Great video, nice to see I am over securing my headers. We build outside walls with 2x6 so right away I am going 5 1/2” wide and my default header is 8”, I normally go with a 2x8 header (so 3 2x8 with 1/2” plywood to make the beam).
This is a big help! I am enclosing my back porch. It has a 3.5” x 14 or 16” x 33’ support beam with two 4” x 4” posts spaced at 11’. My issue is its 85” from floor to beam which leaves me 5” to work with in framing two doors. Thankfully this will not be load bearing wall.
When you factor in the cost of labor it's probably cheaper than adding the stud spacers above the header needed to keep all the windows at the same height below the ceiling.
I have a 2x3 studded wall. I need to replace the door frame. Would I replace with a 2x3 rough opening or build a 2x4 door frame which I could only go with a 28 inch door. If I build a door frame with 2x3s, what width jamb size should I use? I probably could go with a 30 inch door. What is the best idea. With 2x4 frame, I would have to extend any electrical boxes and the drywall would start 1/2 inch further in the room. I'm only a homeowner not a carpenter. Thanks for any input.
What you're talking about seems to be standard on mobile homes, but you can either build your own door with a frame (or jamb) or purchase a pre-hung door and cut the frame down to size. For example if the new pre-hung frame is 4 1/2 inches wide for a 2 x 4 wall, you can cut it down to 3 1/2 inches wide or whatever you need, with a table saw or circular saw with a rip fence.
As an engineer, I can tell you that in most applications, laminated headers are preferred over single lumber. They have a higher strength rating. Depending on the specific loads involved, we also prefer laminated lumber for jack and king studs. Again, they are stronger and have less deflection under load. Good luck!
I watched a video and the instructor said always put the jack at 81 in which is the top of a door. That doesn't make sense to me if I'm using a 4 by 4 header 4A 24in height a 48-inch with window. Do you know what he was talking about?
I cannot provide structural engineering information for individual projects like yours, but most 3 foot wide windows in a loadbearing wall usually require a 4 x 4, 4 x 6 or 4 x 8. If you're not going to contact an engineer, then you might even choose to use something larger.
Great video as always! Question if I may. Exterior 2x4x15 feet long wall. Single 2x6 rafters on top. 32x36 window to frame. If I understood well, a 2x4 headers with cripples should be enough? Thank you.
THANK YOU!!! Quick question: Do I need to use a piece of plywood between 2x4 (or 2x6s) used in a built up header or can I just fill the space with insulation? I have a 1978 mobile home (single floor) that I pulled the paneling off of the exterior wall so I could drywall & attach the boxes to the studs, etc... and found that I have no jack studs around my front door. They just nailed a 2x4 into the side of the single king stud & hung the door. So, I am too small to actually remove the door & re frame the doorway. I figured if I sistered the existing king stud with another king stud, and then cut the original king stud to make it into a trim stud & popped in a header I would essentially have reframed the door correctly.. BUT what size header? I looked all over trying to find what I needed to use in silicon valley, CA to meet code & be strong enough. So for a 36" door you have a 4x4 and I can totally do that, except the way the wall is built (dropped cathedral ceiling) I have 5 1/2" to the ceiling plate & a little over 2 inches I can't get to. So whatever I use has to slide into place from the bottom and I won't be able to put in any cripple studs. So I am thinking two 2x6s but do they need a chunk of plywood between the layers or can I just use insulation to fill the void?
I've seen it done either way, but most of the time they sandwich a piece of plywood in between the two boards so that the interior and exterior wall framing lines up with them. It would be hard to install drywall over a door header that wasn't even with the face of the interior wall framing studs.
It depends on the application, but laminated headers are stronger. If load is the only concern, or the primary one, use laminate lumber like a pair of LVLs is stronger than a simple lumber “sandwich.” OTOH if heat transfer is a concern, filling the space between the lumber with an insulating material is an option, but it might require a larger header. Anytime you are dealing with a nonstandard instance, you should consult a structural engineer for your specific application. Good luck!
Yes, you would need something like a 2 x 4 at the very least. I think as a general rule of thumb I would use a 2 x 4 for anything 3 feet or less and at least a 4 x 4 for anything 6 feet or less.
