yea shits low key depressing. I could see a world where this became my all time favorite piece of media. But it's merely in my top 10. If only it got more time to build up the payoffs and stayed more grounded :(
@@daniellambert6590 well a character based show without characters interacting will tend to be less emotionally resonant. I think that's a big reason everyone loved episode seven. We got a lot of heartfelt and candid moments between characters that had kind of been missing
To me, the only flaw in season 2 was pacing. And tbh, if the only bad thing you can say about a show with so many complex and interwoven stories is "yeah, the pacing is a bit off at times", its still a damn incredible show.
I agree, I loved it including the pacing. I think the biggest reason people are 'finding things wrong' with it to make videos is just trying to get attention.
Really well articulated. I think you really hit the nail on the head with Noxus' invasion being an easy resolution to the conflicts between Piltover and Zaun, which had such depth in s1 that I think s2 really missed
This is crazy. The show did not do this. There is clearly still a lot of tension between Piltover and Zain, shown by the tense looks Sevika received from the other council members, Caitlin asks Vi if she is still in this fight. There is obviously more work to be done
@@MideXIII Which means they didn't resolve the main conflict from which the entire show was built on.. The conflict should never have escalated so far beyond the two cities that it consumed the entire finale of the show. And a single, ambiguous look given to Sevika (who didn't get a single line in the entire final act) is not "clearly" showing us anything. We don't even know how or why she ended up in that seat to begin with, because she was completely neglected in the end, and nothing built up toward her being a councilor.. The criticism here isn't "crazy" just because you don't want to acknowledge it. And I get it, I wish S2 could've been perfect too, but.. it wasn't. It's wasted potential, and has many, many glaring flaws that are now attached to the shows name. It's tragic, but magic doesn't exist in real life, so we can't get a do over like Ekko.
@ the conflict between Piltover and Zaun has never actually been the main focus of the show. It’s always been the backdrop to the characters and their relationships with one another. Ask yourself, from season one, was it ever explained why there is even an Undercity? How exactly are they being oppressed by Topside? What freedoms were the citizens of Zaun denied by the people from Piltover? None of this has ever been explicitly stated in the show. There is no easy solution to the conflict between the two cities, if we go by real life parallels of conflicts between two warring nations. For the show to have made up some magic resolution would have been even more contrived. It shows them at least starting a path towards peace even if it might never be truly achieved. What the show did resolve was the character relationships I.e Powder and Vi, Jayce and Victor, Mel and Ambessa etc. if you had a problem with these resolutions that’s fine. I personally did not. Problems like Sevika not having lines in Act 3 are valid, but the show did enough with the visual shorthand, and she obviously got a seat by being one of the central leaders of Zaun, who had just played an integral role in winning the war for Piltover. Season 2 is not as tight as Season 1, but is still great. Wanting it to be perfect is an unfair expectation.
@@MideXIIIThe show was about relationships, but these relationships worked within the conflict of Zaun and Piltover. I think why we're disappointed is because we loved that conflict and looked forward to explore it far more, which they never did because Tech-Jesus took up the whole second half of S2.
I think that's the one big thing I can say I straight-up dislike. It feels like such a 'safe' and cliche way to end things it honestly felt beneath a show like this.
About Jayce not shutting down the Hex gates earlier, he was using the portals to evacuate the city up until the last moment. Ideally, he thought he had more time since they spotted the cocoon (Viktor) outside the city at the time.
This should've been stated during the meeting where they were talking strategy then. Though even that explanation doesn't make sense, because if Viktor reaching the Hexgates means the end of the world, then isn't it more important to shut them down regardless? The stakes are too high at that point.
@@DLxxx technically the hex gate is a launching base. Ships can still come and go just not magically launched if it was gone. Honestly it would make more sense to send them off naturally as they’d still be able to make a safe distance more than likely without magic and deactivate the gate then and there. Due to it being an end of world situation that Jayce knows about as you said involving hextech and wild runes. A lot of people didn’t leave either it seems especially in zaun.
@@DLxxx Jayce did say that they were destined to lose, so he probably didn't believe in their victory too much and wanted to get as many people out of Piltover and Zaun as possible as fast as possible. Plus, via using the hexgates, people would get to their destinations faster and would be able to warn other nations as well probably(Not that they need to, because Viktor is very weak in grand scheme of things and would get taken down instantly if he even tried to move past Piltover).
I felt the exact same way. 6 and 7 were so strong that the breakneck speed and overly ambitious mess that was 8 and 9 even got me feeling bored.... That being said, Arcane at it's worst is still better than a lot of stuff out there.
i felt the opposite. episode 7 felt like fan fiction/filler. i guess it served as a training montage for ekko learning how to do his time travel. 8 and 9 brought us back to the actual plot.
@@nullakjg767to everyone their own, but the tragic love story that never could have been is incredible. The boi who slipped through time had everything in his hand, his post father, his first love that never went crazy and yet he still decided to fight for his lost world. The music, the emotions were just so raw and relatable for me, it was incredible
@@KennyMcGavin That's precisely where I'm at. Could S2 have been as good as S1? Sure, yeah. But not much is as good as S1. S2 for all it's flaws is still better than so, so much that I've seen.
11:19 there is consequence. You can see the robots that surrounded him when he travelled back in time get blasted away, as well as the mini core inside the Z drive go unstable, which allows the explosion when he throws it at viktor. He travelled back to an area where no one important surrounded him, so the only things that are affected by cranking it past 4 seconds are the enemies. It just happens pretty quick so I get that it can be missed.
still dumb, we dont even know how that shi works. Why did it affect heimerdinger after 4 seconds but not ekko or powder. If he goes back like 20 seconds like he did he should be affected in some way regardless of how fast he gets out of range or whatever tf.
@@AidanDonnelly-x9i It's not dumb. Demanding the author explain HOW magic works is an unbelievable request. Especially in a series where the HOW has never once been brought up or mattered. No one demanded to know HOW shimmer worked in S1, When the z-drive is first shown going beyond 4 seconds we see it doesn't affect the user. That's all we need to know. When he goes back 12-13 seconds in the finale it overloads the device. We can also infer since Powder was standing next to Heimer and didn't get touched that yordles are affected differently than humans. No the show doesn't need Ekko to say this the fact that Heimer appeared in the same universe 1000 days ahead of Ekko goes along with this. BUUUT we really don't need to. It's a magic time loop device with consequences for going back farther than 4 seconds. THERE👏ARE.👏SO.👏MANY.👏DEVICES.👏LIKE.👏THIS.👏IN.👏FICTION.👏 And not just fiction but great fiction.
@@Joeda89 lol, no shit. Yordles are affected differently. The time limit was made 4 seconds for stakes. Its not like he tested it out to see how long he could go back before it'd explode humans lol. There were no stakes or consequences to him going back 20 seconds, not that i wanted ekko to die or anything. Its just poor
@@AidanDonnelly-x9i It destroys the z-drive, that's the consequence. His connection to powder, that world, is sacrificed as a consequence. There is so much going on in this scene that getting hung up on this just because you think the magic in the show is all of the sudden bad writing now, when it has always been used like this even in S1(black box engineering with magic as the input).
I completely agree. Season 1 was perfection, season 2 compromised that perfection for a grander scope and emotional highs. I think this story would have fit better into three seasons, but I'm still eternally grateful that season 2 exists. The complete series is still a masterpiece, flaws and all.
Agree. It could've been absolutely a masterpiece if given the time and money, but sadly this show, even aside from the cost factor, takes A LOT. The show runner gave an estimate, each animator can produce like 4 seconds of animation per week. Fortiche has ~300 people currently. It just takes so much time to do one episode, much less a season. This is why the writers rely on "show don't tell" so much, they HAVE to, because they need to squeeze every single second dry. I think this is ultimately what hurts S2 a lot as well, as they rely on that too heavily and it results in a lot of people just not understanding some important plot points like Ekko's Z-drive and how it works. Even though we're shown how it should work with Heimer exploding, a lot of people don't understand that the Z-drive explodes the radius around the user if you crank it up too high. This was another "show don't tell" moment, however a lot of people just missed/don't understand it. S2 has MANY instances of this. All I wish is for Fortiche to get more animators for their next series, because god damn. If they can resolve the time issue with extra labor, then the writers can go wild and not have to cut so much content. For an example, the last ep was originally meant to be ~1 hr 30 mins long, but it was cut because Fortiche's director just straight up said it was impossible. It just wouldn't fit in the timeline, so they had to keep cutting content until they reached a feasible timeline. Some of this content includes things like Ekko and Jinx's interactions, actually showing how he talks her down.
@@aveshlutchman8573 It still has not been confirmed that we are getting another animated show from Fortiche. We know that there is a “show in the works,” but we also know that Riot bought a live action script. It is ENTIRELY possible that the live action IS the “show in the works.” Fortiche said they were looking into more “projects” with Riot, which is far more likely to involve an animated movie than a show. A movie, which can get the box office money that a show does not get.
As someone who absolutely loved season two and didn't understand people's complaints about pacing, I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on the finale. It feels like the writers wanted a big finale and the biggest thing they could come up with was a big war and the "Night King"esque, world-ending threat of Viktor. To me that would make a lot more sence for a series focused around Noxus than around Piltover and Zaun. Before, Arcane allways tried to tell smaller, more personal stories. It was centred around its characters and their complex emotions, relationships and conflicts, which is something the last episode completely abandons. One example that I find shows this perfectly is the fact that Vi and Caitlyn have two interactions over the course of the episode: One at the beginning of the episode and one in the final scene. Their relationship, after being established one episode earlier, becomes completely irrelevant to the plot. I have similar feelings about Mel's character. She discusses with Jace, that she doesn't want to only be defined by her magic, now that it has been awakened. But everything that made her character interesting before, namely her diplomatic talents and strong leadership, don't even come up and instead she only acts as a mage for the whole time she is present. Furthermore, Jinx's whole story arc isn't even concluded. I found it extremely fascinating how they told her redemption arc after establishing her as almost completely irredeemable at the end of season one. Meeting Isha forces her to take on responsibility and (at least how I interpreted it) helps her understand both her father figures and sister better. And it created the new conflict of Jinx becoming a symbol while she wants to leave the part of herself that is Jinx behind. Isha's death could have mobilised her to (maybe with the help of Ekko, which could have created great parallels to episode 7) finally become that, to "build something" (a reoccuring theme in her story arc throughout season two) and maybe even play a part in uniting the upper and lower city. Even if you wanted a great spectacle for the last episode, the Idea for a civil war/revolution is right there since the beginning of the series! Its resolution would make for a fitting narative conclusion to the whole story and it would be a great setting to conclude the story arcs of the individual characters. All that being said, Arcane's beauty and accomplishments in animation are undeniable and it is still a big contender for my favorite series of all time.
There were a lot of scenes that I feel were missing. For instance, Vi's input on Isha's sacrifice knowing Jinx was close to her. Mel's reaction to Jayce disappearing for good, and the aftermath whether she mourned or not. Sevika having gaining the trust of the Chem-Barons. I noticed that too many events just occurred offscreen.
Yes! similarly to House of the Dragon season 2, you couldn't predict that a character would mourn another or react to something happening like you could in their respective season 1s. The plots for each were far too broad
I would also note that this tonal shift is also a thematic shift, which is sad because I thought episode 7 really leaned into the previously set up themes. The show shifted from being about the conflict of two cities to having a Wheel of Time-esque finally. Thematically, the ending on its own wasn't bad, it just wasn't set up to be what it was. Essentially, the final themes were set up almost entirely in a single monologue given by Viktor at the end of Act 2.
this was my exact feeling. the themes of Piltover/Zaun that were foundational to s1 are glossed over for new themes in the final episode about the pursuit of perfection. It’s not bad, it’s just not at all thematically cohesive in the way s1 was. And the themes and complex systemic conflicts that s1 was build on and explored so intricately were reduce to “we gotta team up to stop a common end of the world threat” As Jayce said in ep8 when asking the people he as oppressed to fight along side him, “this isn’t a fight for ideals or territory” which is precisely how the finale lost me thematically.
"we were given no insight into why caitlyn betrays ambessa" I just fundamentally disagree. In episode 4 it is literally explicitly said that they don't trust eachother, and Caitlyn explicitly questions their methods. We have Caitlyn express doubts to Maddie, too. We have a whole sequence about Cailyn seeing what it's like when you do horrible things and then justify it with love, and you can see her realization of where that can lead. And then she is obviously confronted with the fact of what Vi is trying to do. And having just lost her mom, OBVIOUSLY she will not stay on the side, that is working to stop Vi from saving her dad. She knows what it would mean if she had the chance to bring her mom back I think we got plenty of insight, just more subtle ones. But they were there
I agree with this take. We can argue about if cait would feel more concise if they had an actual dictator arc in act 2. With the setup at the end of act 1 it feels like a tool to separate Vi and cait.
I see a lot of people who seem to be enraged at Cait, or just think she's a bit underwritten. But I think we were meant to wonder which side she was on. That way, her siding with Vi in ep6 would have genuine tension, and be a surprise.
What about the whole Ass caitlyn rise to power in the episode 3? It really felt half assed after all that build up from ambessa. caitlyn leaving vi, her sleeping with maddie. Then somehow she immediatly disagree with ambessa a minute into the episode. then somehow it goes back again from her training arc with ambessa. All of that then getting lovestruck by seeing vi Once. It really felt convenient from me. I just wished we have more time like 4-10 minutes of dialogue from caitlyn. speaking out what she really feels, but yeah thats just my side of things
@@leifmochi5082 What do you mean "whole ass caitlyn rise to power?" You mean the 30seconds we get of Caitlyn pressing her hand to her chest? Which is then COMPLETELY questioned by her conversation with Maddie in the VERY next scene in Episode 4? What do you think happened between those two scenes? You don't have to wonder, because the scene with Maddie tells us where Caitlyn's headspace is. And beside her obsession with Jinx, she is not at all in line with Ambessa. Never has been.
@@leifmochi5082 "after all that build up from ambessa" what buildup exactly? from the very scene at the end of episode 3, it was made pretty obvious that ambessa wants her as a puppet, exploiting her grief to be able to manipulate her into doing what she wants not at any point in that arc was it suggested that cait is fully bought in, full dictator etc. "then somehow she immediatly disagree with ambessa a minute into the episode" why wouldn't she? we have literally no reason to think that cait suddenly turned bloodthirsty and a full-on fascist. her relationship with ambessa is always shown as an untrusting, uneasy alliance due to a momentary shared goal "then somehow it goes back again from her training arc with ambessa" one training scene is not an "arc". cait says the doesn't trust ambessa, and says she isn't fully onboard with the approach, but at the same time she also says in episode 4 that she has learned from her - that is what the training is about. cait clearly sees some things worth learning in ambessa, that doesn't mean she suddenly fully trusts her though. none of these actions are contradictory "All of that then getting lovestruck by seeing vi Once" she quite obviously never stopped caring for vi. in episode 3 when she leaves her, you can see her facial expression soften into regretful before she turns away from vi - she does not hate vi, but vi being next to her makes her more conflicted about her goals, and that extra conflict is something she cant handle alongside everything else, so she just gets rid of the situation that causes that internal conflict. doesn't mean she no longer cares for vi - especially when, like i said, she finds out that vi is trying to save vander. it's sort of the final straw in a long chain of small moments that were chipping away at her alliance with ambessa
My problem with S2 is that I was never quite clear on what each character wanted. There was no real conflict (hence, the pacing) because there was no contrary purposes, which is exactly what S1 did so incredibly well. I mean, Jayce flattened someone with his hammer *while their backs were turned*, and for what? Vi goes from "I have no sister" to "let's work on our issues" and it's just so... meh. Same for every character: I never knew what they wanted. Espeeecially the Medardas.
Yeah.. another example that bothered me is Sevika helping Jinx at the end of Act 1. I get that Sevika probably wanted to strike back at the enforcers unleashing the grey in Zaun, but we should've gotten that communicated to us in some way. Or why Isha followed Jinx despite her being an insane terrorist who killed multiple people in front of her, was wanted by everyone, and spouted off a bunch of insane ramblings. A little bit of context for her could've gone a long way.
@@DLxxx My best guess is this: Sevika and Jinx had enough time away from each other and met back up under pretty good circumstances, and with Jinx also being incredibly loyal to Silco, Sevika thought that she'd be the best fit to follow as she doesn't focus on petty turf wars. As for Isha, she probably followed Jinx because she killed those three men to save her. She's also a l'il kid who doesn't make the best decisions.
Basically wholeheartedly agree. I watched the finale and enjoyed it, but I was also disappointed. The more I sit back to think about all it could have been, the more disappointed I am. That said, I must ekko your sentiment that it was still very much worth watching and that I would recommend it without hesitation.
To explain my feelings for Arcane S2, I need to use a metaphor. Arcane S1 is a perfectly tailored blouse that’s been freshly pressed from the cleaners. Arcane S2 is also a beautiful blouse, but it still has wrinkles that need ironing out.
S2 is a blouse designed for a giant spider with a beautiful embroidery but made to be wear by a human. A total mess that even a child can understand were it went wrong, impossible to comprehend how it got approved, but damn that art in the middle is beautiful. If only a drop of effort was put on the themes and plot to accompany that art and animation... if only.
Im 5 minutes in but i think youre explaining exactly what i have been feeling. I absolutely LOVED s1. It became my favourite show. And s2 is epic, fast, interesting, still captivating but it fullfills sth different than s1. And i think because of what you said in the first 5 minutes of the video i understood how i felt about s2. I was confused after it like…. Why did i not love it the same wat i did s1? And you explained it very well
the finale was way better than I expected it to be based on the first two acts. I still think it's insane that Viktor was absent for most of the beginning of the season only to become the most important character. The worst is how rushed the Warwick plotline was. It had no emotional weight to it, which is insane because of how important Vander was in season 1.
I'll never forgive them for turning Vi vs Warwick into an unimpactful slide show. That was one of the most anticipated fights of the entire series, built up as far back as their interactions in LoL, and yet they did nothing with it. Instead, _Jinx_ was the one who got the fully animated fight of that Act, despite us seeing nothing of their relationship in the whole series (even if we can infer they obviously loved each other).
