Grinding on the Table Saw? Let's Try it
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Before you get in a big hysterical panic about how dangerous this is - or more correctly how dangerous you THINK it is - I should tell you that I got this idea from Fine Woodworking magazine published in the 1980's. Go scream at them :)
Seriously, it's spinning at around the same speed as it would be on a bench grinder and still has a guard (under the saw) much like that does. It's a little more open on top but this isn't and would not be for heavy duty grinding. It's for sharpening which is light grinding. An insert for the table saw that fits neatly around the wheel is a good idea.
That said, if you do decide to do this, it's YOUR responsibility. If something goes wrong, you are to blame - no one forced you to do it and if you think it's not safe don't do it.
Anyway, it works great. I was able to sharpen 5 sets of knives for my jointer and planer and that's a total replacement cost of over $300. The planer knives are the disposable types that aren't made to be sharpened, but I've found that you can sharpen these at least once and more, depending on how much you need to grind off to restore the edge.
Taking it to the next level on the stone and then stropping is optional, but doesn't take long and seems to be worth it. At a minimum you need to get rid of the wired edge that grinding produces.
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Before you get in a big hysterical panic about how dangerous this is - or more correctly how dangerous you THINK it is - I should tell you that I got this idea from Fine Woodworking magazine published in the 1980's. Go scream at them :)
Seriously, it's spinning at around the same speed as it would be on a bench grinder and still has a guard (under the saw) much like that does. It's a little more open on top but this isn't and would not be for heavy duty grinding. It's for sharpening which is light grinding. An insert for the table saw that fits neatly around the wheel is a good idea.
That said, if you do decide to do this, it's YOUR responsibility. If something goes wrong, you are to blame - no one forced you to do it and if you think it's not safe don't do it.
Anyway, it works great. I was able to sharpen 5 sets of knives for my jointer and planer and that's a total replacement cost of over $300. The planer knives are the disposable types that aren't made to be sharpened, but I've found that you can sharpen these at least once and more, depending on how much you need to grind off to restore the edge.
Taking it to the next level on the stone and then stropping is optional, but doesn't take long and seems to be worth it. At a minimum you need to get rid of the wired edge that grinding produces.
I am glad you took into consideration of the speed of your bench saw and grinder. Being a fitter grinding wheel can throw apart at high speed please anyone attempting to do this check the speeds of your machines first.. I must say your setup and attention to detail is spot on. Thank you for sharing.
Looks plenty safe to me, very clever indeed sir!
🎯🎯🎯👍
Apart from the speed question - which you’ve addressed - I can’t see how this is especially dangerous. Since everything is fixed, seems like it’s actually less dangerous than using a grinder.
I would not do this with a cheap table saw, the bearing mounts in my dad's old one were plastic and had broke
you get a little bit of wobble in that stone and you may need an ambulance
the taper adjustment to grind across the whole wheel was ingenious. nice job!
I was glad he did that too. Seemed silly to make grooves in the wheel and eventually the blade would drop into the groove and round the sharp edge.
Hello John,
I’m a seasoned viewer of all your channels. I’ve never commented before, but after this video I made an effort :)
Over the years, overall quality of your videos has improved dramatically, and this is a pure joy for me to watch them. And most of them always bring something new to me.
Thank you!
Thanks! Much appreciated :)
You're hands down on of the most impressive woodworkers/engineers on TH-cam. Wonderful video as always!
Putting that bevel on the base was a real genius move. Obvious in hindisight, but a perfectly simple and effective solution.
I think ideally the fence should be angled instead. That way all of the blade gets ground by the same full width of the wheel
@@fuzzy1dk I don't see how the fence angled would be any different than the cut he made on the sled. Can you explain what you mean?
It's a double edge sword. By putting the bevel on the base, now the squareness of your wheel comes into play. The wheel has to be absolutely square to the top of the saw or else one side of the stone will be lower than the other and it would give you a tapered blade. I think it's safer to just have it wear in one spot then just move the fence over a little to use up the entire wheel.
@@seephor I see what you mean, but he also spent a long time in the video talking about squaring the wheel. He even showed an improvement to the dressing tool. Seems to me that while it's a concern, he's addressed it thoroughly.
Came here to say the same thing. Took the project from meh to genius. Here I was trying to figure out a method of clamping the miter sled in place and using that as a guide instead of the fence, thereby running the blade perpendicular. And then bam, we'll just add a little bevel.
"I need to make new tools."
"For what?"
"To make new tools."
"For what?"
