ANALOGUE TAPE in a DIGITAL AGE part 3: Fostex R8 in action

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 94

  • @vintageMIDI
    @vintageMIDI 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Useful comparison. Back in the day analog wasn't so expensive but digital was, now it's reversed. Yo've gotta really love the sound of analog and be willing to maintain the machines. When it's done right it has some magic.
    Your brother grooves big time, making the analog sound even better!

  • @ixtravague80
    @ixtravague80 5 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I did not realize the sound I had always been looking for was actually tape. Thank you for a great video

  • @Geekermo
    @Geekermo 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you thank you for these Fostex R8 series, I bought one 10 years ago and I've recorded many songs on it but never managed how to properly adjust it.
    In this recoding you get in the fostex a lovely tape saturation, it's great.

  • @hughchapman5319
    @hughchapman5319 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Something more open about the sound of the tape recording. Various tricks & plugins can help make the digital recording sound better of course, but it's a pleasure to have that warm open sound as a natural consequence of an analogue recording technology

  • @malcolmbliss777
    @malcolmbliss777 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I had the R8 when it first came out (1990). What an incredible machine. Wish I would’ve kept it.

    • @jessihawkins9116
      @jessihawkins9116 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      it came out in 1989 🙄

    • @malcolmbliss777
      @malcolmbliss777 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jessihawkins9116 Ordered it in Sept of ‘89, as I remember. Didn’t arrive until January.

  • @Vladislaw81
    @Vladislaw81 6 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    Fostex R8 sounds way better.

  • @EdMelendez
    @EdMelendez 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Love that high end.

  • @zaporozac100
    @zaporozac100 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I have Fostex R8, thank you Dan for shownig people diference between analog and digital recording, I hope that this video will stop those ignorant talking nonsense about tape recorders!

    • @hxhdfjifzirstc894
      @hxhdfjifzirstc894 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      He didn't show anybody anything, unfortunately... except that he doesn't understand the difference between proper analog levels and proper digital levels. They're totally different and that's why he got bad results.

  • @domdraper3221
    @domdraper3221 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If you ignore the massive boost to the high end... the tape recording of the drums sounds slightly compressed. I feel like my tape machine adds a better colour to the sound.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes-the bias is a pig to get right on these machines as it’s hyper sensitive and of course only a combination head...!

    • @domdraper3221
      @domdraper3221 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DanBakerMusic I just got one of these tape machines with a vintage mixer. I’m super excited to see how it all goes. So now I have two tape machines.

  • @wehappyfewmusic
    @wehappyfewmusic 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great comparison, I wish I could find a working R8 for £20. Prices have shot up in the last 4 years! 😅

  • @joldschool64
    @joldschool64 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You can never go wrong with analog

  • @NME_REK
    @NME_REK ปีที่แล้ว

    Dam that sounds so much better on the Fostex

  • @christopherdunn317
    @christopherdunn317 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    its interesting when i used my four track machine and did a side by side play back this is what i noticed as well the freq are much more noticeably than on the digital its like you noticed that the digital is just plain and flat, where the tape shines out in the highs.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think it's modern tape formulations that are more difficult to bias on the machine: the trouble with the R8 is that there are only two heads, so you can't see what you adjust while recording, and the fact that the bias control is ultra sensitive makes it tricky.
      Still, I'd rather have more treble than less, as reducing it on playback cuts tape hiss anyway!

    • @KingBlonde
      @KingBlonde 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      And cutting highs is a lot more pleasant than adding highs. As boost EQ isn't great for surgical EQ and high freq stuff, whereas subtractive EQ is the way to go for these functions.

  • @lucasweisman3046
    @lucasweisman3046 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Super informative! Thanks!

  • @apislapis
    @apislapis 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent video series Dan. I found the section on demagnetisation so informative. I inherited an Akai GX4000D a couple of years ago which really needs a full service, but not sure who to trust to do it near Merseyside. I'd love to use it in my synth studio to add a touch of saturation to my vintage synths. That's why I think your video is still relevant in 2021/22. Thank you Dan, loving your studio/man cave. Subbed.

  • @MrSychophant
    @MrSychophant 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I use logic 10 and I have Fostex E16. I’ve never compared the two back to back, so I thought your demonstration was useful.

  • @cristhiantoro851
    @cristhiantoro851 6 ปีที่แล้ว +32

    Amazing!
    I insist, the analog tape recording studios should return!
    the digital world sucks!

    • @paulotonedef
      @paulotonedef 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm in the process of building an analog recording studio for bands. I'm using this very machine, to start with. Along with some Tube Mics. I'm going old school Glyn Johns on drums etc.

    • @57too
      @57too 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      CORRECT!!! The menu surfing alone with DAWs is ridiculous, not to mention the many thousands of things you can get distracted by with DAWs....as opposed to tape which is intuitive with actual real life tape machine and mixer knobs! You record FASTER with much more FEELING on a tape machine. Death To DAW!

