One thing about the Horizon Walker teleport not mentioned: If you start your turn grappled, restrained, etc, you can escape that condition before attacking for free.
I had a Horizon Walker pre-Tasha's, and a monk. The HW out maneuvered the monk hands down, and the monk took the mobility feat. Force damage also overcomes most resistances.
This would also help them get past things like Wall of force, or Force cage (granted you have to make a save/check to get through it but if you target three different creatures in a turn, you could have three chances to break out.
@@noahmehringer29 Personally, while I agree Gloomstalker is slightly better, I think both are S-tier given their defininitions. Frankly outside of combat, HW may even be the better class.
Also the Gloomstalker getting a single attack and a single D8 to your overall damage once per combat, seems to be better then Colossus Slayer getting it once per turn (Polearmaster / Sentinel might get it on reaction attacks again) Gloomstalker is pretty weak in my book.
My last character was a Gloomstalker, and at 5th level that character took out a flameskull in the 1st round. Granted I crit one of the 3 shots (all hit with Hunters Mark). The DM looked defeated, and I just had the character slump back into the darkness... group had torches so he stayed in the back... so it was the Batman moment of the Gloomstalker. Good times.
DMing for a small party with a lvl5 gloomstalker lvl3 assassin. Sharpshooter, crossbow expert rolled good stats. He can get surprise so easily, auto crit on 4 attacks (if he hits but has advantage most of the time) balancing encounters is... lets say interesting. Between him and the greatweapon master zealot barbarian the party pumps out so much damage they regularly face encounters for way past their level.
@@nathanaelpoole1369 You don‘t GET surprise. Thats why I hate the assassin rogue, it doesn‘t actually work. The enemy is the one being surprised. And that depends on the lowest stealth roll in the entire party. So unless everyone is a rogue or the druid casts pass without trace, no one is going to be surprised. Ever. Unless you go in alone about 100 feet ahead of the party.
@@mayhemivory5730 that is exactly what happens, well around 80ft, with the wizards familiar perched in his on his shoulder so the rest of the party (just the wizard and barbarian) know when to move forward. He shoots moves 40 foot towards the party. I get that it is the enemy who gets the surprised condition.
The Gloom Stalker is definitely S Tier. You have to remember the dark vision/invisibility trait as a DM. It would make me smile when the Evoker couldn't sculpt spells around the ranger, because they couldn't see them.
I play a Horizon Walker in a campaign I'm in and my DM made the detect portal a passive ability which was very cool. It's definitely a subclass that I believe truly shines if your DM helps with certain story elements.
I think having as a passive ability is a really great idea. My initial thoughts were basically "when am I ever going to be in a position where I even know to use this ability, let alone can gain some info I didn't already know?" It has such a short range, and such a specific purpose for something that almost never even comes up, or just that no one really thinks to put random planar portals in their campaign. Making it a passive ability I think gives the power to DM to use it as a plot hook/point, while letting the player still feel like it was them that was useful. Without it being passive it's short range pretty much means you already know the portal is their because you pretty much have to be looking for it to be close enough.
@@asherandai1000 i have a setting in which most things from dnd exist, and there's plenty of wierd shit randomly put on the map. Because of you, Planar Portal is another entry on that list. Thank you.
My parties campaign is sent in the Moonshae isles, I’m a Ffolk descended ranger who’s grandparents were brutally slaughtered by the Eladrin during their initial invasion, so he’s harboring a bit of a grudge, and it bleeds into blatant racism but he’s working on it, the point is: he’s able to detect moonpools or whatever they are called that are basically Druid-protected wells of wild magic that can function as portals. Our party is dealing with an unseelie incursion unleashing goblins and other fey onto the isles, so my guys abilities shine during the main storyline, but side content I’m mostly sidelined since most of my abilities are focused on extra-planar enemies rather than standard enemies. So being a Horizon Walker is like, perfect story wise and gameplay wise
I think I speak for the whole community when I say this: We await your video on the subclasses of Tasha's Cauldron with great anticipation! May the day come swiftly!
@@KB-fk3jj she has a swarm of pixies and she knows each one by name. At first glance they look like a bunch of bugs which can cause people avoid her or be uncomfortable around her. She wants to be everyone's friend, but also gets nervous around people because she isn't used to meeting new people. Her charisma is - 3 which is becoming a big issue in the campaign because she's one of the only humans and they're trying to infiltrate a group of racist antimagic terrorists. She really hasn't been doing well in battle which kinda makes me want to try to fix her combat, but I like the visual concept of what I was going for so idk.
@@Naramiah That's nice! My character is a Lawful Evil Wood Elf, a Fey removed a curse from Cass and bestowed a rat familiar, which gives him the rat swarm. Eventually he'll change and become good to work with the party better. He's a hired killer from the Criminal background, combat is pretty good but I'm deciding on either the alert or elven accuracy feat
I honestly think that the gloomstalker is worse them monster slayer with the gloomstalker the third ability only lasts one round meanwhile the third ability of the monster slayer is permanent you don't need to concentrate on it like hunters mark and its a nice little boost to damage sure it's a d6 but what's more worth your buck a d8 and a 10 foot movement increases that lasts 6 seconds or a d6 that lasts until you take a short or long rest which is 8 hours or even more also the umbral sight ability is good If your fighting people with darkvision so your telling me that if I have no darkvision and a torch I can kick a gloomstalkers ass meanwhile with the hunter's sense I can see ways of making it very useful I'm not saying the gloomstalker is bad I just think that it doesn't deserve a S tier ranking is all.
My only knock against the Gloomstalker having played one is your invisible while in darkness to even creatures with darkvision. Can't tell you how many times I couldn't get blessed or healed with healing word because nobody could see me lol
@@thetwizard9290 if you watch the cleric one, they didnt even say all the abilities for all the subclasses, nor did they go as in depth as they do for these, so if they do it like this and go super in depth with the subclasses, itll be quite a few parts, but if they do it like the clerics then itll only be like 2 or 3 parts
Honestly, wizard abilities are so few in general that it shouldn't take terribly long. Most wizards all get access to the best things they have. Their spells.
Quick shoutout to the DM's out there that are willing to homebrew some of the lesser used subclasses because they're either niche or underpowered, but their players really want to play it anyway.
@@Dezbood I feel like creating a UA “domain” spells known for sorcerers is extremely important, just because a full spellcaster knowing only 15 spells known by max level is kinda ridiculous. Depending on the table and how often your group has encounters, I would also let sorcery points come back on a short rest, bc why the fuck not
Yeah as a DM i love updating/patching a subclass so that my player can truly enjoy it without feeling bad for picking something ineffective OR powergaming and going always for the TOP shit stuff :)
@@yooooo8600 I totally agree with you on the spell-list its just cool flavor to give a class extra spells especially if they normally dont have access to! (like call lightning for a Storm Ranger) BUT i disagree on the sorcery points... cause if you look at what they are, effectively they act as more spell slots! Irregardless if a player uses some points for metamagic..
@@MorgulDemonVegeta that's true. to be fair, tasha's cauldron of everything added a lot of magic items for sorcerers that involve metamagic so you could also just give your sorcerer some of those. but yeah i love subclasses that have specific spells
@@yooooo8600 me too man! Hand-picked spells for a class add so much personality to it :) (and Jeremy Crawford said they never balance classed based on spell access, so it isn't too gamebreaking to mess it up a bit) I'm a little biased towards Sorcerers, I like wizards but sorcerers I adore 🥰 and I really enjoyed the Shard items in Tasha's! So fucking good.. and the Shard of Shadowfell is BROKEN good hahaha 😅 shard of Feywild is nice for the extra spiciness of wild magic (I have this on a female Shadow sorceress I'm playing) and also shard of the realm of Good (or something) is very good with it's temporary HP on metamagic use! It's super useful it you have not healers on the team! PS: I'm currently working on a homebrew race, hagspawn, bastard children that didn't quite make it to Hags and I'm giving them some extended spells just like Eberron book, I'll message you with the Reddit link once I publish it ☺️ I'd love some feedback
Xanathar's ranger are near universally fantastic. I've never seen anyone complain about the capability of those subclasses. Honestly i might even wager that if hunter got unique subclass spells, that could pretty easily push it into the level that xanathar's subclasses are in.
I homerewed subclass spells for both hunter and beastmaster. It reaally helps the two classes. Although with the Tash's, the extra spells may make Beastmaster too powerful.
@@aganaom1712 I'd have to go look it up, Hunter's Mark was one the list, but frankly I think I would revise since some of the new spells in Tashsa's are a better fit.
I also came up with subclass spells for the Hunter and Beastmaster. Ranger Level Hunter Spells Beastmaster Spells 3rd Shield Find Familiar 5th See Invisibility Warding Bond 9th Slow Phantom Steed 13th Hallucinatory Terrain Dominate Beast 17th Hold Monster Awaken I followed three guidelines when choosing the subclass spells: 1) A spell can't be on the Ranger's spell list from the PHB and XGtE. i.) So no Hunter's Mark for the Hunter or Animal Friendship for the Beastmaster. 2) A spell shouldn't be already be a subclass spell for another subclass i.) A notable example of a duplicated spell is Banishment, which the Horizon Walker and Monster Slayer both have. 3) A spell should fit the themes of the subclass to which it belongs. i.) The Hunter gets spells that are about combat and hunting, while the Beastmaster gets spells that are about exploration and animals.
i think if i were to give hunter unique spells i would consider things along these lines: 3rd- expeditious retreat 5th- find steed or enhance ability 9th- protection from energy or dispel magic 13th- resilient sphere 17th- hold monster
The longer i play my horizon walker, the more i love ethereal step. At first, it felt like an extremely niche ability that would not come up all that much but after using it to: -phase through a roof with detect magic on to inspect someone's magic item collection in a heavily guarded room -sneak up on a very slippery rogue with 0 chance of being detected -walk out of a froghemoth's belly after being swallowed I can safely say this spell offers amazing utility combined with a very strong get out of jail free card
In a game I DMed for my family, my mom played a gloomstalker ranger and she was SO AMAZING. Her stats weren't even that fantastic but the way she roleplayed and played in combat made her character so incredibly interesting and powerful. 10/10 recommend the gloomstalker
I love the Monk, and since monk and ranger both use Wisdom, they're a great combo. Think Gloom Stalker/Way of Shadow, teleporting between areas of darkness and getting virtual invisibility without casting a spell or even using your action.
