I look forward to a glossy review for the black and white. Great video, it's so nice to watch someone who is actually using the product to create a review video.
Thanks, Keith - your presentations are as crisp as your photography. I have also been experimenting with this paper (in 8 1/2" x 11"). I have done test prints of both B/W and color and find the ability of this paper to deliver rich blacks, and retain fine detail, is better than most of the matt papers out there. And the issue of curling that you mentioned is somewhat more prevalent than for other fiber-based matt papers (although the Wx swings here in NH at this time of the year don't help!) Keep up the good work - T
Thanks, Keith. I used it meanwhile for a couple of prints with the P900. For a matte paper it appears to be extremely flexible and can be used not only for low contrast, but also high contrast images. The problem with curling is correct: I saw it especially after usage of a protective spray.
@@KeithCooper In terms of detail Ilford Smooth Cotton exceedes everything I've seen so far, comparing to gloss/baryta papers division. The absorption of light also works to its advantage. When you frame the print using museum glass, eg. AR70 or UV70, it looks astonishing. Canson Rag Photographique 310 is very similar, if not the same. I recommend reviewing both.
I'll bear that in mind - I have already tried the canson 310 and it will be in the profiles I've created for the P5300 review. The other papers depend on someone sending me some though. I cannot afford to buy papers just to test@@krzysztofligeza1
Nice analysis. I have the paper printed a pic of my wife and thought it beautiful. The Voighlander renders soft wide open on my Fuji and the Epson P800 did the rest.
Thanks for this, very informative! The marketing text for this paper had me quite confused as to whether this was dead matt or if the printed parts had a sheen to them, so I much appreciate you going into detail on this aspect. What's not quite clear to me is what the barium sulphate actually adds. Is it just the fact that it's completely OBA free, or does it add whiteness, density or detail beyond a regular PR 308, perhaps up to Photo Rag Bright White level? And are there considerations beyond the texture (and possible edge curl) that might lead you to choose this over a Photo Rag (or PR Bright White) type paper? Oh, and compared to the mildly textured Photo Rag, would this be more or less susceptible to scuffs and smudges? I'm looking for a paper to mount on polystyrene board without glass
Thanks - I saw the bit about 'sheen' in the info - I couldn't really see it. The baryta layer is just whiteness and physical smoothness as far as I know - it still needs other surface layer components for the ink to adhere to. I think it's the smooth surface texture which gives the feel of better detail A quick note on dmax from my P5300 profiling HM Matt baryta 1.64 Cold Press natural 1.69 Canson RagP310 1.68 HM Hemp 1.68 Epson VFA 1.75 Allowing for measurement conditions, all much of a muchness except the Epson VFA which I've sometimes noted does have a slightly darker black
How do you find it compares ‘dynamic range’ wise to their standard 308 photo rag? Does it register a higher dmax since it’s a baryta? I love using Matt papers but I know I lose contrast compared to the greater dmax of the baryta satin for example even though the photo rag 308 already is one of the more capable Matt papers for contrast!
I don't have any standard 308 here I'm afraid. I'll include a few figures in the main P5300 written review, but from my profiling data, the black patch had a density of 2.38, so better than many a matt paper I've seen.
Do you have a procedure for dealing with paper curl if it does occur? The last inch or so is the most impacted by curl. The paper feeding mechanisms in my ET-8550 will actually compress the heavier, thicker papers causing that last part of the paper to rise slightly causing head strikes.
If needed, I'd add a slight reverse curl. I've found a cushion and the soft curved edge of a sofa very handy... However, I'd rather have a paper which is flat from the box.
From my experience with baryta papers, most, if not all of them lean towards a warm tone. Would you say that applies with the Hahnemuhle here? Btw, all your printed photos are beautiful, but i couldn't help being distracted the entire video by that large glossy print of something hanging on the door.
@KeithCooper Yes, those fine art "natural" rag papers look particularly warm tone, which can be a + or - depending on what you're going for. Sometimes those are the best for my intended look, and sometimes I do want something more neutral.
