*Arthur Morgan proceeds to smoke 12 packs of cigars in 3 seconds to build up Dead-Eye * Then unleashes a barrage of rounds that kills everyone in the blink of an eye.
I think this scene does a really good job at painting just how charismatic Dutch's character is. Yes, obviously there's people that played the game and "immediately knew dutch was the bad guy", but you also have the meta knowledge that you're playing a VIDEO GAME, and potentially have even played rdr1. In this world, Dutch is so charismatic that people would follow him to the end. They had no idea he was gonna lead them straight off a cliff.
I wouldn’t stand a chance with a manipulator irl, as I did not see through Dutch whatsoever. I thought he was lovely, until the scene where he left Arthur for dead at the oil factory / whatever it’s called. I was so utterly engrossed in the story too - imagine if you really were in the thick of it - it would be incredibly hard to see through it, especially if you were desperate for safety & a place to belong!
I think agent Milton genuinely wanted the gang to run. he's getting paid to hunt down dutch but the way he says "run you fools" seems to indicate that he would genuinely hate to have to kill all of them. of course over time as things got more heated and they killed more of his men he probably started to lose it and then wanted to kill them all out of vengeance and anger
Sad that dutch guarantees the fate of most of the gang and throws them away at the end of the game after they stood by his side despite not being targeted
@@Hunter11725 actually Milton only ever wanted Dutch, as he's the guy who has been robbing Cornwall's trains. The rest of the gang outside of Arthur are mostly unknown. It's not until after Abilgail kills Milton and Ross gets put in charge that the Pinkertons start gunning for the whole gang. Milton was likely looking to capture Dutch for a public execution as a message to other outlaws, which is why they had Micah as thier spy to trap Dutch.
@@Hunter11725 Pinkertons bringing law and order to America pssh more like bringing more money to rich mens pockets while ensuring everyone else stayed in line and worked...
@@mikevignola4213 Micah wasnt a spy/rat at all, watch PVP Cats video. To sum it up he's at the robberies he suppossedly leaked, he is also always after money and just the fun of a killing of cops, and in chapter 5 when you enter Lakay after Micah, Dutch comes in later, the Pinkertons rushed in becuz Bill asked everyone about the gang, they wouldve ambushed and killed Dutch right there if Micah was a rat. Milton lied in 6 and he was gonna let arthur go, I replayed the mission and he doesnt shoot even if you dont press a thing, Abigail shoots him regardless and then your followrd by Pinkertons which follow you to camp.
@@gregrobinette8620 The only reason Micah burned down the Adler home was to keep the gang in Colter during the storm. Most of his actions are based in forcing the gang into bad situations, unfortunately for Micah the members of the gang are mostly competent. He was probably setting them up get bushwhacked in Chapter 3 when he suggested that camp in a large open field that screams "Ambush me". He might not have been rat until after he got snatched after failed heist in Saint Denis, but he was planning to off everyone and run off with the money well before that.
You know what’s funny, even characters like Kieran and Strauss have their gun out at the end of this scene lol… Really shows that everyone was loyal to Dutch. Even micah was probably still loyal at this point.
@@jemoder196 i found something funny about Strauss,at Shady Belle if there's any snake nearby Strauss debt mission, he will run toward the snake and stomp it, i was like goddamn Staruss
@@Yougotcaged102 yep. I got a bounty for "Disturbing the Peace". How in the hell do I get that? It went from 5 dollars to 400 dollars in less than 3 minutes.
The thing with Micah is that as he always said, he is a survivor. At that point, Micah wasn't co-operating with the Pinkertons yet, but was a huge hot-headed heap of trouble, nonetheless, he was still willing to cling onto the gang since it allowed him to survive (e.g. Arthur rescuing him from jail when he was about to get hanged) and would protect them as long as they were useful to him. He was trying to use Dutch to his own benefit by whispering in his ear all the time (e.g. talking about the Blackwater money all the time, because he wanted that money so he maximizes his use of the gang) and then after Guarma, he struck a deal with the Pinkertons, so his goals completely change realising that siding with the Pinkertons would benefit him much more than the gang. I think Micah is a beautifully-written antagonist.
I would not call him "beautifully-written". Micah is a hateful person who may be just a survivor, but I don't buy him not being a rat after Guarma. It's a detail you can easily miss, but in Micahs Strawberry camp you can find a wanted poster of Dutch. Now this could mean 2 things: he either admire him that much or...he wanted the bounty reward. And since Dutch is a well-known, dangerous criminal he would probably make a deal with the authority. You can like the game and characters all you want, but it's not perfect nor the best. Sorry.
@@spelareNR14 Nonetheless, one could make an argument that he took the bounty poster off because he found it to be bringing too much attention to the gang, which he wants to maintain in order to achieve his hateful, selfish goals of dirty money. Or perhaps, he was, as you said, considering his choices at that point, definitely didn't strike a deal with the Pinkertons since Milton does say that ever since they got back from Guarma, that's when Micah started to whisper some things to the agency, however, yes, I can give you the argument that he was considering his choices and the value of his loyalty (which he clearly doesn't possess truly, being a slippery snake that ran with multiple different individuals, such as Cleet and Joe, or even, to some extent, Norman from Strawberry, which he kills in the mission "Blessed are the Meek?") to the gang at that point.
I partly disagree. Micah's affinity towards Dutch is more than him just using Dutch. Characters like Micah, ultimately cowards, are drawn to figures of power. They only respect such. Figures like Dutch. We also learned that Micah had a brutal father, so my thinking is that he was also seeking his approval. As some sort of father surrogate. His kowtowing towards Dutch is real. He likes being the respected and approved right hand of a man with power and wisdom.
@@XPPlayzMC Micah only went after Arthur when he was on the brink of death, I'd bet money had Arthur not got TB ;and everything else went the same Micah would have ran away.
