For someone who is so intelligent and must have so many things to say, John is such a good listener and gives people the space to say things themselves and values and shows maximum respect and is so humble is just mind blowing 🤯.
Your comment reminds me of my grandfather. He was the smartest person I've ever known and he was a great listener who didn't feel any need to speak very much, particularly when he was around people that he knew wanted to talk and be heard. I always admired that so much, and found it a little bit frustrating that everyone else was talking so much, and he was talking so little. Every time he talked I thought it was interesting.
Makes sense for each athlete. Both are (or were) in 2 different sports in 2 different situations & weight divisions. 1.GSP - was in a Lighter weight division with a strict weight limit. MMA requires different stand up attributes such as speed in striking being light and fast can be an attribute more so in stand up. Fighting opponents his exact weight. 2. Gordon Ryan- Super Heavyweight with No weight limit, fighting very large opponents in grappling makes sense to be stronger and bigger when you may grapple someone much larger. Power and weight is more useful of an attribute in just pure grappling. No quick striking needed, No quick kicking, striking footwork or defense needed.
The fact that GSP was in a strict weight limit should make it clear. The reason why there is a strickt weight limit, is because the bigger, stronger person would have a clear adventage over the lighter one. For GSP, gaining muscle would mean he jumps into the next weight class, and then he would face people who is naturally stronger and bigger than him. So it makes sense that he doesn't want to increase muscle mass. But that's a different thing than saying muscle mass doesn't help in a fight.
@@danieluhlmann7215 I would say it depends. with added strength a person can lose other attributes. It's not a weight lifting contest. But valid points.
I remember one interview GSP said he lifts weights solely for looks. Bro, even if that were truly his primary reason, the weight lifting and gymnastics he does obviously was a factor behind his success.
@@RajAdityaDas Gymnastics wasn't a staple throughout his entire career though. He only started to incorporate it towards the end of his career. Not when he was in his prime dominating everyone. GSP is a thinker/strategist so of course he's gonna undermind the impact his weightlifting had on his fighting to throw competitors off.
@@lambchop3916 most of his takedowns are just impeccable timing.. he rarely if ever “forced” a hard double leg takedown like his life depended on it, even striking wise he’s just good with timing and exploiting tendencies, maybe im blind but ive yet to see him brute forcing anyone in any fight (yes i was there during his prime)
They should carefully distinguish between Size and Strength. A fighter cloned - all things equal - if one is stronger than the other but equal in other ways, strength will obviously help.
That's a misleading thought experiment though. If you clone someone (s1) from time 1 (t1) and just tweak them positively to make s2, with no time difference (still t1), of course they'll be better off. There's no question. But that's just not realistic. It takes time to prepare both skill and/or strength. Strength training is important, but specificity with regard to intention moreso. Weight classes are a rough approximation of genetic bandwidth. Some people just have a higher bandwidth than others. That's why they're separate. But how should we train within that bandwidth? Specificity with respect to intention.
@jumbo You're missing the point and creating a straw man. I'll elaborate on my previous comment to help out. I never advocated for a martial art and only a martial art. This misses the point I made about specificity, so I'll develop that here. I advocated for "specificity with respect to intention." This means you'd focus on martial arts, but instead of bench press 3 times a week, for example, you do it 1-2 times for maximum strength development (preferably a split between dumbbell and barbell to hit muscle stimulation & stabilizer development), otherwise focusing on developing the kinetic chain of muscles which conduct the desired activity. Let's extend this example of bench pressing with punching. Bench press is a general tool for developing the chest, shoulder, and arm push muscles. But it also teaches you to lock your shoulders, lock your torso, and you're probably not pushing at an explosive rate if you're packing on heavy weight. The result? A nice, strong chest that's like a cannon on a rowboat. All these traits are antithetical to punching. For a good punch, you need to involve your feet all the way up to your fist. That means you have to strengthen everything there, AND their coordination. You need to involve the hips, the torso-- there is so much that you're neglecting with the bench press alone. So in addition to the bench press motion routine I outlined above, one exercise I'd recommend adding is throwing a heavy medicine ball. You can bounce it off a wall, catch it, then swap sides to develop the left & right equally. As an added bonus, this helps acclimate you to stance-changing. That's a nice benefit for any kind of boxing in addition to... ... using the whole torso. Unlike the bench press, using a medicine ball this way develops the SERAPE EFFECT. You NEED to develop this in order to improve ballistic force. Otherwise, you're not using your full potential. This is where the medicine ball succeeds and the bench press fails. The medicine ball can develop your punch's kinetic chain. The bench press is generally nice, but doesn't do this. This is why telling someone "train for strength" isn't enough, and is by itself misleading. "Train for strength with regard to specificity" is far more important for the athlete. Looking at Mayweather, one of the best boxers of all time, we see a man with exceptional skill. Does he bench press, dead lift, squat? Yes. What are his numbers? Unimpressive. Why? They aren't specific to his goal of punching you, and dodging your punch. They just help round out his potential. Again, specificity is the North Star. It gives design & purpose to training.
Gordon Ryan and Danaher have said that the first time GR lost to Pena, GR said to Danaher after the match -"Pena felt about three times stronger than me." Strength matters. Don;t let anyone tell you different.
I think you miss the point: is it more efficient for Gordon Ryan to match his strength with Pena or his skill? It would take years for him to match Pena's strength. However, by improving his skill, it might take only months to beat Pena. Strength matters when you don't have sufficient strength.
@@longnguyen80 that's not true though. you can close a strength gap pretty quickly, catch up completely or surpass him? no way, but to get strong enough to neurtralize their strength advantage isn't that crazy hard especially in jiujitsu
These guys are like top of the line legends in the combat world. Amazing to see such greatness, such great minds and such top tier athletes and masters of their craft share their story, their knowledge.
Wont watch but gordon is obviously on roids so the point is moot since he gets his strength from there without having to invest instead of on technique
Two great athletes with a different approach and training methods. Myself personally when I incorporate weights and some kind of strength training I find that it helps my grappling. Everyone's different..
Keep it up bro! Same here, I went from 115 lbs to 130 lbs (staying at around -15 percent body fat the last 2 years) and straight away my strength, speed endurance, everything was better! Not quite able to slam 250 guys but can do -200 lbers.
If you were 120 lb man. That is extremely small. Thats. Little man football in pee wee. Of course you’re going to grow. I think I was that weight in 6th grade.
I say your skill comes first then your physical abilities(strength, stamina, balance and power). When my lifts went up and my rep ranges went up in the weight room/bodyweight exercises my performance was better in wrestling/striking. So physicality certainly benefits but skill is more important.
I agree with couple of them, being bigger and stronger definitely does help. When i was a white belt, i was 220 lbs bodybuilder, and was able to keep up with purple belts and even some brown belts. I even tapped out some of them. Physical attributes helped me a lot especially in defending attacks
True but using your strength in the beginning can seriously hinder skill development. If you solely rely on strength to finish moves, you miss out on the important details to finish moves. Once you come against someone as big and strong as yourself you will be at a disadvantage. For this reason big and strong guys should strongly emphasize technique, then apply strength and power later.
@@michaelc9161 he was 220 pounds, u seriously dont think he could tap a 150lb bjj nerd without technique? like all combat sports size is everything. Idk why BJJ nerds have this fantasy that they can use bjj to submit a bigger guy -- not happening. ur not gonna get someones back if u cant even deadlift their forearm
@@randallrobertson7190 you did not tap a black belt, and absolutely a 150 pound bjj nerd could submit somebody that’s 225….you guys have never rolled with anybody worth a damn
@@charlesgauldin8010 also look dude. It's literally been stated by the Gracies. For every 10 pounds of muscle you'd better have A belt level on the guy you're fighting. 10 lbs = A belt level. BJJ isn't bs. It's a great fighting art. One of many. Just don't drink the coolaid too much. Beyond A certain age 10 years too old or too young is A belt level of skill to overcome that as well.
