exploit works. In general script kiddies wouldn't be capable of developing software that can control a device (via telnet or any other way). They, by definition, only use other peoples' software.
Oh my gosh Dave , I think you really don't have to much experience with GPIB. Your meeeh or another allusions are out of topic , please RTFM about GPIB and why it is used to this days.
Nice alternative, if there is API available to actually use it as remote bridge via python/C/whatnot scripting environment, such as commercial GPIB to LAN solutions. I use GPIB all the time with calibrators and 3458A's.
Keep watching the video, I demo this. No need for an API, just Telnet in.
Even the commercial Prologix adapter just uses a TCP connection on port 1234 that allows plain ASCII commands, that you can connect to via telnet or terminal emulation program. Would be pretty easy to write a program in Python, C, or whatever that just uses sockets to communicate with this KISS adapter (not to mention, the KISS adapter seems to have better thought-out features, including the neat web interface).
Wouldn’t be too hard to pull response from html div and send using the get query string. However a simple api would be nice.
Although telnet is workable option.
that's a very nice solution. for a school project we used a device that could talk to the devices via a GPIB bus and set it up to use python and pyvisa.
This is fantastic! I’ve had to maintain an old WinXP box for my GPIB instruments. I could not be more pleased to see this
Not all devices respond to IDN command. I worked with some HP device that had ID command instead.
The set of commands is a standard on its own and it was evolving over time. SCPI standardizes what set of commands different classes of instruments should have. But it always "fun" when you have to interface with that old device unaware of modern conventions...
You got a big thank-you mention on their Ebay listing!
...all 20 sold out...
@@uwezimmermann5427 yea we won't be able to get a hold of these things for months now
The *IDN? and other *commands are part of the IEEE488.2 software protocol. This is a software layer based upon the IEEE488.1 hardware. (Later the SCPI standard was defined on top of IEEE488.2).
Not all old IEEE/GPIB instruments were equipped with this protocol. This protocol was developed in the late 1980's. I remember that one of my colleagues was a member of the IEEE488.1 committee so it must be later than 1985 when I started working for Philips. I still have a draft plus glued in changes in my cupboard at work.
The PM2534 mentioned was released before this standard was released and used ID? instead.
Note that next to IEEE488 also an European standard existed: IEC625. This only had a different connector (25 pins D-type).
KISS was Made by the Late Kelly Johnson the Man Who led the Design of the SR-71a BlackBird.
I used to program an HP 9000 lab computer, I think it was a 68000 Motorola based system, to control lab equipment at Bellcore in a fiber optics lab. That was so much fun. The HP ran a very advanced version of Basic which I knew already. I used to automate everything. Then send the data to the pen plotter. I loved watching stuff do it's thing, like magic.
This was in the mid-80s
I've worked with an HP device whose automation documentation was all around HP Basic. Something to get used to, to rule out unimportant bits when interfacing with modern PC...
@@killymxi, I used to be quite proficient with HP Basic. It was beyond most versions of Basic. It even allowed recursion.
Looks like a very well thought-out device to help make life easier for I cannot overstate the never ending world of pain associated with configuring a GPIB-USB adapter. Please do a deal and become the local supplier so the formidable shipping price can be amortized
I must be used to GPIB, but I find it rather easy to configue. Agilent/Keysight's Connection Expert makes it a lot easier. Then to use Tektronix OpenChoice Desktop, you need their VISACOMM32. Somewhere along the line, you end up with NI Visa too, but do a repair to Connection expert to make Agilent VISA primary (or secondary) for your needs. Generally, I find if I can see the instruments with Conenction Expert, I can talk to the instrument with Visual Basis. Biggest thing is that you need the programming manual for the instruments you control and get data from. Some older instruments (i.e., HP 11713A sits on the bus and only accepts command and does not send any responses). It's all fun but probably does have a big learning curve. I do find GIPB easier to use than NETWORK interface (the programming is basically the same, but I have more problems seeing the instruments in NETWORK I/O than GPIB, but the NETWORK interface port is a LOT faster).