Lol you say that, but you and many others neglecte to acknowledge the truth in it. What he said is the complete truth. The truth served cold, raw, and harsh. The way the truth is ment to be told. That's what the world persisted of them, and it's only gotten worse now
@@michaelcrabtree1856 But Dutch IS the greedy one. He's willing to lead innocent people to their doom just to take a step forward towards achieving his unrealistic and utopist goals.
@@angryinternetperson6629 i can not argue his greed. Although he is not, NOT the only one who is greedy. But greed can be defined by many forms. Not all bad, and not all of those are to blame. Stress in a situation such as that can cause more than what Dutch had in terms of issues
@@michaelcrabtree1856 He's not the only one who is greedy but the point is that Dutch is unknowingly a hypocrite for describing others as greedy even though he himself is greedy. That's the whole point.
@@angryinternetperson6629 Dutch is just Dutch man. Greedy and selfish yes. Most of them except a few were. But in truth Dutch, and I'm saying this because unlike many people I can actually relate to his situation. Outlaws life. Whether it be Moonshine, Weed, or BANKS. My family has a history of bootlegging and making shine. I grew up in some of it, but the family who taught me what I know died a few years ago and that way of life has almost became impossible on account of the amount of people. But an Outlaw must be right 110% of the time. That right there is alot of stress alone. Then tack on an entire group and the role of an Leader and you get more stress then any 1 man can handle. Dutch had Hosea to carry some of that burden. While Hosea was alive Dutch was able to plan correctly. Dutch had the rough draft, and Hosea put the finishing touches on it to make a final working plan. Dutch got an brain injury, and then Hosea died. I will not say that how Dutch did wasn't wrong because it was. But you must look at ALL ASPECTS of that situation
As much as i despise Strauss for indirectly causing arthur's unfortunate fate its nice to see how even he pulls out a gun to stand up for Dutch in this scene
@@riverbedfred7352 Not really, plantations were pretty heavily involved with slavery, and the scars of slavery and the civil war are extremely apparent throughout chapter 3 and the start of 4.
@@bryce5882 Well, tbh Rockstar have also abandoned the story mode, only to continue gta online. The story mode for red dead, has soooo much dlc potential, but instead Rockstar just dropped its new child on the head and left it where it is at the moment.
@@isaactoler2330 In my opinion, if Rockstar were to expand on Red Dead, they should keep the Blackwater job a mystery. Leaving fans to wonder on what went wrong. If Rockstar was willing to make a DLC, I'd prefer if it started when the gamg was thriving, about a few years before the gang got to Blackwater, then events lead up to 1899 just before the heist begins.
Strauss was always loyal even after Arthur kicked him out of the camp he never ratted out the gang the reason why he got himself killed by the pinkertons
tbh i don't think he didn't want to get his hands dirty. i think the reason he resorted to "usery" (money lending) instead of robbing and gunslinging like the rest of them, is simply because he was too old and didn't have the skill. likely never learned/developed how to shoot well (or at least well enough to not get killed in the process), and now he's too old to do anything physical like that without the skill to back it up. so he does what he can/the only thing he knows how to do. nevertheless he did love the gang and was loyal to them to the end, even though they kicked him out and he could have sold them out to spite them. but he didn't. so not surprised even he grabbed a gun (his or not, there was surely plenty of guns lying around an outlaw camp, not like he couldn't have just grabbed the nearest one lmao) ready to defend and potentially die for his family if need be.
"It's man so in love with greed... He has forgotten himself and found only appetites." Is still my favorite line in this game. So true of the America we live in today
The game could have ended right there with a cutscene of growing mangos in Tahiti. Milton and Ross where outnumbered. But I always wondered if they had backup in the trees.
The way I saw it is there's no way they would have went in without a plan. They probably had men waiting outside for a certain time and if the two didn't come back then they'd go in and kill the gang
@@carl_consumer.of.reality I've always thought the same but then why wouldn't Milton and Ross go straight back in with the men they had waiting after the gang refused the offer? 🤷♂️
The problem with this, them having *"backup in the trees"* is if this was the case, then logically they would've just ran their pockets then and there. As soon as Milton and Ross left line of sight, they could've sent them in. The gang would've been at their mercy. I think it is more likely Milton and Ross stumbled across the gang after asking about town, *(the old Confederate Veteran warns Morgan of this, if you interact with him enough).* In their hubris, Milton and Ross stroll into camp to make *"Dutch's Boys"* an offer he believes they cannot refuse. Give us Dutch and we'll leave the rest of you alone. Assuming lowlifes have no honor, or sense of loyalty. That greed is what ultimately drives this way of life. However most of them see Dutch as a father and that's where his offer fell. He got cocky, and that could've cost him and Ross their lives. You also have to consider Milton's choice of words, *"I'll give the rest of you three days to run off".* This tells me that he didn't have backup with him, and that they were acting as private investigators. However, realistically most don't have time to analyze all of that in the heat of the moment. So its somewhat understandable, why they'd let him go. Even if that choice wasn't the smartest decision.
yeah its a damn game, it would be more realistic if we killed far less in the game, but then people would say its boring and more like a playable movie.
In Willzyyy's version and GTA Series's version Micah isn't present when Milton and Ross enter. I also remember one time I saw him walking in the background as the 2 enter. Either theres a bug that prevents his character model from spawning in the cinematic cutscene or Rockstar created 2 cutscenes and this was done as a way of hinting his betrayal. Proof is below. th-cam.com/video/mjjzN6EvQSw/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/e8tRvV-_oSA/w-d-xo.html
There’s no reason Micah should be away from camp at this point in the story so it’s more likely that it was a bug and maybe it got patched since Micah always seems to appear in the cutscene now
Seriously I never understood why they didn’t just kill Milton and Ross here. They’re completely alone so it’s not like the gang had to worry about any retaliation, they’re already wanted, and they’ve promised to return and kill them all (or at least Dutch and probably Arthur and Hosea). There are only positives to killing them here and quite literally zero negatives.
