If Arnor never fell, I would suspect the return of the King’s Men faction which would lead to another rise of a Numenorian superpower. There won’t be a Mordor faction though. Arnor would clean Mordor of all evil The dwarves would probably ally themselves or be enslaved Without Sauron, the elves would remain and rebuilt the elven kingdoms. However, The elven kingdoms would try to wage war but get massacred by the Numenorian Rhun alliance Arnor territory would expand the entire West of the Anduin river Harad and Mordor would be vassal states
Saurons plan was to weaken the Dunedain as much as possible. If Angmar had fallen, Sauron would have sought another base from which to attack Arnor (Dunlendings, Mountain Orcs, Gray Mountain Dragons)
True. But the problem was access. If Angmar had fallen or as I said in the vid, Arnor was never divided up, it would be near impossible to effectively attack Arnor. Orcs are bad, but theyre not organized or disciplined. A large, unified army would hold out against them and more than likely the other allies would recognize them as a threat and just do fall of angmar 2.0
Another thing to consider is that with a large population of men in arnor that it could result in groups of men moving east of the misty mountains and building settlements in the anduin valley leading to either new nations or colonies of arnor. it could also lead to more settlers in Gondor too. larger populations are likely to grow faster and those numbers will have to go somewhere. When I look at a map of middle earth I assume that Gondor is full of small villages, hamlets, homesteads, Inns and the like. I would also assume that Rohan and other states would have been the same as well. Obviously in Ithilien it is less likely to have small settlements due to the threat from Mordor but after you travel West of the Anduin there are likely settlements. I would assume Rohan would be the same. There are likely small villages and walled towns in the West fold and Eastfold up to the Anduin and Limlight. Seeing the size of Rohan's army it would be hard to have that many live in a few cities.
Migration over the misty mountains would be difficult I would think because theyre so treacherous. Not impossible but for large numbers would take awhile at the least. Thats said, then theres considering the other peoples already living east, depending on the time period. Rhovanion, the mirkwood elves, dwarves of erebor, and/or dale. I dont think they would let arnor walk in and annex their lands. I see what your getting at about the smaller settlements in the west though, and never thought about that. it was pretty desolate by the 3rd age and gondor was more preoccupied with the south and east
@@themiddle-earthphilosopher7780 i think Tolkien never made mention of villages,homestead ,and hamlets along roads however I would simply assume that those would be present especially in Rohan, Gondor, and Dale. If I remember Tolkien made mention of men of Rhovanion living between Mirkwood and the misty mountains. In the hobbit trolls had attacked a farm along the road and ate the occupants between bree and rivendel I would assume based on that that the fellowship likely came across villages in their travels that were simply not mentioned. Obviously in Ithilien there were likely none because of Mordors influence there but once one got across the river one would see farms and small villages.
@@themiddle-earthphilosopher7780 or where resources are being produced. Rohans main resource would likely be horses so there are likely a lot of ranches in the flat areas. I am also aware that the movies did not portray the books very well. If I remember correctly the pelannor field was surrounded by Rammas echor which was still under construction when Gandalf had arrived. within the walls there were farms and farmland. I understand the fellow ship tried to avoid other travelers so traveled in places where few would have travelled. Emyn Muil would have been difficult to build settlement in so it would be a great place to hide. Along the andiun river in Rohan likely had orc raids which would be why few people would live there. As one got closer to edoras there would be more and more settlements.
So what happens with the hobbits? I assume they still migrate into Eriador and the kingdom of Arnor, and settle in and around Bree, but are forbidden from moving into the Shire in this timeline.
Well since hobbits are typically peaceful and have no armies to speak of, I dont see arnor having an issue with the migration as long as they dont present a looming threat. And beside, everyone thought little to nothing of them in the first place. They any not have even bothered paying attention. An amusement
If Arnor never fell, I would suspect the return of the King’s Men faction which would lead to another rise of a Numenorian superpower.
There won’t be a Mordor faction though. Arnor would clean Mordor of all evil
The dwarves would probably ally themselves or be enslaved
Without Sauron, the elves would remain and rebuilt the elven kingdoms. However, The elven kingdoms would try to wage war but get massacred by the Numenorian Rhun alliance
Arnor territory would expand the entire West of the Anduin river
Harad and Mordor would be vassal states
Saurons plan was to weaken the Dunedain as much as possible. If Angmar had fallen, Sauron would have sought another base from which to attack Arnor (Dunlendings, Mountain Orcs, Gray Mountain Dragons)
True. But the problem was access. If Angmar had fallen or as I said in the vid, Arnor was never divided up, it would be near impossible to effectively attack Arnor. Orcs are bad, but theyre not organized or disciplined. A large, unified army would hold out against them and more than likely the other allies would recognize them as a threat and just do fall of angmar 2.0
Another thing to consider is that with a large population of men in arnor that it could result in groups of men moving east of the misty mountains and building settlements in the anduin valley leading to either new nations or colonies of arnor. it could also lead to more settlers in Gondor too. larger populations are likely to grow faster and those numbers will have to go somewhere. When I look at a map of middle earth I assume that Gondor is full of small villages, hamlets, homesteads, Inns and the like. I would also assume that Rohan and other states would have been the same as well. Obviously in Ithilien it is less likely to have small settlements due to the threat from Mordor but after you travel West of the Anduin there are likely settlements. I would assume Rohan would be the same. There are likely small villages and walled towns in the West fold and Eastfold up to the Anduin and Limlight. Seeing the size of Rohan's army it would be hard to have that many live in a few cities.
Migration over the misty mountains would be difficult I would think because theyre so treacherous. Not impossible but for large numbers would take awhile at the least. Thats said, then theres considering the other peoples already living east, depending on the time period. Rhovanion, the mirkwood elves, dwarves of erebor, and/or dale. I dont think they would let arnor walk in and annex their lands.
I see what your getting at about the smaller settlements in the west though, and never thought about that. it was pretty desolate by the 3rd age and gondor was more preoccupied with the south and east
@@themiddle-earthphilosopher7780 i think Tolkien never made mention of villages,homestead ,and hamlets along roads however I would simply assume that those would be present especially in Rohan, Gondor, and Dale. If I remember Tolkien made mention of men of Rhovanion living between Mirkwood and the misty mountains. In the hobbit trolls had attacked a farm along the road and ate the occupants between bree and rivendel I would assume based on that that the fellowship likely came across villages in their travels that were simply not mentioned. Obviously in Ithilien there were likely none because of Mordors influence there but once one got across the river one would see farms and small villages.
@@boyar1978 If it anything like the real world, larger population centers would be near trade centers, ports, and cities
@@themiddle-earthphilosopher7780 or where resources are being produced. Rohans main resource would likely be horses so there are likely a lot of ranches in the flat areas. I am also aware that the movies did not portray the books very well. If I remember correctly the pelannor field was surrounded by Rammas echor which was still under construction when Gandalf had arrived. within the walls there were farms and farmland. I understand the fellow ship tried to avoid other travelers so traveled in places where few would have travelled. Emyn Muil would have been difficult to build settlement in so it would be a great place to hide. Along the andiun river in Rohan likely had orc raids which would be why few people would live there. As one got closer to edoras there would be more and more settlements.
@@boyar1978 The elves of beleriand had a similar situation
So what happens with the hobbits? I assume they still migrate into Eriador and the kingdom of Arnor, and settle in and around Bree, but are forbidden from moving into the Shire in this timeline.
Well since hobbits are typically peaceful and have no armies to speak of, I dont see arnor having an issue with the migration as long as they dont present a looming threat. And beside, everyone thought little to nothing of them in the first place. They any not have even bothered paying attention. An amusement