"To make new tools!"
The idea to mount the jig at an angle to use most of the grinding wheel width is brilliant. They use a similar trick when pulling overhead wires for trains. They never go in a straight line, but they are mounted at some offset on every mounting point, so the locomotive coupler wear is spread across a wider area, hugely extending service life.
Cool, I manufactured Planer, Paper, Wood, Stump grinder & Tire shedder knives for 26 years working with "Triangle T Corporation" & "W. Fearnehough of America" & did it all from a raw steel bar all the way out the door a finished product... Love the Video
John showing how sharp the blade is by cutting up an instruction manual. For some reason this just seems like the right thing to do.
I made a jig for planer blades sharpening on my edge sander. I put on a worn belt. It works a treat. It’s basically a piece of wood with two stopped grooves and clamped with screws. This was to avoid the expense of a Tormek or similar. I like your jig but my saw is expensive so I would prefer something that works with a sander or grinding wheel. I think your system would be improved with a strong dust extractor to stop the grit and metal getting inside the saw or your lungs. My jig like yours can be just used without machinery if the blades aren’t too notched. I use a Worksharp for chisels and hand planes.
Really inspiring video.
"And in this installment of 'Other Uses for the Table Saw' we will be..."
I have an old Ryobi table saw in my basement that I should be doing cool stuff like this. That sharpener came out great and I like the solution for using the entire wheel.
I have to wonder John if this could ever be adapted to act as a broader sharpening system, hand plane, chisels etc. Fantastic stuff. Thanks!
Already did a chisel and will be making a jig for that and plane blades.
@@JohnHeisz Nice.
Having just reground the bevel on my block plane by hand I really appreciate the efficiency of this.
Brilliant design, John. IMHO, this is one of your most important videos. I was very pleased to see you showing the evolution of the design and the thinking behind it.
Genius!!! I think I would be afraid to use or make it, but I still think it is GENIUS!!!!
Great work on the sharping jig John! Thank you for sharing the video with us!👍💖😎JP
Upgrade that setup by setting a fence 45deg to the stone wheel and passing the blade across the wheel making sure it clears each side. This means every part of the blade and every part of the stone come into contact with each other for even grinding and stone wear. This is standard in the precision grinding industry.
Only two things spring to mind John (good idea though) I'd make it so a single pass used the whole width of the the grinding wheel this might negate the need to dress it so often, and perhaps make a zero clearance cover for it as grinding wheels have been known to explode, a friend had one put him in a coma for 6 months.
Thanks for another great video with out of the box ideas.
Should get millions of views on this one.
That’s good but a diamond wheel will save you the hassle of having to dress the stone and maintain the distance from the blade constant. On a different note upgrading to spiral cutter heads is going to be an even bigger improvement 😉
Diamond is not the solution.
My boss asked if trees have feelings a while ago, and hearing "I can take the off cut and glue it on to double the thickness" made me think, they're probably pretty happy.
Rofl
What a great idea John! This saves TONS of time!
Circa 1968, my grandfather had a similar arrangement using an older Atlas table saw and a grinding wheel that was (my best guess) about a 3000 grit polishing stone. And, like you, he had a jig with a slight angle to avoid straight-line wear on the polishing wheel. He used his set-up mostly for hand-plane blades, but I do recall seeing him use it for longer blades, possibly joiner or planer blades, but I'm not sure. His planer was a massive Yates American that likely weighed as much as a locomotive and claimed to have a blade sharpener built in, but if it did, I never figured it out.
That is awesome....that is beauty of your saw too....it allows you to make changes like this where commercial units have all the safety stuff in the way. I may actually convert a cheap table saw to this very setup to make myself a cheap surface grinder!
You're 'the' man. Period! Best, Serge
This jig and idea are very cool, I thing I will try it out some day too. For years I've been using a jig quite similar to your previous one.
Though sharpening to a super fine edge or even polishing is pointless, because after just small amount of planing (one average session) knives will be down to somewhere around 800 grit. Thats the grit that I always stop at and get shiny surfaces even on pine or spruce.
I impulsively bought a grinding disk on clearance thinking I could put it in my table saw. Later, I reconsidered my idea and thought "that's a ridiculous idea." Thanks for taking the plunge and experimenting!
I love this! John you are one of the main reasons I strarted getting into woodworking in the first place. Your creative takes and ideas really inspired me years ago and to this day, still manages to capture my attention and get my gears going even though I don't watch woodworking videos nearly as much anymore. Love tuning into your channel every now and then and you always manage to make me want to get back into the shop even though I barely have time anymore. keep the good stuff coming! Best wishes!
