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LIDR and sensational media aside - you have to agree that this thing will be ready for streets in at least 3-4 years regardless of what Musk says and have the regulators let it go on its own in at least 7-8 years, maybe even more in Europe (at least after 2030). It still drives like a drive school student on its 3rd lesson. And I am a huge Tesla Stock owner and Model 3 driver, but you can't deny the obvious.
(2: 41) There is a ONE WAY sign on the right of the screen pointing to the right The cross street is a one way street to the right. There is NO LEFT TURN at this intersection. (2:43) There are no double yellow lines on the cross road to indicate the cross road to be two way traffic. The Amazon van on the far side of the road facing to the right also indicates the cross road is a one way traffic to the right. Three parties are wrong here: 1/The Tesla driver failed to realize the cross street to be a one way street to the right with no left turn for him from the above mentioned indicators. 2/The Tesla in self-driving mode also failed to realize there was no left turn at this intersection and failed to realize the driver wanted to make a very dangerous move that would make him face oncoming traffic after the turn because the Tesla slowed down in the middle of the intersection to prepare for a left turn when an oncoming bus was blocking the left turn. It should have gone straight through the intersection with turn signals in the off position. 3/ The narrator of this video also failed to realize the cross street to be a one way street to the right with no left turn for the Tesla and argued that the Telsa was doing the right thing by stopping to prepare for an unprotected left turn when in fact the Tesla was also doing the wrong thing. The driver behind the Tesla was honking probable because he was thinking, "There is no left turn here. Just go straight and stop blocking my way." (Expletives omitted)
I would like to know if Tesla has done anything to solve the problem of the FSD Beta not being able to detect the one-way street sign at 2:41 and not being able to interpret from other indicators that the cross street was a one-way street. I would also like to see AI DRIVER take a Tesla with FSD Beta to the above location with input to go to a location on the left of the one-way street to see if it will pass the one-way street to make three left turns to go to the destination instead of making the same mistake of trying to make a left at the same intersection into a one-way street against the traffic. Ignoring the real problem that I found out is not a right attitude in developing a full self driving car with safety in mind.
@@simon6071 So I disagree and I disagree not to be disagreeable, but to correct your misconception, so you and the NTSB is wrong and the reason you’re wrong is because you have failed to understand the definition of the word Beta? I would also like to correct you in your use of the symbol abbreviation NTSB which stands for the National Traffic Safety Board, so I believe you mistakenly refer to the NTSB when you should've said the NHTSA. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is responsible for keeping people safe on America's roadways. Through enforcing vehicle performance standards and partnerships with state and local governments, NHTSA reduces deaths, injuries and economic losses from motor vehicle crashes. So what Does BETA Mean? BETA means "Pre-Release Version" and "Better." BETA is widely used to refer to a prototype of a program, mobile app or game which is considered ready for release. BETA versions are distributed to a limited number of users for testing in a real-world environment in order to check for bugs and glitches before general release. Cheers!🥂
Yield signs would revolutionise driving in the US. Huge decrease in accidents, pollution and wear on cars etc. Just put yield signs on the less busy street.
@@whowhy9023 there are 2 roundabouts within 8 miles of my house, and that's where half of the yield signs are. 20+ stop lights, 100+ stop signs. Really annoying. I live in Utah. I think people look at yield signs as you won't get in trouble for not stopping, and many people just cruise through them
12:30 I'm guessing this is the "no rolling" recall in action. When it was allowed to roll, it could afford be be more uncertain about where the stop-line actually is. The rule most places for stops signs is "sign or line" -- seems here it was erring on the side of "both!" And if they are trying to obey NHTSA's stupid rule, then they've basically bumped up the "make sure you don't disobey traffic laws" threshold for stop signs.
I also assume the system was written with rolling stops in mind, so tearing it out reveals a little about how it works behind the scenes. I bet we get v10.11 focused on new stop sign behavior before v11.
Agree, I don't know the californian laws, but it several places you are required to stop in what comes first or both signs. Usually the stop line and sign should be side by side, but this isn't aways possible. I think the law should be a little different
11:25 it seems to follow the wire shadow. My regular (EU crippled) AP often does this when there is low sun from the side and double side barriers, so the sunlight draws a line on the asphalt offset to the inside of the lane. Car starts driving like drunk switching between the actual paint and the sunlight...
For clarity, it's not the EU. It's the UN in Geneva, specifically the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe and their 'Working Party on Automated/Autonomous and Connected Vehicles (GRVA)'.
@@JustA.Person rather arbitrary and non intuitive (and sometimes dangerous) limits and rules. E.g "the car must not exceed 0.3 g lateral acceleration". Or the ruleset about lane changes, that basically says, once the driver commands a lane change, the car must execute it almost immediately and must not take longer than 5 seconds to do the maneuver. I think the rule says nothing how to react if the next lane is occupied...
Your comments about that disgusting CNBC hit piece by the jerk who claims to be a Tesla supporter (he's obviously NOT) are totally spot-on ... we couldn't agree more with your analysis and in fact, we are protesting by refusing to ever watch CNBC again and have strongly encouraged our family and friends to do the same - shame on them!! I also love your final comment after reviewing the positives and negatives of 10.10.2 (which I concur on your analysis and comments) - you said, "The reason the FUD is so intense right now is because Tesla is getting pretty dang close!" - exactly!!!!
I've heard enough from several content creators to the effect that CNBC frequently runs hit pieces for the benefit of short sellers, particularly on Bitcoin, Tesla, Gamestop, and others. If I come across a CNBS reporting and they say it's "bad news" for something, I just assume it's all false.
I'm not a big fan of having fsd cars on the road, some people just don't pay enough attention ( I do think this guy does). That being said, it could do a lot better if your roads weren't designed by what seems to be a toddler. So much places in this video look like they are made specifically to be confusing :/ Also the stop sign locations are piss poor!
Driving in the UK the whole rolling stop recall was funny to watch. "You can't break the law", "It's how people drive", "So you support bad drivers?". While in the UK, everything is a yield/give way. I've very very rarely seen a stop sign here. They're at least honest that that is actually how people drive.