@@Daveyk021 Right, so I presume you're talking a Windows install and you've got *all* the correct versions of the required software, have worked out the actual revision of your USB dongle, and have a spare hour or two and nothing wedges along the way. Then you end up with bloatware - a myriad background services doing something. Then it wants to do the latest update again and then, if you have the need to install another USB device, let the conflicts begin. Then, multiply this pain by the number of laptops. So then you try a Linux install. Do you have the correct Linux kernel headers? Do you have a Linux dist that is supported by the GPIB library framework? Well, you don't really know until you try and fail. Then you waste a day getting it to almost work and then you have to debug more low-level USB stuff. Finally, it's all working and you can move on to solving real problems ... until you need to switch machines and go through a similar but not identical set of tedious operations. Get the picture? Imagine if you could just plug in an ethernet device that just worked!
@@grahamgallagher48 Yes, GPIB *can* be relatively easy is you have all the right drivers and nothing goes wrong. But anyone who's used it extensively know you'll eventually come-a-gutsa.
For a full rack of GPIB stuff you are still going to want to a proper card and cables and drivers etc. But for a one-off job the KISS-488 is a neat solution.
@@grahamgallagher48 Lol, this sounds EXACTLY like my usual windows experience every time I try anything more technical than Notepad XD
You'd think they would have ironed out that kind of bumps in 30+ years, but it hasn't changed much since the Win 3.11 days.
25%. Low battery anxiety triggered.
Bloody hell, that thing almost costs less than just a damn GPIB cable!!!
Except you need one per device. So if you have more than few devices it's cheaper to have PCI card and bunch of cables.
Nice. Maybe sigrok would like to implement it in there hardware list.
I love GPIB, use it daily, and write software for it all the time in VBA and VB6 and I have the arthristis to prove it!
The War Games references are legit love it every time you do it. "Would you like to play a game? Sorry can't do it with a fake synthesized voice.
.. they are sold dirt cheap? In Australia maybe. Here in Europe people are asking for obscene money on ebay for old test gear.
Very cool. I’ve got a ton of old equipment with GPIB I’ve been playing with. I’ve been using the Prologix USB adapter. It’s about half the price of the NI version, and works fairly well, but I mostly use it with the plotter emulator software to capture plots. I use the HP 87 (or 85 or 9816) to drive the instruments, then use RS-232 to get the data into a modern computer if necessary. I’ll have to try on of those. That looks like a more useful interface.
You could probably do it with an ESP32. No ethernet cable required.
There are even a couple of ready made Arduino sketches on the EEVblog forum that apparently work. Haven't tested myself....
a esp32 might make a very nice wireless enabled GPIB controller. ..... the GPIB standard is not that demanding either even the slowest arduino should be able to do it.
The problem is compatibility with other soft for which the drivers are paramount. Still I would be interested in this for sure. Too bad you can't do links on YT comments.
Kevin Miedema
I think the limitation is more internal storage space, you need sufficient room to store the data before transmitting it. In the case of my oscilloscope, I’m running into 500kb of HPGL data from an RS232 port. Personally I’m just trying to write it to an SD card so I can read that later with a computer, but whether I even have time to write a byte of data in the 200us between bytes has yet to be seen.
its probably better to stream the data out continunally using the esp's dedicated core for wireless...... then again you might be better off using something like a NVME SSD and a small Linux computer so you can actually buffer it really really fast though. and you would need very high clock speeds to even keep up with that. a FPGA would likely become a better option. ........all of this is of course probably irrelevant as you will be limited by the speed of the line your using to communicate with the instrument.
I interfaced to my 34401a, a 6.5 digit DMM using a GPIB to USB controller. The name of the controller is Prologix, GPIB-USB (HPIB-USB) Controller. The price is $150 US. The USB looks like a serial port to your computer. It is very easy to interface to any program that supports serial communications. I use it to communicate a command set from Visual Basic 6 to the DMM. I collected voltage data for my program from the meter at a much faster rate than 1 reading per second.
One way to look up the IP address of a new device is to check the lease times on your router. Sometimes they will even have their name there. The connected devices page can help too.