  • @arbautimusic
    @arbautimusic 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i used to have one of them, sold it to fund a TASCAM TSR-8

  • @renevalle826
    @renevalle826 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It seems that the tape recorder gets more of the High freq instead of the laptop that catches more the mids of the recording material. Great video !

  • @canaldavidaproducoes
    @canaldavidaproducoes 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Top pra sempre fostex r8

  • @pcallas66
    @pcallas66 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Tape sounds way better.

  • @johanfwahlberg
    @johanfwahlberg 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    So I'm keeping my R8, I guess.

  • @soundscenesdcmusicmedia2709
    @soundscenesdcmusicmedia2709 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    There's a clear, prominent high-end boost on the playback of the R8 vs teh digital... this goes way beyond just digi/analog- characteristics... what are your rec-vs-PB response measurements (say at 50-100-1k-5k-10k- 20k) on the R8 at -20... -10... 0... and +10?

  • @dbo514
    @dbo514 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey Dan, what's a good price for these do you think. What you paid is insanely cheap but something more realistic?

  • @thallrudedjentstorm1756
    @thallrudedjentstorm1756 ปีที่แล้ว

    Actually this Fostex sounds biased wrong to me. Maybe the EQ on the machine is set to high? But it sounds more like wrong bias. It's a very drastic sound difference. Good video tho. Thanks!

  • @jaakkoheikura6429
    @jaakkoheikura6429 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Could you explain how you have routed the R8 with your mixer and computer? I'm interested in analogue tape recording but I don't have any experience in that area. For example do you use the preamps from your mixer or some other way? Thank you for these great videos and greetings from Finland!

    • @stephenbaldassarre2289
      @stephenbaldassarre2289 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Jaakko Heikura The most efficient way to integrate analogue recording is to use insert cables to route the mixer's preamps to the tape recorder and the signal passes through the rest of the mixer from there. The computer is just fed by the mixer's buss outputs.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Here, my desk has two sets of outputs: the buss outs, and direct outs of every channel. The way my desk works is that the direct out of channels 1-8, and 9-16 can be switched either to the individual outs, or to the busses instead, so channels 1 and 9 can be fed to buss 1, 2 and 10 to buss 2, etc. Flexible!

    • @RoscoLevee
      @RoscoLevee 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DanBakerMusic this is really fantastic. But could you explain how it is all connected? I have a very similar set up and need tobuse tape and mac to record and mix. It's a real mess here at the moment, getting it all together.

  • @keithrichards4296
    @keithrichards4296 ปีที่แล้ว

    OK something wrong here. Tape *gently* rolls off/softens HF, not the opposite like in your test. Actually freq response *should be* pretty much close in both.

  • @BrazillianFOsho
    @BrazillianFOsho 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    wow the fostex recording sounds more open for some reason

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s very hard to set up the bias on a two head machine like this. Also, modern tape formulations do tend to offer more top end...

  • @richardchristie
    @richardchristie 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Dan, please could you explain how you have simultaneously split the signals from the microphones to both the tape machine and the sound card?

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Richard - I sent the output of the 8 buses of the mixing desk to both the soundcard and the tape machine - the input impedance of both devices is high enough not to affect the output capabilities of the mixing desk...

    • @richardchristie
      @richardchristie 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks for the quick reply! Right I see, so did you use something like a half-normalled patch bay or another passive splitting method, rather than a system with transformer/active elements?

  • @bryanciliberto
    @bryanciliberto 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a question. I recently acquired a working Fostex R8. My idea was the same as you demonstrate here. I want to track drums on tape and dump into my Pro Tools session. My question may be obvious, but I can't tell for sure. When I track onto the R8, while simultanously recording into Pro Tools. is the signal coming out off the R8, coming off the tape head or do I have to dump the R8's recording after it's been tracked (from a playback). It seems like it does, but it's hard to be 100% certain. Hope my question makes sense.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The R8 will only output its signal when it plays back. While recording, the outputs of the R8 are the same as the inputs.

    • @bryanciliberto
      @bryanciliberto 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DanBakerMusic Thanks!

  • @spottedliver
    @spottedliver 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sounds better than a Doctor Who episode.

  • @alphanumeric1529
    @alphanumeric1529 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    There is something wrong with your motu, for that much high frequency to be missing. There is just something not right going on with that sound comparison.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      alpha numeric I think it’s something to do with the biassing of the tape machine! It does sound a little unstable now....

  • @spottedliver
    @spottedliver 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm going to but his book. " A Higher Degree Of Fizziness"

    • @DogSerious
      @DogSerious 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wouldn't that hurt a little?
      You would have to use some kind of lubricant or you'll be feeling it the next day!

