Very likely it is one of the mechanics, making extra on the side. Now with all this negative publicity they will find they have lost a tremendous amount of customers to other shops, and the best mechanics will up and leave as well, not wanting to be associated with them either.
There are literally rings of catalytic converter thieves and this has become a widespread problem, but yeah let's just make wild off-the-cuff accusations.
@@davidtomlinson4582 and I came into work one day on our lot which had fences, gates, multiple cameras and they stole every set of wheels on every Charger and Challenger. Guess what, fences didn't stop them from climbing over them and the cameras show a clear image of his hoodie and mask for the police to try to identify. I'll kiss company butt the moment you realize your point is stupid.
@@michaelcosta7235 No his point is spot on. If these thefts have happened many times in the past, why has the lot not hired overnight security? I bet if your work had overnight security those thefts might have stopped. But one reason this company didn't hire security is because they don't want/care about stopping these thefts. That raises several red flags. I'm hoping your not this stupid everyday Michael. Hopefully just on Tuesdays....right?
I had taken my truck to a Ford dealer for a fuel pump issue under warranty. While it was waiting for parts they performed a recall that I had told them in the past not to do because I didn't want a tech taking apart my door panels for a recall that only affects vehicles in freezing climates. I was told that if they have the vehicle in their possession they had to do it. My truck ended up getting damaged while sitting in the lot waiting on parts. They tried to say it wasn't their problem because it was sitting out in the lot. Told them they had already made it clear to me that the vehicle was "in their possession" when performing the recall so therefore it was "in their possession" when the damage occurred. At that point they decided to fix the damage free of charge.
Similar story happened to me, in Michigan at a Chrysler dealership in the late 80's. My car was one of nearly a dozen cars broken into. They broke my dash and stole the stereo and speakers. Dealer refused to help, like you mentioned in your video, they wanted me to file an insurance claim. I was eventually successful in getting them to fix my car and replace the equipment, but they were reluctant and horrible to work with. I swore to never buy a Chrysler product again and so far have kept this vow.
@@nickybeingnicky Automobile Dealerships are independent companies. Even though they sell new vehicles form a particular company, such as Chrysler or Kia, the company that makes the cars is not the parent, or even same, company as the dealership. The actions described by Venture B and Steve Leto are completely the decisions of that dealership and the company that makes the cars they sell has nothing to do with it.
@@Naris48 what in gods name are you talking about? Lehto was talking about laws that protect the owner of the car while the car is in possession of a dealership or repair center.
When I worked in a body shop, every time a car came in, photos were taken of all sides of the car before work began. Its amazing how many times a customer would walk up to their car and say that a scratch wasn't on the car before we worked on it, before walking to the other side to point it out. There wasn't much argument when we showed them the photos.
Yep, all of the Penske dealers in the Phoenix Valley (at the very least) have a camera setup at the entrance to every service lane and you don't get approached by an advisor until past those cameras. They were still installing them a couple of years ago when I worked IT for them and they almost immediately eliminated those "But that scratch/dent wasn't there when I brought it in"
yeah I took photos of my truck once when I dropped it off for repairs. They tried telling me I didn't come in with a tailgate. I showed them photos of the new guy near the back of my truck. They quickly 'found' it in the shop.
Lot of the dealerships by me do that, video camera all around the vehicle, inside, under, top of roof, in engine bay, then fill in the paperwork, and what is in the vehicle ( spare wheel, jack, tools etc) plus noted on the entry doc of all dents noticed. Then it goes in for service. When finished it gets detailed inside and out before being parked in the yard. Every afternoon at 5 before close, after the service department is already closed for a half hour, and it has been swept and neatened up ,all those vehicles outside come and are jenga'd into the workshop itself for secure storage overnight, so the lot outside is left empty. If they have to park them on lifts and then fit them in , it will be done. Even though there is 24 hour security, alarm and cameras this is still cheaper than having to pay for damage because somebody waited for the guard to be past and on the other side, and steal off tyres from 3 or 4 vehicles.
The dealership also took no precautions after the first thefts, so they were either negligent in their responsibility or perhaps they stole the cat converters themselves ???
It was their meth head detail boy supporting his habbit... and no one thought anything about it because he is supposed to be there. He just happens to have a lithium dewalt demolition saw in his trunk with a few extra batteries and some red devil blades.
@@TheSegert reminds me of the airbag theft gang. They stole hundreds of airbags every month and sold them to a shop who had the cheapest airbag replacement in the city. Didn’t get arrested till taxes proved a disconnect from earnings to claimed taxes. While there wasn’t a direct connection, it was a symbiotic relationship.
Wow, almost the same thing happened to me! Had a whole new custom exhaust put on my car at a name brand muffler shop then took it to a different shop to have the emissions done. (this was in California) Long story short, the entire exhaust system was stolen including the new headers. Shop owner said he wasn't responsible and I still owed him the cost to emission it. I refused and he ended up taking me to court. Court sided with him even though it was clearly his responsibility, he and a couple employees stated in court that I brought it in that way? bear in mind I still had the receipts from the other shop and a letter from them about the work they did! Judge wouldn't listen, guess they were both members of the Moose lodge or something. YES!! I did a stupid and tried to represent myself in this!! HERE'S WHERE IT GETS GOOD! I got a copy of the court transcripts and went to the State emission board and asked them how someone could emission check a vehicle without an exhaust system. I told them the whole and truthful story (Yes, they probably did check it when the system was still on) They were very interested since he lied. The inspector that went to the shop asked about it and he again said I brought it in that way. The inspector then asked how was he able to do the emissions then....Crickets! They lost their license on the spot! California don't f*** around about that kinda thing. The BBB even found out and pulled their membership. Word got out and they really lost a lot of business and ended up closing about a year later! I had another system put on but since it already had emissions I was cool with how it turned out. I left California a little after all this and never went back even for family events.🤣🤣
I used to work for one of the aftermarket automotive test equipment companies, where I worked on (among other things) California emissions testing equipment. I used my Toyota Camry as my "test article", and was intimately familiar with its emissions characteristics. We moved to California, and I took the car in, to be tested, on the equipment I helped develop. The test came back showing that the car needed a new catalytic converter (not!). I took it to another shop, it passed with flying colors, and immediately reported the incident to the Bureau of Automotive Repair. The first place was shut down within days.
"bear in mind I still had the receipts from the other shop and a letter from them about the work they did! Judge wouldn't listen, guess they were both members of the Moose lodge or something." NO! The hearsay rule applies here. You can't introduce evidence by just showing a letter to the judge. You might want to bone up on the hearsay rule. Just admit it - YOU screwed up - not the judge.
@@colt4667 well, i thought that hearsay was when one person is stating what some one else said? receipts and letter is from another business, who willingly provided business information on what they did. and in this case, its not testimony, they are documents of what busines A did arent they?
@@davidwillims2004 Letters and documents can be made up falsely. The writer would be subject to cross examination. If the writer is not in court there would be no cross examination. Therefore the hearsay rule applies.
The dealership's insurance should cover the theft. This happened at a shop I worked for where thieves cut through the fence of a gated and locked lot (with barbed wire) and stole the complete rear end out from a truck. This was a small family-owned shop and we didn't waste time trying to check the relevant state laws to see if we could additionally inconvenience the customer, we just called our insurance, paid the deductible, and moved on.
I dunno if a customer can directly fille a claim against their shop insurance. All shops need to have insurance. We had a car stolen once (car had no insurance) and garage policy paid out without issues.
The deductible on a commercial policy like that is $5-10k. I’ll work on farm equipment and trucks, even a few cars here and there, as long as no one is in a hurry. This happened to to me on a diesel truck. They hacked off the DPF. The guy pushed the issue on me instead of filing an insurance claim. It was the last thing he ever brought to my shop. It cost him $100k in dealership repair bills within a year. A Mercedes sprayer motor blew, I know to to convert them over to a Cummins 5.9 for 25% the cost. I also can get around very expensive tin work on worn out elevators to the grain tank, and can pretty much rebuild the 8.1’s, 9.0’s, 12.5’s, 13.5’s and 15.0’s blind folded. He had a lot of expensive break downs, and he can keep going back to John Deere. I don’t want him here. I do it for fun, to teach my kids, not as a business.
Had an issue once with a Hyundai dealership. Dropped my Sonata off for warranty work. While the car was on their lot waiting to be repaired they moved it out of the parking spot it was in to a location near (but still outside) the entrance to the service area. A bit later a large delivery truck decided to back up and didn't see my car, backing into it and damaging the passenger side doors. The dealership called me and wanted ME to file a claim. Sorry, nope. It's totally on you buddy. Then I told them I needed a loaner car (they had a rental office in their showroom). They were like sure no problem, just give us your credit card number and we'll have it ready for you within the hour. Nope, nope, NOPE. That one's on you too. Ended up keeping the loaner for nearly eight weeks waiting for parts for my car. We won out in the end but Steve is right - they'll ask you to pay for their mistakes every time.
So let me get this straight, the dealership was in charge of the vehicle, the vehicle was vandalised and a part was taken, the dealership has had thefts on lot before, there are no cameras and the dealership is not taking any responsibility for the loss. I call bullshit, the dealership is at it. They themselves more than likely took the part and are passing it off as a spate of thefts.
Was thinking this too. They are ether in on it. Or doing it themselves. Otherwise they would have reacted differently. I see loads of people see and are thinking that.
Exactly. I also wonder, were catalytic converters stolen off their new vehicles on the lot or was it only customer vehicles that “were targeted”? The lack of security cameras and their attitude make the dealership or employees the most likely thieves
It’s possible that they had cameras but either didn’t get a clear shot of the perp’s face or are in a city where the cops just don’t bother to investigate property crimes.
🤦♂️ In this day and age where EVERYTHING eventually gets posted to the internet, that dealership had to know how badly this would make them look once it got posted, so regardless if the law there technically means they're not liable, they should've just eaten the cost to save their reputation!
they shouldnt be given a licence renewal after a lot of ppl take them to court. In fact they should have that licenced suspended on 2 accounts - the 2nd being not allowed to business in Canada again.
They are liable though, its blatant lies to try and get out of paying. If a vehicle has been dropped off at their lot, with intent to have the vehicle serviced, they are liable to any damage to the vehicle that occurs while on the lot.
