Hey everyone! For those interested in FFXIV Machinima I started a series a while back that I think everyone will enjoy! If you're interested here's the link! ► th-cam.com/video/ebWUGMdQqG8/w-d-xo.html
ARR: Mommy! HW: Uh...mom? Couldn't you have helped out a bit earlier? SB: *The number you have dialed is no longer in service* ShB: Mom is super sus now, it's better she just stay away. EW: Mommy!
I always feel so sorry for Meteion. She wasn’t built for what she encountered out in the cosmos. She never stood a chance. Of course she broke as hard as she did.
a young child who shakes if people speak too loud near her one moment and then next moment suddenly has MULTIPLE APOCALYPSES across the universe and the memories of all their mournful dead downloaded directly into her head. thats horrible.
Venat is such a well-written strong female character. Strong yet feminine and motherly, her character oozes natural charisma and confidence that's rarely seen nowadays without all the tropes being shoehorned in.
What's weird to me is that she didn't have much screen time in the entire game, but the writing for her is just so good that you can barely see or feel any flaws with her.
When u look at venat and M there stories are the same in ways one saw despair and the othe chose fight despair but she aslo caused it Such a well written storyline and useing Answers to make a perfect finish
I always try to respect opinions, but whoever wrote in chat that Answers ruined the scene's mood...is just so wrong. Lol. Edit: I also had a similar reaction to you first time I saw this. Just kinda sat for a bit, then the first word out of my mouth, "Fuck". Now finally understanding why all the shit that happened, happened. In ShB, Emet painted the Ancients to be this perfect society living in a perfect world. We saw some hints of it in the Tempest, and it can be debated, that maybe they were. But in EW, we begin to see flaws, especially in the talks with Hermes. Then you begin to piece together that this society that is so "perfect", bred a people that simply could not deal with hardships, despite being so powerful. When faced against the Final Days, they turned to sacrifice. When they tried to bring back the ones they sacrificed, they sacrificed even more of their own. Even though they are physically more powerful than their sundered counterparts, I saw that they lack the mental fortitude to endure the harshness of reality, of life. Just my thoughts. This expansion really had me thinking for weeks after I finished it. Small details, nuances, maybe overthinking some points too. All good stuff. Great video.
Answers was always a big thing and we didn't know it until now, answers to their question why given life, are they mean to suffer?, yes.... answer is brutally well done.
Man, the "Answer me" line during Venat dragged her body into the deeper darkness is like the lamentation of the people she walked past earlier. That shit is so real and true
Yeah that dude couldnt have been more wrong. Wrong on every level, the tune, singing, rhythm, meaning, all fit. Answers IS the scene and the mood! This is the original context of answers.
@@jennystpierre5501 Also remember that this likely happened not long after Azem had disagreed with the Convocations decision to summon Zodiark and left in protest. While the timespan is unknown, there can not have been long between that moment and Emet having to say goodbye to Hythlodaeus...and we don't even know if Azem and Emet ever met up again before the sundering, so this may very well have been the last Emet saw of both his friends for a very, very long time.
A "blink and you miss it" moment, when Hyth turns around, you can see his expression change to fear and sorrow at having to go through with it. But at the same time there's also resignation, because deep down he knows it's the only way he can truly help Hades end the Final Days.
WoL and the gang: Gadanggit Hermes look what you up and did, you dun gave it anxiety. And now wants to murder everything. Hermes: "hold on she may have a point." WoL and the gang: "wat."
Jokey comment aside. Whether this story was planned 10 years ago with 1.0 and ARR ver baitum or at least blueprint to EW or recently crafted up. Giving the song Answers new meaning with its lyrics and centering it now to amurots final days is top tier story telling. Even adding the lyrics into venats speach gave me literal chills. Literally so good.
@@ToxisFaux I think they said in an interview that they didn't plan this from the start. The writing team needs to be given the credit due for being able to pull together the threads and tie everything off with a nice bow like they did
@@zennok I remember in an interview around Heavensward release (aka 3.0) Yoshi-P said they had the story laid out up to 6.0 (aka Endwalker) It obviously doesn't go all the way back to 1.0, since firstly, it wasn't Yoshi-P, and secondly, it started as mostly a cash grab by Squeenix that went south. And I don't think it could've started with 2.0 since Yoshi-P was in full "gotta fix this shit until people actually like it. We'll deal with the future later" Still, knowing they already thought out all the stuff we've seen in EW back when we were fighting dragons is crazy. And if you keep that in mind, you can remember certain parts of the early story that already hinted towards this. The one example I always go back to is in Praetorium, the t̶a̶l̶k̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ monologue you listen to in the elevator ride, Gaius is already hinting at things you found out in Shadowbringers
It was pointed out in a Pyromancer steam that Hythlodeaus name means something and I thought it was most appropriate here. 'He who speaks of nothing', the way he tricks Hermes into thinking he's going to open the confluence is perfect
No, it's pretty clear Emet DOES want us to kill him even without remembering this. There's a REASON he was 'testing' us over and over, as he said, living whole lives as one of us and having family with us and everything...he WANTED us to be good enough, he wanted it to end. He was sad and tired. But he just couldn't bring himself to give up his duty, or give up on his friends. In the end, he lured you to Amaurot specifically so that you would kill him if you were able, and if you were able then he could FINALLY be satisfied ENOUGH to let go and get his rest. He admits he tested us countless times and "found us wanting"...and there's no reason for him to have tested us except that he wanted to stop.
Or the more obvious take was when Emet correctly rejected Meteions gift of oblivion and identified that Hermes reasoning (a repetition of the Ancients argument for culling their creations) was sophistry bullshit... That's also funny cause Hermes also rejects the argument, he doesn't believe it but it's an acknowledgment of how the Ancients have structured their societal purpose. Emet lived thousands of years pursuing an agenda rationalised on an argument he knows is full of shit. Which explains why he did the "testing", he wasn't convinced of the argument. And ever single rejoining invalidated the argument more and more.