I mean, this is obviously opinion, then. Or maybe you were multitasking during watching it, and not giving it your full undivided attention that art like this demands.
I've watched a TON of videos and read dozens of reviews and comments regarding Arcane S2 since the finale aired; this is by far the BEST and most HONEST take of the season and series as a whole. You did an OUTSTANDING job breaking down exactly why you had problems with the second season, and why you enjoyed it even though it was disappointing. Echoed my thoughts exactly. Bravo sir. I ended my IMDb review similarly, talking about what could've been. And my final line was my twist on the Victor quote from S1: The creators lost themselves, lost their dream. In their pursuit of great, they failed to do good. And unfortunately they can't make it right.
Yeah.. What could've been. Great song. Exactly my thoughts on this season. Its like we've seen almost masterpiece from people who are truly capable of making it the masterpiece. But something got on they way. And there is no coming back... Maybe next series will be even better? Its never too late to build something new, another great thought from arcane.
Your visual essays are incredible - thanks for putting words to what so many of us are feeling. There was so much plot jammed in this season, with so much left to implication, that it felt like the characters were being smothered by the writing. But, at the same time, it was that chaos and overwhelming story telling that made the really beautiful moments that much more precious and special. In the moments the characters didn't feel like storytelling tools, they felt so real and alive, that I personally felt more invested than ever before - but only in those moments.
My problems with S2 essentially boil down to rushed pacing & then dropping the ball on Violet & Caitlyn’s characters. I was satisfied with pretty much everything else
You're right in the money with this. The characters started to be pawns to move the story along vs. season 1's intense focus on the character's decisions and how they shaped the world around them.
The pacing of the last season, especially the last few episodes, was really jarring. I think Arcane should have been at least three seasons so that they could focus on the characters more. Maybe spend the second season fleshing out the lead-up to the war and the third focussing exclusively on the war so that we could get more time with the characters and their conflicts.
Pey and I resonate on a spiritual level, I had so many of the same thoughts, it almost got too ridiculous towards the end, I even said after the last trailer the plot really diverged to "let's team up and fight the real bad guy and be friends after" type ending, ep 7 was incredible tho, and obviously great animation and visual direction, not the biggest fan of the soundtrack, I prefer unique osts which I can easily recognize by a shared melody, still a good show
Okay so yeah I have some thoughts on this! When watching the second season with my girlfriend, she voiced a similar opinion to your own. The second season is losing its grounded intimate storytelling that made the first season special. For me I was like: “Well yeah, season 1 and 2 have very different missions in mind.” Season 1 was all about the set up, getting us introduced to the characters and worldbuilding and how they all act in tandem with eachother via conflict. It’s the build up to a grand finale, but has the legwork of making us care about these characters first. Season 2 is the payoff of that promise; the war. In most war stories, you typically just don’t have time to still be grounded and intimate. We are of higher scale where the Arcane is growing unstable and the war between the twin cities have reached its ultimate climax. We are naturally at higher stakes. But after the finale, I think I understood where my girlfriend and others were coming from. People enjoyed Arcane because despite its grand worldbuilding and magics, it was still boldly and even uncomfortably human most of the time. It was a story about all morally grey people who struggled with mental illness, disabilities, traumas, oppression, and the toxic ambition to uproot a dream that may cause more harm than good. And it handled all of these themes and concepts with care and sincerity. So to have the big final showdown be Piltover and Zaun, the oppressors and the oppressed, coming together to fight a common foe which are just… emotionless robots… likely wasn’t a good idea. It did feel very stereotypical superhero movie ending, stripped of all its nuance and individual character. All that said, though, I can’t say I hated Arcane’s ending. I think there’s something to be said about beauty in imperfections, and how the only reason we’re all having this discourse? Is because we all love Arcane.
It's unfortunate that Arcane didn't meet your expectations. However I do find it poetic that the expectations we expected the show to meet mirrors life in the way us as human beings place expectations on people, role models, celebrities etc. While they may be fantastic in their own right, one way or the other they end us letting them down just purely because they are filled with imperfections. For me while I agree that Arcane had many flaws, it's execution in everything else surpasses many other pieces of art that it feels like a disservice to even call it dissapointing. Very good video❤❤I've been waiting for your opinion since the Act 3 dropped and you didn't dissapoint. ❤
I think the the last act was genius. And I think a lot of these "it failed" videos won't really age well once the incredibly layered and nuanced themes that the final act displayed so well are discussed and accepted. I just find it funny that videos like this exist and then someone like schnee will dig so deep into the roots of this show and make content creators like this look like infants.
@@lockekappa500bro, themes are important and great to talk about but is the way themes are delivered less important than that? the finale was rushed and it is not perfect, we can't just excuse a bad execution because the themes are good.
@@namsinh5492 I think bad execution and rushed are two different things. I actually think for what they went for, the finale was incredibly well executed, because it managed to tie a million loose threads up. And I'll never disagree that the finale wasn't rushed, or that we didn't get some vital scenes that were necessary in Act 3 (ISHA!!?!?!?!?!) But in the same breath almost everything I wanted to happen, happened. Both character arc wise and thematically. If anything I got WAY more than I asked for with the Viktor/Jayce situation.
@@namsinh5492 Well put, may be misremembering but I remember a video criticising the second half of Code Geass on how it sticked to its themes too much to the detriment of the plot, if you have not already seen it would be intresting watch
"There is beauty in imperfections" Sums up my feelings for Season 2. If we got more content and the pace wasn't breakneck, it would've been near flawless. But I also heavily appreciate what we got and still love it
I feel a bit vindicated because I was wondering if I was dumb. The back and forth with Jase and Victor had me thinking i wasn't paying attention. I just kept asking why. Why did Victor embrace what he said should have been destroyed? Why did Jase react so violently and other than isolation what was the cause of his personality shift? Did they ever explain what the Arcane was? And yea...the war, they had to stop it but why? And black rose? I can assume some things but A LOT was introduced with no time to flesh it out. At least 2 more episodes could have worked it out. I still loved it tho! 3 years of waiting was worth it.
The show should have been about Piltover and Zaun, Jinx, Vi and Caitlin. The show is called arcane, but the storyline about arcane was by far the worst part of it, but in the end took over the story.
"Why did Victor embrace what he said should have been destroyed?" - Because immediately as he wakes up Jayce says it saved him, he sees Jayce's weapons blueprints and leaves him thinking he alone can do what they've always wanted: Give to the people something that saves. He checks and "is proven right" on the poor Huck of the underground, but only tapping into Jayce's future mind he sees where it lands... "Why did Jayce react so violently" - Because he just experienced a violent near death event coupled with absolute understanding that whatever Viktor does right now is of apocalyptic danger and not only Viktor himself wanted him to act, he said "in all timelines and all possibilities *only* you can". Idk, to me all that is enough to act not the most sane way possible.
@@thijmstickman8349 I thought I was the only one who found the arcane flat and low-key annoying 😭. Probably because it felt gatekept in-universe to just Jayce, Viktor, Heimerdinger, Ekko at a later point and sometimes Mel. I just really wonder why characters like Vi have little to no basic knowledge about it except 'blue magic energy crystals'. Idk, Caitlyn probably did but at least we could've gotten scenes with the more fighting inclined characters actually learning about the science/magic stuff. It's interesting when characters step out of their spaces (e.g the Jayce and Vi fight scene from s1 which rocked). Would have also loved a Jayce and Jinx interaction.
I've just finished arcane today and find it interesting, that you brought up the topic of emotional manipulation. Because while watching the last episode, I thought to myself "Yeah, I can only be emotionally manipulated so much". At some characters death I just stopped caring and started skipping through the rest of the episode, because I wanted to be done. It is still a great series, but season 2 finale is the kind of marvel spectacle that I have seen 100 times over. The character drama from season 1 finale is something truly special though.
I feel so validated with this video. I had so many questions with the plot and characters that I ended up just being sad (or probably disappointed) as I reach the final episode. It’s also reassuring to hear someone say that they have so many ideas squeezed into short series. Still love Arcane tho. Thanks for the video! ♥️
I’d still recommend this show to anyone who values my opinion it’s likely they’ll love it. While some may feel disappointed by its missed potential myself included, they’re far fewer than those praising it as a flawless masterpiece. I was more drawn to the character drama than the beautiful spectacle of the finale. The final war felt like all the buildup of "Winter is coming," for few minutes followed by the next scene, "Oh, Winter's here."
I think I came from a place where I knew that this being a show made by riot😢 with the universe it's based on, I never allowed myself to grow too big expectations. Named character death were not even something I could fathom, not more than 1 or 2 at most. I always had in the back of my mind (this is a promotional show for an already well established game with tons of fans) so for me, it far exceeds my expectations. No, it breaks through them rocketing far beyond them. This, for me, is such a gem of a show. (For anyone wondering, no, I've never been a league player)
Let me start by saying: I really enjoy your essays and hope you keep doing what you do. You are one of the channels I watch every video, the moment they release. Now to your take. Although I can agree with some of your criticism like with Maddies or Caitlins decisions not being set up well. I do think it's still one of the best, if not the best show i've ever seen. For me the shift from character to plot driven storytelling was necessary, because you cant keep exploring the characters and the world forever, at some point you have to tackle the conflicts in a story, which they did. I think one or two episodes more would have helped to set up all storylines better, but with the time constraints they had, they did a fantastic job. The components that were disappointing to you, you claim are examples of "failed characterwriting, poor pacing and tonal betrayal." That's harsh, considering the high level of the show. And yes, the expectations were insurmountable but by those standards you set for the show, even though at it's peak they are flawless, absolutly no series/movie will ever reach a satisfying level. And i'd argue that the peaks are only as high because there are moments that pale in comparison. Even though I think the ending wasn't perfect, I do think it's a forgiving ending where most people are fine with its conclusion. The argument that nothing has consequence is a bit shallow. If I were to compare any other show with a moderate amount of action in it, no character would survive anything. Thats just how fights and action is written. I think it's fair, that some poeple dont like the route they took for some of the characters or the story, but no one can argue that it didnt deliver on quality. The execution of the show is on such a high level that no other show I've seen can compare. There is so much more to say about this show, but in the end I'd say it's a flawed masterpiece. And i leave you with the cheesy sentence: I dont cry because it's over, I smile because it happend.
What I found funny was that almost never in the entire final episode was I even worried about the battle that was happening. The battle was just a vehicle to express and finish the character arcs that we had going on. And I really don't understand how someone who spent all of their time with these characters could be interested in anything but the character moments and themes. The battle was the shiny object to keep the masses entertained. The rest of us were there for everything else.
honestly after episodes 5 & 6 of act 2 i was so disconnected from what was happening in the last act ,those two episodes are the only two that got me genuinely emotional the rest of the time i felt nothing.
i've been realy conflicted with Arcane as a series after finishing season 2. i was so attached and then disappointed by the ending that it bothered me too much I tried to not think about Arcane at all. But when you said it's a story that talks abt how there is beauty in flaws and the story itself is flawed and still beautiful, i think i'm starting to be okay with it. It was still so so good except up until the ending and the writers really must have done their best. Although it really makes me wonder if they were actually expecting a season 3 since I feel the pacing only suddenly fell off on the last 2 episodes. Maybe they might have been cancelled for season 3 at the last minute n had to wrap it all up asap? Aaarghh
I agree with your conclusion. I’m not as disappointed, but I see the flaws but also agree that it’s still a great story regardless. Beauty in imperfections. And I think it speaks to how the creators probably knew they were rushing it but also knew they only had so much budget. In limiting themselves, they developed creative montages like the Zaun/Piltover “Paint the Town” music video. It tells a concise, efficient story of what happens. And it repeats that many times throughout the season. In a perfect world, we would’ve had another act that helped flush everything out more. But we live in a reality with constraints and budgets (even with a $250M budget) that we saw them put onto the screen but we can also acknowledge would’ve costed more for a whole 3 more episodes (imagine 9 more episodes like some people are saying it needed a whole other season). Sadly, not possible, but likely a lesson to learn for future seasons. But at least we can agree that despite the imperfections, it was still beautiful.
i love movies and tv and stories in general but to be honest i never truly feel the emotions of the characters no matter how well its executed. episode 7's dance sequence was probably the most emotion ive ever felt for a character in a story, and its definitely one of those episodes of tv that i will praise for a long time
It actually hurts to see something that was evidently made with so much love and attention to detail get so many think pieces about how it wasn’t actually great. We need to encourage art like this and the artists that made it.
@@MideXIII Fans are criticizing S2 BECAUSE they love the show so much. Most people wouldn't bother putting that much effort into critiquing art if they didn't think that art was a positive force in the world. It's not sad to criticize something you wished was better, its necessary in order to learn from those mistakes and help writers improve their own work.
@@MideXIIIidk if u watched the video but. He states that we are able to put expectations on season 2 and be disappointed because at its peak(personally season1) it was very well made.
@@jacobvang7905 so was season 2. The video had little valid criticisms, but was filled nitpicks that if actually happened on the show would be wildly narratively unsatisfying. Imagine Vi, Jinx, and Ekko actually dying from the blimp crash??? What kind of complaint is that. Arcane Season 2 operated on a level not many works of art have ever operated on. Why not make videos highlighting the positives instead of dragging on about minute flaws that do not take away from the story, that’s what CinemaSins is for.
@@MideXIII I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m not saying season 2 was horrible at all, if anything it had so many well made things that I loved. Furthermore, the video explains that characters are given heavy plot armor in which big things that happen(like the helicopter/air-balloon crash you mentioned) feel insignificant because they barely affect the character when they are implied to have a effect on the character.(another example being Ekko, pushing the time control limits) And about ur perspective that we should appreciate it because of the amount of work, dedication, and money went into it. I agree, however, I believe that it is just as good if not more important to an extent to focus on its flaws. I could talk about Arcane’s perfections all day, but what I’m more interested in is how Arcane could have been more. Additionally, through arcane’s messy aspects, I can appreciate its clean and near perfect aspects. That is why I said I enjoyed season 1 more, because I feel some aspects are better shown and represented. However, again, it is not to say season 2 did a bad job. I just think season 1 did a better job at portraying it and executing it. To be more specific, the large and unsettling differences and difficulties between zaun and Piltover. People from each city had very significant experiences and ways of thinking that differ. This can very easily shown in season 1. Sorry for the long message, but I’m pretty sure u thought I was hating on arcane season 2.
You’re the first to give constructive criticism and although I don’t agree with every single point… you really articulated yourself professionally and delivered fantastic points
The worst for me is to let the viewer think that Jinx died after saving her from suicide. Wtf were they thinking, it was so unsatisfaying especially with the classic 'characters hanging from the cliff' trope. We should have the clear confirmation that Jinx is alive in the ship as a last shot for the season, on her way to new adventures.
Beautifil video, I couldn't agree more. Episode 7 was abolutely amazing! And the S2 finale with its big good vs evil fight was such a stark contrast to the S1 finale with its tea party...
For me.... The pacing was fine for me. Arcane season 2 builds on sn1 without handholding you, no filler, no fluff, no over-simplification, no over repetitively *FORCED* toddler-ish "comedy" and no spoon feeding while encouraging deductive participation from the audience/ viewers to follow the plot complimented by an ABSOLUTE BANGER of hyper-cinematic induction all culminating to higher immersive experience. There are many online still scratching their head about how or why Silco and Vander became buddies again in the alternate timeline yet they COMPLETELY forgot about the LETTER from Vance addressed to Silco IN SEASON 1 which Silco never read in the main timeline so it becomes BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that he read the letter and "found the will to forgive" in the alternate timeline. Brilliant compact and impactful writing. But instead many are demanding to be spoon-fed. The only main issue for me (personal bias) is the finale should have been longer and bigger battle filled will much more multiple character moments AND we should have SEEN how Ekko united Zaun after saving Jinx including seeing Jinx make a new arm for Sevika. Also we never got to know WHO the other leading families of Piltover are but i am okay and content with what we got on screen. Especially considering how INSANELY EXPENSIVE the budget was (Arcane sn1+2 budget= $250m, most expensive animation ever) so it's understandable how and why they made the writing tight and compact while giving the audience some participatory deduction and generate interest to research into the lore. What they delivered is still very peak in my opinion. We all wanted more eps but there is cost-benefit situation with that. Perhaps in future projects they could make each ep 10mins longer from 40mins-50mins then the final can be like 1hr. This can be a perfect middle ground to give more time to more avenues of the plot without adding more full eps. It might cost a little more but still significantly LESS than making additional FULL eps. Either way, both Arcane sn1+2 have been incredibly amazing. Both get at LEAST 9/10 rating from me irrespective of whatever flaws each season has.
