I listen to many lectures from academics. A lot of speakers talk as though they are not amplified even when they are, and so it becomes an unpleasant experience as they shout and shriek. Even when the information they are conveying is valuable. Mr Hochschild, acknowledging his lack of academic standing, nevertheless gives an intelligent and informed talk, and is extremely clear and concise. And no shrieking.
I wonder if Oliver Law's participation will come up. He is the first black officer to lead causation troops in combat during the Spanish Civil War...an interesting character from Texas.
The recurrent theme of the frente popular was, “we will become the dictatorship of the proletariat”, it does not take a lot of imagination to imagine what would have happened had they succeded.
Manuel diez So a repressive military dictatorship under Franco was the only solution to communist threat? That sounds like poor binary options. Choosing between two ultra collectivist dictatorships where individual liberties don’t matter.
That is like justifying any other form of dictatorship in Germany against the rise of nazism. Simply stupid to put it mildly. The problem with the philofrancoists is not only with history but with logic and ethics, and with the fact of understanding that the Republic did not supported communism, the Republic did not burn down religious convents in 1931, the Republic did not start a revolutionary strike in 1934.
@@jrhamersma3248 It was a poor option of a very polarized and manipulated society, it was inevitable and both sides were rooting for it, one side won against all odds.
The oppinions of the lower classes that are too disfunctional to tackle realities and self-organise is whatever those that organized them decide that it should be ;-) Its the same as with the common woman and trends.
A very interesting and cruel war. Right now I'm reading Isabel Allende's historical novel "A Long Petal of the Sea". I recommend it to anyone interested in this subject.
A spy novel I've read twice and enjoyed is "The Maze of Cadiz" by Aly Monroe, set in Cadiz late in the 2nd World War, at a time Franco is tilting toward the Allies. Also, Rebecca Pawel has written four crime novels set in this era, which present people in their complexity and not as types.
A historian should, implicitly or explicitly, answer three questions: -Who wants what? -What happens if they don't get it? -Why now? The above come from David Mamet! Mr. Hochschild jumps right to Franco initiating a coup which is where the story usually begins, but what Republican policies was Franco coup'ing (love coining this) against and why?
The Spanish Civil War was a breaking point in a century long struggle between the traditional rulers of Spain (the aristocracy, church, and Army) and the people. The Republic was an attempt by moderate liberal reformers to modernise Spain, which was a hopelessly behind and backwards country. This modernisation came at the expense of the ruling class, which accelerated the violent conflicts that had been ongoing since at least 1918. With the victory of the Popular Front in 1936, the Army decided to launch a coup and forcefully remove the leftists from the Government. The people rose up against the Army and foiled the coup, and the Civil War started,
«In mid-June 1936, the growing degeneration of the parliamentary regime in Spain, and the vigor with which two communist and anarchist revolutions were being prepared, unleashed a military uprising that had been in the making for a long time ... A perfect reproduction of the period was manifesting itself in Spain. of Kerensky in Russia ... Neither side that conspired could justly claim legal titles ... Many of the current guarantees in civilized society had been liquidated by the communist infiltration of a decaying parliamentary government. There were attacks on both sides, and the revolutionary pestilence reached such a point that the communists did not hesitate to assassinate their political adversaries in the streets or to bring them out of their beds to put them to death." - Winston Churchill, "The Second World War" Volume I.
False. The yoke and the arrows (the Falange symbol) were taken from the first Spanish royal coat of arms, symbolizing the Catholic Kings, i.e., Ferdinand and Isabella. The letter Y (yugo = yoke) stands for Ysabel of Castile, and the letter F (flechas = arrows) stand for Fernando of Aragon. When these to monarchs married, their realms unified and hence Spain as such was born. Since the Falangistas fought for a unified Spain ("España Una, Grande, Libre") the yoke and arrows became a natural emblem of their program. Later, under Franco, Spain's national coat of arms had both yoke and arrows as part of it, along with the Eagle of Saint John, Queen Isabella's patron saint symbol.
Odd that he sides with the anarchists. Ethel MacDonald, a scottish anarchist travelled to Barcelona and said clearly that they were "not in Spain in support of the Republic. But to establish a revolution of the working class". A much more middle road position is to just say "I support the republic" over say, a military dictatorship. That's a broad-brush statement I think anyone would support.
