Right on! Again I feel your unconventional approach is really the best method. The conventional practice of focusing on tones right from the beginning, like trying to learn all the grammar rules from the beginning, is actually counter productive! you could treat focusing on correct tones similarly to how you you would treat focusing on the grammar-don’t focus on it at the beginning, but you wait until you have reached a certain basic level and you already have a certain intuitive feel for the tones (acquired rather than learned). Only then is it helpful to formally focus on the tones specifically to make your speaking sound more correct.
This was a good video, I've been thinking about learning Chinese at some point later this year or next year, and I did get a bit anxious about tones and pronunciation. Not fearful of learning the language though, because I've learned (and I'm still learning) Korean for 3 years so I have experience with learning languages. But anyways, thank you so much! Stay safe out there. 🙌
I thought that was the whole idea behind it though. Getting the tones correctly, because the same word with the same spelling in 4 different tones can mean 4 different things.
It's not that I don't focus on getting the tones correct. It's just that I am focusing more on trusting me ears and my brain's ability to internalize the rhythm and intonation of how they occur in actual sentences and phrases by focusing more on those, rather than just focusing entirely on learning the tone of each individual word or character in isolation like many learners do. I hope that makes sense! Also, if you get most of the tones right, it's not as bad as you described because the listener will have the context of your conversation and other words to figure out what you meant.
And also as Chinese when we hear foreigners speaking Chinese even with accent or wrong tones, with context you always can understand well and continue the conversation -- which is very important for learning and improvong a language: use it as a tool. And I also always try to tell my friends not to get demotivated only by the tones.
@@jlau7725 you could treat focusing on correct tones similarly to how you you would treat focusing on the grammar-don’t focus on it at the beginning, but you wait until you have reached a certain basic level and you already have a certain intuitive feel for the tones (acquired rather than learned). Only then is it helpful to formally focus on the tones specifically to make your speaking sound more correct.
Tones don't encode for meaning, so I find the designation of "tonal language" misleading and you don't necessarily have to think about tones when speaking, you speak words as words. I'd say though that I found it was a good thing to focus on tones and pronunciation first. But what you learn also is to forget a bit about it... You can't pronounce a sentence fluently by breaking it down into tones (it's just too much to hold in your head and it just won't flow), but you do have to train your ear and the relevant muscles as to be able to utter it properly. The strategy I'd suggest is: 1. Learn to recognize and reproduce the tones and the different sounds, but 2. Learn words or sentences by mimicking 3. Listen analytically to make sure you're reproducing the tones and the sounds correctly and adjust as you go. It's also useful to learn about the rules pertaining to tone changes (tone sandhis)
Dude, pinyin. I just started learning and have realised that the Roman-based transliteration is equal parts confusing and helpful for a language that doesn’t use the Roman alphabet. But I’m also aware that learning hanzi at this level is too much to ask. So mimicry seems the way forward!
I luv money. The Chinese luv money. The Chinese also luv quickens an accuracy. In order to do that, I must learn with quickens. I must read the words without listening. To slow when listening. Hence reading the word is faster. So I myself, need the tone first. Which is faster. I can write an read faster than I can listen.
I think when learning any language, there's a lot of unintentional pedagogical snobbery that shrouds access to the newbie. For example, very recently, one of my friends out here in Japan said, "I didn't buy this book because it was in romanji and I know you think that's a terrible idea ... " and I thought, "hmm that's interesting ... I don't think I've ever said anything about whether its good to learn hiragana and katakana at the beginning or whether it's good to just dive in" ... and so I said, "well, to be honest, you live in Japan, you'll get corrected with your pronunciation anyway, you'll learn hiragana and katakana sometime ... so yeah, fill your boots ... I guess the reason you've got the impression that you have to learn hiragana and katakana is that's what a lot of people will tell you ... and maybe that's right for you ... and maybe that isn't right for you ... I say do whatever work for you ... I guess with anything regarding a language learning journey, is the people further up the path to enlightenment will always look back and say, "oh, yes, this route is the best ... because that's the one I took and it worked for me." Of course, there are a million squillion routes anyone could take and the most traveled ones are the ones that people espouse ... but like I've heard, "You must learn the Chinese tones first" ... is like an achievement for many-a-beginner learner of Chinese will gain, I guess its a rite of passage ... thus unwittingly, no sooner has a student been rewarded for their tone learning endeavour, they now have this perceived belt of achievement for the newbie to covet ... and thus be told, "oh yes, you must systematically learn the tones as I did ... oh yes ... for that is the way ... hmm ... yessss". (Sorry, I'm kind of babbling ... this post should really be a blog post shouldn't it).
@@RobinMacPhersonFilms yes, exactly. I'm planning on starting a youtube video series on learning kanji ... essentially the underlying theme is gonna be, "do whatever floats your boat!!!" ... as basically, albeit I consider the Heisig "RTK" method ideal method for getting proficient enough in recognising characters quickly enough to gain the motivation for the long haul slog of learning to read kanji .... learning to read kanji takes dedication ... and time.
Great video, I like your thinking process. Why are you so undersubscribed? The video/sound quality is good, you know how to talk in a compelling fashion, what's wrong?