Another option is to get a used ICS8065 which allows you to bridge from ethernet to GPIB. Works great with NI etc. Easy to setup and their customer support is pretty good too (even though I bought it second hand). Was about the same price too. Also the ICS8065 will work with as many devices as you want to connect.
This is interesting. I have been using raspberry pi's to convert from GPIB/USB/RS484/RS232 etc to a standard VXI11 Ethernet interface for years in my customers labs so we can run production scripts on various instruments ... never figured there would be enough demand for it to be a product ... I might have to re-think that :P
The listing ended on June 29, 2019 and has not been replaced with a new listing. An eBay search for this now has zero results :(.
Actually you can go faster than 1 second. At 14:48 it shows 0.5 as an example when you held the mouse over the interval input box. You should see how fast it can go reliably.
At 12:00 there's a FAQ reply which states that a Telnet connection can go as fast as the interface permits. The program at 14:48 is working through Telnet.
System 21 was compatible with IBM's System i format (AS/400). I believe it is still in use/development and is part of the open Service Oriented Architecture. Most computer techs from the IBM AS/400 era would be familiar with System 21. It was a nice idea for them to include it and either shows a bit of foresight, or perhaps they had a large contract customer that was asking for it.
Hi,
I seriously doubt that this IBM system is identical to the Philips system. Or at least, I cannot remember any connection with IBM in that time.
The Philips system 21 was developed by Philips IE in Almelo, the Netherlands in the 1980's. It was a IEEE controlled system of blind units that could be stacked on top of each other. The series consisted of one master unit, the PM2101, and multiple slave units which did communicate via the 9 bits serial RS-232 bus based on Intel 8051/8048 micro controllers.
The slave units consisted mainly of relay units. For example the PM2120 had 20 reed relays. There were also units with high voltage relays and 50 ohm coax relays. Also analog input and output units did exist.
As shown, the PM2534 and PM2535 DMM's also were equipped with a system 21 interface, as they were developed in the same department in Almelo.
I still have some system 21 units stacked below my lab table, mainly for nostalgia reasons. I think I am the last in the company from the original develop team. I started working for Philips Almelo in 1985 and did participate with developing system 21. Later, Philips IE Almelo was sold to Fluke, then to Pemstar, and now we are called Benchmark Electronics.
@@robvandeschepop8595 You must be right. IBM references seem to indicate it was a solutions platform for the AS/400.
There were multiple open-source projects of GPIB-USB interface. Some should still be around. Yep, Google for it. Galvant GPIBUSB seems to be available.
I had some fun getting the HP devices with serial to 'print' over serial, capture the HPGL and convert it to an svg file! Easy way to get visuals out!
As I recall, some instruments require a question mark in the query. That means they only respond to an IDN? instead of any shorter versions.
The other thing that I have encountered is the screen dump. At least a couple of old HP units did the screen dump only to a printer, and maybe only to a parallel printer for that. Then, on one unit I found a description of a two or actually three step procedure. The first step was to save the screen data to internal memory SEGMENTS. Maybe 3 or 4. It was not in graphics format, it was binary numbers. Then you could read them to your computer, into a spread sheet and do the rest there. Too complex for me - I never even tried that. I just used my phone camera to save the image of the instrument screen.
I need to try playing with GPIB, I have a USB to GPIB adaptor and some GPIB cables, I just need to figure out what software I should use on my Mac and get stuck into it.
its frustrating but can be fun ...I worked on some instruments at a test bench at a company for a school project....you might be able to score some old gear to play around with. stuff like GPIB control of a signal generator was pretty fun to implement.
Kevin Miedema - I’ve got plenty of gear to try it on (I buy broken gear and fix it to make videos, and I’m a hoarder), I just need to sit down and actually try to do it...
The answer is always "Python". See PyVISA.
Commodore used the GPIB for peripheral bus connection on the PET line of computers (almost, PETs only support 16 devices instead of the 32 on a full implimentation), and a serialized derivative for the rest of their 8-bit computers. Do you suppose this thing could transfer files to and from old Commodore equipment?