@AdorianDelmore Dang... Good to know. Perhaps we can campaign for an extended director's edition. But i think they shortened it due to budget costs because it was already excessively expensive.
so while discussing s2 writing decissions online i've stumbled upon a lot of of people defending the plot and arguing in favour of the show's writing, including the comment sections. I myself am definitely on the more critical side but i get that everyone has a different opinion on how to a scene is read. The thing that has bothering me is how many of these "ambiguous lectures" the show allows. Allow me to elaborate: there are many many examples this season of things that happened which are kind of contrived but "works" if you are willing to make a certain read. Maddie's betrayal, Caitlyn decision to leave ambessa, Viktor's turn to the dark side, jinx's whole idea to leave, etc, etc. These are big character moments, pivotal in how it they act forward and impacts the plot but many of these moments can only make sense to the viewer if it remembers a vague passing line or retroactively interpret past events as signs of a change coming. It gives a plausible explanation, yes, but for such important moments, it feels unearned and even a little lazy, because it puts the weight of making sense of the story in the audience instead of the events showed. For a show that relies or at least relied so heavily on character-focused storytelling it's not good if your character development comes in breadcrumbs, even if all the arguments are correct and is the most amazing arc ever. imagine if in avatar we get the moment when zuko reunites with iroh and it cuts after they look at each other and before zuko ask for forgiveness
This! It's so easy to dismiss criticism of vague storytelling because anyone can just say _"well it works if you read this specific subtext into it and make these specific assumptions."_ But the fact that SO MUCH of the story leaves things to subtext, and doesn't properly focus on key developments (to the point that many people were rightfully confused on what characters knew about in any given scene, and why they do what they do [beyond what get in breif montages]) creates issues with clarity. There are some things you just have to spend time explicitly building up in order for it to feel earned. _"They didn't forget the conflict between Piltover. Didn't you see the look those people gave Sevika in the end?!"_ Yes.. And that tells us literally nothing, lol. We have no idea how Sevika even got into that seat (she must have been supported by some important topsiders to make it happen), and we have no idea what anyone else eon the council really thinks of her. It's too ambiguous, and it doesn't help that the story neglected to even give dialogue in Act 3, let alone a story that led to her getting a seat at the table. And I love Sevika! This goes beyond the story "respecting their audiences ability to read into the subtext." They fundamentally don't explore several developments enough for them to feel cohesive and earned. I doubt anyone can give me a believable answer as to what Jinx's actual big plan was in Act 1, beyond killing her sister. Was she intending to die herself? Was the smoke supposed to celebrate her victory? Why did she bring Sevika and Isha along? Did she not have any contingency plans? Is that why she teamed up with Sevika there? We don't know.. Which makes it hard to tell where precisely Jinx's mind was at that point.
S2 is a mess plot and themes wise, there is no defending it. No matter how amazing the art and animation is or how good ep7 turned out to be. In a piece of media, theme is paramount and S2... forgot about that.
You hit the nail on the head. So much of this show's subplots feature a little bit of setup that gives you an idea of where they might go, and maybe it's touched upon in bits later on (but never enough to feel like true development), and then there's a big dramatic payoff that simply isn't earned because of the lack of development. It's not that viewers "can't read between the lines"; we get the point of these subplots, but much of the show's development for them is done off-screen, forcing the viewer to do the heavy-lifting and invent their own head-canon (rather than the show taking its time to expand on said subplot/idea), which is just so infuriating. As a result, when people say that the pacing is their "only" flaw with S2, yeah that might be true, but it's not a small one by any means, and it can ruin a show to some extent because of how it impacts the characters/story. If you need any proof of this, look to Game of Thrones Season 8, which is obviously far worse than Arcane S2, but in the same way, it was rushed and half-baked, thus exemplifying poor writing, feeling dissatisfying by the end.
Amazing video. I think it's my favorite one so far. It really is disappointing, because it feels like with just a little more editing, this could have been another near flawless show.
You cooked with this one, Pey. Your thoughts were well spoken and honest. Which in turn resonated with me. I love Arcane and I enjoyed season 2. But I align completely with your critiques of season 2. This video had a real feel to it. Didn't feel combative or argumentive. Just true expression.
I think everyone’s problem with the final isn’t so much that it was bad by any means, but that it so clearly could have been flawless. Somehow through it’s pacing issues the second season in my eyes is still a 10/10 must watch, but when it had the potential to break the scale & ascend to the potential best show ever with just another 2 or 3 episodes, it’s hard not to be disappointed.
This is exactly how people feel. It's not quite disappointment but an intense longing to see true perfection because it felt so close. Unfortunately its hard to know if this was truly ever achievable. Christian has been open that they personally felt they had already spent too long on the show and there was a lot of burnout. I respect their decision to cut things just short of perfection.
@@mickevans6205 But wouldn't creating the perfect show be worth spending a couple more years on it? A masterpiece is a masterpiece forever. Having the literal best animated series of all time as part of your legacy is something you will benefit from for the rest of your life, and something the storytellers all around the world would benefit from endlessly as well. Plus, they could've taken breaks or brought in some fresh writers to help with the workload. There are plenty of ways to work through burnout.
@@DLxxx I agree and I think it would be so cool if they did an extended cut for just this. But I also think they still made the right call all things considered. Most people don't share our view and just want content. Riot also needs their teams to move onto new content or the won't get to make more shows because they won't be profitable. Also I think they were very proud of what they had made and it's hard to know what perfection really is. At some point you have to say good enough and trust in what you've made.
Something about my feelings during the second season didn’t compare to how I felt watching the first. I loved it and it had so many amazing moments, but I think there was a lot to live up to and it just missed the mark in a lot of ways. It was hard for me to articulate a lot about how I felt, or why I felt that way, and this video did such an amazing job of saying all that out loud. Awesome video!
The thing with caitlyn turning on ambessa could also just be cait using her position to get what she wants, and not actually being fully fooled by ambessa. Caitlyn is a very smart person, and she can be very charismatic and is generally good under pressure, so she might have been more aware of what ambessa was doing and planning. Obviously she didn’t know she’d find Vi down there, but she had most likely planned on betraying ambessa at one point. Like I don’t think she was completely under her control, we can kinda see this in how she doesn’t want to directly attack the undercity. I like the idea that they were both playing each other a bit, just unsure of who pulled which strings
First season made more sense from a storyline and storytelling perspective. Prehaps. It was more than just a challenge. Ot was creative process and direction that didn't allow real Ideas to go circular and grow or come full circle. That always happens in stories.
personally, i feel like the first act still felt right like the first season was. grounded, but elevated stakes, the characters' emotional journeys were still front and center. episode 3 had an AMAZING climax, it was both a fight scene but a great emotional gut punch (literally). it felt just like arcane used to. it felt like the natural progression from the s1 finale events. then act 2 happen...... and oh boy. the moment we started going into weird magic stuff i knew we're down a bad path. after that act i lost hope cause i knew no matter how good act 3 will be, they could never solve this mess in 3 episodes. and then they proceeded to waste an episode on an alternative timeline (cool idea but guys we have so much to deal with in the main timeline) and the finale was completely empty of emotional resolutions (except maybe viktor\jayce). ep 8 technically tied up what the entirety of act 1 built for, emotionally, with the jinx\vi\cait stuff and it didnt feel like they gave it too much attention.
Thank you for explaining so well :,) i loved most of the season, but the finale was most disappointing. It felt like they needed two more episodes. Also tho i understood why isha did what she did but i feel it was for nought
Yes. There is a lot of interesting themes to think about in season two. But it's definitely worse than season one. What I lacked the most was the focus season one gave even minor characters. Jericho (the undercity's chef) felt more like a character than Loris, Maddie and the fish-like enforcer combined.
Amazing video, disagree with a good amount of the stuff you bring forward but you explain why you feel that way well and highlight some very important inconsistencies. Like seemingly everyone else in the comments, my main issue is pacing and I do love the ending, but thanks for your input pey! :)
My issue with season 2 is that a lot of the core characters that made season 1 so phenomenal feel like they got a complete change of tone to them that season 1 ended up building for those characters. For example Jink to me in this season feels completely different than she did in season 1, like what happened to all of her schizophrenia, and hallucinations that she was going through in season 1, with all her trauma and stuff. Like yea she was seeing people like Silco in the jail cell, but compared to everything else in season 1 it might have only happened to her this season once or twice.Plus by the end of season 1 she accepted becoming Jink, and doing an act that seemed unredeemable like blowing up the council. It just feels very contrived from what her character was set out to be in season 1, and I feel like all of that went away this season.
I don't remember season one that much but didn't Jinx only start tweaking when Vi came back ? (I'm not sure) Only problem I have with her is in the finale, her biggest change yet happened off screen, she came back a whole new character. Idk why some ppl seems to be ok with this when they were annoyed that Vi and Jinx made up too quickly in act 2.
@@lockekappa500 I’m willing to go back and check again, but in my opinion it makes no sense for her too all of a sudden loose years of trauma with silco death, it actually should have gotten worse by season 2, but they just kinda brush it off. On top of all of that she accepted who jink was.
@@DanielDiaz-ix3yw I mean she tries to kill herself like 3 times in S2. I dunno if I'd call that losing all of your trauma. She just contains it differently.
I found the second season to be pretty dissapointing, its not only about pacing issues, the whole story falls flat on its face. The whole first season got murdered in the name of fan serving black rose content and some fucking world ending conflict with victor as its source, its just... Not good as a second season. Like, i really was looking up to second season exploring the conflict between two cities further, but we got like one episode of enforces doing police brutality, one scene of protestors getting jailed, and thats it. No more conflict. Now we focus on our mechanical jesus and the wacky adventures of noxians! Oh, and when at the last stand undercity citizens just agreed to cooperate with like no agency shown, its just... Infuriating The whole last episode felt very cheap. Do you really need to structur it like bog standart superhero film last fight or what, it was just embarrassing
I'd argue that the pacing issues and the finale-ex-machina are actually one and the same issue. These writers have earned my absolute trust that they know how to tell a good story, but I feel like they were restricted by other conditions, and forced to rush the rest of the story into only a second season, when it really deserved at least a third. My understanding is that they were initially planning 5 seasons of Arcane, before it was was shortened and plans for the spinoffs were announced. (EDIT: I was mistaken about this. I'll clarify at the end.) My thesis: I think that all of the plot elements that crowded this season (black rose, ambessa, viktor, warwick, etc) would have worked perfectly together, if only they had been given a third season to breathe. With another season, you could explore the Piltover-Zaun conflict more deeply, have Ambessa and Victor become _complications_ in that conflict, rather than steamrollers of it. If given enough time, the Piltover-Zaun conflict can flow seamlessly into Viktor's shift from "disgruntled visionary, struggling to push the system to improve undercity lives," to "cult leader who has resolved to burn down the whole system in favor of a radical utopian solution." I mean, can we talk about how the relationship between Piltover and Zaun CREATED a world-ending-Viktor, just as it created Jinx in Season 1? Imagine an entire season devoted to exploring that truth, interrogating those conditions as his shift is gradually ongoing. They tried this here, but again it was just too rapid and bare-bones. Ambessa and the Black Rose, too, could've not steamrolled the plot if only they had their own room to breathe. She could have been a new player on the political board, influencing the Piltover-Zaun conflict in a more complex and gradual way, with Mel and her fear of the Black Rose influencing her in return, in a series of delicious character-driven pushes and pulls, just as the writers demonstrated they could pull off with Jinx or the Firelights in S1. Something more nuanced and character-ful than a singular terrorist psyop and immediate authoritarian takeover that turns various complex factions into a united front against Pure Evil. And in the end, she can still ally with Viktor to use him as a weapon after being denied control of Piltover and its Hextech, but it can be for reasons that arise from the evolving relationship between Piltover and Zaun, rather than JUST Caitlyn's decision to side with Vi and try to save her dad. With all the exact same elements, and just more time, you could have basically this same finale, but with a more fleshed-out background that ties it all in to the core themes of the show, rather than how narratively and thematically disjointed it is now. I'd love to see Sevika joining the Council at a mid-point of the story rather than the end. I'd love to witness all the hard work and tense negotiation that has to go into repairing city relations, all of which is merely _implied_ by the show's ending. It could mark the point where things look like they might actually take a turn for the better, before an inevitable and irreconcilable conflict that drives Viktor and Ambessa to such drastic measures. Drama just like we saw in the first season. Maybe what we got was a result of corporate influences restricting the show, or maybe it was the writers themselves wanting to save time for future projects they were excited about, and just underestimating how much time was needed to execute Arcane's story. (EDIT: While Riot did "set aside enough funding for 5 seasons," that's totally separate from the actual plans of the creatives, who apparently had always planned on 2 seasons. So it was indeed the latter case of biting off more than the runtime could chew.) In any case, I think this show is flawed but fantastic. It's affected me very powerfully, and has given me a huge amount of creative inspiration. It's gotten itself stuck in my head in the way good art does, both for its flaws and its successes. Maybe I'll read or write some fanfiction about it. Maybe I'll write a dnd campaign to take a crack at that kind of story myself. I hope everyone else who was disappointed can turn that feeling into greater creative inspiration.
i get people’s disdain for the fast pace and the shift to bigger scope and conflicts. but all of the main cast had come full circle in beautiful character arcs by the end, and in the face of an existential threat like viktor and ambessa, i find it believable that the two cities would ally to fight him off. it was in both of their own self interests to avoid total annihilation. try watching some video analyses of the season, it might clear up some confusion from the fast pace, and hopefully you’ll find everything more satisfying
One criticism i would say about your analysis is that I don't think Jinx was well written in this season. I think contained within this season she was an interesting and dynamic character who had a gradual and well written progression, but she is so wholly distinct from the Jinx season 1 displayed that there was a sense of whiplash garnered by her near-instantaneous switch to sanity Killing your "father" isn't an act that will fix you. It's typically a tipping point, one from which things will get worse. I'm not saying she should have gotten worse, but by the transition between seasons plus act 1 summarized what was a whole season's worth of growth Note to mention the fact that Jinx as a character just utilized different mannerisms while speaking, and whose madness wasn't really even remotely a struggle in s2. In s1 she would use a lot of colorful phrases, with my favorite and probably the most deranged one being her telling Silco that you can't put sisters back in the baby maker. That magic was lost in her season to season transition, and that change wasn't earned
They were too ambitious. They wanted to tell EVERYONE's story, which in the end resulted in all histories coming out undeveloped. Act 1, when we should see the result of Jinx attack on the lower city, it was hijacked by Mel's mother. In both Act 1 and Act 2 we barely saw anything on the lower city. Them there's Mel. Felt like she did nothing, just got on that "well" and somehow discovered everything there was to discover there, alone. Also, Mel's mother plot and goal. Would be easier and more effective to not try to take over the higher city, just honest help and get Hex as reward. Ekko should be that little thing pupil? Had I not paying attention I could not realize the somewhat one year jump in time after Vi and Cait split. During that time the series forgot to show us Ekko and that little thing together until the dream. There are times when it feels episodes are missing (including Cait one year oppression of the lower city and how it affected her). And Viktor... really disappointing to see Arcane become an average mid 1990-2000 anime, obsessed with "human evolution". That officer that betrayed Cait... we never got to know her. edit: I can't stress this enough, on how many episodes Silco didn't appeared since he died? It's crazy!
For me it was Jinx's story line. They made it seem like she was going to be saved from her depression only to kill her off. It like no matter how hard your depression gets, you can overcome it. To see her die like she was trying to do over and over again just defeats the purpose of having someone like that. It is like no matter what it doesn't change the fact that she got her wish to die and didn't get to be redeemed and have another day to fight and instead became the "bad guy who is redeemed through death" trope. It's as if mental health issues are there just to be a thing that can't be helped, can't be worked through so give up. So I wouldn't recommend the last arc.
"There is no prize to perfection, only and end to pursuit". Convenient message, but it applies to the seasons of Arcane. "Season 1 was perfect, don't touch it!", but we don't want to end the pursuit. We want it to continue. And that requires sacrifice. That requires moving on. And there's so much beauty in moving on. Wonderful video, I don't agree with everything, Arcane is still a 10/10 for me.
I do not agree with the statement: The end of her story felt very lackluster. If Jinx did something more grand, it would've felt forced. She needed to break this cycle, to leave quietly. Not to bring overwhelming victory.
I love how you talked about the main difference between the two seasons... Well, yes, season 1 had the perfect mix of carachters development and action, but even if I try to think logically, I always think that both the seasons are on the same level. I know is rushed and everything, but there are moments that really made me think about big life questions, it's been an amazing experience. My issue is that while I don't have any regrets on the first season, 'cause I think that for what it wanted to be it was absolutely perfect, for the second one I have the sad feeling that it could have been at least x4 times better than how it Is actually
to my understanding and what i’ve seen said online, the final episode was essentially meant to be a movie spanning an hour and a half and was asked by Netflix to be cut down. but, take that with a grain of salt!