There's a lot of businesses, who still make the bet that "who's gonna give a hoot if you whine in some internet forum?". The problem? Sometimes that's exactly how it goes. Joe Average make a complaint on social media, 5 people say "that's outrageous" and 30 click on thumbs up but then it just fizzles out. It's really about luck if you can get the justice through public pressure.
Years ago I took a car to a dealer for a scheduled recall. While there the timing chain broke. They told me broke while they were driving into the garage and they charged me for the repair. When I got the car back, there was a parking ticket on the floor. Someone had taken the car to go get lunch. That's when the chain broke (God only knows what they were doing.) After threatening the dealer with legal action, I got my money back.
That reminds me of when I took my car to a repair shop to get the alternator replaced, and I left it overnight. When I picked up the car it didn't run correctly, and later I found out that one of the turbos had seized. I wish I had pressed them to fix it at their cost, because I had the suspicion that they were hot rodding after they replaced the alternator.
They were drag racing while going to get lunch, pick up car parts and drop off other customers who left their cars to be fixed. I took my brand new VW to the VW dealer to get work done on a recall. The dealer said I had to leave the insurance and registration info in the car. I said no way and took my car and left. I called the VW corporate number and complained. VW corp called me back and they said they spoke to the dealer. They said the dealer denied they ever said that. I think they were going to use my car to run errands and other stuff.
@@sd906238 -- They were certainly doing something to the car they shouldn't have. It was a slant 6 with around 70,000 miles on it. You don't break those engines without serious abuse.
That is horrible. I got dent on my car and services not done correctly from A DEALERSHIP. They charge more than independent shops! This is why I mostly stick to mobile mechanic or keep an eye on my car while they work on it.
I think if it was me that I would have approached this law suit from the same angle that the dealer did. My claim would have been that the dealership was the one that was targeted and not me. My evidence would have been that in spite of numerous previous thefts and even thefts that have occurred since my car was victimized, the dealership still has zero security measures in place to protect their customers property while in their custody. I would also point out that the dealership had no signs posted to make their customers aware that they have been having problems with thefts from customers vehicles left in their care. It seems like at the least that the dealership would be responsible to warn the public that there is a high probability that they could be the victim of some sort of theft if they leave their car with them overnight. I have a suspicion that these thieves have an inside connection with someone who works there. I'll bet if they installed cameras the thefts would stop immediately because the man on the inside would warn the thieves about the cameras. One thing is certain though, the thieves did not target the customers car!!! They targeted the dealership and they will continue to target the dealership until a security system is installed!!!
Ya gotta love the passive voice! Sh!t happens after all. Anyone who sees this story and still patronizes that dealership deserves whatever they get. It’s hard to say which. Is worse, 1. Their lack of care for their customers’ property (no security, no cameras); or 2. Their lack of accountability or even concern over their own negligence.
Or is it that THEY stole the cats themselves? I hope the customers file suit with the State Board of Equalization, sues them in civil court, get the story up on local news, ask the DA to investigate wether it was an inside job, Sue the garages insurance for not requiring cameras, sue the owners for gross negligence for not having cameras installed after the first break in...
"The Supreme Court of Canada recently decided that a garage owner does not owe a duty of care to those injured as a result of theft from their premises." Wow! Does someone pay the Supreme Court?
I have to wonder, were any cat converters stolen from cars in the dealer's lot, or were only customer's cars in for service "targeted"? If none of the dealerships cars were messed with then I have to suspect the dealer is behind the thefts.
There is another part to that question. The vehicles targeted, all higher ground clearance vehicles? Or did the thieves bring jacks to get under all the lower riding cars? I'm building a taller vehicle. No cats. And the gas tanks you can see are rusted out junk.
@@ctom4932 I'm also suspicious of the dealership, but I just wanted to add that these theives often do bring a jack. There are videos on TH-cam of theives jacking up a car, stealing the converter, and putting the car back down in less than 5 minutes.
@@ctom4932 I can change a tire on the side of a highway in under 5 minutes from stop to rolling. Add in a sawzall without a tire change I can be in and out in under 1 minute.
@@Seasniffer69 the most commonly targeted vehicles for these thefts are trucks and SUVs. I wouldn't be surprised if a dealership cat theft featured every SUV hit, but no cars. IDK if that was the case here or not. I also don't know if their sales department had any SUVs in stock at the time.
Early 80s, took car into a dealership for warranty work. When I drove it away, it was loud from a hole in the cat. I went back and they told me it was from rust. You guys just helped it along! I lost my temper and they called cops on me.
One of the reasons for these liability laws like those in Michigan.....what's preventing the shop from stealing the cats and just reporting it as a random theft?
@@otm646 its only a felony if you get caught and without camera's they can't prove who did or didn't do it. could have been an employee and would have never known it.
@@otm646 Most crimes like this are crimes of opportunity. A poor shop worker having access and knowledge of where the cars are is that specific opportunity. Not to mention, knowledge that there is no security nor cameras to catch them. Go ahead and chat with people in jail....the idea of felony vs misdemeanor doesnt even cross their minds. And yes, this is precisely why especially with high dollar items such as cars, the liability for the car transfers to the shop while they accepted the custody of it. It ensures that if they break something through incompetence or negligence, they're responsible for fixing it. Similarly it provides incentives to ensure that the cars are properly secured to prevent external thefts as talked about in the video or to catch internal thefts so those responsible are held accountable. Nice world you live in though, where everyone just knows what felonies are and are disuaded from even attempting such a thing...I mean a felony?! seriously?! I mean who would do such a thing?!
When I was at college, I took my car to a local garage for some work that took a few days. The subwoofer and amp was stolen from the trunk while the car was in their possession, no exterior damage or sign of forced break in. Garage told me to file an insurance claim. My car insurance denied the claim - the subwoofer and amp wasn't bolted down in the car in a manner that they approve of to make it part of the vehicle, they treated it as stolen loose car contents which the policy didn't cover. When I went to get the vehicle back from the garage, I see my sub and amp in a mechanic's car. Police wouldn't help because I couldn't prove those were mine. I was too young and dumb to get a lawyer at the time.
I had the exact same thing happen to me! My car was in a little repair shop and when I got it back I was missing a Sony PSP, a 24 pack of water, and a 24 pack of planters peanuts. The manager was in the middle of telling me how they weren't responsible and how I should have taken everything of value out of my car when I spotted the peanuts open in the back work area. He fumbled over some words and said he would pay me cash for everything!
This very thing happened to me while my truck was at a Pep Boys for rear-end repair. They didn't want to do anything about it so I wrote an email to corporate. The Pep Boys manager called and said corporate authorized him to offer me either they do the rear-end work for free or fix the cat. converter situation for free. The rear-end work was like three times the cost of a new cat. converter so, yeah, I went with that.
No disrespect, but… you entrusted pep boys to repair, service or otherwise touch your differential (rear end) !!!!!!?????!!!! It will fail in soon enough sorry to say!! (Free advice that I know you did not solicit). Please do not go to pep boys anymore. Especially, do not let them touch anything that requires talent for your sake.
I work at a local shop in Tulsa. We have six locations, but we're no dealership. We still take care of catalytic converter thefts that happen on our watch. Six this year so far. We do take precautions though. Vehicles with easily accessible converters are always inside overnight. The rest are in a locked area with a lot of security cameras and alarms.
If I hand my car over to a business for repairs, storage, whatever, and while in their custody it is damaged, stolen or otherwise mutilated or abused, I see no common sense reason they and their insurance should not be liable. The law may see it otherwise, since the law is influenced by the lobbyists for the insurance agencies, but come on. I entrusted my property to you, and you failed to protect it.
@@thomasjohnson2435 As it stands now I would say that lands on the person who decided to drop it off. They are choosing to leave the vehicle in an unmanaged location. The property, let's say dealer, has not accepted the handover of your property, you just dumped it on their doorstep. Once they process it in, different story. But until then, it was the choice of whoever told the tow truck driver to drop it off. Probably oversimplifying it.
I have been in many dealerships in Ontario Canada and most have a huge sigh says we are not responsible for anything in your vehicle or any damages well its here for service .
Honestly, as consumers, we need to make vendors, companies, dealers, doctors, whoever sign our documents if they want our business which represents us and outlines our rights. I.e., if the dealer tries getting you to sing something, you should have something that they sign, which ofcourse initially none will However, if everyone demands their paperwork be signed. They will eventually be forced to. As they will go out of business if they don't. That's the kind of thing people need to do.
@@ocoolwow in a way they do, if customers avoid business a , then that business will go out of business. and there is no appeal process to get that fixed . but it does require more than one customer to know about it, which if it was on the news, or on the internet. then many customers would avoid like the plague,
Wow, Steve’s in a mood today! No tolerance for this dealer’s lack of responsibility. Good. No one should tolerate that. Need some Canadian legislators to tighten up these laws.
so whats stopping the dealership from stealing the cat. converters themselves and then charging the customer for a replacement all while selling the stolen converters?
@@frankyflowers the conscience and the law have proven ineffective in stopping a lot of crime. Instead of changing a comment that made a poor argument, either accept you were wrong or delete it. Your edit stands out.
@@frankyflowers Dumb question. One of those crimes can be done in secret while the other one involves assault, bodily harm, robbery, and it leaves a witness behind who will immediately report the crime to the police.
I would not be surprised if it was the car dealerships stold your Cadillac converter off to give to somebody else that needed one and said it was stolen
@@niyablake I'm thinking her later attitude was down to their initial attitude. I'm also thinking a car dealership with no security cameras has something to hide...
In Calif, the facility must take "reasonable" care of the vehicle. Even if the shop says "Not responsible for theft", they can be responsible. It depends on THEIR actions. If they have a gated/fenced/locked area, with the car locked, and keys in a secured place, etc., YOUR insurance is responsible. If they leave it out on the street overnight, in a high-crime area, with the windows rolled down and the keys it, that's not Reasonable care.
It's no different than big box stores that post signs that claim they are not responsible for damage from shopping carts. It's designed to get people to just leave and it's more effective than most would think.
@@swiggs1999--The people using shopping carts are not employees of the business. I could see your point if the business had No collection areas for carts in the parking lot. Would the business also be responsible for Door Dings? It happened on their property by potential customers of that business.
