Nice video. I think it’s always important to remember that the rapier is essentially a dedicated dueling weapon, it shines when you don’t have to worry about it getting stuck in things, breaking, or the how uncomfortable the guard is when worn at the side.
On the next occasion have your sparring partner also use a dagger with the rapier, which was seriously utilised during that time period, and see how much more difficult it is to fight and defend against a rapier.
I practice Nito Ryu Kendo, so short sword long word. Two swords against one (more so if two handed) has pros and cons. The main one being a two handed sword can suppress a one handed sword with more strength than the other way around
Yeah and katanas were used with a wakisashi so it would just be bringing it from one/one to two/two, if you get in range for dagger you may juste want to let go of your katana and use your shorter weapon so it would basically be exactly the same sparring, except there would be a secondary shorter weapons fight if the katana wielder gets close (basically if he does that he won the previous phase. Closing the range gap and forcing a same range fight with dagger and wakisashi is going from a disadvantageous situation to a fair one. Adding this close combat phase wouldn't really change the fact that reaching it is a kind of win for the katana wielder. Close range fight afterwards wouldn't mean much about the main weapon matchup.)
@@pantheraleoromanus6241 OR you explain yourself with words, I can hear any argument you have please don't just say "there is a video on internet." I don't even know what you're trying to say
Would also be interesting to mix the cards a little bit. Katana and Longsword/rapier have been done to death imho. Nodachi vs falchion, katana vs falchion, nodachi vs rapier and so on would be more interesting as in never really seen before
Katana vs Langemesser or bigger: Tachi/Nodachi vs Kriegsmesser would be a great analogous but different traditions matchup. My Messer got a lot better after doing some Kenjutsu work.
@@ludusferocia8696 Speaking of mixing up matches that have been done to death, would it be possible to experiment with swords vs. spears in some sort of *enclosed* space? Obviously, spears have the advantage over swords in an open fight; but I think the typical spear vs. sword experiments have given some people a "Final Destination bias" (if you will,) and it would be interesting to see how different a sparring session would pan out in the middle of the woods or some place of that nature.
@@Angatyr34 That would be interesting for sure, I have been watching some Katana techniques for use with my Kriegsmesser. Granted, I am never actually going to spar with my Kriegsmesser (it being a sharp blade), but that doesn't make it any less interesting (the only blades I do spar with are my HEMA Langmesser and longsword)
I fence a kenjutsu/iaido practitioner every so often but using more early rapier (sidesword) and destreza. Usually using what is more typical of a sailor at the time: a bilbao sword (boca de caballo) which is about 30"/76cm broader blade on a shell-hilt handle. It's a fun match-up, and less focused on the reach. That said, once I get a proper destreza/sidesword blade at longer length I want to go for that too.
Fun video to watch. I can't comment on the rapier player but as a Kendoka for the katana player a couple things... Don't lean forward. Puts all your weight on your front leg and plants you in one place. Stand straight with weight balanced on both feet so you can move in any direction quickly. Against a rapier using kendo/kenjutsu would mean either getting in close enough to be past an effective thrust for a close cut, or a dodging parry strike. With a two handed sword you can control your opponent"s one handed sword more effectively. But it all starts with footwork and a stronger stance
He explained in his video why he had to modify his stance. a stronger stance got his legs sniped by the rapier. man is an instructor.... i dont think he needs you to tell him the absolute basics
These are good points and appreciate the feedback. Admittedly, I am still experimenting with fighting a rapier with a katana but standing straight up (as if I were fighting another katana) did not work well the first time we tested this. Front-loading got me more wins. That being said, that does not mean what you are saying is incorrect either. I will experiment more with this in our next video and try out what you are saying.
@@ludusferocia8696 Nice video! I'd say: take the front loading much further! 😀 See how much faster you can move in while controlling his blade, to prevent him from retreating and realigning fast enough, and then either cut or thrust. When cutting, see if you can get him all the way from the tsuba, in stead of mono uchi, to bridge his distance advantage. And thrusting, certainly against such a fast weapon, can give him a problem sooner than cutting would, so perhaps you can test that too? Ganbatte!
Hello, how si the Katana holding up so far. The Purple Heart Armory Katanas are made by VB Amory from Hungary and for me that is just across the border so I am thinking of getting one. We have a lot of there sabers in the school and we are all very happy with them.
@@miroslavm2503 The katana is holding up really nicely. The flexibility allows it to stay true after intense usage while also feeling light in the hands. It's overall a very nice and durable sparring blade and I highly recommend it
Great sparring footage! Europeans came to Japan to trade so most times they would even encountered each other historically would likely be from the scabbard. Can you experiment around with this scenario and how the rapier might have to deal with it? Also what Ryu does your reconstructed style stems from? I don’t think I’ve heard it before but I’m always interested in ones that have been revived
We wanted to try that next with batto with the katana and drawing into "prima" from the rapier. That will be in our next video for sure! I started study in the basics of kenjutsu from Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, but was later picked up by a dojo when I entered college. They used a system called Shinjo Ryu, which I have never been able to find much on in terms of lineage. There were also elements from another instructor who would come in from time to time but I never asked for his Ryu.
I was thinking that too. I heard that Portuguese explorers/traders may have encountered Japanese pirates (and, of course, the Portuguese carried Iberian cup-hilt rapiers).
@@JanetStarChild there’s a bit of ambiguity there too. Many pirates that the Europeans encountered were not Japanese and may or may not have been using Japanese swords. Also, European sailors may have not been using rapiers unanimously and may have carried early types of hanger. There is a lot of different variables and possibilities aside from the “rapier vs katana” matchup we like to theorize about.
I'd love to see this fight done over, but with an appropriate side-arm for each fighter. Maybe Wakizashi for Katana, and a dagger or stiletto for the Rapier. The length, and thrust on a rapier is so difficult to evade, but without a side-arm to block with, all attacks leave the wielder open to counters which, against the slashing of a Katana would almost always be fatal. At least, that's how I imagine it would play out.