This is a great video.(Until the title changed) I really appreciate the exploration of the ending while avoiding the trap of calling the show bad. Exploring the question of why something felt off to you and yet be seen as a masterpiece by others is a great topic and really appreciated. I love exploring real criticism that comes from a place of love rather than spiteful rhetoric. 0:21 I will say, I'm not sure I agree with calling the reception mixed. I think the number of people who have problems with the ending is much smaller than those who loved it if I'm going by IMDB, rotten tomatoes, and social media, as well as youtube discussions on it, the vast majority are praise. There are probably people who do have similars issues as those in the video, but are so enraptured by some other aspect of the show that they still highly rate it. Exploring what the disappointed side sees is very interesting especially when its as well thought out as this video. 2:13 Im very curious what tone S2 betrayed. The same themes are all present, the same conflicts are explored. S1 as a building season is able to spend all it's time asking questions without worrying about answers and so S2 must answer and conclude what S1 setup. S2 doesn't betray the tone it responds to it. The most tragic scenes all happen in S2, the most beautiful character moments come from S2, calling S2 Marvel or Avengers ignores episodes 1-7 and honestly several moments in episode 8 and 9. S2 does more than just touch on big concepts and dark moments, it structures the entire show around them because those moments are the response to S1. 4:07 S1 also has several characters that are mid ark. Ekko, Cait, Jayce, Mel, Victor, Heimer, JInx, Ambessa, and Vi are all mid arc when S1 ends. S1 does not end Jinx's arc it begins it. (it ends powder's arc) S1 uses side characters to satisfy the need for character arcs. Vander, SIlco, and Marcus are able to complete their arcs/stories so that s2 can conclude the other ones. In s2 now that the main characters are going through their arcs, side characters must must take a back seat. 4:39 The rocket is not the conclusion to the Jinx's arc it's the conclusion to SIlco's arc. His hatred for Piltover passed to the person he had the most influence over. Despite preaching about razing Zaun up all he has done is nearly ensured their destruction. His love for Jinx being the conduit that passes along his conflict to be carried out by Jinx at the end of S1 is great and I love S2 exploring this in Act 1 ep 2. If the show ended after S1 ep 9 it would be much worse for it. 4:59 I would have loved a more direct scene with Cait and Ambessa but I will say, I do like how the first scene we get after Cait follows Ambessa and Singed is one where Cait and Ambessa are sparing and talking about Noxian ideals. This, S1 Cait, and what happened in S2 act 1(Cait becoming isolated) tell me that all Cait needs is someone. It was Vi but it could have been Jayce if he was here, it could be her mother is she was till around to bring her back. 5:44 Maddies betrayal does put a lot of her actions in act 2 in new light and I appreciate that on re-watch. I do wish we got more screen time though. I do love that they trusted the audience would hate maddie enough to basically be 100% ok with her being a betrayer. Almost Every reaction I have seen on youtube and real life has been along the lines of "OH Maddie I knew it " and "Yes!" when she dies. 6:24 Yes, Jinx's arc completes in S2 and it's so good. The Finale 8:05 We know the stakes, we saw ep 7 avoiding that future are the stakes. We know Ambessa is going to force their way through. 8:11 They are still using the hex gates to evacuate people. Noxians are about to lead a full attack, trying to defend a whole city is too much so evacuating citizens means less to worry about. Mel tells them what is coming with orb, and the noxians, she knows what is coming cause she goes to Ambessa to plea for her to stop. We don't need a scene where she explains things we already know. 8:29 Maddie wanted to hurt Cait. She wanted her to suffer. Also its way too risky to try and take her out now, Maddie knows how capable Cait is thanks to Ambessa. Why don't they die to the cannon? Yeah we could use a scene of them moving before the explosion but them showing up implies that happened and when your looking to save any second I see why it was cut. They shouldn't be seperated, the whole point is to draw attention to them as a couple as close, that is necessary for the betrayal. Also Cait being so focused on Ambessa she misses Maddie's back stab(she stands behind her, i just really like that) 8:40 The last time he tried killing him it didn't work, so he goes for reason he tries to appeal to his humanity but it doesn't work because victor is masked. If Jayce believes that shutting down the hexgates will buy enough time for Ambessa to be defeated and backup to arrive before Victor can manually reactivate the hexgate then attacking him instead of shutting it down would be a waste. 8:53 I see this through identity. The zaunites that come to join piltover are giving up their Identity, themselves, to become a unified to become one. We see them die seemingly pointlessly because of this. We see Piltover losing, until Jinx and Ekko show up. Now it's not just Cait and Vi who have kept their identity it's all of Zaun here and the battle turns. Thematically I love it and I'll happily take the plot armor that comes with it. 9:15 Again is not just join as one against bad. Victor is coming to wipe out who we are. Giving up who you are to try and defend it is not the way to stop this. I would love more scenes emphasizing this but the contrast between their deaths and Zaun joining scream this message at us. 10:08 We are super attached to Ambessa. The show does a phenomenal job building upon her short s1 introduction. Her death is a consequence of her actions, its poetic/thematic. The fight with cait and Mel is bursting with symbolism. It's easily in my top 5 arcane moments. The thematic connections between her and Silco are wonderfully set up and executed I wish we got a scene with them. 10:22 Already kinda covered this Maddie and Ambessa want to punish Cait. Is it cliche sure, but it's in service to their characters. Ambessa is the decoy, she doesn't actually need to break through. She just needs to draw attention. A public execution here works to show that Piltover doesn't win by zaun joining them and becoming enforcers it wins by having Zaun keep their identity 10:28 Subjective view on magic in fiction nothing to really say. I do like how S1 set up mages as this terrifying force and Piltover being built to escape it and then S2 pays that off with the black rose. The irony of a pillar of Piltover being a mage is also really great. Complaints about magic in the show called Arcane do feel a little strange but to each their own. 10:47 None of this is important. In a world where Jayce got teleported across the globe in episode 2, and we travelled to different dimensions, nit picking Mel's abilities when they are pretty clear she manifest light in some way and that's all that really matters. I think wanting a full explanation of how magic works at this point is kinda strange since why would anyone in a city of no magic users know how it works. But it's fair to not enjoy shows that have this kind of magic. 10:53 She goes down to confront Ambessa, Loris while she is on the way. We see her coordinating the defense (fox) before confronting her mother to become the wolf. It's done for thematic reasons not empty ones. Deus ex machinas don't have this much going on (Oh the irony if her powers are actually tied to the aspects). Her powers don't come from nowhere, her powers are what is driving Ambessa. Mel's powers tie so well into her S1 set up of never feeling like a Medarda and S2 pays it off once again. 11:14 the z drive is destroyed as a consequence of going too far back. oh and that is how Jayce is able to finally reach Victor. There is so much going on in that sequence I don't have time to get into it. 11:37 the other option was to give in. Accept what victor is showing him, let him remove conflict from this world. But he's seen something better, he knows how hollow Victor's promise is. He's seen a world where conflict is resolved and what that can bring and throws it in Victor's face. 12:17 It's not just a big fun happy finale, I covered some of the reasons why above and there is much more that I haven't touch on 12:38 Them showing up after Piltover fails is thematically necessary. I covered identity above already. 12:48 Scenes like this are in service to the characters/themes of the show I think the 4 of my top 5 episodes come from S2, not just for the animation but all the care they put into those characters and the writing that went into setting up their themes. I love that almost no scene in S2 is just what is happening on screen and can be traced back to moments in S1. I love videos like these cause thinking about S2 beyond "it's amazing I love it" really help me understand what makes this show so great.
Wholeheartedly agree, it's easy to not think too deeply about what you're watching and dismiss things that dont seem to make sense or dont follow expectations and that's fine, you don't need to put every show under a lens, but arcane is filled with so much nuance and everything shown is done with intention, it's an invitation to the viewer to engage with the product and the act of understanding it is rewarding on its own, if everything was spelled out the show wouldn't be as good as it is Also a lot of the things are missable with how much this season is trying to juggle and I feel like a second viewing would've answered a lot of his questions and concerns already Your comment definitely deserves more attention
@@ThiagoSilva-gb2ivno need to be a passive aggressive asshole. especially when heimerdingers character WAS ASSASSINATED. Yeah, he has his character development, but that’s after his character has already been assassinated. Heimerdinger was turned into a comedy puppet in act 1, wasn’t present for act 2, finally gets some meaningful moments in act 3, and then is killed in such a CONVENIENT and boring way. Frankly their handling of his character was executed very poorly in season 2.
@@pd7484 Idk, for me he went a whole arc from apathy "I did everything I could" to activity "I still can help" with help of Echo in days, while being at peace for 3 years. He is a near immortal being, 3 years is a blip for him, yet Echo manages to change his life IN DAYS. Hence his phrase before disappearance "Since I've met you lad, I've truly lived". He had little time, but in that time he changes himself and helps to form other crucial craracter. Are you sure you don't ask too much? Also, he is very much alive and I'm *absolutely* sure will be in future Runeterra projects.
@@shipso6116 I don't think so, personally. It’s not too much to ask for Heimerdinger to resolve his conflicts with Jayce and Viktor. He never made things right with them, and the tension between him and Jayce is only briefly alluded to. It's also insane that he never gets to react to Jinx's rocket, or learns about the attack on the memorial. He doesn't even learn about the Enforcers gassing the streets of the undercity, which could've been a key event in giving him the perspective he needs to be a better leader. Similarly, Ekko never really calls him out for his negligence, or his role in Piltover and Zaun becoming the mess of conflict it is today. He was there from the beggining. He would've known that the undercity was festering in the toxic mines and Piltovers run-off waste.
I agree with almost every point made in this video! I saw someone comment either on this video or somewhere else that this show should've been 3 Seasons, with S2 Ep6 acting as the S2 finale, and I feel like that would've helped the show immensely. We didn't get nearly as much time to develop many characters and relationships as we really needed, and that sucks. That's partly the writers' fault and partly the Netflix executives who made the writers cut out hours of ideas they already had cooking (like 30-60 minutes of Ekko and Jinx talking before the big fight in the final episode). If this show was 3 seasons, it would have been much better than it was, but it didn't. Even though I totally agree with basically this entire video, I can see all the flaws that Arcane had, and I know it's not a perfect show, I could not care less. This is probably my favorite show/piece of media I've ever seen and I'm so insanely happy that it got made and not canned like it almost did 9 years ago. (Also thanks for putting my first comment in the video!)
for me Arcane season 2 feels extremly character driven. Each "main" character has a fullfilling story arc that expands on the character and shows growth. and there are a lot of main characters: jinx,vi,mel,caitlyn,Jayce,ekko,ambessa,Heimerdinger,Sevika,Viktor,Warwick,Singed,isha and a few smaller roles. i can look at each of these names and can see the story line and growth they had in that season. adding for each one a full story arc and combine them (ok except ekko they just stuffed it all in 1 episode) was very impressive from my point of view. "a hundred good ideas squezeed into a small 9 Episode box" summarizes this quite well
I really appreciate this take on what season 2 was. I really loved your point about expectations because ultimately that's what drives how we view/consume media. I also fully agree with the points you made. Masterfully crafted video and commentary man, keep it up !
Lately I've been loving scamboli reviews as his videos for me are the revival of back when DouchebagChocolat was making videos. Your latest video essays are scratching the itch that gigguk used to back when he still dropped video essays rather than focusing on trash taste / streaming etc. Great video, I hated the finale the first time I watched it. But then once I knew it was as good as it was ever going to get I rewatched the whole second season, appreciating what it was rather than what it could have been, and it's still among the best television ever produced, just not quite up there with season 1. But I don't think anything ever could be. Overall, I'm happy with it
After this all, I think it's good to appreciate the media, there's many amazing things about season 2 and it deserves the credit. On the other hand, respecting each other's opinions goes a long way, criticism is valid perhaps subjective but it helps the creator's out. True, am I bummed out they didn't execute this season 2 flawlessly, its not like there's no hope now, the creator's still respect us, and they're taking this into the next show, this is all a learning process
How exactly would you describe this "What it could have been"? What wouldve made the show better? Genuinely curious because as far as I'm concerned, they've done an outstanding job with this series from start to finish.
Arcane was originally going to be 5 seasons. They compressed it down to 2 and are developing other shows with that budget. That why pacing and character development took a hit.
Did anyone else not really care about the Mel plot line? I would’ve liked it if they just cut that or shortened it and expanded on some of the other things like Ekko/Jinx, Viktors evolution, Vi/Jinx relationship, etc.
When the final battle happened, I was expecting it to be realistic in the sense that, real battles aren’t won last minute. When the tide is so far gone one way, the losing side doesn’t really come back and turn things around. The “we’re on the cusp of losing but still somehow win” is such a cartoonish concept so I ended up being surprised when I saw it heading that direction. Personally these tone shifts didn’t bother me. I noticed them but Arcane already showed it would give plot armor to certain characters. I already expected certain characters to live but I do think they pushed it with how so many people survived horrible explosions without any real harm. In Season 1, Ekko was hurt despite tanking an explosion that nearly killed Jinx. It was plot armor but at least the writers pretended like it hurt him lol
Season two had to tell instead of show in order to communicate the story. This is why season one felt more character motivated, whereas season two felt more plot driven
Season 2 didn't HAVE to tell instead of show. It chose to. Nothing was forcing them to make the story less character-driven, and the focus on plot above character only served to weaken the genuineness Season 1 cultivated. It feels much more like modern Hollywood slop at several points, specifically because they chose to de-emphasize character and not let developments breathe.
I very much loved the entire show, though I do still have major issues. I remember the moment Jayce gave his whole 'we have to put aside our differences and work together' speech and disappointedly thinking "oh really we're doing this?" and from then on I don't think it really stopped feeling like marvel movie. There's some stuff you mentioned I don't really mind (my interpretation with ekko and the time limit was the negative affects were limited to the things around him so if the only things around him were mindless enemies then there'd be no problem if they got messes up in the process), but yeah it didn't really fell like the same thing Maybe the best way to put it is while I did enjoy the entire season including the last act, I don't think I'm *satisfied* with it. There's almost nothing I'd consider outright bad, and there was never a moment I wasn't having good time or wasn't hooked, but there's very little I can look at and think "I really like how that concluded" or "I'm glad this is where that ended up". And I know there will be more content in the same universe but I have no idea what form that'll take so for now I'm just charging Arcane as a finished product and not as an entry in a larger universe. My thoughts still aren't fully solidified. There's things I loved and disliked that haven't changed since first watch but also some things I've changed on both positively and negatively and things that I'm still going back and forth on in my head. Overall though, glad this show exists and I'm cautiously optimistic about what comes next
Thank you for sharing this. I feel like there’s so much to talk about with this show and how it handled its second season, but as a 15 minute synopsis of my feelings on it…this video explains it pretty well.
Season 2 of arcane had a variety of problems but to me, every single one of those problems was a direct result of them not having enough time. Im so confident that with another season, or even just another 3 episodes, all of these issues would've been fixed because they couldve taken the time to set up the tonal shift
season 2 felt like it could shirk on the things that season 1 meticulously set out, and ultimately lost a lot of my respect for that very reason. all i wanted was conversations, emotional dichotomy, a moment to sit in everything, but it's so entirely wrapped up in itself and its need to further include more league of legends points as opposed to working around what they already had, that while i can understand what they were going for, its made a poorer piece of media for it as a whole. had season 2 ended with act 2s finale i think we wouldn't need to have to be so harsh on it, but that's not what we got. what could have been, indeed. really love your videos, thanks for sharing.
Its weird that I recognised all these flaws while watching the show, but I still loved it so much and is still my favourite show of all time. I usually hate convenience and unexplained shit like this but I did not care this time for some reason
THIS. thank you. completely agree, i feel like they had so many fantastic character choices but so little time to show them make and come to terms with those choices. so many decisions required rewatches to make sense because everything's so quick you literally might miss it if you blink. and the conflict between zaun and piltover? yeah. enemy ex machina, we get a temporary alliance and no actual progress. so many conflicts feel like, instead of getting solved, they just fall away and are declared irrellevant. oh, cait's a dictator? nah, vi needs her so she'll just. stop that. will they talk about it? nah. god, what could have been. i truly feel like i wanted a third season just so that season 2 could have had time to deal with everything it set up.
This feels to me like the whole Black Panther experience. It was such a novel thing with an ending that was also a lackluster marvelfest, but it was still a very shifting experience for me.
I think the reason why I personally liked it was because it did NOT fulfill my expectations. Just like you said, I was expecting something a bit more lighthearted but was surprised when it touched on darker themes. This is of course very much based on personal preference but that's why Arcane and Media averting expectations is something very special at least for me. Art becomes itself most true when it is flawed. Which is no excuse, just something to think about.
I emphatically disagree with your point that we were given no insight into Caitlyn's perspective when she was about to betray Ambessa. Her reintroduction in act 2 and pretty much every scene since we see her at odds with Ambessa, but willing to work with her for the unpleasent things she feels she needs to do. You can't even say it is never made explicit, since she does say outright that neither of them TRUST each other. My point here is that Arcane is a layered show, and the second season seems more determined to make this facet of it part of the experience, so it will take a while for us as a fandom to digest it, and I personally think this is a strength of the show.
I agree with most of your points. I have to point out that when Ekko uses the Z drive past the 4 seconds mark (11:30) you can actually see the robots around him explode and he's incredibly struggling too, as if he's experiencing some kind of physical pain. But yes, it still feels a little bit too convenient. Overall I think Ekko, Jayce and Viktor had the most complete arcs this season.
My biggest gripe was the cutting of content that would have added even more story (mostly cut content ekko and jinx) of course. 60 minutes of content that was just taken out due to time that I feel like should really have been left in and they just make a compromise instead of taking it out completely because even if it worked alright without it. It always felt like something was missing between them like there was supposed to be more. Of course pacing was a hit off and ending did not feel satisfactory in a ways. But while it is flawed it is and always will be one of the most amazing and enjoyable things I have ever watched and I am excited to see more and them hopefully bringing some of the characters back for different stories even tho it felt like we were robbed of some good stuff this season fr
I understand and agree with much of what you said, but in the case of Ekko being able to go back further without causing a major consequence it is easily explained. All thanks to Heimer who worked on the time machine to increase its capacity. So much so that if it were otherwise, Ekko would never have been able to leave the other timeline and come to this one.
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
"arcane was flawed and beautiful. but what it couldve been? ...damn." literally sums up everything about what i feel about arcane. great video
could it of been any better tho,like yeah they did remove about 3 hours worth of charecter chitchat but they did not miss any of the core story beats.
yea shits low key depressing. I could see a world where this became my all time favorite piece of media. But it's merely in my top 10. If only it got more time to build up the payoffs
and stayed more grounded :(
@@daniellambert6590 well a character based show without characters interacting will tend to be less emotionally resonant. I think that's a big reason everyone loved episode seven. We got a lot of heartfelt and candid moments between characters that had kind of been missing
@@daniellambert6590 Season 2 was a mess, they missed every single core story beat. The art and animation was top notch though.
In the pursuit of great, season 2 failed to do good
To me, the only flaw in season 2 was pacing. And tbh, if the only bad thing you can say about a show with so many complex and interwoven stories is "yeah, the pacing is a bit off at times", its still a damn incredible show.
Thats also my opinion. The pacing was my biggest issue, but like i could look past some of it since its not *that* bad
The pacing and the cut content for me :'(
I agree, I loved it including the pacing. I think the biggest reason people are 'finding things wrong' with it to make videos is just trying to get attention.
Pacing isn’t the only problem lmfao
@ not true in any way lmao there’s so many things wrong with it
Really well articulated. I think you really hit the nail on the head with Noxus' invasion being an easy resolution to the conflicts between Piltover and Zaun, which had such depth in s1 that I think s2 really missed
This is crazy. The show did not do this. There is clearly still a lot of tension between Piltover and Zain, shown by the tense looks Sevika received from the other council members, Caitlin asks Vi if she is still in this fight. There is obviously more work to be done
@@MideXIII Which means they didn't resolve the main conflict from which the entire show was built on.. The conflict should never have escalated so far beyond the two cities that it consumed the entire finale of the show.
And a single, ambiguous look given to Sevika (who didn't get a single line in the entire final act) is not "clearly" showing us anything. We don't even know how or why she ended up in that seat to begin with, because she was completely neglected in the end, and nothing built up toward her being a councilor..