Awesome! Thank you!
Very nice!
Heh, while watching the video I came up with a couple suggestions but you already did them a little bit later in the video! :D
John, you are a genius!
Nicely done and handy John
Brilliant love the wedge idea 👏👏👏
Maybe I’m missing something but, that looks about as safe as you’re gonna get doing anything on a table saw. Great idea!
🤣🤣🤣 must have been the french side of the instructions, i do that to. Great idea John👍
Brilliant John, your ingenuity never ceases to amaze me, well done and thank you for your years of sharing your ideas and your undoubted skills.
👏🏻👊🏻John you’re one creative dude.
I love techniques like this that actually save you money and the effort pays for itself in no time.
very impressive
sometimes you need to see something or else you wouldn't think of it - putting the grinding stone on the table saw.. cool!
Great music on the outro!! Thanks for sharing. Cheers.
Whoa!! That angle to make it move across the entire wheel was pure genius. I am seriously impressed.
I was halfway through suggesting cutting a taper and then that section of the video began. Thank goodness for slow typing haha!
I once saw an old advert in a catalog from the 50s, where they sold arbor adaptors for mounting grinding stones in ulmia table saws, if i remember correctly. Also some jigs for several sharpening purposes.
With one of those chinese cbn wheels, maybe its possible to sharpen router bits.
Checking the sharpness of your blades is a good use for old books.
@ John Heisz I use to run grinders for a living and sharpening a wheel that was 3 foot diameter was how you got your finish on products. The slower you moved the diamond across the wheel the better or smoother the finish. A 4 micro finish is like a mirror, the best i could get was a 6 micro with hand sharpening the wheel. So next time you sharpen your wheel move the diamond as slow as possible. Just try it you have nothing to lose.
Worth remembering that when you are watching video, some parts are sped up and of course not everything is shown. This was actually several hours of work spread out over 3 days squeezed into a less than 10 minute video :)
What a cool idea John.👍👍
I thought about this one a little bit after I watched it yesterday... Neat idea but I'd rather do it with CBN wheels. No dressing required, can get them in different grits, solid aluminum so they won't explode, and bonus they won't ruffle the feathers of the comments section when you post another design revision of this jig
Well, this is friggin awesome. The added taper to this jig that see draws the blade across the whole width of the grinding stone? Genius.
Bloody great idea John
Another great idea!
Great idea. Very efficient way to sharpen the long knifes of the jointer. Bravo!
Oh hey thats pretty neat, never thought of that, really neat
Wonder if this could be used for sharpening reel bed knifes and even possible reel. Somehow have a reel spinning and sliding at the same time…🤔🤔🤔 could save so much money and time for some people.
Just a consider that you are grinding the knives individually and if you dont have a depth stop or simmilar to make them all the same width when sharpened then they will become out of ballance... just keep that in mind otherwise it looks like it works well...
John your ingenuity is so impressive. I love seeing all of your jigs/tools and ideas come together.
First!? Love your content John. Your practical approach is appreciated!
I was just going to suggest that you angle the back so the blade moves across the stone...when you went ahead an did it. Great video John thumbs up. I've been using my Dewalt planner for a couple of jobs now and have gotten a groove in the blades. It's not that bad and I can take out the ridge on the plank by doing a couple of passes with a scraper but when it comes time to sharpen them I'll be making your dancing your jig. BooYah!
I think this is great. It's similar to something I've been thinking of making as a poor man's surface grinder for machining, but inverted. You've given me some great ideas for improving the design.
6:50 - best use for a user manual!
Nice idea John 😁😁👍👍
Guy is really a mad scientist! Always great work!
Great job. Well done. I put it on my list to remember if my planer knifes are gone. Thanks for this inspiration 👍✌️
Well.... that was just awesome! 👍👍👍
WELL DONE AMIGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SMARTER not HARDER
Point of contention: The ridges halfway through the video are at least partly because of you pulling the blade along in the direction of rotation as well as against it. Drawing material along the direction of rotation is generally a good way to introduce all sorts of risks and artifacts. Always draw against the direction of rotation or, with proper rigidity and retention, crosswise to it.
Have you ever seen a surface grinder? Assuming the grinding wheel is 200mm diameter and a RPM of 4000, the surface speed is around 42 meters / second. At a guess the blade moving across the wheel is around 0.1 meters / second (couple seconds over 300mm), going the wrong way is equivalent of surface speed reduction of 0.2% which will do exactly nothing. 4000 RPM one way, 3992 RPM the other way.