Is there a general rule like this for replacing walls that are load bearing? Like removing an 4’ wall 6’ wall 10’ wall 12’ wall and 16’ wall and replacing with dimensional lumber? I know lvl are more affective in this case but not as affordable. If u have made a video on this topic please tag me with it. I’ve found one where u talk a lot about not removing load bearing walls just not much on if u are what size beam in dimensional lumber and how to transfer the load down to a basement and/or crawspace. Thanks
There is a general rule of thumb for single story homes. 4 foot long opening will use 4x4, 6 foot will use 4x6, 8 foot will use 4x8 and so on, however I've seen 4x12 used for 16 foot garage openings. Keep in mind that other factors might effect beam and lumber sizes.
You can subtract the opening from any part of the wall height. I like to start with the top height of the other windows if remodeling or 82 inches in new homes and then measure down to calculate sill plate height.
Hi Greg, thank you! I have a bedroom door 30 inch wide on load bearing wall, 1st story with basement below. From what I read, 4by4 header should work, right?
Awesome video! We have a large window opening 12’ wide x 5’ high and want to remove the Sheetrock above header to see its size. Sounds like a header size 4” x 12” be expected, right? Our house is single story.
I have a rough door opening of 32x81. Bought a 30x80 prehung door. Thinking of using two 2x6 and sandwich in a 1/2 inch piece of plywood between the two. Would I be ok? The wall has a dbl plated top plate made out of 2x3. House built in '52. Wall is perpendicular to attic joists which makes it a bearing wall but only putting up a 30inch door. Let me know.
That's a common door header used for that particular sized door opening as long as there isn't a concentrated structural load directly above it. A concentrated load would be something like a post or beam holding up another section of the building.
Wow, this is awesome thank you so much! A question, is the application for two-story homes the same? And if not do you have a chart or can you guide me to where I can obtain this info?
You are welcome and thanks for watching. No it isn't the same, and I don't have additional information at this moment that would be helpful. However, I did put your video on a list and will put a link here if the video is ever completed. Sorry I couldn't help.
I want to cut a 60 in. wide doorway into a load bearing wall in a one-story home. No concentrated load above it. Figuring on using two 2x8's glued and bolted together with 3/4 in. plywood in between them. Is that safe enough?
Remember, I cannot provide you with engineering advice, but I think you're on the right path. Most single-story homes I worked on required a 4 x 6 for a 6 foot opening and a 4 x 8 would work even better.
I have a decorative piece I would like to place inside a 6 foot opening between rooms. The ceiling height is 8 feet the decorative piece is 19 inches tall. The only way this will work would be to place the decorative piece tight against the top plate. If a interior wall is non -load bearing why do I need a header?
I don't understand exactly what you're doing, but if you're talking about removing a section of a non-bearing wall, that is not supporting anything above, then you wouldn't need a header. However, if you remove a section of the wall that is providing lateral or left to right support for the home, then you might need a header and straps to connect the top plates. Here's a link to your website that might provide you with more information. www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/repairs/framing/walls/index.html
Hi Greg, for non-load bearing walls, 1 story, if my opening is less than 6 ft, do I need header? If so, would 4 by 6 work for 9 feet tall less than 6 ft opening.
Thanks Greg! You helped me more than a random structural engineer who came and offer no advice. I recently did a non load bearing wall, and used 4 by 12ft header for 12 feet opening, post is 4 by 4 supporting beam and post attached to 2 by 4, 1 story for 10 ft height.
Hi Greg, do you think my plan would work? 10 ft tall ceiling to subfloor height. Opening 12 ft, non load wall, we used 12 inch by 4 inch by 12 ft beam, with support posts 4 by 4 on each side and post is attached to 2 by 4 inch by 10 ft stud. Thank you.
Excellent videos Greg. I am currently in the process of remodeling my grandparents old 1940's home that I inherited. Anyways I am removing an old chimney/fireplace and going to install a bay or bow window so the wall I am going to have to reframe for this window. Wall is 15' and it is a load bearing wall and new window is 8' so does the general rule of thumb apply here as well? Would I be installing an 8' header or should I step it up to a 4x10 since it is load bearing? Thanks in advance.
crashduhmy I'm not allowed to give out structural engineering advice, but as long as it's a single-story home, I think a 4 x 10 would work better than a 4 x 8. Remember, this information is only a suggestion and might not work for every situation.
gregvancom Thinking the same thing 4 x 10. It is a single story home. I also live in the so cal LA area. I'm guessing maybe our building codes are similar. Anyhow thanks for your reply. Keep the videos coming. Excellent work
I work with a home builder that likes to move the headers up against the top plate then install cripples between the header and window, says he has better luck with screw pops in drywall, does that make sense to you?