I would bet these two are one of the strongest if not the strongest competitor in each of their weight classes in terms of grappling. So I would say that strength plays a huge role in importance of fighting.
Yes it does. In reality they downplay the overall effects. If every single movment can be measured with a resistance device, there is no doubt the top guys would check a lot more boxes than their competition. Especially in jujitsu.
Yeah. This is like hot actress saying that looks don’t count. For MMA, being strong is required. Once you’re already strong focusing your efforts I’m becoming even stronger is not an efficient use of time and I think that’s their point, they’re just not putting a lot of emphasis on the fact that they’re already strong.
@@JoeIsOut2lunch yeah, the training a novice/young athlete should go through is very different from the one the yields the best effect at a elite level of competition. Many people forget about this and end up getting injured or not seeing the best return possible.
A lot of people downplay strength to make people who don’t have it feel better. The way I see it is they should encourage the weaker people to get strong.
Basic day to day if you are stronger then more than likely you will beat anyone weaker. Talking street fights. In a ring with a set time then obviously efficiency and optimal performance per the time set. If someone in the street attacks you and you are stronger than them. You should win. This goes for every creature from ants to elephants
A lot of athletes (like GSP here) seem to downplay the importance of bodybuilding type movements, and mention that they did those types of exercises for a time in the past before moving on to other types of training. But strength and muscle size tend to be very persistent adaptations, so I think these athletes may be underestimating the impact those early muscle gains continued to have on the rest of their careers. As far as whether strength or skill is more important in an MMA fight, I feel like that question sort of answers itself in a sport that has weight classes...
@@daxisperry7644 having lots of unnecessary muscle mass will make you exhaust quicker and slow your movement speed , gas tank and speed being absolutely crucial if you want to find success in a stand up art. Bob sapp didn’t fight the sportiest competition and was on roids , all due respect.
@@steadyeddy6184 Francis Ngannou, Derrick Lewis, Shane Carwin, young JDS, Ubereem, some of the most eye wateringly powerful strikers in MMA have been absolutely bricked up.
I feel like one of the important factors that was implicit here but not properly discussed is weight classes. If you didn’t have to adhere to them, would your time be better spent increasing skill or attributes? I feel attribute diminishing returns is more concrete when having to adhere to weight classes
Danaher looking like a zen master watching children argue about enlightenment. He doesn't want to discourage them, but also wants to strangle everyone in the room.
At 3:19 Lex was like : Oh that's interesting, so you're telling me you've been working for strength endurance and that's how you blew up suddenly huh ?
Daniher's a genius... love that "then you're getting diminishing returns on your training investment" so profound - love how he explains things. He's got a great philisophical approach and his command of the English language if fucking brilliant (and a bit better than mine).
@@Arminsaf2 I am not attacking it for it if someone started doing testing in bjj the instruments would explode, but Daniher is pretending proper pharmacology isn't one of the most important parts of proper training for pro athletes.
Lex amazing job you doing! After Joe my second fav. podcast. Just when you asking questions don’t put hand on your face and mouth 😉 always something to improve :)
GSP is right with that point at the end there. it came off weird but he's right, if you like the way you look in the mirror it can breed confidence. if you look like you should be strong, you can pull some subconscious confidence from that
Strength only doesn’t matter because of the weight class divisions. If it was a free for all, with no weight classes, strength would absolutely matter by far. You can’t jiu-jitsu your way out of fighting a extremely strong man with good mobility
You can jiu jitsu your way out if you are significantly better than your opponent.Minowa at 5ft8 beat Hong man choi who is 7ft2 400lbs.Royce at 170lb beat a 600lb akebono who is one of the best sumo wrestlers and Dan severn a 280lb ncaa d1 wrestler
@@Mma-ig5ew back when those big guys had next to no skill. Yea you might be able todo that. But give them just basic understanding of the skill and the whole dynamic changes. Yea you can submit someone 100lbs more then you if they don't even know what you are doing, still going to be hard todo, but if they know how to stop what you are doing be it skull or strength then you are fucked.
@@0nemoreonelove if you think an ncaa wrestler knows nothing you have no combat background.Zulu is a purple belt who is a fucking giant got tapped out by rickson.Im saying big and skilled can still lose to a smaller guy with more skills.
@@0nemoreonelove if you think an ncaa wrestler knows nothing you have no combat background.Zulu is a purple belt who is a fucking giant got tapped out by rickson.Im saying big and skilled can still lose to a smaller guy with more skills.
How the conversation switched from, an analytical discussion about the most efficient way to train in combat sports, to "WHO WOULD WIN A FIGHT BETWEEN A BEAR AND A GORILLA?" so smoothly is beyond me.
Why don't you periodize your training, strength train rather than training for hypertrophy? Train speed, quickness and agility, explosiveness. Isometric holds, etc?Strength training is incremental just like skill development and should continue just like other attributes training. I mean why not?
Two of the best combat athletes - GSP and Gordon , and the best combat coach - Danaher, and their benchmark of combat athlete greatness is Fedor. Greatness recognises greatness.
I learned jiu jitsu up to black belt not lifting any weights from white to black. I was never really strong. Good cardio, good technique. Now at black belt, I'm lifting weights and holy smokes it makes a huge difference. Huge. Size and strength stack the odds in your favor no question about it.
I was jacked and started bjj, got laughed at by the Brazilians that I was too big, weights don't work, technique is the best etc. so stopped lifting completely for years, got small, always did ok in bjj but I was always fighting people bigger and stronger than me - someone I once was! Now at brown for three years, I added back weights and I'm nearly as strong as I was before I started bjj all those years ago and man does it make a difference! I can just pin almost any person now no matter how big and smother, smash pass, break people down in guard easily, grab grips and people never, ever break them. Could only dream of that when I was smaller and weaker.
So I think it's important to ask the question in general or when there are weight classes involved. The entire point of weight classes is to much more closely equalize athletic ability. So if I'm stepping in at 170 and the other guy is at 170 are you asking would you rather be more skilled or have the maybe 5-10% more strength advantage that could exist between two fit 170 pound men. If you're into fitness that strength variation is diminishing returns because at some point I would just move out of 170 if I bulked up too much not to mention the messing up the balance of agility and stamina with that increased muscle, so 170 at a given height and body fat sort of is what it is. Where as increases in skill are almost unlimited. Now ask it again, if you're 170, would you rather fight a skilled 170 lb opponent or a 300 lb NFL lineman who's pushing a near 700 lb bench press. Because the strength difference there is going to drastically limit what techniques might actually work. Push the example out even further, would you want to fight a 2,000 lb grizzly bear? The point I'm making is that skill only gets you so far, at some point strength is so out of alignment that you cannot compete, this is often the case between women and men and one of the main reasons men should not fight women.
Strength training and boxing are very hard to balance as your muscle endurance and explosiveness are compromised for much longer, and you can lose some progress. It can be done but I think it makes more sense for an amature grappler to lift than an amateur striker.
I don't know I mean... it's hard to contradict a high level athlete like that but in my limited athletic experience, it's always felt to me that no matter what sport I was doing, only doing the sport itself didn't develop all the strength I needed. That if at some point I added some weight lifting in my routine to focus on some of the muscles that are heavily solicited by the sport, I would feel the difference. I've experienced that very clearly for tennis and rock climbing. I would stagnate, then start hitting the gym and after 5-6 weeks would start seeing real results, not so much in my strength as measured in the gym, but in my ability to do some movements rights. For example just playing tennis wouldn't strenghten my grip enough. Yes ideally I'd hit the ball in the middle of the racket if I had perfect technique and timng every time. But sometimes I hit it a little bit offset, and if it's coming hard, the racket would turn a bit in my hand. After workin a bit on my arms and forearms, my control very clearly improved.