Also this logic that obeying Traffic Laws should be the highest priority for autonomous Cars leads to AVs being legally required to run over people in some cases, which is bonkers... (example case: Car drives in the dark and suddenly a dark clothed Person appears on the Road. Car brakes instantly, but its not enough to stop in time, there is another Car to the right and it can under no circumstate swerve over the divider line to the left, even if there is no opposing Traffic. The only choice remaining is to run over that Person....)
At 14:32 luckily, for better or for worse, most signs are warnings or safety requirements. Since the humans are just human, there will always be mistakes made with signs. That's not even mentioning signs spinning or being tampered with. And the reason I say luckily is because FSD will be more careful than necessary which may be inconsiderate to other drivers, but safer for both pedestrians, other vehicles and the inhabitants of the Tesla.
I recently had a discussion with another guy here in Germany about the California Stop behavior. He was rather adamant about having to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. However, the big difference is, as you noted, the overuse of stop signs in the US. In Germany, they are only installed at particularly dangerous crossings. Everywhere else, there is no sign (invoking default right-before-left rule) or a give-way sign (at intersections with a main road). I agree with him, in Germany, my style is, I drive up to the stop line, concentrating on the stop line, not really watching the cross traffic until I've come to a complete stop right at the stop line (I've never seen a stop sign without a stop line, it suspect it's against the regulation, or maybe they can't enforce the stop if there is no line), then check for cross traffic, then proceed. Basically, I don't care if there is cross traffic, as I need to come to a complete stop at that specific line anyway. Maybe in the next update, it will decide to stop at the stop line if there is one, otherwise stop at the stop sign (if there is a cross street behind the sign?!), but not at both.
@@marcusbiller867 You're delusional. It'll be out this year. Elon said he would be "shocked" if it wasn't out by the end of this year. And this is why they're now focusing so hard on their humanoid robot.
@@varlunmulland3992 hahaha, "Elon" said it will be ready in 2018. Dude, I drive a Tesla, trust, I will be "shocked" if they even have something workable ready for US validation before 2025. But come back and remind me in December, I will be here.
@@marcusbiller867 "others" rely on lidar and geofencing. Lidar doesn't even work in the slightest of rain or fog so how will that work? its also more expensive and complex
@@reahs4815 others use multiple sensors, lidar, radar and cameras. actually tesla has by far the most problems with rain and fog, because of their overly reliance on cameras
Thanks- your videos are always the gold standard! Thanks so much 👍 P.S. Here in Australia, 🇦🇺 there’s a good chance of a ticket if you roll through a stop sign, and almost certainly if a cop is actually observing you. However I’ve also driven in California and am well aware that it’s normal. All the “hype” about it was complete FUD.
I vicariously drive through you aiD. Thank you for your service, as I patiently wait for my FSD beta with a 98/99 cumulative safety score. Great video and commentary!
Those were really good edge case examples! I found the sim video interesting at 3:25 where it showed a protected left turn green arrow, yet oncoming traffic apparently also had a green - seems like a bug in the matrix.
All I can say after watching your videos that I am grateful you guys are out there as testers and I'm looking forward for the next update on my model 3 but I will be very patient as I know that this is a complex project. And those of us who are watching and waiting are grateful to those of you who are doing this job.
Something very neat that you showed is how it had the 'merge point' determined so far back and before it had even started to indicate, and sure enough, it merge into a gap that was there between other traffic accelerating around you. Very nice to see! I think for the stop sign logic, causing it to stop too soon and creep slowly, or stop then creep half way into the intersection, these feel like dumb hardcoded logic issues. I'd imagine their logic doesn't allow the car to continue until it can see x meters in each direction at a stop sign, for it stopping too short, I imagine any lane line near a stop sign is seen as the 'stop' line, then it follows that same 'creep until we can see x distance' logic. At least that's what it feels like to me. :) Excited to see more 'Code 2.0' as they move logic like that over to a neural network, though I do believe that with better hardcoded logic it could be much improved too. Edge cases are going to be a nightmare for Autopilot unfortunately. Take for example somewhere I drove recently here in the UK, I wanted to turn right and there was a straight and left lane, no right lane. When the light changed, it switched to a forward arrow not a green, so I waited. Eventually, I got flashed by the car behind me who wanted to go straight, after all, there's no right turn lane. When should you go in this situation? Technically, it's not a full green, only for straight, but would it ever go green? - Situations like this are going to have to force the car to 'break the law' it would seem.
lol I was sitting here like "it was a right turn. you can go even if you only have a green light" then I remembered that the UK drives on the left. although while I don't know the rules in the UK I would think you can turn right even with only a green light and not an arrow if there is no oncoming traffic (or at least that's how it is in the US [when turning left ofc])
Then the FSD driver should take over on these edge cases, it's his car, his responsibility and final decision. This "teaches" the FSD how "this" particular driver will handle these situations anyway with or without FSD... just "tap" on the brakes to take over the intersection - to roll or not to roll...
You are the best tester out of all these Other beta people. your voice and camera are way better than all other beta TH-camrs. Also watching Bay Area traffic is much more enjoyable than NY traffic or the middle of nowhere in the Midwest.
Another fantastic video thank you. The additional insight you provide about what you think is happening in the software is really valuable! Video length is perfect and really appreciate the effort of cutting in relevant clips then analysing them rather than showing one long drive.
In Italy we have a sign that allows you to roll the stop sign. Instead of using stop signs, in a lot of situations where there is less danger and the streets have good visuals, we use a sign that could be translated as “Give way”. That means that you have to give way to other vehicles at the intersection but if you see that nobody is coming you can roll the sign without stopping the vehicle.
Your the best AI! Great video as always, I wish you would make more😀. I wish I had the same level of experience you have had, besides 10.6, it has been a rough V10 go for me. Lots and lots of phantom braking, FSD loves to stop at round-a-bouts, and get stuck in the actual round-a-bout. I have been noticing a settle improvement in terms of confidence with turns every minor version update. I does not get as stuck in unprotected right or left turns. Lastly, I hope that FSD team works a little more on yield traffic control situation in the future.
You’re by far the best FSD beta user and reviewer out there. Great editing packed full of information, that is always great to watch. You give a real understanding of the beta and not some sort of terminator ai fear mongering. It’s a shame more people can’t be exposed to your videos.
Got ticketed once for running a red light even tho i had evidence i was over the white line. Where I'm at the regs say the intersection starts at the end of the curb regardless of markings. Incidentally i found out my areas regs say one will not enter the intersection and linger, BUT traffic school teaches to enter the intersection to "reserve" your spot. It was DMV ran and in person class.