I am playing a multiclass character of these two (the dm actually let me mix and match some of the Long Death in there) as a vampire in a homebrew-friendly game. The multiclass completely makes the super scary night-based hunter sing. :)
I've curently got a 9 Kensei Monk/3 Monster Slayer and it's dope as hell. The Slayer's Prey I care less about the Slayer's Prey it's a great way to squeeze extra damage out with no concentration or resource limitations. The downside was when I hit level 8 I was Monk 5/Ranger 3 and the damage was capped, but then I started being to pick up all the sick monk stuff after that.
14:14 this is where Tasha's Favored Foe comes in. I honestly believe it is an ability people have yet to learn how to use. Instead of using your bonus action to Zhephyr Strike or Hunter's Mark you instead use Favored Foe for no additional action cost. That still leaves you with your bonus action for Planar Warrior
Hello. With Favored Foe, do you add an extra 1d4 on your next turn if you hit the marked creature again? If so, then a Ranger with a Long Bow could really do some damage. After three rounds you have gotten up to a 3d4 extra damage. That's way better than Slayer's Foe with a 1d6, which can't grow each turn. But there is no contraction which is nice. But, you could stake Favored Foe with Slayer's Foe! One I did was allow the Monster Slayer, once the marked creature got with 60feet to have the option to stop progressing the d4 damage, not take the 1d6 and no longer need concentration. This means the Ranger can keep pouring on the damage to a huge beast, and then have the option to cast a concentration spell as a bonus action. Thanks for reading
After looking over the internet, it appears that you are maxed out at a 1d4 with FF until the sixth level. That is fair. You could get up to 5d4 extra damage in five rounds and you still have 5 more to go!!! But, what I did was greatly upgrade the Hunter Sense feature for the Slayer. Once they get 60 feet from a monster they can use an action to learn their weaknesses. Once you do this, you can start adding d4 every round if you hit (must have the FF ability) It would be wise to try and get some distance from the beast and then set up a trap and just keep connecting with your long bow. Once the creature is then 60feet from you (that's too close for comfort) you can start staking Slayers Prey and FF!! But you must keep your concentration. You could stop progressing d4 and not take the 1d6 and no longer need concentration. What ever works best. If you are up to a 5d4, and the beast is getting close (60 feet), switch over to Slayer's Prey and keep that 5d4 going and you don't need to worry about concentration (Constitution saving throws). You will not get the 1d6, but uou are fine. But, you can't add anymore d4s. Now you can cast Z step as a bonus action and retreat if necessary. The monster is so close that it will soon attack you in melee combat. Hopefully you have damaged it enough. You may know that it is resistant to piercing damage, so all that damage was only doing 50% 😳 I agree that Monster Slayer is missing that over the top ability that will help the party slay a beast that requires multiple rounds to slay. C is a fair score.
Monster Slayer is a life-saver when dealing with a DM who is super against meta-gaming, or one who loves to homebrew enemies also when dealing with new or rarely used types of enemies
The Gloom Stalker is just so far and above the other subclasses in both roleplay and mechanics. Every ability feeds into the tone of the class and it's a total joy to play. its S-tier ranking is totally deserved.
They did not mention the big downside of Gloom Stalker though, which is that they are also invisible to their allies, and their invisibility is always on, even while they are unconsious and cannot be turned off even if you want to, which means, if you go down in combat, your healer can't heal you and you probably just die.
I honestly don't agree that they are so far past Horizon Walker, new Beast Master, and Fey Wanderer. They are incredibly good but not with the huge gap implied.
It's also not so far past Hunter in terms of damage as is represented in this video. With Colossus Slayer, you do eventually match the damage that is done by the Gloomstalker - 3 turns if no sharpshooter damage or hunter's mark is used by the GS, /4 turns if no sharpshooter but with hunter's mark by the GS /5 turns or so if Sharpshooter is used but no hunter's mark/6 turns if hunter's mark + Sharpshooter (assuming average damage is done by the 1d8 for Colossus Slayer). And this assumes the Hunter is not lucky enough to get off a Volley. If he does, he can greatly surpass the GS in damage. The Gloomstalker just has it's damage front loaded, which is very good assuming it hits. It sucks tremendously if you miss that extra attack. If you do, it's much better to be a Hunter. Edit: Of course, they get a second chance to hit at lvl 11, but that could also miss.
@@Exaltable The gloom stalker only gains bonus damage on the first round of combat, after that, they have nothing. Really the only reason why people like gloom stalker so much is that really poorly defined pseudo invisibility ability they have.
@@Klaital1 Not only is the gloomstalker due to it's invisibility harder to hit (and doesnt provoke opportunity attacks from targets that cant see it), and possibly hidden all the time, if it is sufficient high level or multiclassed into rogue, but also the only heal spell that does not affect you is "Healing Word", wich is the only heal spell that specifies "a creature you can see". Being invisible does not mean you cannot be touched and as per RAW you are aware of the position of every creature that is not hidden from you. One might reasobly argue that an uncociouss invisible gloom stalker might not give away its position, but it is also very easy to argue that an ally woudl remember the position from where it heard the final scream of the stalker getting downed.
High level Rangers (18+) get Feral senses, meaning they dont get disadvantage agaisnt targets they can't see, so yeah, this is still going to be a very very deadly battle wich confuses everyone else.
You know, almost everything about the Ranger subclasses are geared towards "one solid hit." If only the ranger got something called, oh idk, Foe Slayer at level two to help land one hit against a Favored Enemy type that you would have to choose being able to pick others later on.
Zephyr Strike/Planar Warrior is such a fun combo early on for Horizon Walker. Pop the spell on your first turn and then spend the rest of the combat kiting in and out of combat.
I played a variant Gloom stalker with both Sharpshooter and crossbow expert. With just hand crossbow I wrecked a lot of things in the first round of combat and proper positioning.
I actually really don't like crossbows on rangers. You are MUCH better off with a longbow and having bracers of archery. You have higher minimum damage that way and have a much larger range to work with. You don't have to worry about reloading with a longbow and basically gain either an ASI or feat slot when you drop crossbow expert. You should never be within 5 feet of someone and shooting realistically so having no disadvantage on ranged attacks while within 5 feet of the target doesn't really do anything. That ASI can be out to much better using even just adding to your Wisdom thereby not only increasing your spell dc, but actually making your initiative bonus higher. On too of something like alert, you can get up to a +15 to initiative giving you an almost guarantee that you'll act first in combat. That maxed with some multi-classing can make the build extremely deadly. I personally prefer 3 Assassination Rogue/3 Gloomstalker Ranger/ 14 Battlemaster Fighter build. You can, even at level 9, do a high damage in the first round of combat. You'll even still be able to apply pressure to the enemy in the following rounds if your party doesn't decimate the enemy in one turn
Just did the math and rolls and ended up at 231 damage in one turn at ninth level with 3 in Rogue, 3 in Ranger, and 3 in Fighter though I think my math may be off. I ended up with 16d6, 24d8, then added 42 from the six attacks with +7 from having 20 dexterity and 2 from bracers of archery. Let me know if my math is wrong
@@brandonvanscoycloud6469 this is how i play gloomstalkers as well. Very deadly especially if you're playing solo, playing in the right party or your party cooperates. I prefer a different spread though: 12 battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker and 5 assassin. I gain uncanny dodge and extra 1d6 sneak attack dmg this way (losing 1 indomitable use).
@@brandonvanscoycloud6469 i am curious as to how you can reach 6 attacks when you dont have extra atk yet with this spread. the most you'll.have 1st round is 4 with action surge.
I usually just throw down Hunter's Mark round 1 and then the rounds afterwards use the planar warrior as my bonus action to deal the d6 and the d8 damage
Yeah I really don’t understand giving it crap for not synergizing with hunters mark. it takes your bonus action to use, okay... are you saying you’re keeping your mark on something more then one or 2 rounds?
@@pivotcreator2 thats's the thing; most encounters are 2-4 rounds, with multiple enemy creatures. imagine each creature lives 1-3 rounds. Turn 1 you use HM on one creature, turn 2 planar warrior; turn 3 creatre dead, you move HM, turn 4 (if it gets there) use of planar warrior, end of encounter. So in order to get 1 or 2 turns of d6 + d8, you used 1 spell slot; and took two turns just doing a d6 instead of a d8. Sure if you are against a boss that will stay up 3+ rounds it is great to use, but otherwise losing a spell slot just for 1 assured turn of usefulness is not worth; even less when planar warrior goes up.
You really don’t even need to use hunters mark with this subclass. You basically get a better hunters mark. This frees your concentration to use better things.
@@jareddavidson6654 It also helps if you choose to use the optional Favored Foe featured in place of Favored Enemy, since FF is treated as concentration (thus also not stacking with HM) but doesn't use an action to proc, leaving it up to use with PW
Once again with the Horizon Walker we see that with their bonus action additional d8, we could then also use new favored foe for another d4 - d8 depending on your level which makes the choice of not going for hunter's mark a little more viable as well.
I love the image of a hasted sharpshooter horizon walker just walking through the battlefield, teleporting at each step and shooting an arrow at a different target after each teleport. Maybe not mechanically efficient, but still a very cool concept.
I've been playing a Tasha's Beast Master for about a month and I'd definitely put it in S tier. It's an absolutely amazing generalist class, making a great secondary healer and tank, and still doing enough damage to be considered a primary front-line character. Doing Druidic Warrior for Shillelagh and Guidance and making WIS your primary stat seems to be optimal for a melee Beast Master.
I love the counter so much guys! You guys do great but having the ability to laugh at your own mistakes and just go with it says so much (good) about you!
It is amazing how all of the Drow suddenly live in well lit rooms once I started playing a Gloom Stalker. (Yes, that seems to be the response to my character always being invisible in the dark.)