Size and natural strength + durability + athleticism are the best factors.. I train BJJ at 165lb and have sparred with people who have to state in wrestling and competed in judo tournaments, BJJ tournaments, etc… if they are smaller than me they can’t do shit to me .. because of my attributes I’ve subbed out people that are 240+ … because yes they were bigger than me, but I was strong and durable enough to stay alive while they gassed and was eventually able to get the finish. If you truly think Skill > Strength then go have Gordon Ryan grapple a silver back and let me know how that goes… he won’t last 45 seconds. Strength in scenario doesn’t just mean you can curl and bench a lot… strength in talking about you’re conditioned & athletic.
What gordon said about weights is perfect exactly how i train weights, hus training more for muscle endurance/ hypertrophy ...medium weight high reps to faliure, id love to know if he does rest pause sets which i think translate great for grappling
I love how MOST guys can, at any time, get sidetracked from any conversation to talk about how impressive animals are physically. There's something almost innate where we are just in awe of the physical prowess of the animal kingdom. You can be a gym rat, book nerd, gamer, martial arts practitioner, biologist, teacher... it doesn't matter. It's a common topic that we love to engage in or listen to. It's not even what I clicked on the video for, yet I'm here for it
I agree with Gordon over GSP on this. The fact of the matter is, Gsp WAS lifting/strength training during his prime even if he believes he doesn't need it anymore. One could even argue that GSP was so good because he was much stronger and in better condition than his opponents. Just look at his old fights, most of them was him just being more explosive and much stronger than his opponents. The times where his strength was matched (Hendricks) he struggled.
After you can bench, squat and deadlift more than 150kg strength no longer matters in combat sport. After that it's how explosive you are, how high you can jump and how quick you can burst sprint.
you can make massive strenght gains without massive muscle gains. you want to increase your strenght while not increasing your mass. that's where the power to work efficiency can be measured. remember having huge muscles like a muscle car means you will burn much more as well as require much more fuel to complete the same amount of work. More weight in general means more energy will be expended.
Strength and skill is equally important, both are enablers to the end product which is winning. Some misconception about skillset training is that it is like a legendary training, you are still using your limbs to perform that guillotine, if you are able to customize your strength training to the required muscles to perform that guillotine such as core muscle rotator cuff trapezoid training you will still be able to improve at a quick level. A advanced customized strength training will always help and diminishing returns in this case will not exist..i am not discounting the fact of performing the guillotine more times will train your muscle memory to find out which way will be better for you and the hiccups that could occur.. other than that both are important in short use your brain
in combat sports, skill is useless without strenght. Without a basic level of strength your skill wont have any effect and the stronger you are the easier it will be for you to be effective with any technique you learn- the only exception being the high kick, which also requires a decent amout of flexibility.
Without skill, strength is useless, which was proven in ufc 1 when the smallest guy won because of technique. Weight classes were only even added when they evened out the skill playing field. The answer is simple. Do both, Period. Or your an idiot, because both are vital.
@@angelocarantino4803 purely anectodal- one guy isnt proof of anything. Put him against top muay thai fighter see what happens. When comparing martial arts all we can say is "that guy can beat that guy", because styles do not exist in the vaccum. They are all praticedd by flesh and blood human beings. Royce proved he was a good fighter thats all. BTW im black belt with 15 year of experience. Im also a lighteatherweight. I know EXACTLY how to use tecnique to overcome strength, i use it everyday. My own experience contradicts my argument and yet i still say it because its the truth. Thats called integrity which is something a keyboard warrior who has never steped on that mats will never know.
there is a reason there are weight classes - anybody that thinks size or strength doesn't matter hasn't had enough actual fights - sparring or rolling at the gym means nothing because the bigger guy is rarely using his entire strength - just like when you roll with somebody smaller or weaker than you, generally you will match their strength and try to use technique, but an actual fight is another story
This is correct. If two people have equal technique but one is stronger the stronger has the advantage. Being able to impose more force on top of good technique will always be an advantage. I wrestled most of my life and there were guys I wrestled with that were technically much better than I was but I’m also extremely strong and that allowed me to negate most of not all their advantage and force them where I wanted to be. At the very top of competition it’s the margins that matter so if you can be even one or two percent better that can be a difference maker. Athletes are best served to continue to develop all qualities to be most effective in their given sport.
You can't really develop great skill without getting stronger automatically. Each time you roll you stimulate your body to get stronger. Each time you hit the bag you get a little stronger.
Sort of, without resistance your strength is stagnant and at some point your endurance will be stagnant. That's why adding some form of resistance or weight training is important
@8:56 interesting quote that brings the rivalry of Kyle Snyder and sadulaev to mind. I always felt like Kyle puts too much into wanting to out muscle the Russian
Size does matter still that’s why there is different weight classes. Technic still matters but so does size and strength. They do have some good points here tho with Diminishing returns. A required weight class really helps with these issues but some still drop 20pounds or more before fight and gain it right back
I know, this is the first vid I've seen of his. the guests he has are legendary and he just seems so out of place. And the animal analogy was terribly delivered wtf
If you find a good instructor that teaches you how to get strong without losing mobility or injuring yourself its not up for debate, being stronger and more explosive will improve your game. Competent, intelligent and experienced strength coaches are few and far between and lifting weights is one of the few methods of training/art forms that everybody thinks they know how to do.
You need both. But if you can push the pace faster than your opponent, if you can do that longer while being stronger it's a massive advantage. So much so most fighters in MMA history have used PEDs to gain that advantage at great costs to life and career.
U need a certain baseline level of strength, then skill will be the main focus to get better. Benching more after a certain point doesn't mean u can beat other trained fighters that are more skilled, but they can't bench as much as u.
I think that it is important to note that in most combat sports there are weight classes. I believe that more strength is almost always better but more strength usually means more muscule mass and more muscule mass means more weight. This can put you in a higher weight class. So it is important to know at what point adding more muscule wont help you. This is the point of diminishing returns. I think this depends on the combat sport. For example, I think that wrestlers need more muscule mass than boxers.
It is enough to look at how Alexander Karelin trained to stop asking questions whether physical strength matters. He would break any MMA fighter with no problem at all.
@@isaacalzate8262 Who is the heavyweight champion now? Francis Ngannou . Does he have good wrestling or punching technique? No. He boxed like a drunk octopus and weak at wrestling. Francis is champion because he is physically the strongest (but I repeat that Karelin was much stronger physically) . Moreover, greco wrestling is the strongest background for MMA, Karelin in his prime would break anyone. Karelin could suplex even an elephant.
11:19 John Danaher (wearing a Under Armour rash guard with Adidas pants) meanwhile, Gordon Ryan (sporting an Ariat top, cowboy hat, and large belt buckle) 😉
Strength can override technique and vice versa also conditioning is supplemental to whatever the demand or sport is and it’s amazing how much ignorance still exists on the subject leaving a lot of vulnerability to shady or naive so called strength and conditioning coaches who can exploit many out of their money 💰
great insight as I have struggled with bjj because of my previous powerlifting and bodybuilding. John Danaher said it best, at the point of diminishing return, make a choice. The other issue in the real world is that as we age (I'm 60 yrs old now) the appearance of being menacing can keep you out of a lot of otherwise dangerous situations. A friend of mine who is my age and also lifts and does bjj agreed and decided that for guys our age, we need to look like we could cause a young gun some problems. Now I realize this means nothing on the mat, but in life it does help as most thugs think like animals and size matters. But I gas pretty quickly on the mat, so I have to really focus on remaining calm and NOT go to my strength to get me out of bad situations as it is very easy sometimes to break locks or grips with raw power.