We just finished our part two of this. We uploaded it and we're just getting it ready for launch. This time we paired the katana against multiple types of rapiers
Keep in mind Europeans of the 1500s time period most likely also offhanded a parrying dagger until firearms where mainstream. Especially in Spain and Italy where it was common.
The key to defeat the rapier is treat it like a spear. The second you touch it and block it down, either grab it , and close in. Fencing with a longer weapon will only slow things down. Attack the weapon first ....hard..and the Katana can actually block the thin blade long enough to run in past the sharp point. If you can get the user against a wall it will be easier to win.
This isn't Rob Roy, you try grabbing a razor sharp metal blade and tell us all how that will win you a duel. The rapierist is trained for this at the most basic level: if someone traps your blade... step far back and strongly retract the weapon.
@@forthecountry7920 some rapiers don’t have sharp sides . The longer and thinner they can break. It’s like a hand held mini spear. Its main mission is to poke at weak spots. Not slash. They are great intimidation poking weapons tho. That’s is their strength.
That was really good, and demonstrated that length confers a serious advantage. So the rapier will win. But the blows by the katana would have been significantly more damaging. The fight illustrates the central point of rapier v katana. The context is the weapons were built for particular circumstances. Both weapons are better, in the conditions they were developed for.
Katana vs "anything" : Ever consider a sparring session starting from the scabbard each time for both weapons? Seems like the katana was the equivalent of a modern side arm in a owb holster (vs as the primary battle weapon) , so it's greatest inherent advantage might be from the speedy draw/strike from the saya vs a prolonged encounter?
Most swords are side arms, in that they are weapons of personal defence that are fairly easy to carry. There are exceptions, such as Zweihänder/Montante (large 2-handed swords) that were carried as primary weapons, along with smaller swords as side arms, but otherwise pretty much every other sword would fit into the side arm category.
Well the katanas Excel in that area as they are actually designed for self defense not a battle weapon. Katanas were not intentionally carried onto a battlefield , they used a larger more sturdy version called a tachi for battle. And even that was still a "secondary weapon". The samurai were archers.
@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 during the late sengoku era katana were definitely carried into battle. And samurai, while primarily mounted archers, often occupied every other role in the army.
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 maybe by the end of their time, but for the most part it the "katana" didn't even exist. Most people just confuse the tachi for a katana (many were even shortened later to about the size of a katana) and yes obviously any army has pretty much any position you can think of, but as a whole their primary battle weapon was the bow and arrow
Katana is fun but any time one comes out at my local club the user tends to get liquidated by raper and longsword. Not a meta on katana as a weapon, as I do enjoy it. Just sharing my own first hand doing full speed sparring with em. Having said that, this tends to be true in most matches with a much shorter weapon against a longer one. I feel similar using my 36inch broadsword against 40+ inch rapier. Doable but the difficulty level rises significantly.
My so far first and only fencing partner used to do a lot of destreza, while I do sidesword mostly. One thing I learn fighting against a rapier is that those things seem to have their tips with a spring coil attached to the center line. No matter how much you move the blade away from you, it will return at the center line and the harder you do this, the faster it will come back at you. At a certain point gets annoying 🤣
From a current military point of view I see the squared stance of the samurai as making the armor work for them to protect the armpits and the simple long hilt of the katana makes it quick to deploy and maneuver in armor during adrenaline dumps as a PDW. I don't see the katana as a great unarmored dueling sword where first blood is concerned against swords designed for that purpose. The katana practically looks to be designed for a fight in armor as a backup tool where a squared stance opens up many grappling opportunities and the armor allows one to sustain a cut to secure the victory so to speak. Outside of armor the speed of deployment also shows it is concerned with defending against surprise assaults and not strict duels. It makes sense for what it is designed for and is silly for what it is not. It is however better than other swords due to its relevance in popculture and subsequent revenue fictional katanas generate. We can thank a yellow jumpsuit, a turtle, and any anime or marvel garbage for that.
True. Accords with what I've learnt through kendo, and also squared on and read to charge in works if they are going to go for hands. Take it in the kote, cleave the head. The person with the rapier might say, "I hit!", but they are still thinking like modern fencing, but light pokes into good armour will I suspect do very little, and they aren't then protecting the head.
There are Rapiers even longer than this one. It really is hard to get passed one with a Katana. The key is speed. You have to be very fast. I saw two guys who had wooden models spar and the Rapier guy definitely had more deadly hits. The Katana guy did manage a few and when he did it was only because of speed and surprise
That Rapier is much shorter and propably lighter than mine (1140g, 104cbm blade) and as you are allowed to use 2 hands, he should be too and use a dagger in the off hand. That changes SO much. AAND that fight happened with the Portugese beeing in Japan. But what you expirienced corresponds to what we were in our club, when not using a dagger
@@allmachtsdaggl5109 oh ok, so what did you mean by “that fight happened with the Portuguese beeing in Japan”? Did you mean it was plausible given the time period?
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 Oh I should have been clearer. Had added it later... The fight between Rapier and Katana did however happen. But I am not sure if the dagger was involved there. However the dagger was involved when we tried that in our club
@@allmachtsdaggl5109 oh gotcha. Can you direct me to those rapier vs katana fights you found anyway? I’m trying to collect as many of these accounts as I can and you might have one I missed. Thanks 🙏
This is very interesting. If a French musketeer or pirate were to find themselves in Edo period Japan, as much as I absolutely admire and love the katana, I honestly have to say, an un armored samurai policeman or city official mayor in charge of keeping the peace I think would actually be at a disadvantage. Now I’m sure this is not actual live combat speed. They had to slow it down for demonstration and safety purposes. I have to say that a French or English soldier or privateer might actually get the upper hand on a samurai. Now if this was during the Sengoku jidai, where warriors, both ashigaru and samurai who are combat tested and have fought in battles defending against swords and spears, then I think the conquistador might be in trouble.