@@ronmcmartin4513 that's tough because the other cars don't belong to the business. Where shopping carts do. So if a car hits your car and busts a taillight out not only does it happen on company x's property but it's their property that did the damage.
@@swiggs1999--I agree. Purposefully ramming a cart would be a criminal offense. But usually, no one is in control of a windblown cart(Act of God?). That's why I made the exception for Collection Areas, which seems like a Reasonable attempt to mitigate the problem("reasonable care"?)
@@ronmcmartin4513 Actually, the grocery store IS in control of their carts. They can put brakes on them or have employees gather them. Heck, they can get rid of the carts altogether if they wanted. Or they can put pool noodle bumpers on them, only allow customer to take their cart to the curb and have them bring their car up. Lots of things can be done.
Here is the problem: What if the 'thieves' have connections with that dealership? Perhaps the police should start an investigation into that dealership if this has happened more than once. If I was the dealership in question, I would realize how much business something like this would make me lose and I would have my lot video-recorded out the wazoo.
here's the better question... let's say for a second they are completely right, they are not liable in any way... who is responsible for keeping it from happening then? Does this mean they are responsible for keeping it safe but, if they fail, oh well? responsible for safety but not if it happens? at what point does this make anywhere? the bank is responsible for protecting the money, but if it's stolen, oh well it's the customer's fault? you see how this argument rapidly fails. so... who IS responsible for the safekeeping of the care, and thus, liable for the damages? well... they are saying it's the customer who needs to pay for the damages, so are they responsible? I guess they would have no issue then if the customer hires a security guard to watch their building 24/7? maybe install security cameras? they are responsible for the security of their car, after all. maybe the ones that can't afford security should just stakeout the repairshop in case a burglary happens? you can see how their argument is absolutely ridiculous the second you dig even partially into it.
Great video! Back in the 60’s I worked for a popular dealership on Division St. They sometimes would park overstock new cars on lots that rented them space. These were open spaces, no security. Spare tires in these cars were full size spares and were easily stolen because of the way the locks were made. The dealership could loose 10+ spares in one night. A thief could get a spare in 2 minutes by just puncturing a small hole next to the lock and twisting the small part of the lock and the trunk would open. I don’t know who was responsible, but I think the dealership had to file a claim to their insurance company. This was on 1968 model Chevrolets. Thanks…Jim
Unless the car dealership has a specific crime reference number from the police for the theft of that specific piece of a customers vehicle in their custody then they’re going to have a bad time when the owners insurance takes them to court.
I got the same call from my body shop, not a dealer. The car was in for body work and had been left outside overnight and was found with a hole in my dash where the stereo had been. Luckily they didn't do any damage to the wiring harness, they just unplugged it. But the difference is this body shop asked me how I wanted it taken care of. We talked, I happen to know exactly what I paid for it about a year earlier, and said all he had to do was reimburse me. I think he even gave me a little extra because it had been a year and the price probably went up. He took that amount off my cost for the body work. They didn't even ask me for receipt to prove how much I paid for it. That's how you supposed to be treated!
If she files an insurance claim, I would expect that her insurance company would have a serious discussion with the dealership's insurance company. In Ontario, we have a pseudo no-fault system, so the first claim would be to your insurance company, and then the insurance companies would decide on responsibility in the background.
What would happen up there if she didn't have theft insurance on the car? Down in the US the policies separate the types of liability. ie Theft, Collision, Bodily injury, Damage to other people's property..
@@refzz1259 In the no-fault state I'm familiar with (Michigan), no-fault only applies to collisions. If the car is parked, no-fault doesn't apply. I had a parked car hit by someone and their liability insurance had to pay.
The law was passed in 1919, not at the turn of the century. A brand new Model T costed $500, which would equate to $7,815 in 2021. People spend 10 times that amount on a car now, but only the wealthy could afford it then?
reasonable care and custody used to be the standard while I was in business back in the 70's in Calif. An automatic assumption of negligence is just wrong. After having worked on a car the owner did not pick it up for a few days and it was stolen and crashed. The thief was caught but of course he was a deadbeat so the owner of the car sued me because I had insurance. The judge found that I had taken reasonable care of the car, locked up and keys in a secure place and that he needed to sue the thief. Nothing stops thiefs who are bent on stealing, not fences, not cameras, not secure buildings. Just because someone has insurance doesn't mean they are liable for the misdeeds of others.
Years ago in the town I used to live we had one kinda big stereo installer. Before the “end” of its operation they were suspicious break ins within weeks of a vehicle getting a stereo installed that didn’t get a car alarm installed at the same installer. The thefts were clean steals with very little damage to the consoles and dashes. Needless to say they didn’t survive long after a few accusations and a raid by the sheriff department looking for those stolen radios.
LAW4NYC = $100! Sounds like she needs a "Better call Lehto" attorney! Highwaymen, scoundrels, and ne'er-do-wells take heed of this new law here in the Great State of Michigan!
Let's make sure all online reviews mention it, and include that they kicked you off the property. Thankfully, in Canada, the truth is a defense for defamation (unlike some countries such as Japan).
This is why I love having Flo and Jamie along with the rest of the team at progressive. After 10 years with them my girlfriend wrecked her car and they treated her like she had been with them for the whole time even though I only added her 6 months earlier. Then 5 years later an uninsured and unregistered driver tried to pass me when I was entering my driveway. Progressive paid me and said they were going after the other driver, 6 months later I got a letter from a lawyer for progressive saying they was going to court for the case, even paid me for my lost wages to go to court and testify.
Their proof is definitely in the pudding and I'll never use anyone else. Customer since 1990 and not once did I have to wait for a solution or came out feeling screwed. Too many examples to write here.
Worked at an urban dealership in the 80's. Thieves would cut the chainlink fence to steal wheels and radios. It was the car owners responsibility. Laws may have changed since then. Glad I didn't have to make those phone calls. As you stated it is written in the fine print right below where you sign the work order. If the people hadn't signed the dealership paid. We were instructed to have the customers read and sign. Also we were NOT allowed to put an X indicating where to sign. They had to "Read and sign"
Given that this is the 2nd time stuff was stolen and nothing was done to secure the space since the 1st time, doesn't that allow them to be sued on negligence Level?
Oh and I love Royal Oak my grandparents live there. I have so many memories from there and Farmington Hills. My uncle worked with Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, and a few others. I remember every weekend during spring when I would visit I would meet with the owner of Sumerset Mall. Haha, wow memories.
This reminds me of when I heard in many states in the US, if a dealership employee wrecks your car while you’re in for service your insurance company is responsible for getting it repaired which I think is insane. I forget which state it was but when a porter was moving a car he hit some thing and they went after vehicle owners insurance! If I remember right the porter didn’t even have a drivers license & the dealership was the one that had him move the car!
I love this episode. This same thing applies to Homeowner’s liability as well. I handled a claim, where the homeowner allowed his friend to leave a Polaris at his house / in his control. Thief broke into the house, stole stuff and also stole the Polaris. I had to accept liability and paid out the market value of the Polaris to our homeowner’s friend.
Seems that it would be better for the dealer to replace the cat rather than lose all sorts of business. I certainly wouldn't bring my car anywhere that behaved like that.
The nerve of the dealership to call the cops on the customers, and still refuse to apologize even after it's been covered on the news. They deserve no business.
I had my car at a repair shop, not a dealership, and they told me that the part was going to take a couple weeks to get. They were having catalytic converter thefts in the past and they recommended that I come get my car until the part comes in. I obliged.
I worked as a small repair shop in the mid 80's. The shop and parking lot was totally fenced. Two Rottweiller guard dogs were turned loose when the place closed. Never had an issue, the owner cared about his customers cars and his employees tools. Used car lot next door got "targeted" quit a bit.
A few years ago (2004) I had problems with an electrician who as lax in installing electricity in our new house. I photographed the problems and put up a web page. The electrician complained to me and I told him, if he does the work the page will be taken down. He did the work and I took down the page.
I LIKE that 1919 law in Michigan! The place in Canada needs a double fence with concertina wire between them, lots of floodlights, lots of high-resolution colour security cameras, and a ticked off old Marine with a shotgun and pocket full of rounds. AND new top management. AND a MAJOR ATTUTUDE ADJUSTMENT. And probably an adjustment to correct the obvious rectal/cranial inversion.
That phone call is begging for some George Carlin-esque criticism. " 'We've had some thefts.' Hey man, that's great! 'Had some thefts', shit, it sounds like they GAINED something! How'd they do that!?"
Thanks Steve, unfortunately I’m Canada once again we get screwed. No lemon law and this BS. I work at a Canadian dealer and they would do the same thing to customers. Dealer had no security, no cameras, nothing and every weekend customers cars would be vandalized. But to top that they would tell customers to claim on personal insurance when dealer employee crashed cars. It’s the wild Wild West just boggles your mind. Once tech got drivers licence pulled for drunk driving and they continued to allow him to work drive customers cars.
Every so often, you hear about a dealership doing something unethical or even illegal. You might hear it on the news, or a post somewhere, etc. People will sympathize with those affected. However, in a relatively short amount of time, everyone forgets.
Most states have Bailment Agreement laws. A bailment agreement is an agreement where one person agrees to take physical possession of another person's property for safekeeping or other purpose, but does not take ownership of it, with the understanding it will be returned at a later date. For example, if you take your watch to a repair shop and leave it there for a few days, the shop takes physical possession of your watch in order to repair it but does not receive ownership.
I work at a Chrysler dealership, by state law we aren't liable for things stolen from cars in our parking lot, but we take care of it when it happens. We do have cameras but the problem is incidents of theft and vandalism to cars is getting to be extremely common because the police are refusing to do anything about it since the majority of the people doing it are homeless. Funny thing is though, when they have one of their vehicles in for service they demand it stays locked inside the building until they pick it up, go figure :/
This was a pretty common theme when Judge Wapner presided over the television "People's Court." Judge Wapner frequently pointed out that when you drop your car off at the garage and they take possession to work on it, their taking possession "creates a bailment" in which they also assume responsibility for keeping the vehicle in substantively the same condition as when it arrived, aside from the problem they're supposed to fix.