Not sure what your saying 'No' to here. I never disagreed with this. I theorized during this zone that Emet and the gang all would fulfill a plan in the future to fight the Final Days and that everything we went through with the Ascians up to that point was all a massive strategy to defeat the final days once and for all. That ended obviously not being correct as Hythlodeus and Hades both lost their memories. Otherwise your 'no' makes no sense as I already believed he wanted us to kill him and even after this moment I acknowledged Hades' desire for it was a subconscious imprint from the memories lost to Kairos. So I No to your 'No' XD
This is actually an interesting thought. Every time, bar one, Emet found us wanting. Perhaps it was because we were not perfectly unsundered like he was, but maybe it was because he wanted to see if we were strong enough to put him out of his misery, which in the end, we were. He doesn’t need to remember Elpis, as the WoL is already a proven Ascian killer by then. While he won’t just lie down and accept death, there was at least some releif when he lost; that he can finally rest after carrying the burden of his duty to “awaken his bretheren from their dark slumber” for some odd 12000 years.
Hahaha yeah me too, and the "great silence" among other things. Meteion's answer is one of the theories on the paradox actually that intelligent life/civilziations perish eventually.
I believe the scene with Venat walking thru the time have stronger impact if you have played the game longer. For years, veterans to the game were swayed back and forth with Hydaelyn and her intent. Between those years, our feelings towards her gravitated gradually towards betrayal. And all those negative feelings we have accumulated over the years were thrown back to us in the face after learning the truth of her sacrifice.
I've been playing since 2.0 and I never really thought she betrayed us or anything. Oh, I did have my doubts, especially after 5.0, but ultimately all I wanted was to actually get her perspective on things... and boyyyy did we get it... lol
Possibly, I cannot speak to the difference of impact/severity. All I can say is I was impacted on the same level that draws out tears in a normal individual, I just don't cry very easily. I think it comes from the life I've lived. I've watched friends (in the most genuine and literal sense of 'watched') friends die from cancer, I've been attacked by predators and injured and I've had to bury many loved ones. When I was younger dealing with those things I cried and cried and cried, but with consistent exposure to such things as well as just getting older I've grown a tendency not to display sadness. With the exception of course being when I'm reminded of my hardest moments irl. I say all this as I assume you made this comment because I did not cry as you yourself did in this scene or as others have and so that you have more context as to 'why?' other than my time investment and game-veteran status as an emotional investment meter.
Because she didn't betray. We've known since ARR that she's running on fumes. Struggles to even be heard by people. And yet, still, when the chips are down she acts to save people. Minfillia didn't incarnate on the first with the power to halt the flood out of some cosmic coincidence. Hydaelyn sent her there with that power and for that purpose. And that's not counting the number of times she just straight up saves your life directly. We'd have never even made it through ARR without her personal favor and protection. And we're supposed to think she bad because... What, she's a primal? Like Ysayle? Because she wasn't always 100% upfront and truthful with us? Like most of the scions? Her actions and sacrifices make plain her motives, even if you might find her means dishonest. I got into a number of arguments in the days leading up to EW. What has she done that was actually evil? Sundering the world? How can you know that's bad? Because Emmet Selch, destroyer of civilizations, said so? Why take his word for it in the first place? Even if you think Highly of the guy*, even he started to see the merit in the world we were trying to protect. Otherwise, why fight us at all? We were dying- he could have literally fucked off to another shard and won just by waiting. Instead, he has a single final battle with you, to the victor goes the future, by his own words (paraphrasing). * which I don't. He doesn't even consider people like the WoL and their comrades to even *be* people- which is how he justified multiple acts of wide scale genocide. And yes, the Ascians rejoining efforts resulted in *many* civilization ending calamities, explicitly so, including the flood of light on the first. While I understand his motives, and even applaud his resolve, I cannot condone his actions because doing so mean agreeing that the lives of those living right now are meaningless compared to the lives of those long dead.
As a veteran myself, I strongly disagree. They wrote her up as this powerful force that helps only when things are most dire. In return, she leaves it up to the WoL to determine which is the best course of action. Being given the space to make thy own decisions is a sign of trust, knowing full well that they may fail, only to rebound and try again. To be honest, it says more about the personal self and the unwillingness to sit and think about what's actually happening without judgment coming in and having the first and final say. It bespeaks a mind unwilling to see the information as it conflicts with what one feels to be true.
Also I would add when she expends power for the sake of WoL like Pretorium, shielding us from Ultima ... and probably not just us ... but other WoL through history
It was incredibly important we had to spend time with Venat. Hydaelyn was ever the enigmatic figure from the beginning of our journey. We got to form a bond and understood her as a character and not a far off divinity of light. She had feelings, she had personality, she had hopes. She was a friend, mentor and like a mother. And to let her go when the time came.
The emet that saved us against Elidibus is just a shard of his being he left in Azem's crystal to be of help to his friend if he ever get their hand on said crystal, that's why it appears as just a phantom like those he created and dissipate instantly
What always hits me is Hythlodaeus just giving Emet a casual 'see you later' wave, knowing he's about to walk off to go sacrifice himself, and just that split second of fear on his face when he turns away, and Emet doesn't see it but he knows it's there but all he can do is stand there and watch him go, because we *all* know how it ends.
One person said in chat that Answers ruined the mood of the major custscene... ... ... That cutscene was what Answers was always about, how could it ruin it? This is literally what the song always meant. Some have tried to claim it was the launch song, it's NOT. It was the shutdown song and Yoshi was already in charge by then and they already had the direction of the game mapped out. This wasn't a new meaning for the song. It was THE meaning of the song since day one.