Really starting to question the sympathy shown to communists in Spain in the decades since the civil war. Orwell lived it and left, and wrote 1984 and Animal Farm with his comrades in Spain in mind.
Yea, but Orwell's bad experiences with that began when Stalin started pulling the same tricks on the Spanish communists that he did on the original communists and their ideals in Russia, ie Trotsky. Orwell was victimized by Stalinism not communism. No I'm no a fan of communism but real communism is a far cry from what Stalin did once he got his hooks into things, he completely perverted it.
@@garrettramirez428Wow, that's completely wrong. Orwell was a lifelong socialist who fought for the Republic. He served and sympathized with the anarchists, and he detested the way the Stalinists repressed the anarchists. But that's a far cry from being glad the fascists won.
Adam, the Spanish Republic was an unstable conglomerate of ideologies: there were progressive and moderate liberals that believed in a republic based on democracy and constitution, but unfortunately the vast majority were anarchists who carried out a systematic repression against religious institutions (public executions, rapes of nouns, fires).This is the reason why so many Spaniards who were deeply catholic felt alienated and supported Franco's upraising. The second most powerful party during the Second Republic were the communists who supported the Republic not because they believed in a democratic republic but as a path to reach the revolution and establish a Socialist Republic in Spain that is why it was not a "paradox as you said in the lecture that Stalin supported the Republic Communist party. He had political interests invested in the conflict exactly like Hitler or Mussolini. And let's not forget the gold that the Republican government sent to Moscow.
@@mybrotherkeeper1484 The morons of the government (Spain has had negligent govern. not matter left or right)sent approx. 510 tones of gold from the Spain National Bank (more than %70 of their reserve) to the Soviet Union at the beginning of the Civil War. The intention was to send all the reserves to a "safe" place. But who in their right mind is so stupid to put all country's gold reserve in hands of Stalin? that explains a little bit how stupid and irrational everything was.
If you really boil it down to basics, this was a war between Catholicism and marxism. Like nearly everyone involved in academia, Mr. Hochschild shows his sympathies for the latter.
🤣 you don't know what you are talking about. Catholics sided with the nationalists, some priests even took part in fighting, o.k. But fascists, who also were on the nationalists side , weren't particularly religious. On the other side there were anarchists, fiercely opposed to the Marxists since Bakunin's times, Marxists that's true, but also groups of the liberal bourgeoisie. ...
To believe there is a, degenerate marxist gene, is extreme right wing. Franco was an integral part of the fascist axis! Franco tryd to distance himself from fascist ideology, only when the outcome of the 2nd world war became obvious. Western allies accepted spains neutrality despite spanish fighting against russian allies in east. Franco was the European fascist the west continued courting long after their fascination with hitler and mussolini had fallen from favour.
A genocide man like Cardenas who's killed it's own people just only for don't recognize the freedom for the people believe on the church IT'S NOT at the right side of the history
Its worth pointing out that the “remarkable social revolution” taking place in Barcelona during 1936 and 1937 referred to by Mr Hochschild resulted, predictably and inevitably, in miles long lines of impoverished people waiting in the hope of a meagre few piece of bread with which to feed their starving children. It also led to brutal atrocities committed against individuals - and their family members - who had the misfortune of having made a success of their lives and were thus branded as “fascists”, and the slaughtering of members of the Catholic clergy by large mobs of feral, almost sub-human psychopaths. All of this driven by ‘politics of envy’. The situation in Barcelona during this period, provides a glimpse of the fate awaiting the whole of Spain and possibly beyond, had Franco not been victorious.
The war started as a result of an attempted Communist coupe (supported by the Soviet Union) against a democratically elected Socialist government. General Franco (who had no intention of restoring democracy) prevented Spain from becoming a Soviet satellite and instead installed a Spanish fascist regime. The conflict escalated out of control by the intervention of Germany (Hitler) and the USSR (Stalin) supplying the competing sides with a terrifying amount of weapons, warplanes, tanks, artillery, (NATO/Russia in Ukraine today). Spain should have been left to settle matters alone without the huge influx of deadly weapons. If the majority of Spaniards wanted Spain to be a Communist country it should have been allowed to become one. Instead the country became a test bed for Hitler and Stalin´s war machines. A truly horrifying disaster - still clouded in propaganda ....