@@CarlSuttondogmatic69 I have, Carl. I've also seen far too many idiots, including my own damned self, who believed as you do and had things happen that proved them wrong, ranging from simple ridge artifacts to broken tools to severe personal injuries that required extended hospitalization.
@@CarlSuttondogmatic69 Maybe it's not really a question of RPM, but more like a phenomenon which happens with router feeding : push cut vs climbing cut. Machine with great rigidity are good with climbing cut, human not as much.
@@CarlSuttondogmatic69 it's more a question of the direction of your holding force.
If you push something through your force is against the direction of rotation just by the nature of your workflow. If you pull it through it's with the rotation - therefore there's a higher chance that your grip onto the workpiece is not strong enough to hold it in the direction of the rotation. To some extent it is due to the way our muscles work...
@@jBurn_ It would be a point of issue with heavy grinding, in this case the wheel is barely touching the metal. Therefore the wheel doesn't get enough grip on the metal (which is secured in a jig) to create a dangerous situation, worst case scenario is a ruined blade and some cuts/bruises.
You are making me feel guilty, I have not sharpened my planer for waay too long ! still works ok!!
Great idea. Only thing I would add is that when sharpening you really want the direction of the scratches to tbe perpendicular to the edge, if they are parallel they can make the edge weaker. This is less of a problem the more polished the edge is but will be a more serious issue if you are only using a coarse abrasive.
ok, this is awesome. I will never do this.. but u do you!
Idea - use a tapered fence so that you can grid across the entire width of the stone
counter idea - watch the whole video
An interesting idea. Looks like it does a great job. Do you have any concerns about grinding grit getting into the raise/tilt mechanisms of the saw? Is there the potential for sparks from grinding to catch the saw dust inside the saw on fire?
Very cool idea but I couldn’t help think the same thing, plus do you turn on the dust collector? If no, it gets into the saw, if yes fire in the bag.
I thought the same, too. Sawdust plus spark equals boom! I'm sure John knows that though.
Perfect excuse for him to build a new table saw
Genius! especially using the whole width of the grinding stone. I love that idea.
Great idea John, looks like the results are good. Be careful pulling the jig back, this is the part that throws up the red flag. Enjoy your videos a lot. Thanks for sharing.🤔
i like this idea alot. only concern is the hump some cast iron table saws have in the middle of the table. i assume that would put a slight concave bow in the knives. still going to put this on the list of things to try :)
flatten that hump first.
Now that, is super cool! - Brilliant!
Genius. If only european table saws had arbours long enough to let us do this - or rebates, or pretty much anything except cut wood.
Thanks for sharing!! I hit the 👍 BUTTON
brilliant so easy so simple
good idea..thank you for your tip.
That's a great ideal...actually much more stable than just using a bench grinder or right angle grinding tool. Thanks for making and sharing this video
Genius. Pure genius.
I like it. Would be useful for chisels also.
Nice ! I think it can improve by even steeper angle of cut , at least 45deg that will bring longer lasting edge due to direction of microscopic grooves and ridges like when you correctly sharpen chisel on stone but over all brilliant !!
John your ideas are always brilliant
Another great idea 💡. You’ve done it again. I say genius. Love your creative ideas. Keep it up 👍
Insanely genius!
Honestly it makes a lot of sense. You have a solid table with a large working surface and miter slots for making grinding jigs and such.
John Heisz's Table Saw Grinder vs. This Old Tony's Surface Grinder: FIGHT!
Awesome idea
That's a novel ideal. Well done.
Genius sharpening jig, thanks for sharing John.
Love it! Thanks
This is genius John. I can see no reason not to do this. But I also thing you should move the blades only against the rotation of the grinding wheel.
This is great!
Beast mode. You’re a wizard.love it
Excellent work John! Thanks for the video.
On the H+S subject I've seen lots of things on YT that have made me wince and have even politely pointed out that in some cases but saw another channel that pointed out to viewers before using the saw 'Not Your Fingers NOT Your Problem' which is very true. Watching this video my first thought was that you're not daft you would have checked that it was safe to use in the saw my second was hmm would a MDF lapping wheel in the saw take the blades to the next level 🤔
Very nice work
slow your feed down on the finish passes and a really light cut would help. But I doubt you can get a light cut with the table saw.
Grind dust is a nasty abrasive that gets into everything, including table saw arbor bearings.
Well done!