Just wanna give a little take on the animal thing. You'd be surprised tbh a tiger has much greater range of motion and is quicker. But lions have much much better cardio. A tiger could definitely kill a lion but the longer both cats fight the more it favours the lion. And pretty much in my life aswell as research i have seen 1 tiger vs lion video a real one. It wasn't good tbh people forced them to fight in a pit. But that's what happened.
the tiger is built & works like an assassin. hides in the forests, stalks , and pounces. the lion lives in the open African savannah , so he’s more muscular, and isn’t as agile, because he doesn’t stalk and hide in bushes.
The strength itself is a very lose term. What are you determining as strength? How much you can lift, how strong is your explosive power, etc, etc. I think it's strength specific to the activity which is more important.
I wish they could have brought up the topic of muscle mass as leverage or protection. I really want to know whether a really big biceps allows for certain submissions, like the guillotine to provide a different sort of leverage or pressure point. Likewise, can someone have thick enough neck musculature to make them considerably harder to choke out.
Skill in anything is always #1. But being strong and resilient is always #2. And lots of guys have won just by being stronger. That's the reason martial arts like jiu-jitsu were invented.
Danaher expressed quite an important idea about diminishing returns of incremental investments of time and resource into strengh training/ Actually it`s a universal law of non-linearity that has, for instance implications in drug or supplement taking in sports. it`s beneficial to rise your D-vitamin level from 20 to 70 (50 units), but the next 50 units increase from 70 to 120 would be less beneficial for your health and body. almost everything around us works in accordance with this non-linearity law
No one spoke to Georges' point about him perceiving zero or negative effects from body building training. If you grow the muscles that are not gonna be useful for your fighting style (e.g. a boxer grows large slow twitching biceps muscles), that extra weight will eat your speed and energy. Flexors may end up slowing down the extensors and so on.
Ngannou was so physically strong that Gane just couldn't crank his leg lol. As if jujitsu doesn't work on such a physically strong guy. Ngannou has tree trunks for legs.
@@omegaboostZ Well yeah - JiuJitsu does obviously not work on someone who is a lot stronger than you (at least if he has some kind of a clue what he is doing).
You dont do heavy weights because they'll 'tear' the muscle.....but you do high reps to 'really break down the fibers' ?.......huh? Heavy weights are highly effective in increasing stress and don't cause as much inflammation and soreness as high rep work which would get in the way of training BJJ.
Overwhelming strength can be unstoppable no matter how much skill Like no matter how good a WW gets francis would win but nobody gets THAT strong so normally overwhelming skill would win in the same weightclass
Tigers are not bigger than horses dude the biggest horses weight over 2500lbs, the world record liger (which are much bigger than tigers) weighs just over 900lbs, it's not even close.
@@haitianxu Siberian tigers are 10 feet long which is much bigger than most horses. They may not weigh as much, but when you see one up close you'll realize how fucking huge they are.
John danaher mentioned about strength beyond some point is not useful. Like lifting 100lbs and 200lbs doesn't make much difference in grappling. So if i am 170 cm height and 75kg weight what would be ideal max weight i should lift in- 1)squat 2)dead lift 3)bench Like 100kg would do?? To be strong enough to reach my optimum level in fighting. Can anyone help 🙏??
If I saw these four guys separately, I would not think they were going to the same place.
W
LOL
Gold! LOL dude
Best comment I’ve read on TH-cam in a long time haha
On the contrary, four BJJ black belts walked in to a bar...
I could listen to GSP all day the way he says“therapeutic” cracks me up😂
its like a fcking extinct dinosaur lol
Are you in-talks-icated??
so you are making fun of his accent?
@@Greenman422 after all these years yes. if he would put 1% of his effort in talking from his training he could get the accent out. Its cute tho
@@stokkejanraggio9091 in a sport where 1% might be the difference between victory and defeat im glad he focused on the fighting
John Danaher is a masterclass in how to think rationally and communicate effectively.
Whatever he says, I'm listening.
That’s money.
He went to philosophical univesity
What a Ph.D in philosophy gets you
@JD's Arcade rofl
@@katokianimation Firas also finished a degree in philosophy, correct?
For someone who is so intelligent and must have so many things to say, John is such a good listener and gives people the space to say things themselves and values and shows maximum respect and is so humble is just mind blowing 🤯.
he is controlling your mind rn .
I wouldn't be surprised if his IQ was between 110-135. He's just very polished and educated/knowledgeable.
Your comment reminds me of my grandfather. He was the smartest person I've ever known and he was a great listener who didn't feel any need to speak very much, particularly when he was around people that he knew wanted to talk and be heard. I always admired that so much, and found it a little bit frustrating that everyone else was talking so much, and he was talking so little. Every time he talked I thought it was interesting.
To speak you are only repeating what you know. When you listen, you may learn something new. Intelligent people know to keep quiet and listen.
he acts like he is a jedi lol yet fighters he train are full of steroids!! and he's real creepy
Makes sense for each athlete. Both are (or were) in 2 different sports in 2 different situations & weight divisions.
1.GSP - was in a Lighter weight division with a strict weight limit. MMA requires different stand up attributes such as speed in striking being light and fast can be an attribute more so in stand up. Fighting opponents his exact weight.
2. Gordon Ryan- Super Heavyweight with No weight limit, fighting very large opponents in grappling makes sense to be stronger and bigger when you may grapple someone much larger. Power and weight is more useful of an attribute in just pure grappling. No quick striking needed, No quick kicking, striking footwork or defense needed.
The fact that GSP was in a strict weight limit should make it clear. The reason why there is a strickt weight limit, is because the bigger, stronger person would have a clear adventage over the lighter one.
For GSP, gaining muscle would mean he jumps into the next weight class, and then he would face people who is naturally stronger and bigger than him. So it makes sense that he doesn't want to increase muscle mass. But that's a different thing than saying muscle mass doesn't help in a fight.
Nailed it. But even a stronger GSP would be a better fighter than a weaker GSP
@@danieluhlmann7215 I would say it depends. with added strength a person can lose other attributes. It's not a weight lifting contest. But valid points.
PERFECT summation right there ---
All things being equal, stronger is better. But in real life, all things are rarely equal.
This is probably the greatest martial arts roundtable group there will ever be.
It's missing tito ortiz
U would need to add the gracies
Don't be silly lol, they are all legends, but it can't be the greatest martial arts roundtable without a muay thai nor boxing legend.
@@JesusRodriguez-sh3pj exactly we needed a hyena story
It’s missing Mike Tyson
Lex, what a set of great guests you have here. Keep up the great work man.
Lex sounds high as shit and completely uninterested lol
No kidding, I had to double check the title. Good stuff.
GSP tells everything like it's a story, and I love it.
Jon D. needs a podcast. That dude is next level genius and fun to listen to.
I want to hear him commentate matches. I'd have a much better understanding of what I'm watching lol
"I was wondering, would there ever be a boy born who could swim faster than a shark." -Lex
Wise question
Gareth Keenan investigates 😂
There is His name is Steven adams
Ah…no…
And that’s crufts.
I remember one interview GSP said he lifts weights solely for looks. Bro, even if that were truly his primary reason, the weight lifting and gymnastics he does obviously was a factor behind his success.
exactky. if he couldn’t bench 135 or deadlift a couple plates, he wouldn’t have been able to be as effective as he was in wrestling.
He did weightlifting for looks. Gymnastics he did to get a different source/type of coordinated full body strength.
@@RajAdityaDas Gymnastics wasn't a staple throughout his entire career though. He only started to incorporate it towards the end of his career. Not when he was in his prime dominating everyone. GSP is a thinker/strategist so of course he's gonna undermind the impact his weightlifting had on his fighting to throw competitors off.