The criticism here isn't "crazy" just because you don't want to acknowledge it. And I get it, I wish S2 could've been perfect too, but.. it wasn't. It's wasted potential, and has many, many glaring flaws that are now attached to the shows name. It's tragic, but magic doesn't exist in real life, so we can't get a do over like Ekko.
@ the conflict between Piltover and Zaun has never actually been the main focus of the show. It’s always been the backdrop to the characters and their relationships with one another.
Ask yourself, from season one, was it ever explained why there is even an Undercity? How exactly are they being oppressed by Topside? What freedoms were the citizens of Zaun denied by the people from Piltover? None of this has ever been explicitly stated in the show.
There is no easy solution to the conflict between the two cities, if we go by real life parallels of conflicts between two warring nations. For the show to have made up some magic resolution would have been even more contrived. It shows them at least starting a path towards peace even if it might never be truly achieved.
What the show did resolve was the character relationships I.e Powder and Vi, Jayce and Victor, Mel and Ambessa etc. if you had a problem with these resolutions that’s fine. I personally did not.
Problems like Sevika not having lines in Act 3 are valid, but the show did enough with the visual shorthand, and she obviously got a seat by being one of the central leaders of Zaun, who had just played an integral role in winning the war for Piltover.
Season 2 is not as tight as Season 1, but is still great. Wanting it to be perfect is an unfair expectation.
@@MideXIIIThe show was about relationships, but these relationships worked within the conflict of Zaun and Piltover. I think why we're disappointed is because we loved that conflict and looked forward to explore it far more, which they never did because Tech-Jesus took up the whole second half of S2.
I think that's the one big thing I can say I straight-up dislike. It feels like such a 'safe' and cliche way to end things it honestly felt beneath a show like this.
About Jayce not shutting down the Hex gates earlier, he was using the portals to evacuate the city up until the last moment. Ideally, he thought he had more time since they spotted the cocoon (Viktor) outside the city at the time.
Do we see them using the hexgates then?
@pugisherpug4366 yes
This should've been stated during the meeting where they were talking strategy then. Though even that explanation doesn't make sense, because if Viktor reaching the Hexgates means the end of the world, then isn't it more important to shut them down regardless? The stakes are too high at that point.
@@DLxxx technically the hex gate is a launching base. Ships can still come and go just not magically launched if it was gone. Honestly it would make more sense to send them off naturally as they’d still be able to make a safe distance more than likely without magic and deactivate the gate then and there. Due to it being an end of world situation that Jayce knows about as you said involving hextech and wild runes. A lot of people didn’t leave either it seems especially in zaun.
@@DLxxx Jayce did say that they were destined to lose, so he probably didn't believe in their victory too much and wanted to get as many people out of Piltover and Zaun as possible as fast as possible.
Plus, via using the hexgates, people would get to their destinations faster and would be able to warn other nations as well probably(Not that they need to, because Viktor is very weak in grand scheme of things and would get taken down instantly if he even tried to move past Piltover).
Episode 7 is so strong I was numb watching 8 and 9. I didn't care anymore what would happen to the season ending.
6 and then 7, for me. Isha’s sacrifice is still the most powerful moment in season 2 for me.
I felt the exact same way. 6 and 7 were so strong that the breakneck speed and overly ambitious mess that was 8 and 9 even got me feeling bored....
That being said, Arcane at it's worst is still better than a lot of stuff out there.
i felt the opposite. episode 7 felt like fan fiction/filler. i guess it served as a training montage for ekko learning how to do his time travel. 8 and 9 brought us back to the actual plot.
@@nullakjg767to everyone their own, but the tragic love story that never could have been is incredible. The boi who slipped through time had everything in his hand, his post father, his first love that never went crazy and yet he still decided to fight for his lost world. The music, the emotions were just so raw and relatable for me, it was incredible
@@KennyMcGavin That's precisely where I'm at. Could S2 have been as good as S1? Sure, yeah. But not much is as good as S1. S2 for all it's flaws is still better than so, so much that I've seen.
11:19 there is consequence. You can see the robots that surrounded him when he travelled back in time get blasted away, as well as the mini core inside the Z drive go unstable, which allows the explosion when he throws it at viktor. He travelled back to an area where no one important surrounded him, so the only things that are affected by cranking it past 4 seconds are the enemies. It just happens pretty quick so I get that it can be missed.
The z-drive exposing the right side of victors mask, the right side of the brain is responsible for emotions, dreams, creactivity. You love to see it.
still dumb, we dont even know how that shi works. Why did it affect heimerdinger after 4 seconds but not ekko or powder. If he goes back like 20 seconds like he did he should be affected in some way regardless of how fast he gets out of range or whatever tf.
@@AidanDonnelly-x9i It's not dumb. Demanding the author explain HOW magic works is an unbelievable request. Especially in a series where the HOW has never once been brought up or mattered. No one demanded to know HOW shimmer worked in S1, When the z-drive is first shown going beyond 4 seconds we see it doesn't affect the user. That's all we need to know. When he goes back 12-13 seconds in the finale it overloads the device. We can also infer since Powder was standing next to Heimer and didn't get touched that yordles are affected differently than humans. No the show doesn't need Ekko to say this the fact that Heimer appeared in the same universe 1000 days ahead of Ekko goes along with this. BUUUT we really don't need to. It's a magic time loop device with consequences for going back farther than 4 seconds. THERE👏ARE.👏SO.👏MANY.👏DEVICES.👏LIKE.👏THIS.👏IN.👏FICTION.👏 And not just fiction but great fiction.
@@Joeda89 lol, no shit. Yordles are affected differently. The time limit was made 4 seconds for stakes. Its not like he tested it out to see how long he could go back before it'd explode humans lol. There were no stakes or consequences to him going back 20 seconds, not that i wanted ekko to die or anything. Its just poor
@@AidanDonnelly-x9i It destroys the z-drive, that's the consequence. His connection to powder, that world, is sacrificed as a consequence. There is so much going on in this scene that getting hung up on this just because you think the magic in the show is all of the sudden bad writing now, when it has always been used like this even in S1(black box engineering with magic as the input).
I completely agree. Season 1 was perfection, season 2 compromised that perfection for a grander scope and emotional highs. I think this story would have fit better into three seasons, but I'm still eternally grateful that season 2 exists.
The complete series is still a masterpiece, flaws and all.
Agree. It could've been absolutely a masterpiece if given the time and money, but sadly this show, even aside from the cost factor, takes A LOT.
The show runner gave an estimate, each animator can produce like 4 seconds of animation per week. Fortiche has ~300 people currently.
It just takes so much time to do one episode, much less a season.
This is why the writers rely on "show don't tell" so much, they HAVE to, because they need to squeeze every single second dry.
I think this is ultimately what hurts S2 a lot as well, as they rely on that too heavily and it results in a lot of people just not understanding some important plot points like Ekko's Z-drive and how it works. Even though we're shown how it should work with Heimer exploding, a lot of people don't understand that the Z-drive explodes the radius around the user if you crank it up too high. This was another "show don't tell" moment, however a lot of people just missed/don't understand it. S2 has MANY instances of this.
All I wish is for Fortiche to get more animators for their next series, because god damn. If they can resolve the time issue with extra labor, then the writers can go wild and not have to cut so much content. For an example, the last ep was originally meant to be ~1 hr 30 mins long, but it was cut because Fortiche's director just straight up said it was impossible. It just wouldn't fit in the timeline, so they had to keep cutting content until they reached a feasible timeline. Some of this content includes things like Ekko and Jinx's interactions, actually showing how he talks her down.
@@aveshlutchman8573 It still has not been confirmed that we are getting another animated show from Fortiche. We know that there is a “show in the works,” but we also know that Riot bought a live action script. It is ENTIRELY possible that the live action IS the “show in the works.”
Fortiche said they were looking into more “projects” with Riot, which is far more likely to involve an animated movie than a show. A movie, which can get the box office money that a show does not get.
As someone who absolutely loved season two and didn't understand people's complaints about pacing, I couldn't agree more with your thoughts on the finale. It feels like the writers wanted a big finale and the biggest thing they could come up with was a big war and the "Night King"esque, world-ending threat of Viktor. To me that would make a lot more sence for a series focused around Noxus than around Piltover and Zaun. Before, Arcane allways tried to tell smaller, more personal stories. It was centred around its characters and their complex emotions, relationships and conflicts, which is something the last episode completely abandons.
One example that I find shows this perfectly is the fact that Vi and Caitlyn have two interactions over the course of the episode: One at the beginning of the episode and one in the final scene. Their relationship, after being established one episode earlier, becomes completely irrelevant to the plot.
I have similar feelings about Mel's character. She discusses with Jace, that she doesn't want to only be defined by her magic, now that it has been awakened. But everything that made her character interesting before, namely her diplomatic talents and strong leadership, don't even come up and instead she only acts as a mage for the whole time she is present.
Furthermore, Jinx's whole story arc isn't even concluded. I found it extremely fascinating how they told her redemption arc after establishing her as almost completely irredeemable at the end of season one. Meeting Isha forces her to take on responsibility and (at least how I interpreted it) helps her understand both her father figures and sister better. And it created the new conflict of Jinx becoming a symbol while she wants to leave the part of herself that is Jinx behind. Isha's death could have mobilised her to (maybe with the help of Ekko, which could have created great parallels to episode 7) finally become that, to "build something" (a reoccuring theme in her story arc throughout season two) and maybe even play a part in uniting the upper and lower city.
Even if you wanted a great spectacle for the last episode, the Idea for a civil war/revolution is right there since the beginning of the series! Its resolution would make for a fitting narative conclusion to the whole story and it would be a great setting to conclude the story arcs of the individual characters.
All that being said, Arcane's beauty and accomplishments in animation are undeniable and it is still a big contender for my favorite series of all time.
At least the battle against THIS Night King was infinitely better than the actual one.
There were a lot of scenes that I feel were missing. For instance, Vi's input on Isha's sacrifice knowing Jinx was close to her. Mel's reaction to Jayce disappearing for good, and the aftermath whether she mourned or not. Sevika having gaining the trust of the Chem-Barons. I noticed that too many events just occurred offscreen.
Yes! similarly to House of the Dragon season 2, you couldn't predict that a character would mourn another or react to something happening like you could in their respective season 1s. The plots for each were far too broad
@@lukewhite1249 Exactly, I felt like they forgot that's what we like to see.
Even just Caitlyn reacting to Jayce, her best friend, suddenly being gone for so long.
I would also note that this tonal shift is also a thematic shift, which is sad because I thought episode 7 really leaned into the previously set up themes. The show shifted from being about the conflict of two cities to having a Wheel of Time-esque finally. Thematically, the ending on its own wasn't bad, it just wasn't set up to be what it was. Essentially, the final themes were set up almost entirely in a single monologue given by Viktor at the end of Act 2.
this was my exact feeling. the themes of Piltover/Zaun that were foundational to s1 are glossed over for new themes in the final episode about the pursuit of perfection. It’s not bad, it’s just not at all thematically cohesive in the way s1 was. And the themes and complex systemic conflicts that s1 was build on and explored so intricately were reduce to “we gotta team up to stop a common end of the world threat”
As Jayce said in ep8 when asking the people he as oppressed to fight along side him, “this isn’t a fight for ideals or territory” which is precisely how the finale lost me thematically.
"we were given no insight into why caitlyn betrays ambessa"
I just fundamentally disagree. In episode 4 it is literally explicitly said that they don't trust eachother, and Caitlyn explicitly questions their methods. We have Caitlyn express doubts to Maddie, too. We have a whole sequence about Cailyn seeing what it's like when you do horrible things and then justify it with love, and you can see her realization of where that can lead. And then she is obviously confronted with the fact of what Vi is trying to do. And having just lost her mom, OBVIOUSLY she will not stay on the side, that is working to stop Vi from saving her dad. She knows what it would mean if she had the chance to bring her mom back
I think we got plenty of insight, just more subtle ones. But they were there
I agree with this take. We can argue about if cait would feel more concise if they had an actual dictator arc in act 2. With the setup at the end of act 1 it feels like a tool to separate Vi and cait.
I see a lot of people who seem to be enraged at Cait, or just think she's a bit underwritten. But I think we were meant to wonder which side she was on. That way, her siding with Vi in ep6 would have genuine tension, and be a surprise.
What about the whole Ass caitlyn rise to power in the episode 3?
It really felt half assed after all that build up from ambessa. caitlyn leaving vi, her sleeping with maddie.
Then somehow she immediatly disagree with ambessa a minute into the episode. then somehow it goes back again from her training arc with ambessa.
All of that then getting lovestruck by seeing vi Once.
It really felt convenient from me. I just wished we have more time like 4-10 minutes of dialogue from caitlyn. speaking out what she really feels, but yeah thats just my side of things
@@leifmochi5082 What do you mean "whole ass caitlyn rise to power?" You mean the 30seconds we get of Caitlyn pressing her hand to her chest? Which is then COMPLETELY questioned by her conversation with Maddie in the VERY next scene in Episode 4? What do you think happened between those two scenes? You don't have to wonder, because the scene with Maddie tells us where Caitlyn's headspace is. And beside her obsession with Jinx, she is not at all in line with Ambessa. Never has been.
@@leifmochi5082 "after all that build up from ambessa"
what buildup exactly? from the very scene at the end of episode 3, it was made pretty obvious that ambessa wants her as a puppet, exploiting her grief to be able to manipulate her into doing what she wants
not at any point in that arc was it suggested that cait is fully bought in, full dictator etc.
"then somehow she immediatly disagree with ambessa a minute into the episode"
why wouldn't she? we have literally no reason to think that cait suddenly turned bloodthirsty and a full-on fascist. her relationship with ambessa is always shown as an untrusting, uneasy alliance due to a momentary shared goal
"then somehow it goes back again from her training arc with ambessa"
one training scene is not an "arc". cait says the doesn't trust ambessa, and says she isn't fully onboard with the approach, but at the same time she also says in episode 4 that she has learned from her - that is what the training is about. cait clearly sees some things worth learning in ambessa, that doesn't mean she suddenly fully trusts her though. none of these actions are contradictory
"All of that then getting lovestruck by seeing vi Once"
she quite obviously never stopped caring for vi. in episode 3 when she leaves her, you can see her facial expression soften into regretful before she turns away from vi - she does not hate vi, but vi being next to her makes her more conflicted about her goals, and that extra conflict is something she cant handle alongside everything else, so she just gets rid of the situation that causes that internal conflict. doesn't mean she no longer cares for vi - especially when, like i said, she finds out that vi is trying to save vander. it's sort of the final straw in a long chain of small moments that were chipping away at her alliance with ambessa
My problem with S2 is that I was never quite clear on what each character wanted. There was no real conflict (hence, the pacing) because there was no contrary purposes, which is exactly what S1 did so incredibly well. I mean, Jayce flattened someone with his hammer *while their backs were turned*, and for what? Vi goes from "I have no sister" to "let's work on our issues" and it's just so... meh. Same for every character: I never knew what they wanted. Espeeecially the Medardas.
Yeah.. another example that bothered me is Sevika helping Jinx at the end of Act 1. I get that Sevika probably wanted to strike back at the enforcers unleashing the grey in Zaun, but we should've gotten that communicated to us in some way. Or why Isha followed Jinx despite her being an insane terrorist who killed multiple people in front of her, was wanted by everyone, and spouted off a bunch of insane ramblings. A little bit of context for her could've gone a long way.
@@DLxxx My best guess is this: Sevika and Jinx had enough time away from each other and met back up under pretty good circumstances, and with Jinx also being incredibly loyal to Silco, Sevika thought that she'd be the best fit to follow as she doesn't focus on petty turf wars.
As for Isha, she probably followed Jinx because she killed those three men to save her. She's also a l'il kid who doesn't make the best decisions.
If I were to describe Arcane finale, I would say it's messy but beautiful
If I were to describe Arcane finale I would quote Arcane, more specifically Jayce from the final dialogue:
"There is beauty in imperfections"
the finale is beautiful? arcane can be beautiful with a messy finale lol
Basically wholeheartedly agree. I watched the finale and enjoyed it, but I was also disappointed. The more I sit back to think about all it could have been, the more disappointed I am. That said, I must ekko your sentiment that it was still very much worth watching and that I would recommend it without hesitation.
I love the Freudian slip echo -> Ekko :P
I see what you did there
To explain my feelings for Arcane S2, I need to use a metaphor.
Arcane S1 is a perfectly tailored blouse that’s been freshly pressed from the cleaners. Arcane S2 is also a beautiful blouse, but it still has wrinkles that need ironing out.
S2 is a blouse designed for a giant spider with a beautiful embroidery but made to be wear by a human. A total mess that even a child can understand were it went wrong, impossible to comprehend how it got approved, but damn that art in the middle is beautiful.
If only a drop of effort was put on the themes and plot to accompany that art and animation... if only.
It's missing a sleeve
Im 5 minutes in but i think youre explaining exactly what i have been feeling. I absolutely LOVED s1. It became my favourite show. And s2 is epic, fast, interesting, still captivating but it fullfills sth different than s1. And i think because of what you said in the first 5 minutes of the video i understood how i felt about s2. I was confused after it like…. Why did i not love it the same wat i did s1? And you explained it very well
the finale was way better than I expected it to be based on the first two acts. I still think it's insane that Viktor was absent for most of the beginning of the season only to become the most important character.
The worst is how rushed the Warwick plotline was. It had no emotional weight to it, which is insane because of how important Vander was in season 1.
I'll never forgive them for turning Vi vs Warwick into an unimpactful slide show. That was one of the most anticipated fights of the entire series, built up as far back as their interactions in LoL, and yet they did nothing with it. Instead, _Jinx_ was the one who got the fully animated fight of that Act, despite us seeing nothing of their relationship in the whole series (even if we can infer they obviously loved each other).
I mean, this is obviously opinion, then. Or maybe you were multitasking during watching it, and not giving it your full undivided attention that art like this demands.