Yea, USA is a mess with all these stop signs. It would be interesting if someone calculated how much fuel is wasted because of all these. Here in the UK, roundabouts are so much more efficient.
In the UK it's great, outside of towns you rarely stop, it's just roundabout after roundabout. 'Most' people indicate properly, meaning it's quite easy to know people's intentions and allow roundabouts to 'flow' well. The 'All way stop' is a US thing that baffles me the most to be honest. Why not always have one direction with right of way? :)
@@VoxelLoop Often it seems that one fatal crash turns a two way stop to a 4-way in the USA. This will be even more ridiculous when autonomous becomes the norm, maybe then we'll get smarter about it.
My state (Wisconsin) has finally taken literal lessons from the UK and started converting most rural intersections from 4-way stops to roundabouts. It's great. There's one last annoying 4-way stop 1.5 miles away from me that still gets backed up. Looking forward to that one getting converted next year!
@@MattelAquarius We've seen a LOT more roundabouts in my modest size town (120k population) in farther N. Cali too. Much welcomed and after a few yrs even the slow to learn have become accustomed to them.
It is soo interesting to watch you driving with FSD. Thank you so much for showing all people in the world ( who are watching your youtube videos ) how it feels to put your trust into a robot on 4 wheels to bring you from point A to point B by fully self driving Tesla. I am very sure that software engineers will bring this software to a point where other countries also allow full self driving ( betas ). Right at the moment it is unthinkable to use the Tesla FSD Beta in Germany. Our Government is very cautious in regards of self driving systems. Right now ( as far as i know ) Mercedes is the only car company which is allowed to test something similar ( but only on the Autobahn and at speeds below 60 km/h ) The Autobahn is a Freeway / Motorway/ Highway with minimum 2 lanes in each driving direction and a massive crash barrier to separate the traffic in the opposite direction and in some ( few ) areas even without any speed restriction. Compared to Teslas self driving abilities the Mercedes system is ridiculously inferior. It is only handling the stop and go trafiic situation on Autobahn and still not very confidence inspiring.
i do suspect pulling the rolling stops out impacted stop sign performance. I would assume that will be worked out though fairly quickly in future releases. Excellent video. Thanks!
If it's safe to roll a stop based on the parameters chosen by Tesla, then Tesla should make a case to the NHTSA and whoever else and have the law amended. To me the problem with rolling stops is that the driver is focused on incoming cars from the left often disregarding pedestrians trying to cross from the right.
Completely agree. Almost no one comes to a complete stop when they don't have to. Its a good example of enforcing the rule for the rules sake not because it actually has a greater safety impact.
Here in North Carolina, one of our friends got a ticket for not fully stopping at a stop sign. If you do rolling stop at a stop sign when a police car is present, you might get ticketed.
Another nice presentation. Your post drive commentary benefits from better sound quality, better analysis and not dividing your attention between driving and commenting. I definitely like how FSD is quite careful of pedestrians and cyclists.
Love your coverage...truth, honesty, objectivity as opposed to the coverage by these irresponsible mainstream media. Really enjoy you. Watch every episode.
That unprotected left rule is interesting. Where I live, you put yourself into the intersection so that if traffic is very heavy, at least one person makes it through the turn. If you are waiting at a red light and it turns green, you have to wait for the people already in the intersection to clear.
The first instance, when he says the car wants to make a left. Look closely, that's a one way street that wouldn't allow a left turn! He's getting honked at because it looks like he's trying to turn left and go the wrong way.
That’s interesting, in Bavaria Germany I’ve noticed stop signs are installed way less and only on intersection where it’s is actually dangerous if you don’t do a full stop
Thanks for another thoughtful and interesting FSD Beta video. Totally agree with your take on the rolling stop. It was human like. My only suggestion if it ever does come back, is add a toggle so end user can enable or disable it. Since every one is different. LOL, how many people rolled those stop signs!!! Taylor Ooga Booga is an absolute tool. He is obviously biased and has vested interests in competitors. Love your channel. Bring on V11!!!!!!
13m16 - the answer might be the side camera is way back on the door pillar - it doesn't have cross traffic cameras at the front bumper. It can't see very well round corners at 4 way crossings. It needs to creep forward as a result. The widest forward facing camera is only about 140 degrees so can't see down the side roads.
I got a ticket on my motorcycle for rolling through a stop sign when I was young, that was over 40 years ago, so began my hatred for this kind of bureaucracy
Great videos, your tests are AMAZING!! Can you also work on uploading the following edge cases? Ugly construction. Cones being rare, not very straight, weaving you between lanes and oncoming traffic painted lanes, you name it. I live in a heavy construction zone and the construction edge cases are crazy!! Police or someone manually directing traffic at intersections, traffic lights being out/flashing red, etc. How does FSD react to an expected lit intersection that's bypassed by human directions? Obstructions on the road. Trucks drop crap on the highway all the time where I live! Jetskis, ladders, mattresses, bikes, bumpers, a transmission (that one was scary), you name it! I have to disengage EAP all the time to avoid uncommon road hazards. I can't wait to get FSD and test @all these crazy scenarios!! I run into them everyday and bug report them, but have no idea if Tesla engineers care about EAP submitted data anymore lol! You and many others have uploaded "clean" versions of the above scenarios, but I have a hard time believing that traffic cones or boxes as obstructions would be treated the same as car body parts like a bumper, a mattress, bikes, etc. I've only seen a handful of traffic cones or boxes on the highway as debris, but tons of uncommon/unusual/confusing stuff over the years.
Firstly, I have the beta, same version as you, and agree with your overall assessment of it in general. Thanks for doing your part to debunk the FUD! A minor nitpick - The DMV's "Handbook" is not the law, and is not the place you should go to for the source of truth. In fact, it advises you to do some things that are outright illegal. That handbook advises drivers to avoid changing lanes, and makes no mention of the legal requirements in the CA Vehicle code requiring vehicles to move over when not passing. The closest section I can find in the Vehicle code is 22526(a): Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles from either side. Your pretty frustrated at the 4 way stop: If you had gone a second earlier, and the guy with the dog had decided to cross, you would've had to stop in the middle of the intersection. I think I would've waited like FSD did to make sure the guy with the dog wasn't going to cross into your path.
