Very informative on the history and development of the meaning of “light” in Quakerism . Friend speaks my mind, I personally resonate with the use of Inward Light .
"Mind the light of God in your consciences, which will show you all deceit; dwelling in it, guides out of the many things into one spirit, which cannot lie, nor deceive. Those who are guided by it, are one." ~ George Fox, 1624-1691 Fox does not here use the phrase "Inward Light", but does state that the Light of God is IN a person's conscience where it can be minded or heeded.
Absolutely, I think the 'Inward Light' is more consistently used by Barclay. You are right, the Light is IN our conscience but is not equitable to our conscience, which is where I think some Quakers get it wrong...
Thank you for taking the time and care to produce these videos, I am listening to them when I have mindless tasks to do at work (making wine boxes today!). I am new to Quakerism (though almost everything I have gleaned about Quakerism resonates powerfully with me in a way "normal" Christian churches do not... it's like I've "come home" spiritually. Unsurprisingly perhaps, one of my favourite aspects is the way Quakers tend to say "this is my understanding, you / others may well feel differently" rather than telling me what to think / believe / do etc... Anyway, the point Id like to tentatively make here is that I very much see "The Light" as an inner thing that is in all of us - I'm interested to know why that seems more problematic to you?
First of all, welcome and thank you for watching! Secondly, wine boxes? Interesting. To your point, I don't have any real issue with it on the day to day. I would check out my video on Rufus Jones for a deeper elaboration on this as he is really the person who popularised this phrase in the early 20th Century. So I suppose that is one thing, it isn't a 'true' Quaker phrase, whereas 'Inward Light' has a greater vintage (getting back to wine...). What Jones was really trying to do was to link the Inward Light of Quaker theology and his work in psychology on the conscience. I find this troubling as I don't believe the conscience is quite the 'that of God' we are meaning, but rather that we meet the 'that of God' in the conscience. I think the term 'Inner Light' muddies those waters. Finally, just in terms of direction, I much prefer the 'Durchbruch' of the Divine coming from outside into everyone, than God inherently being inside ('I stand at the door and knock'). Ultimately it is a preference and I would probably argue that I am in the minority of Quakers as I hear it all the time!
[In conservative Quakerism the vocal ministry and "cultural environment" of the Meetings are very christocentric, which is something you may want to explore. It certainly was a great find for me, as a place that merges Quaker values and practice with the Christian message and His Presence.] 🕊🌿
@@ajits64 I did sense the Holy Spirit moving in meetings for sure. Just want bible teaching, sermons and songs now though and that’s missing with Quakers. Perhaps I’ll go back and drop in with them now and then 🤔 do miss it but can’t go fully back I don’t think
I am Quaker and talk about God, Jesus and read from the Bible in meeting. Other Friends talk in other ways and tread different paths. I do know what you mean, though, it can seem in liberal meetings that you can talk about anything except Jesus. It took me a while to overcome that feeling and find that many liberal friends actually are quite christocentric. You do need to find a meeting that suits you. Many people come to Friends because they've been traumatized in Christian churches and I understand that but I became a Friend because it seemed to me the best way to do Christianity.
@grassic Very well said. You are so right about that, and I have experienced this just as you say -- but tend to forget sometimes. Thank you, Friend, for the reminder; I needed that course-correction! 🌿
Great video! I like your perspective, thank you for sharing:-) I’m a very literal kind of person. So, from my perspective…… Our soul is a fractal of God that forgot itself, lost itself in its human experience. Our soul is eternal because it is a part of god, who forgot itself/connection to god. The human experience is intoxicating for the soul, so it’s easy to get lost in the human experience (mate, family, job, material, things, church etc). It’s easy to forget yourself/ your soul when forgetfulness is one of the conditions of being human. The way I see it, the way I treat anybody else is the way I am treating God. If I treat anyone with unkindness, anger or bitterness for example, that is how I am essentially treating God because what other people do, should not affect how I treat them. No matter how some people act, they have a soul, they just forgot. They forgot their connection to god. How I treat anyone, is how I am treating God. That’s the way I see it. A soul/light in everyone. Our soul is a part of God who lost itself in the human experience. Thats my perspective cuz im a literal type of person. Again, great video!! many thanks:-)!!!