I've seen it done before, but don't have never done it myself. I don't understand how it could reduce the amount of drywall nails or screws that pop out and of course I've rarely had it happened to me putting the cripples on top of the headers.
Hi Greg, thanks or the video. I am currently trying to remove a closet in a single-story 1950s house, and it is a closet that's around 10 ft long, and the header of the closet door is a 4x10 beam. How can I tell if this wall is load-bearing or not? there's no trusses resting on it that I can see from the attic. Thanks in advance.
It would be hard for me to tell you without seeing the project for myself whether or not you can remove the header. Check out this link for more videos on loadbearing walls video.gregvan.com/structural_engineering.htm.
thanks for video ,but i have a garage door 2 opening of 8x7 for 2 story building , i used 2(2x12) LVL. FOR 8' OPPENING OF GARAG DOOR THAT HAD ANOTHER STORY ON TOP , DO YOU THINK IS ENOUGH TO CARRY ALL LOADS?
+nedamemorial I can't provide you with header sizes, because I'm not a structural engineer. If it was me, I would use a solid 4 x 12, but this is only an educated opinion or my best guess, because I don't know how much weight is going to be supported by the garage header.
Would the same apply to an interior (right in the middle) loadbearing wall? I’m opening a wall going from the living room into the kitchen, hopefully 12' to 16' wide. Would I need a 4x12' or 16' or can I get away with less? Thanks
I cannot provide you with structural engineering advice, but I can tell you that I've seen plenty of 4 x 12 spanning a distance of 12 feet in a single-story home.
If I am swapping out a window for a sliding glass door and the width of the door is the same as the current window, do I need to do anything with the header? The door is only 80' high and the window height is 84', so I will have to fill in some space, but I'm thinking the header is fine because there's always been a window there. Is it ok to just cut down the sides and bottom area? Thanks for any help.
MrCtt76 as long as it's framed properly to begin with, you should be fine, just make sure your jack studs go under the header and connect all the way to the bottom plate.
If I was you, I would ask this same question to a structural engineer, because walls like these won't provide your building with very much structural support. Usually walls with a lot of glass will require moment frames and large steel I-beams and could become quite costly.
On a single story house you might be safe for the 4 x 10, but since I'm not a structural engineer and I don't know what type of load or how much weight it is supporting, then I would only be guessing. The one thing I cannot provide my viewers with is structural engineering information and specific lumber sizes.
Again, I can provide you with engineering information, but if it was me, I might, and this is only a suggestion, I might use a 4 x 12, when a 4 x 10 might only be required, to make things a little stronger.
It's a single dwelling house built in '52. Unable to find 3 1/2" at a home depot. I'm hiring someone cause I need two other doors replaced at same time.
Hey there, how are you thank you for posting these information for people. I really deeply want to valanteer with any company who have structural engineer. i need that As soon as possible and i want to learn. So, please if you have it and know any company who may accept student please let me know. I'm student at University of Hartford. please let me know ( Gregvancom ) Thank you
![Carpentry 101: Basics of Wood Framing with MattBangsWood [#1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y8W7KbJTg7A/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video, nice to see I am over securing my headers. We build outside walls with 2x6 so right away I am going 5 1/2” wide and my default header is 8”, I normally go with a 2x8 header (so 3 2x8 with 1/2” plywood to make the beam).
This is a big help! I am enclosing my back porch. It has a 3.5” x 14 or 16” x 33’ support beam with two 4” x 4” posts spaced at 11’. My issue is its 85” from floor to beam which leaves me 5” to work with in framing two doors. Thankfully this will not be load bearing wall.
Thanks great rule for single story.
2x12 box headers is the way to go. Never had a crack on the ones I've built. Does not cost much more
When you factor in the cost of labor it's probably cheaper than adding the stud spacers above the header needed to keep all the windows at the same height below the ceiling.