I did the *exact* same thing as you (but didn't record). At a 4 way intersection and watched it for a few days as I go through it about 8 times a day. Not *once* did I see a car fully stop their wheels. And this intersection is in front of an elementary school. LOL. Now with 10.10.2, I'm seeing cars cut in front of me when it's my turn to go. NOT ideal.
I had the lane misselection and bad stop handling issue severely with 10.10.2 on my X, but after recalibrating cameras, it has been a lot better. Initially, it was a huge regression vs. 10.8, but now it is great.
2:13 this guy could have explained that Tesla's FSD is affordable but not perfect. It only uses cameras, and other solutions that include radar and lidar gather more information about the surroundings for the AI to use. Using lidar also allows you to make a detailed map of a city for example with really expensive but detailed lidar gear. Then install a cheaper lidar on the production car. Those cars can then use their base lidar to position themselves in the detailed lidar map and know more about its surrounding that way. Remember regular cameras are bad at night, in bad weather, when facing bright sunshine etc (just like our eyes are) and lidar/radar provide much better performance in those conditions!
Totally agree with you on the poor stop sign performance. My own experience with 10.10 and two way stop signs has been very abysmal. It constantly wants to go when there is still crossing traffic
It’s not a matter of over used stop signs or roundabouts. It’s the unpredictability of drivers. You have to account for speed control through neighborhoods and traffic flow from joining streets. There is a lot of math and planning into traffic flow. Most of the controls come from the history of accidents. Limitations had to be placed on drivers to stop these situations from constantly occurring. The introduction of fsd overtime will eliminate many of these restrictions controls and limitations.
I think that step back and weird behaviour at Stop signs is due to the fact that the California Stop was extensively tested and trained (I guess everyone enabled it) and now it's forced to use the full stop variant, which has *not* been trained all that much.
Great video of your experiences on this beta. So far this update has been much better in smoothness and less phantom breaking but still does some weird things.
I really enjoy your videos with the curated examples - for me, much more informative and entertaining than raw footage. Also I enjoy seeing the testing on streets I’m familiar with! Thanks and keep up the good work.
I've never seen it anywhere in the USA, but I think our equivalent would be yield signs. The person facing the yield sign is supposed to give way, but a lot of people seem to ignore the sign or apparently don't know what it means.
@@6681096 Just found it, the one with a triangle looks like the European one except we don't have the text (I also saw a version without a triangle, just a text in a 45 degree rotated yellow-colored square). For me it is strange to hear "people don't know what it is", as, beside driving with a police person (or equivalent), we also have to pass a exam to get the license, so we have to learn all signs and rules. Isn't it similar there in the US?
Thanks for the rant on the rolling stop fiasco. The idiot in the FSD clip is a joke and obviously biased to trash FSD and make it look dangerous. Sick of these FUD journalists who don't bother to do decent research.
Thank you for finally honest video, also didn’t know some “youtubers” are in conflict of interest but obviously… and also great video that you let driving assistant solve the whole situations . Most youtubers take over after 1 second of hesitating of the system . What about bad weather ? How different it is during the fog ? Heavy rain ?
Thanks. Great analysis. I hadn't noted in my 10.10.2 release the lane change vehicles turning blue. I will have to check that next test drive. I agree, it's getting better, and have some things to go. Tesla is making amazing improvements. On the NHTSB desire to prevent rolling stops is akin to preventing any vehicle with Cruise Control to ever exceed the speed limit. Technically, it is against the law to speed even 1 mph over the speed limit. Unfortunately, common sense doesn't enter their domain.
What did you think of Dave Lee's interview with Cruise? You should be interviewed by Dave or Rob, Tesla Daily. Love your approach. You are very nearly one of a kind.
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LIDR and sensational media aside - you have to agree that this thing will be ready for streets in at least 3-4 years regardless of what Musk says and have the regulators let it go on its own in at least 7-8 years, maybe even more in Europe (at least after 2030). It still drives like a drive school student on its 3rd lesson. And I am a huge Tesla Stock owner and Model 3 driver, but you can't deny the obvious.
(2: 41) There is a ONE WAY sign on the right of the screen pointing to the right
The cross street is a one way street to the right. There is NO LEFT TURN at this intersection.
(2:43) There are no double yellow lines on the cross road to indicate the cross road to be two way traffic.
The Amazon van on the far side of the road facing to the right also indicates the cross road is a one way traffic to the right.
Three parties are wrong here:
1/The Tesla driver failed to realize the cross street to be a one way street to the right with no left turn for him from the above mentioned indicators.
2/The Tesla in self-driving mode also failed to realize there was no left turn at this intersection and failed to realize the driver wanted to make a very dangerous move that would make him face oncoming traffic after the turn because the Tesla slowed down in the middle of the intersection to prepare for a left turn when an oncoming bus was blocking the left turn. It should have gone straight through the intersection with turn signals in the off position.
3/ The narrator of this video also failed to realize the cross street to be a one way street to the right with no left turn for the Tesla and argued that the Telsa was doing the right thing by stopping to prepare for an unprotected left turn when in fact the Tesla was also doing the wrong thing.
The driver behind the Tesla was honking probable because he was thinking, "There is no left turn here. Just go straight and stop blocking my way." (Expletives omitted)
GOOGLE: NTSB says Tesla’s Full Self-Driving beta is ‘misleading & irresponsible’ ahead of wider release
I agree with the correct opinion of the NTSB.
I would like to know if Tesla has done anything to solve the problem of the FSD Beta not being able to detect the one-way street sign at 2:41 and not being able to interpret from other indicators that the cross street was a one-way street.
I would also like to see AI DRIVER take a Tesla with FSD Beta to the above location with input to go to a location on the left of the one-way street to see if it will pass the one-way street to make three left turns to go to the destination instead of making the same mistake of trying to make a left at the same intersection into a one-way street against the traffic. Ignoring the real problem that I found out is not a right attitude in developing a full self driving car with safety in mind.
@@simon6071 So I disagree and I disagree not to be disagreeable, but to correct your misconception, so you and the NTSB is wrong and the reason you’re wrong is because you have failed to understand the definition of the word Beta?