I think the Monster Slayer deserves to be on the same level as Horizon Walker. It is very different from other Rangers, focusing more on defensive features, but my experience as a player and DM leads me to think that defensive features tend to scale better with difficult content than DPR often does. +1d6 on saving throws is fantastic and should include concentration according to how it is written, which is a huge benefit for higher level Ranger casting. And people really should read what Protection from Evil and Good does and which creature types if effects. That's a list of who's who of scary monsters and effects.
Calling the rankings now, I think both are solid B, not quite as good as HW or GS, but still solid and Fey Wanderer can actually make your ranger sociable instead of just straight dumping CHA. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.
@@noahmehringer29 I actually think Fey Wanderer is at least comparable to the Horizon Walker, if not better. The bonus spells are roughly equivalent, and the bonus damage abilities, while better in terms of damage for the HW, doesn't require your bonus action for the FW and isn't restricted to 30 ft like HW. And the other features are roughly equivalent overall, with abilities like Distant Strike and Spectral Defense for HW being very good balanced by Detect Portal and a once per rest, one turn etherealness being very situational, while FW gets summon fey for free and can cast it without components and do it for free once per rest, an Uno Reverse on charm/frighten effects (including on the creature that tried to force that save), free bonus to social skills, and getting free misty steps and the ability to take someone with you may not be as strong but are good abilities across the board. Btw, Druidic Warrior fighting style/Magic Initiate Druid to grab Shillelagh to go Wisdom primary in this subclass is hilarious.
For those wondering the extra attack on Dread Ambusher, as I hear a lot of people at my table ask about it. Say you have a Heavy Crossbow (1d10) If you trigger your extra attack with Dread Ambusher and you hit, you deal 1d10 + your dexterity modifier + 1d8. It's a very strong first turn ability.
More levels in battlemaster fighter is better. 12 battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker, 5 assassin. Can do 8 attacks 1st round at 17th level and attach maneuver dmg+effects to 5-7 attacks (7 with martial adept and superior technique fighting style).
I’m currently 3 dip assassin, 3 dip monster hunter fighter (for superiority dice/extra skills,) 6 level gloom stalker. Opening round, two attacks standard, bonus action dual wield attack, action surge for two attacks, extra attack from gloom stalker. All crits if I go first, with advantage on and wisdom to initiative. Gloom stalker has lots of great multi class combos.
Holy wow!! Kelly got Monty to upgrade Planestalker - fantastic example of how these two DO think differently and thus compliment each other 🥰. Love your different takes on stuff. I know you don’t grade in RP stuff or on niche abilities so much, but I like when you remind players that these neat niche abilities ( if they are good) - also can give GMs ideas on how to vary their campaigns to be different than just straight ahead , uncomplicated combat 👍
The monster slayer should be rewarded for exploiting enemy weakneses by dealing even more damage, or gaining advantage, or adding some status effect when enemy weakneses are exploited
I'd like to add something for using etherialness, you can Use it to bypass traps, get into enemy back lines, transport items you are holding like bombs or corrupt Magic items, Walk or dash through walls, or impassible objects in the material plane, six seconds of invisibility unless they can see the etherial plane, getting through natural hazards that misty step can't cover, and so on
So my very first character I ever made in my first d&d campaign is a Monster Slayer Ranger, and while I am not very experienced he has been the backbone of many encounters we had with our first time dm, we've been running this campaign for about half a year and most campaigns are trivialized once my character got its stuff online, the ability to identify creatures and finding out resistances and weaknesses has become very useful as late when i remember it, it might just be the campaign where he's useful because its somewhat of a mystery, and i made him a soldier as a background specifically a scout, so i suppose i lucked out in that synergy in my inexperience, ive been able to use most features and spells at some point to positive effect in the campaign I dont rp him really much as a monster slayer type, having a different feel to him but its there, he's the silent one of the group (fits my personality so it would be easier for me to get into the game), I have fun with him though, also helps that our dm let us start with a lower level magic item for i campaign and i went with the Cloak of Elven Kind so
With the monster slayer i think it would be better of instead of learning resistances and immunities you should learn strengths and weaknesses, which would be up to the DM to decide. For example, you could use it on a vampire and learn that they die in water
One good thing about the Ranger is this - d10 hit die. Given the same constitution modifier, it can have the same hp as a fighter of a paladin, making it a good backup tank, as Half Plate armor has 17 AC with 14 Dexterity.
Spoiler: There are portals in Descent into Avernus. Horizon Walker feels useful. -Hunter needs to upped 1 tier. It doesn't outright suck, but I agree that Horizon Walker and Gloom Stalker are better, but Monster Slayer is too specialized. Hunter is a good, solid, & vetsatile middle tier subclass! It's needs to a "B"!
The reasoning for hunter being C is that there is never any hypothetical scenario where it feels S. Its just not strong in a meaningful way. It can't compete with the higher ranked subclasses even under its best conditions.
@@Casino220 I dont really understand it tbh... Gloomstalker is almost always multiclassed, and its all about frontloading the first round of combat... Gloomstalker/Assasin with 3 attacks and autocrits along with sharpshooter seems the most common.... But doing the same with a rogue/hunter you get much more consistent damage throughout the entire fight and not just the first round of it....
BWAHAHA - I wouldn’t have even noticed the wrong name usage if the hilarious “Incorrect Name Use” counter didn’t come up. You two have such a fun sense of humor. It’s nice to see you having fun and not taking yourselves too seriously. Thanks for the smile.
One of the things I like about Monster Slayer is the idea of spamming the ability where you sense Resistances in social situations. As a DM I love throwing in NPCs that are secretly much more powerful than they let on and when I think of Monster Slayer I think of Vampires and Werewolves. The narrative of the Monster Slayer looking at the charming prince and noticing it's suspicious immunity to non-silver damage or the vampire resistances and the social aspect of being able to subtly sus out if an NPC is more than what it seems is delightful to me. That said with the Blood Hunter's most recent iteration being as satisfying as it is the characters that I'd typically have been inclined to play a Monster Slayer for are almost always going to be a Blood Hunter instead. ^^'
I really appreciate the research & experience you put into your videos! I’ll gladly wait for the 3rd instalment. Also, I tend to always listen to you at 1.25 or 1.5 playback speed, & I used to think of that as a drawback, but I realized in this video that the reason I can even do that is because of your diction & clarity of thought, so thank you to your theatre training & hard work!
So does the Horizon Walker, if they could collect Booming Blade, make it a better option since you can "BAMF" away requiring the target to chase after you if they want to hurt you thus triggering Booming Blade?
As a side thought with the way dnd 5e deals with resistences and vulnerabilities inherintely makes it worse. If vulnerabilities and immunities were more common you could actually class it as s class just because it allows your party to fight effectively.
An additional note regarding gloomstalker - creatures with blindsight and truesight, even very powerful creatures, tend to have it within a certain range. A gloomstalker with a longbow or heavy crossbow and the sharpshooter feat can more easily stay out of a 60 or 120 foot blindsight range, so that they are still invisible.
I really like these videos but there is something that irks me a little about their rankings. They always deem it as a negative when you have to choose what you're going to do with your actions/bonus actions and I fundamentally disagree with that perspective. Having one obvious thing to do every turn is boring, I want to make meaningful choices.
I've been waiting for this video since the first part - I was curious for the argumentation for the Gloomstalker and the Horizon Walker, given that Kelly and Marty vindicated the Hunter's C ranking with their existence, and well... in my opinion, it falls short. When comparing the rating for the Hunter and the Gloomstalker, it becomes rather obvious that an exciting and unique class concept (which the Gloomstalker, compared to the bland Hunter, definitely has) is a big hidden factor in the ranking. Here's my gripes with the video: - 'If you're in a party where everybody has darkvision, you can always have advantage' - for starters, arguing that this is good for parties where everybody has darkvision is per definition a niche (B-tier) benefit. Second, this argument means that a party could facilitate it so every encounter is during the night / in dark areas, which is just... not realistic at all. Hey guys, the king has summoned you to his totally not ambush scenario, oh well, do you mind if we come at night and actually could we please meet in the basement? ...in fact, I'd argue that fighting in true darkness is rather rare in D&D; you usually have either dim or bright light to work with. Yes, you might be able to facilitate Darkness in some encounters, i.e. by snuffing out torches in the typical dungeon - but it is *very* likely that one or multiple party members would have to expend actions and/or spells during combat to do so (and if your enemies rely on light, they might just counter those efforts). Even when you're in complete darkness, there's also a minor downside - allies can't reliably heal or buff you. - The amount of extra damage you get for your Dread Ambusher extra attack in your first round typically is 1x weapon damage + 1x Hunter's Mark when compared to a Hunter with Colossus Slayer, which means the damage likely breaks even in the 3rd turn. Dread Ambusher is great against multiple enemies, where taking somebody off the board early is always more desirable, but clearly inferior during battles against few strong foes (or long battles in general). - Stalker's Flurry is great in combination with Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master. But if you don't miss attacks it is useless (If you're playing a typical bow ranger with 20 DEX and +2 to ATT - how often do you miss?), and it is redundant if a Gloom Stalker is actually in darkness and already has advantage on ATT rolls anyway. - Shadowy Dodge is also nice, but I think it is clearly inferior to the Hunter's Uncanny Dodge. Don't get me wrong, the Gloomstalker is great, and I'd agree the S ranking is justified. You'll sometimes have blank advantage and invisibility, and to do a lot of damage early is great when fighting against multiple enemies. The Gloom Stalker's spell selection is also pretty darn good. But Umbral Sight is somewhat situational as a combat ability, and it cannibalizes on Stalker's Flurry. But the C-ranking for the Hunter? According to the rating scale - 'Limited features which rarely come up in play, doesn't synergize with base class features'? Sorry, but that is just nonsense. The Gloomstalker might be superior, in particular utility-wise (pairing him up with a rogue for an infiltration duo is amazeballs), but on a broader level those two classes aren't nearly that far apart.