There was no communist coupe, the communists were in the democratic coalition government. Franco and their allies in church fallange and conservative and carlist groups were rebelling against democracy.
It was. Many people just happend to vote for extremists. You can vore for shitty politicans. Unelss there is a military dictaorship off course, then you never get a say.
1:03:46 "I have a lot of sympathy for the Spanish Republic and I wish it had won".. This is because you had the privilege to live in a free country, but let me tell you: I was raised in a communist country, and communism is way worse.
@@danielsotysik2232 I'm Spanish and I know my own story, thank you very much., The republic was socialism, the reforms, parties and laws were all socialism. In fact Russia consented to help but asked to put a few communist in power position, meaning that there wasn't any communist in the govern. Think whatever you want, but the reality is that.
@@Aoli04 and I am history teacher and I can tell you that you talking pure rubbish. Popular front was marriage between communists and socialists led directly by Stalin. You can call them pink unicorns if you wish, but reality is that they followed marxist utopia and were responsible for countless atrocities on their own paceful citizens like nuns and priests. Is that socialism in action or rather bolsheviks calling themselves republicans? Robespierre also called himself republican before he drown Paris in blood, its just words. I dont care about words or party names but about real actions. Read the book or live in lies - its up to you.
Not true: first the communists gained power positions because, as I already told you, that was an imposition from Russia that they have to accept because nobody else was helping, the only lefty political vision that got international support was the communism. Two, the major persecution of nuns and priests were from the anarchist, not communist. Third, the church was allied with the national front, and they were also the allies in the previous dictatorship of Primo de Rivera, and when the war ended lots of them didn't allow the popular front victims to have a proper funeral (the majority of the popular front victims are STILL nowadays in curbs and missing) believe me, the hate for them didn't have to come by external influence. Fifth, national front also killed priests. You are just buying all Franco's lies, mr "history teacher". I'm going to stop answering you, believe whatever rubbish you want.
I will always support the republicans who fought against the fascists who thought democratically elected officials was just too much to tolerate. It's tragic that the republicans lost. The right and their "hero", Franco, destroyed the country for decades.
Franco saved Spain from Stalin. Period. If you think Franco was worse than Stalin, you must support the millions of deaths at the hands of Stalin and Berria in the gulags and otherwise. You must support the murder of 4,000,000 Ukrainians starved to death by Stalin. Franco can't hold a candle to Stalin's reign of terror.
The left rebelled against an elected government in 1934. They showed what they thought of democracy by assassinating the leader of the opposition. That started the war.
This is certainly the broad-brush statement which deserves the most agreement. No caveats. Always support a democratically elected government. What the republic later struggled with, anarchists and communists cannot be blamed on the republic. It might have "centre-lefted" things a lot easier if it wasn't having to fight a right-wing rebellion. The republic quashed an actual communist rebellion in Asturias, with Franco quelling them
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Playoffs Day 3 // DRX vs GEN | PRX vs TLN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CWM1Q-2-o3M/mqdefault.jpg)
I listen to many lectures from academics. A lot of speakers talk as though they are not amplified even when they are, and so it becomes an unpleasant experience as they shout and shriek. Even when the information they are conveying is valuable.
Mr Hochschild, acknowledging his lack of academic standing, nevertheless gives an intelligent and informed talk, and is extremely clear and concise. And no shrieking.
I wonder if Oliver Law's participation will come up. He is the first black officer to lead causation troops in combat during the Spanish Civil War...an interesting character from Texas.
The recurrent theme of the frente popular was, “we will become the dictatorship of the proletariat”, it does not take a lot of imagination to imagine what would have happened had they succeded.
Manuel diez So a repressive military dictatorship under Franco was the only solution to communist threat? That sounds like poor binary options. Choosing between two ultra collectivist dictatorships where individual liberties don’t matter.
That is like justifying any other form of dictatorship in Germany against the rise of nazism. Simply stupid to put it mildly.
The problem with the philofrancoists is not only with history but with logic and ethics, and with the fact of understanding that the Republic did not supported communism, the Republic did not burn down religious convents in 1931, the Republic did not start a revolutionary strike in 1934.