Speaking of the fishing scene with Jack, the only reason Arthur didn't kill Milton and Ross then and there, and he would have since he was reaching for his gun, was to spare Jack from potentially being traumatized.
Wow, at 3:33 I just noticed that he says "all of you will die" to the ones who do die, but the ones alive in the epilogue are behind him (Micah, Sadie, Pearson and Charles).
What the fuck? Marston and Dutch are both alive and well during the Epilogue and they're in front of him. Strauss is behind him and he's dead on the Epilogue.
@@raoulduke344 Yeah, but that's not how you phrased it. You said "the ones alive in the epilogue are behind him" - both Dutch and Marston are alive in the Epilogue. If you're going by the logic of "the ones who get killed by the government are in front of Milton" then Javier should be in front of him, too, considering he gets killed in RDR1.
You're right, how odd! Other videos of this cutscene are spilt 50/50 between him being there and him being missing. I don't remember this part of the story too well; is he elsewhere waiting to trigger a mission for some players, depending on which order they complete things?
No cause this happens directly after the shoot out in Rhodes where Sean gets shot it's Arthur, Micah and bill against sheriff gray, his family and deputies
@@dynamicender After that, they go to the Braithwaite Mansion, which Micah was told to stay at camp for. Then this scene automatically plays. There's no reason he should be gone as far as i know
I just noticed Kieran had his gun out, that feller problably wouldn't be there if I had used the gelding tongs, I was so exited that day I almost sh#% my pants
Because thats the worst thing they could have done. They clearly didn't enter without eyes in the distance and if they killed them the pinkertons would have done what Ross did in RDR1 when he attacked Johns ranch. They're giving them a chance and by killing them it shows they don't care about morality.
@@RyanTheMalamute No it wouldn't, but see it this way. Milton was the most fanatic Pinkerton wanting to see Dutch swing, and he probably was the brains behind all the operations against the Van der Linde gang. Killing Milton and Ross there would definitely buy the gang some valuabe time and set the Pinkertons back big time. Only reason I can think of as to why they didn't floor Milton and Ross here is because they expected an army of agents on standby shouldn't both of them return.
Some sort of literary 'divine stalemate' - If Milton had brought 50 men with him here, or if Dutch had given the order after the threat- either could have ended the story right then and there.
Dutch always thought of himself... used every single gang memeber till the end for to only benefit himself... this is the sad reality of This game.... THERE was a time when I used to blame Micah and Molly for all of this but now... it's Dutch... Micah just motivated Dutch and made him feel that he was doing right... Micah was just a Rat... Dutch was the Big Game... O Van Der Linde... There was a time when you were my favourite... so CHARISMATIC PERSONALITY... But... Reality is often disappointing
Same. Even after multiple playthroughs I wanted to still love Dutch. I still do, at least pre-Guarma. But it took me a long time to cope with the fact that this fictional character I admired so much was not a good person at heart lol.
Exactly. Everyone always says that Dutch was a good man and him bumping his head changed him but the game subtly implies Dutch was always that way. Arthur even says too “Dutch ain’t himself right now, or maybe he just wasn’t who we thought he was” And John in the epilogue also says “You saw a man who’s character changed, I saw a man who got found out for what he really was” to Sadie, and I’d trust Johns judgement over Sadie’s over the simple fact that John knew Dutch 15 years longer than Sadie did
@@josephstalin2606 Yeah, it's weird how many people blame the head injury for the whole thing, as if the very first chapter isn't about Dutch doing stupid things that he wouldn't normally do. second mission in the game: Dutch shot a girl in a "bad way" which "ain't like him". He then risks going after O'Driscoll and then robbing the Cornwall train, while they're still in Colter nearly dying. His whole ordeal with Cornwall and also the Grays and Braithewaites, and Bronte, were all to show how bad his judgement had gotten and how stubborn and narcissistic he really is.
Micah doesn’t show up here for everyone, for some he can be seen walking around in the camp in the background, this is an interesting detail from rockstar.
@@CorYxKeNshun Yea "Boy" was a term of disrespect used towards slaves. Even for years after, calling the hired help (Waiters and the ilke) "Boy" was an extreme putdown
I often wonder what made the gang draw their guns in unison. Maybe a code word in the sentence Dutch had spoken. Because he didn’t finish it when the gun were drawn
He was being overly sarcastic and offered that to make a point knowing that no one in the gang would allow that to happen on their watch. Wasn’t about code words, just a plain old power move lol
Idk if he does this anymore throughout the game but i just noticed that dutch doesn't call John his son he instead calls him "brother" unlike with Arthur he always calls him his son and then in the first game bill Williamson says that dutch has always wanted to kill John which makes since now
He calls him son more than he says it to Arthur. Just look at the ending when he comes out of the cabin. Arthur was closer to Hosea, but wasn't appreciated by Dutch as much as he should have been. Hosea wished to be closer to John but John always shrugged him off.
few days ago i was getting 100 percent completation all i had rest to do was complete the story and do what i needed to do as john and i saw this and i really said to myself "wait what really micah is in this scene i thought he was the one that told milton where the camp was" ( EDIT: after watching i decided to look if he actually is suppose to be here or not bc a while back i saw a video saying he was the only one who wasnt, and he isnt suppose to be there idk if it has something to do with honor or just a slight update bc it didnt make sense in story (bc he doesnt start talking until after the guarma chapter) or what but either way its cool to know that its different now)
Bro Dutch says "Trust Me" and all I hear is the Snake from Jungle Book that scaly prick sang a whole song about trusting him while hypnotizing the boy. Dude really hissed like he had a snake tongue in this scene.
What I don't get is why they dont kill milton the second he turns his back. Both times he shows up, threatens and drolls on, and walks calmly away like hes exiting stage right in some kinda play. It wouldn't get rid of the law, but it would buy them time if the person in charge of the hunt was gone. The gang was soft enough to let him go free when, again, they shouldve riddled his ass with bullets, multiple times. In that sense they reaped what they sowed.