I have a 2x3 studded wall. I need to replace the door frame. Would I replace with a 2x3 rough opening or build a 2x4 door frame which I could only go with a 28 inch door. If I build a door frame with 2x3s, what width jamb size should I use? I probably could go with a 30 inch door. What is the best idea. With 2x4 frame, I would have to extend any electrical boxes and the drywall would start 1/2 inch further in the room. I'm only a homeowner not a carpenter. Thanks for any input.
What you're talking about seems to be standard on mobile homes, but you can either build your own door with a frame (or jamb) or purchase a pre-hung door and cut the frame down to size. For example if the new pre-hung frame is 4 1/2 inches wide for a 2 x 4 wall, you can cut it down to 3 1/2 inches wide or whatever you need, with a table saw or circular saw with a rip fence.
Is it better to use a solid 4x10 header or make it out of 2x10s ?
I like the solid headers and even though I'm not an engineer, believe they do also.
As an engineer, I can tell you that in most applications, laminated headers are preferred over single lumber. They have a higher strength rating. Depending on the specific loads involved, we also prefer laminated lumber for jack and king studs. Again, they are stronger and have less deflection under load. Good luck!
I watched a video and the instructor said always put the jack at 81 in which is the top of a door. That doesn't make sense to me if I'm using a 4 by 4 header 4A 24in height a 48-inch with window. Do you know what he was talking about?
The bottom of the header will be 81 inches, then you can measure down from there to find sill height.
What size header do I need for 36”x12” window and it’s a load bearing wall ?? Thank you
I cannot provide structural engineering information for individual projects like yours, but most 3 foot wide windows in a loadbearing wall usually require a 4 x 4, 4 x 6 or 4 x 8. If you're not going to contact an engineer, then you might even choose to use something larger.
Great video as always! Question if I may. Exterior 2x4x15 feet long wall. Single 2x6 rafters on top. 32x36 window to frame. If I understood well, a 2x4 headers with cripples should be enough? Thank you.
I can't provide engineering information for viewers, but can tell you that a 4x4 might work better.
@@gregvancom , Thank you very much for the answer. I appreciated.
Finally a rough guide!
THANK YOU!!! Quick question: Do I need to use a piece of plywood between 2x4 (or 2x6s) used in a built up header or can I just fill the space with insulation? I have a 1978 mobile home (single floor) that I pulled the paneling off of the exterior wall so I could drywall & attach the boxes to the studs, etc... and found that I have no jack studs around my front door. They just nailed a 2x4 into the side of the single king stud & hung the door. So, I am too small to actually remove the door & re frame the doorway. I figured if I sistered the existing king stud with another king stud, and then cut the original king stud to make it into a trim stud & popped in a header I would essentially have reframed the door correctly.. BUT what size header? I looked all over trying to find what I needed to use in silicon valley, CA to meet code & be strong enough. So for a 36" door you have a 4x4 and I can totally do that, except the way the wall is built (dropped cathedral ceiling) I have 5 1/2" to the ceiling plate & a little over 2 inches I can't get to. So whatever I use has to slide into place from the bottom and I won't be able to put in any cripple studs. So I am thinking two 2x6s but do they need a chunk of plywood between the layers or can I just use insulation to fill the void?
I've seen it done either way, but most of the time they sandwich a piece of plywood in between the two boards so that the interior and exterior wall framing lines up with them. It would be hard to install drywall over a door header that wasn't even with the face of the interior wall framing studs.
It depends on the application, but laminated headers are stronger. If load is the only concern, or the primary one, use laminate lumber like a pair of LVLs is stronger than a simple lumber “sandwich.” OTOH if heat transfer is a concern, filling the space between the lumber with an insulating material is an option, but it might require a larger header. Anytime you are dealing with a nonstandard instance, you should consult a structural engineer for your specific application. Good luck!
Do you still need a header for a non bearing wall?
Yes, you would need something like a 2 x 4 at the very least. I think as a general rule of thumb I would use a 2 x 4 for anything 3 feet or less and at least a 4 x 4 for anything 6 feet or less.
You still need framing above the opening to support drywall.
Is there a general rule like this for replacing walls that are load bearing? Like removing an 4’ wall 6’ wall 10’ wall 12’ wall and 16’ wall and replacing with dimensional lumber? I know lvl are more affective in this case but not as affordable. If u have made a video on this topic please tag me with it. I’ve found one where u talk a lot about not removing load bearing walls just not much on if u are what size beam in dimensional lumber and how to transfer the load down to a basement and/or crawspace. Thanks
There is a general rule of thumb for single story homes. 4 foot long opening will use 4x4, 6 foot will use 4x6, 8 foot will use 4x8 and so on, however I've seen 4x12 used for 16 foot garage openings. Keep in mind that other factors might effect beam and lumber sizes.