If she has comprehensive insurance, she should claim the loss on that part of the policy and let the insurance company collect from the dealer's insurance. If she doesn't have comprehensive insurance, then she needs to retain an attorney and see what legal solutions are available. All of the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the comment section about "fairness" etc. is worthless.
Outrageous, don’t these places care about repeat customers? This is a great way to treat a loyal customer, I guarantee this person won’t ever buy a car from them ever again. I also guarantee they will tell everyone they know not to also. This seems like a great way for a dealership to go out of business and over a cat! We’re not talking about any real expense for the dealer to fix it maybe $2,000 in parts but I’m willing to bet they don’t pay anything close to that! An hour or two of a mechanics time? Seriously this is just an incredibly stupid business decision.
Valet I think would be different. Often times the valet is a 3rd party company hired by the owners of the property to park cars in the hiring company's lot. The valet should be responsible for damage they caused, but not damage that occured by someone else on the hiring company's property.
I read somewhere that valet companies or parking lots cannot simply avoid liability by creating a sign absolving them of same, if they use a parking attendant to drive your vehicle on the lot because they then control it. Prolly would not apply everywhere due to different state laws.
I would definitely argue, that the valet is paid by tip and company offer valet service, so that law would apply. Besides everyone knows the reason for valet keys are cause items ‘disappear’ from glove boxes and trunks… So yes I would assume the valet stole them just like the law would.
We had a case that was reported a few years ago in Upstate NY. A person took their car into the local Hoffman Jiffy Lube garage for an oil change. after the work was completed the mechanic stated that they needed to take the car for a test drive to ensure everything was good. This was a brand new Dodge Challenger Wildcat. The customer agrees and the mechanic then proceeds to take the car for a test drive. The mechanic looses control fo the car totaling it. The business then refuses to take responsibility and denies any liability.
The fact the dealership said "We" had some thefts makes them liable in itself, This customer should file a lawsuit against the dealership, I know I would, But in all reality the theft of our converter would be doing me a favor as our converter is faulty currently, lol 😆
This sounds like the dealership is stealing the catalytic converters themselves. Especially since they refused to improve security measures and instantly threw them out. I know it sounds conspiratorial, but come on.
Steve, in regards to a bailment and possession, what has to happen and when does legal possession of an item take place? For example, if you drop off a car that I'm unaware of and something gets stolen, did I legally take possession of the vehicle by the mere fact that you dropped off your car in my lot and now my business is on the hook for the theft even though I had no prior knowledge? If I was working on the car and something disappears then I get it, the responsibility would be with the garage owner. In this case it sounded like the customer had it towed there, was the towing company taking legal possession of the car before it got to the auto garage's lot and then transferred possession when they dropped it off. If my garage did the towing I would say yes then I took possession of the vehicle at that point, however if the customer just said "tow it to ABC's Garage and they will fix it" is the garage liable? TLDR; Is the garage held liable for the damage regardless of having prior knowledge of the car being there.
Depends when it was dropped off. After hours towing company is liable, but if dealership accepted it from tow during hours, and signed for it in some form or the other, it does then fall on them. They however are negligent, as the insurance companies all have the not small print that the insured party must ensure that all due care and appropriate control measures are taken with regards to the policy, so at a minimum the polict will include the stock on hand, which is likely insured, must be locked up securely at night, and that they must have adequate protection in place, not an open lot with no fence or gate, and no cameras on it.
Our current favorite car repair place in Thousand Oaks, California did some maintenance on our son's Miata. During the work, I got a call saying "you'll notice a new radiator in the car - we damaged it while working on the car. There will be no charge - it's our fault, so we've replaced it for you." Stand-up guys.
Several years ago I brought my BMW Z4 to the dealership I purchased it from, and brought it in for an oil change. When the valet brought out my car, he parked it in an active exit driveway. Another vehicle backed up and caused $2500 in body damage to my car, WITH THE VALET STILL IN THE VEHICLE! The BMW dealership manager refused to answer my calls and letters. I followed up with BMW Corporate, and was told that they do not get involved in matters related to their dealerships. Final result......my insurance paid for damages minus my $500 deductible and I will never, ever purchase another BMW.
It would be good to get a follow up on this story. A quick internet search shows that garage keepers liability insurance is offered in Ontario and may be required for business.
@@javavillain lol, you must not know much about the oil or motor vehicle industries. Damn government, handing out money to... (checks notes) renewable energy sources. Unfortunately they also bailed out the entire motor vehicle industry a few years back and give the oil companies literal billions in handouts every year, but good on you for begrudging one guy getting a discount on a technology that will help maintain a habitable planet longer.
The real culprit is the lack of Canadian laws making auto repair facilities responsible for this type of crime. I'm guessing that since this law hasn't been passed by now, it probably never will be. I don't know, but it's possible that there could be some states in the U.S. that also do not have laws to prevent this crime.
Can the Canadian family press charges of theft against the dealer? Wouldn’t they have to provide at least some evidence that they didn’t steal the catalytic converters themselves? The lack of cameras even after prior thefts could be construed as suspicious. An unscrupulous dealership could theoretically rob their own customers and cover it up by the complete lack of any security measures.
I find it really interesting that the dealership (on behalf of hyundai Canada) are happy to say that they are unable to keep your car safe in their hands! Doesn't feel like the best business model?!
It comes down to the insurance the shop had. There are three times of garage keepers cover that cover direct primary, direct secondary and legal liability. Sounds like they had cheaper out for only legal liability coverage…
When I give you a car that has a catalytic converter installed to work on, you return to me a car that has a catalytic converter installed with the work that I ordered complete. Simple as. May as well chargt you with the theft if you refuse.
Depends on the law. Some places and some states, they are not responsible. Best to request your vehicle be left inside when they are closed until the repairs are complete.
I work as a mechanic for a number of years in Massachusetts... Michigan laws are very. Much the same as Massachusetts when a garage keeper has custody of the vehicle...
We had this happen at the dealership I work at in Tennessee, 20 converters were stolen off new vehicles, 6 stolen from service dept customers vehicles, and 1 employee vehicle for a total of 27!! Dealership's insurance covered all 100%!
Too late for that, insurance contacts are full of inane stipulations. Good luck getting fire coverage without smoke detectors! Actuaries are deserving of every name they were called in school and then some! Their revenge was swift and brutal, but their methods have saved money. Perhaps, the government should have a Dept. of Actuaries. They could singlehandedly take _respectable bureaucrat_ off of the oxymoron list.
Sounds like the dealership is stealing them to drum up some more business. It would take very little insinuation to get some Canadian authorities interested in investigating the dealership or their technicians for these.
The fact that the dealership hasn't taken the most basic steps to prevent these thefts makes me strongly suspect they are complicit in them.
Very likely it is one of the mechanics, making extra on the side. Now with all this negative publicity they will find they have lost a tremendous amount of customers to other shops, and the best mechanics will up and leave as well, not wanting to be associated with them either.
There are literally rings of catalytic converter thieves and this has become a widespread problem, but yeah let's just make wild off-the-cuff accusations.
Reply to Michael- There are no cameras on the Dealership property and no fences at all”negligence” or complicity. But u can go and kiss company butt.
@@davidtomlinson4582 and I came into work one day on our lot which had fences, gates, multiple cameras and they stole every set of wheels on every Charger and Challenger. Guess what, fences didn't stop them from climbing over them and the cameras show a clear image of his hoodie and mask for the police to try to identify. I'll kiss company butt the moment you realize your point is stupid.
@@michaelcosta7235 No his point is spot on. If these thefts have happened many times in the past, why has the lot not hired overnight security? I bet if your work had overnight security those thefts might have stopped. But one reason this company didn't hire security is because they don't want/care about stopping these thefts. That raises several red flags. I'm hoping your not this stupid everyday Michael. Hopefully just on Tuesdays....right?
I had taken my truck to a Ford dealer for a fuel pump issue under warranty. While it was waiting for parts they performed a recall that I had told them in the past not to do because I didn't want a tech taking apart my door panels for a recall that only affects vehicles in freezing climates. I was told that if they have the vehicle in their possession they had to do it. My truck ended up getting damaged while sitting in the lot waiting on parts. They tried to say it wasn't their problem because it was sitting out in the lot. Told them they had already made it clear to me that the vehicle was "in their possession" when performing the recall so therefore it was "in their possession" when the damage occurred. At that point they decided to fix the damage free of charge.
Similar story happened to me, in Michigan at a Chrysler dealership in the late 80's. My car was one of nearly a dozen cars broken into. They broke my dash and stole the stereo and speakers. Dealer refused to help, like you mentioned in your video, they wanted me to file an insurance claim. I was eventually successful in getting them to fix my car and replace the equipment, but they were reluctant and horrible to work with. I swore to never buy a Chrysler product again and so far have kept this vow.
Well it's not like their parent company is doing well currently..
@@nickybeingnicky Automobile Dealerships are independent companies. Even though they sell new vehicles form a particular company, such as Chrysler or Kia, the company that makes the cars is not the parent, or even same, company as the dealership.
The actions described by Venture B and Steve Leto are completely the decisions of that dealership and the company that makes the cars they sell has nothing to do with it.
@@Naris48 what in gods name are you talking about? Lehto was talking about laws that protect the owner of the car while the car is in possession of a dealership or repair center.
I have the same vow for nearly the same reason but with my 300zx Nissan. IT'LL BE A VERY COLD DAY IN H3LL WHEN I BUY ANOTHER NISSAN...
The dealership should have insurance. Their insurance should've covered this.
When I worked in a body shop, every time a car came in, photos were taken of all sides of the car before work began. Its amazing how many times a customer would walk up to their car and say that a scratch wasn't on the car before we worked on it, before walking to the other side to point it out. There wasn't much argument when we showed them the photos.
I doubt anyone thought about taking a pic of their catalytic converter just to make sure it was there when they got their car back. 🙂
Yep, all of the Penske dealers in the Phoenix Valley (at the very least) have a camera setup at the entrance to every service lane and you don't get approached by an advisor until past those cameras. They were still installing them a couple of years ago when I worked IT for them and they almost immediately eliminated those "But that scratch/dent wasn't there when I brought it in"
yeah I took photos of my truck once when I dropped it off for repairs. They tried telling me I didn't come in with a tailgate. I showed them photos of the new guy near the back of my truck. They quickly 'found' it in the shop.