Interesting, I just did that mission yesterday and noticed Micah was standing outside camp leaning against a tree, and I thought to myself "he clearly doesn't care about anyone but himself" then I see this video today.
Dutch: "I am nothing but a seeker, Mr. Milton." --- Blind Man Cassidy to Arthur in one of many prophecies he says: "Run from the seeker, sir. Run and keep running, or help others to run."
This is the only moment In the game where Agent Milton and Ross could have been killed without any problems. That is because at the time Jack wasn't there so there's no reason to worry about him seeing dead people and plus the entire gang was there at the time which declared an automatic victory.
"When i return ill be with fifty men" this gang has won shoot outs with morethan fifty men on multiple occasions. Fifty men would only be a fair fight if it was hand to hand
Milton might understand what the last gangs are going through, but he also understands there’s no stopping the spread of the government. He has to do his job, his own gov will kill or shame him if he doesn’t.
"When i come back, I'll be with fifty men!" Dutch: So Arthur and John then Arthur: i reckon Marston can handle it on his own... Long as they don't bring any dogs with them
There’s no way “Agent Moron” believed John when he said his name is Rip Van Winkle. Also Dutch’s line of “and to what do we owe the pleasure… Agent Moron?” Is funny as ever hearing Dutch call Milton, agent moron.
"When I come back, I'll be with FIFTY men!"
Arthur: (laughs in dead-eye)
* RDR1 flashback trauma *
just a Evans repeater, Lancaster, and a Mauser pistol and you could take em all out.
Cotton Hill: I'll kill those fitty men!
@@itssonotover961 I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT
*Arthur Morgan proceeds to smoke 12 packs of cigars in 3 seconds to build up Dead-Eye * Then unleashes a barrage of rounds that kills everyone in the blink of an eye.
That sequence of the gang getting their guns ready is so cool, even to this day. The gang was STRAPPED
Deadly af too
The only annoying part is that Arthur’s makes a cocking sound but his finger doesn’t touch the hammer
@@prestoonz4973 did he not?
Everyone in those days were strapped
@@dognoodle87 too bad it's not like that anymore
I think this scene does a really good job at painting just how charismatic Dutch's character is. Yes, obviously there's people that played the game and "immediately knew dutch was the bad guy", but you also have the meta knowledge that you're playing a VIDEO GAME, and potentially have even played rdr1. In this world, Dutch is so charismatic that people would follow him to the end. They had no idea he was gonna lead them straight off a cliff.
Dutch reminds me of Griffith from Berserk
Literally, in Arthur's case.
I'm glad I played RDR2 first then RDR1. Both are my two favorite video games, RDR2 better of course imo.
I wouldn’t stand a chance with a manipulator irl, as I did not see through Dutch whatsoever. I thought he was lovely, until the scene where he left Arthur for dead at the oil factory / whatever it’s called. I was so utterly engrossed in the story too - imagine if you really were in the thick of it - it would be incredibly hard to see through it, especially if you were desperate for safety & a place to belong!
@@Camisimluva Yeah my first playthrough i genuinely had faith in Dutch until Chapter 6
I think agent Milton genuinely wanted the gang to run. he's getting paid to hunt down dutch but the way he says "run you fools" seems to indicate that he would genuinely hate to have to kill all of them. of course over time as things got more heated and they killed more of his men he probably started to lose it and then wanted to kill them all out of vengeance and anger
Sad that dutch guarantees the fate of most of the gang and throws them away at the end of the game after they stood by his side despite not being targeted
@@Hunter11725 actually Milton only ever wanted Dutch, as he's the guy who has been robbing Cornwall's trains. The rest of the gang outside of Arthur are mostly unknown.
It's not until after Abilgail kills Milton and Ross gets put in charge that the Pinkertons start gunning for the whole gang.
Milton was likely looking to capture Dutch for a public execution as a message to other outlaws, which is why they had Micah as thier spy to trap Dutch.
@@Hunter11725 Pinkertons bringing law and order to America pssh more like bringing more money to rich mens pockets while ensuring everyone else stayed in line and worked...
@@mikevignola4213 Micah wasnt a spy/rat at all, watch PVP Cats video.
To sum it up he's at the robberies he suppossedly leaked, he is also always after money and just the fun of a killing of cops, and in chapter 5 when you enter Lakay after Micah, Dutch comes in later, the Pinkertons rushed in becuz Bill asked everyone about the gang, they wouldve ambushed and killed Dutch right there if Micah was a rat. Milton lied in 6 and he was gonna let arthur go, I replayed the mission and he doesnt shoot even if you dont press a thing, Abigail shoots him regardless and then your followrd by Pinkertons which follow you to camp.
@@gregrobinette8620 The only reason Micah burned down the Adler home was to keep the gang in Colter during the storm. Most of his actions are based in forcing the gang into bad situations, unfortunately for Micah the members of the gang are mostly competent.
He was probably setting them up get bushwhacked in Chapter 3 when he suggested that camp in a large open field that screams "Ambush me".
He might not have been rat until after he got snatched after failed heist in Saint Denis, but he was planning to off everyone and run off with the money well before that.
3:13 seeing how intently Kieran is staring in this cutscene always makes me laugh.
@horriblepancake what are they supposed to do ?
You know what’s funny, even characters like Kieran and Strauss have their gun out at the end of this scene lol… Really shows that everyone was loyal to Dutch. Even micah was probably still loyal at this point.
Well he was also ready to gun down Milton to protect dutch, if anything, this also proved how loyal he was to the gang now
@@jemoder196 i found something funny about Strauss,at Shady Belle if there's any snake nearby Strauss debt mission, he will run toward the snake and stomp it, i was like goddamn Staruss
Kieran is a The Office character
"When i come back i'll be with 50 men!"
I think the average body count from Arthur in a high honor run is already like 400 or so
Shit I checked my stats. At least 1K for Arthur BEFORE this cutscene.