I prefer a rapier against any not heavily armoured opponent with a blade of any kind : superior reach , superior stabbing ability and , contrary to what some claim , a very , very decent cutting ability.
many styles of Koryu Bujutsu have dual wielding, therefore it would be more likely for the japanese to use the kodachi and uchigatana. not just the katana like in anime and movies.
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 Both. Katanas are 2-handed weapons designed to be used by themselves, while rapiers are 1-handed weapons specifically designed as one half of a weapon pair (rapier & dagger). And there's a historical case of the two fighting each other - the 1582 battles of Cayagan between outnumbered rapier-armed Spanish troops from the Philippines vs katana-armed Japanese pirates. The Spanish won - thou, of course, there were other weapons involved (eg both also had pikes & muskets)
The batelfield also matters allot. In a confined space like on a ship woth lots of people fighting around you for instance a Katana would definitely be a better option. On a open field with lots of space the Rapier is definitely superior
Rapier instructor level or higher won't let their opponents in that close as long as they place any emphasis on their footwork. They're not much of an instructor if they neglect their footwork. Renaissance Europeans were a lot more interested in winning at warfare than honor. See Olympic Fencing.
It's the times and area nothin wrong with a katana a katana vs a Messer the Messer has a hand gaurd and thumbnail a katana is anyhoo long story short a sword is an extension of one's self
Rapier wins easily in this kind of duel. Assuming equal blade length, 1 handed gets much more reach than 2 handed. Also much easier to score points with thrusting weapon as opposed to trying to thrust with cutting blade.
Very interesting fight! During the 17th The Tokugawa Shogun had to ban the dutch officers to bring their swords to shore with them because they were decimating japanese nobility in dueling! Most of those swords were rapiers from Toledo captured from spanish offciers during the Eighty Years' War!
Is there any reason why your opponent didn't seem to try and stab you in the hands, specifically? I myself found it a really effective thing to do against both katana and longsword users - not only can it hit, the threat of it forces them out of longpoint/posta longa/sprechfenster position. That in turn makes it even easier for the rapier to fake them out with a blade void.
Hello, great video, point of flag etiquette, however: When the US flag is hung vertically, the stars should always be in the upper left, your flag is currently hung backwards. Fecht on brothers
I think it would be realistic if it would simulate a fight to the death. A rapier can get first blood much faster but unless it hits some important artery is superfecial and the other csn double and kill the rapierist
That's what happened a lot in this video. You would get stuck with a point but it's not going to incapacitate you right away. You could still land a death blow
Fighting against the rapier seems to negate most of the katana's edge, forcing you to use just the tip of the blade, making the katana into a thick short rapier. Not a happy place to be!
The rapier user doesn't have a left-hand dagger, as he typically would - so he's essentially fighting 1-handed against a 2-handed opponent. 🤨 And despite having that *huge* disadvantage he still comes out ahead 😜 Also, both have armored gloves, which eliminates the rapier's critical advantage in being able to easily attack the opponent's hands (...since the katana has awful hand protection), while the katana cant' retaliate due to the rapier's superior complex hilt.
This is free sparring, not an actual dual to main or kill so of course they're wearing gloves. The point of this sort of sparring is to *pretend* that you're not armored at all, while wearing your PPE to stay safe. Also, yes, most of the time a rapier was used with an off-hand dagger, but not always, it depended on the person and the circumstance.
I'm not sure whether I understood correctly, but did you say that fights rapier vs katana wouldn't have happened historically? Because they certainly did, and we have records thereof.
@@ludusferocia8696 the Portuguese were a significant presence in 16th-17th c. Japan, and we have records of several battles and armed clashes between them and the Japanese. Reportedly there were also instances of duels, so it's highly likely that historically some rapier fencers did face off against katana users.
@@harnischfechter I only know of 2 different Portuguese accounts of armed clashes, both on Japanese soil, but they are not very descriptive. Can you be so kind to point to these accounts you’re referring to? I’ve had a really hard time finding them.
The rapier is the better sword tbh, but the way of using a katana is superior to the way of using a rapier. Especially if you aren't familiar with how they are used.
Most of the time, it depends on the fighter. But in this case, it depends on the context. In armor, the katana will have an advantage. Without armor? The rapier will most likely win. But if both warriors are dedicated, chances are both will die. Rapiers are more lethal due to their reach and thrusting-oriented nature. Katanas can incapacitate easier as they have a more percussive cut and can easily take out limbs. Even if a fatal thrust is delivered by the rapier, a truly dedicated katana user (or any cut and thrust sword), could take the stab and deliver a nasty counter.
@@ludusferocia8696 definitely and being that the "katana" or really any of the curved japanese swords are intended for evading the opponents attack altogether and countering with a cut, or even a stab to the more open parts of the body. The more sturdy swords like a tachi could handle some direct "sword fighting" but it's still not meant to be used that way. And a katana just really can't handle direct sword fighting. Especially of the time period katanas were very cheaply made from poor materials.
@@ludusferocia8696 and like I mentioned if you have no idea how the Japanese used swords it would be extremely awkward to oppose and nearly impossible to predict. So even with the much less well made sword it'd be mighty hard for some knight out of Europe with a long sword to defeat a samurai in a 1 on 1 swordfight.
So, a katana specialist against a longsword practitioner with a light, thin rapier? OK, how about a rapier specialist with a battle rapier, like the LK Chen Saxony rapier? Modern rapiers are too light and short for a historically accurate comparison.
Rapier is NOT as strong as Europeans say they are. Historically it is proven. Magellan and his crew got killed in a sword fight with a Tribe of LapuLapu in the Philippines. Kampilan a sword used by Lapulapu is even shorter than a katana.
Im confused, why make this video without 2 respected professionals of the craft ? Neither of you study the katana or the rapier right ? Isn't this a misrepresentation of the vs sparring? 🤔
Very p00r rapierist. We are sparring very often rapier vs katana and rapier vs saber. If rapierist is rly good its absolute overkill (like 10:0 for rapier). If we are using rapier with maine gauche then its total annihilation of katana guy.