I would also like to correct you in your use of the symbol abbreviation NTSB which stands for the National Traffic Safety Board, so I believe you mistakenly refer to the NTSB when you should've said the NHTSA.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is responsible for keeping people safe on America's roadways. Through enforcing vehicle performance standards and partnerships with state and local governments, NHTSA reduces deaths, injuries and economic losses from motor vehicle crashes.
So what Does BETA Mean?
BETA means "Pre-Release Version" and "Better."
BETA is widely used to refer to a prototype of a program, mobile app or game which is considered ready for release. BETA versions are distributed to a limited number of users for testing in a real-world environment in order to check for bugs and glitches before general release. Cheers!🥂
You are still the best tester out there. Thank you.
100% agree. - excellent visuals and commentary.
100%
Yup, wish he and James Douma could have couple hours of conversation. That'd be a treat.
Man I wish your channel was bigger. By far the best of them all. Very clear, concise, and informative.
Yes I totally agree.
Yield signs would revolutionise driving in the US. Huge decrease in accidents, pollution and wear on cars etc.
Just put yield signs on the less busy street.
You guys don't have yield signs?
@@Joso997 California doesn’t really use them. It’s 4 way stops everywhere. Completely brain dead.
@@whowhy9023 there are 2 roundabouts within 8 miles of my house, and that's where half of the yield signs are. 20+ stop lights, 100+ stop signs. Really annoying. I live in Utah. I think people look at yield signs as you won't get in trouble for not stopping, and many people just cruise through them
@@whowhy9023 Here in germany its the complete opposite. A ton of yield signs and almost no stop signs (at least where I come from).
@@JackONeil12 in France too ! Putting stop signs everywhere is really American 🤭
12:30 I'm guessing this is the "no rolling" recall in action. When it was allowed to roll, it could afford be be more uncertain about where the stop-line actually is. The rule most places for stops signs is "sign or line" -- seems here it was erring on the side of "both!" And if they are trying to obey NHTSA's stupid rule, then they've basically bumped up the "make sure you don't disobey traffic laws" threshold for stop signs.
I also assume the system was written with rolling stops in mind, so tearing it out reveals a little about how it works behind the scenes. I bet we get v10.11 focused on new stop sign behavior before v11.
@@devindykstra Maybe, but if v11 improves the AI overall, there may be no need for a particular improvement before that
Agree, I don't know the californian laws, but it several places you are required to stop in what comes first or both signs.
Usually the stop line and sign should be side by side, but this isn't aways possible.
I think the law should be a little different
11:25 it seems to follow the wire shadow. My regular (EU crippled) AP often does this when there is low sun from the side and double side barriers, so the sunlight draws a line on the asphalt offset to the inside of the lane. Car starts driving like drunk switching between the actual paint and the sunlight...
For clarity, it's not the EU. It's the UN in Geneva, specifically the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe and their 'Working Party on Automated/Autonomous and Connected Vehicles (GRVA)'.
@@nickfosterxx UN-ECE to be precise, yes.
This makes a lot of sense. Good catch
What's worse about the EU version?
@@JustA.Person rather arbitrary and non intuitive (and sometimes dangerous) limits and rules. E.g "the car must not exceed 0.3 g lateral acceleration". Or the ruleset about lane changes, that basically says, once the driver commands a lane change, the car must execute it almost immediately and must not take longer than 5 seconds to do the maneuver.
I think the rule says nothing how to react if the next lane is occupied...
Thanks!
I have 10.10.2 also. I took it into Austin rush hour yesterday. It merged the best it has ever done. It's not there yet, but it's getting better.
Your comments about that disgusting CNBC hit piece by the jerk who claims to be a Tesla supporter (he's obviously NOT) are totally spot-on ... we couldn't agree more with your analysis and in fact, we are protesting by refusing to ever watch CNBC again and have strongly encouraged our family and friends to do the same - shame on them!! I also love your final comment after reviewing the positives and negatives of 10.10.2 (which I concur on your analysis and comments) - you said, "The reason the FUD is so intense right now is because Tesla is getting pretty dang close!" - exactly!!!!
I've heard enough from several content creators to the effect that CNBC frequently runs hit pieces for the benefit of short sellers, particularly on Bitcoin, Tesla, Gamestop, and others. If I come across a CNBS reporting and they say it's "bad news" for something, I just assume it's all false.
You are the best at the proper amount of commentary imho.
Great video.
14:38 that stop sign is definitely rotated plus possibly located WRONG, that could fool a person new to that road.
Agreed
I'm not a big fan of having fsd cars on the road, some people just don't pay enough attention ( I do think this guy does). That being said, it could do a lot better if your roads weren't designed by what seems to be a toddler. So much places in this video look like they are made specifically to be confusing :/
Also the stop sign locations are piss poor!
Driving in the UK the whole rolling stop recall was funny to watch. "You can't break the law", "It's how people drive", "So you support bad drivers?". While in the UK, everything is a yield/give way. I've very very rarely seen a stop sign here. They're at least honest that that is actually how people drive.
Also this logic that obeying Traffic Laws should be the highest priority for autonomous Cars leads to AVs being legally required to run over people in some cases, which is bonkers... (example case: Car drives in the dark and suddenly a dark clothed Person appears on the Road. Car brakes instantly, but its not enough to stop in time, there is another Car to the right and it can under no circumstate swerve over the divider line to the left, even if there is no opposing Traffic. The only choice remaining is to run over that Person....)
Thank man, I was just today wondering about your next vid. Awesome! Much appreciated. Love your view on this.
man your quality is so good the colors realy pop in they fsd overlay!
At 11:24 is it trying to go around the shadows? Does it think those are lines or objects?
At 14:32 luckily, for better or for worse, most signs are warnings or safety requirements. Since the humans are just human, there will always be mistakes made with signs. That's not even mentioning signs spinning or being tampered with. And the reason I say luckily is because FSD will be more careful than necessary which may be inconsiderate to other drivers, but safer for both pedestrians, other vehicles and the inhabitants of the Tesla.
I think it may have been perceiving the shadows as the edge of an unmarked/dirt road, leading to the path planner following that
I recently had a discussion with another guy here in Germany about the California Stop behavior. He was rather adamant about having to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. However, the big difference is, as you noted, the overuse of stop signs in the US. In Germany, they are only installed at particularly dangerous crossings. Everywhere else, there is no sign (invoking default right-before-left rule) or a give-way sign (at intersections with a main road).