@@lambchop3916 most of his takedowns are just impeccable timing.. he rarely if ever “forced” a hard double leg takedown like his life depended on it, even striking wise he’s just good with timing and exploiting tendencies, maybe im blind but ive yet to see him brute forcing anyone in any fight (yes i was there during his prime)
@@HbVki All technique is just the most effective application of your strength. Being stronger will make your best technique better
They should carefully distinguish between Size and Strength.
A fighter cloned - all things equal - if one is stronger than the other but equal in other ways, strength will obviously help.
Exactly, they are thinking through the weight class lens, in a real world fight with no weight boundaries, strength matters more.
That's a misleading thought experiment though. If you clone someone (s1) from time 1 (t1) and just tweak them positively to make s2, with no time difference (still t1), of course they'll be better off. There's no question.
But that's just not realistic. It takes time to prepare both skill and/or strength. Strength training is important, but specificity with regard to intention moreso.
Weight classes are a rough approximation of genetic bandwidth. Some people just have a higher bandwidth than others. That's why they're separate. But how should we train within that bandwidth? Specificity with respect to intention.
@@seanmcgrady8688 Thanks for the thought-provoking comment, friend. Well-reasoned and well-said.
@@Undoing88 Blessed are those with kindness on the internet. Take care, pilgrim.
@jumbo You're missing the point and creating a straw man. I'll elaborate on my previous comment to help out.
I never advocated for a martial art and only a martial art. This misses the point I made about specificity, so I'll develop that here.
I advocated for "specificity with respect to intention." This means you'd focus on martial arts, but instead of bench press 3 times a week, for example, you do it 1-2 times for maximum strength development (preferably a split between dumbbell and barbell to hit muscle stimulation & stabilizer development), otherwise focusing on developing the kinetic chain of muscles which conduct the desired activity.
Let's extend this example of bench pressing with punching.
Bench press is a general tool for developing the chest, shoulder, and arm push muscles. But it also teaches you to lock your shoulders, lock your torso, and you're probably not pushing at an explosive rate if you're packing on heavy weight. The result? A nice, strong chest that's like a cannon on a rowboat.
All these traits are antithetical to punching. For a good punch, you need to involve your feet all the way up to your fist. That means you have to strengthen everything there, AND their coordination. You need to involve the hips, the torso-- there is so much that you're neglecting with the bench press alone.
So in addition to the bench press motion routine I outlined above, one exercise I'd recommend adding is throwing a heavy medicine ball. You can bounce it off a wall, catch it, then swap sides to develop the left & right equally. As an added bonus, this helps acclimate you to stance-changing. That's a nice benefit for any kind of boxing in addition to...
... using the whole torso. Unlike the bench press, using a medicine ball this way develops the SERAPE EFFECT. You NEED to develop this in order to improve ballistic force. Otherwise, you're not using your full potential.
This is where the medicine ball succeeds and the bench press fails. The medicine ball can develop your punch's kinetic chain. The bench press is generally nice, but doesn't do this. This is why telling someone "train for strength" isn't enough, and is by itself misleading. "Train for strength with regard to specificity" is far more important for the athlete.
Looking at Mayweather, one of the best boxers of all time, we see a man with exceptional skill. Does he bench press, dead lift, squat? Yes. What are his numbers? Unimpressive. Why? They aren't specific to his goal of punching you, and dodging your punch. They just help round out his potential.
Again, specificity is the North Star. It gives design & purpose to training.
Gordon Ryan and Danaher have said that the first time GR lost to Pena, GR said to Danaher after the match -"Pena felt about three times stronger than me." Strength matters. Don;t let anyone tell you different.
I think you miss the point: is it more efficient for Gordon Ryan to match his strength with Pena or his skill? It would take years for him to match Pena's strength. However, by improving his skill, it might take only months to beat Pena.
Strength matters when you don't have sufficient strength.
@@longnguyen80 that's not true though. you can close a strength gap pretty quickly, catch up completely or surpass him? no way, but to get strong enough to neurtralize their strength advantage isn't that crazy hard especially in jiujitsu
@@BroodYouthI agree, plus GR has already admitted to taking steroids. They all do in that sport cuz it’s not illegal.
These guys are like top of the line legends in the combat world. Amazing to see such greatness, such great minds and such top tier athletes and masters of their craft share their story, their knowledge.
Amazing how Gordon, with his personality, is so humble around danaher and took to all his ideas.
Dude is arrogant as fuck lmao what are you talking about, Willis?
Wont watch but gordon is obviously on roids so the point is moot since he gets his strength from there without having to invest instead of on technique
@@jcjc5702 he’s one of the most technical fighters of all time?
Two great athletes with a different approach and training methods. Myself personally when I incorporate weights and some kind of strength training I find that it helps my grappling. Everyone's different..
No bro your right, strength training is HUGE in grappling.
Keep it up bro! Same here, I went from 115 lbs to 130 lbs (staying at around -15 percent body fat the last 2 years) and straight away my strength, speed endurance, everything was better! Not quite able to slam 250 guys but can do -200 lbers.
@jumbo only on boxing
If you were 120 lb man. That is extremely small. Thats. Little man football in pee wee.
Of course you’re going to grow. I think I was that weight in 6th grade.
But good job you guys. But no man is at maximum capacity at 120lbs. That’s a slender adult women size
I say your skill comes first then your physical abilities(strength, stamina, balance and power). When my lifts went up and my rep ranges went up in the weight room/bodyweight exercises my performance was better in wrestling/striking. So physicality certainly benefits but skill is more important.
I agree with couple of them, being bigger and stronger definitely does help. When i was a white belt, i was 220 lbs bodybuilder, and was able to keep up with purple belts and even some brown belts. I even tapped out some of them. Physical attributes helped me a lot especially in defending attacks
True but using your strength in the beginning can seriously hinder skill development. If you solely rely on strength to finish moves, you miss out on the important details to finish moves. Once you come against someone as big and strong as yourself you will be at a disadvantage. For this reason big and strong guys should strongly emphasize technique, then apply strength and power later.
If you were a white belt and could tap a purple you’re either a prodigy or those upper belts were promoted prematurely
@@michaelc9161 he was 220 pounds, u seriously dont think he could tap a 150lb bjj nerd without technique?
like all combat sports size is everything. Idk why BJJ nerds have this fantasy that they can use bjj to submit a bigger guy -- not happening. ur not gonna get someones back if u cant even deadlift their forearm
@@randallrobertson7190 you did not tap a black belt, and absolutely a 150 pound bjj nerd could submit somebody that’s 225….you guys have never rolled with anybody worth a damn
@@charlesgauldin8010 also look dude. It's literally been stated by the Gracies. For every 10 pounds of muscle you'd better have A belt level on the guy you're fighting. 10 lbs = A belt level. BJJ isn't bs. It's a great fighting art. One of many. Just don't drink the coolaid too much. Beyond A certain age 10 years too old or too young is A belt level of skill to overcome that as well.
I would bet these two are one of the strongest if not the strongest competitor in each of their weight classes in terms of grappling. So I would say that strength plays a huge role in importance of fighting.
Yes it does. In reality they downplay the overall effects. If every single movment can be measured with a resistance device, there is no doubt the top guys would check a lot more boxes than their competition. Especially in jujitsu.
Yeah. This is like hot actress saying that looks don’t count. For MMA, being strong is required. Once you’re already strong focusing your efforts I’m becoming even stronger is not an efficient use of time and I think that’s their point, they’re just not putting a lot of emphasis on the fact that they’re already strong.
Ryan is juiced up tho. Which means he needs it bc he lacks confidence
@@JoeIsOut2lunch yeah, the training a novice/young athlete should go through is very different from the one the yields the best effect at a elite level of competition. Many people forget about this and end up getting injured or not seeing the best return possible.