Actually, Answers was in the game since the first opening scenes of 1.0. th-cam.com/video/ksuoipNWKWs/w-d-xo.html Here is the Limsa opening on the boat for proof. So yeah, it wasn't really the shutdown song, it was in the game before that. Whether its meaning was the same or not is unknown.
It seems that she tries to help all the Warriors of Light throughout the ages but doing so also spends her strength. There was a period where Midgardsormr removed the Blessing of Light (which is the thing that keeps people safe from Ascians and primals) so that Hydaelyn can save some strength.
I find it interesting that this scene depicts a crossroads for Venat. She tried to convince her brethren to move on, accept the loss, and grow stronger for it. But the fervor with which they prayed for a return to normalcy, emphasis on RETURN, so much so that they would sacrifice another 50% of the remaining half of humanity to do so, showed her that the temptation would always be too strong to resist. So she sundered her own people and Zodiark himself so that they would never again have the capability to wish the world, those in, and no longer in it back. She could accept that Zodiark was necessary to save the world, but as soon as folks started considering sacrificing even more people just to have their bit of paradise back, it was a step too far. Its a pity; imagine if the Ancients had learned to grow from the End Days, and where we would be now as an Unsundered people.
I recommend people revisit the Elpis story. Because everything discussed is really important and in the initial moments they may miss the narrative connections made. Especially with Hermes. When he chains the crew he does it directly after Emet announces the most hypocritical statement made in his eyes, "who are you to judge us?", our entire experience in Elpis is judging the fitness of "lesser" beings, some that are even cogniscient of their own survival and impending deaths, and the crew shrugs it off like its nothing. Then when the shoe is on the other foot they flip the script... Hermes said 'fuck that, learn to live for the world and not just yourself and you'll be fine, it'll be depressing but I'm depressed and I rejected my daughters suicide offer'. Ancients were like "... no, I don't think I will" And the summoning of Zodiark is even more egregious after learning how they approach their own deaths. They see it as a return of blood to the planet they borrowed it from... until their existence is threatened and they decide "no, I think we'll dump 50% of the population into this god we thought up, actually make it 75%, actually fuck the rest of the world cause we'll kill it to bring back our friends". The whole structure died because they couldn't deal with their familiars with sentience transforming into Terminal Beasts due to fear and loathing they have of their Ancient masters. Once you start peeling layers back devoid of the initial wow factor, it's pretty good
The Meteia's intentions went beyond just threatening the Ancients' existence. All life on Etheirys, period, was going to be choked out and not allowed to return. It was abomination to the Ancients' views, because even returning to the star wouldn't be granted; they would be cut off, and the planet die as more and more life was snuffed out until it was a barren, inhospitable rock.
@@BlazeIgnitus True, but that's because her and Hermes' philosophical positions aren't the same. Hermes is nihilistic and anti-anthropocentric, meaning that he doesn't see an inherent meaning to life and wants to find one and he believes that mankind shouldn't prioritize themselves over their created creatures. The Meteia, on the other hand, are straight up anti-natal. They believe that to exist is inherently to suffer, and that it would be better for nothing to exist at all. The difference in their views is why Hermes ultimately decides against going with Meteion. While he loves her and respects her conclusion, he still hopes that her test will spur mankind to develop a reason for living. But if mankind can't find a reason for being, Hermes is willing to accept the Meteia's judgement and end it all to prevent further suffering.
When I first watched this I didn’t realize the hits she took while walking in the void-like space were calamities. At least that’s what someone told me they were.
then she should have been hit 7 times. Its more like symbolizing how much "blood" she has on her hands with all the suffering she created by sundering everyone as she technically did start all the bloodshed yet cant prevent or help humans in solving it. But still keeps moving (its just black because of PG rating ect)
There is a theory called "Dead Space" which believes that the reason why we couldnt make any contact with other sentient lifeforms is because they are all dead. We are still alive because we havent reach "the threshold" yet, and no one knows what "the threshold" is. It can be a disease from space, higher lifeforms, cosmic anomalies, environmental collapse, internal conficts that lead to mass extinction of life, etc. There are scary stories about "Dead Space" as well. FFXIV took this theory and made it into the main plot of EW pretty much the game Dead Space.
The one thing that makes this scene so deep is that line of amon when he says that In forgetting all he actually did was etch the memory unconsciously on the soul
My SO didn't cry at this part either, but I could tell she felt it. I think this will hit differently for everyone, being that we each have experienced loss in different ways.
You need to get control of your chat. Nothing is worse than people telling you what you’re going to feel before you get to a section of the game. “Prepare to cry” is not helpful and leads the streamer to anticipate something.
the worst part is that Meteion didnt arrive at the conclusion life has no meaning. the conclusion she arrived at is that the meaning of life is to end. that living beings are meant to suffer then die, then be reborn, suffer more and die again, in an endless cycle of pain. and that's why she wants to kill/unobrn Ehteirys. because she loves us and wants to spare us that pain that comes inevitably before death. spare us from loneliness, and sorrow, and despair, and embrace death. that's what hurts the most. even then, completely broken by all the thinsg she's seen, all the horrors she's *felt*, she's still acting out of kindness. still a glimpse of that little Meteion in a garden of flowers picking up Axolotl with WoL. and as someone in chat mentionned as you were going through it : poor Meteion. as an empath, facing existential dread... and when it was only Hermes near her, it made her feel pain, can you imagine what i t must have been like for her when it's not 1 being, but an entire planet worth of despair ? i just wish we could give her a headpat, and tell her it's all going to be ok >.
And welcome to the moment where, after many times thinking the plot just got real, it truly all comes together. We've been listening to Answers for a decade now, but we didn't know the question. Now we do, it is Venat's answer to Meteion.
The only other story I can think of offhand that used the "surrounded by dead ends" concept was an old webcomic called "A Miracle of Science" by Jon Kilgannon and Mark Sachs.