Currently playing my first ever D&D campaign and I'm playing Fleet, a Tabaxi Gloomstalker, slightly influenced by Veo but with his own flavor. I love it so much, he's a joy to play. He gained his Gloomstalker abilities by the boon of a fairy queen and just kind of fades into invisibility whenever he enters shadow. An Outlander who is not really interested in social graces, he's nervous and sometimes scared in social situations but he thrives the moment he jumps into the trees, longbow in hand. He's searching for his twin sister, who left home to become an adventurer but who hasn't been heard from in a while.
I had to do a double take when reading your character story... One of the players at my table is playing a Flight, a Tabaxi Circle of Dreams Druid who left home to seek adventure away from her overprotective twin brother...
This video has made me wonder if my idea for a character inspired by Grimalkin the witch assassin from The Last Apprentice novels, should perhaps be a Gloom Stalker. I was initially thinking Arcane Trickster rogue, but Grimalkin does like to fight her enemies head on and makes many fast attacks, doesn't seem to use much magic in the style of cantrips, and she spends a lot of her time in the wilderness. Some of those GS spells are a good fit too.
Can't wait for the Tasha's videos. The Tasha's beast master lets you fly around on a human-sized (non-fire-breathing unfortunately) dragon at level 3 permanently (as long as you're a small race), that's so cool it gets s rank for pure style.
@@Hesauce I hereby demand that the Monster Hunter class must use a ridiculously oversized weapon made from the organs and bones of monsters they've slain. Oh, and they acquire proficiency with a Hunting Horn at third level.
My current Pc is a ranger I fully intended on making a Monster Slayer. Then, we got very attached to our axebeaks and now I’m having a blast playing my beastmaster.
Rangers need a bit more support for melee combat. Multiattack Defense for Hunter is pretty good at that, but it comes with the rather large opportunity cost of having to be a Hunter instead of nearly anything else.
The Horizon Walker Detect Portal ability may seem niche, but when my DM described the villain using Dimension Door to escape my party, it became very useful. Detect Portal has a mile+ range- far beyond the 500ft range of Dimension door. My HW was able to track the where the villain exited his mini dimension pocket thing, with ease. Now, I can imagine a determined DM ruling against this, but it makes a use for Detect Portal, out of a much more common situation in DnD than planes-hopping.
I wish this was RAW, because teleportation detection or finding where a Demi plane or rope trick is has some interesting applications, but unfortunately dimension door doesn’t actually open to a pocket dimension or create a portal
With the horizon walker you could teleport in, make an attack, then teleport out and used a ranged attack from your off hand as a dual wielded such as a thrown weapon or a hand crossbow or a pistol depending on the setting. You could also roleplay it that the ranged attack is being sent back through your teleport rift as it is closing.
We played that if gloomstalker is fighting someone with Devilsight - that Warlock isn’t using Darkvision to see so then the gloomstalker will not be invisible to them.
Another thing to consider for meele Horizon walkers is that you can throw a weapon to trigger the Distant Strike Feature in order to disengage from meele. Now that I think about it, a Thrown Weapon Fighting Horizen Walker would be very cool.
I don't know if they forgot it or if they'll make a part 3 honestly but it makes me sad. Maybe these videos were recorded before those were released? I don't know
We did not forget. As we've said repeatedly, we'll be covering thee new Tasha's subclasses once we've actually seen them in play. They only came out 2 months ago.
I played a duelist Horizon Walker with the mobile feat in a Curse of Strahd campaign and it was probably the most fun character I've ever played. The only complaint I had was that there were too many options to use your bonus action on, but by the time I had mobile, I was all over the map every battle and it was a blast!
See, I've always struggled with gloom stalker invisibility since it could be a straight debuff. Youre in darkness, no one has a light source because the whole party has dark vision and never prepped light source, and the enemy has blind sight, tremorsense, etc.. Congrats, your allies can't buff you and you gain nothing against the enemy.
How many enemies are going to have both blind sight and Tremor sense? Plus some buff spells are touch based that don't require sight (Haste). Also most adventurers start with a pack of some kind that usually includes torches. And any magic user probably has at least one fire spell or a spell that will illuminate an area. If a DM throws a monster or pack of monsters at the party that has blindsight, tremor sense or truesight, and you're not above level 7, you're either playing a really gritty game, or the DM built the encounter specifically to f@#$ your party.
@@noahmehringer29 from haste "...A willing creature you can see within range..." so no, haste wouldn't work. And correction, itd only be blindsight or true sight. And a gray ooze, which has blindsight and would counteract the invisibility, is present in waterdeep dragon heist in like the second dungeon. Also 1.) youre assuming the players remember they have torches. 2.) You're asking a player to give up a hand and a whole turn to light the torch. Or ask them to give up a cantrip slot for light, even though if you were any other subclass this wouldn't be an issue. 3.) Even barring the situation where you don't get the benefits from the invisibility, the defensive aspect of it is majorly reduced in power if you're using the suggested sharpshooter for the additional attack. And advantage is pretty easy to get access to anyway. So its not as strong as one would think, while also having the debuff of little to no buffs from allies. 4.) I range a one-shot boss fight with the tashas alternate abilities and the ranger pretty much stayed invisible the whole time already with natures veil. So higher levels the thunder is SERIOUSLY reduced.
Currently playing a Horizon Walker. How I handle the hunter mark, planer worrier thing is pick the beefiest enemy round one and hit them with hunters mark and for the next rounds use planers till they die. another advantage of planer worrier that was not mentioned is that force damage is rarely resisted when most of you weapon damage might.
Monster Slayer and Horizon Walker received interesting buff with Tasha. Favored Foe doesn't require bonus action, but competes wih HMark for concentration. So these two can now squeeze in additional damage without sacrificing their 3rd lvl abilities, which is great.
One thing about the Horizon Walker teleport not mentioned: If you start your turn grappled, restrained, etc, you can escape that condition before attacking for free.
Yo what's up my fellow Optimancer didn't know you watch These guys
I had a Horizon Walker pre-Tasha's, and a monk. The HW out maneuvered the monk hands down, and the monk took the mobility feat. Force damage also overcomes most resistances.
And no spell components to deal with either. They're unbelievably hard to pin down.
This would also help them get past things like Wall of force, or Force cage (granted you have to make a save/check to get through it but if you target three different creatures in a turn, you could have three chances to break out.
@@noahmehringer29 Personally, while I agree Gloomstalker is slightly better, I think both are S-tier given their defininitions. Frankly outside of combat, HW may even be the better class.
When you say, "the weakest feature here is getting proficiency is Wisdom saving throws." That really says a lot.
especially given how wisdom will probably be one of a ranger's best abilities, and is an extremely common saving throw.
@@shaneconnolly4747 Exactly! Well said.
@@shaneconnolly4747
Not to mention if you already have proficiency in it, you can pick between Charisma or Intelligence.
Also the Gloomstalker getting a single attack and a single D8 to your overall damage once per combat, seems to be better then Colossus Slayer getting it once per turn (Polearmaster / Sentinel might get it on reaction attacks again) Gloomstalker is pretty weak in my book.
@@greybearddnd2417 and free advantage to all attacks made in darkness, which varies widely between campaigns.
My last character was a Gloomstalker, and at 5th level that character took out a flameskull in the 1st round. Granted I crit one of the 3 shots (all hit with Hunters Mark). The DM looked defeated, and I just had the character slump back into the darkness... group had torches so he stayed in the back... so it was the Batman moment of the Gloomstalker. Good times.
My parents were killed by bandits outside the gladiator arena... Now I live in the Shadows killing whatever I feel is needed.
I'm Batman
DMing for a small party with a lvl5 gloomstalker lvl3 assassin. Sharpshooter, crossbow expert rolled good stats. He can get surprise so easily, auto crit on 4 attacks (if he hits but has advantage most of the time) balancing encounters is... lets say interesting. Between him and the greatweapon master zealot barbarian the party pumps out so much damage they regularly face encounters for way past their level.
@@nathanaelpoole1369 You don‘t GET surprise. Thats why I hate the assassin rogue, it doesn‘t actually work. The enemy is the one being surprised. And that depends on the lowest stealth roll in the entire party. So unless everyone is a rogue or the druid casts pass without trace, no one is going to be surprised. Ever. Unless you go in alone about 100 feet ahead of the party.
@@mayhemivory5730 that is exactly what happens, well around 80ft, with the wizards familiar perched in his on his shoulder so the rest of the party (just the wizard and barbarian) know when to move forward. He shoots moves 40 foot towards the party. I get that it is the enemy who gets the surprised condition.
Kelly: * Calls the Monster Slayer a Monster Hunter *
Me, not realizing I usually say it wrong too: "I'll allow it"
Maybe they play too much Monster Hunter from capcom and it's stuck with them.
only if they travel with a 3 foot tall tabaxi sidekick.
The fact that I would not have noticed either (if not for the prompts) kinda tells you everything about how impactful this subclass is.
I thought Monster Hunter was a Fighter homebrew?
Kelly talks Monty into upgrading his ranking ??? Inconceivable !
It happens sometimes
The Gloom Stalker is definitely S Tier. You have to remember the dark vision/invisibility trait as a DM. It would make me smile when the Evoker couldn't sculpt spells around the ranger, because they couldn't see them.
HOLY MOLY KELLY MADE MONTY CHANGE IDEA! THE END IS NIGH!
kek
It’s happened a few times
In the Bard video he changes Monty’s mind twice!
I know, right? Lol
Gloom Stalker, gets a spell called "semen"?
I play a Horizon Walker in a campaign I'm in and my DM made the detect portal a passive ability which was very cool. It's definitely a subclass that I believe truly shines if your DM helps with certain story elements.
I think having as a passive ability is a really great idea. My initial thoughts were basically "when am I ever going to be in a position where I even know to use this ability, let alone can gain some info I didn't already know?"
It has such a short range, and such a specific purpose for something that almost never even comes up, or just that no one really thinks to put random planar portals in their campaign. Making it a passive ability I think gives the power to DM to use it as a plot hook/point, while letting the player still feel like it was them that was useful. Without it being passive it's short range pretty much means you already know the portal is their because you pretty much have to be looking for it to be close enough.
@@asherandai1000 i have a setting in which most things from dnd exist, and there's plenty of wierd shit randomly put on the map.
Because of you, Planar Portal is another entry on that list. Thank you.