@@jrhamersma3248 It was a poor option of a very polarized and manipulated society, it was inevitable and both sides were rooting for it, one side won against all odds.
The oppinions of the lower classes that are too disfunctional to tackle realities and self-organise is whatever those that organized them decide that it should be ;-) Its the same as with the common woman and trends.
What we have instead is a dictatorship of the oligarchy. Also Trumpism.
This man's modesty belies his brilliance. I will definitely seek out this book.
A very interesting and cruel war. Right now I'm reading Isabel Allende's historical novel "A Long Petal of the Sea". I recommend it to anyone interested in this subject.
A spy novel I've read twice and enjoyed is "The Maze of Cadiz" by Aly Monroe, set in Cadiz late in the 2nd World War, at a time Franco is tilting toward the Allies. Also, Rebecca Pawel has written four crime novels set in this era, which present people in their complexity and not as types.
A historian should, implicitly or explicitly, answer three questions:
-Who wants what?
-What happens if they don't get it?
-Why now?
The above come from David Mamet!
Mr. Hochschild jumps right to Franco initiating a coup which is where the story usually begins, but what Republican policies was Franco coup'ing (love coining this) against and why?
The Spanish Civil War was a breaking point in a century long struggle between the traditional rulers of Spain (the aristocracy, church, and Army) and the people. The Republic was an attempt by moderate liberal reformers to modernise Spain, which was a hopelessly behind and backwards country. This modernisation came at the expense of the ruling class, which accelerated the violent conflicts that had been ongoing since at least 1918. With the victory of the Popular Front in 1936, the Army decided to launch a coup and forcefully remove the leftists from the Government. The people rose up against the Army and foiled the coup, and the Civil War started,
«In mid-June 1936, the growing degeneration of the parliamentary regime in Spain, and the vigor with which two communist and anarchist revolutions were being prepared, unleashed a military uprising that had been in the making for a long time ... A perfect reproduction of the period was manifesting itself in Spain. of Kerensky in Russia ... Neither side that conspired could justly claim legal titles ... Many of the current guarantees in civilized society had been liquidated by the communist infiltration of a decaying parliamentary government. There were attacks on both sides, and the revolutionary pestilence reached such a point that the communists did not hesitate to assassinate their political adversaries in the streets or to bring them out of their beds to put them to death."
- Winston Churchill, "The Second World War" Volume I.
At last a perspective that is not entirely pro-Leftist. I must read Churchill.
A murderer and genocide like Churchill I don't think it's a good resource for information
@@Deus1Vult yes agreed, im reminded of how churchills finest hour, came at such a price for the russian people!
@@rogerdubarry8505 do you know what pro left is? Studied marx or mandela?
@@Deus1VultCope😂
King Leopold's Ghost. A great book
Yrs, horrifying but great. The worst of colonialism.
adam hochschild is one of my heroes
False. The yoke and the arrows (the Falange symbol) were taken from the first Spanish royal coat of arms, symbolizing the Catholic Kings, i.e., Ferdinand and Isabella. The letter Y (yugo = yoke) stands for Ysabel of Castile, and the letter F (flechas = arrows) stand for Fernando of Aragon. When these to monarchs married, their realms unified and hence Spain as such was born. Since the Falangistas fought for a unified Spain ("España Una, Grande, Libre") the yoke and arrows became a natural emblem of their program. Later, under Franco, Spain's national coat of arms had both yoke and arrows as part of it, along with the Eagle of Saint John, Queen Isabella's patron saint symbol.
What he said isn't wrong, he just went back to their meaning that pre dates Ferdinand and Isabella, those symbols weren't invented for them.
Odd that he sides with the anarchists. Ethel MacDonald, a scottish anarchist travelled to Barcelona and said clearly that they were "not in Spain in support of the Republic. But to establish a revolution of the working class". A much more middle road position is to just say "I support the republic" over say, a military dictatorship. That's a broad-brush statement I think anyone would support.
Orwell stand the best and proper source regardless of idiology.
Thx for your efforts sir.
I love how you can see the ideas that went into Animal Farm and 1984 start to take hold when you read the last few chapters of Homage To Catalonia.