What you don't get is that Emet was never evil. He just wanted to rejoin the worlds and bring back his people no matter the cost. Had he remembered this moment, he probably wouldn't have done that and attempted instead to stop Meteon. He wasn't an evil crazy guy...just had a different goal than the player, which put him at odds with you only to fall in the end.
Sacrificing all the lives that were born that weren't the originals, to bring back those who existed before, is pretty damn evil, I'd argue. As he said in the cutscene when you first tell him of what you experienced in your personal past, and his and Venat's future, to forcibly sacrifice the lives that the people who willingly gave themselves sought to preserve, spits on their actions, their sacrifice.
The Emet-Selch that is during the Seat of Sacrifice is only a memory preserved in the crystal of Azem, so it would have nothing to do with the soul regaining lost memories. As Emet-Selch himself created that crystal long after the events at Ktesis.
when he mentions 40k at 32, he seems to forget the tyranid hypethesis, that the milky way galaxy is surounded by other dead (eaten) galaxies, and the possibility, that something even scarier is hunting the tyranids...
Hermes to Metion: Divide this by zero please! Metion: *BOOM* Thou must live, die and know at the end of the song had me thing about Emet as if it was directed at him personally. Also the moment with Emet Selch... when i saw Venat walking towards him i had to think about that cutscene where he saw one of his within you and "No, it cannot be"... i kinda feel he saw Venat there.
Personally, I like to think that when he saw us back in SHB, he was seeing us as the Azem he once knew, but that's just me. Though I do also love the idea that Venat/Hydaelen was helping us take another step forward, even as it wounded herself deeply in the process.
Not ppl expecting everyone to bawl their eyes out through the entirety of EW. I guess I’m one of the minority who didn’t cry once. I felt very sad just as you did. It takes a lot to make me cry for real too. I’m happy that the game managed to make people cry. I did however cry about Emet-Selch during Shadowbringers. That shit hurt 🥺
It looked to me like a check-up question rather than enforcing an expectation. They started with "How are you feeling?" before saying "You didn't cry.", so they probably wanted to know his thoughts about the scene. Crying is a really easy way to tell what one thinks, but he stood very serious throughout most of it, so it was kinda difficult to figure out how much or how little he liked it.
@@Eelanos My apologies I guess??? I've been seeing comments like these all over and I'm not sure how animated people want me to be. I guess I need to hold up a sign every time I'm affected based on the confusion. I do speak to how the scene affected me, I just don't go on for an hour about it and I suppose people think I don't care because of that which in and of itself confuses me.
@@Asmogan Nah, no apologies needed at all. I'm just saying, the guy that commented "How are you feeling? You didn't cry" on the chat probably had no ill will nor did he want to imply that you *had* to cry. He was probably asking just to know your opinion on the scene.
I don't understand the one person in chat thinking "Answers" ruined the mood of the cutscene, read the lyrics and it's pretry clear the song was always about this event, the music has gravitas, the lyrics have meaning, and the tone is both hopeful yet solemn. This was the path we had to walk to find the answer to Hermes' question
The chat in the stream (on the video) is so bad i wish I could turn it off just to be ignorant of it, literally just full of people spoiling stuff or quoting dialogue that is going to be said in a cutscene 2 minutes later. what is wrong with these "look at me" sort of people
Has Hades really fallen? If Emet was tasked with preserving Etherys by the means of killing billions of familiars, he’d do it now still. I’ll defend Emet’s, and the Ascians right to kill us, forever. Because we have the same right to kill them. It’s not morally wrong for him to kill us, because the ones he’s trying to save are just in a coma. Us preventing that is like unplugging life support. Which puts us in the same exact position as him. Emet-Selch has certainly grew lonely and desperate over the millennia. But he has not fallen in the least.
No, I used to be a 40k youtuber and my name was derived from a character in that universe by the name of Asmodai Link: warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Asmodai
![Thou Must Live, Die, and Know | FFXIV Endwalker Reactions [Part 14]](/img/n.gif)
Hey everyone! For those interested in FFXIV Machinima I started a series a while back that I think everyone will enjoy! If you're interested here's the link! ► th-cam.com/video/ebWUGMdQqG8/w-d-xo.html
ShB: "Bitch you Sundered us, wtf were you thinking???"
EW: "SUNDER THIS SHIT MOOOOOM"
ARR: Mommy!
HW: Uh...mom? Couldn't you have helped out a bit earlier?
SB: *The number you have dialed is no longer in service*
ShB: Mom is super sus now, it's better she just stay away.
EW: Mommy!
This is it, all of FF14 summarized
This is Accurate for growing up in general.
@@jedikitteh can confirm. Am currently in the ShB stage
Oh god, the SB line had me dying.
And thus we have come full circle.
I always feel so sorry for Meteion. She wasn’t built for what she encountered out in the cosmos. She never stood a chance. Of course she broke as hard as she did.
Hades to Hermes: *You ruined a Perfectly good familiar, is what you did. Just look at it! It's got Nihilism!*
Yep. Poor girl couldn't handle being next to Hermes when he was having a rough morning. How would she possibly handle _genocide_ ?
a young child who shakes if people speak too loud near her one moment and then next moment suddenly has MULTIPLE APOCALYPSES across the universe and the memories of all their mournful dead downloaded directly into her head. thats horrible.
@@AStrangeWindmill Not just genocide, multiple genocides on a universal scale.
yuh she was left a burden too heavy too lift in order just to make hermes happy. honestly it was too painful to see
"No more shall man have wings to bare him to paradise. Henceforth, he must walk"
FUCK that is such a badass line
Venat is such a well-written strong female character. Strong yet feminine and motherly, her character oozes natural charisma and confidence that's rarely seen nowadays without all the tropes being shoehorned in.
Couldn't agree more! She should be the textbook example to all those looking to write such a character across the board in my opinion!
What's weird to me is that she didn't have much screen time in the entire game, but the writing for her is just so good that you can barely see or feel any flaws with her.