My parties campaign is sent in the Moonshae isles, I’m a Ffolk descended ranger who’s grandparents were brutally slaughtered by the Eladrin during their initial invasion, so he’s harboring a bit of a grudge, and it bleeds into blatant racism but he’s working on it, the point is: he’s able to detect moonpools or whatever they are called that are basically Druid-protected wells of wild magic that can function as portals. Our party is dealing with an unseelie incursion unleashing goblins and other fey onto the isles, so my guys abilities shine during the main storyline, but side content I’m mostly sidelined since most of my abilities are focused on extra-planar enemies rather than standard enemies. So being a Horizon Walker is like, perfect story wise and gameplay wise
Holy shit the Monster Hunter counter. I was dying laughing. I really appreciate the self-deprecation humor.
Monty fixed it, you guys. Lol
It was either that or do it all over again. That's how you turn lead into gold.
My wife was giving me the side eye as I watched it cracking up
@@andrewmanzo8217 so one of them is a transmutation wizard?
@@michaelsinclair1343 probably Monty, cause there’s no way Kelly isn’t an evoker
I think I speak for the whole community when I say this:
We await your video on the subclasses of Tasha's Cauldron with great anticipation! May the day come swiftly!
Yes! I just started a campaign with a swarmkeeper and I'd like to hear what they say about it.
@@Naramiah Same here, tell me about your character
@@KB-fk3jj she has a swarm of pixies and she knows each one by name. At first glance they look like a bunch of bugs which can cause people avoid her or be uncomfortable around her. She wants to be everyone's friend, but also gets nervous around people because she isn't used to meeting new people. Her charisma is - 3 which is becoming a big issue in the campaign because she's one of the only humans and they're trying to infiltrate a group of racist antimagic terrorists. She really hasn't been doing well in battle which kinda makes me want to try to fix her combat, but I like the visual concept of what I was going for so idk.
@@KB-fk3jj tell me about your character!
@@Naramiah That's nice!
My character is a Lawful Evil Wood Elf, a Fey removed a curse from Cass and bestowed a rat familiar, which gives him the rat swarm. Eventually he'll change and become good to work with the party better.
He's a hired killer from the Criminal background, combat is pretty good but I'm deciding on either the alert or elven accuracy feat
"Bamf", the technical term for short teleports in D&D. 😁
I've used this term while playing, but don't know where I've picked it up from 😆
@@DieDieNacho It was popularized from Nightcrawler, you read X-men?
@@ZacTheLit Oh yeah, that's very true! Thanks, I hadn't made that connection, makes a lot of sense.
Oh yeah it’s supposedly the noise nightcrawler makes when he teleports
Nightcrawler is also by far the coolest X-Man
@@bennoble4517 agreed
Monster Hunter is a fantastic franchise that should get more recognition.
I agree
Monster Hunter World really helped with that. it's MUCH more mainstream that it was before in the west, but MH was always pretty big in Japan.
Shame they didn't mold the subclass after the bow or dual blades in monster hunter. That would be a fun ranger to play.
It's getting it's own movie, but it might flop.
I honestly think that the gloomstalker is worse them monster slayer with the gloomstalker the third ability only lasts one round meanwhile the third ability of the monster slayer is permanent you don't need to concentrate on it like hunters mark and its a nice little boost to damage sure it's a d6 but what's more worth your buck a d8 and a 10 foot movement increases that lasts 6 seconds or a d6 that lasts until you take a short or long rest which is 8 hours or even more also the umbral sight ability is good If your fighting people with darkvision so your telling me that if I have no darkvision and a torch I can kick a gloomstalkers ass meanwhile with the hunter's sense I can see ways of making it very useful I'm not saying the gloomstalker is bad I just think that it doesn't deserve a S tier ranking is all.
My only knock against the Gloomstalker having played one is your invisible while in darkness to even creatures with darkvision. Can't tell you how many times I couldn't get blessed or healed with healing word because nobody could see me lol
These guys are like if Dungeons and Dragons had guidance counselors.
"I'm afraid we'll have to give liberal arts a C Tier"
Loving these discussions! Can't wait for the Wizard 8 part video because of the billion schools they have
Hahahaha
It has WAY less than the cleric, and they had only 2-3 videos
@@thetwizard9290 if you watch the cleric one, they didnt even say all the abilities for all the subclasses, nor did they go as in depth as they do for these, so if they do it like this and go super in depth with the subclasses, itll be quite a few parts, but if they do it like the clerics then itll only be like 2 or 3 parts
@@Sonofapollo234 you are right
Honestly, wizard abilities are so few in general that it shouldn't take terribly long. Most wizards all get access to the best things they have. Their spells.
Quick shoutout to the DM's out there that are willing to homebrew some of the lesser used subclasses because they're either niche or underpowered, but their players really want to play it anyway.
@@Dezbood I feel like creating a UA “domain” spells known for sorcerers is extremely important, just because a full spellcaster knowing only 15 spells known by max level is kinda ridiculous. Depending on the table and how often your group has encounters, I would also let sorcery points come back on a short rest, bc why the fuck not
Yeah as a DM i love updating/patching a subclass so that my player can truly enjoy it without feeling bad for picking something ineffective OR powergaming and going always for the TOP shit stuff :)
@@yooooo8600 I totally agree with you on the spell-list its just cool flavor to give a class extra spells especially if they normally dont have access to! (like call lightning for a Storm Ranger) BUT i disagree on the sorcery points... cause if you look at what they are, effectively they act as more spell slots! Irregardless if a player uses some points for metamagic..
@@MorgulDemonVegeta that's true. to be fair, tasha's cauldron of everything added a lot of magic items for sorcerers that involve metamagic so you could also just give your sorcerer some of those. but yeah i love subclasses that have specific spells
@@yooooo8600 me too man! Hand-picked spells for a class add so much personality to it :)
(and Jeremy Crawford said they never balance classed based on spell access, so it isn't too gamebreaking to mess it up a bit)
I'm a little biased towards Sorcerers, I like wizards but sorcerers I adore 🥰 and I really enjoyed the Shard items in Tasha's! So fucking good.. and the Shard of Shadowfell is BROKEN good hahaha 😅 shard of Feywild is nice for the extra spiciness of wild magic (I have this on a female Shadow sorceress I'm playing) and also shard of the realm of Good (or something) is very good with it's temporary HP on metamagic use! It's super useful it you have not healers on the team!
PS: I'm currently working on a homebrew race, hagspawn, bastard children that didn't quite make it to Hags and I'm giving them some extended spells just like Eberron book, I'll message you with the Reddit link once I publish it ☺️ I'd love some feedback
Xanathar's ranger are near universally fantastic. I've never seen anyone complain about the capability of those subclasses.
Honestly i might even wager that if hunter got unique subclass spells, that could pretty easily push it into the level that xanathar's subclasses are in.
I homerewed subclass spells for both hunter and beastmaster. It reaally helps the two classes. Although with the Tash's, the extra spells may make Beastmaster too powerful.
@@brettmajeske3525 what spells did you give hunter if you dont mind my asking?
@@aganaom1712 I'd have to go look it up, Hunter's Mark was one the list, but frankly I think I would revise since some of the new spells in Tashsa's are a better fit.
I also came up with subclass spells for the Hunter and Beastmaster.
Ranger Level Hunter Spells Beastmaster Spells
3rd Shield Find Familiar
5th See Invisibility Warding Bond
9th Slow Phantom Steed
13th Hallucinatory Terrain Dominate Beast
17th Hold Monster Awaken
I followed three guidelines when choosing the subclass spells:
1) A spell can't be on the Ranger's spell list from the PHB and XGtE.
i.) So no Hunter's Mark for the Hunter or Animal Friendship for the Beastmaster.
2) A spell shouldn't be already be a subclass spell for another subclass
i.) A notable example of a duplicated spell is Banishment, which the Horizon Walker and Monster Slayer both have.
3) A spell should fit the themes of the subclass to which it belongs.
i.) The Hunter gets spells that are about combat and hunting, while the Beastmaster gets spells that are about exploration and animals.
i think if i were to give hunter unique spells i would consider things along these lines:
3rd- expeditious retreat
5th- find steed or enhance ability
9th- protection from energy or dispel magic
13th- resilient sphere
17th- hold monster
The longer i play my horizon walker, the more i love ethereal step. At first, it felt like an extremely niche ability that would not come up all that much but after using it to:
-phase through a roof with detect magic on to inspect someone's magic item collection in a heavily guarded room
-sneak up on a very slippery rogue with 0 chance of being detected
-walk out of a froghemoth's belly after being swallowed
I can safely say this spell offers amazing utility combined with a very strong get out of jail free card
When he said Seeming, I did not hear Seeming.
Same
oh thank god im not alone
i had to pause and check comments to double check
100% heard something else and was like "excuse me???" lol
Bruh I've been waiting for your validation
In a game I DMed for my family, my mom played a gloomstalker ranger and she was SO AMAZING. Her stats weren't even that fantastic but the way she roleplayed and played in combat made her character so incredibly interesting and powerful. 10/10 recommend the gloomstalker
I am now emotionally stronger after watching the first part of this video and I am ready for the second
I love the Monk, and since monk and ranger both use Wisdom, they're a great combo. Think Gloom Stalker/Way of Shadow, teleporting between areas of darkness and getting virtual invisibility without casting a spell or even using your action.
I am playing a multiclass character of these two (the dm actually let me mix and match some of the Long Death in there) as a vampire in a homebrew-friendly game. The multiclass completely makes the super scary night-based hunter sing. :)
I've curently got a 9 Kensei Monk/3 Monster Slayer and it's dope as hell.
The Slayer's Prey I care less about the Slayer's Prey it's a great way to squeeze extra damage out with no concentration or resource limitations. The downside was when I hit level 8 I was Monk 5/Ranger 3 and the damage was capped, but then I started being to pick up all the sick monk stuff after that.
You need a little sneak attack on that mix
14:14 this is where Tasha's Favored Foe comes in. I honestly believe it is an ability people have yet to learn how to use. Instead of using your bonus action to Zhephyr Strike or Hunter's Mark you instead use Favored Foe for no additional action cost. That still leaves you with your bonus action for Planar Warrior
Unfortunately it's counted as Concentration but it is more relevant than Favored Enemy which is only one type of creature.