  • @rj_ramon
    @rj_ramon 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    20!?! How?! I can’t seem to find one under 600

  • @albertrobin9621
    @albertrobin9621 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Where can I buy good tape?! Thanks!!

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I haven’t looked in a while but I bought mine from Thomann.

  • @paulotonedef
    @paulotonedef 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    are you using Ampex 457 or rmgi lpr35? or something else? what's your opinion on tape for the r8?

    • @mask57000
      @mask57000 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey, if i can help, i have a fostex R8 to record my music, and the best tape for it, is Recording the masters, RPM LPR90

  • @Synth2000
    @Synth2000 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    what interface were you using for the computer?

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      David here i used a MOTU 828 Mkii...

  • @billymack4258
    @billymack4258 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video! I have a Fostex R8 and a Fostex G24 Do you know how to sync R8 or G24 with my DAW cubase pro , apollo 6x? I would be willing to pay someone to help me with that. Thanks

  • @samot1808
    @samot1808 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    To me it sounds like 10khz is too high on the Fostex, maybe the hifreq calibration was not spot on?

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It’s most likely to be the bias: a nearly impossible task to set up properly on a two head system..

  • @hxhdfjifzirstc894
    @hxhdfjifzirstc894 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is a fundamental misunderstanding of proper input levels. To record INTO a computer, your peaks on the digital meter should be around -18dBFS (NEGATIVE 18). This gives you 18dB of headroom before you start clipping. If you INSIST on cranking up the gain until your digital meter hits nearer to 0dB (because you think it looks better) then your ANALOG GAIN STAGES are going to be running at +18dB (POSITIVE 18), when they are meant to run around 0dB. And yes, you do have analog stages in the AD converter.
    Get it? UNDERSTAND THIS. 0dB in the comptuer is +18dB in the ANALOG world. It's not about how bad digital sucks. It's the fact that idiots are cranking up their preamps all the way to +18dB just to get the digital meter closer to 0dBFS. Facepalm.
    The trick is to keep your analog gear all the way down where it should be (use your analog meters) and record digitally at -18dbFS. AFTER it's already recorded, normalize the wave file to whatever level works best with your digital plugins.

    • @firecatfly
      @firecatfly 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Ah yes, the adult in the room reminds everyone that the two formats are as different as Venus and Mars. Great info.

    • @christophermattox1820
      @christophermattox1820 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just curious, but would that, in your opinion, then settle the "fidelity debate"? I'm not a tech head. I'm a writer who produces his own stuff, has gear and likes to have fun. The analogue/ digital debate has been around for a long time. I've never really equated it to Just levels. in this debate words like "warmth" and "human feel" are often used. In listening to the example in this video I heard the difference but thought nothing of "volume" and "db levels". With the R8, there just seemed to be "more to listen to", is the best way I can describe it. I totally appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Not sure if "cranking up ... tube amps" makes people idiots though. Statements like that is usually a sign of someone with insecurities. Daddy issues and stuff. That said... you seem like you know what you're talking about. Thank you for the information.

  • @bbllaanncc
    @bbllaanncc 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    how on earth did you get it for just £20?

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It basically didn’t work. I had some remedial repairs to do!

  • @spottedliver
    @spottedliver 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Tell the drummer he's hired, but he's going to have to put on pants.

  • @TerraNovaSpirit
    @TerraNovaSpirit ปีที่แล้ว

    🙏🏼🇨🇦♥️🌹🌺🌻🌸🌼🙏🏼

  • @alanhaynes418
    @alanhaynes418 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The computer sounds really flat and boring compared to the R8.
    I have been offered a Brenell 1 inch mini 8 which I am seriously contemplating getting.

  • @DAIMANization
    @DAIMANization 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I want to say that digital version sound really dull and thin lifeless compared to the analogue version I want a reel to reel but for mastering stage. Hard to find one that reasonable money but offers good quality.

  • @jessica_video_projects
    @jessica_video_projects 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Omg what would metal guitars sound like going through that 🥳

  • @theblowupdollsmusic
    @theblowupdollsmusic 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I feel like these examples are reversed.

  • @e30-88
    @e30-88 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bei der Bandgeschwindigkeit, wieviel Minuten bekommst denno da auf die 500m Spule drauf?? 10-15 min ??? Das is doch en Witz !!! Vor allem zum Vergleich ne schrottige LapTop Soundkarte zu nehmen. Nimm doch mal ne aktuelle Creative Sound Blaster AE-9 Soundkarte die in der lage ist mit 32Bit und 384KHz aufzuzeichnen. Selbst meine uralt
    Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titan Fatal1ty Professional Series klingt mit ihren 32Bit und 96000Hz um Welten besser als dieser Steinzeit Lap Top!!! Und kommt jetzt bitte nicht mit dem Argument, ne CD hat nur 16Bit und 42KHz. Denn keine Sau nimmt noch auf CD auf!!!! Wir leben in der Zeit von NVME M2 SSD.!!! Ich hab auch noch ne kleine AKAI GX 260D und bekomme immer wieder mal meine retro Rückfälle, doch da ich nicht so realitätsferne Vergleiche mache bleibt sie wohl doch weiter ein cooles Deko Möbelstück meine AKAI!!!!!! Und auch die Fostex R8 war schon 2017 nur noch ein Relikt vergangener Zeiten. Und wenn ich heut manchmal bei eBay z.B. eine Teac X-1000 für 1350 € sehe, könnt ich mich totlachen über diese Ganztags Träumer!!!!