I've watched a TON of videos and read dozens of reviews and comments regarding Arcane S2 since the finale aired; this is by far the BEST and most HONEST take of the season and series as a whole. You did an OUTSTANDING job breaking down exactly why you had problems with the second season, and why you enjoyed it even though it was disappointing. Echoed my thoughts exactly. Bravo sir.
I ended my IMDb review similarly, talking about what could've been. And my final line was my twist on the Victor quote from S1: The creators lost themselves, lost their dream. In their pursuit of great, they failed to do good. And unfortunately they can't make it right.
Yeah.. What could've been. Great song. Exactly my thoughts on this season. Its like we've seen almost masterpiece from people who are truly capable of making it the masterpiece. But something got on they way. And there is no coming back...
Maybe next series will be even better? Its never too late to build something new, another great thought from arcane.
I'm honestly not disappointed that my expectations were not met. We could have gotten more episodes but what we got was still really good.
Your visual essays are incredible - thanks for putting words to what so many of us are feeling. There was so much plot jammed in this season, with so much left to implication, that it felt like the characters were being smothered by the writing. But, at the same time, it was that chaos and overwhelming story telling that made the really beautiful moments that much more precious and special. In the moments the characters didn't feel like storytelling tools, they felt so real and alive, that I personally felt more invested than ever before - but only in those moments.
My problems with S2 essentially boil down to rushed pacing & then dropping the ball on Violet & Caitlyn’s characters. I was satisfied with pretty much everything else
My thoughts exactly:
You're right in the money with this. The characters started to be pawns to move the story along vs. season 1's intense focus on the character's decisions and how they shaped the world around them.
The pacing of the last season, especially the last few episodes, was really jarring. I think Arcane should have been at least three seasons so that they could focus on the characters more. Maybe spend the second season fleshing out the lead-up to the war and the third focussing exclusively on the war so that we could get more time with the characters and their conflicts.
Pey and I resonate on a spiritual level, I had so many of the same thoughts, it almost got too ridiculous towards the end, I even said after the last trailer the plot really diverged to "let's team up and fight the real bad guy and be friends after" type ending, ep 7 was incredible tho, and obviously great animation and visual direction, not the biggest fan of the soundtrack, I prefer unique osts which I can easily recognize by a shared melody, still a good show
Okay so yeah I have some thoughts on this!
When watching the second season with my girlfriend, she voiced a similar opinion to your own. The second season is losing its grounded intimate storytelling that made the first season special. For me I was like: “Well yeah, season 1 and 2 have very different missions in mind.”
Season 1 was all about the set up, getting us introduced to the characters and worldbuilding and how they all act in tandem with eachother via conflict. It’s the build up to a grand finale, but has the legwork of making us care about these characters first.
Season 2 is the payoff of that promise; the war. In most war stories, you typically just don’t have time to still be grounded and intimate. We are of higher scale where the Arcane is growing unstable and the war between the twin cities have reached its ultimate climax. We are naturally at higher stakes.
But after the finale, I think I understood where my girlfriend and others were coming from. People enjoyed Arcane because despite its grand worldbuilding and magics, it was still boldly and even uncomfortably human most of the time. It was a story about all morally grey people who struggled with mental illness, disabilities, traumas, oppression, and the toxic ambition to uproot a dream that may cause more harm than good. And it handled all of these themes and concepts with care and sincerity.
So to have the big final showdown be Piltover and Zaun, the oppressors and the oppressed, coming together to fight a common foe which are just… emotionless robots… likely wasn’t a good idea. It did feel very stereotypical superhero movie ending, stripped of all its nuance and individual character.
All that said, though, I can’t say I hated Arcane’s ending. I think there’s something to be said about beauty in imperfections, and how the only reason we’re all having this discourse? Is because we all love Arcane.
It's unfortunate that Arcane didn't meet your expectations. However I do find it poetic that the expectations we expected the show to meet mirrors life in the way us as human beings place expectations on people, role models, celebrities etc. While they may be fantastic in their own right, one way or the other they end us letting them down just purely because they are filled with imperfections.
For me while I agree that Arcane had many flaws, it's execution in everything else surpasses many other pieces of art that it feels like a disservice to even call it dissapointing.
Very good video❤❤I've been waiting for your opinion since the Act 3 dropped and you didn't dissapoint. ❤
I think the the last act was genius. And I think a lot of these "it failed" videos won't really age well once the incredibly layered and nuanced themes that the final act displayed so well are discussed and accepted. I just find it funny that videos like this exist and then someone like schnee will dig so deep into the roots of this show and make content creators like this look like infants.
@@lockekappa500bro, themes are important and great to talk about but is the way themes are delivered less important than that? the finale was rushed and it is not perfect, we can't just excuse a bad execution because the themes are good.
@@namsinh5492 exactly
@@namsinh5492 I think bad execution and rushed are two different things. I actually think for what they went for, the finale was incredibly well executed, because it managed to tie a million loose threads up.
And I'll never disagree that the finale wasn't rushed, or that we didn't get some vital scenes that were necessary in Act 3 (ISHA!!?!?!?!?!) But in the same breath almost everything I wanted to happen, happened. Both character arc wise and thematically. If anything I got WAY more than I asked for with the Viktor/Jayce situation.
@@namsinh5492 Well put, may be misremembering but I remember a video criticising the second half of Code Geass on how it sticked to its themes too much to the detriment of the plot, if you have not already seen it would be intresting watch
"There is beauty in imperfections" Sums up my feelings for Season 2. If we got more content and the pace wasn't breakneck, it would've been near flawless. But I also heavily appreciate what we got and still love it
I feel a bit vindicated because I was wondering if I was dumb. The back and forth with Jase and Victor had me thinking i wasn't paying attention. I just kept asking why. Why did Victor embrace what he said should have been destroyed? Why did Jase react so violently and other than isolation what was the cause of his personality shift? Did they ever explain what the Arcane was? And yea...the war, they had to stop it but why? And black rose? I can assume some things but A LOT was introduced with no time to flesh it out. At least 2 more episodes could have worked it out. I still loved it tho! 3 years of waiting was worth it.
The show should have been about Piltover and Zaun, Jinx, Vi and Caitlin. The show is called arcane, but the storyline about arcane was by far the worst part of it, but in the end took over the story.
"Why did Victor embrace what he said should have been destroyed?" - Because immediately as he wakes up Jayce says it saved him, he sees Jayce's weapons blueprints and leaves him thinking he alone can do what they've always wanted: Give to the people something that saves. He checks and "is proven right" on the poor Huck of the underground, but only tapping into Jayce's future mind he sees where it lands...
"Why did Jayce react so violently" - Because he just experienced a violent near death event coupled with absolute understanding that whatever Viktor does right now is of apocalyptic danger and not only Viktor himself wanted him to act, he said "in all timelines and all possibilities *only* you can". Idk, to me all that is enough to act not the most sane way possible.
@@thijmstickman8349 I thought I was the only one who found the arcane flat and low-key annoying 😭. Probably because it felt gatekept in-universe to just Jayce, Viktor, Heimerdinger, Ekko at a later point and sometimes Mel. I just really wonder why characters like Vi have little to no basic knowledge about it except 'blue magic energy crystals'. Idk, Caitlyn probably did but at least we could've gotten scenes with the more fighting inclined characters actually learning about the science/magic stuff. It's interesting when characters step out of their spaces (e.g the Jayce and Vi fight scene from s1 which rocked). Would have also loved a Jayce and Jinx interaction.
I've just finished arcane today and find it interesting, that you brought up the topic of emotional manipulation. Because while watching the last episode, I thought to myself "Yeah, I can only be emotionally manipulated so much". At some characters death I just stopped caring and started skipping through the rest of the episode, because I wanted to be done. It is still a great series, but season 2 finale is the kind of marvel spectacle that I have seen 100 times over. The character drama from season 1 finale is something truly special though.
I feel so validated with this video. I had so many questions with the plot and characters that I ended up just being sad (or probably disappointed) as I reach the final episode. It’s also reassuring to hear someone say that they have so many ideas squeezed into short series. Still love Arcane tho. Thanks for the video! ♥️
I’d still recommend this show to anyone who values my opinion it’s likely they’ll love it. While some may feel disappointed by its missed potential myself included, they’re far fewer than those praising it as a flawless masterpiece. I was more drawn to the character drama than the beautiful spectacle of the finale. The final war felt like all the buildup of "Winter is coming," for few minutes followed by the next scene, "Oh, Winter's here."
This is the best video on Arcane finale that I have watched. Thank you!
I felt that "what it could've of been, dam." 15:24
I think I came from a place where I knew that this being a show made by riot😢 with the universe it's based on, I never allowed myself to grow too big expectations. Named character death were not even something I could fathom, not more than 1 or 2 at most. I always had in the back of my mind (this is a promotional show for an already well established game with tons of fans) so for me, it far exceeds my expectations. No, it breaks through them rocketing far beyond them. This, for me, is such a gem of a show. (For anyone wondering, no, I've never been a league player)
Let me start by saying: I really enjoy your essays and hope you keep doing what you do. You are one of the channels I watch every video, the moment they release. Now to your take.
Although I can agree with some of your criticism like with Maddies or Caitlins decisions not being set up well. I do think it's still one of the best, if not the best show i've ever seen. For me the shift from character to plot driven storytelling was necessary, because you cant keep exploring the characters and the world forever, at some point you have to tackle the conflicts in a story, which they did. I think one or two episodes more would have helped to set up all storylines better, but with the time constraints they had, they did a fantastic job. The components that were disappointing to you, you claim are examples of "failed characterwriting, poor pacing and tonal betrayal." That's harsh, considering the high level of the show. And yes, the expectations were insurmountable but by those standards you set for the show, even though at it's peak they are flawless, absolutly no series/movie will ever reach a satisfying level. And i'd argue that the peaks are only as high because there are moments that pale in comparison.
Even though I think the ending wasn't perfect, I do think it's a forgiving ending where most people are fine with its conclusion. The argument that nothing has consequence is a bit shallow. If I were to compare any other show with a moderate amount of action in it, no character would survive anything. Thats just how fights and action is written.
I think it's fair, that some poeple dont like the route they took for some of the characters or the story, but no one can argue that it didnt deliver on quality. The execution of the show is on such a high level that no other show I've seen can compare. There is so much more to say about this show, but in the end I'd say it's a flawed masterpiece.
And i leave you with the cheesy sentence: I dont cry because it's over, I smile because it happend.
What I found funny was that almost never in the entire final episode was I even worried about the battle that was happening. The battle was just a vehicle to express and finish the character arcs that we had going on. And I really don't understand how someone who spent all of their time with these characters could be interested in anything but the character moments and themes. The battle was the shiny object to keep the masses entertained. The rest of us were there for everything else.
@@lockekappa500 they wanna come back to this universe of course they cant blow it up...
@@isaacmaya1915 I'm not sure who you're responding to. Me?
@@lockekappa500 yes
honestly after episodes 5 & 6 of act 2 i was so disconnected from what was happening in the last act ,those two episodes are the only two that got me genuinely emotional the rest of the time i felt nothing.
i've been realy conflicted with Arcane as a series after finishing season 2. i was so attached and then disappointed by the ending that it bothered me too much I tried to not think about Arcane at all. But when you said it's a story that talks abt how there is beauty in flaws and the story itself is flawed and still beautiful, i think i'm starting to be okay with it. It was still so so good except up until the ending and the writers really must have done their best. Although it really makes me wonder if they were actually expecting a season 3 since I feel the pacing only suddenly fell off on the last 2 episodes. Maybe they might have been cancelled for season 3 at the last minute n had to wrap it all up asap? Aaarghh
I agree with your conclusion. I’m not as disappointed, but I see the flaws but also agree that it’s still a great story regardless. Beauty in imperfections.
And I think it speaks to how the creators probably knew they were rushing it but also knew they only had so much budget. In limiting themselves, they developed creative montages like the Zaun/Piltover “Paint the Town” music video. It tells a concise, efficient story of what happens. And it repeats that many times throughout the season.
In a perfect world, we would’ve had another act that helped flush everything out more. But we live in a reality with constraints and budgets (even with a $250M budget) that we saw them put onto the screen but we can also acknowledge would’ve costed more for a whole 3 more episodes (imagine 9 more episodes like some people are saying it needed a whole other season). Sadly, not possible, but likely a lesson to learn for future seasons. But at least we can agree that despite the imperfections, it was still beautiful.
i love movies and tv and stories in general but to be honest i never truly feel the emotions of the characters no matter how well its executed. episode 7's dance sequence was probably the most emotion ive ever felt for a character in a story, and its definitely one of those episodes of tv that i will praise for a long time
Everyone putting so much effort in commenting and criticizing that masterpiece... It really means it touched and blessed all of us.
It actually hurts to see something that was evidently made with so much love and attention to detail get so many think pieces about how it wasn’t actually great. We need to encourage art like this and the artists that made it.
@@MideXIII Fans are criticizing S2 BECAUSE they love the show so much. Most people wouldn't bother putting that much effort into critiquing art if they didn't think that art was a positive force in the world. It's not sad to criticize something you wished was better, its necessary in order to learn from those mistakes and help writers improve their own work.
@@MideXIIIidk if u watched the video but. He states that we are able to put expectations on season 2 and be disappointed because at its peak(personally season1) it was very well made.
@@jacobvang7905 so was season 2. The video had little valid criticisms, but was filled nitpicks that if actually happened on the show would be wildly narratively unsatisfying. Imagine Vi, Jinx, and Ekko actually dying from the blimp crash??? What kind of complaint is that.
Arcane Season 2 operated on a level not many works of art have ever operated on. Why not make videos highlighting the positives instead of dragging on about minute flaws that do not take away from the story, that’s what CinemaSins is for.
@@MideXIII I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m not saying season 2 was horrible at all, if anything it had so many well made things that I loved. Furthermore, the video explains that characters are given heavy plot armor in which big things that happen(like the helicopter/air-balloon crash you mentioned) feel insignificant because they barely affect the character when they are implied to have a effect on the character.(another example being Ekko, pushing the time control limits)
And about ur perspective that we should appreciate it because of the amount of work, dedication, and money went into it. I agree, however, I believe that it is just as good if not more important to an extent to focus on its flaws. I could talk about Arcane’s perfections all day, but what I’m more interested in is how Arcane could have been more. Additionally, through arcane’s messy aspects, I can appreciate its clean and near perfect aspects. That is why I said I enjoyed season 1 more, because I feel some aspects are better shown and represented. However, again, it is not to say season 2 did a bad job. I just think season 1 did a better job at portraying it and executing it. To be more specific, the large and unsettling differences and difficulties between zaun and Piltover. People from each city had very significant experiences and ways of thinking that differ. This can very easily shown in season 1. Sorry for the long message, but I’m pretty sure u thought I was hating on arcane season 2.
You’re the first to give constructive criticism and although I don’t agree with every single point… you really articulated yourself professionally and delivered fantastic points
The worst for me is to let the viewer think that Jinx died after saving her from suicide. Wtf were they thinking, it was so unsatisfaying especially with the classic 'characters hanging from the cliff' trope. We should have the clear confirmation that Jinx is alive in the ship as a last shot for the season, on her way to new adventures.
“i didnt like this so its bad! why did it spoonfed me and have a happy ending!!”
@@palemeadows why hide that jinx survived to the the viewer? i'm fine with both oucome but the execution was wierd and fall flat for me
Beautifil video, I couldn't agree more.
Episode 7 was abolutely amazing!
And the S2 finale with its big good vs evil fight was such a stark contrast to the S1 finale with its tea party...
For me.... The pacing was fine for me. Arcane season 2 builds on sn1 without handholding you, no filler, no fluff, no over-simplification, no over repetitively *FORCED* toddler-ish "comedy" and no spoon feeding while encouraging deductive participation from the audience/ viewers to follow the plot complimented by an ABSOLUTE BANGER of hyper-cinematic induction all culminating to higher immersive experience. There are many online still scratching their head about how or why Silco and Vander became buddies again in the alternate timeline yet they COMPLETELY forgot about the LETTER from Vance addressed to Silco IN SEASON 1 which Silco never read in the main timeline so it becomes BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that he read the letter and "found the will to forgive" in the alternate timeline. Brilliant compact and impactful writing. But instead many are demanding to be spoon-fed.
The only main issue for me (personal bias) is the finale should have been longer and bigger battle filled will much more multiple character moments AND we should have SEEN how Ekko united Zaun after saving Jinx including seeing Jinx make a new arm for Sevika. Also we never got to know WHO the other leading families of Piltover are but i am okay and content with what we got on screen.
Especially considering how INSANELY EXPENSIVE the budget was (Arcane sn1+2 budget= $250m, most expensive animation ever) so it's understandable how and why they made the writing tight and compact while giving the audience some participatory deduction and generate interest to research into the lore.
What they delivered is still very peak in my opinion. We all wanted more eps but there is cost-benefit situation with that. Perhaps in future projects they could make each ep 10mins longer from 40mins-50mins then the final can be like 1hr. This can be a perfect middle ground to give more time to more avenues of the plot without adding more full eps. It might cost a little more but still significantly LESS than making additional FULL eps. Either way, both Arcane sn1+2 have been incredibly amazing.
Both get at LEAST 9/10 rating from me irrespective of whatever flaws each season has.
The creator said they meant for the last season to be 90 min but something happened
you copied someone else’s comment on a different video. cmon dude.
@pd7484 I did NOT copy "someone else's comment".
@@shadowone01x99i’ve literally seen this comment before on another video. u def copied it from somewhere.
@AdorianDelmore Dang... Good to know. Perhaps we can campaign for an extended director's edition. But i think they shortened it due to budget costs because it was already excessively expensive.
Thanks. I felt the same. Like the characters are not captains anymore just passengers.
so while discussing s2 writing decissions online i've stumbled upon a lot of of people defending the plot and arguing in favour of the show's writing, including the comment sections. I myself am definitely on the more critical side but i get that everyone has a different opinion on how to a scene is read. The thing that has bothering me is how many of these "ambiguous lectures" the show allows.