This is so unreal, absolutely brilliant. Phenominal at the worst haha
If you have a GPIB controller you can use a relay nice programs developed by an US Ham KE5FX " KE5FX GPIB Toolkit" it has support for many spectrum analyzers and it also comes with a HP7470A emulator that you can plot out JPG pictures instead of a hardware plotter. Another nice feature is Phase noise measurement with a spectrum analyzer and also VNA Utility , lots of goodies just google for KE5FX GPIB Toolkit it ´s all free software.
Joshua? Yes Dr Falken.... Someone has been watching WarGames. Great film. :-)
Fantastic! Thank you for this. Great job.
1990 - did my final year EE project on a wafer probe station, an HP parametric analyser and an old HP computer. All the programming done in HP basic.
Sounds this might have been at the TI GaAs Facility in Dallas ...
They had the old non-DOS HP computers and a lot of semiconductor test equipment and of course wafer probers ...
@@uploadJ Uni in Scotland that had links with a National Semi fab hence the kit
Is that a floppy slot on the front of the signal analyzer? Designing an electronic floppy interface would be quite entertaining. I guess you need a hub with an encoder to track the rotational position and a stripe that allows you to measure what the write head is doing and to provide a b field for the read head.
That's not the way we generally solve that problem. The floppy emulators that are out there simply interface via the floppy cable and you can send data back that way. You have to send back flux transition pulses that have the data encoded via MFM, but there's little to worry about beyond making sure the time between pulses is the correct length.
There's a Python library called "ghettoIB" that can be used for similar purposes with some old HP gear, including screen captures.
This sounds like the kind of thing that you could hack together with a Raspberry Pi - GPIO ports for the GPIB connection (with appropriate level translation) and you're good to go.
Alternatively, you used to be able to get an IEEE-488 interface card for the Vic20 / Commodore 64 (and presumably other 8-bit micros) That's be a really cool project, especially using a Pi Zero or something. You could probably rig something up using an Arduino, but that's outside my area of expertise - I'm more of a Pi guy :)
This is beyond cool.
Thanks for the Video - great effort - where do you get KISS-488
Philips devices from the late 80s seem to not understand the IDN-Command. I used one of the old ISA-Cards btw. and was quite surprised that there were still current drivers available for Windows 98, which I have running on my old Retro Gaming-PC. :)
That GPIB Telnet Data Logger mentioned in the popup hint for the Interval box, that you can for example set it to 0.5 seconds. Also you mentioned this device can emulate a printer/plotter and your DSA appeared to have support for a printer?
I tried both printer and plotter and neither worked.
@@EEVblog2 - my apologies Dave, of course. Didn't mean to offend, I'm just unavoidably inclined towards details. :)
Pretty cool. I've used that interface to automate the creation of Bode plots in my lab class that the lab TA wanted us to generate by hand. I probably meet your definition of script kiddie..
its interesting that the warm up drift drifts up from zero and does not normalize at 0 as if it was not properly calibrated at 15 min
You will need MDNS (google it) on the network (bonjour for example) to access the adapter by name without knowing the IP-address, you probably don't have this and that's the reason why it doesn't work. The poll-push/post web query interface is pretty old in terms of communication, if they had used websockets (google it) for example it could be close to real time. Actually, I think that is what you want. When you know how the GPIB communication works, you can implement this yourself with use of one ESP8266/ESP32 (and maybe some I/O expander to handle all of the GPIB pins/connections). I think tis could be pretty easy to do. Not tested, just thinking but I think this must be possible.
Notice the blinking IR led on his phone.
Stunning fantastic!
Ive always used the Lantronix UDS10. Ethernet web server to Serial. Brilliant and simple devices.
They look to have newer models, and even a model with Power over Ethernet. Nice. Unfortunately a bit more expensive ~250$, and doesn't support IPv6. Meh.
Nice to see this, are there any open-source implementations? I always wanted to use the GPIB interface of my Philips power-supply to give it a proper knob, instead of just the keyboard for input.