Hello and thank you for the so informative videos. I was wondering if you had any tips to print flash cards on paper on your Epson 2850. Image on one side, text on the reverse, and 4 cards/sheet…
while only 308 gsm the specs indicate 0.5 mm thickness: I assume this rag paper is not very dense. I've noticed you load the sheets through the rear feeder not the front feeder, which media settings (cylinder settings) are you using? On my R3000 and P900 I always load paper over 0.4 mmm on the front feeder.
Loads just fine by the top - I only ever use the front feed on a printer like this for board. The P5300 has rather better sheet paper handling that the 3000 and P900. If I was using it a lot I might create a custom media setting based on the suggested media VFA setting
Thank you for the review. It looks very promising. Wondering how the blacks look like on this paper in real: significantly deeper than in known cotton papers or something between cotton and gloss/baryta?
The DMax [~1.7] is not significantly different to cotton rag papers There are two levels of black with this printer Lustre/baryta papers and matt papers, with minor differences in each group
@@KeithCooper This is therefore a bit disappointing, considering the launch of a product with a name associated with deep blacks. It somehow suggest jumping on a new level at this aspect. They market it as follows: "The barium sulfate in the coating enhances the print's tonal range, sharpness and clarity. The printed areas reveal an elegant, subtle sheen." There is very good Hahnemühle Photo Rag Ultra Smooth 305gsm. Not sure about the presence of OB in that paper but if the blacks are not deeper... The differences sound very subtle and difficult to examine without checking in person.
Very useful, thanks. I have a question: in your experience have you come across any paper that produces prints with exceptional 'presence' when you hold them? Not necessarily more contrasty or brighter, or more naturalistic ... but something a bit extra or magical? I like prints on watercolor paper but they can look a bit dull. Perhaps there is no such paper, or perhaps it is the ink type rather than the paper that produces the most pleasing characteristics? I would be interested to know your thoughts. Thank you and thanks for the excellent videos.
Thanks In general it's the image which does it, different papers do sometimes work in different ways. The most interesting, as in unexpected, I've tested for a while was the titanium gloss metallic I tried on the PRO-200 - a look like a transparency. Of course, that's dye ink and bright strong gloss. I tend to like papers like smooth cotton and soft baryta like the IFA-45
@@KeithCooper thanks for the reply, titanium gloss metallic sounds good! I think what I would like to do is to spray a satin varnish coat on to the image area of a matt art or watercolor fine art paper (color accuracy is not paramount for the prints I have in mind)- but I take on board your points in the canvas printing video: probably not worth the hassle!
german (mainly) photobook publisher, quality obsessed, the "how to make a book with steidl" documentary is on youtube now. perhaps a plastic box with some silica gel is more inkjet appropriate @@KeithCooper
Thanks - curl is a lot less of an issue these days with papers. I do sometimes keep the paper upside down in the box to counteract any tendency for the edges to rise. Of course, I live in a fairly equable climate, so no extremes of humidity or temperature...
I've not had both available whilst the P5300 was here. In general I prefer a touch more texture to my matt prints, but very much a matter of personal taste
Gorgeous Keith. Your videos are amazing. Some screenshots would make amazing material for an inspired painting. Just stunning.
Thanks!
Great stuff Keith, thanks from the community!
Glad it's of interest
I look forward to a glossy review for the black and white. Great video, it's so nice to watch someone who is actually using the product to create a review video.
Thanks - which paper is that? I've only a few types here with the P5300
Thanks great review as I was thinking about getting this paper myself.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks, Keith - your presentations are as crisp as your photography. I have also been experimenting with this paper (in 8 1/2" x 11"). I have done test prints of both B/W and color and find the ability of this paper to deliver rich blacks, and retain fine detail, is better than most of the matt papers out there. And the issue of curling that you mentioned is somewhat more prevalent than for other fiber-based matt papers (although the Wx swings here in NH at this time of the year don't help!) Keep up the good work -
T
Thanks - the vacuum system on the P5300 was definitely earning its keep there.