My father was not a Quaker, although he attended a Quaker private school near Philadephia. He was a Quaker sympathizer for sure. He used to use the phrase "I will hold you in the light," or words to that effect. Is this Quaker terminology? I have never heard anyone else say this.
I am a retired teacher from a Friends' School in the Philadelphia area. That is where I first heard this expression "to hold someone in the Light" -- and I heard it quite frequently during those years. ❤
Yes and it's not merely a synonym for prayer. For me, it is an intention to hold the person in the awareness of the spirit of Christ as experienced in Quaker meeting. It's still commonly heard in Britain Yearly Meeting.
It's a very Quaker thing, yes, but, as I understand it, also a relatively new phrase. I think I read that it is not attested before the 20th Century...read into that what you will
I am also, as you stated, much more comfortable with the term Inward Light. I am also a little nervous about the potential implications of the other term. It does seem to me that I have heard it used with that very misunderstanding that you mentioned here while in liberal Quaker settings. 🌿
What do you mean at about 16 minutes, that surely no Quaker believes that god lives within them? I thought that was the whole point. I thought the light was just another way to describe what we mean by "god." So on my march to "convincement" I have a serious setback here. After studying intensely these past couple months since I discovered the local meeting, about the history, the different splits of thought among Quakers, about Advices & Queries, listening to about 100 Quaker Speak videos, attending every First Day meeting, after meeting talks, even doing an outreach event with a few Friends - and - and this is the big one - actually making cupcakes for after meeting snacks one week - NOW I find I got it ALL wrong?? Crap, I knew there was something weird. I am going back to just being a garden-variety athiest who knows the difference between right and wrong and am trying to do right in the world. That worked fine the first 50 years of my "spiritual" life. I guess why worry about it. I really do not fit in anywhere, which is fine if that is what it is.
As usual in Quakerism you will get different answers from different people. The early Quakers would have said the light was that light in John 1:4-9. I, personally, think that if you want to "translate " traditional Quaker theology for other Christians its reasonable to say that the inward light is a working of the spirit. The Quaker emphasis is that this working of the spirit is universal, immediately available and unmediated.
Agree with @grassic some Quakers definitely see it as that. Other Quakers see it as the medium by which we encounter God. Some prefer that it is simply thr conscience… broad spectrum there, as with everything Quaker!
Hi there, I absolutely do think Quakers are people of conscience. I think our tradition, testimonies and lives of Quakers throughout our history make that case wonderfully. However, I don't think that is what the Inner/Inward Light is. You have to remember that, for every Quaker that says one thing, there will be two that say another so I am wouldn't want to speak for all Quakers. However, for me, the Inward Light represents the breakthrough of the Divine into my life. My conscience, I suppose, is how I live my life as a sign of that breakthrough. For me, conscience is grounded in human thought and action, the Inward Light is external to humanity. In meeting, for example, I am not asking, what is my conscience asking me to do, but what is being asked of me by the Divine. Otherwise, at least for me, I fear that we might lose the mystery that one feels in meeting, if it is all coming just from our own conscience. That being said, especially amongst more non-theist Quakers, they would be more comfortable to link the Inward Light and conscience but I obviously can't speak for them. Hope that clears up how I think about it. I am very aware that other views are out there!
The inward light relates to my experience of living in the truth.
Very informative on the history and development of the meaning of “light” in Quakerism . Friend speaks my mind, I personally resonate with the use of Inward Light .
Thanks, Mark!
Thank you for this post, it is very informative.
"Mind the light of God in your consciences,
which will show you all deceit;
dwelling in it, guides out of the many things into one spirit, which cannot lie, nor deceive.