A lot a bad, very bad hits from the fighter with the rapier. The problem with a weapon that does not have a lot of energy in the cut is that the target, the force behind the cut, the part of the blade that does the cutting and as always the edge alignment need to be very, vey good for the rapier to cut well. On two occasions where the presenter judges the result as a double in fact the Rapier didn't do anything since it was actually a hit with the flat of the blade against the forehead. Most other cuts where very, very weak. Event if the forehead was cut, so what, the forehead is a very strong bone and for a good reason. Do not make the mistake of simply saying well the head it the premium target and a best target for a "light" hitting weapon. "Tag playing" can be done with a Longsword if the target is the head but not with a Riaper, the hit needs to be good, the egged needs to be well aligned or else it's all weatsed. You cannot treat the head there everything is encased in a bone cage as you would the neck, the head is not an easy target for light hitting weapon at all.
Head cuts from rapiers historically ended fights quite effectively. It may not have incapacitated or killed someone, but it often rendered them combat ineffective or unwilling. The flat hits, I'll agree on. But being that many rapiers can actually cut very effectively, even small snap cuts to the forehead can be fight enders.
@@ludusferocia8696 Yes, I agree that cuts to the head can end fights very effectively even do they might not be ultimately fatal. I hope I didn't come off as too critic in my previous comment. My point was that dependent on the exact type of a rapier used and the specific target, the cut will need to be a good one and with adequate force to have effect. I would assert that for most common types of Rapiers (civilian types), that renders "snap cuts" (light force) not that effective on targets that are protected with strong and thick bones like the head (forehead). I agree that judging what kills after some time, what gets someone out of a fight immediately and what can take effect after a few minutes is difficult and based on many specific circumstances. But based on my own life experience including one where a blade was drawn and broken ribs and many bruises where a result, the body can and is well able to continue fighting in the presence of many none internal/critical injuries as long as the main organs are not damaged.
Wow, what an entirely useless video. It is clear the the person with the katana has no skill in using it. Given that, what value is drawn from watching a video in which the participants have no actual skill in the weapon they are using (at least one of them)? About as useful as watching 2 moneys beat each other with mops.
Damn man. I can physically feel your fedora through this comment. But I did happen to notice that you have refrained from posting your own masterful fencing videos.
Yeah... it wasn't much better the second time you said it...it just makes your comment a little hard to take seriously is all. To show us how it's done, I'm always open to learning
@@ludusferocia8696 he is 100% correct in both statements. U really bad Bad battle stance, bad footwork, no idea how to cut. Kyu grade kendokas way better then u.
This rapier is a bit too short for that fighter's size and that katana is way longer than any historical design I've ever seen. Anyone fighting with a katana would be wearing heavier armor than a rapierist and would rely on that and at some point, they would go in for a wide sweep against primary body mass. Then they would likely eat a face cut or a blow to the hand, which without any hand protection from a katana is game ending. This is not a great comparison to fighters who would be wielding these weapons historically. Saying some rapiers "can" cut (but it's really only a thrusting weapon), really does not give any justice to what even a glancing cut to unarmored placements does to a human being (face and hands primarily). The CNS goes sideways when you get cut significantly at any level - even by "glancing" cuts. Anyone who ever cut their finger making a salad can relate. That is the opening a rapier wielder is looking for prior to a killing pierce thrust. The rapier will win every time when skill levels are equal. Period.
Be sure to watch Part 2 below! We bring a rapier instructor and 3 rapiers against the katana
th-cam.com/video/vVCukj0ZyUY/w-d-xo.html
Rapier vs Jian
Katana vs Cutlass
Guandao vs Bardiche/ Dane Axe
the skills of the persons involved are the most important ... the rapier has an advantage but skillls matter more.
Nice video. I think it’s always important to remember that the rapier is essentially a dedicated dueling weapon, it shines when you don’t have to worry about it getting stuck in things, breaking, or the how uncomfortable the guard is when worn at the side.
Always fun to see the theorey in practice. Especially when it gets into body to body fighting.
Gratitude for the video.
Thank you!
On the next occasion have your sparring partner also use a dagger with the rapier, which was seriously utilised during that time period, and see how much more difficult it is to fight and defend against a rapier.
I practice Nito Ryu Kendo, so short sword long word. Two swords against one (more so if two handed) has pros and cons. The main one being a two handed sword can suppress a one handed sword with more strength than the other way around
@@dvVIII true, but it's not as if wielding your rapier with 2 hands is very practical
Yeah and katanas were used with a wakisashi so it would just be bringing it from one/one to two/two, if you get in range for dagger you may juste want to let go of your katana and use your shorter weapon so it would basically be exactly the same sparring, except there would be a secondary shorter weapons fight if the katana wielder gets close (basically if he does that he won the previous phase. Closing the range gap and forcing a same range fight with dagger and wakisashi is going from a disadvantageous situation to a fair one. Adding this close combat phase wouldn't really change the fact that reaching it is a kind of win for the katana wielder. Close range fight afterwards wouldn't mean much about the main weapon matchup.)
@@luckydust4375 Perhaps watch part 2 of this series prior to making your comment.
@@pantheraleoromanus6241 OR you explain yourself with words, I can hear any argument you have please don't just say "there is a video on internet." I don't even know what you're trying to say
Would also be interesting to mix the cards a little bit. Katana and Longsword/rapier have been done to death imho.
Nodachi vs falchion, katana vs falchion, nodachi vs rapier and so on would be more interesting as in never really seen before
We're on it! Those combos sound very interesting and def have not be done.
Katana vs Langemesser or bigger: Tachi/Nodachi vs Kriegsmesser would be a great analogous but different traditions matchup.