I agree with him, in Germany, my style is, I drive up to the stop line, concentrating on the stop line, not really watching the cross traffic until I've come to a complete stop right at the stop line (I've never seen a stop sign without a stop line, it suspect it's against the regulation, or maybe they can't enforce the stop if there is no line), then check for cross traffic, then proceed. Basically, I don't care if there is cross traffic, as I need to come to a complete stop at that specific line anyway.
Maybe in the next update, it will decide to stop at the stop line if there is one, otherwise stop at the stop sign (if there is a cross street behind the sign?!), but not at both.
Haha that is the most German way of thinking, no offense, you guys are great
"The reason the FUD is getting so intense is because of how close Tesla is getting." 100% this right here!
It is not even close though. At least 3 if not 4 years out. Way further than the other guys, but still.
@@marcusbiller867 You're delusional. It'll be out this year. Elon said he would be "shocked" if it wasn't out by the end of this year. And this is why they're now focusing so hard on their humanoid robot.
@@varlunmulland3992 hahaha, "Elon" said it will be ready in 2018. Dude, I drive a Tesla, trust, I will be "shocked" if they even have something workable ready for US validation before 2025. But come back and remind me in December, I will be here.
@@marcusbiller867 "others" rely on lidar and geofencing. Lidar doesn't even work in the slightest of rain or fog so how will that work? its also more expensive and complex
@@reahs4815 others use multiple sensors, lidar, radar and cameras. actually tesla has by far the most problems with rain and fog, because of their overly reliance on cameras
You videos are so entertaining and ongoing while still being so informative end useful! You're the best!
Another great non biased video. You tell it like it is. Thank you!! Hope your vacation was wonderful!
Thanks- your videos are always the gold standard! Thanks so much 👍
P.S. Here in Australia, 🇦🇺 there’s a good chance of a ticket if you roll through a stop sign, and almost certainly if a cop is actually observing you. However I’ve also driven in California and am well aware that it’s normal. All the “hype” about it was complete FUD.
I've never seen a VPN ad that was this good...
Amazing video as always! Keep it up man!
I vicariously drive through you aiD. Thank you for your service, as I patiently wait for my FSD beta with a 98/99 cumulative safety score. Great video and commentary!
amazing take, you are one of my absolute fav FSD beta testers, with great editing and superb commentary
By far the best fsd reviews! No self conscious talking, no filler, nothing but well planned and well executed review content. Thank you.
3:23 I was like.. Ok damn.. a cybertruck?? then I realised it was CGI. Crazy realistic
Those were really good edge case examples! I found the sim video interesting at 3:25 where it showed a protected left turn green arrow, yet oncoming traffic apparently also had a green - seems like a bug in the matrix.
All I can say after watching your videos that I am grateful you guys are out there as testers and I'm looking forward for the next update on my model 3 but I will be very patient as I know that this is a complex project. And those of us who are watching and waiting are grateful to those of you who are doing this job.
I find you to be the most fair and reasonable with the best narration of any videos about FSD.
Thanks
Emotionally this is really what I needed after oogan’s tweets
Something very neat that you showed is how it had the 'merge point' determined so far back and before it had even started to indicate, and sure enough, it merge into a gap that was there between other traffic accelerating around you. Very nice to see!
I think for the stop sign logic, causing it to stop too soon and creep slowly, or stop then creep half way into the intersection, these feel like dumb hardcoded logic issues. I'd imagine their logic doesn't allow the car to continue until it can see x meters in each direction at a stop sign, for it stopping too short, I imagine any lane line near a stop sign is seen as the 'stop' line, then it follows that same 'creep until we can see x distance' logic.
At least that's what it feels like to me. :)
Excited to see more 'Code 2.0' as they move logic like that over to a neural network, though I do believe that with better hardcoded logic it could be much improved too.
Edge cases are going to be a nightmare for Autopilot unfortunately. Take for example somewhere I drove recently here in the UK, I wanted to turn right and there was a straight and left lane, no right lane. When the light changed, it switched to a forward arrow not a green, so I waited. Eventually, I got flashed by the car behind me who wanted to go straight, after all, there's no right turn lane. When should you go in this situation? Technically, it's not a full green, only for straight, but would it ever go green? - Situations like this are going to have to force the car to 'break the law' it would seem.
lol I was sitting here like "it was a right turn. you can go even if you only have a green light" then I remembered that the UK drives on the left.
although while I don't know the rules in the UK I would think you can turn right even with only a green light and not an arrow if there is no oncoming traffic (or at least that's how it is in the US [when turning left ofc])
Then the FSD driver should take over on these edge cases, it's his car, his responsibility and final decision. This "teaches" the FSD how "this" particular driver will handle these situations anyway with or without FSD... just "tap" on the brakes to take over the intersection - to roll or not to roll...
You are the best tester out of all these Other beta people. your voice and camera are way better than all other beta TH-camrs. Also watching Bay Area traffic is much more enjoyable than NY traffic or the middle of nowhere in the Midwest.
Another fantastic video thank you. The additional insight you provide about what you think is happening in the software is really valuable! Video length is perfect and really appreciate the effort of cutting in relevant clips then analysing them rather than showing one long drive.
In Italy we have a sign that allows you to roll the stop sign. Instead of using stop signs, in a lot of situations where there is less danger and the streets have good visuals, we use a sign that could be translated as “Give way”. That means that you have to give way to other vehicles at the intersection but if you see that nobody is coming you can roll the sign without stopping the vehicle.
Your the best AI! Great video as always, I wish you would make more😀. I wish I had the same level of experience you have had, besides 10.6, it has been a rough V10 go for me. Lots and lots of phantom braking, FSD loves to stop at round-a-bouts, and get stuck in the actual round-a-bout. I have been noticing a settle improvement in terms of confidence with turns every minor version update. I does not get as stuck in unprotected right or left turns. Lastly, I hope that FSD team works a little more on yield traffic control situation in the future.
Thanks again for a great job and some well-needed balance against the fud. Appreciate all the work you put into this.
This video is exactly why I support you on Patreon.
Great video. The context you provide make your videos the best FSD videos out there imo.
Where are you AI Driver? Been waiting a month for your insights on new versions of FSD!
Life gets in the way sometimes :[ hopefully can start again soon
@@AIDRIVR worth the wait!