Hello.
With Favored Foe, do you add an extra 1d4 on your next turn if you hit the marked creature again?
If so, then a Ranger with a Long Bow could really do some damage.
After three rounds you have gotten up to a 3d4 extra damage.
That's way better than Slayer's Foe with a 1d6, which can't grow each turn. But there is no contraction which is nice.
But, you could stake Favored Foe with Slayer's Foe!
One I did was allow the Monster Slayer, once the marked creature got with 60feet to have the option to stop progressing the d4 damage, not take the 1d6 and no longer need concentration.
This means the Ranger can keep pouring on the damage to a huge beast, and then have the option to cast a concentration spell as a bonus action.
Thanks for reading
After looking over the internet, it appears that you are maxed out at a 1d4 with FF until the sixth level.
That is fair. You could get up to 5d4 extra damage in five rounds and you still have 5 more to go!!!
But, what I did was greatly upgrade the Hunter Sense feature for the Slayer.
Once they get 60 feet from a monster they can use an action to learn their weaknesses. Once you do this, you can start adding d4 every round if you hit (must have the FF ability)
It would be wise to try and get some distance from the beast and then set up a trap and just keep connecting with your long bow.
Once the creature is then 60feet from you (that's too close for comfort) you can start staking Slayers Prey and FF!!
But you must keep your concentration.
You could stop progressing d4 and not take the 1d6 and no longer need concentration.
What ever works best. If you are up to a 5d4, and the beast is getting close (60 feet), switch over to Slayer's Prey and keep that 5d4 going and you don't need to worry about concentration (Constitution saving throws). You will not get the 1d6, but uou are fine. But, you can't add anymore d4s. Now you can cast Z step as a bonus action and retreat if necessary.
The monster is so close that it will soon attack you in melee combat. Hopefully you have damaged it enough. You may know that it is resistant to piercing damage, so all that damage was only doing 50% 😳
I agree that Monster Slayer is missing that over the top ability that will help the party slay a beast that requires multiple rounds to slay.
C is a fair score.
Monster Slayer is a life-saver when dealing with a DM who is super against meta-gaming, or one who loves to homebrew enemies
also when dealing with new or rarely used types of enemies
#Facts
The Gloom Stalker is just so far and above the other subclasses in both roleplay and mechanics. Every ability feeds into the tone of the class and it's a total joy to play. its S-tier ranking is totally deserved.
They did not mention the big downside of Gloom Stalker though, which is that they are also invisible to their allies, and their invisibility is always on, even while they are unconsious and cannot be turned off even if you want to, which means, if you go down in combat, your healer can't heal you and you probably just die.
I honestly don't agree that they are so far past Horizon Walker, new Beast Master, and Fey Wanderer. They are incredibly good but not with the huge gap implied.
It's also not so far past Hunter in terms of damage as is represented in this video. With Colossus Slayer, you do eventually match the damage that is done by the Gloomstalker - 3 turns if no sharpshooter damage or hunter's mark is used by the GS, /4 turns if no sharpshooter but with hunter's mark by the GS /5 turns or so if Sharpshooter is used but no hunter's mark/6 turns if hunter's mark + Sharpshooter (assuming average damage is done by the 1d8 for Colossus Slayer). And this assumes the Hunter is not lucky enough to get off a Volley. If he does, he can greatly surpass the GS in damage. The Gloomstalker just has it's damage front loaded, which is very good assuming it hits. It sucks tremendously if you miss that extra attack. If you do, it's much better to be a Hunter. Edit: Of course, they get a second chance to hit at lvl 11, but that could also miss.
@@Exaltable The gloom stalker only gains bonus damage on the first round of combat, after that, they have nothing. Really the only reason why people like gloom stalker so much is that really poorly defined pseudo invisibility ability they have.
@@Klaital1 Not only is the gloomstalker due to it's invisibility harder to hit (and doesnt provoke opportunity attacks from targets that cant see it), and possibly hidden all the time, if it is sufficient high level or multiclassed into rogue, but also the only heal spell that does not affect you is "Healing Word", wich is the only heal spell that specifies "a creature you can see". Being invisible does not mean you cannot be touched and as per RAW you are aware of the position of every creature that is not hidden from you. One might reasobly argue that an uncociouss invisible gloom stalker might not give away its position, but it is also very easy to argue that an ally woudl remember the position from where it heard the final scream of the stalker getting downed.
I live for the moment when two gloom stalkers have to fight each other in darkness... And they can't see each other! 😂😂
Its like that one episode of Samurai Jack when he fights the shadow ninja.
High level Rangers (18+) get Feral senses, meaning they dont get disadvantage agaisnt targets they can't see, so yeah, this is still going to be a very very deadly battle wich confuses everyone else.
I did this when my party had to fight their doppelgangers. They just left it to the player to try to figure out where he was. xD
I’m just imagining justice league Batman vs justice lord Batman
Blindsight for the win
Kelly's shirt today: anyone else reminded of sock monkey dolls? Love it. Good video guys, keep it up
You know, almost everything about the Ranger subclasses are geared towards "one solid hit." If only the ranger got something called, oh idk, Foe Slayer at level two to help land one hit against a Favored Enemy type that you would have to choose being able to pick others later on.
Zephyr Strike/Planar Warrior is such a fun combo early on for Horizon Walker. Pop the spell on your first turn and then spend the rest of the combat kiting in and out of combat.
I played a variant Gloom stalker with both Sharpshooter and crossbow expert. With just hand crossbow I wrecked a lot of things in the first round of combat and proper positioning.
nah, heavy crossbow and u use bonus action for hunters mark,,, thats wrecking..
I actually really don't like crossbows on rangers. You are MUCH better off with a longbow and having bracers of archery. You have higher minimum damage that way and have a much larger range to work with. You don't have to worry about reloading with a longbow and basically gain either an ASI or feat slot when you drop crossbow expert. You should never be within 5 feet of someone and shooting realistically so having no disadvantage on ranged attacks while within 5 feet of the target doesn't really do anything. That ASI can be out to much better using even just adding to your Wisdom thereby not only increasing your spell dc, but actually making your initiative bonus higher. On too of something like alert, you can get up to a +15 to initiative giving you an almost guarantee that you'll act first in combat. That maxed with some multi-classing can make the build extremely deadly. I personally prefer 3 Assassination Rogue/3 Gloomstalker Ranger/ 14 Battlemaster Fighter build. You can, even at level 9, do a high damage in the first round of combat. You'll even still be able to apply pressure to the enemy in the following rounds if your party doesn't decimate the enemy in one turn
Just did the math and rolls and ended up at 231 damage in one turn at ninth level with 3 in Rogue, 3 in Ranger, and 3 in Fighter though I think my math may be off. I ended up with 16d6, 24d8, then added 42 from the six attacks with +7 from having 20 dexterity and 2 from bracers of archery. Let me know if my math is wrong
@@brandonvanscoycloud6469 this is how i play gloomstalkers as well. Very deadly especially if you're playing solo, playing in the right party or your party cooperates. I prefer a different spread though:
12 battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker and 5 assassin. I gain uncanny dodge and extra 1d6 sneak attack dmg this way (losing 1 indomitable use).
@@brandonvanscoycloud6469 i am curious as to how you can reach 6 attacks when you dont have extra atk yet with this spread. the most you'll.have 1st round is 4 with action surge.
I usually just throw down Hunter's Mark round 1 and then the rounds afterwards use the planar warrior as my bonus action to deal the d6 and the d8 damage
Yeah I really don’t understand giving it crap for not synergizing with hunters mark. it takes your bonus action to use, okay... are you saying you’re keeping your mark on something more then one or 2 rounds?
@@pivotcreator2 thats's the thing; most encounters are 2-4 rounds, with multiple enemy creatures. imagine each creature lives 1-3 rounds. Turn 1 you use HM on one creature, turn 2 planar warrior; turn 3 creatre dead, you move HM, turn 4 (if it gets there) use of planar warrior, end of encounter. So in order to get 1 or 2 turns of d6 + d8, you used 1 spell slot; and took two turns just doing a d6 instead of a d8. Sure if you are against a boss that will stay up 3+ rounds it is great to use, but otherwise losing a spell slot just for 1 assured turn of usefulness is not worth; even less when planar warrior goes up.
You really don’t even need to use hunters mark with this subclass. You basically get a better hunters mark. This frees your concentration to use better things.
@@jareddavidson6654 It also helps if you choose to use the optional Favored Foe featured in place of Favored Enemy, since FF is treated as concentration (thus also not stacking with HM) but doesn't use an action to proc, leaving it up to use with PW
Ah, Yes the Good Stuff from the best Dudes.
Once again with the Horizon Walker we see that with their bonus action additional d8, we could then also use new favored foe for another d4 - d8 depending on your level which makes the choice of not going for hunter's mark a little more viable as well.
I'm really glad that Horizon Walker turned out so well. It was always a build I enjoyed in third edition!
Gloom Stalker Ranger:
Are you afraid of the dark?
.... you will be.
CRINGE!
@@waterpolonum1 The only thing cringe here is you.
EXTRA CRINGE!
I love Kelly's take on the Horizon Walker. I've never played a Ranger and I want to play one of these
Wait wait wait... Did KELLY just persuade MONTY to change his rank? Thats the true highlight of the video.
I love the image of a hasted sharpshooter horizon walker just walking through the battlefield, teleporting at each step and shooting an arrow at a different target after each teleport.
Maybe not mechanically efficient, but still a very cool concept.
It's like the Echo Knight of Rangers
Important point about Monster Slayer is that the "Magic-User's Nemesis" feature can only used once per short or long rest.
I've been playing a Tasha's Beast Master for about a month and I'd definitely put it in S tier. It's an absolutely amazing generalist class, making a great secondary healer and tank, and still doing enough damage to be considered a primary front-line character. Doing Druidic Warrior for Shillelagh and Guidance and making WIS your primary stat seems to be optimal for a melee Beast Master.