Thanks, Keith. I used it meanwhile for a couple of prints with the P900. For a matte paper it appears to be extremely flexible and can be used not only for low contrast, but also high contrast images. The problem with curling is correct: I saw it especially after usage of a protective spray.
Yes, it deos have a sharpness about it, less common on matte media
@@KeithCooperhello Keith could you make a video about good quality color label printers.
Not really my area of expertise I'm afraid@@THEDARK3IAD
@@KeithCooper In terms of detail Ilford Smooth Cotton exceedes everything I've seen so far, comparing to gloss/baryta papers division. The absorption of light also works to its advantage. When you frame the print using museum glass, eg. AR70 or UV70, it looks astonishing. Canson Rag Photographique 310 is very similar, if not the same. I recommend reviewing both.
I'll bear that in mind - I have already tried the canson 310 and it will be in the profiles I've created for the P5300 review.
The other papers depend on someone sending me some though. I cannot afford to buy papers just to test@@krzysztofligeza1
Nice analysis. I have the paper printed a pic of my wife and thought it beautiful. The Voighlander renders soft wide open on my Fuji and the Epson P800 did the rest.
Thanks - a paper which suits some images very well.
Glad it was of interest
Thanks for this, very informative! The marketing text for this paper had me quite confused as to whether this was dead matt or if the printed parts had a sheen to them, so I much appreciate you going into detail on this aspect. What's not quite clear to me is what the barium sulphate actually adds. Is it just the fact that it's completely OBA free, or does it add whiteness, density or detail beyond a regular PR 308, perhaps up to Photo Rag Bright White level? And are there considerations beyond the texture (and possible edge curl) that might lead you to choose this over a Photo Rag (or PR Bright White) type paper? Oh, and compared to the mildly textured Photo Rag, would this be more or less susceptible to scuffs and smudges? I'm looking for a paper to mount on polystyrene board without glass
Thanks - I saw the bit about 'sheen' in the info - I couldn't really see it.
The baryta layer is just whiteness and physical smoothness as far as I know - it still needs other surface layer components for the ink to adhere to.
I think it's the smooth surface texture which gives the feel of better detail
A quick note on dmax from my P5300 profiling
HM Matt baryta 1.64
Cold Press natural 1.69
Canson RagP310 1.68
HM Hemp 1.68
Epson VFA 1.75
Allowing for measurement conditions, all much of a muchness except the Epson VFA which I've sometimes noted does have a slightly darker black
@@KeithCooper Thanks, much appreciated! :-)
Sounds great but such a thick paper would not work in my Epson R3000. Head streaks would show up for sure.
I reviewed the R3000 back in 2011 and whilst it worked OK with VFA and USFA papers, I did get some marks on paper with slight curl.
How do you find it compares ‘dynamic range’ wise to their standard 308 photo rag? Does it register a higher dmax since it’s a baryta? I love using Matt papers but I know I lose contrast compared to the greater dmax of the baryta satin for example even though the photo rag 308 already is one of the more capable Matt papers for contrast!
I don't have any standard 308 here I'm afraid.
I'll include a few figures in the main P5300 written review, but from my profiling data, the black patch had a density of 2.38, so better than many a matt paper I've seen.
Do you have a procedure for dealing with paper curl if it does occur? The last inch or so is the most impacted by curl. The paper feeding mechanisms in my ET-8550 will actually compress the heavier, thicker papers causing that last part of the paper to rise slightly causing head strikes.
If needed, I'd add a slight reverse curl. I've found a cushion and the soft curved edge of a sofa very handy...
However, I'd rather have a paper which is flat from the box.
Thanks, @@KeithCooper
From my experience with baryta papers, most, if not all of them lean towards a warm tone. Would you say that applies with the Hahnemuhle here?
Btw, all your printed photos are beautiful, but i couldn't help being distracted the entire video by that large glossy print of something hanging on the door.
Thanks - It's relatively neutral, but still looks a bit warm under some lighting, not as much as some 'natural' rag papers though
@KeithCooper Yes, those fine art "natural" rag papers look particularly warm tone, which can be a + or - depending on what you're going for. Sometimes those are the best for my intended look, and sometimes I do want something more neutral.