You’re by far the best FSD beta user and reviewer out there. Great editing packed full of information, that is always great to watch. You give a real understanding of the beta and not some sort of terminator ai fear mongering. It’s a shame more people can’t be exposed to your videos.
Thank you man, I really appreciate it!
Got ticketed once for running a red light even tho i had evidence i was over the white line. Where I'm at the regs say the intersection starts at the end of the curb regardless of markings. Incidentally i found out my areas regs say one will not enter the intersection and linger, BUT traffic school teaches to enter the intersection to "reserve" your spot. It was DMV ran and in person class.
Even in Canada, fully stopping at stop signs is the exception, regardless of the rule.
Yea, USA is a mess with all these stop signs. It would be interesting if someone calculated how much fuel is wasted because of all these. Here in the UK, roundabouts are so much more efficient.
In the UK it's great, outside of towns you rarely stop, it's just roundabout after roundabout. 'Most' people indicate properly, meaning it's quite easy to know people's intentions and allow roundabouts to 'flow' well.
The 'All way stop' is a US thing that baffles me the most to be honest. Why not always have one direction with right of way? :)
@@VoxelLoop Often it seems that one fatal crash turns a two way stop to a 4-way in the USA. This will be even more ridiculous when autonomous becomes the norm, maybe then we'll get smarter about it.
My state (Wisconsin) has finally taken literal lessons from the UK and started converting most rural intersections from 4-way stops to roundabouts. It's great. There's one last annoying 4-way stop 1.5 miles away from me that still gets backed up. Looking forward to that one getting converted next year!
@@MattelAquarius We've seen a LOT more roundabouts in my modest size town (120k population) in farther N. Cali too. Much welcomed and after a few yrs even the slow to learn have become accustomed to them.
It is soo interesting to watch you driving with FSD. Thank you so much for showing all people in the world ( who are watching your youtube videos ) how it feels to put your trust into a robot on 4 wheels to bring you from point A to point B by fully self driving Tesla.
I am very sure that software engineers will bring this software to a point where other countries also allow full self driving ( betas ). Right at the moment it is unthinkable to use the Tesla FSD Beta in Germany. Our Government is very cautious in regards of self driving systems. Right now ( as far as i know ) Mercedes is the only car company which is allowed to test something similar ( but only on the Autobahn and at speeds below 60 km/h ) The Autobahn is a Freeway / Motorway/ Highway with minimum 2 lanes in each driving direction and a massive crash barrier to separate the traffic in the opposite direction and in some ( few ) areas even without any speed restriction. Compared to Teslas self driving abilities the Mercedes system is ridiculously inferior.
It is only handling the stop and go trafiic situation on Autobahn and still not very confidence inspiring.
i do suspect pulling the rolling stops out impacted stop sign performance. I would assume that will be worked out though fairly quickly in future releases. Excellent video. Thanks!
3:20 man the cybertruck looks badass on the street
We are living in the future!
If it's safe to roll a stop based on the parameters chosen by Tesla, then Tesla should make a case to the NHTSA and whoever else and have the law amended. To me the problem with rolling stops is that the driver is focused on incoming cars from the left often disregarding pedestrians trying to cross from the right.
Completely agree. Almost no one comes to a complete stop when they don't have to. Its a good example of enforcing the rule for the rules sake not because it actually has a greater safety impact.
Here in North Carolina, one of our friends got a ticket for not fully stopping at a stop sign. If you do rolling stop at a stop sign when a police car is present, you might get ticketed.
Another nice presentation. Your post drive commentary benefits from better sound quality, better analysis and not dividing your attention between driving and commenting. I definitely like how FSD is quite careful of pedestrians and cyclists.
The best FSD Beta Content for sure. Welcome back 🙌
I find myself watching your test videos to the very end more often than for others. Good job!
Love your coverage...truth, honesty, objectivity as opposed to the coverage by these irresponsible mainstream media. Really enjoy you. Watch every episode.
Thank you for the kind words Frederic!
That unprotected left rule is interesting. Where I live, you put yourself into the intersection so that if traffic is very heavy, at least one person makes it through the turn. If you are waiting at a red light and it turns green, you have to wait for the people already in the intersection to clear.
The first instance, when he says the car wants to make a left. Look closely, that's a one way street that wouldn't allow a left turn! He's getting honked at because it looks like he's trying to turn left and go the wrong way.
11:44 No, the lane markings had problems, too, not only the path planer.
That’s interesting, in Bavaria Germany I’ve noticed stop signs are installed way less and only on intersection where it’s is actually dangerous if you don’t do a full stop
lol, CNBS. Love it
Is there ANY chance you could take it out in rain / otherwise poor weather conditions
I live in California, but I'll try!
Excellent summary of FSD beta performance with 10.10. Thanks for doing this.
Your content and commentary is very good as always!
Thanks for another thoughtful and interesting FSD Beta video. Totally agree with your take on the rolling stop. It was human like. My only suggestion if it ever does come back, is add a toggle so end user can enable or disable it. Since every one is different. LOL, how many people rolled those stop signs!!! Taylor Ooga Booga is an absolute tool. He is obviously biased and has vested interests in competitors. Love your channel. Bring on V11!!!!!!
13m16 - the answer might be the side camera is way back on the door pillar - it doesn't have cross traffic cameras at the front bumper. It can't see very well round corners at 4 way crossings. It needs to creep forward as a result. The widest forward facing camera is only about 140 degrees so can't see down the side roads.
Its cool seeing you drive familiar roads that I would take at times. Awesome video!
These videos are fascinating to watch. I would even watch a livestream of this testing.
I liked the comment about the FUD being so strong because of how close Tesla is to winning. Duh!
I got a ticket on my motorcycle for rolling through a stop sign when I was young, that was over 40 years ago, so began my hatred for this kind of bureaucracy
We miss your take on FSD…
Excellent lane planning at 0945 - much better than previously.
Need more videos from you!
Great videos, your tests are AMAZING!! Can you also work on uploading the following edge cases?
Ugly construction. Cones being rare, not very straight, weaving you between lanes and oncoming traffic painted lanes, you name it. I live in a heavy construction zone and the construction edge cases are crazy!!
Police or someone manually directing traffic at intersections, traffic lights being out/flashing red, etc. How does FSD react to an expected lit intersection that's bypassed by human directions?