Lovely awesome thing that, thanks for sharing! : )
Now we just need an open-hardware to pop up and boum old scope are climbing up in value. Sprinkle some open-source software around this and I am sure some lab researchers are rushing in to contribute. Could be a cool electronics project / video to replicate the board.
Cool project-- wonder if this is the same guy who was working on an 488 Ethernet adapter on the forums a while ago? After seeing his work, it inspired me to give it a go. Bought an FTDI FT901L (has integrated Ethernet mac/phy and various other interfaces), got FreeRTOS built and running, then realized how much of a massive pain it was to work with FreeRTOS. lol. Curious what hardware the KISS-488 creator is using in his, and if he's running an OS like Linux, or not.
Can you daisy chain more than one of these HPIB connectors on the same bus with this Ethernet adapter? I was able to do this when I had a PCI card. My guess is that this is the case, but want to hear if anyone has tried this.
I still use GPIB via pyvisa in python to control some keithley 2400s and keysight 33500's as well as some keysight scopes
This wpuld be nicer if it was powered through ethernet cable (PoE)
Dave, the hpib can be dasiechained. Have you tried this device on a dasiechain? Also does hpib have a help command something like AT ?
Nice die cast plug. Flimsey pcb hanging out the back.
Not as flimsy as you might think - that's a 125 mil PCB, twice the thickness of a standard PCB.
JOSHUA
"Damn"
*demonitized*
15:55 "War Games" movie reference 😂😂. The OG hacker movie.
the trusty but elusive 9.999K resistor
I think the problem was, that you entered the hostname in the URL field and the browser wanted to connect via https. I think the server only supports http.
I was all like "I can put my trumpet from high school on the web?!"
Seeing the prices of the "commercial" GPIB to * adaptors had me laughing... might take a look at this stuff when there's an image for an ESP8266 or something to do the interfacing. Just plugging a little Wifi enabled "dongle" to the back of the device, that'd be really awesome :-D
The Prologix adapters are affordable enough for home gamers. NI are known for overcharging for everything.
Looks like a fun project for ESP8266 or ESP32. I bet somebody has done it already. That + Zoc terminal (Rexx scripting) and you can do anything.
netbios is a windows name resolution system, which isnt the same as DNS which is what you specified on the phone which isn't windows of course.
Hi, I am going to create a pcb to connect lihtium ion batteries and they can reach current spikes up to 60 Amps, now I am wondering how I should place the vias the best way possible? as even as possible or right behind the connection point with the battery, or where the batteries are connected in series... I really don`t know and would appreciate help a lot.
Thank you in advance, Jonas :)
Edit: I have used Saturn PCB, still don't know which diameter is the best and where to place the vias... I have an area of 30x70mm and 30width x 140length (mm)
Post in the EEVBlog Forums. You'll get a response there.
i think it's not really needed today. AR488 support Wireless Communication and you can use GPIB over Bluetooth simply with $5 Arduino board
👍👍👍
Ok, bought one. Now to pull my Hitachi VC6020 out of the garage...
There were 9 available when I ordered mine. There are now only 3 available. Better get 'em quick.
"Don't turn it on... Take it apart!" 🔩🔧
Traitor!
Only one left on ebay and 8 sold within the last 24 hours. I guess that's your fault, Dave ;)
Bummer, think that means I won't be able to use this on my Tektronix 585A scope.
Nor my Tek 547 that sits just off to my left ...
can you mirror test equipment display onto a monitor by simply using a USB to HDMI adaptor ?
Greetings, Professor Falken. Shall we play a game?
Love to.
How about a nice game of chess
Nice!
An esp32 would be perfect for this.... If gpib included a power pin. I guess a little board with an esp32, usb-c port, ethernet with PoE and a micro SD slot would be just about the cheapest way to implement a universal gpib adapter.
why would you use an ESP32 as the controller if you plan to use PoE and thus an ethernet wire connection?
@@uwezimmermann5427 Ethernet and PoE would just be one option as the esp32 supports Ethernet as well. I'd think WiFi and USB C for power would be most useful for most people, but being able to go fully wired if wanted would be a nice touch.