I'll be back just to let you know I also have 50 men; I'm giving you all a warning so don't go running anywhere now
@@bladedomega9702 I'll buy a hundred bullets. The extra fifty just incase I miss.
@@unknown_spy_1984 Let me guess, you bumped into someone in Saint Denis?
@@Yougotcaged102 yep. I got a bounty for "Disturbing the Peace". How in the hell do I get that? It went from 5 dollars to 400 dollars in less than 3 minutes.
The thing with Micah is that as he always said, he is a survivor. At that point, Micah wasn't co-operating with the Pinkertons yet, but was a huge hot-headed heap of trouble, nonetheless, he was still willing to cling onto the gang since it allowed him to survive (e.g. Arthur rescuing him from jail when he was about to get hanged) and would protect them as long as they were useful to him. He was trying to use Dutch to his own benefit by whispering in his ear all the time (e.g. talking about the Blackwater money all the time, because he wanted that money so he maximizes his use of the gang) and then after Guarma, he struck a deal with the Pinkertons, so his goals completely change realising that siding with the Pinkertons would benefit him much more than the gang. I think Micah is a beautifully-written antagonist.
I would not call him "beautifully-written".
Micah is a hateful person who may be just a survivor, but I don't buy him not being a rat after Guarma.
It's a detail you can easily miss, but in Micahs Strawberry camp you can find a wanted poster of Dutch. Now this could mean 2 things: he either admire him that much or...he wanted the bounty reward. And since Dutch is a well-known, dangerous criminal he would probably make a deal with the authority.
You can like the game and characters all you want, but it's not perfect nor the best. Sorry.
@@spelareNR14 Nonetheless, one could make an argument that he took the bounty poster off because he found it to be bringing too much attention to the gang, which he wants to maintain in order to achieve his hateful, selfish goals of dirty money. Or perhaps, he was, as you said, considering his choices at that point, definitely didn't strike a deal with the Pinkertons since Milton does say that ever since they got back from Guarma, that's when Micah started to whisper some things to the agency, however, yes, I can give you the argument that he was considering his choices and the value of his loyalty (which he clearly doesn't possess truly, being a slippery snake that ran with multiple different individuals, such as Cleet and Joe, or even, to some extent, Norman from Strawberry, which he kills in the mission "Blessed are the Meek?") to the gang at that point.
I partly disagree. Micah's affinity towards Dutch is more than him just using Dutch. Characters like Micah, ultimately cowards, are drawn to figures of power. They only respect such. Figures like Dutch. We also learned that Micah had a brutal father, so my thinking is that he was also seeking his approval. As some sort of father surrogate. His kowtowing towards Dutch is real. He likes being the respected and approved right hand of a man with power and wisdom.
@@jamesdexter7165 Micah : *a coward*
Also Micah : *hunts Arthur down in whatever ending he chooses for their final battle*
@@XPPlayzMC Micah only went after Arthur when he was on the brink of death, I'd bet money had Arthur not got TB ;and everything else went the same Micah would have ran away.
"Rip Van Winkle" still gets me 😂😂😂😂😂
its actually a reference to something i dont remember what now
@@teodorrada9669 a folk tale
@teodorrada9669 Rip Van Winkle is a character from an old American folk story
'Its man so in love with greed that he has forgotten himself and only found his appetites' sums up dutch pretty well
Lol you say that, but you and many others neglecte to acknowledge the truth in it. What he said is the complete truth. The truth served cold, raw, and harsh. The way the truth is ment to be told. That's what the world persisted of them, and it's only gotten worse now
@@michaelcrabtree1856 But Dutch IS the greedy one. He's willing to lead innocent people to their doom just to take a step forward towards achieving his unrealistic and utopist goals.
@@angryinternetperson6629 i can not argue his greed. Although he is not, NOT the only one who is greedy. But greed can be defined by many forms. Not all bad, and not all of those are to blame. Stress in a situation such as that can cause more than what Dutch had in terms of issues
@@michaelcrabtree1856 He's not the only one who is greedy but the point is that Dutch is unknowingly a hypocrite for describing others as greedy even though he himself is greedy. That's the whole point.
@@angryinternetperson6629 Dutch is just Dutch man. Greedy and selfish yes. Most of them except a few were. But in truth Dutch, and I'm saying this because unlike many people I can actually relate to his situation. Outlaws life. Whether it be Moonshine, Weed, or BANKS. My family has a history of bootlegging and making shine. I grew up in some of it, but the family who taught me what I know died a few years ago and that way of life has almost became impossible on account of the amount of people. But an Outlaw must be right 110% of the time. That right there is alot of stress alone. Then tack on an entire group and the role of an Leader and you get more stress then any 1 man can handle. Dutch had Hosea to carry some of that burden. While Hosea was alive Dutch was able to plan correctly. Dutch had the rough draft, and Hosea put the finishing touches on it to make a final working plan. Dutch got an brain injury, and then Hosea died. I will not say that how Dutch did wasn't wrong because it was. But you must look at ALL ASPECTS of that situation
As much as i despise Strauss for indirectly causing arthur's unfortunate fate its nice to see how even he pulls out a gun to stand up for Dutch in this scene
I don’t think he has a gun
@@sageumbra 3:38
I don't know where he got that gun from, though. He doesn't own a holster.
@winterReinz1230 No it’s a gun look closer
@winterReinz1230 you could’ve just said rifle
I don't blame him for Arthur's fate tbh
“Nobody takes a boy to harm him” this man has never heard of child trafficking
Maybe, but child trafficking wasn’t a prominent business amongst rich plantation owners and city aristocrats.
@@Lolpy. Unless the child was black, of course. Though that wouldve been a few decades before, I guess.
@@JB-xl2jc but jack isnt black. Strange you'd mention that.
@@riverbedfred7352 not that strange
@@riverbedfred7352 Not really, plantations were pretty heavily involved with slavery, and the scars of slavery and the civil war are extremely apparent throughout chapter 3 and the start of 4.
This game is going to live forever. Not the online, obviously the single player.