How do you determine the window sill height on a 2 by 4 ft window?
You can subtract the opening from any part of the wall height. I like to start with the top height of the other windows if remodeling or 82 inches in new homes and then measure down to calculate sill plate height.
Thanks, it helps!
Hi Greg, thank you! I have a bedroom door 30 inch wide on load bearing wall, 1st story with basement below. From what I read, 4by4 header should work, right?
Sounds great!
Awesome video! We have a large window opening 12’ wide x 5’ high and want to remove the Sheetrock above header to see its size. Sounds like a header size 4” x 12” be expected, right? Our house is single story.
We live in San Diego. Thank you in advance!
Yes, let us know if it's a 4 x 12.
Thank you for the reply!
Actual header size is 4”x4”, but there are two vertical jack studs dividing the large 12’ wide window into 3 parts.
I have a rough door opening of 32x81. Bought a 30x80 prehung door. Thinking of using two 2x6 and sandwich in a 1/2 inch piece of plywood between the two. Would I be ok? The wall has a dbl plated top plate made out of 2x3. House built in '52. Wall is perpendicular to attic joists which makes it a bearing wall but only putting up a 30inch door. Let me know.
That's a common door header used for that particular sized door opening as long as there isn't a concentrated structural load directly above it. A concentrated load would be something like a post or beam holding up another section of the building.
Wow, this is awesome thank you so much! A question, is the application for two-story homes the same? And if not do you have a chart or can you guide me to where I can obtain this info?
You are welcome and thanks for watching. No it isn't the same, and I don't have additional information at this moment that would be helpful. However, I did put your video on a list and will put a link here if the video is ever completed. Sorry I couldn't help.
I want to cut a 60 in. wide doorway into a load bearing wall in a one-story home. No concentrated load above it. Figuring on using two 2x8's glued and bolted together with 3/4 in. plywood in between them. Is that safe enough?
Remember, I cannot provide you with engineering advice, but I think you're on the right path. Most single-story homes I worked on required a 4 x 6 for a 6 foot opening and a 4 x 8 would work even better.
I have a decorative piece I would like to place inside a 6 foot opening between rooms. The ceiling height is 8 feet the decorative piece is 19 inches tall. The only way this will work would be to place the decorative piece tight against the top plate. If a interior wall is non -load bearing why do I need a header?
I don't understand exactly what you're doing, but if you're talking about removing a section of a non-bearing wall, that is not supporting anything above, then you wouldn't need a header. However, if you remove a section of the wall that is providing lateral or left to right support for the home, then you might need a header and straps to connect the top plates.
Here's a link to your website that might provide you with more information. www.homebuildingandrepairs.com/repairs/framing/walls/index.html
Hi Greg, for non-load bearing walls, 1 story, if my opening is less than 6 ft, do I need header? If so, would 4 by 6 work for 9 feet tall less than 6 ft opening.
I would think a 4x6 would work.
Thanks Greg! You helped me more than a random structural engineer who came and offer no advice. I recently did a non load bearing wall, and used 4 by 12ft header for 12 feet opening, post is 4 by 4 supporting beam and post attached to 2 by 4, 1 story for 10 ft height.
Hi Greg, do you think my plan would work? 10 ft tall ceiling to subfloor height. Opening 12 ft, non load wall, we used 12 inch by 4 inch by 12 ft beam, with support posts 4 by 4 on each side and post is attached to 2 by 4 inch by 10 ft stud. Thank you.
Header sizes also depend on roof span?
Good point, to figure out header sizes, you might need to take a variety of things in the consideration and that's what engineers do.
Excellent videos Greg. I am currently in the process of remodeling my grandparents old 1940's home that I inherited. Anyways I am removing an old chimney/fireplace and going to install a bay or bow window so the wall I am going to have to reframe for this window. Wall is 15' and it is a load bearing wall and new window is 8' so does the general rule of thumb apply here as well? Would I be installing an 8' header or should I step it up to a 4x10 since it is load bearing?