The esp32 has enough power and flexibility to power everything from a standalone logger to a USB or network adapter. Most of the complexity would be in the software and testing, so might as well make it universal.
@@uwezimmermann5427 and why not just go wireless only? Might be measuring something where the extra RF would screw up results.
@@RobertSzasz There is some potential in wireless adapter, for experimenting and intermittent setups... But for somewhat serious use, I think that wired ethernet is uncomparably more stable than wifi. I always try to follow the simple rule that if it is a permanent installation which does not need to be portable then it is better to wire-in.
@@gabiold I agree. the idea is that for ~$12 you can have a pretested module that does all the wireless stuff and is a decent processor, so why not build the support interface around it.
This video created a surge of interest that depleted our stock (thank you Dave!). We have another production run in progress and should have stock approximately Sept 29, 2019. If you are in the US and contact me directly at SteveHx@HxEngineering.com I can offer a discount by avoiding the eBay fees. Sorry, overseas users: The savings by using eBay's Global Shipping Program outweighs their fees - and it works very well.
Update from the creator of KISS-488: KISS-488 is back in stock and ready to ship. eBay's Global Shipping Program is the way to go if you aren't in the US, as it saves a bunch on customs fees etc. For shipping to the USA, I offer $10 off if you just PayPal to me at SteveHx@HxEngineering.com. I also offer $10 off per unit for quantities of 5 or more.
been using prologix and ezgpib for 10+ years...
"Ethernet wasn't invented".
It was invented in 73/74, Dave.
Just how old is this test gear you are scoring from eBay!! :)
IIRC early ethernet you just nailed a wire into another wire or something crazy like that.
so the actual resolution of the old Keithley is 10 atto amps? O.o
Surely IEEE-488 not IEEE-4008
This confused me a little bit, too. He clearly said 'four double-0 eight' several times, but when I looked, the equipment said 488, which would be 'four double-8,' right?
You are awesome. Thank you so much for posting this!
Cool!
$150 is a bit pricey...
nah, seems about right.
As opposed to what?
@@jtsotherone in general, not opposed to anything.
How much would an old ISA or PCI GPIB card cost.
@@simontay4851 No PC supports ISA today. But you can get a used PCI card for $50. But before I buy this, I would buy an old USB-GPIB adapter for $80. Because the cables are expensive and they're very annoying.
The Keep it Simple Stupid 488 lol what a name
2:47 Made in Hungary! and U.S.A. Guess it was a joint effort.
They just remove the sticker for the US market. That way americans don't think it's some communist spy device, and will gladly pay a premium because "Made in U.S.A." means quality right.
Not sure where you got that. KISS-488 is definitely Made in USA. Some of the individual components may be imported.
not quite the same but I use a prologix "Ethernet to GPIB" controller to drive a 26GHz oscillator as part of our EMC test kit. you just send the GPIB commands to it and it handles the handshaking etc.
prologix.biz/gpib-ethernet-controller.html
Hahaha Nice wargames reference xD
You could put a Commodore PET on the web...
build ya own with an ESP8266/ESP32
Knock yourself out.
Problem is finding GPIB connectors at a reasonable price.
02:00 'Universial' :D
The term 'script kiddie' was coined to describe a wanna-be hacker who uses scripts to run attacks instead of applying knowledge. Ie a script kiddie just downloads Metasploit and runs it like a shotgun, not knowing why any particular exploit works. In general script kiddies wouldn't be capable of developing software that can control a device (via telnet or any other way). They, by definition, only use other peoples' software.
Wow, this is great
Ha! Awesome. It also needs PoE
Android "refuses" any local DNS ...
Does it support IPv6?
Aaaa sweet
Oh my gosh Dave , I think you really don't have to much experience with GPIB. Your meeeh or another allusions are out of topic , please RTFM about GPIB and why it is used to this days.
Charge your cell phone battery !
His uBeam must be out of order.
National Instruments... triggered.
I **love** LabVIEW ...
Are all Americans "yanks" to non-Americans? Here, "yankee" means someone from the Northeast
More polite with a Y than with the W. Heh
Wow this is more younger than .................................