Really starting to question the sympathy shown to communists in Spain in the decades since the civil war. Orwell lived it and left, and wrote 1984 and Animal Farm with his comrades in Spain in mind.
Yea, but Orwell's bad experiences with that began when Stalin started pulling the same tricks on the Spanish communists that he did on the original communists and their ideals in Russia, ie Trotsky.
Orwell was victimized by Stalinism not communism.
No I'm no a fan of communism but real communism is a far cry from what Stalin did once he got his hooks into things, he completely perverted it.
Yes, they were his way of celebrating the fascists winning
@@garrettramirez428Wow, that's completely wrong. Orwell was a lifelong socialist who fought for the Republic. He served and sympathized with the anarchists, and he detested the way the Stalinists repressed the anarchists. But that's a far cry from being glad the fascists won.
Adam, the Spanish Republic was an unstable conglomerate of ideologies: there were progressive and moderate liberals that believed in a republic based on democracy and constitution, but unfortunately the vast majority were anarchists who carried out a systematic repression against religious institutions (public executions, rapes of nouns, fires).This is the reason why so many Spaniards who were deeply catholic felt alienated and supported Franco's upraising. The second most powerful party during the Second Republic were the communists who supported the Republic not because they believed in a democratic republic but as a path to reach the revolution and establish a Socialist Republic in Spain that is why it was not a "paradox as you said in the lecture that Stalin supported the Republic Communist party. He had political interests invested in the conflict exactly like Hitler or Mussolini. And let's not forget the gold that the Republican government sent to Moscow.
What gold?
@@mybrotherkeeper1484 The morons of the government (Spain has had negligent govern. not matter left or right)sent approx. 510 tones of gold from the Spain National Bank (more than %70 of their reserve) to the Soviet Union at the beginning of the Civil War. The intention was to send all the reserves to a "safe" place. But who in their right mind is so stupid to put all country's gold reserve in hands of Stalin? that explains a little bit how stupid and irrational everything was.
@@fredd5294 Wow! Nice gift for Stalin.
@@mybrotherkeeper1484 yeah he loved it lol
It was revenge for 1700 years of Christian inquisitions
If you really boil it down to basics, this was a war between Catholicism and marxism. Like nearly everyone involved in academia, Mr. Hochschild shows his sympathies for the latter.
Mostly yes, although the Basques were devout yet supported the republic
🤣 you don't know what you are talking about. Catholics sided with the nationalists, some priests even took part in fighting, o.k. But fascists, who also were on the nationalists side , weren't particularly religious.
On the other side there were anarchists, fiercely opposed to the Marxists since Bakunin's times, Marxists that's true, but also groups of the liberal bourgeoisie. ...
Franco wasn't actually "very right-wing" in 1936. He had been an Monarchist earlier, but by 1936 he had been behaving as an a-political general.
To believe there is a, degenerate marxist gene, is extreme right wing. Franco was an integral part of the fascist axis! Franco tryd to distance himself from fascist ideology, only when the outcome of the 2nd world war became obvious. Western allies accepted spains neutrality despite spanish fighting against russian allies in east. Franco was the European fascist the west continued courting long after their fascination with hitler and mussolini had fallen from favour.
Actually there was another country that supplied the Spanish Republic. Mexico. Cardenas was on the right side of history.
A genocide man like Cardenas who's killed it's own people just only for don't recognize the freedom for the people believe on the church IT'S NOT at the right side of the history
Its worth pointing out that the “remarkable social revolution” taking place in Barcelona during 1936 and 1937 referred to by Mr Hochschild resulted, predictably and inevitably, in miles long lines of impoverished people waiting in the hope of a meagre few piece of bread with which to feed their starving children.
It also led to brutal atrocities committed against individuals - and their family members - who had the misfortune of having made a success of their lives and were thus branded as “fascists”, and the slaughtering of members of the Catholic clergy by large mobs of feral, almost sub-human psychopaths.
All of this driven by ‘politics of envy’.
The situation in Barcelona during this period, provides a glimpse of the fate awaiting the whole of Spain and possibly beyond, had Franco not been victorious.
The war started as a result of an attempted Communist coupe (supported by the Soviet Union) against a democratically elected Socialist government. General Franco (who had no intention of restoring democracy) prevented Spain from becoming a Soviet satellite and instead installed a Spanish fascist regime.