Right on! Again I feel your unconventional approach is really the best method. The conventional practice of focusing on tones right from the beginning, like trying to learn all the grammar rules from the beginning, is actually counter productive!
you could treat focusing on correct tones similarly to how you you would treat focusing on the grammar-don’t focus on it at the beginning, but you wait until you have reached a certain basic level and you already have a certain intuitive feel for the tones (acquired rather than learned). Only then is it helpful to formally focus on the tones specifically to make your speaking sound more correct.
thanks for the advices, I was stressing so much about havingthe tones right
You're welcome @Frédéric ! I'm really glad that it was helpful 😄
I love your presentations.
I live near the Mackinac Bridge in Michigan. It's beautiful!
This was a good video, I've been thinking about learning Chinese at some point later this year or next year, and I did get a bit anxious about tones and pronunciation. Not fearful of learning the language though, because I've learned (and I'm still learning) Korean for 3 years so I have experience with learning languages. But anyways, thank you so much! Stay safe out there. 🙌
I thought that was the whole idea behind it though. Getting the tones correctly, because the same word with the same spelling in 4 different tones can mean 4 different things.
It's not that I don't focus on getting the tones correct. It's just that I am focusing more on trusting me ears and my brain's ability to internalize the rhythm and intonation of how they occur in actual sentences and phrases by focusing more on those, rather than just focusing entirely on learning the tone of each individual word or character in isolation like many learners do. I hope that makes sense! Also, if you get most of the tones right, it's not as bad as you described because the listener will have the context of your conversation and other words to figure out what you meant.
And also as Chinese when we hear foreigners speaking Chinese even with accent or wrong tones, with context you always can understand well and continue the conversation -- which is very important for learning and improvong a language: use it as a tool. And I also always try to tell my friends not to get demotivated only by the tones.
@@jlau7725 you could treat focusing on correct tones similarly to how you you would treat focusing on the grammar-don’t focus on it at the beginning, but you wait until you have reached a certain basic level and you already have a certain intuitive feel for the tones (acquired rather than learned). Only then is it helpful to formally focus on the tones specifically to make your speaking sound more correct.
Tones don't encode for meaning, so I find the designation of "tonal language" misleading and you don't necessarily have to think about tones when speaking, you speak words as words. I'd say though that I found it was a good thing to focus on tones and pronunciation first. But what you learn also is to forget a bit about it... You can't pronounce a sentence fluently by breaking it down into tones (it's just too much to hold in your head and it just won't flow), but you do have to train your ear and the relevant muscles as to be able to utter it properly. The strategy I'd suggest is: 1. Learn to recognize and reproduce the tones and the different sounds, but 2. Learn words or sentences by mimicking 3. Listen analytically to make sure you're reproducing the tones and the sounds correctly and adjust as you go. It's also useful to learn about the rules pertaining to tone changes (tone sandhis)
Dude, pinyin. I just started learning and have realised that the Roman-based transliteration is equal parts confusing and helpful for a language that doesn’t use the Roman alphabet. But I’m also aware that learning hanzi at this level is too much to ask. So mimicry seems the way forward!
I luv money. The Chinese luv money. The Chinese also luv quickens an accuracy.
In order to do that, I must learn with quickens. I must read the words without listening.
To slow when listening. Hence reading the word is faster. So I myself, need the tone first. Which is faster. I can write an read faster than I can listen.
I think when learning any language, there's a lot of unintentional pedagogical snobbery that shrouds access to the newbie. For example, very recently, one of my friends out here in Japan said, "I didn't buy this book because it was in romanji and I know you think that's a terrible idea ... " and I thought, "hmm that's interesting ... I don't think I've ever said anything about whether its good to learn hiragana and katakana at the beginning or whether it's good to just dive in" ... and so I said, "well, to be honest, you live in Japan, you'll get corrected with your pronunciation anyway, you'll learn hiragana and katakana sometime ... so yeah, fill your boots ... I guess the reason you've got the impression that you have to learn hiragana and katakana is that's what a lot of people will tell you ... and maybe that's right for you ... and maybe that isn't right for you ... I say do whatever work for you ... I guess with anything regarding a language learning journey, is the people further up the path to enlightenment will always look back and say, "oh, yes, this route is the best ... because that's the one I took and it worked for me." Of course, there are a million squillion routes anyone could take and the most traveled ones are the ones that people espouse ... but like I've heard, "You must learn the Chinese tones first" ... is like an achievement for many-a-beginner learner of Chinese will gain, I guess its a rite of passage ... thus unwittingly, no sooner has a student been rewarded for their tone learning endeavour, they now have this perceived belt of achievement for the newbie to covet ... and thus be told, "oh yes, you must systematically learn the tones as I did ... oh yes ... for that is the way ... hmm ... yessss". (Sorry, I'm kind of babbling ... this post should really be a blog post shouldn't it).
@@RobinMacPhersonFilms yes, exactly. I'm planning on starting a youtube video series on learning kanji ... essentially the underlying theme is gonna be, "do whatever floats your boat!!!" ... as basically, albeit I consider the Heisig "RTK" method ideal method for getting proficient enough in recognising characters quickly enough to gain the motivation for the long haul slog of learning to read kanji .... learning to read kanji takes dedication ... and time.
Great video, I like your thinking process. Why are you so undersubscribed? The video/sound quality is good, you know how to talk in a compelling fashion, what's wrong?
DO A LITTLE BIT OF CARDIO
Mum 😂😂😂