I can't wait to see their ranking on the Swarmkeeper, I absolutely adore that subclass
I love the counter so much guys! You guys do great but having the ability to laugh at your own mistakes and just go with it says so much (good) about you!
It is amazing how all of the Drow suddenly live in well lit rooms once I started playing a Gloom Stalker. (Yes, that seems to be the response to my character always being invisible in the dark.)
I think the Monster Slayer deserves to be on the same level as Horizon Walker. It is very different from other Rangers, focusing more on defensive features, but my experience as a player and DM leads me to think that defensive features tend to scale better with difficult content than DPR often does.
+1d6 on saving throws is fantastic and should include concentration according to how it is written, which is a huge benefit for higher level Ranger casting. And people really should read what Protection from Evil and Good does and which creature types if effects. That's a list of who's who of scary monsters and effects.
I really want to try fey wanderer and swarmkeeper
Calling the rankings now, I think both are solid B, not quite as good as HW or GS, but still solid and Fey Wanderer can actually make your ranger sociable instead of just straight dumping CHA. I could be wrong but that's my opinion.
@@noahmehringer29 I actually think Fey Wanderer is at least comparable to the Horizon Walker, if not better. The bonus spells are roughly equivalent, and the bonus damage abilities, while better in terms of damage for the HW, doesn't require your bonus action for the FW and isn't restricted to 30 ft like HW. And the other features are roughly equivalent overall, with abilities like Distant Strike and Spectral Defense for HW being very good balanced by Detect Portal and a once per rest, one turn etherealness being very situational, while FW gets summon fey for free and can cast it without components and do it for free once per rest, an Uno Reverse on charm/frighten effects (including on the creature that tried to force that save), free bonus to social skills, and getting free misty steps and the ability to take someone with you may not be as strong but are good abilities across the board.
Btw, Druidic Warrior fighting style/Magic Initiate Druid to grab Shillelagh to go Wisdom primary in this subclass is hilarious.
For those wondering the extra attack on Dread Ambusher, as I hear a lot of people at my table ask about it.
Say you have a Heavy Crossbow (1d10)
If you trigger your extra attack with Dread Ambusher and you hit, you deal 1d10 + your dexterity modifier + 1d8.
It's a very strong first turn ability.
11 levels of Gloom stalker plus 9 levels of Assassin rogue equals DEATH.
Vao!!
I like Gloomstalker 5 & Assassin 15 for big sneak attack bonus.
You can now say, “Nothing personal kid.”
More levels in battlemaster fighter is better. 12 battlemaster, 3 gloomstalker, 5 assassin.
Can do 8 attacks 1st round at 17th level and attach maneuver dmg+effects to 5-7 attacks (7 with martial adept and superior technique fighting style).
I’m currently 3 dip assassin, 3 dip monster hunter fighter (for superiority dice/extra skills,) 6 level gloom stalker. Opening round, two attacks standard, bonus action dual wield attack, action surge for two attacks, extra attack from gloom stalker. All crits if I go first, with advantage on and wisdom to initiative.
Gloom stalker has lots of great multi class combos.
I was unsure about these ranking videos at first and now they are some of my favorite 5e content on youtube! You guys are great!
How is there already a thumbs down in less than half the time it takes to watch the video after it was uploaded? People kinda suck, generally.
H8rs gonna H8
People just hate hunters, apparently
From someone playing a ranger before XGE came out.
Holy wow!! Kelly got Monty to upgrade Planestalker - fantastic example of how these two DO think differently and thus compliment each other 🥰. Love your different takes on stuff.
I know you don’t grade in RP stuff or on niche abilities so much, but I like when you remind players that these neat niche abilities ( if they are good) - also can give GMs ideas on how to vary their campaigns to be different than just straight ahead , uncomplicated combat 👍
The monster slayer should be rewarded for exploiting enemy weakneses by dealing even more damage, or gaining advantage, or adding some status effect when enemy weakneses are exploited
I'd like to add something for using etherialness, you can Use it to bypass traps, get into enemy back lines, transport items you are holding like bombs or corrupt Magic items, Walk or dash through walls, or impassible objects in the material plane, six seconds of invisibility unless they can see the etherial plane, getting through natural hazards that misty step can't cover, and so on
At 4:26 when Monty says "But that's not all!", I couldn't help but hear, "But wait, there's more!" xD
So my very first character I ever made in my first d&d campaign is a Monster Slayer Ranger, and while I am not very experienced he has been the backbone of many encounters we had with our first time dm, we've been running this campaign for about half a year and most campaigns are trivialized once my character got its stuff online, the ability to identify creatures and finding out resistances and weaknesses has become very useful as late when i remember it, it might just be the campaign where he's useful because its somewhat of a mystery, and i made him a soldier as a background specifically a scout, so i suppose i lucked out in that synergy in my inexperience, ive been able to use most features and spells at some point to positive effect in the campaign
I dont rp him really much as a monster slayer type, having a different feel to him but its there, he's the silent one of the group (fits my personality so it would be easier for me to get into the game), I have fun with him though, also helps that our dm let us start with a lower level magic item for i campaign and i went with the Cloak of Elven Kind so
FINALLY THEY’RE GONNA DO ROGUE NEXT!
In b4 warlock steals the show
Swashbuckler is going to be s tier
@@RavarSeer hex blade is gonna be the best we already know
@@Jerzzylo Swashy and Trickster Gotta be S-Tier. With the new feats in tashas I ultimately think Swash is the best rogue now.
I hope so! I'm on the verge on going Soul Knife and I want to hear their thought!
Been looking forward to this one!! I’ve really enjoyed all of the tier lists so far, thanks Dungeon Dudes!
I love the incorrect name use count! Hahaha Kelly is the man!
I did horizon walker as a 2 handed fighter, and it’s so much fun!
With the monster slayer i think it would be better of instead of learning resistances and immunities you should learn strengths and weaknesses, which would be up to the DM to decide. For example, you could use it on a vampire and learn that they die in water
One good thing about the Ranger is this - d10 hit die. Given the same constitution modifier, it can have the same hp as a fighter of a paladin, making it a good backup tank, as Half Plate armor has 17 AC with 14 Dexterity.
Spoiler: There are portals in Descent into Avernus. Horizon Walker feels useful.
-Hunter needs to upped 1 tier. It doesn't outright suck, but I agree that Horizon Walker and Gloom Stalker are better, but Monster Slayer is too specialized. Hunter is a good, solid, & vetsatile middle tier subclass! It's needs to a "B"!
The reasoning for hunter being C is that there is never any hypothetical scenario where it feels S. Its just not strong in a meaningful way. It can't compete with the higher ranked subclasses even under its best conditions.
@@Casino220 I dont really understand it tbh... Gloomstalker is almost always multiclassed, and its all about frontloading the first round of combat... Gloomstalker/Assasin with 3 attacks and autocrits along with sharpshooter seems the most common....
But doing the same with a rogue/hunter you get much more consistent damage throughout the entire fight and not just the first round of it....
BWAHAHA - I wouldn’t have even noticed the wrong name usage if the hilarious “Incorrect Name Use” counter didn’t come up. You two have such a fun sense of humor. It’s nice to see you having fun and not taking yourselves too seriously. Thanks for the smile.
I need part 3 now! I’ve been playing a fey wanderer ranger and have had a blast with it so far. I’m curious what you guys think about it.
One of the things I like about Monster Slayer is the idea of spamming the ability where you sense Resistances in social situations. As a DM I love throwing in NPCs that are secretly much more powerful than they let on and when I think of Monster Slayer I think of Vampires and Werewolves. The narrative of the Monster Slayer looking at the charming prince and noticing it's suspicious immunity to non-silver damage or the vampire resistances and the social aspect of being able to subtly sus out if an NPC is more than what it seems is delightful to me.
That said with the Blood Hunter's most recent iteration being as satisfying as it is the characters that I'd typically have been inclined to play a Monster Slayer for are almost always going to be a Blood Hunter instead. ^^'
"They're never going to catch you unless you're a monk."
Monty did you just say something positive about the monk?
I really appreciate the research & experience you put into your videos! I’ll gladly wait for the 3rd instalment.
Also, I tend to always listen to you at 1.25 or 1.5 playback speed, & I used to think of that as a drawback, but I realized in this video that the reason I can even do that is because of your diction & clarity of thought, so thank you to your theatre training & hard work!
So does the Horizon Walker, if they could collect Booming Blade, make it a better option since you can "BAMF" away requiring the target to chase after you if they want to hurt you thus triggering Booming Blade?
You can’t BAMF after the attack. It must be before. It doesn’t work like you think
Also, when you cast Booming Blade, you’re not taking the Attack Action. You’re taking the Cast A Spell Action.
Great discussion! I look forward to watching the discussion on the Tasha's subclasses.
I would say monster slayer excells when you dont know the dnd monsters and are new. It excells when you have no meta knowledge
As a side thought with the way dnd 5e deals with resistences and vulnerabilities inherintely makes it worse. If vulnerabilities and immunities were more common you could actually class it as s class just because it allows your party to fight effectively.
An additional note regarding gloomstalker - creatures with blindsight and truesight, even very powerful creatures, tend to have it within a certain range. A gloomstalker with a longbow or heavy crossbow and the sharpshooter feat can more easily stay out of a 60 or 120 foot blindsight range, so that they are still invisible.
I really like these videos but there is something that irks me a little about their rankings. They always deem it as a negative when you have to choose what you're going to do with your actions/bonus actions and I fundamentally disagree with that perspective. Having one obvious thing to do every turn is boring, I want to make meaningful choices.