@@AsmodeusDHare
Did you ask them why it was removed?
Lot of the dealerships by me do that, video camera all around the vehicle, inside, under, top of roof, in engine bay, then fill in the paperwork, and what is in the vehicle ( spare wheel, jack, tools etc) plus noted on the entry doc of all dents noticed. Then it goes in for service. When finished it gets detailed inside and out before being parked in the yard. Every afternoon at 5 before close, after the service department is already closed for a half hour, and it has been swept and neatened up ,all those vehicles outside come and are jenga'd into the workshop itself for secure storage overnight, so the lot outside is left empty. If they have to park them on lifts and then fit them in , it will be done. Even though there is 24 hour security, alarm and cameras this is still cheaper than having to pay for damage because somebody waited for the guard to be past and on the other side, and steal off tyres from 3 or 4 vehicles.
The dealership also took no precautions after the first thefts, so they were either negligent in their responsibility or perhaps they stole the cat converters themselves ???
I say they work with the cat thieves. It's too easy. No cameras, fences and they have employees who can take apart cars.
That would be a pretty good racket. Steal the cats at night and reinstall them in the daytime.
@@KabobHope yeah until customers come knocking and saying. hey something is not right here.
It was their meth head detail boy supporting his habbit... and no one thought anything about it because he is supposed to be there. He just happens to have a lithium dewalt demolition saw in his trunk with a few extra batteries and some red devil blades.
@@TheSegert reminds me of the airbag theft gang. They stole hundreds of airbags every month and sold them to a shop who had the cheapest airbag replacement in the city. Didn’t get arrested till taxes proved a disconnect from earnings to claimed taxes. While there wasn’t a direct connection, it was a symbiotic relationship.
Wow, almost the same thing happened to me! Had a whole new custom exhaust put on my car at a name brand muffler shop then took it to a different shop to have the emissions done. (this was in California) Long story short, the entire exhaust system was stolen including the new headers. Shop owner said he wasn't responsible and I still owed him the cost to emission it. I refused and he ended up taking me to court. Court sided with him even though it was clearly his responsibility, he and a couple employees stated in court that I brought it in that way? bear in mind I still had the receipts from the other shop and a letter from them about the work they did! Judge wouldn't listen, guess they were both members of the Moose lodge or something. YES!! I did a stupid and tried to represent myself in this!! HERE'S WHERE IT GETS GOOD! I got a copy of the court transcripts and went to the State emission board and asked them how someone could emission check a vehicle without an exhaust system. I told them the whole and truthful story (Yes, they probably did check it when the system was still on) They were very interested since he lied. The inspector that went to the shop asked about it and he again said I brought it in that way. The inspector then asked how was he able to do the emissions then....Crickets! They lost their license on the spot! California don't f*** around about that kinda thing. The BBB even found out and pulled their membership. Word got out and they really lost a lot of business and ended up closing about a year later! I had another system put on but since it already had emissions I was cool with how it turned out. I left California a little after all this and never went back even for family events.🤣🤣
I used to work for one of the aftermarket automotive test equipment companies, where I worked on (among other things) California emissions testing equipment. I used my Toyota Camry as my "test article", and was intimately familiar with its emissions characteristics. We moved to California, and I took the car in, to be tested, on the equipment I helped develop. The test came back showing that the car needed a new catalytic converter (not!). I took it to another shop, it passed with flying colors, and immediately reported the incident to the Bureau of Automotive Repair. The first place was shut down within days.
"bear in mind I still had the receipts from the other shop and a letter from them about the work they did! Judge wouldn't listen, guess they were both members of the Moose lodge or something." NO! The hearsay rule applies here. You can't introduce evidence by just showing a letter to the judge. You might want to bone up on the hearsay rule. Just admit it - YOU screwed up - not the judge.
@@colt4667 well, i thought that hearsay was when one person is stating what some one else said? receipts and letter is from another business, who willingly provided business information on what they did. and in this case, its not testimony, they are documents of what busines A did arent they?
@@davidwillims2004 Letters and documents can be made up falsely. The writer would be subject to cross examination. If the writer is not in court there would be no cross examination. Therefore the hearsay rule applies.
@@colt4667 That's DOCUMENTATION, not hearsay.
The dealership's insurance should cover the theft. This happened at a shop I worked for where thieves cut through the fence of a gated and locked lot (with barbed wire) and stole the complete rear end out from a truck. This was a small family-owned shop and we didn't waste time trying to check the relevant state laws to see if we could additionally inconvenience the customer, we just called our insurance, paid the deductible, and moved on.
I dunno if a customer can directly fille a claim against their shop insurance. All shops need to have insurance. We had a car stolen once (car had no insurance) and garage policy paid out without issues.
The deductible on a commercial policy like that is $5-10k.
I’ll work on farm equipment and trucks, even a few cars here and there, as long as no one is in a hurry. This happened to to me on a diesel truck. They hacked off the DPF. The guy pushed the issue on me instead of filing an insurance claim. It was the last thing he ever brought to my shop.
It cost him $100k in dealership repair bills within a year. A Mercedes sprayer motor blew, I know to to convert them over to a Cummins 5.9 for 25% the cost. I also can get around very expensive tin work on worn out elevators to the grain tank, and can pretty much rebuild the 8.1’s, 9.0’s, 12.5’s, 13.5’s and 15.0’s blind folded. He had a lot of expensive break downs, and he can keep going back to John Deere. I don’t want him here. I do it for fun, to teach my kids, not as a business.
My man!
@@LtColDaddy71 Our's was $1000
You have to file a claim on your own insurance as I found out
Had an issue once with a Hyundai dealership. Dropped my Sonata off for warranty work. While the car was on their lot waiting to be repaired they moved it out of the parking spot it was in to a location near (but still outside) the entrance to the service area. A bit later a large delivery truck decided to back up and didn't see my car, backing into it and damaging the passenger side doors. The dealership called me and wanted ME to file a claim. Sorry, nope. It's totally on you buddy. Then I told them I needed a loaner car (they had a rental office in their showroom). They were like sure no problem, just give us your credit card number and we'll have it ready for you within the hour. Nope, nope, NOPE. That one's on you too. Ended up keeping the loaner for nearly eight weeks waiting for parts for my car. We won out in the end but Steve is right - they'll ask you to pay for their mistakes every time.
So let me get this straight, the dealership was in charge of the vehicle, the vehicle was vandalised and a part was taken, the dealership has had thefts on lot before, there are no cameras and the dealership is not taking any responsibility for the loss.
I call bullshit, the dealership is at it. They themselves more than likely took the part and are passing it off as a spate of thefts.
Was thinking this too. They are ether in on it. Or doing it themselves. Otherwise they would have reacted differently. I see loads of people see and are thinking that.
Exactly. I also wonder, were catalytic converters stolen off their new vehicles on the lot or was it only customer vehicles that “were targeted”? The lack of security cameras and their attitude make the dealership or employees the most likely thieves
I was also thinking they don't have insurance.
It’s possible that they had cameras but either didn’t get a clear shot of the perp’s face or are in a city where the cops just don’t bother to investigate property crimes.
@@Metal_Auditor You didn’t listen to the video or read the article, did you?
🤦♂️ In this day and age where EVERYTHING eventually gets posted to the internet, that dealership had to know how badly this would make them look once it got posted, so regardless if the law there technically means they're not liable, they should've just eaten the cost to save their reputation!
they shouldnt be given a licence renewal after a lot of ppl take them to court. In fact they should have that licenced suspended on 2 accounts - the 2nd being not allowed to business in Canada again.
They are liable though, its blatant lies to try and get out of paying.
If a vehicle has been dropped off at their lot, with intent to have the vehicle serviced, they are liable to any damage to the vehicle that occurs while on the lot.
There's a lot of businesses, who still make the bet that "who's gonna give a hoot if you whine in some internet forum?". The problem? Sometimes that's exactly how it goes. Joe Average make a complaint on social media, 5 people say "that's outrageous" and 30 click on thumbs up but then it just fizzles out. It's really about luck if you can get the justice through public pressure.
Years ago I took a car to a dealer for a scheduled recall. While there the timing chain broke. They told me broke while they were driving into the garage and they charged me for the repair. When I got the car back, there was a parking ticket on the floor. Someone had taken the car to go get lunch. That's when the chain broke (God only knows what they were doing.) After threatening the dealer with legal action, I got my money back.
That reminds me of when I took my car to a repair shop to get the alternator replaced, and I left it overnight. When I picked up the car it didn't run correctly, and later I found out that one of the turbos had seized. I wish I had pressed them to fix it at their cost, because I had the suspicion that they were hot rodding after they replaced the alternator.
Money back isn’t enough. Someone should be charged with fraud.
They were drag racing while going to get lunch, pick up car parts and drop off other customers who left their cars to be fixed. I took my brand new VW to the VW dealer to get work done on a recall. The dealer said I had to leave the insurance and registration info in the car. I said no way and took my car and left. I called the VW corporate number and complained. VW corp called me back and they said they spoke to the dealer. They said the dealer denied they ever said that. I think they were going to use my car to run errands and other stuff.
@@sd906238 -- They were certainly doing something to the car they shouldn't have. It was a slant 6 with around 70,000 miles on it. You don't break those engines without serious abuse.
That is horrible. I got dent on my car and services not done correctly from A DEALERSHIP. They charge more than independent shops! This is why I mostly stick to mobile mechanic or keep an eye on my car while they work on it.
I think if it was me that I would have approached this law suit from the same angle that the dealer did. My claim would have been that the dealership was the one that was targeted and not me. My evidence would have been that in spite of numerous previous thefts and even thefts that have occurred since my car was victimized, the dealership still has zero security measures in place to protect their customers property while in their custody. I would also point out that the dealership had no signs posted to make their customers aware that they have been having problems with thefts from customers vehicles left in their care. It seems like at the least that the dealership would be responsible to warn the public that there is a high probability that they could be the victim of some sort of theft if they leave their car with them overnight. I have a suspicion that these thieves have an inside connection with someone who works there. I'll bet if they installed cameras the thefts would stop immediately because the man on the inside would warn the thieves about the cameras. One thing is certain though, the thieves did not target the customers car!!! They targeted the dealership and they will continue to target the dealership until a security system is installed!!!