A lot of people downplay strength to make people who don’t have it feel better. The way I see it is they should encourage the weaker people to get strong.
Strength 100% helps. There are stronger guys out there with decent technique that can beat weaker guys with slightly better technique.
Often true, well put.
100%, there is a reason there are weight classes - anybody that thinks size doesn't matter hasn't had any actual fights
Basic day to day if you are stronger then more than likely you will beat anyone weaker. Talking street fights. In a ring with a set time then obviously efficiency and optimal performance per the time set.
If someone in the street attacks you and you are stronger than them. You should win. This goes for every creature from ants to elephants
Mmm.. I guess but if the smaller guy is much quicker n more agile and endurance the big guy is fucked
@@wilsonroofer that’s not true brother
A lot of athletes (like GSP here) seem to downplay the importance of bodybuilding type movements, and mention that they did those types of exercises for a time in the past before moving on to other types of training. But strength and muscle size tend to be very persistent adaptations, so I think these athletes may be underestimating the impact those early muscle gains continued to have on the rest of their careers. As far as whether strength or skill is more important in an MMA fight, I feel like that question sort of answers itself in a sport that has weight classes...
Couldn't have said it better myself.
It's good for grappling but terrible for striking.
@@IanO3 how? Bob Sapp destroyed people
@@daxisperry7644 having lots of unnecessary muscle mass will make you exhaust quicker and slow your movement speed , gas tank and speed being absolutely crucial if you want to find success in a stand up art. Bob sapp didn’t fight the sportiest competition and was on roids , all due respect.
@@steadyeddy6184 Francis Ngannou, Derrick Lewis, Shane Carwin, young JDS, Ubereem, some of the most eye wateringly powerful strikers in MMA have been absolutely bricked up.
I feel like one of the important factors that was implicit here but not properly discussed is weight classes. If you didn’t have to adhere to them, would your time be better spent increasing skill or attributes? I feel attribute diminishing returns is more concrete when having to adhere to weight classes
Danaher looking like a zen master watching children argue about enlightenment. He doesn't want to discourage them, but also wants to strangle everyone in the room.
When John Daner talks I think everyone is listening! This guy is brilliant!
All of this has been said pretty simply before: “if technic is matched, skill for skill, the stronger man will win.”
Can be said the other way round
@@ct847 dang that's actually a good observation brother
@@darklord220 dang
@@fastemil123 yeah i said dang what of it
@@darklord220 you’re dang right
They used to have a TV show called animal face off and had different animals "fight". It was similar to the deadliest warrior show. Both were badass
At 3:19 Lex was like :
Oh that's interesting, so you're telling me you've been working for strength endurance and that's how you blew up suddenly huh ?
In a word… steroids
Daniher's a genius... love that "then you're getting diminishing returns on your training investment" so profound - love how he explains things. He's got a great philisophical approach and his command of the English language if fucking brilliant (and a bit better than mine).
He has got a PhD in philosophy and was a professor before becoming a disciple of Renzo Gracie
Yee 'diminishing returns' that's why Gordon Ryan is juiced to the gills, he just dose it because he loves the taste of that tranboloni.
@@Arminsaf2 I am not attacking it for it if someone started doing testing in bjj the instruments would explode, but Daniher is pretending proper pharmacology isn't one of the most important parts of proper training for pro athletes.
Skill is more important but skill and strength together beats skill alone
Lex was all the over the place here.
Lex amazing job you doing! After Joe my second fav. podcast. Just when you asking questions don’t put hand on your face and mouth 😉 always something to improve :)
GSP is right with that point at the end there. it came off weird but he's right, if you like the way you look in the mirror it can breed confidence. if you look like you should be strong, you can pull some subconscious confidence from that
Strength only doesn’t matter because of the weight class divisions. If it was a free for all, with no weight classes, strength would absolutely matter by far. You can’t jiu-jitsu your way out of fighting a extremely strong man with good mobility
You can jiu jitsu your way out if you are significantly better than your opponent.Minowa at 5ft8 beat Hong man choi who is 7ft2 400lbs.Royce at 170lb beat a 600lb akebono who is one of the best sumo wrestlers and Dan severn a 280lb ncaa d1 wrestler
@@Mma-ig5ew back when those big guys had next to no skill. Yea you might be able todo that. But give them just basic understanding of the skill and the whole dynamic changes. Yea you can submit someone 100lbs more then you if they don't even know what you are doing, still going to be hard todo, but if they know how to stop what you are doing be it skull or strength then you are fucked.
@@0nemoreonelove if you think an ncaa wrestler knows nothing you have no combat background.Zulu is a purple belt who is a fucking giant got tapped out by rickson.Im saying big and skilled can still lose to a smaller guy with more skills.
@@0nemoreonelove if you think an ncaa wrestler knows nothing you have no combat background.Zulu is a purple belt who is a fucking giant got tapped out by rickson.Im saying big and skilled can still lose to a smaller guy with more skills.
You clearly have never heard of Royce Gracie lol
How the conversation switched from, an analytical discussion about the most efficient way to train in combat sports, to "WHO WOULD WIN A FIGHT BETWEEN A BEAR AND A GORILLA?" so smoothly is beyond me.
Why don't you periodize your training, strength train rather than training for hypertrophy? Train speed, quickness and agility, explosiveness. Isometric holds, etc?Strength training is incremental just like skill development and should continue just like other attributes training. I mean why not?
Two of the best combat athletes - GSP and Gordon , and the best combat coach - Danaher, and their benchmark of combat athlete greatness is Fedor. Greatness recognises greatness.
I learned jiu jitsu up to black belt not lifting any weights from white to black. I was never really strong. Good cardio, good technique. Now at black belt, I'm lifting weights and holy smokes it makes a huge difference. Huge. Size and strength stack the odds in your favor no question about it.
I was jacked and started bjj, got laughed at by the Brazilians that I was too big, weights don't work, technique is the best etc. so stopped lifting completely for years, got small, always did ok in bjj but I was always fighting people bigger and stronger than me - someone I once was! Now at brown for three years, I added back weights and I'm nearly as strong as I was before I started bjj all those years ago and man does it make a difference! I can just pin almost any person now no matter how big and smother, smash pass, break people down in guard easily, grab grips and people never, ever break them. Could only dream of that when I was smaller and weaker.
So I think it's important to ask the question in general or when there are weight classes involved. The entire point of weight classes is to much more closely equalize athletic ability. So if I'm stepping in at 170 and the other guy is at 170 are you asking would you rather be more skilled or have the maybe 5-10% more strength advantage that could exist between two fit 170 pound men. If you're into fitness that strength variation is diminishing returns because at some point I would just move out of 170 if I bulked up too much not to mention the messing up the balance of agility and stamina with that increased muscle, so 170 at a given height and body fat sort of is what it is. Where as increases in skill are almost unlimited.
Now ask it again, if you're 170, would you rather fight a skilled 170 lb opponent or a 300 lb NFL lineman who's pushing a near 700 lb bench press. Because the strength difference there is going to drastically limit what techniques might actually work. Push the example out even further, would you want to fight a 2,000 lb grizzly bear? The point I'm making is that skill only gets you so far, at some point strength is so out of alignment that you cannot compete, this is often the case between women and men and one of the main reasons men should not fight women.
Strength training and boxing are very hard to balance as your muscle endurance and explosiveness are compromised for much longer, and you can lose some progress. It can be done but I think it makes more sense for an amature grappler to lift than an amateur striker.
I don't know I mean... it's hard to contradict a high level athlete like that but in my limited athletic experience, it's always felt to me that no matter what sport I was doing, only doing the sport itself didn't develop all the strength I needed. That if at some point I added some weight lifting in my routine to focus on some of the muscles that are heavily solicited by the sport, I would feel the difference.