Obstructions on the road. Trucks drop crap on the highway all the time where I live! Jetskis, ladders, mattresses, bikes, bumpers, a transmission (that one was scary), you name it! I have to disengage EAP all the time to avoid uncommon road hazards.
I can't wait to get FSD and test @all these crazy scenarios!! I run into them everyday and bug report them, but have no idea if Tesla engineers care about EAP submitted data anymore lol! You and many others have uploaded "clean" versions of the above scenarios, but I have a hard time believing that traffic cones or boxes as obstructions would be treated the same as car body parts like a bumper, a mattress, bikes, etc. I've only seen a handful of traffic cones or boxes on the highway as debris, but tons of uncommon/unusual/confusing stuff over the years.
I notice there is so many stop signs. Took a vacation in Germany 3 months ago and there are yield signs everywhere!
More great content! Thanks AI. And for taking the time to immerse yourself in the murky depths of the FUDVerse.
Firstly, I have the beta, same version as you, and agree with your overall assessment of it in general. Thanks for doing your part to debunk the FUD!
A minor nitpick - The DMV's "Handbook" is not the law, and is not the place you should go to for the source of truth. In fact, it advises you to do some things that are outright illegal. That handbook advises drivers to avoid changing lanes, and makes no mention of the legal requirements in the CA Vehicle code requiring vehicles to move over when not passing. The closest section I can find in the Vehicle code is 22526(a): Notwithstanding any official traffic control signal indication to proceed, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter an intersection or marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or marked crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle driven without obstructing the through passage of vehicles from either side.
Your pretty frustrated at the 4 way stop: If you had gone a second earlier, and the guy with the dog had decided to cross, you would've had to stop in the middle of the intersection. I think I would've waited like FSD did to make sure the guy with the dog wasn't going to cross into your path.
I did the *exact* same thing as you (but didn't record). At a 4 way intersection and watched it for a few days as I go through it about 8 times a day. Not *once* did I see a car fully stop their wheels. And this intersection is in front of an elementary school. LOL. Now with 10.10.2, I'm seeing cars cut in front of me when it's my turn to go. NOT ideal.
Love it, thank you. Your videos are the best fsd videos
Thank you again for your very introspective assessment and for calling out CNB....S. Outstanding.
I had the lane misselection and bad stop handling issue severely with 10.10.2 on my X, but after recalibrating cameras, it has been a lot better. Initially, it was a huge regression vs. 10.8, but now it is great.
2:13 this guy could have explained that Tesla's FSD is affordable but not perfect. It only uses cameras, and other solutions that include radar and lidar gather more information about the surroundings for the AI to use.
Using lidar also allows you to make a detailed map of a city for example with really expensive but detailed lidar gear. Then install a cheaper lidar on the production car. Those cars can then use their base lidar to position themselves in the detailed lidar map and know more about its surrounding that way.
Remember regular cameras are bad at night, in bad weather, when facing bright sunshine etc (just like our eyes are) and lidar/radar provide much better performance in those conditions!
Totally agree with you on the poor stop sign performance. My own experience with 10.10 and two way stop signs has been very abysmal. It constantly wants to go when there is still crossing traffic
Great video as always!
Can you please share data on miles per disengagements between versions? Awesome content. Amazing stuff
It’s not a matter of over used stop signs or roundabouts. It’s the unpredictability of drivers. You have to account for speed control through neighborhoods and traffic flow from joining streets. There is a lot of math and planning into traffic flow. Most of the controls come from the history of accidents. Limitations had to be placed on drivers to stop these situations from constantly occurring.
The introduction of fsd overtime will eliminate many of these restrictions controls and limitations.
Best Tesla FSD beta content per usual. 👍🏾
I think that step back and weird behaviour at Stop signs is due to the fact that the California Stop was extensively tested and trained (I guess everyone enabled it) and now it's forced to use the full stop variant, which has *not* been trained all that much.
Another great effort. Thanks.
Great video of your experiences on this beta. So far this update has been much better in smoothness and less phantom breaking but still does some weird things.
11:25 Oh my, it's confusing the power line shadows with lane markings!
I really enjoy your videos with the curated examples - for me, much more informative and entertaining than raw footage. Also I enjoy seeing the testing on streets I’m familiar with! Thanks and keep up the good work.
There is no "give way/give priority" (red triangle pointing down) sign in the US?
I've never seen it anywhere in the USA, but I think our equivalent would be yield signs.
The person facing the yield sign is supposed to give way, but a lot of people seem to ignore the sign or apparently don't know what it means.
@@6681096 Just found it, the one with a triangle looks like the European one except we don't have the text (I also saw a version without a triangle, just a text in a 45 degree rotated yellow-colored square). For me it is strange to hear "people don't know what it is", as, beside driving with a police person (or equivalent), we also have to pass a exam to get the license, so we have to learn all signs and rules. Isn't it similar there in the US?
Thanks for your videos, I highly enjoy them :)
Thanks for the rant on the rolling stop fiasco. The idiot in the FSD clip is a joke and obviously biased to trash FSD and make it look dangerous. Sick of these FUD journalists who don't bother to do decent research.
Thank you for finally honest video, also didn’t know some “youtubers” are in conflict of interest but obviously… and also great video that you let driving assistant solve the whole situations . Most youtubers take over after 1 second of hesitating of the system . What about bad weather ? How different it is during the fog ? Heavy rain ?
Thanks. Great analysis. I hadn't noted in my 10.10.2 release the lane change vehicles turning blue. I will have to check that next test drive. I agree, it's getting better, and have some things to go. Tesla is making amazing improvements.
On the NHTSB desire to prevent rolling stops is akin to preventing any vehicle with Cruise Control to ever exceed the speed limit. Technically, it is against the law to speed even 1 mph over the speed limit. Unfortunately, common sense doesn't enter their domain.
Healdsburg police department would def pull over anyone rolling a stop sign 🤣
What did you think of Dave Lee's interview with Cruise? You should be interviewed by Dave or Rob, Tesla Daily. Love your approach. You are very nearly one of a kind.
Here in South Dakota if you do a rolling stop at a stop sign like that you will get a ticket.
2 years ago all of these was not possible... Look now ! Awesome !
In New England area, 10.10.2 was a massive improvement in my experience from 10.9
Thanks for your videos! Really appreciate them.