Those who are guided by it, are one."
~ George Fox, 1624-1691
Fox does not here use the phrase "Inward Light", but does state that the Light of God is IN a person's conscience where it can be minded or heeded.
Absolutely, I think the 'Inward Light' is more consistently used by Barclay. You are right, the Light is IN our conscience but is not equitable to our conscience, which is where I think some Quakers get it wrong...
Thank you for taking the time and care to produce these videos, I am listening to them when I have mindless tasks to do at work (making wine boxes today!). I am new to Quakerism (though almost everything I have gleaned about Quakerism resonates powerfully with me in a way "normal" Christian churches do not... it's like I've "come home" spiritually. Unsurprisingly perhaps, one of my favourite aspects is the way Quakers tend to say "this is my understanding, you / others may well feel differently" rather than telling me what to think / believe / do etc...
Anyway, the point Id like to tentatively make here is that I very much see "The Light" as an inner thing that is in all of us - I'm interested to know why that seems more problematic to you?
First of all, welcome and thank you for watching!
Secondly, wine boxes? Interesting.
To your point, I don't have any real issue with it on the day to day. I would check out my video on Rufus Jones for a deeper elaboration on this as he is really the person who popularised this phrase in the early 20th Century. So I suppose that is one thing, it isn't a 'true' Quaker phrase, whereas 'Inward Light' has a greater vintage (getting back to wine...). What Jones was really trying to do was to link the Inward Light of Quaker theology and his work in psychology on the conscience. I find this troubling as I don't believe the conscience is quite the 'that of God' we are meaning, but rather that we meet the 'that of God' in the conscience. I think the term 'Inner Light' muddies those waters. Finally, just in terms of direction, I much prefer the 'Durchbruch' of the Divine coming from outside into everyone, than God inherently being inside ('I stand at the door and knock').
Ultimately it is a preference and I would probably argue that I am in the minority of Quakers as I hear it all the time!
@Quake-It-Up Thanks for your considered reply, appreciated (: - I will certainly look at that video at some point!
“I mind the light. Dost thow?” - on the sundial at Friends Meeting of Washington, DC
I eventually left Quakers because I got to a point where I need to talk about Jesus openly and specifically. Quakers are awesome though ❤
[In conservative Quakerism the vocal ministry and "cultural environment" of the Meetings are very christocentric, which is something you may want to explore. It certainly was a great find for me, as a place that merges Quaker values and practice with the Christian message and His Presence.]
🕊🌿
@@ajits64 I did sense the Holy Spirit moving in meetings for sure. Just want bible teaching, sermons and songs now though and that’s missing with Quakers. Perhaps I’ll go back and drop in with them now and then 🤔 do miss it but can’t go fully back I don’t think
I am Quaker and talk about God, Jesus and read from the Bible in meeting. Other Friends talk in other ways and tread different paths. I do know what you mean, though, it can seem in liberal meetings that you can talk about anything except Jesus. It took me a while to overcome that feeling and find that many liberal friends actually are quite christocentric. You do need to find a meeting that suits you. Many people come to Friends because they've been traumatized in Christian churches and I understand that but I became a Friend because it seemed to me the best way to do Christianity.
@grassic Very well said. You are so right about that, and I have experienced this just as you say -- but tend to forget sometimes. Thank you, Friend, for the reminder; I needed that course-correction! 🌿
Great video! I like your perspective, thank you for sharing:-)
I’m a very literal kind of person. So, from my perspective……
Our soul is a fractal of God that forgot itself, lost itself in its human experience.
Our soul is eternal because it is a part of god, who forgot itself/connection to god.
The human experience is intoxicating for the soul, so it’s easy to get lost in the human experience (mate, family, job, material, things, church etc).
It’s easy to forget yourself/ your soul when forgetfulness is one of the conditions of being human.