I've experienced that very clearly for tennis and rock climbing. I would stagnate, then start hitting the gym and after 5-6 weeks would start seeing real results, not so much in my strength as measured in the gym, but in my ability to do some movements rights. For example just playing tennis wouldn't strenghten my grip enough. Yes ideally I'd hit the ball in the middle of the racket if I had perfect technique and timng every time. But sometimes I hit it a little bit offset, and if it's coming hard, the racket would turn a bit in my hand. After workin a bit on my arms and forearms, my control very clearly improved.
I'd argue that in combat too much strength at a younger age or in a early point of the career is a nuisence as it prevails the growth of tehnique
Size and natural strength + durability + athleticism are the best factors..
I train BJJ at 165lb and have sparred with people who have to state in wrestling and competed in judo tournaments, BJJ tournaments, etc… if they are smaller than me they can’t do shit to me .. because of my attributes
I’ve subbed out people that are 240+ … because yes they were bigger than me, but I was strong and durable enough to stay alive while they gassed and was eventually able to get the finish.
If you truly think Skill > Strength then go have Gordon Ryan grapple a silver back and let me know how that goes… he won’t last 45 seconds.
Strength in scenario doesn’t just mean you can curl and bench a lot… strength in talking about you’re conditioned & athletic.
What gordon said about weights is perfect exactly how i train weights, hus training more for muscle endurance/ hypertrophy ...medium weight high reps to faliure, id love to know if he does rest pause sets which i think translate great for grappling
I love how MOST guys can, at any time, get sidetracked from any conversation to talk about how impressive animals are physically. There's something almost innate where we are just in awe of the physical prowess of the animal kingdom. You can be a gym rat, book nerd, gamer, martial arts practitioner, biologist, teacher... it doesn't matter. It's a common topic that we love to engage in or listen to. It's not even what I clicked on the video for, yet I'm here for it
"I look damn good today" every damn day.
I agree with Gordon over GSP on this. The fact of the matter is, Gsp WAS lifting/strength training during his prime even if he believes he doesn't need it anymore. One could even argue that GSP was so good because he was much stronger and in better condition than his opponents. Just look at his old fights, most of them was him just being more explosive and much stronger than his opponents. The times where his strength was matched (Hendricks) he struggled.
strength twice a week squats deadlift, bench row
After you can bench, squat and deadlift more than 150kg strength no longer matters in combat sport. After that it's how explosive you are, how high you can jump and how quick you can burst sprint.
Keeping it real when talking about fedor. I like it
you can make massive strenght gains without massive muscle gains. you want to increase your strenght while not increasing your mass. that's where the power to work efficiency can be measured. remember having huge muscles like a muscle car means you will burn much more as well as require much more fuel to complete the same amount of work. More weight in general means more energy will be expended.
gordon ryan leftout the part about no drug testing in bjj or jj thats why so many of them are jacked on steroids
I was thinking the same thing. "Yeah I love lifting huge weights, because I also do a shit ton of drugs".
John Danaher is huge. Literally. I went to a session in PR with him
Muscles don’t matter….. Gordon and George being ripped and muscular AF hahahahah
True lol also george is strong asf he can do gymnastics lol
Strength and skill is equally important, both are enablers to the end product which is winning. Some misconception about skillset training is that it is like a legendary training, you are still using your limbs to perform that guillotine, if you are able to customize your strength training to the required muscles to perform that guillotine such as core muscle rotator cuff trapezoid training you will still be able to improve at a quick level. A advanced customized strength training will always help and diminishing returns in this case will not exist..i am not discounting the fact of performing the guillotine more times will train your muscle memory to find out which way will be better for you and the hiccups that could occur.. other than that both are important in short use your brain
in combat sports, skill is useless without strenght. Without a basic level of strength your skill wont have any effect and the stronger you are the easier it will be for you to be effective with any technique you learn- the only exception being the high kick, which also requires a decent amout of flexibility.
In combat sports muscles are useless without bones. Because without bones you're just a wiggling worm on the mat........
@@davidbenioff2916 your point is?
@@supern0is349 u dum
Without skill, strength is useless, which was proven in ufc 1 when the smallest guy won because of technique. Weight classes were only even added when they evened out the skill playing field. The answer is simple. Do both, Period. Or your an idiot, because both are vital.
@@angelocarantino4803 purely anectodal- one guy isnt proof of anything. Put him against top muay thai fighter see what happens. When comparing martial arts all we can say is "that guy can beat that guy", because styles do not exist in the vaccum. They are all praticedd by flesh and blood human beings. Royce proved he was a good fighter thats all.
BTW im black belt with 15 year of experience. Im also a lighteatherweight.
I know EXACTLY how to use tecnique to overcome strength, i use it everyday. My own experience contradicts my argument and yet i still say it because its the truth.
Thats called integrity which is something a keyboard warrior who has never steped on that mats will never know.
George is such a nice guy! what a great role model.
there is a reason there are weight classes - anybody that thinks size or strength doesn't matter hasn't had enough actual fights - sparring or rolling at the gym means nothing because the bigger guy is rarely using his entire strength - just like when you roll with somebody smaller or weaker than you, generally you will match their strength and try to use technique, but an actual fight is another story
This is correct. If two people have equal technique but one is stronger the stronger has the advantage. Being able to impose more force on top of good technique will always be an advantage. I wrestled most of my life and there were guys I wrestled with that were technically much better than I was but I’m also extremely strong and that allowed me to negate most of not all their advantage and force them where I wanted to be. At the very top of competition it’s the margins that matter so if you can be even one or two percent better that can be a difference maker. Athletes are best served to continue to develop all qualities to be most effective in their given sport.
@@derekmortensen85 100
0:38 Arnold Shorts in who!!!???🤣🤣🤣✌🏿
You can't really develop great skill without getting stronger automatically. Each time you roll you stimulate your body to get stronger. Each time you hit the bag you get a little stronger.
Sort of, without resistance your strength is stagnant and at some point your endurance will be stagnant. That's why adding some form of resistance or weight training is important
@8:56 interesting quote that brings the rivalry of Kyle Snyder and sadulaev to mind. I always felt like Kyle puts too much into wanting to out muscle the Russian
Size does matter still that’s why there is different weight classes. Technic still matters but so does size and strength. They do have some good points here tho with Diminishing returns. A required weight class really helps with these issues but some still drop 20pounds or more before fight and gain it right back
I just learned who john is today. I can not stop listening to this man speak.
I'm amazed at Lex's complete lack of charisma & enthusiasm. Even the suit he wears says no personality
I know, this is the first vid I've seen of his. the guests he has are legendary and he just seems so out of place. And the animal analogy was terribly delivered wtf
I honestly thought the dude was serious asperger for a long time. But hes sharp and witty, and more human in other pods ive seen
😂😂😂
Yeah but he’s a nice dude that can get guests and is doing good for himself. Can’t hate on that man
@@michaelvaldez5453 agreed
That John guy is a thinker. I am impressed. I wouldn't be surprised if he were into Backus-Naur notation as well.
GSP morphing into JCVD nicely
An interview with the GOATs: Each one of these men are the Goat's of their field
Gordon isn't a goat lmfao just takes roids
If you find a good instructor that teaches you how to get strong without losing mobility or injuring yourself its not up for debate, being stronger and more explosive will improve your game. Competent, intelligent and experienced strength coaches are few and far between and lifting weights is one of the few methods of training/art forms that everybody thinks they know how to do.
Look up "knees over toes guy" here on TH-cam.
@@randallrobertson7190 is that a rebuttal or just suggesting content?
11:20 - Function over Form. Always !
You need both. But if you can push the pace faster than your opponent, if you can do that longer while being stronger it's a massive advantage. So much so most fighters in MMA history have used PEDs to gain that advantage at great costs to life and career.