It’s incredibly sad how rockstar has neglected red dead online
@@bryce5882 Well, tbh Rockstar have also abandoned the story mode, only to continue gta online. The story mode for red dead, has soooo much dlc potential, but instead Rockstar just dropped its new child on the head and left it where it is at the moment.
@@foodafen7406 I agree. I've always said at the least we could have a Blackwater Heist DLC playing as the Calendar Brothers.
@@isaactoler2330 In my opinion, if Rockstar were to expand on Red Dead, they should keep the Blackwater job a mystery. Leaving fans to wonder on what went wrong.
If Rockstar was willing to make a DLC, I'd prefer if it started when the gamg was thriving, about a few years before the gang got to Blackwater, then events lead up to 1899 just before the heist begins.
A shame the SP got downgraded for online, and then R* ditched that.
No one wins.
Love that Strauss was there with a gun, even if you'd think he was adverse to getting his hands dirty
Strauss was always loyal even after Arthur kicked him out of the camp he never ratted out the gang the reason why he got himself killed by the pinkertons
tbh i don't think he didn't want to get his hands dirty. i think the reason he resorted to "usery" (money lending) instead of robbing and gunslinging like the rest of them, is simply because he was too old and didn't have the skill. likely never learned/developed how to shoot well (or at least well enough to not get killed in the process), and now he's too old to do anything physical like that without the skill to back it up. so he does what he can/the only thing he knows how to do. nevertheless he did love the gang and was loyal to them to the end, even though they kicked him out and he could have sold them out to spite them. but he didn't. so not surprised even he grabbed a gun (his or not, there was surely plenty of guns lying around an outlaw camp, not like he couldn't have just grabbed the nearest one lmao) ready to defend and potentially die for his family if need be.
"It's man so in love with greed... He has forgotten himself and found only appetites." Is still my favorite line in this game. So true of the America we live in today
this scene is so fucking good, the line delivery from both dutch and milton, the confidence from both of them. what a game.
The game could have ended right there with a cutscene of growing mangos in Tahiti. Milton and Ross where outnumbered. But I always wondered if they had backup in the trees.
The way I saw it is there's no way they would have went in without a plan. They probably had men waiting outside for a certain time and if the two didn't come back then they'd go in and kill the gang
@@carl_consumer.of.reality 100%
@@carl_consumer.of.reality I've always thought the same but then why wouldn't Milton and Ross go straight back in with the men they had waiting after the gang refused the offer? 🤷♂️
They definetily had those 50 men with them already, and the gang was all clustered together, it wouldve been a turkey shoot.
The problem with this, them having *"backup in the trees"* is if this was the case, then logically they would've just ran their pockets then and there. As soon as Milton and Ross left line of sight, they could've sent them in. The gang would've been at their mercy.
I think it is more likely Milton and Ross stumbled across the gang after asking about town, *(the old Confederate Veteran warns Morgan of this, if you interact with him enough).* In their hubris, Milton and Ross stroll into camp to make *"Dutch's Boys"* an offer he believes they cannot refuse. Give us Dutch and we'll leave the rest of you alone. Assuming lowlifes have no honor, or sense of loyalty. That greed is what ultimately drives this way of life. However most of them see Dutch as a father and that's where his offer fell. He got cocky, and that could've cost him and Ross their lives.
You also have to consider Milton's choice of words, *"I'll give the rest of you three days to run off".* This tells me that he didn't have backup with him, and that they were acting as private investigators. However, realistically most don't have time to analyze all of that in the heat of the moment. So its somewhat understandable, why they'd let him go. Even if that choice wasn't the smartest decision.
I love that Lenny is already the only one pointing a rifle at Milton's head. He's the first to draw a gun on them.
One of my favorite scenes. Back when the gang with tight and together.
i love when dutch says “Agent Moron” 💀💀
Milton was right when he said "You're making a big mistake"
I love how milton threatens the gang with 50 men while arthur could single handedly kill double of that with enough ammo and dead eye tonics
yeah its a damn game, it would be more realistic if we killed far less in the game, but then people would say its boring and more like a playable movie.
0:17 looking into Arthur's eyes tells everything. Moneh/10 performance there.
Love how almost nobody in the comments is talking about Micah.
1:05 *rip van wrinkle*
In Willzyyy's version and GTA Series's version Micah isn't present when Milton and Ross enter. I also remember one time I saw him walking in the background as the 2 enter. Either theres a bug that prevents his character model from spawning in the cinematic cutscene or Rockstar created 2 cutscenes and this was done as a way of hinting his betrayal. Proof is below.
th-cam.com/video/mjjzN6EvQSw/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/e8tRvV-_oSA/w-d-xo.html
Good catch, I never noticed this
Real rat is John Marston
Bro I thought I was the only one thinking like I never seen Micah in this scene
There’s no reason Micah should be away from camp at this point in the story so it’s more likely that it was a bug and maybe it got patched since Micah always seems to appear in the cutscene now
Even Kieran had his gun out. He was loyal to the gang
Iöile how even Kieran is ready to defend Dutch an the Gang, so sad that he died like he did...
ironic dutch describes his arc when responding to milton
Usually Micah was somewhere in the background walking around but on my last playthrough he also appeared among them and it was confusing
Seriously I never understood why they didn’t just kill Milton and Ross here. They’re completely alone so it’s not like the gang had to worry about any retaliation, they’re already wanted, and they’ve promised to return and kill them all (or at least Dutch and probably Arthur and Hosea). There are only positives to killing them here and quite literally zero negatives.
the power of plot armor! lol same with the jack fishin trip.
its somehow even more incredibly painful if youve played RDR1
they'd just assign different agents it wouldn't have solved anything and it would've got them attention they didn't want
Probably because they have a whole unit outside the camp?
Speaking of the fishing scene with Jack, the only reason Arthur didn't kill Milton and Ross then and there, and he would have since he was reaching for his gun, was to spare Jack from potentially being traumatized.