When u look at venat and M there stories are the same in ways one saw despair and the othe chose fight despair but she aslo caused it
Such a well written storyline and useing Answers to make a perfect finish
That's because Venat wasn't written by western writers.
@@Coramelimane change "western" to "modern western triple A writers" I'll agree with ya.
I always try to respect opinions, but whoever wrote in chat that Answers ruined the scene's mood...is just so wrong. Lol.
Edit: I also had a similar reaction to you first time I saw this. Just kinda sat for a bit, then the first word out of my mouth, "Fuck". Now finally understanding why all the shit that happened, happened. In ShB, Emet painted the Ancients to be this perfect society living in a perfect world. We saw some hints of it in the Tempest, and it can be debated, that maybe they were. But in EW, we begin to see flaws, especially in the talks with Hermes. Then you begin to piece together that this society that is so "perfect", bred a people that simply could not deal with hardships, despite being so powerful. When faced against the Final Days, they turned to sacrifice. When they tried to bring back the ones they sacrificed, they sacrificed even more of their own. Even though they are physically more powerful than their sundered counterparts, I saw that they lack the mental fortitude to endure the harshness of reality, of life.
Just my thoughts. This expansion really had me thinking for weeks after I finished it. Small details, nuances, maybe overthinking some points too. All good stuff. Great video.
Answers was always a big thing and we didn't know it until now, answers to their question why given life, are they mean to suffer?, yes.... answer is brutally well done.
Man, the "Answer me" line during Venat dragged her body into the deeper darkness is like the lamentation of the people she walked past earlier. That shit is so real and true
Yeah that dude couldnt have been more wrong. Wrong on every level, the tune, singing, rhythm, meaning, all fit. Answers IS the scene and the mood! This is the original context of answers.
"that song ruined the mood"
everyone disliked that.
Ruined mood = Not happy, not that it didnt fit.
hythlodaeus smiling just reminds me of “a smile better suits a hero” as he goes to offer his life
@@jennystpierre5501 Also remember that this likely happened not long after Azem had disagreed with the Convocations decision to summon Zodiark and left in protest. While the timespan is unknown, there can not have been long between that moment and Emet having to say goodbye to Hythlodaeus...and we don't even know if Azem and Emet ever met up again before the sundering, so this may very well have been the last Emet saw of both his friends for a very, very long time.
What if haurchefand us a shard of hythlo?
Can’t be. We met the real Hythlodeus’ soul on the moon before this.
Hyth was never sundered, so no part of him was ever reborn.
A "blink and you miss it" moment, when Hyth turns around, you can see his expression change to fear and sorrow at having to go through with it. But at the same time there's also resignation, because deep down he knows it's the only way he can truly help Hades end the Final Days.
WoL and the gang: Gadanggit Hermes look what you up and did, you dun gave it anxiety. And now wants to murder everything.
Hermes: "hold on she may have a point."
WoL and the gang: "wat."
Jokey comment aside.
Whether this story was planned 10 years ago with 1.0 and ARR ver baitum or at least blueprint to EW or recently crafted up. Giving the song Answers new meaning with its lyrics and centering it now to amurots final days is top tier story telling. Even adding the lyrics into venats speach gave me literal chills.
Literally so good.
hermes did have a point MFs were throwing life as a zoomer throws money for fortnite skins. But it was not the way.
@@ToxisFaux I think they said in an interview that they didn't plan this from the start. The writing team needs to be given the credit due for being able to pull together the threads and tie everything off with a nice bow like they did
@@zennok I remember in an interview around Heavensward release (aka 3.0) Yoshi-P said they had the story laid out up to 6.0 (aka Endwalker)
It obviously doesn't go all the way back to 1.0, since firstly, it wasn't Yoshi-P, and secondly, it started as mostly a cash grab by Squeenix that went south.
And I don't think it could've started with 2.0 since Yoshi-P was in full "gotta fix this shit until people actually like it. We'll deal with the future later"
Still, knowing they already thought out all the stuff we've seen in EW back when we were fighting dragons is crazy. And if you keep that in mind, you can remember certain parts of the early story that already hinted towards this. The one example I always go back to is in Praetorium, the t̶a̶l̶k̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ monologue you listen to in the elevator ride, Gaius is already hinting at things you found out in Shadowbringers
It was pointed out in a Pyromancer steam that Hythlodeaus name means something and I thought it was most appropriate here. 'He who speaks of nothing', the way he tricks Hermes into thinking he's going to open the confluence is perfect
No, it's pretty clear Emet DOES want us to kill him even without remembering this. There's a REASON he was 'testing' us over and over, as he said, living whole lives as one of us and having family with us and everything...he WANTED us to be good enough, he wanted it to end. He was sad and tired. But he just couldn't bring himself to give up his duty, or give up on his friends. In the end, he lured you to Amaurot specifically so that you would kill him if you were able, and if you were able then he could FINALLY be satisfied ENOUGH to let go and get his rest.
He admits he tested us countless times and "found us wanting"...and there's no reason for him to have tested us except that he wanted to stop.
Or the more obvious take was when Emet correctly rejected Meteions gift of oblivion and identified that Hermes reasoning (a repetition of the Ancients argument for culling their creations) was sophistry bullshit... That's also funny cause Hermes also rejects the argument, he doesn't believe it but it's an acknowledgment of how the Ancients have structured their societal purpose. Emet lived thousands of years pursuing an agenda rationalised on an argument he knows is full of shit.
Which explains why he did the "testing", he wasn't convinced of the argument. And ever single rejoining invalidated the argument more and more.
Not sure what your saying 'No' to here. I never disagreed with this. I theorized during this zone that Emet and the gang all would fulfill a plan in the future to fight the Final Days and that everything we went through with the Ascians up to that point was all a massive strategy to defeat the final days once and for all. That ended obviously not being correct as Hythlodeus and Hades both lost their memories. Otherwise your 'no' makes no sense as I already believed he wanted us to kill him and even after this moment I acknowledged Hades' desire for it was a subconscious imprint from the memories lost to Kairos.