U need a certain baseline level of strength, then skill will be the main focus to get better. Benching more after a certain point doesn't mean u can beat other trained fighters that are more skilled, but they can't bench as much as u.
Before we start hypothesizing about which animal , let's start just with a MMA match for Gordon
I think that it is important to note that in most combat sports there are weight classes. I believe that more strength is almost always better but more strength usually means more muscule mass and more muscule mass means more weight. This can put you in a higher weight class. So it is important to know at what point adding more muscule wont help you. This is the point of diminishing returns. I think this depends on the combat sport. For example, I think that wrestlers need more muscule mass than boxers.
It is enough to look at how Alexander Karelin trained to stop asking questions whether physical strength matters. He would break any MMA fighter with no problem at all.
No he woudnt he cant fight🤣🤣🤣 all he did was greco which isnt even affective in mma
@@isaacalzate8262 Who is the heavyweight champion now? Francis Ngannou . Does he have good wrestling or punching technique? No. He boxed like a drunk octopus and weak at wrestling. Francis is champion because he is physically the strongest (but I repeat that Karelin was much stronger physically) . Moreover, greco wrestling is the strongest background for MMA, Karelin in his prime would break anyone. Karelin could suplex even an elephant.
11:19 John Danaher (wearing a Under Armour rash guard with Adidas pants)
meanwhile, Gordon Ryan (sporting an Ariat top, cowboy hat, and large belt buckle) 😉
Strength can override technique and vice versa also conditioning is supplemental to whatever the demand or sport is and it’s amazing how much ignorance still exists on the subject leaving a lot of vulnerability to shady or naive so called strength and conditioning coaches who can exploit many out of their money 💰
great insight as I have struggled with bjj because of my previous powerlifting and bodybuilding. John Danaher said it best, at the point of diminishing return, make a choice. The other issue in the real world is that as we age (I'm 60 yrs old now) the appearance of being menacing can keep you out of a lot of otherwise dangerous situations. A friend of mine who is my age and also lifts and does bjj agreed and decided that for guys our age, we need to look like we could cause a young gun some problems. Now I realize this means nothing on the mat, but in life it does help as most thugs think like animals and size matters. But I gas pretty quickly on the mat, so I have to really focus on remaining calm and NOT go to my strength to get me out of bad situations as it is very easy sometimes to break locks or grips with raw power.
Just wanna give a little take on the animal thing. You'd be surprised tbh a tiger has much greater range of motion and is quicker. But lions have much much better cardio. A tiger could definitely kill a lion but the longer both cats fight the more it favours the lion. And pretty much in my life aswell as research i have seen 1 tiger vs lion video a real one. It wasn't good tbh people forced them to fight in a pit. But that's what happened.
The lion won
the tiger is built & works like an assassin. hides in the forests, stalks , and pounces. the lion lives in the open African savannah , so he’s more muscular, and isn’t as agile, because he doesn’t stalk and hide in bushes.
@@badmorty5164 intresting shit tho buddy
The strength itself is a very lose term. What are you determining as strength? How much you can lift, how strong is your explosive power, etc, etc. I think it's strength specific to the activity which is more important.
The way george pronounced arnold LMAO
GSP is such a classy fellow. I got nothing but love for him.
You have Splinter, Raphael, and Leonardo now you just need two more amazing fighters to fill out the ninja turtles
GSP is definitely Leo
I wish they could have brought up the topic of muscle mass as leverage or protection.
I really want to know whether a really big biceps allows for certain submissions, like the guillotine to provide a different sort of leverage or pressure point.
Likewise, can someone have thick enough neck musculature to make them considerably harder to choke out.
I was hoping for that too when the topic came up.
Gordon seems to be downplaying the effects of the Mexican supps that are running through his veins.
Skill in anything is always #1. But being strong and resilient is always #2. And lots of guys have won just by being stronger. That's the reason martial arts like jiu-jitsu were invented.
Danaher expressed quite an important idea about diminishing returns of incremental investments of time and resource into strengh training/ Actually it`s a universal law of non-linearity that has, for instance implications in drug or supplement taking in sports. it`s beneficial to rise your D-vitamin level from 20 to 70 (50 units), but the next 50 units increase from 70 to 120 would be less beneficial for your health and body. almost everything around us works in accordance with this non-linearity law
No one spoke to Georges' point about him perceiving zero or negative effects from body building training. If you grow the muscles that are not gonna be useful for your fighting style (e.g. a boxer grows large slow twitching biceps muscles), that extra weight will eat your speed and energy. Flexors may end up slowing down the extensors and so on.
Large muscles are fast twitch fibres. Big biceps help.
Just take a look at Ngannou vs Gane - strength definetly is one of the most important things
Nganou used his strength on wrestling/grappling. Not really in striking. Advantage in striking still generally goes to Gane. Except for power strikes.
Ngannou was so physically strong that Gane just couldn't crank his leg lol. As if jujitsu doesn't work on such a physically strong guy. Ngannou has tree trunks for legs.
@@omegaboostZ Well yeah - JiuJitsu does obviously not work on someone who is a lot stronger than you (at least if he has some kind of a clue what he is doing).
@@omegaboostZ the heelhook had bad mechanics thats why it didnt work, not because he is "strong" . Hahaha
@@yacine_mkhlf Most probably. Against someone like Buchecha, I'm pretty sure Ngannou would tap. That would in fact be an insane match up.
6:15
Rabbit killing a snake. Surprised me at least. Saw it on Joe Rogan of course. Where else?
You dont do heavy weights because they'll 'tear' the muscle.....but you do high reps to 'really break down the fibers' ?.......huh? Heavy weights are highly effective in increasing stress and don't cause as much inflammation and soreness as high rep work which would get in the way of training BJJ.
This is the cliche truth, when skill levels are about the same in elite competitions, strength starts to matter more
Wow, John. Tell us more about this "magic potion" that makes such a difference?!?! 🤨
it starts with an S
Wow. I've just learned a lot just by listening to this!
Arnold SchwarzeWHAT?????
Ummm, isn't that his name? I know what your trying to say but clearly he's not alluding to anything other than his name.
Listening to these guys talk is so soothing that I was actually flaking asleep. Which sucks cause I want to hear what they say.
"i think we need joe rogan in this discussion" cheers from argentina
They thought of him while trying to determine if gorilla would defeat a bear. I wonder why?😀
@@AleksandrBrener i think it is because of his knowledge about hunting and his willing to talk about what the f..ck he wants
@@LIC.GAMGUT Some people claim that he rolls hard in bjj comparing him to an animal, in a good spirit of cause.
Overwhelming strength can be unstoppable no matter how much skill
Like no matter how good a WW gets francis would win but nobody gets THAT strong so normally overwhelming skill would win in the same weightclass
No one tells Fedor he doesn't look good today, so why would he care about it. No one can beat him up.
Georges Str-Pierre a Legend, a real Sportsman.
Tiger is bigger than a lion. Honestly, tigers are bigger than horses. Fucking terrifying real life monsters up close. I love them.
Tigers are not bigger than horses dude the biggest horses weight over 2500lbs, the world record liger (which are much bigger than tigers) weighs just over 900lbs, it's not even close.
@@haitianxu Siberian tigers are 10 feet long which is much bigger than most horses. They may not weigh as much, but when you see one up close you'll realize how fucking huge they are.
@@jalcomics Ur obviously blind
I saw a video of a lion taking on 6 tigers
John danaher mentioned about strength beyond some point is not useful. Like lifting 100lbs and 200lbs doesn't make much difference in grappling. So if i am 170 cm height and 75kg weight what would be ideal max weight i should lift in-
1)squat
2)dead lift
3)bench
Like 100kg would do?? To be strong enough to reach my optimum level in fighting.
Can anyone help 🙏??