@@SolarWinner2000 what about seeing a bulled riddled father?
lol arthurrr take the shot
“I don’t expect you to understand this…” damn Dutch you really have a way of telling a man he’s stupid without telling him he’s stupid.
"Agent Moron." good thing to say Dutch.
0:29 "What do you think second john?"
Wow, at 3:33 I just noticed that he says "all of you will die" to the ones who do die, but the ones alive in the epilogue are behind him (Micah, Sadie, Pearson and Charles).
What the fuck? Marston and Dutch are both alive and well during the Epilogue and they're in front of him. Strauss is behind him and he's dead on the Epilogue.
@@Elias6233 Both Marston and Dutch die in RdR die though at the hands of the government, by agent Ross in the shot.
@@raoulduke344 Yeah, but that's not how you phrased it. You said "the ones alive in the epilogue are behind him" - both Dutch and Marston are alive in the Epilogue. If you're going by the logic of "the ones who get killed by the government are in front of Milton" then Javier should be in front of him, too, considering he gets killed in RDR1.
@@Elias6233 that's true.
@@Elias6233 you can let Javier live
"To what do I owe the pleasure, Agent Moron"
Fucking gottem lol
loved how milton got a bit uneasy when he heard the guns come out
You're right, how odd! Other videos of this cutscene are spilt 50/50 between him being there and him being missing. I don't remember this part of the story too well; is he elsewhere waiting to trigger a mission for some players, depending on which order they complete things?
No cause this happens directly after the shoot out in Rhodes where Sean gets shot it's Arthur, Micah and bill against sheriff gray, his family and deputies
@@dynamicender no, this cutscene plays after “blood feuds, ancient and modern”
@@dynamicender After that, they go to the Braithwaite Mansion, which Micah was told to stay at camp for. Then this scene automatically plays. There's no reason he should be gone as far as i know
btw molly didnt say nothing as milton confirms it
Damn, poor Kieran, he stood for Dutch as well. He was truly part of the gang.
I just noticed Kieran had his gun out, that feller problably wouldn't be there if I had used the gelding tongs, I was so exited that day I almost sh#% my pants
even Kieran is holding his sidearm
1:32 Micha looks so offended lmao
This scene irks me... why they don't blast both of them after the threat of fifty men is beyond me!!
Because thats the worst thing they could have done. They clearly didn't enter without eyes in the distance and if they killed them the pinkertons would have done what Ross did in RDR1 when he attacked Johns ranch. They're giving them a chance and by killing them it shows they don't care about morality.
Just because those two would have died doesn't mean the bounty would just disappear.
@@RyanTheMalamute No it wouldn't, but see it this way. Milton was the most fanatic Pinkerton wanting to see Dutch swing, and he probably was the brains behind all the operations against the Van der Linde gang. Killing Milton and Ross there would definitely buy the gang some valuabe time and set the Pinkertons back big time.
Only reason I can think of as to why they didn't floor Milton and Ross here is because they expected an army of agents on standby shouldn't both of them return.
Some sort of literary 'divine stalemate' - If Milton had brought 50 men with him here, or if Dutch had given the order after the threat- either could have ended the story right then and there.
Because it would just draw even more attention towards them
rip van winkle the one and only
This is the moment Rip Van Winkle became American Venom
Dutch always thought of himself... used every single gang memeber till the end for to only benefit himself... this is the sad reality of This game.... THERE was a time when I used to blame Micah and Molly for all of this but now... it's Dutch... Micah just motivated Dutch and made him feel that he was doing right... Micah was just a Rat... Dutch was the Big Game... O Van Der Linde... There was a time when you were my favourite... so CHARISMATIC PERSONALITY... But... Reality is often disappointing
Same. Even after multiple playthroughs I wanted to still love Dutch. I still do, at least pre-Guarma. But it took me a long time to cope with the fact that this fictional character I admired so much was not a good person at heart lol.
Exactly. Everyone always says that Dutch was a good man and him bumping his head changed him but the game subtly implies Dutch was always that way. Arthur even says too “Dutch ain’t himself right now, or maybe he just wasn’t who we thought he was” And John in the epilogue also says “You saw a man who’s character changed, I saw a man who got found out for what he really was” to Sadie, and I’d trust Johns judgement over Sadie’s over the simple fact that John knew Dutch 15 years longer than Sadie did
@@josephstalin2606 Yeah, it's weird how many people blame the head injury for the whole thing, as if the very first chapter isn't about Dutch doing stupid things that he wouldn't normally do.
second mission in the game: Dutch shot a girl in a "bad way" which "ain't like him". He then risks going after O'Driscoll and then robbing the Cornwall train, while they're still in Colter nearly dying. His whole ordeal with Cornwall and also the Grays and Braithewaites, and Bronte, were all to show how bad his judgement had gotten and how stubborn and narcissistic he really is.
Have you played the first game? Seeing Dutch's transformation from the first game to the end
why dafuq did you blame Molly?
This video was made 1 year ago today. Happy birthday
I think its such a cool bit of visual story telling that kieran takes out his gun after everyone (you seem him shift when they tell milton to get out)
Micah's always been part of this scene since day one of the game being released
Sometimes he doesn't show up at the cutscene
He was not in my mine
Micah doesn’t show up here for everyone, for some he can be seen walking around in the camp in the background, this is an interesting detail from rockstar.
@@AntiDegenerate1971 Or maybe its just a glitch
Idk why but that wrip van winkle line was raw
3:39 Lenny didn't look too pleased with being called 'Boy'
I dont think you know what that meant to black people back then
@@CorYxKeNshun yeah, he was being quite racist through the entirety of his encounter.
@@CorYxKeNshun what did it mean?