Allow me to elaborate: there are many many examples this season of things that happened which are kind of contrived but "works" if you are willing to make a certain read. Maddie's betrayal, Caitlyn decision to leave ambessa, Viktor's turn to the dark side, jinx's whole idea to leave, etc, etc. These are big character moments, pivotal in how it they act forward and impacts the plot but many of these moments can only make sense to the viewer if it remembers a vague passing line or retroactively interpret past events as signs of a change coming. It gives a plausible explanation, yes, but for such important moments, it feels unearned and even a little lazy, because it puts the weight of making sense of the story in the audience instead of the events showed.
For a show that relies or at least relied so heavily on character-focused storytelling it's not good if your character development comes in breadcrumbs, even if all the arguments are correct and is the most amazing arc ever. imagine if in avatar we get the moment when zuko reunites with iroh and it cuts after they look at each other and before zuko ask for forgiveness
This! It's so easy to dismiss criticism of vague storytelling because anyone can just say _"well it works if you read this specific subtext into it and make these specific assumptions."_ But the fact that SO MUCH of the story leaves things to subtext, and doesn't properly focus on key developments (to the point that many people were rightfully confused on what characters knew about in any given scene, and why they do what they do [beyond what get in breif montages]) creates issues with clarity. There are some things you just have to spend time explicitly building up in order for it to feel earned.
_"They didn't forget the conflict between Piltover. Didn't you see the look those people gave Sevika in the end?!"_ Yes.. And that tells us literally nothing, lol. We have no idea how Sevika even got into that seat (she must have been supported by some important topsiders to make it happen), and we have no idea what anyone else eon the council really thinks of her. It's too ambiguous, and it doesn't help that the story neglected to even give dialogue in Act 3, let alone a story that led to her getting a seat at the table. And I love Sevika!
This goes beyond the story "respecting their audiences ability to read into the subtext." They fundamentally don't explore several developments enough for them to feel cohesive and earned.
I doubt anyone can give me a believable answer as to what Jinx's actual big plan was in Act 1, beyond killing her sister. Was she intending to die herself? Was the smoke supposed to celebrate her victory? Why did she bring Sevika and Isha along? Did she not have any contingency plans? Is that why she teamed up with Sevika there? We don't know.. Which makes it hard to tell where precisely Jinx's mind was at that point.
S2 is a mess plot and themes wise, there is no defending it. No matter how amazing the art and animation is or how good ep7 turned out to be.
In a piece of media, theme is paramount and S2... forgot about that.
You hit the nail on the head. So much of this show's subplots feature a little bit of setup that gives you an idea of where they might go, and maybe it's touched upon in bits later on (but never enough to feel like true development), and then there's a big dramatic payoff that simply isn't earned because of the lack of development.
It's not that viewers "can't read between the lines"; we get the point of these subplots, but much of the show's development for them is done off-screen, forcing the viewer to do the heavy-lifting and invent their own head-canon (rather than the show taking its time to expand on said subplot/idea), which is just so infuriating.
As a result, when people say that the pacing is their "only" flaw with S2, yeah that might be true, but it's not a small one by any means, and it can ruin a show to some extent because of how it impacts the characters/story. If you need any proof of this, look to Game of Thrones Season 8, which is obviously far worse than Arcane S2, but in the same way, it was rushed and half-baked, thus exemplifying poor writing, feeling dissatisfying by the end.
Amazing video. I think it's my favorite one so far. It really is disappointing, because it feels like with just a little more editing, this could have been another near flawless show.
Almost every shot of the show is an insanely gorgeous piece of art, it's one of the most beautiful stories I've ever consumed
You cooked with this one, Pey.
Your thoughts were well spoken and honest. Which in turn resonated with me. I love Arcane and I enjoyed season 2. But I align completely with your critiques of season 2.
This video had a real feel to it. Didn't feel combative or argumentive. Just true expression.
Wow, well explained I just finished Arcane and loved it. Still I can see the flaws you articulated very well.
I think everyone’s problem with the final isn’t so much that it was bad by any means, but that it so clearly could have been flawless. Somehow through it’s pacing issues the second season in my eyes is still a 10/10 must watch, but when it had the potential to break the scale & ascend to the potential best show ever with just another 2 or 3 episodes, it’s hard not to be disappointed.
This is exactly how people feel. It's not quite disappointment but an intense longing to see true perfection because it felt so close. Unfortunately its hard to know if this was truly ever achievable. Christian has been open that they personally felt they had already spent too long on the show and there was a lot of burnout. I respect their decision to cut things just short of perfection.
@@mickevans6205 But wouldn't creating the perfect show be worth spending a couple more years on it? A masterpiece is a masterpiece forever. Having the literal best animated series of all time as part of your legacy is something you will benefit from for the rest of your life, and something the storytellers all around the world would benefit from endlessly as well.
Plus, they could've taken breaks or brought in some fresh writers to help with the workload. There are plenty of ways to work through burnout.
@@DLxxx I agree and I think it would be so cool if they did an extended cut for just this. But I also think they still made the right call all things considered. Most people don't share our view and just want content. Riot also needs their teams to move onto new content or the won't get to make more shows because they won't be profitable. Also I think they were very proud of what they had made and it's hard to know what perfection really is. At some point you have to say good enough and trust in what you've made.
@@DLxxx In Viktors wise words "there is no prize to perfection, only the end of pursuit"
Something about my feelings during the second season didn’t compare to how I felt watching the first. I loved it and it had so many amazing moments, but I think there was a lot to live up to and it just missed the mark in a lot of ways. It was hard for me to articulate a lot about how I felt, or why I felt that way, and this video did such an amazing job of saying all that out loud. Awesome video!
The thing with caitlyn turning on ambessa could also just be cait using her position to get what she wants, and not actually being fully fooled by ambessa. Caitlyn is a very smart person, and she can be very charismatic and is generally good under pressure, so she might have been more aware of what ambessa was doing and planning. Obviously she didn’t know she’d find Vi down there, but she had most likely planned on betraying ambessa at one point. Like I don’t think she was completely under her control, we can kinda see this in how she doesn’t want to directly attack the undercity. I like the idea that they were both playing each other a bit, just unsure of who pulled which strings
First season made more sense from a storyline and storytelling perspective. Prehaps. It was more than just a challenge. Ot was creative process and direction that didn't allow real Ideas to go circular and grow or come full circle. That always happens in stories.
I would've loved to have a longer act 3
personally, i feel like the first act still felt right like the first season was. grounded, but elevated stakes, the characters' emotional journeys were still front and center. episode 3 had an AMAZING climax, it was both a fight scene but a great emotional gut punch (literally). it felt just like arcane used to. it felt like the natural progression from the s1 finale events.
then act 2 happen...... and oh boy. the moment we started going into weird magic stuff i knew we're down a bad path. after that act i lost hope cause i knew no matter how good act 3 will be, they could never solve this mess in 3 episodes. and then they proceeded to waste an episode on an alternative timeline (cool idea but guys we have so much to deal with in the main timeline) and the finale was completely empty of emotional resolutions (except maybe viktor\jayce). ep 8 technically tied up what the entirety of act 1 built for, emotionally, with the jinx\vi\cait stuff and it didnt feel like they gave it too much attention.
Thank you for explaining so well :,) i loved most of the season, but the finale was most disappointing. It felt like they needed two more episodes. Also tho i understood why isha did what she did but i feel it was for nought
Yes. There is a lot of interesting themes to think about in season two. But it's definitely worse than season one. What I lacked the most was the focus season one gave even minor characters. Jericho (the undercity's chef) felt more like a character than Loris, Maddie and the fish-like enforcer combined.
Amazing video, disagree with a good amount of the stuff you bring forward but you explain why you feel that way well and highlight some very important inconsistencies. Like seemingly everyone else in the comments, my main issue is pacing and I do love the ending, but thanks for your input pey! :)
My issue with season 2 is that a lot of the core characters that made season 1 so phenomenal feel like they got a complete change of tone to them that season 1 ended up building for those characters. For example Jink to me in this season feels completely different than she did in season 1, like what happened to all of her schizophrenia, and hallucinations that she was going through in season 1, with all her trauma and stuff. Like yea she was seeing people like Silco in the jail cell, but compared to everything else in season 1 it might have only happened to her this season once or twice.Plus by the end of season 1 she accepted becoming Jink, and doing an act that seemed unredeemable like blowing up the council. It just feels very contrived from what her character was set out to be in season 1, and I feel like all of that went away this season.
She lost the voices when Silco died in S1. Go back and watch it.
I don't remember season one that much but didn't Jinx only start tweaking when Vi came back ? (I'm not sure) Only problem I have with her is in the finale, her biggest change yet happened off screen, she came back a whole new character. Idk why some ppl seems to be ok with this when they were annoyed that Vi and Jinx made up too quickly in act 2.
@@lockekappa500 I’m willing to go back and check again, but in my opinion it makes no sense for her too all of a sudden loose years of trauma with silco death, it actually should have gotten worse by season 2, but they just kinda brush it off. On top of all of that she accepted who jink was.
@@DanielDiaz-ix3yw I mean she tries to kill herself like 3 times in S2. I dunno if I'd call that losing all of your trauma. She just contains it differently.
Man, how did you just so perfecly express every single thought I had in my mind about season 2... that's crazy
I found the second season to be pretty dissapointing, its not only about pacing issues, the whole story falls flat on its face. The whole first season got murdered in the name of fan serving black rose content and some fucking world ending conflict with victor as its source, its just... Not good as a second season. Like, i really was looking up to second season exploring the conflict between two cities further, but we got like one episode of enforces doing police brutality, one scene of protestors getting jailed, and thats it. No more conflict. Now we focus on our mechanical jesus and the wacky adventures of noxians! Oh, and when at the last stand undercity citizens just agreed to cooperate with like no agency shown, its just... Infuriating
The whole last episode felt very cheap. Do you really need to structur it like bog standart superhero film last fight or what, it was just embarrassing
I'd argue that the pacing issues and the finale-ex-machina are actually one and the same issue. These writers have earned my absolute trust that they know how to tell a good story, but I feel like they were restricted by other conditions, and forced to rush the rest of the story into only a second season, when it really deserved at least a third. My understanding is that they were initially planning 5 seasons of Arcane, before it was was shortened and plans for the spinoffs were announced. (EDIT: I was mistaken about this. I'll clarify at the end.)
My thesis: I think that all of the plot elements that crowded this season (black rose, ambessa, viktor, warwick, etc) would have worked perfectly together, if only they had been given a third season to breathe.
With another season, you could explore the Piltover-Zaun conflict more deeply, have Ambessa and Victor become _complications_ in that conflict, rather than steamrollers of it. If given enough time, the Piltover-Zaun conflict can flow seamlessly into Viktor's shift from "disgruntled visionary, struggling to push the system to improve undercity lives," to "cult leader who has resolved to burn down the whole system in favor of a radical utopian solution." I mean, can we talk about how the relationship between Piltover and Zaun CREATED a world-ending-Viktor, just as it created Jinx in Season 1? Imagine an entire season devoted to exploring that truth, interrogating those conditions as his shift is gradually ongoing. They tried this here, but again it was just too rapid and bare-bones.
Ambessa and the Black Rose, too, could've not steamrolled the plot if only they had their own room to breathe. She could have been a new player on the political board, influencing the Piltover-Zaun conflict in a more complex and gradual way, with Mel and her fear of the Black Rose influencing her in return, in a series of delicious character-driven pushes and pulls, just as the writers demonstrated they could pull off with Jinx or the Firelights in S1. Something more nuanced and character-ful than a singular terrorist psyop and immediate authoritarian takeover that turns various complex factions into a united front against Pure Evil.
And in the end, she can still ally with Viktor to use him as a weapon after being denied control of Piltover and its Hextech, but it can be for reasons that arise from the evolving relationship between Piltover and Zaun, rather than JUST Caitlyn's decision to side with Vi and try to save her dad. With all the exact same elements, and just more time, you could have basically this same finale, but with a more fleshed-out background that ties it all in to the core themes of the show, rather than how narratively and thematically disjointed it is now.
I'd love to see Sevika joining the Council at a mid-point of the story rather than the end. I'd love to witness all the hard work and tense negotiation that has to go into repairing city relations, all of which is merely _implied_ by the show's ending. It could mark the point where things look like they might actually take a turn for the better, before an inevitable and irreconcilable conflict that drives Viktor and Ambessa to such drastic measures. Drama just like we saw in the first season.
Maybe what we got was a result of corporate influences restricting the show, or maybe it was the writers themselves wanting to save time for future projects they were excited about, and just underestimating how much time was needed to execute Arcane's story.
(EDIT: While Riot did "set aside enough funding for 5 seasons," that's totally separate from the actual plans of the creatives, who apparently had always planned on 2 seasons. So it was indeed the latter case of biting off more than the runtime could chew.)
In any case, I think this show is flawed but fantastic. It's affected me very powerfully, and has given me a huge amount of creative inspiration. It's gotten itself stuck in my head in the way good art does, both for its flaws and its successes.
Maybe I'll read or write some fanfiction about it. Maybe I'll write a dnd campaign to take a crack at that kind of story myself. I hope everyone else who was disappointed can turn that feeling into greater creative inspiration.
i get people’s disdain for the fast pace and the shift to bigger scope and conflicts. but all of the main cast had come full circle in beautiful character arcs by the end, and in the face of an existential threat like viktor and ambessa, i find it believable that the two cities would ally to fight him off. it was in both of their own self interests to avoid total annihilation. try watching some video analyses of the season, it might clear up some confusion from the fast pace, and hopefully you’ll find everything more satisfying
One criticism i would say about your analysis is that I don't think Jinx was well written in this season. I think contained within this season she was an interesting and dynamic character who had a gradual and well written progression, but she is so wholly distinct from the Jinx season 1 displayed that there was a sense of whiplash garnered by her near-instantaneous switch to sanity
Killing your "father" isn't an act that will fix you. It's typically a tipping point, one from which things will get worse. I'm not saying she should have gotten worse, but by the transition between seasons plus act 1 summarized what was a whole season's worth of growth
Note to mention the fact that Jinx as a character just utilized different mannerisms while speaking, and whose madness wasn't really even remotely a struggle in s2. In s1 she would use a lot of colorful phrases, with my favorite and probably the most deranged one being her telling Silco that you can't put sisters back in the baby maker. That magic was lost in her season to season transition, and that change wasn't earned
They were too ambitious.
They wanted to tell EVERYONE's story, which in the end resulted in all histories coming out undeveloped.
Act 1, when we should see the result of Jinx attack on the lower city, it was hijacked by Mel's mother. In both Act 1 and Act 2 we barely saw anything on the lower city.
Them there's Mel. Felt like she did nothing, just got on that "well" and somehow discovered everything there was to discover there, alone.
Also, Mel's mother plot and goal. Would be easier and more effective to not try to take over the higher city, just honest help and get Hex as reward.
Ekko should be that little thing pupil? Had I not paying attention I could not realize the somewhat one year jump in time after Vi and Cait split. During that time the series forgot to show us Ekko and that little thing together until the dream. There are times when it feels episodes are missing (including Cait one year oppression of the lower city and how it affected her).
And Viktor... really disappointing to see Arcane become an average mid 1990-2000 anime, obsessed with "human evolution".
That officer that betrayed Cait... we never got to know her.
edit: I can't stress this enough, on how many episodes Silco didn't appeared since he died? It's crazy!
For me it was Jinx's story line. They made it seem like she was going to be saved from her depression only to kill her off. It like no matter how hard your depression gets, you can overcome it. To see her die like she was trying to do over and over again just defeats the purpose of having someone like that. It is like no matter what it doesn't change the fact that she got her wish to die and didn't get to be redeemed and have another day to fight and instead became the "bad guy who is redeemed through death" trope. It's as if mental health issues are there just to be a thing that can't be helped, can't be worked through so give up. So I wouldn't recommend the last arc.
She does live, you can see her leaving before the explosion.
"There is no prize to perfection, only and end to pursuit". Convenient message, but it applies to the seasons of Arcane. "Season 1 was perfect, don't touch it!", but we don't want to end the pursuit. We want it to continue. And that requires sacrifice. That requires moving on. And there's so much beauty in moving on.
Wonderful video, I don't agree with everything, Arcane is still a 10/10 for me.
I do not agree with the statement: The end of her story felt very lackluster. If Jinx did something more grand, it would've felt forced. She needed to break this cycle, to leave quietly. Not to bring overwhelming victory.
I love how you talked about the main difference between the two seasons... Well, yes, season 1 had the perfect mix of carachters development and action, but even if I try to think logically, I always think that both the seasons are on the same level. I know is rushed and everything, but there are moments that really made me think about big life questions, it's been an amazing experience. My issue is that while I don't have any regrets on the first season, 'cause I think that for what it wanted to be it was absolutely perfect, for the second one I have the sad feeling that it could have been at least x4 times better than how it Is actually
to my understanding and what i’ve seen said online, the final episode was essentially meant to be a movie spanning an hour and a half and was asked by Netflix to be cut down. but, take that with a grain of salt!
This is a great video.(Until the title changed) I really appreciate the exploration of the ending while avoiding the trap of calling the show bad. Exploring the question of why something felt off to you and yet be seen as a masterpiece by others is a great topic and really appreciated. I love exploring real criticism that comes from a place of love rather than spiteful rhetoric.
0:21 I will say, I'm not sure I agree with calling the reception mixed. I think the number of people who have problems with the ending is much smaller than those who loved it if I'm going by IMDB, rotten tomatoes, and social media, as well as youtube discussions on it, the vast majority are praise. There are probably people who do have similars issues as those in the video, but are so enraptured by some other aspect of the show that they still highly rate it. Exploring what the disappointed side sees is very interesting especially when its as well thought out as this video.
2:13 Im very curious what tone S2 betrayed. The same themes are all present, the same conflicts are explored. S1 as a building season is able to spend all it's time asking questions without worrying about answers and so S2 must answer and conclude what S1 setup. S2 doesn't betray the tone it responds to it. The most tragic scenes all happen in S2, the most beautiful character moments come from S2, calling S2 Marvel or Avengers ignores episodes 1-7 and honestly several moments in episode 8 and 9. S2 does more than just touch on big concepts and dark moments, it structures the entire show around them because those moments are the response to S1.