Ya gotta love the passive voice! Sh!t happens after all.
Anyone who sees this story and still patronizes that dealership deserves whatever they get. It’s hard to say which. Is worse,
1. Their lack of care for their customers’ property (no security, no cameras); or
2. Their lack of accountability or even concern over their own negligence.
Or is it that THEY stole the cats themselves? I hope the customers file suit with the State Board of Equalization, sues them in civil court, get the story up on local news, ask the DA to investigate wether it was an inside job, Sue the garages insurance for not requiring cameras, sue the owners for gross negligence for not having cameras installed after the first break in...
lol no one is required to have cameras.
@@billyyank5807 by the state? No. By insurance companies? Can indeed be the case.
@@patricksanders858 can't sue someone because they Dont have cameras. there's no law requiring cameras gtfo.
@@billyyank5807 yeah but you can sue them for negligence. And not installing cameras after multiple thefts might constitute negligence.
"The Supreme Court of Canada recently decided that a garage owner does not owe a duty of care to those injured as a result of theft from their premises." Wow! Does someone pay the Supreme Court?
The Justices will pass a law once they become the victims.
@@Bdamazyn "The Justices will [reverse themselves] once they become the victims."
The SCoC is ruling based on the current laws. The solution is to change the laws.
@@musicloverme3993 yes, thank you for the correction.
@@Bdamazyn My pleasure.
I have to wonder, were any cat converters stolen from cars in the dealer's lot, or were only customer's cars in for service "targeted"? If none of the dealerships cars were messed with then I have to suspect the dealer is behind the thefts.
There is another part to that question.
The vehicles targeted, all higher ground clearance vehicles?
Or did the thieves bring jacks to get under all the lower riding cars?
I'm building a taller vehicle. No cats. And the gas tanks you can see are rusted out junk.
It’s totally an inside thing
@@ctom4932 I'm also suspicious of the dealership, but I just wanted to add that these theives often do bring a jack. There are videos on TH-cam of theives jacking up a car, stealing the converter, and putting the car back down in less than 5 minutes.
@@ctom4932 I can change a tire on the side of a highway in under 5 minutes from stop to rolling. Add in a sawzall without a tire change I can be in and out in under 1 minute.
@@Seasniffer69 the most commonly targeted vehicles for these thefts are trucks and SUVs.
I wouldn't be surprised if a dealership cat theft featured every SUV hit, but no cars.
IDK if that was the case here or not.
I also don't know if their sales department had any SUVs in stock at the time.
Early 80s, took car into a dealership for warranty work. When I drove it away, it was loud from a hole in the cat. I went back and they told me it was from rust. You guys just helped it along! I lost my temper and they called cops on me.
One of the reasons for these liability laws like those in Michigan.....what's preventing the shop from stealing the cats and just reporting it as a random theft?
That would be a felony you are aware? So the answer is what stops them from committing other felonies.
@@otm646 what stops the CIA from using trafficked children to create blackmail for controlling high value assets like politicians or celebrities
@@otm646 its only a felony if you get caught and without camera's they can't prove who did or didn't do it. could have been an employee and would have never known it.
Not much, and that's exactly the point.
@@otm646 Most crimes like this are crimes of opportunity. A poor shop worker having access and knowledge of where the cars are is that specific opportunity. Not to mention, knowledge that there is no security nor cameras to catch them. Go ahead and chat with people in jail....the idea of felony vs misdemeanor doesnt even cross their minds.
And yes, this is precisely why especially with high dollar items such as cars, the liability for the car transfers to the shop while they accepted the custody of it. It ensures that if they break something through incompetence or negligence, they're responsible for fixing it. Similarly it provides incentives to ensure that the cars are properly secured to prevent external thefts as talked about in the video or to catch internal thefts so those responsible are held accountable.
Nice world you live in though, where everyone just knows what felonies are and are disuaded from even attempting such a thing...I mean a felony?! seriously?! I mean who would do such a thing?!
When I was at college, I took my car to a local garage for some work that took a few days. The subwoofer and amp was stolen from the trunk while the car was in their possession, no exterior damage or sign of forced break in. Garage told me to file an insurance claim. My car insurance denied the claim - the subwoofer and amp wasn't bolted down in the car in a manner that they approve of to make it part of the vehicle, they treated it as stolen loose car contents which the policy didn't cover. When I went to get the vehicle back from the garage, I see my sub and amp in a mechanic's car. Police wouldn't help because I couldn't prove those were mine. I was too young and dumb to get a lawyer at the time.
I had the exact same thing happen to me! My car was in a little repair shop and when I got it back I was missing a Sony PSP, a 24 pack of water, and a 24 pack of planters peanuts. The manager was in the middle of telling me how they weren't responsible and how I should have taken everything of value out of my car when I spotted the peanuts open in the back work area. He fumbled over some words and said he would pay me cash for everything!
I would’ve figured out where the guy lived and took them back at night
This very thing happened to me while my truck was at a Pep Boys for rear-end repair. They didn't want to do anything about it so I wrote an email to corporate. The Pep Boys manager called and said corporate authorized him to offer me either they do the rear-end work for free or fix the cat. converter situation for free. The rear-end work was like three times the cost of a new cat. converter so, yeah, I went with that.
That’s a very fair deal
Was a blessing in disguise. Gotta love that
No disrespect, but… you entrusted pep boys to repair, service or otherwise touch your differential (rear end) !!!!!!?????!!!! It will fail in soon enough sorry to say!! (Free advice that I know you did not solicit). Please do not go to pep boys anymore. Especially, do not let them touch anything that requires talent for your sake.
It’s been my experience that calling corporate in situations like this often works out surprisingly well.
I work at a local shop in Tulsa. We have six locations, but we're no dealership. We still take care of catalytic converter thefts that happen on our watch. Six this year so far. We do take precautions though. Vehicles with easily accessible converters are always inside overnight. The rest are in a locked area with a lot of security cameras and alarms.
If I hand my car over to a business for repairs, storage, whatever, and while in their custody it is damaged, stolen or otherwise mutilated or abused, I see no common sense reason they and their insurance should not be liable. The law may see it otherwise, since the law is influenced by the lobbyists for the insurance agencies, but come on. I entrusted my property to you, and you failed to protect it.
Lobbying should be outlawed. Since it is outright corruption.
Ah, common sense, of the senses the least common.
Avi8e66, in your opinion, where should the liability fall if you have an unscheduled vehicle towed to the property after business hours?
@@thomasjohnson2435 As it stands now I would say that lands on the person who decided to drop it off. They are choosing to leave the vehicle in an unmanaged location. The property, let's say dealer, has not accepted the handover of your property, you just dumped it on their doorstep. Once they process it in, different story. But until then, it was the choice of whoever told the tow truck driver to drop it off. Probably oversimplifying it.
P
I have been in many dealerships in Ontario Canada and most have a huge sigh says we are not responsible for anything in your vehicle or any damages well its here for service .
Car dealers being scumbags? Never happens. 🤡
Honestly, as consumers, we need to make vendors, companies, dealers, doctors, whoever sign our documents if they want our business which represents us and outlines our rights.
I.e., if the dealer tries getting you to sing something, you should have something that they sign, which ofcourse initially none will
However, if everyone demands their paperwork be signed. They will eventually be forced to. As they will go out of business if they don't.
That's the kind of thing people need to do.
That would only work if consumers had any collective bargaining power whatsoever, and consumers definitely don't have that.
@@ocoolwow in a way they do, if customers avoid business a , then that business will go out of business. and there is no appeal process to get that fixed . but it does require more than one customer to know about it, which if it was on the news, or on the internet. then many customers would avoid like the plague,
@@davidwillims2004 except for every 1 customer that cares you have 10 others that don't give a shit
Car dealership needs to have had some lawsuits. Just when I think I've conquered my rabid cynicism...,
I moved my cynicism on to Stalinistic. Much easier than having to randomly react.
Wow, Steve’s in a mood today! No tolerance for this dealer’s lack of responsibility. Good. No one should tolerate that. Need some Canadian legislators to tighten up these laws.
The car dealerships are some of the biggest donors to politicians.🤑💰
so whats stopping the dealership from stealing the cat. converters themselves and then charging the customer for a replacement all while selling the stolen converters?
what's to stop them from knocking out people and taking their gold teeth?
@@frankyflowers the conscience and the law have proven ineffective in stopping a lot of crime.
Instead of changing a comment that made a poor argument, either accept you were wrong or delete it. Your edit stands out.
@@frankyflowers Dumb question. One of those crimes can be done in secret while the other one involves assault, bodily harm, robbery, and it leaves a witness behind who will immediately report the crime to the police.
I would not be surprised if it was the car dealerships stold your Cadillac converter off to give to somebody else that needed one and said it was stolen
@@justinmyers9515 Catalytic.
Priceless common sense, you da man Steve!
Wow, nothing like some great customer service!
on CBC news site I read saying that they won;t help do to her attitude
@@niyablake I'm thinking her later attitude was down to their initial attitude.
I'm also thinking a car dealership with no security cameras has something to hide...
@@GARDENER42 when the dealership said that I was laughing , you told her to f off and called the cops on her . Then can't understand why she is salty
@@niyablake Imagine her, being angry with the dealership!
This utter lack of security and willful negligence is almost certainly meaning its an inside job.
inside job or not I say these guys are a bunch of crooks
In Calif, the facility must take "reasonable" care of the vehicle. Even if the shop says "Not responsible for theft", they can be responsible. It depends on THEIR actions.
If they have a gated/fenced/locked area, with the car locked, and keys in a secured place, etc., YOUR insurance is responsible. If they leave it out on the street overnight, in a high-crime area, with the windows rolled down and the keys it, that's not Reasonable care.
It's no different than big box stores that post signs that claim they are not responsible for damage from shopping carts. It's designed to get people to just leave and it's more effective than most would think.
@@swiggs1999--The people using shopping carts are not employees of the business.
I could see your point if the business had No collection areas for carts in the parking lot.
Would the business also be responsible for Door Dings? It happened on their property by potential customers of that business.