So I No to your 'No' XD
@@DisappointedBuddha That couldn't have been his motive because he didn't remember that at all.
This is actually an interesting thought. Every time, bar one, Emet found us wanting. Perhaps it was because we were not perfectly unsundered like he was, but maybe it was because he wanted to see if we were strong enough to put him out of his misery, which in the end, we were.
He doesn’t need to remember Elpis, as the WoL is already a proven Ascian killer by then. While he won’t just lie down and accept death, there was at least some releif when he lost; that he can finally rest after carrying the burden of his duty to “awaken his bretheren from their dark slumber” for some odd 12000 years.
As a friend said: I was not expecting the Fermi Paradox in my Final Fantasy.
Hahaha yeah me too, and the "great silence" among other things. Meteion's answer is one of the theories on the paradox actually that intelligent life/civilziations perish eventually.
Hythlodayas sacrificed himself. It’s why Emet looked distraught.
I believe the scene with Venat walking thru the time have stronger impact if you have played the game longer. For years, veterans to the game were swayed back and forth with Hydaelyn and her intent. Between those years, our feelings towards her gravitated gradually towards betrayal. And all those negative feelings we have accumulated over the years were thrown back to us in the face after learning the truth of her sacrifice.
I've been playing since 2.0 and I never really thought she betrayed us or anything. Oh, I did have my doubts, especially after 5.0, but ultimately all I wanted was to actually get her perspective on things... and boyyyy did we get it... lol
Possibly, I cannot speak to the difference of impact/severity. All I can say is I was impacted on the same level that draws out tears in a normal individual, I just don't cry very easily. I think it comes from the life I've lived. I've watched friends (in the most genuine and literal sense of 'watched') friends die from cancer, I've been attacked by predators and injured and I've had to bury many loved ones. When I was younger dealing with those things I cried and cried and cried, but with consistent exposure to such things as well as just getting older I've grown a tendency not to display sadness. With the exception of course being when I'm reminded of my hardest moments irl.
I say all this as I assume you made this comment because I did not cry as you yourself did in this scene or as others have and so that you have more context as to 'why?' other than my time investment and game-veteran status as an emotional investment meter.
Because she didn't betray. We've known since ARR that she's running on fumes. Struggles to even be heard by people.
And yet, still, when the chips are down she acts to save people. Minfillia didn't incarnate on the first with the power to halt the flood out of some cosmic coincidence. Hydaelyn sent her there with that power and for that purpose.
And that's not counting the number of times she just straight up saves your life directly. We'd have never even made it through ARR without her personal favor and protection.
And we're supposed to think she bad because... What, she's a primal? Like Ysayle? Because she wasn't always 100% upfront and truthful with us? Like most of the scions?
Her actions and sacrifices make plain her motives, even if you might find her means dishonest.
I got into a number of arguments in the days leading up to EW.
What has she done that was actually evil? Sundering the world? How can you know that's bad? Because Emmet Selch, destroyer of civilizations, said so? Why take his word for it in the first place?
Even if you think Highly of the guy*, even he started to see the merit in the world we were trying to protect. Otherwise, why fight us at all? We were dying- he could have literally fucked off to another shard and won just by waiting. Instead, he has a single final battle with you, to the victor goes the future, by his own words (paraphrasing).
* which I don't. He doesn't even consider people like the WoL and their comrades to even *be* people- which is how he justified multiple acts of wide scale genocide. And yes, the Ascians rejoining efforts resulted in *many* civilization ending calamities, explicitly so, including the flood of light on the first. While I understand his motives, and even applaud his resolve, I cannot condone his actions because doing so mean agreeing that the lives of those living right now are meaningless compared to the lives of those long dead.
As a veteran myself, I strongly disagree. They wrote her up as this powerful force that helps only when things are most dire. In return, she leaves it up to the WoL to determine which is the best course of action. Being given the space to make thy own decisions is a sign of trust, knowing full well that they may fail, only to rebound and try again.
To be honest, it says more about the personal self and the unwillingness to sit and think about what's actually happening without judgment coming in and having the first and final say. It bespeaks a mind unwilling to see the information as it conflicts with what one feels to be true.
have to say i disagree - given all her actions, i never got the impression she would end up being 'the big bad'.
This was 100% my favorite scene in the whole expansion. So powerful and tells the reason for the whole story
The flashes are the calamities/rejoinings, thats why she is hurt everytime it happens. That's what it seems to me at least.
Also I would add when she expends power for the sake of WoL like Pretorium, shielding us from Ultima ... and probably not just us ... but other WoL through history
It was incredibly important we had to spend time with Venat. Hydaelyn was ever the enigmatic figure from the beginning of our journey. We got to form a bond and understood her as a character and not a far off divinity of light. She had feelings, she had personality, she had hopes. She was a friend, mentor and like a mother. And to let her go when the time came.
The emet that saved us against Elidibus is just a shard of his being he left in Azem's crystal to be of help to his friend if he ever get their hand on said crystal, that's why it appears as just a phantom like those he created and dissipate instantly
*sighhhhhhhhhhhh* after seeing that last part for several times now, I think it hits harder every time.
What always hits me is Hythlodaeus just giving Emet a casual 'see you later' wave, knowing he's about to walk off to go sacrifice himself, and just that split second of fear on his face when he turns away, and Emet doesn't see it but he knows it's there but all he can do is stand there and watch him go, because we *all* know how it ends.
41:22 is exactly when Emet-Selch becomes the megalomaniacal Emet we got to know.
One person said in chat that Answers ruined the mood of the major custscene... ... ... That cutscene was what Answers was always about, how could it ruin it? This is literally what the song always meant. Some have tried to claim it was the launch song, it's NOT. It was the shutdown song and Yoshi was already in charge by then and they already had the direction of the game mapped out. This wasn't a new meaning for the song. It was THE meaning of the song since day one.