My Messer got a lot better after doing some Kenjutsu work.
what about saber? they it wont be too unfair since they have about the same lenght
@@ludusferocia8696 Speaking of mixing up matches that have been done to death, would it be possible to experiment with swords vs. spears in some sort of *enclosed* space?
Obviously, spears have the advantage over swords in an open fight; but I think the typical spear vs. sword experiments have given some people a "Final Destination bias" (if you will,) and it would be interesting to see how different a sparring session would pan out in the middle of the woods or some place of that nature.
@@Angatyr34 That would be interesting for sure, I have been watching some Katana techniques for use with my Kriegsmesser.
Granted, I am never actually going to spar with my Kriegsmesser (it being a sharp blade), but that doesn't make it any less interesting (the only blades I do spar with are my HEMA Langmesser and longsword)
I fence a kenjutsu/iaido practitioner every so often but using more early rapier (sidesword) and destreza. Usually using what is more typical of a sailor at the time: a bilbao sword (boca de caballo) which is about 30"/76cm broader blade on a shell-hilt handle. It's a fun match-up, and less focused on the reach.
That said, once I get a proper destreza/sidesword blade at longer length I want to go for that too.
It's like boxing someone reachy- hard to get closer.
Fun video to watch.
I can't comment on the rapier player but as a Kendoka for the katana player a couple things...
Don't lean forward. Puts all your weight on your front leg and plants you in one place. Stand straight with weight balanced on both feet so you can move in any direction quickly. Against a rapier using kendo/kenjutsu would mean either getting in close enough to be past an effective thrust for a close cut, or a dodging parry strike. With a two handed sword you can control your opponent"s one handed sword more effectively. But it all starts with footwork and a stronger stance
He explained in his video why he had to modify his stance. a stronger stance got his legs sniped by the rapier. man is an instructor.... i dont think he needs you to tell him the absolute basics
These are good points and appreciate the feedback. Admittedly, I am still experimenting with fighting a rapier with a katana but standing straight up (as if I were fighting another katana) did not work well the first time we tested this. Front-loading got me more wins. That being said, that does not mean what you are saying is incorrect either. I will experiment more with this in our next video and try out what you are saying.
@@ludusferocia8696 Nice video! I'd say: take the front loading much further! 😀 See how much faster you can move in while controlling his blade, to prevent him from retreating and realigning fast enough, and then either cut or thrust. When cutting, see if you can get him all the way from the tsuba, in stead of mono uchi, to bridge his distance advantage. And thrusting, certainly against such a fast weapon, can give him a problem sooner than cutting would, so perhaps you can test that too? Ganbatte!
@@efafe4972 this "instructor" so bad as my local 1st year larp players
Facepalm.jpg
Actually u can't control rapier with katana cause it got very nimble blade
A naginata versus a glaive might be interesting
We agree! Future video?
Love the Jack Chain !
Happy to lend you my katana for the sparring lol
Hello, how si the Katana holding up so far. The Purple Heart Armory Katanas are made by VB Amory from Hungary and for me that is just across the border so I am thinking of getting one. We have a lot of there sabers in the school and we are all very happy with them.
@@miroslavm2503 The katana is holding up really nicely. The flexibility allows it to stay true after intense usage while also feeling light in the hands. It's overall a very nice and durable sparring blade and I highly recommend it
Great sparring footage! Europeans came to Japan to trade so most times they would even encountered each other historically would likely be from the scabbard. Can you experiment around with this scenario and how the rapier might have to deal with it?
Also what Ryu does your reconstructed style stems from? I don’t think I’ve heard it before but I’m always interested in ones that have been revived
We wanted to try that next with batto with the katana and drawing into "prima" from the rapier. That will be in our next video for sure!
I started study in the basics of kenjutsu from Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, but was later picked up by a dojo when I entered college. They used a system called Shinjo Ryu, which I have never been able to find much on in terms of lineage. There were also elements from another instructor who would come in from time to time but I never asked for his Ryu.
I was thinking that too. I heard that Portuguese explorers/traders may have encountered Japanese pirates (and, of course, the Portuguese carried Iberian cup-hilt rapiers).
@@JanetStarChild there’s a bit of ambiguity there too. Many pirates that the Europeans encountered were not Japanese and may or may not have been using Japanese swords. Also, European sailors may have not been using rapiers unanimously and may have carried early types of hanger. There is a lot of different variables and possibilities aside from the “rapier vs katana” matchup we like to theorize about.
Great video. Do more like these.
I'd love to see this fight done over, but with an appropriate side-arm for each fighter. Maybe Wakizashi for Katana, and a dagger or stiletto for the Rapier. The length, and thrust on a rapier is so difficult to evade, but without a side-arm to block with, all attacks leave the wielder open to counters which, against the slashing of a Katana would almost always be fatal.
At least, that's how I imagine it would play out.
We just finished our part two of this. We uploaded it and we're just getting it ready for launch. This time we paired the katana against multiple types of rapiers
Great channel. How about a similarly-length rapier vs. odachi? Or perhaps a match with a rapier vs. Glock 19?
Keep in mind Europeans of the 1500s time period most likely also offhanded a parrying dagger until firearms where mainstream. Especially in Spain and Italy where it was common.
Not only daggers but shields, lanterns, cloaks, plate or mail gloves...
The key to defeat the rapier is treat it like a spear. The second you touch it and block it down, either grab it , and close in. Fencing with a longer weapon will only slow things down. Attack the weapon first ....hard..and the Katana can actually block the thin blade long enough to run in past the sharp point.
If you can get the user against a wall it will be easier to win.
This isn't Rob Roy, you try grabbing a razor sharp metal blade and tell us all how that will win you a duel. The rapierist is trained for this at the most basic level: if someone traps your blade... step far back and strongly retract the weapon.
@@forthecountry7920 some rapiers don’t have sharp sides . The longer and thinner they can break. It’s like a hand held mini spear. Its main mission is to poke at weak spots. Not slash. They are great intimidation poking weapons tho. That’s is their strength.