@@ronmcmartin4513 that's tough because the other cars don't belong to the business. Where shopping carts do. So if a car hits your car and busts a taillight out not only does it happen on company x's property but it's their property that did the damage.
@@swiggs1999--I agree. Purposefully ramming a cart would be a criminal offense. But usually, no one is in control of a windblown cart(Act of God?). That's why I made the exception for Collection Areas, which seems like a Reasonable attempt to mitigate the problem("reasonable care"?)
@@ronmcmartin4513 Actually, the grocery store IS in control of their carts. They can put brakes on them or have employees gather them. Heck, they can get rid of the carts altogether if they wanted. Or they can put pool noodle bumpers on them, only allow customer to take their cart to the curb and have them bring their car up. Lots of things can be done.
Here is the problem: What if the 'thieves' have connections with that dealership? Perhaps the police should start an investigation into that dealership if this has happened more than once.
If I was the dealership in question, I would realize how much business something like this would make me lose and I would have my lot video-recorded out the wazoo.
Your insurance will likely want to talk to the dealership in this case.... Tunes will change..
Not if the deductible is more than the price of the converter.
Good explanation of CC&C law Steve. Well done!
the term "care custody and control" comes to mind when these actions occur .
here's the better question... let's say for a second they are completely right, they are not liable in any way...
who is responsible for keeping it from happening then? Does this mean they are responsible for keeping it safe but, if they fail, oh well? responsible for safety but not if it happens? at what point does this make anywhere? the bank is responsible for protecting the money, but if it's stolen, oh well it's the customer's fault? you see how this argument rapidly fails.
so... who IS responsible for the safekeeping of the care, and thus, liable for the damages?
well... they are saying it's the customer who needs to pay for the damages, so are they responsible? I guess they would have no issue then if the customer hires a security guard to watch their building 24/7? maybe install security cameras? they are responsible for the security of their car, after all. maybe the ones that can't afford security should just stakeout the repairshop in case a burglary happens?
you can see how their argument is absolutely ridiculous the second you dig even partially into it.
I find that a strongly worded letter from a lawyer is often enough to get a business to do the right thing.
And even more so when treble damages are involved!
yes but finding an attorney is difficult and they will probably want hundreds of dollars for a couple hours of work.
Great video! Back in the 60’s I worked for a popular dealership on Division St. They sometimes would park overstock new cars on lots that rented them space. These were open spaces, no security. Spare tires in these cars were full size spares and were easily stolen because of the way the locks were made. The dealership could loose 10+ spares in one night. A thief could get a spare in 2 minutes by just puncturing a small hole next to the lock and twisting the small part of the lock and the trunk would open. I don’t know who was responsible, but I think the dealership had to file a claim to their insurance company. This was on 1968 model Chevrolets. Thanks…Jim
Unless the car dealership has a specific crime reference number from the police for the theft of that specific piece of a customers vehicle in their custody then they’re going to have a bad time when the owners insurance takes them to court.
I got the same call from my body shop, not a dealer. The car was in for body work and had been left outside overnight and was found with a hole in my dash where the stereo had been. Luckily they didn't do any damage to the wiring harness, they just unplugged it. But the difference is this body shop asked me how I wanted it taken care of. We talked, I happen to know exactly what I paid for it about a year earlier, and said all he had to do was reimburse me. I think he even gave me a little extra because it had been a year and the price probably went up. He took that amount off my cost for the body work. They didn't even ask me for receipt to prove how much I paid for it. That's how you supposed to be treated!
If she files an insurance claim, I would expect that her insurance company would have a serious discussion with the dealership's insurance company.
In Ontario, we have a pseudo no-fault system, so the first claim would be to your insurance company, and then the insurance companies would decide on responsibility in the background.
What would happen up there if she didn't have theft insurance on the car? Down in the US the policies separate the types of liability. ie Theft, Collision, Bodily injury, Damage to other people's property..
@@paulmea3166 then she would have to sue the company. Most of the time for a business to charge insurance they have to be sued.
No fault literally means that they don't determine fault in the background.
@Adrian Wintle :
And if, as Steve pointed out in his report, the shop has NO insurance????
@@refzz1259 In the no-fault state I'm familiar with (Michigan), no-fault only applies to collisions. If the car is parked, no-fault doesn't apply. I had a parked car hit by someone and their liability insurance had to pay.
“It falls on thee”. Love it. Great vid, Steve.
I bet said law was passed to protect the WEALTHY (who could afford cars) at the turn of the century, not the the factory worker!
The law was passed in 1919, not at the turn of the century. A brand new Model T costed $500, which would equate to $7,815 in 2021. People spend 10 times that amount on a car now, but only the wealthy could afford it then?
reasonable care and custody used to be the standard while I was in business back in the 70's in Calif. An automatic assumption of negligence is just wrong. After having worked on a car the owner did not pick it up for a few days and it was stolen and crashed. The thief was caught but of course he was a deadbeat so the owner of the car sued me because I had insurance. The judge found that I had taken reasonable care of the car, locked up and keys in a secure place and that he needed to sue the thief. Nothing stops thiefs who are bent on stealing, not fences, not cameras, not secure buildings. Just because someone has insurance doesn't mean they are liable for the misdeeds of others.
The new definition of customer service: Nope, don't wanna deal with it. You're on your own , not my responsibility!!
Years ago in the town I used to live we had one kinda big stereo installer. Before the “end” of its operation they were suspicious break ins within weeks of a vehicle getting a stereo installed that didn’t get a car alarm installed at the same installer. The thefts were clean steals with very little damage to the consoles and dashes. Needless to say they didn’t survive long after a few accusations and a raid by the sheriff department looking for those stolen radios.
Fort Wayne, Indiana? That is exactly what happened to me.
LAW4NYC = $100! Sounds like she needs a "Better call Lehto" attorney! Highwaymen, scoundrels, and ne'er-do-wells take heed of this new law here in the Great State of Michigan!
Let's make sure all online reviews mention it, and include that they kicked you off the property. Thankfully, in Canada, the truth is a defense for defamation (unlike some countries such as Japan).
This is why I love having Flo and Jamie along with the rest of the team at progressive. After 10 years with them my girlfriend wrecked her car and they treated her like she had been with them for the whole time even though I only added her 6 months earlier. Then 5 years later an uninsured and unregistered driver tried to pass me when I was entering my driveway. Progressive paid me and said they were going after the other driver, 6 months later I got a letter from a lawyer for progressive saying they was going to court for the case, even paid me for my lost wages to go to court and testify.
Their proof is definitely in the pudding and I'll never use anyone else. Customer since 1990 and not once did I have to wait for a solution or came out feeling screwed. Too many examples to write here.
Worked at an urban dealership in the 80's. Thieves would cut the chainlink fence to steal wheels and radios. It was the car owners responsibility. Laws may have changed since then.
Glad I didn't have to make those phone calls.
As you stated it is written in the fine print right below where you sign the work order. If the people hadn't signed the dealership paid. We were instructed to have the customers read and sign. Also we were NOT allowed to put an X indicating where to sign. They had to "Read and sign"
Given that this is the 2nd time stuff was stolen and nothing was done to secure the space since the 1st time, doesn't that allow them to be sued on negligence Level?
Oh and I love Royal Oak my grandparents live there. I have so many memories from there and Farmington Hills. My uncle worked with Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, and a few others. I remember every weekend during spring when I would visit I would meet with the owner of Sumerset Mall. Haha, wow memories.
"Eli, it falls on thee." Steve, the law was for motorcars and garages not Amish buggy repairs. Lol!!!
Still, I am impressed that Steve managed to use multiple forms of "thou" without mixing them up.
This reminds me of when I heard in many states in the US, if a dealership employee wrecks your car while you’re in for service your insurance company is responsible for getting it repaired which I think is insane. I forget which state it was but when a porter was moving a car he hit some thing and they went after vehicle owners insurance! If I remember right the porter didn’t even have a drivers license & the dealership was the one that had him move the car!
Hundo, unfolded, in front of the TH-cam award, on the left wall shelf. 10.
you guys have a quick eye
@@volvo09 And very sedate life.
I love this episode. This same thing applies to Homeowner’s liability as well. I handled a claim, where the homeowner allowed his friend to leave a Polaris at his house / in his control. Thief broke into the house, stole stuff and also stole the Polaris. I had to accept liability and paid out the market value of the Polaris to our homeowner’s friend.
Seems that it would be better for the dealer to replace the cat rather than lose all sorts of business. I certainly wouldn't bring my car anywhere that behaved like that.
Care, costudy and control. Full responsibility period. Cover by Dealership Garage Insurance Policy.
The nerve of the dealership to call the cops on the customers, and still refuse to apologize even after it's been covered on the news. They deserve no business.
I had my car at a repair shop, not a dealership, and they told me that the part was going to take a couple weeks to get. They were having catalytic converter thefts in the past and they recommended that I come get my car until the part comes in. I obliged.
I’m surprised they didn’t straight pipe it secretly for her to find out the issue at the next car inspection.
I worked as a small repair shop in the mid 80's. The shop and parking lot was totally fenced. Two Rottweiller guard dogs were turned loose when the place closed. Never had an issue, the owner cared about his customers cars and his employees tools. Used car lot next door got "targeted" quit a bit.
A few years ago (2004) I had problems with an electrician who as lax in installing electricity in our new house. I photographed the problems and put up a web page. The electrician complained to me and I told him, if he does the work the page will be taken down. He did the work and I took down the page.
I LIKE that 1919 law in Michigan!
The place in Canada needs a double fence with concertina wire between them, lots of floodlights, lots of high-resolution colour security cameras, and a ticked off old Marine with a shotgun and pocket full of rounds.
AND new top management.
AND a MAJOR ATTUTUDE ADJUSTMENT.
And probably an adjustment to correct the obvious rectal/cranial inversion.
That phone call is begging for some George Carlin-esque criticism. " 'We've had some thefts.' Hey man, that's great! 'Had some thefts', shit, it sounds like they GAINED something! How'd they do that!?"
Thanks Steve, unfortunately I’m Canada once again we get screwed. No lemon law and this BS.
I work at a Canadian dealer and they would do the same thing to customers.
Dealer had no security, no cameras, nothing and every weekend customers cars would be vandalized.