4:07 S1 also has several characters that are mid ark. Ekko, Cait, Jayce, Mel, Victor, Heimer, JInx, Ambessa, and Vi are all mid arc when S1 ends. S1 does not end Jinx's arc it begins it. (it ends powder's arc) S1 uses side characters to satisfy the need for character arcs. Vander, SIlco, and Marcus are able to complete their arcs/stories so that s2 can conclude the other ones. In s2 now that the main characters are going through their arcs, side characters must must take a back seat.
4:39 The rocket is not the conclusion to the Jinx's arc it's the conclusion to SIlco's arc. His hatred for Piltover passed to the person he had the most influence over. Despite preaching about razing Zaun up all he has done is nearly ensured their destruction. His love for Jinx being the conduit that passes along his conflict to be carried out by Jinx at the end of S1 is great and I love S2 exploring this in Act 1 ep 2. If the show ended after S1 ep 9 it would be much worse for it.
4:59 I would have loved a more direct scene with Cait and Ambessa but I will say, I do like how the first scene we get after Cait follows Ambessa and Singed is one where Cait and Ambessa are sparing and talking about Noxian ideals. This, S1 Cait, and what happened in S2 act 1(Cait becoming isolated) tell me that all Cait needs is someone. It was Vi but it could have been Jayce if he was here, it could be her mother is she was till around to bring her back.
5:44 Maddies betrayal does put a lot of her actions in act 2 in new light and I appreciate that on re-watch. I do wish we got more screen time though. I do love that they trusted the audience would hate maddie enough to basically be 100% ok with her being a betrayer. Almost Every reaction I have seen on youtube and real life has been along the lines of "OH Maddie I knew it " and "Yes!" when she dies.
6:24 Yes, Jinx's arc completes in S2 and it's so good.
The Finale
8:05 We know the stakes, we saw ep 7 avoiding that future are the stakes. We know Ambessa is going to force their way through.
8:11 They are still using the hex gates to evacuate people. Noxians are about to lead a full attack, trying to defend a whole city is too much so evacuating citizens means less to worry about. Mel tells them what is coming with orb, and the noxians, she knows what is coming cause she goes to Ambessa to plea for her to stop. We don't need a scene where she explains things we already know.
8:29 Maddie wanted to hurt Cait. She wanted her to suffer. Also its way too risky to try and take her out now, Maddie knows how capable Cait is thanks to Ambessa. Why don't they die to the cannon? Yeah we could use a scene of them moving before the explosion but them showing up implies that happened and when your looking to save any second I see why it was cut.
They shouldn't be seperated, the whole point is to draw attention to them as a couple as close, that is necessary for the betrayal. Also Cait being so focused on Ambessa she misses Maddie's back stab(she stands behind her, i just really like that)
8:40 The last time he tried killing him it didn't work, so he goes for reason he tries to appeal to his humanity but it doesn't work because victor is masked. If Jayce believes that shutting down the hexgates will buy enough time for Ambessa to be defeated and backup to arrive before Victor can manually reactivate the hexgate then attacking him instead of shutting it down would be a waste.
8:53 I see this through identity. The zaunites that come to join piltover are giving up their Identity, themselves, to become a unified to become one. We see them die seemingly pointlessly because of this. We see Piltover losing, until Jinx and Ekko show up. Now it's not just Cait and Vi who have kept their identity it's all of Zaun here and the battle turns. Thematically I love it and I'll happily take the plot armor that comes with it.
9:15 Again is not just join as one against bad. Victor is coming to wipe out who we are. Giving up who you are to try and defend it is not the way to stop this. I would love more scenes emphasizing this but the contrast between their deaths and Zaun joining scream this message at us.
10:08 We are super attached to Ambessa. The show does a phenomenal job building upon her short s1 introduction. Her death is a consequence of her actions, its poetic/thematic. The fight with cait and Mel is bursting with symbolism. It's easily in my top 5 arcane moments. The thematic connections between her and Silco are wonderfully set up and executed I wish we got a scene with them.
10:22 Already kinda covered this Maddie and Ambessa want to punish Cait. Is it cliche sure, but it's in service to their characters. Ambessa is the decoy, she doesn't actually need to break through. She just needs to draw attention. A public execution here works to show that Piltover doesn't win by zaun joining them and becoming enforcers it wins by having Zaun keep their identity
10:28 Subjective view on magic in fiction nothing to really say. I do like how S1 set up mages as this terrifying force and Piltover being built to escape it and then S2 pays that off with the black rose. The irony of a pillar of Piltover being a mage is also really great. Complaints about magic in the show called Arcane do feel a little strange but to each their own.
10:47 None of this is important. In a world where Jayce got teleported across the globe in episode 2, and we travelled to different dimensions, nit picking Mel's abilities when they are pretty clear she manifest light in some way and that's all that really matters. I think wanting a full explanation of how magic works at this point is kinda strange since why would anyone in a city of no magic users know how it works. But it's fair to not enjoy shows that have this kind of magic.
10:53 She goes down to confront Ambessa, Loris while she is on the way. We see her coordinating the defense (fox) before confronting her mother to become the wolf. It's done for thematic reasons not empty ones. Deus ex machinas don't have this much going on (Oh the irony if her powers are actually tied to the aspects). Her powers don't come from nowhere, her powers are what is driving Ambessa. Mel's powers tie so well into her S1 set up of never feeling like a Medarda and S2 pays it off once again.
11:14 the z drive is destroyed as a consequence of going too far back. oh and that is how Jayce is able to finally reach Victor. There is so much going on in that sequence I don't have time to get into it.
11:37 the other option was to give in. Accept what victor is showing him, let him remove conflict from this world. But he's seen something better, he knows how hollow Victor's promise is. He's seen a world where conflict is resolved and what that can bring and throws it in Victor's face.
12:17 It's not just a big fun happy finale, I covered some of the reasons why above and there is much more that I haven't touch on
12:38 Them showing up after Piltover fails is thematically necessary. I covered identity above already.
12:48 Scenes like this are in service to the characters/themes of the show
I think the 4 of my top 5 episodes come from S2, not just for the animation but all the care they put into those characters and the writing that went into setting up their themes. I love that almost no scene in S2 is just what is happening on screen and can be traced back to moments in S1.
I love videos like these cause thinking about S2 beyond "it's amazing I love it" really help me understand what makes this show so great.
Wholeheartedly agree, it's easy to not think too deeply about what you're watching and dismiss things that dont seem to make sense or dont follow expectations and that's fine, you don't need to put every show under a lens, but arcane is filled with so much nuance and everything shown is done with intention, it's an invitation to the viewer to engage with the product and the act of understanding it is rewarding on its own, if everything was spelled out the show wouldn't be as good as it is
Also a lot of the things are missable with how much this season is trying to juggle and I feel like a second viewing would've answered a lot of his questions and concerns already
Your comment definitely deserves more attention
Heimerdinger is not the same person as in Season 1. He got assassinated harder than Luke Skywalker.
that is called character development, so close!
@@ThiagoSilva-gb2ivno need to be a passive aggressive asshole. especially when heimerdingers character WAS ASSASSINATED. Yeah, he has his character development, but that’s after his character has already been assassinated. Heimerdinger was turned into a comedy puppet in act 1, wasn’t present for act 2, finally gets some meaningful moments in act 3, and then is killed in such a CONVENIENT and boring way. Frankly their handling of his character was executed very poorly in season 2.
@@pd7484 Idk, for me he went a whole arc from apathy "I did everything I could" to activity "I still can help" with help of Echo in days, while being at peace for 3 years. He is a near immortal being, 3 years is a blip for him, yet Echo manages to change his life IN DAYS. Hence his phrase before disappearance "Since I've met you lad, I've truly lived". He had little time, but in that time he changes himself and helps to form other crucial craracter. Are you sure you don't ask too much?
Also, he is very much alive and I'm *absolutely* sure will be in future Runeterra projects.
@@shipso6116 I don't think so, personally. It’s not too much to ask for Heimerdinger to resolve his conflicts with Jayce and Viktor. He never made things right with them, and the tension between him and Jayce is only briefly alluded to. It's also insane that he never gets to react to Jinx's rocket, or learns about the attack on the memorial. He doesn't even learn about the Enforcers gassing the streets of the undercity, which could've been a key event in giving him the perspective he needs to be a better leader.
Similarly, Ekko never really calls him out for his negligence, or his role in Piltover and Zaun becoming the mess of conflict it is today. He was there from the beggining. He would've known that the undercity was festering in the toxic mines and Piltovers run-off waste.
I agree with almost every point made in this video! I saw someone comment either on this video or somewhere else that this show should've been 3 Seasons, with S2 Ep6 acting as the S2 finale, and I feel like that would've helped the show immensely. We didn't get nearly as much time to develop many characters and relationships as we really needed, and that sucks. That's partly the writers' fault and partly the Netflix executives who made the writers cut out hours of ideas they already had cooking (like 30-60 minutes of Ekko and Jinx talking before the big fight in the final episode). If this show was 3 seasons, it would have been much better than it was, but it didn't. Even though I totally agree with basically this entire video, I can see all the flaws that Arcane had, and I know it's not a perfect show, I could not care less. This is probably my favorite show/piece of media I've ever seen and I'm so insanely happy that it got made and not canned like it almost did 9 years ago. (Also thanks for putting my first comment in the video!)
HOLY SHIT UR THE GUY WHO MADE THE ATRIOC COFFEE COW SONGS
for me Arcane season 2 feels extremly character driven. Each "main" character has a fullfilling story arc that expands on the character and shows growth.
and there are a lot of main characters: jinx,vi,mel,caitlyn,Jayce,ekko,ambessa,Heimerdinger,Sevika,Viktor,Warwick,Singed,isha and a few smaller roles.
i can look at each of these names and can see the story line and growth they had in that season.
adding for each one a full story arc and combine them (ok except ekko they just stuffed it all in 1 episode) was very impressive from my point of view.
"a hundred good ideas squezeed into a small 9 Episode box" summarizes this quite well
I really appreciate this take on what season 2 was. I really loved your point about expectations because ultimately that's what drives how we view/consume media. I also fully agree with the points you made. Masterfully crafted video and commentary man, keep it up !
This video eloquently describes exactly how I felt about the finale of Arcane.
Lately I've been loving scamboli reviews as his videos for me are the revival of back when DouchebagChocolat was making videos.
Your latest video essays are scratching the itch that gigguk used to back when he still dropped video essays rather than focusing on trash taste / streaming etc.
Great video, I hated the finale the first time I watched it. But then once I knew it was as good as it was ever going to get I rewatched the whole second season, appreciating what it was rather than what it could have been, and it's still among the best television ever produced, just not quite up there with season 1. But I don't think anything ever could be. Overall, I'm happy with it
After this all, I think it's good to appreciate the media, there's many amazing things about season 2 and it deserves the credit. On the other hand, respecting each other's opinions goes a long way, criticism is valid perhaps subjective but it helps the creator's out. True, am I bummed out they didn't execute this season 2 flawlessly, its not like there's no hope now, the creator's still respect us, and they're taking this into the next show, this is all a learning process
How exactly would you describe this "What it could have been"? What wouldve made the show better? Genuinely curious because as far as I'm concerned, they've done an outstanding job with this series from start to finish.
Arcane was originally going to be 5 seasons. They compressed it down to 2 and are developing other shows with that budget. That why pacing and character development took a hit.
Did anyone else not really care about the Mel plot line? I would’ve liked it if they just cut that or shortened it and expanded on some of the other things like Ekko/Jinx, Viktors evolution, Vi/Jinx relationship, etc.
When the final battle happened, I was expecting it to be realistic in the sense that, real battles aren’t won last minute. When the tide is so far gone one way, the losing side doesn’t really come back and turn things around. The “we’re on the cusp of losing but still somehow win” is such a cartoonish concept so I ended up being surprised when I saw it heading that direction.
Personally these tone shifts didn’t bother me. I noticed them but Arcane already showed it would give plot armor to certain characters. I already expected certain characters to live but I do think they pushed it with how so many people survived horrible explosions without any real harm. In Season 1, Ekko was hurt despite tanking an explosion that nearly killed Jinx. It was plot armor but at least the writers pretended like it hurt him lol
This vid was beautiful brother
I haven't even finished the video yet but CAN WE JUST TALK ABOUT THAT TRANSITION AT 3:46 LIKE OH MY GOD
Season two had to tell instead of show in order to communicate the story. This is why season one felt more character motivated, whereas season two felt more plot driven
Season 2 didn't HAVE to tell instead of show. It chose to. Nothing was forcing them to make the story less character-driven, and the focus on plot above character only served to weaken the genuineness Season 1 cultivated. It feels much more like modern Hollywood slop at several points, specifically because they chose to de-emphasize character and not let developments breathe.
I very much loved the entire show, though I do still have major issues. I remember the moment Jayce gave his whole 'we have to put aside our differences and work together' speech and disappointedly thinking "oh really we're doing this?" and from then on I don't think it really stopped feeling like marvel movie. There's some stuff you mentioned I don't really mind (my interpretation with ekko and the time limit was the negative affects were limited to the things around him so if the only things around him were mindless enemies then there'd be no problem if they got messes up in the process), but yeah it didn't really fell like the same thing
Maybe the best way to put it is while I did enjoy the entire season including the last act, I don't think I'm *satisfied* with it. There's almost nothing I'd consider outright bad, and there was never a moment I wasn't having good time or wasn't hooked, but there's very little I can look at and think "I really like how that concluded" or "I'm glad this is where that ended up". And I know there will be more content in the same universe but I have no idea what form that'll take so for now I'm just charging Arcane as a finished product and not as an entry in a larger universe.
My thoughts still aren't fully solidified. There's things I loved and disliked that haven't changed since first watch but also some things I've changed on both positively and negatively and things that I'm still going back and forth on in my head.
Overall though, glad this show exists and I'm cautiously optimistic about what comes next
Thank you for sharing this. I feel like there’s so much to talk about with this show and how it handled its second season, but as a 15 minute synopsis of my feelings on it…this video explains it pretty well.
THIS. THIS IS HOW I FEEL
Season 2 of arcane had a variety of problems but to me, every single one of those problems was a direct result of them not having enough time. Im so confident that with another season, or even just another 3 episodes, all of these issues would've been fixed because they couldve taken the time to set up the tonal shift
season 2 felt like it could shirk on the things that season 1 meticulously set out, and ultimately lost a lot of my respect for that very reason. all i wanted was conversations, emotional dichotomy, a moment to sit in everything, but it's so entirely wrapped up in itself and its need to further include more league of legends points as opposed to working around what they already had, that while i can understand what they were going for, its made a poorer piece of media for it as a whole. had season 2 ended with act 2s finale i think we wouldn't need to have to be so harsh on it, but that's not what we got. what could have been, indeed. really love your videos, thanks for sharing.
Its weird that I recognised all these flaws while watching the show, but I still loved it so much and is still my favourite show of all time. I usually hate convenience and unexplained shit like this but I did not care this time for some reason
THIS. thank you. completely agree, i feel like they had so many fantastic character choices but so little time to show them make and come to terms with those choices. so many decisions required rewatches to make sense because everything's so quick you literally might miss it if you blink.
and the conflict between zaun and piltover? yeah. enemy ex machina, we get a temporary alliance and no actual progress. so many conflicts feel like, instead of getting solved, they just fall away and are declared irrellevant. oh, cait's a dictator? nah, vi needs her so she'll just. stop that. will they talk about it? nah.
god, what could have been. i truly feel like i wanted a third season just so that season 2 could have had time to deal with everything it set up.
This feels to me like the whole Black Panther experience. It was such a novel thing with an ending that was also a lackluster marvelfest, but it was still a very shifting experience for me.
I think the reason why I personally liked it was because it did NOT fulfill my expectations. Just like you said, I was expecting something a bit more lighthearted but was surprised when it touched on darker themes. This is of course very much based on personal preference but that's why Arcane and Media averting expectations is something very special at least for me.
Art becomes itself most true when it is flawed. Which is no excuse, just something to think about.
I emphatically disagree with your point that we were given no insight into Caitlyn's perspective when she was about to betray Ambessa. Her reintroduction in act 2 and pretty much every scene since we see her at odds with Ambessa, but willing to work with her for the unpleasent things she feels she needs to do. You can't even say it is never made explicit, since she does say outright that neither of them TRUST each other.
My point here is that Arcane is a layered show, and the second season seems more determined to make this facet of it part of the experience, so it will take a while for us as a fandom to digest it, and I personally think this is a strength of the show.
I agree with most of your points. I have to point out that when Ekko uses the Z drive past the 4 seconds mark (11:30) you can actually see the robots around him explode and he's incredibly struggling too, as if he's experiencing some kind of physical pain. But yes, it still feels a little bit too convenient. Overall I think Ekko, Jayce and Viktor had the most complete arcs this season.
My biggest gripe was the cutting of content that would have added even more story (mostly cut content ekko and jinx) of course. 60 minutes of content that was just taken out due to time that I feel like should really have been left in and they just make a compromise instead of taking it out completely because even if it worked alright without it. It always felt like something was missing between them like there was supposed to be more. Of course pacing was a hit off and ending did not feel satisfactory in a ways. But while it is flawed it is and always will be one of the most amazing and enjoyable things I have ever watched and I am excited to see more and them hopefully bringing some of the characters back for different stories even tho it felt like we were robbed of some good stuff this season fr
Perfectly encapsulates everything I felt about this incredible show. It's not that I didn't love it, I did. I do.
But 'what could have been' indeed.
I understand and agree with much of what you said, but in the case of Ekko being able to go back further without causing a major consequence it is easily explained.
All thanks to Heimer who worked on the time machine to increase its capacity. So much so that if it were otherwise, Ekko would never have been able to leave the other timeline and come to this one.