That was really good, and demonstrated that length confers a serious advantage. So the rapier will win. But the blows by the katana would have been significantly more damaging. The fight illustrates the central point of rapier v katana.
The context is the weapons were built for particular circumstances. Both weapons are better, in the conditions they were developed for.
If you guys have partisan, halberd, yari and naginata simulators, I'd like to see those put to the test!
We would love that! Currently, we dont have any but polearms would be fun
Thank you for your video
Of course!
Excellent video!👏👏👏
Katana vs "anything" : Ever consider a sparring session starting from the scabbard each time for both weapons? Seems like the katana was the equivalent of a modern side arm in a owb holster (vs as the primary battle weapon) , so it's greatest inherent advantage might be from the speedy draw/strike from the saya vs a prolonged encounter?
This is 100% one of the katanas greatest attributes. I think this would be a great experiment and we can certainly set it up
Most swords are side arms, in that they are weapons of personal defence that are fairly easy to carry. There are exceptions, such as Zweihänder/Montante (large 2-handed swords) that were carried as primary weapons, along with smaller swords as side arms, but otherwise pretty much every other sword would fit into the side arm category.
Well the katanas Excel in that area as they are actually designed for self defense not a battle weapon. Katanas were not intentionally carried onto a battlefield , they used a larger more sturdy version called a tachi for battle. And even that was still a "secondary weapon". The samurai were archers.
@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 during the late sengoku era katana were definitely carried into battle. And samurai, while primarily mounted archers, often occupied every other role in the army.
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 maybe by the end of their time, but for the most part it the "katana" didn't even exist. Most people just confuse the tachi for a katana (many were even shortened later to about the size of a katana) and yes obviously any army has pretty much any position you can think of, but as a whole their primary battle weapon was the bow and arrow
Katana is fun but any time one comes out at my local club the user tends to get liquidated by raper and longsword. Not a meta on katana as a weapon, as I do enjoy it. Just sharing my own first hand doing full speed sparring with em.
Having said that, this tends to be true in most matches with a much shorter weapon against a longer one.
I feel similar using my 36inch broadsword against 40+ inch rapier. Doable but the difficulty level rises significantly.
My so far first and only fencing partner used to do a lot of destreza, while I do sidesword mostly. One thing I learn fighting against a rapier is that those things seem to have their tips with a spring coil attached to the center line. No matter how much you move the blade away from you, it will return at the center line and the harder you do this, the faster it will come back at you. At a certain point gets annoying 🤣
From a current military point of view I see the squared stance of the samurai as making the armor work for them to protect the armpits and the simple long hilt of the katana makes it quick to deploy and maneuver in armor during adrenaline dumps as a PDW. I don't see the katana as a great unarmored dueling sword where first blood is concerned against swords designed for that purpose. The katana practically looks to be designed for a fight in armor as a backup tool where a squared stance opens up many grappling opportunities and the armor allows one to sustain a cut to secure the victory so to speak. Outside of armor the speed of deployment also shows it is concerned with defending against surprise assaults and not strict duels. It makes sense for what it is designed for and is silly for what it is not. It is however better than other swords due to its relevance in popculture and subsequent revenue fictional katanas generate. We can thank a yellow jumpsuit, a turtle, and any anime or marvel garbage for that.
True. Accords with what I've learnt through kendo, and also squared on and read to charge in works if they are going to go for hands. Take it in the kote, cleave the head. The person with the rapier might say, "I hit!", but they are still thinking like modern fencing, but light pokes into good armour will I suspect do very little, and they aren't then protecting the head.
There are Rapiers even longer than this one. It really is hard to get passed one with a Katana. The key is speed. You have to be very fast. I saw two guys who had wooden models spar and the Rapier guy definitely had more deadly hits. The Katana guy did manage a few and when he did it was only because of speed and surprise
It’s more likely than you would think for a rapier to go against a katana. In 1582 the Spanish fought the Japanese in the Philippines.
That Rapier is much shorter and propably lighter than mine (1140g, 104cbm blade) and as you are allowed to use 2 hands, he should be too and use a dagger in the off hand. That changes SO much. AAND that fight happened with the Portugese beeing in Japan. But what you expirienced corresponds to what we were in our club, when not using a dagger
We have a recorded fight between rapier and dagger against katana? Can you please direct me to a source?
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 I will have to film that, i was talking about our own experiments.
@@allmachtsdaggl5109 oh ok, so what did you mean by “that fight happened with the Portuguese beeing in Japan”? Did you mean it was plausible given the time period?
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 Oh I should have been clearer. Had added it later... The fight between Rapier and Katana did however happen. But I am not sure if the dagger was involved there. However the dagger was involved when we tried that in our club
@@allmachtsdaggl5109 oh gotcha. Can you direct me to those rapier vs katana fights you found anyway? I’m trying to collect as many of these accounts as I can and you might have one I missed. Thanks 🙏
This is very interesting. If a French musketeer or pirate were to find themselves in Edo period Japan, as much as I absolutely admire and love the katana, I honestly have to say, an un armored samurai policeman or city official mayor in charge of keeping the peace I think would actually be at a disadvantage. Now I’m sure this is not actual live combat speed. They had to slow it down for demonstration and safety purposes. I have to say that a French or English soldier or privateer might actually get the upper hand on a samurai. Now if this was during the Sengoku jidai, where warriors, both ashigaru and samurai who are combat tested and have fought in battles defending against swords and spears, then I think the conquistador might be in trouble.
I prefer a rapier against any not heavily armoured opponent with a blade of any kind : superior reach , superior stabbing ability and , contrary to what some claim , a very , very decent cutting ability.
I would like to see katana vs rapier and dagger, since that would have been a historical match.
Katana has 0 chance there
Wait historical as in we have record of it happening or that it’s just plausible for the time period?
many styles of Koryu Bujutsu have dual wielding, therefore it would be more likely for the japanese to use the kodachi and uchigatana. not just the katana like in anime and movies.