But to top that they would tell customers to claim on personal insurance when dealer employee crashed cars.
It’s the wild Wild West just boggles your mind.
Once tech got drivers licence pulled for drunk driving and they continued to allow him to work drive customers cars.
Every so often, you hear about a dealership doing something unethical or even illegal. You might hear it on the news, or a post somewhere, etc. People will sympathize with those affected. However, in a relatively short amount of time, everyone forgets.
it's almost expected for them to be crooked.
Most states have Bailment Agreement laws. A bailment agreement is an agreement where one person agrees to take physical possession of another person's property for safekeeping or other purpose, but does not take ownership of it, with the understanding it will be returned at a later date. For example, if you take your watch to a repair shop and leave it there for a few days, the shop takes physical possession of your watch in order to repair it but does not receive ownership.
I work at a Chrysler dealership, by state law we aren't liable for things stolen from cars in our parking lot, but we take care of it when it happens. We do have cameras but the problem is incidents of theft and vandalism to cars is getting to be extremely common because the police are refusing to do anything about it since the majority of the people doing it are homeless. Funny thing is though, when they have one of their vehicles in for service they demand it stays locked inside the building until they pick it up, go figure :/
This was a pretty common theme when Judge Wapner presided over the television "People's Court." Judge Wapner frequently pointed out that when you drop your car off at the garage and they take possession to work on it, their taking possession "creates a bailment" in which they also assume responsibility for keeping the vehicle in substantively the same condition as when it arrived, aside from the problem they're supposed to fix.
If she has comprehensive insurance, she should claim the loss on that part of the policy and let the insurance company collect from the dealer's insurance. If she doesn't have comprehensive insurance, then she needs to retain an attorney and see what legal solutions are available. All of the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the comment section about "fairness" etc. is worthless.
Her COMP policy would pay, but she would have a deductible atleast $500 to pay, and then her rates go way up. I say get a lawyer and sue.
Outrageous, don’t these places care about repeat customers? This is a great way to treat a loyal customer, I guarantee this person won’t ever buy a car from them ever again. I also guarantee they will tell everyone they know not to also. This seems like a great way for a dealership to go out of business and over a cat! We’re not talking about any real expense for the dealer to fix it maybe $2,000 in parts but I’m willing to bet they don’t pay anything close to that! An hour or two of a mechanics time? Seriously this is just an incredibly stupid business decision.
Out of curiosity...does the "garage keeper's liability act" also apply to valet parking? They often have a 'disclaimer' on the ticket.
Valet I think would be different. Often times the valet is a 3rd party company hired by the owners of the property to park cars in the hiring company's lot. The valet should be responsible for damage they caused, but not damage that occured by someone else on the hiring company's property.
I read somewhere that valet companies or parking lots cannot simply avoid liability by creating a sign absolving them of same, if they use a parking attendant to drive your vehicle on the lot because they then control it. Prolly would not apply everywhere due to different state laws.
I would definitely argue, that the valet is paid by tip and company offer valet service, so that law would apply.
Besides everyone knows the reason for valet keys are cause items ‘disappear’ from glove boxes and trunks…
So yes I would assume the valet stole them just like the law would.
We had a case that was reported a few years ago in Upstate NY. A person took their car into the local Hoffman Jiffy Lube garage for an oil change. after the work was completed the mechanic stated that they needed to take the car for a test drive to ensure everything was good. This was a brand new Dodge Challenger Wildcat. The customer agrees and the mechanic then proceeds to take the car for a test drive. The mechanic looses control fo the car totaling it. The business then refuses to take responsibility and denies any liability.
8 IP cameras, recorder and POE switch would be less than a cat!
The fact the dealership said "We" had some thefts makes them liable in itself, This customer should file a lawsuit against the dealership, I know I would, But in all reality the theft of our converter would be doing me a favor as our converter is faulty currently, lol 😆
This sounds like the dealership is stealing the catalytic converters themselves. Especially since they refused to improve security measures and instantly threw them out. I know it sounds conspiratorial, but come on.
Well put! If the dealership doesn’t want to be perceived as complicit, they should have made any effort to avoid even an appearance of impropriety
This law was wonderfully written.
Steve, in regards to a bailment and possession, what has to happen and when does legal possession of an item take place? For example, if you drop off a car that I'm unaware of and something gets stolen, did I legally take possession of the vehicle by the mere fact that you dropped off your car in my lot and now my business is on the hook for the theft even though I had no prior knowledge?
If I was working on the car and something disappears then I get it, the responsibility would be with the garage owner. In this case it sounded like the customer had it towed there, was the towing company taking legal possession of the car before it got to the auto garage's lot and then transferred possession when they dropped it off. If my garage did the towing I would say yes then I took possession of the vehicle at that point, however if the customer just said "tow it to ABC's Garage and they will fix it" is the garage liable?
TLDR; Is the garage held liable for the damage regardless of having prior knowledge of the car being there.
Depends when it was dropped off. After hours towing company is liable, but if dealership accepted it from tow during hours, and signed for it in some form or the other, it does then fall on them. They however are negligent, as the insurance companies all have the not small print that the insured party must ensure that all due care and appropriate control measures are taken with regards to the policy, so at a minimum the polict will include the stock on hand, which is likely insured, must be locked up securely at night, and that they must have adequate protection in place, not an open lot with no fence or gate, and no cameras on it.
In B.C., where I am in Canada, shops have insurance on all vehicles on their property or being driven by their staff.
Love how the story gets worse as it goes.
Our current favorite car repair place in Thousand Oaks, California did some maintenance on our son's Miata. During the work, I got a call saying "you'll notice a new radiator in the car - we damaged it while working on the car. There will be no charge - it's our fault, so we've replaced it for you." Stand-up guys.
Several years ago I brought my BMW Z4 to the dealership I purchased it from, and brought it in for an oil change. When the valet brought out my car, he parked it in an active exit driveway. Another vehicle backed up and caused $2500 in body damage to my car, WITH THE VALET STILL IN THE VEHICLE! The BMW dealership manager refused to answer my calls and letters. I followed up with BMW Corporate, and was told that they do not get involved in matters related to their dealerships. Final result......my insurance paid for damages minus my $500 deductible and I will never, ever purchase another BMW.
It would be good to get a follow up on this story. A quick internet search shows that garage keepers liability insurance is offered in Ontario and may be required for business.
I love all these catalytic converter theft stories, reminds me of one of the many reasons I drive an electric vehicle.
@TheEasternQ TwitchTV Hayy how those batteries? Ha Ha
Wow, what a deal! And you get uninvolved taxpayers to pay a large chunk of it's purchase price .
@TheEasternQ TwitchTV Hu:Hu
Batteries are what $20,000-$30,000? And they're designed to be removable.
@@javavillain lol, you must not know much about the oil or motor vehicle industries. Damn government, handing out money to... (checks notes) renewable energy sources. Unfortunately they also bailed out the entire motor vehicle industry a few years back and give the oil companies literal billions in handouts every year, but good on you for begrudging one guy getting a discount on a technology that will help maintain a habitable planet longer.
The dealership is 100% responsible. In this case, if the dealership refuse to pay, sue HIM for the theft.
Note. The dealership is trying to double dip. He got insurance for the theft.
If this happened to me, I'd file it under my insurance and just let them go after the dealership for the money.
The real culprit is the lack of Canadian laws making auto repair facilities responsible for this type of crime. I'm guessing that since this law hasn't been passed by now, it probably never will be. I don't know, but it's possible that there could be some states in the U.S. that also do not have laws to prevent this crime.
Can the Canadian family press charges of theft against the dealer? Wouldn’t they have to provide at least some evidence that they didn’t steal the catalytic converters themselves? The lack of cameras even after prior thefts could be construed as suspicious. An unscrupulous dealership could theoretically rob their own customers and cover it up by the complete lack of any security measures.
I find it really interesting that the dealership (on behalf of hyundai Canada) are happy to say that they are unable to keep your car safe in their hands! Doesn't feel like the best business model?!
That could be a great scam for a dealer. They steal, and make you pay.
It comes down to the insurance the shop had. There are three times of garage keepers cover that cover direct primary, direct secondary and legal liability. Sounds like they had cheaper out for only legal liability coverage…
When I give you a car that has a catalytic converter installed to work on, you return to me a car that has a catalytic converter installed with the work that I ordered complete. Simple as. May as well chargt you with the theft if you refuse.
If your PR statement to your local customers makes national news, you’ve unquestionably done something spectacular.
The dealership can be sued for the damage done to the vehicle.
Plus legal fees!
Chain of Custody, yup.
Depends on the law. Some places and some states, they are not responsible.
Best to request your vehicle be left inside when they are closed until the repairs are complete.
Remember it happened in Canada Not the US!
@@JohnDoe-qz1ql i would have thought Canada laws to protect her
I work as a mechanic for a number of years in Massachusetts... Michigan laws are very. Much the same as Massachusetts when a garage keeper has custody of the vehicle...
We had this happen at the dealership I work at in Tennessee, 20 converters were stolen off new vehicles, 6 stolen from service dept customers vehicles, and 1 employee vehicle for a total of 27!!
Dealership's insurance covered all 100%!
As cheap as cameras are, I would expect insurance companies to require those for coverage in this twenty-first century.
@@GeorgeVCohea-dw7ou we had/have cameras but they shined spotlights on them, have several hidden ones now!!
@@GeorgeVCohea-dw7ou We do not need insurance companies telling companies how to operate. That would make things worse
Too late for that, insurance contacts are full of inane stipulations. Good luck getting fire coverage without smoke detectors!
Actuaries are deserving of every name they were called in school and then some! Their revenge was swift and brutal, but their methods have saved money. Perhaps, the government should have a Dept. of Actuaries. They could singlehandedly take _respectable bureaucrat_ off of the oxymoron list.
@@jackedwards7420
Like with any evidence, best effort may not be enough, and sometimes the criminal element is too clever or extraordinarily lucky.
You have to love the passive voice.
Sounds like the dealership is stealing them to drum up some more business. It would take very little insinuation to get some Canadian authorities interested in investigating the dealership or their technicians for these.
yeah, what dealership dosent have cameras??
we had thefts at dealers I workex at back in 02.
I am thinking that may be a dealership in Burlington.