Hello and thank you for the so informative videos. I was wondering if you had any tips to print flash cards on paper on your Epson 2850. Image on one side, text on the reverse, and 4 cards/sheet…
Find the right media - the 2850 is very picky about which media works well
www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson-et-2850-printer-review/
while only 308 gsm the specs indicate 0.5 mm thickness: I assume this rag paper is not very dense. I've noticed you load the sheets through the rear feeder not the front feeder, which media settings (cylinder settings) are you using? On my R3000 and P900 I always load paper over 0.4 mmm on the front feeder.
Loads just fine by the top - I only ever use the front feed on a printer like this for board. The P5300 has rather better sheet paper handling that the 3000 and P900.
If I was using it a lot I might create a custom media setting based on the suggested media VFA setting
Thank you for the review. It looks very promising. Wondering how the blacks look like on this paper in real: significantly deeper than in known cotton papers or something between cotton and gloss/baryta?
The DMax [~1.7] is not significantly different to cotton rag papers
There are two levels of black with this printer
Lustre/baryta papers and matt papers, with minor differences in each group
@@KeithCooper This is therefore a bit disappointing, considering the launch of a product with a name associated with deep blacks. It somehow suggest jumping on a new level at this aspect. They market it as follows: "The barium sulfate in the coating enhances the print's tonal range, sharpness and clarity. The printed areas reveal an elegant, subtle sheen."
There is very good Hahnemühle Photo Rag Ultra Smooth 305gsm. Not sure about the presence of OB in that paper but if the blacks are not deeper... The differences sound very subtle and difficult to examine without checking in person.
I'll have some 25+ profiles available for analysis when I've finished the main written review. The should give one info
Very useful, thanks. I have a question: in your experience have you come across any paper that produces prints with exceptional 'presence' when you hold them? Not necessarily more contrasty or brighter, or more naturalistic ... but something a bit extra or magical? I like prints on watercolor paper but they can look a bit dull. Perhaps there is no such paper, or perhaps it is the ink type rather than the paper that produces the most pleasing characteristics? I would be interested to know your thoughts. Thank you and thanks for the excellent videos.
Thanks
In general it's the image which does it, different papers do sometimes work in different ways.
The most interesting, as in unexpected, I've tested for a while was the titanium gloss metallic I tried on the PRO-200 - a look like a transparency.
Of course, that's dye ink and bright strong gloss.
I tend to like papers like smooth cotton and soft baryta like the IFA-45
@@KeithCooper thanks for the reply, titanium gloss metallic sounds good! I think what I would like to do is to spray a satin varnish coat on to the image area of a matt art or watercolor fine art paper (color accuracy is not paramount for the prints I have in mind)- but I take on board your points in the canvas printing video: probably not worth the hassle!
Keith can you see why anyone would choose this over say a Canson Arches 88?
Availability - Never seen any arches paper I'm afraid
I had a weird experience with it, using his ICC profile and calibrated screen, the print came out super dark
What printer, what software - who's profile?
Something wrong somewhere...
Canon Imageprograf pro 1000…profile from hahnemühle
Software canon plugin printer pro for photoshop
Just the one print? Did you try with a known test image?
@@KeithCoopernot yet I’m going to try
steidl leave paper in a climate controlled room for 2 weeks before offset printing so it absorbs the ink properly
Who? Sounds rather more work than most would consider for this sort of printing ;-)
german (mainly) photobook publisher, quality obsessed, the "how to make a book with steidl" documentary is on youtube now. perhaps a plastic box with some silica gel is more inkjet appropriate @@KeithCooper
Thanks - curl is a lot less of an issue these days with papers.
I do sometimes keep the paper upside down in the box to counteract any tendency for the edges to rise.
Of course, I live in a fairly equable climate, so no extremes of humidity or temperature...
Keith-- how do you think it compares to the Ultrasmooth?
I've not had both available whilst the P5300 was here.
In general I prefer a touch more texture to my matt prints, but very much a matter of personal taste