Agree 100% - that would be historically correct.
This is just the rapier user fighting 1-handed against a 2-handed opponent.
And still winning 😛
@@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699 Both. Katanas are 2-handed weapons designed to be used by themselves, while rapiers are 1-handed weapons specifically designed as one half of a weapon pair (rapier & dagger). And there's a historical case of the two fighting each other - the 1582 battles of Cayagan between outnumbered rapier-armed Spanish troops from the Philippines vs katana-armed Japanese pirates. The Spanish won - thou, of course, there were other weapons involved (eg both also had pikes & muskets)
The rapier user looked very comfortable. A stylish duelist vs. the denim bandit.
The batelfield also matters allot. In a confined space like on a ship woth lots of people fighting around you for instance a Katana would definitely be a better option. On a open field with lots of space the Rapier is definitely superior
It seems like if you get in close, the katana would have a huge advantage.
Yes indeed. That is really the only way to take the rapier's advantage away. That or wear armor.
Rapier instructor level or higher won't let their opponents in that close as long as they place any emphasis on their footwork. They're not much of an instructor if they neglect their footwork. Renaissance Europeans were a lot more interested in winning at warfare than honor.
See Olympic Fencing.
@@ludusferocia8696Yes , if you get past the tip , the Rapier loses it's advantage
@@shatnermohanty6678 u forgot about dagger, pary dagger
Why is the rapier fencer's stance so deep? A taller stance would allow him to control the range better.
He's a Scottish broadsword guy
Longsword vs Katana next?
We can definitely do it
It's the times and area nothin wrong with a katana a katana vs a Messer the Messer has a hand gaurd and thumbnail a katana is anyhoo long story short a sword is an extension of one's self
Good footwork
Everyone should take notice that the different gear they are have on can keep them from doing full ability at the same time
He didn't want you to touch swords with you😊 you would have owned that find and control that he was hoping for knowing that you're probably masterful
Replace the katana for an odatchi and repeat the experiment.
I suppose in a competition I would see this useful, with rules.
The real thing playing by rules will be a disadvantage.
Even duels to the death had rules.
I would really love to see some of these with Chinese jian or dao.
Rapier wins easily in this kind of duel. Assuming equal blade length, 1 handed gets much more reach than 2 handed. Also much easier to score points with thrusting weapon as opposed to trying to thrust with cutting blade.
A Chinese Jian would be a good match against the rapier.
The rapier looks very short to me.
Very interesting fight! During the 17th The Tokugawa Shogun had to ban the dutch officers to bring their swords to shore with them because they were decimating japanese nobility in dueling! Most of those swords were rapiers from Toledo captured from spanish offciers during the Eighty Years' War!
Source? Never heard of this at all, as foreigners killing nobles in duels would cause all sorts of havoc.
Is there any reason why your opponent didn't seem to try and stab you in the hands, specifically? I myself found it a really effective thing to do against both katana and longsword users - not only can it hit, the threat of it forces them out of longpoint/posta longa/sprechfenster position. That in turn makes it even easier for the rapier to fake them out with a blade void.
Hello, great video, point of flag etiquette, however: When the US flag is hung vertically, the stars should always be in the upper left, your flag is currently hung backwards. Fecht on brothers
Seeing you spar in jeans has me very worried! That rapier looks kinda short as well, definitely not the 130cm of my HF armoury.
Super stretchy jeans
This is the economy rapier from Castille Armory.
I think it would be realistic if it would simulate a fight to the death. A rapier can get first blood much faster but unless it hits some important artery is superfecial and the other csn double and kill the rapierist
That's what happened a lot in this video. You would get stuck with a point but it's not going to incapacitate you right away. You could still land a death blow
@@ludusferocia8696 I was only meaning there is no point in counting doubles at all.
Fighting against the rapier seems to negate most of the katana's edge, forcing you to use just the tip of the blade, making the katana into a thick short rapier. Not a happy place to be!
The rapier user doesn't have a left-hand dagger, as he typically would - so he's essentially fighting 1-handed against a 2-handed opponent. 🤨
And despite having that *huge* disadvantage he still comes out ahead 😜
Also, both have armored gloves, which eliminates the rapier's critical advantage in being able to easily attack the opponent's hands (...since the katana has awful hand protection), while the katana cant' retaliate due to the rapier's superior complex hilt.
This is free sparring, not an actual dual to main or kill so of course they're wearing gloves. The point of this sort of sparring is to *pretend* that you're not armored at all, while wearing your PPE to stay safe.
Also, yes, most of the time a rapier was used with an off-hand dagger, but not always, it depended on the person and the circumstance.
Reconstructed kenjutsu system.......
You should do katana vs an athletic person with a stick.
I'm not sure whether I understood correctly, but did you say that fights rapier vs katana wouldn't have happened historically? Because they certainly did, and we have records thereof.
I actually did not know that. Very interesting
@@ludusferocia8696 the Portuguese were a significant presence in 16th-17th c. Japan, and we have records of several battles and armed clashes between them and the Japanese. Reportedly there were also instances of duels, so it's highly likely that historically some rapier fencers did face off against katana users.
@@harnischfechter I only know of 2 different Portuguese accounts of armed clashes, both on Japanese soil, but they are not very descriptive.
Can you be so kind to point to these accounts you’re referring to? I’ve had a really hard time finding them.
@@harnischfechter armed portuguese people were almost exclusively from the navy, where all sorts of shorter curved blades were prevalent.
The rapier is the better sword tbh, but the way of using a katana is superior to the way of using a rapier. Especially if you aren't familiar with how they are used.
Most of the time, it depends on the fighter. But in this case, it depends on the context. In armor, the katana will have an advantage. Without armor? The rapier will most likely win. But if both warriors are dedicated, chances are both will die. Rapiers are more lethal due to their reach and thrusting-oriented nature. Katanas can incapacitate easier as they have a more percussive cut and can easily take out limbs. Even if a fatal thrust is delivered by the rapier, a truly dedicated katana user (or any cut and thrust sword), could take the stab and deliver a nasty counter.