  • @pearlmax
    @pearlmax 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Basically this is Foxtex audio processing vs whatever shitty sound card is built into that old Macbook. Analog vs digital has virtually nothing to do with the difference in quality. You are making it out to be something it's not.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      pearlmax I think you might have missed the sound card that I have used with the Mac, in addition to the analogue mixer used with the Fostex...

    • @pearlmax
      @pearlmax 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DanBakerMusic Well then something else is the problem, or you sabotaged the digital version. Because guess what, the audio track in your TH-cam video is digital. Why can't people just be realistic and admit that they enjoy the nostalgia of inferior analog recordings and the hardware that reproduces it? Instead of making claims that it's superior to digital formats? Analog is NOT superior to uncompressed digital wave forms.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Who said analogue was superior? It’s different. That’s all. I, as a former audio technical engineer for EMI understand the theory. Actually, although I like the sound of LPs, they don’t compare to CDs or other uncompressed formats.
      It’s important to keep a level head with videos like this: it’s a simple illustration. I’ve not “sabotaged” the digital at all. If anything, the amount of bias on the tape recorder is the culprit.

  • @Bachelove
    @Bachelove 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Overbiased the tape machine

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ha! I’d actually underbiased it...the trimmer pots are very sensitive and also given the combo rec/play head, it’s an utter stinker to get right. The Studer 2” machines I used to work on are a dream compared...

    • @Bachelove
      @Bachelove 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DanBakerMusic I know how you feel, I have an MSR16. 16 tracks to calibrate with only two heads.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I’ve since rebiased the machine but done it by ear compared to the same signal through the computer, using a hi hat loop with crash cymbals. It’s been a far more sympathetic outcome!

  • @stephenbaldassarre2289
    @stephenbaldassarre2289 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sounds like a calibration issue to me. I know R8s aren't exactly "pro" machines but the sound shouldn't be that different.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yeah: the biasing of these machines is really quite tricky, especially with modern tape formulations. It was a piece of cake on a Studer 24 track back in the day.
      Still like the fizz from the Fostex!

    • @stephenbaldassarre2289
      @stephenbaldassarre2289 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      sacredrealm You have no idea what to expect unless you at least test the calibration. It might be really close to perfect as is or it might be terrible. You can see if the machine works right first, then move on to calibration.

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah - as Stephen says - use the machine as normal and then you'll be able to hear if it needs lining up. Yes - mine is definitely different from the computer, and the bias pots on the Fostex are very sensitive - all the biasing is done within half a turn of the trimmer pot. As it's two head only, you'll have a right old time sorting it. Depending on the tape formulation (needs to be 1 mil thick ideally, rather than 1.5 mil on pro decks), the bias has to be applied over a peak in treble response. Turn the bias up until the treble response is at its highest, and then keep turning up so the resulting treble response is 2-3dB lower. This is called over-biasing: under-biasing leads to distortion.
      It must be remembered that a tape recorder is a musical instrument - it will always colour the sound to a certain extent. If you like what the tape deck does to your sounds, keep it!

    • @DanBakerMusic
      @DanBakerMusic  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      TBH I'd avoid multitrack cassette - alignment on those is virtually impossible, and a reel to reel deck will withstand repeated use on one tape far better than cassette. It's also becoming hard to source cassettes, and you'd need Chrome ones too, for better treble response, lower noise and durability. If you have a deck with dbx noise reduction, it's just terrible! I had a Tascam Porta05 in the 1980s and much as it was amazing to have, the recordings were hideous. If you find an E16 that sounds ok, I reckon you'd have a better time with it! If you have a machine that needs small adjustments only, the chances are you could tweak it without a test tape. Just give it a proper clean and demag first..

    • @stephenbaldassarre2289
      @stephenbaldassarre2289 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Seconded; I have a TASCAM 424MKIII (double-speed) and while it's cool/handy for what it is, it's no match for even a low-end open-reel deck. I really recommend trying to find a 3-head deck though because perfect calibration is almost impossible on a 2-head deck.
      Bear in mind also, if playback sounds significantly different from what you fed it, something isn't right.

  • @theunionbeats1
    @theunionbeats1 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    computer wins. nothing beats digital