Thanks in advance.
crashduhmy I'm not allowed to give out structural engineering advice, but as long as it's a single-story home, I think a 4 x 10 would work better than a 4 x 8. Remember, this information is only a suggestion and might not work for every situation.
gregvancom Thinking the same thing 4 x 10. It is a single story home. I also live in the so cal LA area. I'm guessing maybe our building codes are similar. Anyhow thanks for your reply. Keep the videos coming. Excellent work
I work with a home builder that likes to move the headers up against the top plate then install cripples between the header and window, says he has better luck with screw pops in drywall, does that make sense to you?
I've seen it done before, but don't have never done it myself. I don't understand how it could reduce the amount of drywall nails or screws that pop out and of course I've rarely had it happened to me putting the cripples on top of the headers.
Hi Greg, thanks or the video. I am currently trying to remove a closet in a single-story 1950s house, and it is a closet that's around 10 ft long, and the header of the closet door is a 4x10 beam. How can I tell if this wall is load-bearing or not? there's no trusses resting on it that I can see from the attic. Thanks in advance.
It would be hard for me to tell you without seeing the project for myself whether or not you can remove the header. Check out this link for more videos on loadbearing walls video.gregvan.com/structural_engineering.htm.
+Michelle Zeng go in ur attic and see where ur raptors and joyce's r that ur load bearing wall.
thanks for video ,but i have a garage door 2 opening of 8x7 for 2 story building , i used 2(2x12) LVL. FOR 8' OPPENING OF GARAG DOOR THAT HAD ANOTHER STORY ON TOP , DO YOU THINK IS ENOUGH TO CARRY ALL LOADS?
+nedamemorial I can't provide you with header sizes, because I'm not a structural engineer. If it was me, I would use a solid 4 x 12, but this is only an educated opinion or my best guess, because I don't know how much weight is going to be supported by the garage header.
Great video, very helpful. Thanks
You are welcome and thanks for watching.
Would the same apply to an interior (right in the middle) loadbearing wall? I’m opening a wall going from the living room into the kitchen, hopefully 12' to 16' wide. Would I need a 4x12' or 16' or can I get away with less? Thanks
I cannot provide you with structural engineering advice, but I can tell you that I've seen plenty of 4 x 12 spanning a distance of 12 feet in a single-story home.
4x4 header equals out to what size of lumber?
3.5" x 3.5"
If I am swapping out a window for a sliding glass door and the width of the door is the same as the current window, do I need to do anything with the header? The door is only 80' high and the window height is 84', so I will have to fill in some space, but I'm thinking the header is fine because there's always been a window there. Is it ok to just cut down the sides and bottom area? Thanks for any help.
MrCtt76 as long as it's framed properly to begin with, you should be fine, just make sure your jack studs go under the header and connect all the way to the bottom plate.
If I was you, I would ask this same question to a structural engineer, because walls like these won't provide your building with very much structural support. Usually walls with a lot of glass will require moment frames and large steel I-beams and could become quite costly.
What do you use for spanning an 8 foot window
On a single story house you might be safe for the 4 x 10, but since I'm not a structural engineer and I don't know what type of load or how much weight it is supporting, then I would only be guessing. The one thing I cannot provide my viewers with is structural engineering information and specific lumber sizes.
gregvancom it's a 2 story house but the joist run perpendicular to the window so not really load bearing.
Again, I can provide you with engineering information, but if it was me, I might, and this is only a suggestion, I might use a 4 x 12, when a 4 x 10 might only be required, to make things a little stronger.
Great video, thank you
You are welcome!
Love your videos
I always appreciate comments like yours and thanks for watching.
Excellent video!
Gracias compadre
It's a single dwelling house built in '52. Unable to find 3 1/2" at a home depot. I'm hiring someone cause I need two other doors replaced at same time.
not studs are actually 2x4 they are all 3 1/2"
Hey there,
how are you
thank you for posting these information for people. I really deeply want to valanteer with any company who have structural engineer. i need that As soon as possible and i want to learn. So, please if you have it and know any company who may accept student please let me know. I'm student at University of Hartford.
please let me know ( Gregvancom )
Thank you
I don't know of anybody, but keep looking and don't give up. You'll find someone.
Keeping rest of wall intact.
2x12s and 4x4s, bc, why not hahah