@@ludusferocia8696 definitely and being that the "katana" or really any of the curved japanese swords are intended for evading the opponents attack altogether and countering with a cut, or even a stab to the more open parts of the body. The more sturdy swords like a tachi could handle some direct "sword fighting" but it's still not meant to be used that way. And a katana just really can't handle direct sword fighting. Especially of the time period katanas were very cheaply made from poor materials.
@@ludusferocia8696 and like I mentioned if you have no idea how the Japanese used swords it would be extremely awkward to oppose and nearly impossible to predict. So even with the much less well made sword it'd be mighty hard for some knight out of Europe with a long sword to defeat a samurai in a 1 on 1 swordfight.
So, a katana specialist against a longsword practitioner with a light, thin rapier? OK, how about a rapier specialist with a battle rapier, like the LK Chen Saxony rapier? Modern rapiers are too light and short for a historically accurate comparison.
bare hands vs m4
I don't know that repair looked a little short, mines short and it's 40 inches of blade,
My katana is long at 30 inches,those two look equal
Rapier is NOT as strong as Europeans say they are.
Historically it is proven. Magellan and his crew got killed in a sword fight with a Tribe of LapuLapu in the Philippines. Kampilan a sword used by Lapulapu is even shorter than a katana.
I can assure you a short sword vs a rapier with opponents of equal skill lose every single time.
Im confused, why make this video without 2 respected professionals of the craft ? Neither of you study the katana or the rapier right ? Isn't this a misrepresentation of the vs sparring? 🤔
Very p00r rapierist.
We are sparring very often rapier vs katana and rapier vs saber. If rapierist is rly good its absolute overkill (like 10:0 for rapier). If we are using rapier with maine gauche then its total annihilation of katana guy.
Katana is a 2 handed sword and must be tested against an European long sword
A lot a bad, very bad hits from the fighter with the rapier.
The problem with a weapon that does not have a lot of energy in the cut is that the target, the force behind the cut, the part of the blade that does the cutting and as always the edge alignment need to be very, vey good for the rapier to cut well. On two occasions where the presenter judges the result as a double in fact the Rapier didn't do anything since it was actually a hit with the flat of the blade against the forehead. Most other cuts where very, very weak. Event if the forehead was cut, so what, the forehead is a very strong bone and for a good reason.
Do not make the mistake of simply saying well the head it the premium target and a best target for a "light" hitting weapon. "Tag playing" can be done with a Longsword if the target is the head but not with a Riaper, the hit needs to be good, the egged needs to be well aligned or else it's all weatsed. You cannot treat the head there everything is encased in a bone cage as you would the neck, the head is not an easy target for light hitting weapon at all.
Head cuts from rapiers historically ended fights quite effectively. It may not have incapacitated or killed someone, but it often rendered them combat ineffective or unwilling. The flat hits, I'll agree on. But being that many rapiers can actually cut very effectively, even small snap cuts to the forehead can be fight enders.
@@ludusferocia8696 Yes, I agree that cuts to the head can end fights very effectively even do they might not be ultimately fatal.
I hope I didn't come off as too critic in my previous comment.
My point was that dependent on the exact type of a rapier used and the specific target, the cut will need to be a good one and with adequate force to have effect. I would assert that for most common types of Rapiers (civilian types), that renders "snap cuts" (light force) not that effective on targets that are protected with strong and thick bones like the head (forehead). I agree that judging what kills after some time, what gets someone out of a fight immediately and what can take effect after a few minutes is difficult and based on many specific circumstances.
But based on my own life experience including one where a blade was drawn and broken ribs and many bruises where a result, the body can and is well able to continue fighting in the presence of many none internal/critical injuries as long as the main organs are not damaged.
Wow, what an entirely useless video. It is clear the the person with the katana has no skill in using it. Given that, what value is drawn from watching a video in which the participants have no actual skill in the weapon they are using (at least one of them)? About as useful as watching 2 moneys beat each other with mops.
Damn man. I can physically feel your fedora through this comment. But I did happen to notice that you have refrained from posting your own masterful fencing videos.
@@ludusferocia8696 Regardless of whether or not I have videos of me fencing, does not invalidate my point. You have absolutely no skill in the katana.
Yeah... it wasn't much better the second time you said it...it just makes your comment a little hard to take seriously is all. To show us how it's done, I'm always open to learning
@@ludusferocia8696 he is 100% correct in both statements.
U really bad
Bad battle stance, bad footwork, no idea how to cut.
Kyu grade kendokas way better then u.
@@Aleksei_Lopatin try against rapier
Why ppl that can barely stand their feet make such videos to embarrass themselves beyond my understanding.
Can you?
@@konstantin3374 yes
@@Aleksei_Lopatin which club do you fence at?
@@konstantin3374 mostly local kendo club, im 4th dan
But also hema, larp, buhurt and other fencing events
@@Aleksei_Lopatin what triggers you then? I think guy with a rapier has good enough footwork to be in videos.
This rapier is a bit too short for that fighter's size and that katana is way longer than any historical design I've ever seen. Anyone fighting with a katana would be wearing heavier armor than a rapierist and would rely on that and at some point, they would go in for a wide sweep against primary body mass. Then they would likely eat a face cut or a blow to the hand, which without any hand protection from a katana is game ending. This is not a great comparison to fighters who would be wielding these weapons historically. Saying some rapiers "can" cut (but it's really only a thrusting weapon), really does not give any justice to what even a glancing cut to unarmored placements does to a human being (face and hands primarily). The CNS goes sideways when you get cut significantly at any level - even by "glancing" cuts. Anyone who ever cut their finger making a salad can relate. That is the opening a rapier wielder is looking for prior to a killing pierce thrust. The rapier will win every time when skill levels are equal. Period.