Actually, Answers was in the game since the first opening scenes of 1.0. th-cam.com/video/ksuoipNWKWs/w-d-xo.html Here is the Limsa opening on the boat for proof. So yeah, it wasn't really the shutdown song, it was in the game before that. Whether its meaning was the same or not is unknown.
Argos such a good boi
Never forget Hydaelyn chose Minfilia because she looked like her doggo
In the same fleeting moment… thou must live die and know
It seems that she tries to help all the Warriors of Light throughout the ages but doing so also spends her strength. There was a period where Midgardsormr removed the Blessing of Light (which is the thing that keeps people safe from Ascians and primals) so that Hydaelyn can save some strength.
I find it interesting that this scene depicts a crossroads for Venat. She tried to convince her brethren to move on, accept the loss, and grow stronger for it. But the fervor with which they prayed for a return to normalcy, emphasis on RETURN, so much so that they would sacrifice another 50% of the remaining half of humanity to do so, showed her that the temptation would always be too strong to resist. So she sundered her own people and Zodiark himself so that they would never again have the capability to wish the world, those in, and no longer in it back.
She could accept that Zodiark was necessary to save the world, but as soon as folks started considering sacrificing even more people just to have their bit of paradise back, it was a step too far. Its a pity; imagine if the Ancients had learned to grow from the End Days, and where we would be now as an Unsundered people.
I recommend people revisit the Elpis story. Because everything discussed is really important and in the initial moments they may miss the narrative connections made.
Especially with Hermes. When he chains the crew he does it directly after Emet announces the most hypocritical statement made in his eyes, "who are you to judge us?", our entire experience in Elpis is judging the fitness of "lesser" beings, some that are even cogniscient of their own survival and impending deaths, and the crew shrugs it off like its nothing. Then when the shoe is on the other foot they flip the script... Hermes said 'fuck that, learn to live for the world and not just yourself and you'll be fine, it'll be depressing but I'm depressed and I rejected my daughters suicide offer'. Ancients were like "... no, I don't think I will"
And the summoning of Zodiark is even more egregious after learning how they approach their own deaths. They see it as a return of blood to the planet they borrowed it from... until their existence is threatened and they decide "no, I think we'll dump 50% of the population into this god we thought up, actually make it 75%, actually fuck the rest of the world cause we'll kill it to bring back our friends". The whole structure died because they couldn't deal with their familiars with sentience transforming into Terminal Beasts due to fear and loathing they have of their Ancient masters.
Once you start peeling layers back devoid of the initial wow factor, it's pretty good
The Meteia's intentions went beyond just threatening the Ancients' existence. All life on Etheirys, period, was going to be choked out and not allowed to return. It was abomination to the Ancients' views, because even returning to the star wouldn't be granted; they would be cut off, and the planet die as more and more life was snuffed out until it was a barren, inhospitable rock.
@@BlazeIgnitus True, but that's because her and Hermes' philosophical positions aren't the same. Hermes is nihilistic and anti-anthropocentric, meaning that he doesn't see an inherent meaning to life and wants to find one and he believes that mankind shouldn't prioritize themselves over their created creatures.
The Meteia, on the other hand, are straight up anti-natal. They believe that to exist is inherently to suffer, and that it would be better for nothing to exist at all.
The difference in their views is why Hermes ultimately decides against going with Meteion. While he loves her and respects her conclusion, he still hopes that her test will spur mankind to develop a reason for living. But if mankind can't find a reason for being, Hermes is willing to accept the Meteia's judgement and end it all to prevent further suffering.
one of the most artistic and well written moments in video game history.
When I first watched this I didn’t realize the hits she took while walking in the void-like space were calamities. At least that’s what someone told me they were.
then she should have been hit 7 times.
Its more like symbolizing how much "blood" she has on her hands with all the suffering she created by sundering everyone as she technically did start all the bloodshed yet cant prevent or help humans in solving it. But still keeps moving (its just black because of PG rating ect)
Fuck I cried all over again.
This has got to be one of the most powerful scenes in the whole game.
for the one guy who said "this song ruined the mood" Like. The song is integral to the story being told by this scene. Like I don't understand.
There is a theory called "Dead Space" which believes that the reason why we couldnt make any contact with other sentient lifeforms is because they are all dead. We are still alive because we havent reach "the threshold" yet, and no one knows what "the threshold" is. It can be a disease from space, higher lifeforms, cosmic anomalies, environmental collapse, internal conficts that lead to mass extinction of life, etc. There are scary stories about "Dead Space" as well.
FFXIV took this theory and made it into the main plot of EW pretty much the game Dead Space.
I never realised the some of the elpis theme and ktisis hyperboreia theme are the same melody until now.
The one thing that makes this scene so deep is that line of amon when he says that In forgetting all he actually did was etch the memory unconsciously on the soul
Huh... your point about the unique nihilistic take on other worlds is something I hadn't realized.
And yep, that's a terrifying thought, alright...
My SO didn't cry at this part either, but I could tell she felt it. I think this will hit differently for everyone, being that we each have experienced loss in different ways.
I wish more people would take off the great big robe of spoilers before teleporting out of the ocular
You need to get control of your chat. Nothing is worse than people telling you what you’re going to feel before you get to a section of the game. “Prepare to cry” is not helpful and leads the streamer to anticipate something.