The way I see it, the way I treat anybody else is the way I am treating God. If I treat anyone with unkindness, anger or bitterness for example, that is how I am essentially treating God because what other people do, should not affect how I treat them.
No matter how some people act, they have a soul, they just forgot. They forgot their connection to god.
How I treat anyone, is how I am treating God. That’s the way I see it.
A soul/light in everyone.
Our soul is a part of God who lost itself in the human experience.
Thats my perspective cuz im a literal type of person.
Again, great video!! many thanks:-)!!!
My father was not a Quaker, although he attended a Quaker private school near Philadephia. He was a Quaker sympathizer for sure. He used to use the phrase "I will hold you in the light," or words to that effect. Is this Quaker terminology? I have never heard anyone else say this.
I am a retired teacher from a Friends' School in the Philadelphia area. That is where I first heard this expression "to hold someone in the Light" -- and I heard it quite frequently during those years. ❤
Yes and it's not merely a synonym for prayer. For me, it is an intention to hold the person in the awareness of the spirit of Christ as experienced in Quaker meeting. It's still commonly heard in Britain Yearly Meeting.
@jasonevans4970 Yes! Love that. ❤️
It's a very Quaker thing, yes, but, as I understand it, also a relatively new phrase. I think I read that it is not attested before the 20th Century...read into that what you will
I am also, as you stated, much more comfortable with the term Inward Light. I am also a little nervous about the potential implications of the other term. It does seem to me that I have heard it used with that very misunderstanding that you mentioned here while in liberal Quaker settings. 🌿
❤❤❤❤
❤🙏🏼
What do you mean at about 16 minutes, that surely no Quaker believes that god lives within them? I thought that was the whole point. I thought the light was just another way to describe what we mean by "god." So on my march to "convincement" I have a serious setback here. After studying intensely these past couple months since I discovered the local meeting, about the history, the different splits of thought among Quakers, about Advices & Queries, listening to about 100 Quaker Speak videos, attending every First Day meeting, after meeting talks, even doing an outreach event with a few Friends - and - and this is the big one - actually making cupcakes for after meeting snacks one week - NOW I find I got it ALL wrong?? Crap, I knew there was something weird. I am going back to just being a garden-variety athiest who knows the difference between right and wrong and am trying to do right in the world. That worked fine the first 50 years of my "spiritual" life. I guess why worry about it. I really do not fit in anywhere, which is fine if that is what it is.
Is there a differentiation between this and the holy spirit?
As usual in Quakerism you will get different answers from different people. The early Quakers would have said the light was that light in John 1:4-9. I, personally, think that if you want to "translate " traditional Quaker theology for other Christians its reasonable to say that the inward light is a working of the spirit. The Quaker emphasis is that this working of the spirit is universal, immediately available and unmediated.
Agree with @grassic some Quakers definitely see it as that. Other Quakers see it as the medium by which we encounter God. Some prefer that it is simply thr conscience… broad spectrum there, as with everything Quaker!
You don't think inner light = conscience? Do you at least agree that the would sees Quakers as people of conscience?
Hi there, I absolutely do think Quakers are people of conscience. I think our tradition, testimonies and lives of Quakers throughout our history make that case wonderfully.
However, I don't think that is what the Inner/Inward Light is. You have to remember that, for every Quaker that says one thing, there will be two that say another so I am wouldn't want to speak for all Quakers. However, for me, the Inward Light represents the breakthrough of the Divine into my life. My conscience, I suppose, is how I live my life as a sign of that breakthrough. For me, conscience is grounded in human thought and action, the Inward Light is external to humanity. In meeting, for example, I am not asking, what is my conscience asking me to do, but what is being asked of me by the Divine. Otherwise, at least for me, I fear that we might lose the mystery that one feels in meeting, if it is all coming just from our own conscience.
That being said, especially amongst more non-theist Quakers, they would be more comfortable to link the Inward Light and conscience but I obviously can't speak for them.
Hope that clears up how I think about it. I am very aware that other views are out there!