That and I think there overall ratings are usually to high
I've been waiting for this video since the first part - I was curious for the argumentation for the Gloomstalker and the Horizon Walker, given that Kelly and Marty vindicated the Hunter's C ranking with their existence, and well... in my opinion, it falls short. When comparing the rating for the Hunter and the Gloomstalker, it becomes rather obvious that an exciting and unique class concept (which the Gloomstalker, compared to the bland Hunter, definitely has) is a big hidden factor in the ranking. Here's my gripes with the video:
- 'If you're in a party where everybody has darkvision, you can always have advantage' - for starters, arguing that this is good for parties where everybody has darkvision is per definition a niche (B-tier) benefit. Second, this argument means that a party could facilitate it so every encounter is during the night / in dark areas, which is just... not realistic at all. Hey guys, the king has summoned you to his totally not ambush scenario, oh well, do you mind if we come at night and actually could we please meet in the basement? ...in fact, I'd argue that fighting in true darkness is rather rare in D&D; you usually have either dim or bright light to work with. Yes, you might be able to facilitate Darkness in some encounters, i.e. by snuffing out torches in the typical dungeon - but it is *very* likely that one or multiple party members would have to expend actions and/or spells during combat to do so (and if your enemies rely on light, they might just counter those efforts). Even when you're in complete darkness, there's also a minor downside - allies can't reliably heal or buff you.
- The amount of extra damage you get for your Dread Ambusher extra attack in your first round typically is 1x weapon damage + 1x Hunter's Mark when compared to a Hunter with Colossus Slayer, which means the damage likely breaks even in the 3rd turn. Dread Ambusher is great against multiple enemies, where taking somebody off the board early is always more desirable, but clearly inferior during battles against few strong foes (or long battles in general).
- Stalker's Flurry is great in combination with Sharpshooter or Great Weapon Master. But if you don't miss attacks it is useless (If you're playing a typical bow ranger with 20 DEX and +2 to ATT - how often do you miss?), and it is redundant if a Gloom Stalker is actually in darkness and already has advantage on ATT rolls anyway.
- Shadowy Dodge is also nice, but I think it is clearly inferior to the Hunter's Uncanny Dodge.
Don't get me wrong, the Gloomstalker is great, and I'd agree the S ranking is justified. You'll sometimes have blank advantage and invisibility, and to do a lot of damage early is great when fighting against multiple enemies. The Gloom Stalker's spell selection is also pretty darn good. But Umbral Sight is somewhat situational as a combat ability, and it cannibalizes on Stalker's Flurry.
But the C-ranking for the Hunter? According to the rating scale - 'Limited features which rarely come up in play, doesn't synergize with base class features'? Sorry, but that is just nonsense. The Gloomstalker might be superior, in particular utility-wise (pairing him up with a rogue for an infiltration duo is amazeballs), but on a broader level those two classes aren't nearly that far apart.
I listened to TAZ, zone of truth is the most important spell in the game!
Currently playing my first ever D&D campaign and I'm playing Fleet, a Tabaxi Gloomstalker, slightly influenced by Veo but with his own flavor. I love it so much, he's a joy to play. He gained his Gloomstalker abilities by the boon of a fairy queen and just kind of fades into invisibility whenever he enters shadow. An Outlander who is not really interested in social graces, he's nervous and sometimes scared in social situations but he thrives the moment he jumps into the trees, longbow in hand. He's searching for his twin sister, who left home to become an adventurer but who hasn't been heard from in a while.
I had to do a double take when reading your character story... One of the players at my table is playing a Flight, a Tabaxi Circle of Dreams Druid who left home to seek adventure away from her overprotective twin brother...
I wanna make a gloomstalker/rogue multiclass now XD
Just imagine standing in the dark just hitting sneak attack everyhwere
Just add Bugbear into the mix and you're golden.
This video has made me wonder if my idea for a character inspired by Grimalkin the witch assassin from The Last Apprentice novels, should perhaps be a Gloom Stalker.
I was initially thinking Arcane Trickster rogue, but Grimalkin does like to fight her enemies head on and makes many fast attacks, doesn't seem to use much magic in the style of cantrips, and she spends a lot of her time in the wilderness. Some of those GS spells are a good fit too.
Now I want to play Monster Hunter World again.
Can't wait for the Tasha's videos.
The Tasha's beast master lets you fly around on a human-sized (non-fire-breathing unfortunately) dragon at level 3 permanently (as long as you're a small race), that's so cool it gets s rank for pure style.
Ah, yes... Monster Hunter, the famous subclass.
Geralt of Rivia approves
Monster Hunter from Monster Hunter approves
Don't lie. You probably call it Monster Hunter, too. I know I do. 😏
@@piedpiper1185 he’s right you know
@@Hesauce I hereby demand that the Monster Hunter class must use a ridiculously oversized weapon made from the organs and bones of monsters they've slain. Oh, and they acquire proficiency with a Hunting Horn at third level.
My current Pc is a ranger I fully intended on making a Monster Slayer. Then, we got very attached to our axebeaks and now I’m having a blast playing my beastmaster.
It's called Monster Hunter now. it's officially Canon. The DDs have deemed it so.
Okay the cut when they were both losing it over the portal joke was actually gold, I’m glad they kept that in.
“It’s good with a ranged attack build.” Literally the only way I’ve seen a ranger make an attack in 5e.
Rangers need a bit more support for melee combat. Multiattack Defense for Hunter is pretty good at that, but it comes with the rather large opportunity cost of having to be a Hunter instead of nearly anything else.
The Horizon Walker Detect Portal ability may seem niche, but when my DM described the villain using Dimension Door to escape my party, it became very useful. Detect Portal has a mile+ range- far beyond the 500ft range of Dimension door. My HW was able to track the where the villain exited his mini dimension pocket thing, with ease.
Now, I can imagine a determined DM ruling against this, but it makes a use for Detect Portal, out of a much more common situation in DnD than planes-hopping.
I wish this was RAW, because teleportation detection or finding where a Demi plane or rope trick is has some interesting applications, but unfortunately dimension door doesn’t actually open to a pocket dimension or create a portal
I'd wanna play a Monster Slayer multiclassed with a Grave Domain Cleirc to really push that kind of Diablo-esque gothy evil destroying demon hunter.
With the horizon walker you could teleport in, make an attack, then teleport out and used a ranged attack from your off hand as a dual wielded such as a thrown weapon or a hand crossbow or a pistol depending on the setting. You could also roleplay it that the ranged attack is being sent back through your teleport rift as it is closing.
Ok, I agree, the "monster hunter" is really "meh". But what about the "monster slayer"
Looking forward to your Swarmkeeper analysis
We played that if gloomstalker is fighting someone with Devilsight - that Warlock isn’t using Darkvision to see so then the gloomstalker will not be invisible to them.
this is RAW, and probably RAI, devil sight dont give you darkvision, it give you its advantages and more, but the Umbral Sight can't counter it
Another thing to consider for meele Horizon walkers is that you can throw a weapon to trigger the Distant Strike Feature in order to disengage from meele. Now that I think about it, a Thrown Weapon Fighting
Horizen Walker would be very cool.
Fey Wander & Swarmkeep: (Stare out in window with teary eyes)
I don't know if they forgot it or if they'll make a part 3 honestly but it makes me sad. Maybe these videos were recorded before those were released? I don't know
Both terrible
We did not forget. As we've said repeatedly, we'll be covering thee new Tasha's subclasses once we've actually seen them in play. They only came out 2 months ago.
Your discussions are always so insightful, great series can't wait for rogue
So what I'm hearing is Assassin Rogue + Gloom Seeker Ranger for my next BBEG 😂
It's actually super mean, particularly if you add say...Alert...
Bear in mind that NPCs don't need to be constructed using PC classes. You can give your villains whatever abilities you want them to have.
@@DungeonDudes oh I'm aware. If I even HAVE a BBEG, I like to make them using the tools Players use. I usually don't have one, though.
I played a duelist Horizon Walker with the mobile feat in a Curse of Strahd campaign and it was probably the most fun character I've ever played. The only complaint I had was that there were too many options to use your bonus action on, but by the time I had mobile, I was all over the map every battle and it was a blast!
See, I've always struggled with gloom stalker invisibility since it could be a straight debuff. Youre in darkness, no one has a light source because the whole party has dark vision and never prepped light source, and the enemy has blind sight, tremorsense, etc.. Congrats, your allies can't buff you and you gain nothing against the enemy.
Also, want to see a good monster slayer?
Strahd. Slap protection from evil and good on yourself and magically your insanely tanky.
How many enemies are going to have both blind sight and Tremor sense? Plus some buff spells are touch based that don't require sight (Haste). Also most adventurers start with a pack of some kind that usually includes torches.
And any magic user probably has at least one fire spell or a spell that will illuminate an area. If a DM throws a monster or pack of monsters at the party that has blindsight, tremor sense or truesight, and you're not above level 7, you're either playing a really gritty game, or the DM built the encounter specifically to f@#$ your party.
@@noahmehringer29 from haste "...A willing creature you can see within range..." so no, haste wouldn't work. And correction, itd only be blindsight or true sight.
And a gray ooze, which has blindsight and would counteract the invisibility, is present in waterdeep dragon heist in like the second dungeon.
Also 1.) youre assuming the players remember they have torches.
2.) You're asking a player to give up a hand and a whole turn to light the torch. Or ask them to give up a cantrip slot for light, even though if you were any other subclass this wouldn't be an issue.
3.) Even barring the situation where you don't get the benefits from the invisibility, the defensive aspect of it is majorly reduced in power if you're using the suggested sharpshooter for the additional attack. And advantage is pretty easy to get access to anyway. So its not as strong as one would think, while also having the debuff of little to no buffs from allies.
4.) I range a one-shot boss fight with the tashas alternate abilities and the ranger pretty much stayed invisible the whole time already with natures veil. So higher levels the thunder is SERIOUSLY reduced.
Currently playing a Horizon Walker. How I handle the hunter mark, planer worrier thing is pick the beefiest enemy round one and hit them with hunters mark and for the next rounds use planers till they die. another advantage of planer worrier that was not mentioned is that force damage is rarely resisted when most of you weapon damage might.
As I’m watching Kelly say “Monster Hunter”, I find myself unable to recall what the actual subclass is called haha
Berenstein Bear effect in action
Monster Slayer and Horizon Walker received interesting buff with Tasha. Favored Foe doesn't require bonus action, but competes wih HMark for concentration. So these two can now squeeze in additional damage without sacrificing their 3rd lvl abilities, which is great.
In a shorter fight the gloom stalker is the best. A boss fight, Horizon walker excels at long term damage
I'm currently playing a Swashbuckler/Gloom Stalker Changeling and the combo is completely ridiculous, it's so awesome to play