The conflict escalated out of control by the intervention of Germany (Hitler) and the USSR (Stalin) supplying the competing sides with a terrifying amount of weapons, warplanes, tanks, artillery, (NATO/Russia in Ukraine today).
Spain should have been left to settle matters alone without the huge influx of deadly weapons. If the majority of Spaniards wanted Spain to be a Communist country it should have been allowed to become one.
Instead the country became a test bed for Hitler and Stalin´s war machines.
A truly horrifying disaster - still clouded in propaganda ....
There was no communist coupe, the communists were in the democratic coalition government. Franco and their allies in church fallange and conservative and carlist groups were rebelling against democracy.
Communist coup? I thought it was an Anarchist coup? The Anarchists hated the communists.
in 1936 wasnt a democratic republic
Wrong.
Wasn't a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC, they was a pre communist regimen
@@AnEnemy100 Wrong What? You know shit about it, but you correct a Spanish native with solid knowledge. Be humble and Shut the fuck up.
1936 II Republic was illegitimate.
It was. Many people just happend to vote for extremists. You can vore for shitty politicans. Unelss there is a military dictaorship off course, then you never get a say.
1:03:46 "I have a lot of sympathy for the Spanish Republic and I wish it had won".. This is because you had the privilege to live in a free country, but let me tell you: I was raised in a communist country, and communism is way worse.
The republic was socialism, not communism, so I don't get where you coming from?
@@Aoli04 are you joking? Read Warren Carroll's Last Crusade and then get back here with your rubbish.
@@danielsotysik2232 I'm Spanish and I know my own story, thank you very much., The republic was socialism, the reforms, parties and laws were all socialism. In fact Russia consented to help but asked to put a few communist in power position, meaning that there wasn't any communist in the govern. Think whatever you want, but the reality is that.
@@Aoli04 and I am history teacher and I can tell you that you talking pure rubbish. Popular front was marriage between communists and socialists led directly by Stalin. You can call them pink unicorns if you wish, but reality is that they followed marxist utopia and were responsible for countless atrocities on their own paceful citizens like nuns and priests. Is that socialism in action or rather bolsheviks calling themselves republicans? Robespierre also called himself republican before he drown Paris in blood, its just words. I dont care about words or party names but about real actions. Read the book or live in lies - its up to you.
Not true: first the communists gained power positions because, as I already told you, that was an imposition from Russia that they have to accept because nobody else was helping, the only lefty political vision that got international support was the communism. Two, the major persecution of nuns and priests were from the anarchist, not communist. Third, the church was allied with the national front, and they were also the allies in the previous dictatorship of Primo de Rivera, and when the war ended lots of them didn't allow the popular front victims to have a proper funeral (the majority of the popular front victims are STILL nowadays in curbs and missing) believe me, the hate for them didn't have to come by external influence. Fifth, national front also killed priests. You are just buying all Franco's lies, mr "history teacher". I'm going to stop answering you, believe whatever rubbish you want.
I will always support the republicans who fought against the fascists who thought democratically elected officials was just too much to tolerate. It's tragic that the republicans lost. The right and their "hero", Franco, destroyed the country for decades.
Franco saved Spain from Stalin. Period. If you think Franco was worse than Stalin, you must support the millions of deaths at the hands of Stalin and Berria in the gulags and otherwise. You must support the murder of 4,000,000 Ukrainians starved to death by Stalin. Franco can't hold a candle to Stalin's reign of terror.
That's grotesquely wrong. Thanks to Franco we aren't a republic of the urss.
Indeed. Franco just never got around to make that peace hw was forcing upon his enemies. Dictor until his death...
The left rebelled against an elected government in 1934. They showed what they thought of democracy by assassinating the leader of the opposition. That started the war.
This is certainly the broad-brush statement which deserves the most agreement. No caveats. Always support a democratically elected government. What the republic later struggled with, anarchists and communists cannot be blamed on the republic. It might have "centre-lefted" things a lot easier if it wasn't having to fight a right-wing rebellion. The republic quashed an actual communist rebellion in Asturias, with Franco quelling them
But thanks to God he sent us to Franco, VIVA FRANCO!