@@Coaster31641 thats what slave owners called the slaves if im not mistaken
@@CorYxKeNshun Yea "Boy" was a term of disrespect used towards slaves. Even for years after, calling the hired help (Waiters and the ilke) "Boy" was an extreme putdown
I often wonder what made the gang draw their guns in unison. Maybe a code word in the sentence Dutch had spoken. Because he didn’t finish it when the gun were drawn
You're over thinking it lol
He was being overly sarcastic and offered that to make a point knowing that no one in the gang would allow that to happen on their watch. Wasn’t about code words, just a plain old power move lol
I love how even tho he was basically kidnapped, Kieran still had his gun drawn and ready to fight for these people
and even Strauss did
The hypnotic power of Dutch Van Der Linde
Idk if he does this anymore throughout the game but i just noticed that dutch doesn't call John his son he instead calls him "brother" unlike with Arthur he always calls him his son and then in the first game bill Williamson says that dutch has always wanted to kill John which makes since now
He calls him son more than he says it to Arthur. Just look at the ending when he comes out of the cabin.
Arthur was closer to Hosea, but wasn't appreciated by Dutch as much as he should have been. Hosea wished to be closer to John but John always shrugged him off.
gotta give it to the agent he’s right when he made that statement 1:55
Bro I never noticed kieren pulls his gun out, young man was ready
even Kieran was all about the smoke
More like Pearson, we a knew Kieran was that guy
@@CorYxKeNshun u right pearson was in the navy but u right
I was tpp busy pissing myself laughing at "rip van winkle" to notice anything in the cutscene.
Another thing with this cutscene is that Sadie’s hair is also different sometimes
Can’t help but think it would have been an opportune moment to bury Milton before he left after his declaration of war.
few days ago i was getting 100 percent completation all i had rest to do was complete the story and do what i needed to do as john and i saw this and i really said to myself "wait what really micah is in this scene i thought he was the one that told milton where the camp was" ( EDIT: after watching i decided to look if he actually is suppose to be here or not bc a while back i saw a video saying he was the only one who wasnt, and he isnt suppose to be there idk if it has something to do with honor or just a slight update bc it didnt make sense in story (bc he doesnt start talking until after the guarma chapter) or what but either way its cool to know that its different now)
1:32 Dang, even Micah looks like he’s at a loss for words.
Y’all see Kieran holding his gun
Bro Dutch says "Trust Me" and all I hear is the Snake from Jungle Book that scaly prick sang a whole song about trusting him while hypnotizing the boy. Dude really hissed like he had a snake tongue in this scene.
0:39 "For nothing."
Are you serious bro, how the f* else were they supposed to find Jack? Ask nicely?!?!
milton acting like arthur cant solo 50 men by himself
Ooh dutch i warmed you dutch mr milton doesnt stop
Man, even Rip van winkle was ready to throw hands. I wonder where John was when this happened
those agents are too chill, why do i have a feeling an army of snipers were watching them with rolling blocks and long scopes?
micah had his hands at his guns he was ready to kill them
“And to what do we owe the pleasure? Agent Moron?”
What I don't get is why they dont kill milton the second he turns his back. Both times he shows up, threatens and drolls on, and walks calmly away like hes exiting stage right in some kinda play. It wouldn't get rid of the law, but it would buy them time if the person in charge of the hunt was gone. The gang was soft enough to let him go free when, again, they shouldve riddled his ass with bullets, multiple times. In that sense they reaped what they sowed.
2:10 that was cold af
Of course he was there. His boss called a meeting.
Hoseas the only member who never drew his weapons he doesnt want any more killing.
Interesting, I just did that mission yesterday and noticed Micah was standing outside camp leaning against a tree, and I thought to myself "he clearly doesn't care about anyone but himself" then I see this video today.
Dutch: "I am nothing but a seeker, Mr. Milton."
---
Blind Man Cassidy to Arthur in one of many prophecies he says: "Run from the seeker, sir. Run and keep running, or help others to run."
That “ boy “ hit hard lol 🤣🤣🤣
This is the only moment In the game where Agent Milton and Ross could have been killed without any problems. That is because at the time Jack wasn't there so there's no reason to worry about him seeing dead people and plus the entire gang was there at the time which declared an automatic victory.
Oh shit.... the old blind fortune teller just told me to run from the seeker and I had no idea what that was in reference to.
Rip van Winkle lookin fresh as ever
"When i return ill be with fifty men" this gang has won shoot outs with morethan fifty men on multiple occasions. Fifty men would only be a fair fight if it was hand to hand
Interesting that 3 armed Pinkertons able to get that deep into the camp without anyone saying anything
He was always in my game in this scene played this game 30 times an still playing it an finding new things amazing this game is love it 💕
I mean Milton gave them a pretty good deal, more then what most of them deserved.
What a scene, by the way look at Micah's hand twitch at 3:28 l.mao
See Mr. Boss Fuck the World? He IS in this scene! I had to make a picture when I saw him bruh.
Sad to say that Agent Milton was right about Dutch all along
I like how the gang had multiple chances to kill both Milton and Ross but didnt
mr milton gave a good offer
When Dutch said about "Mr. Milton" I immediatly thought about Jim Milton, oh no sorry Rip Van Winkle
Meanwhile Uncle's think'n.
Bill just peeing in the background
Milton might understand what the last gangs are going through, but he also understands there’s no stopping the spread of the government. He has to do his job, his own gov will kill or shame him if he doesn’t.
Even kerin pulled his gun
Even Kieran pulled the gun out
Agent milton: and who r u?
John: Rip van winkle😠
🤣🤣🤣
They didn't know his name or anything about him until Micah ratted that's the fucked up part
"When i come back, I'll be with fifty men!"
Dutch: So Arthur and John then
Arthur: i reckon Marston can handle it on his own... Long as they don't bring any dogs with them
If anybody can't find it first time 'round, 3:28 - 3:32 left side of the screen,
There’s no way “Agent Moron” believed John when he said his name is Rip Van Winkle. Also Dutch’s line of “and to what do we owe the pleasure… Agent Moron?” Is funny as ever hearing Dutch call Milton, agent moron.
I feel like Dutch & Hosea both thought Jack could be theirs.