People in general are idiots. Just the way of the world.
the worst part is that Meteion didnt arrive at the conclusion life has no meaning. the conclusion she arrived at is that the meaning of life is to end. that living beings are meant to suffer then die, then be reborn, suffer more and die again, in an endless cycle of pain. and that's why she wants to kill/unobrn Ehteirys. because she loves us and wants to spare us that pain that comes inevitably before death. spare us from loneliness, and sorrow, and despair, and embrace death. that's what hurts the most. even then, completely broken by all the thinsg she's seen, all the horrors she's *felt*, she's still acting out of kindness. still a glimpse of that little Meteion in a garden of flowers picking up Axolotl with WoL.
and as someone in chat mentionned as you were going through it : poor Meteion. as an empath, facing existential dread... and when it was only Hermes near her, it made her feel pain, can you imagine what i t must have been like for her when it's not 1 being, but an entire planet worth of despair ? i just wish we could give her a headpat, and tell her it's all going to be ok >.
Dam 2 years and this scene still hits ...
And welcome to the moment where, after many times thinking the plot just got real, it truly all comes together. We've been listening to Answers for a decade now, but we didn't know the question. Now we do, it is Venat's answer to Meteion.
Venat is the text book mom that woops are ass when we need it but cries after doing it later when she's alone
The only other story I can think of offhand that used the "surrounded by dead ends" concept was an old webcomic called "A Miracle of Science" by Jon Kilgannon and Mark Sachs.
Exactly the same thing I said after watching her walk through history, "fuck"
What you don't get is that Emet was never evil. He just wanted to rejoin the worlds and bring back his people no matter the cost. Had he remembered this moment, he probably wouldn't have done that and attempted instead to stop Meteon. He wasn't an evil crazy guy...just had a different goal than the player, which put him at odds with you only to fall in the end.
Sacrificing all the lives that were born that weren't the originals, to bring back those who existed before, is pretty damn evil, I'd argue. As he said in the cutscene when you first tell him of what you experienced in your personal past, and his and Venat's future, to forcibly sacrifice the lives that the people who willingly gave themselves sought to preserve, spits on their actions, their sacrifice.
You don't think mass genocide is evil...???
The Emet-Selch that is during the Seat of Sacrifice is only a memory preserved in the crystal of Azem, so it would have nothing to do with the soul regaining lost memories. As Emet-Selch himself created that crystal long after the events at Ktesis.
U were not be the asmon i was expecting but i wasn't disappointed
this scene didnt make me cry, more like yit, what a steep mountain to climb after that.. kinda feeling
I USED to think it took a lot to make me cry....
then I played this damned expansion.
when he mentions 40k at 32, he seems to forget the tyranid hypethesis, that the milky way galaxy is surounded by other dead (eaten) galaxies, and the possibility, that something even scarier is hunting the tyranids...
Hilariously, if you are a race other than Hyur, they comment on it. Like, I'm a male bun and they commented on my ears. 8D
Hermes to Metion: Divide this by zero please!
Metion: *BOOM*
Thou must live, die and know at the end of the song had me thing about Emet as if it was directed at him personally. Also the moment with Emet Selch... when i saw Venat walking towards him i had to think about that cutscene where he saw one of his within you and "No, it cannot be"... i kinda feel he saw Venat there.
Personally, I like to think that when he saw us back in SHB, he was seeing us as the Azem he once knew, but that's just me. Though I do also love the idea that Venat/Hydaelen was helping us take another step forward, even as it wounded herself deeply in the process.
Kinda funny how this artifical lifeform goes the way of the men of Iron. "Universe is so bad all life must end".
Hermès really said I will judge All of humanity on my own also I delete my own memory to ensure this is fair
Ahh Hermes and the forgetti spaghetti, great memories
Not ppl expecting everyone to bawl their eyes out through the entirety of EW. I guess I’m one of the minority who didn’t cry once. I felt very sad just as you did. It takes a lot to make me cry for real too. I’m happy that the game managed to make people cry. I did however cry about Emet-Selch during Shadowbringers. That shit hurt 🥺
It looked to me like a check-up question rather than enforcing an expectation. They started with "How are you feeling?" before saying "You didn't cry.", so they probably wanted to know his thoughts about the scene.
Crying is a really easy way to tell what one thinks, but he stood very serious throughout most of it, so it was kinda difficult to figure out how much or how little he liked it.
@@Eelanos My apologies I guess??? I've been seeing comments like these all over and I'm not sure how animated people want me to be. I guess I need to hold up a sign every time I'm affected based on the confusion. I do speak to how the scene affected me, I just don't go on for an hour about it and I suppose people think I don't care because of that which in and of itself confuses me.
@@Asmogan Nah, no apologies needed at all. I'm just saying, the guy that commented "How are you feeling? You didn't cry" on the chat probably had no ill will nor did he want to imply that you *had* to cry. He was probably asking just to know your opinion on the scene.
I don't understand the one person in chat thinking "Answers" ruined the mood of the cutscene, read the lyrics and it's pretry clear the song was always about this event, the music has gravitas, the lyrics have meaning, and the tone is both hopeful yet solemn. This was the path we had to walk to find the answer to Hermes' question
The chat in the stream (on the video) is so bad i wish I could turn it off just to be ignorant of it, literally just full of people spoiling stuff or quoting dialogue that is going to be said in a cutscene 2 minutes later. what is wrong with these "look at me" sort of people
Has Hades really fallen? If Emet was tasked with preserving Etherys by the means of killing billions of familiars, he’d do it now still.
I’ll defend Emet’s, and the Ascians right to kill us, forever. Because we have the same right to kill them. It’s not morally wrong for him to kill us, because the ones he’s trying to save are just in a coma. Us preventing that is like unplugging life support. Which puts us in the same exact position as him.
Emet-Selch has certainly grew lonely and desperate over the millennia. But he has not fallen in the least.
A visual/written summary of this video:
😐
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😳
"Fuuuck."
hey just FYI the folks of wokehammer also part of the woke Final Fantasy 14 community as well
Matteyon? Who's that? 🤣
Did you just combine Asmongold and Joe Rogans names to make your own?
No, I used to be a 40k youtuber and my name was derived from a character in that universe by the name of Asmodai
Link: warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Asmodai