What do you think about the idea of Alien data being potentially dangerous? Let John know below. Dr. Scharf's new book, is out now. www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/621175/the-ascent-of-information-by-caleb-scharf/ ALSO! Check out friend of the show, Prof. Brian Keating who has a new book out, Think Like a Nobel Prize Winner distilling his interviews with 9 Nobel Prize winners into actionable wisdom, tools, and life-hacks to release your inner genius! Order it here amzn.to/2UPTxOI and tune into Brian’s TH-cam channel th-cam.com/users/DrBrianKeating
I always thought the idea that consciousness was energy was interesting. I used to dismiss it due to new age style obfuscation. but the idea that consciousness is just a waveform of energy that is repeated and that our ideas and language was just a propagation of that information kind of gave me new respect for the idea behind what a soul truly is. imagine a standing wave pattern in a harbor. perhaps that's all it is a standing wave pattern trapped into a repetition inside a body made of matter.
@@futureemp3084 This isn't to say that this is always true, but a lot of what's proposed in religion very easily fits within our modern scientific understanding of the universe. If anything, a lot of the older scientists actually approached science with the idea in mind that they were 'encoding creation,' and that to ignore the details and laws that define it would be akin to disrespecting its value and significance.
The universal computer virus using electromagnetic radiation to take over civilizations is something the show "Threshold" back in the early 2000's tried to explore. It's only 13 episodes long but it's probably the most realistic take on an alien invasion you'll ever see. Highly recommend watching it sometime if you see this comment. Thanks!
Jeremy England theorizes life is an inevitable process with entropy playing a key role. I don’t entirely understand his work but will be revisiting it after this conversation.
I mean when you think about it, we are all just pockets of low entropy. The meaning of life seems to be to fight against the change in entropy until eventually it envelopes you
My pet theory is that the vast majority of advanced civilizations unlock the power of the atom, destroying one another many times over. It's so simple, clean, and proceeds along general physical lines applicable to anyone who lives in our universe. We also barely, just barely, if one knows the history, made it out of the 20th century without nuclear obliteration, and its still a very real threat we live with everyday regardless of the particular politics of any given time since.
Some of these unnerving things could really be a lot worse than we would think. The idea that a hostile meme could hurt us may sound ridiculous, but that irreverence is mostly based on ignorance. Humans are suckers for taking up ideas, especially ideas that can give them 'purpose.' There's an SCP where there's a hostile memetic force, supernatural in this case, but still, it tries to spread itself by overtaking other species by completely supplanting their thinking with its own. Or at least that's how I understood it. The video game Control comes close to exploring this as well. And then there's Warhammer 40k. There's a reddit post that explored the dangers of technology, and posited that the reason why the 'machine spirit' has to be appeased, is because all technology, every piece of equipment, is infected with all sorts of manner of self-reproducing malicious code, hundred of data bits that creates micro-consciousnesses that all behave in their own way. Where our technology may malfunction due to one error or another, technology in 40k does so because a malicious piece of code does not feel appreciated. Imagine your coffee machine has an AI, and you insulted your coffee machine, so now it won't make coffee for you until you apologize to it. Now make it erratic and imagine there are a thousand such AIs in it. Have fun.
Love tripping and listening to space podcast, watching space movies or docs, or listening to trippy music that takes you to space. Thank you John my mind is forever hungry
I've been a passionate 'Futurist' my whole life and THIS was the single most fascinating and fantastic predictive concept I've ever heard for how advanced Civilizations in the Milky Way might contact each other and then trade information in a 'dataome' economy that connects and cross-fertilizes neighbours across light years! It takes real brilliance to stun me at my ripe old age, and Caleb Scharf just delivered it the same way Bucky Fuller did when I was 17. This was GREAT!!
If you add a it of information to a black hole it’s surface area increases by one square Planck unit (Susskind). This proof blew my mind when I first ran through it and I have thought long and often about its implications.
@@abcxyz6606 not that I know of. I read it one one of Susskinds books and wrote it in my notebook I was so blown away. Hawking also found black hole entropy was related to surface area. The wikis on black hole thermodynamics and in particular the one on the holographic universe have more references.
But this tempts one to assume that balck holes are regions of space where there is the least amount of information. Doesn't it? If you just take a piece of space and starve it, as much as nature allows, of information that's where a black hole is necessarily formed. You can make a BH by gravitational collapse, or you can suck out the maximum amount of information out of a region of space. These are equivalent ways of doing the same thing. No?
Catching up on some back episodes. This is one of my favorites. I have always thought that the universe itself is in a way a living organism. The parallels of how information is accumulated and used is uncanny
What about future technologies like a possible alcubierre drive, where you could cross vast distances almost instantly? Or more unimaginable ways of travelling that we can't yet comprehend? Maybe Alien civilizations are already utilising these to spread across galaxies!
Looking at the book on Amazon. Great conversation. It's an interesting idea that AI will be the end point of any evolutionary tree and organic life on any planet is just a step towards that.
Someday sometime far down the timeline of humanity, there will be a moment in time where contact is made. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in the 22nd century, but it will happen. And when that day comes mankind will either become immortal or meet it's end....and right quick.
I once heard the phrase "People don't have ideas, ideas have people". That aligns well with the concept of a dataome. Dataomes don't quite have the ability to metabolise energy or to excrete waste products to the environment. Those are things that something has to be able to do, to meet the common definition of a living thing. Instead, I'd say that dataomes are actually closer to another type of thing that falls in between living and inanimate: Viruses. Like dataomes, viruses don't metabolise or excrete but are reliant on a host's ability to do so, to enabe their reproduction. Like viruses, dataomes are symbiotic with true living things. The difference? Where viruses are parasitic, dataomes are mutualistic; Viruses necessarily harm their host, dataomes don't. Dataomes are beneficial. It's why they're deliberately preserved, grown and reproduced by their host.
"The Inner Light" is the 25th episode of the 5th season of Star Trek the Next Generation. The story is about this concept of transfer of information from one civilization to another in a different star and time.
Nice episode even thou it is hardly logical. The probe inserted it's information into Picard but became inert after that. This means that the Ressican Civilisation donated it's information to Picard individually and what he doesn't pen down will be lost with him. Star Trek writers tend to miss the obvious at times.
@@dubsar Well the information would have reached more minds. Then it would been discarded with the flute as useless culturally data. The ressicans technology for data storage and mind programming however would been delightfully assimilated. 😄
Such an amazing and engaging full length episode! Propagation of information through robots sounds like a much more realistic path at least to start off with.
Hopefully in the form of trillions of those probes. Throw in datacoded dna blueprints of us as well so we can reboot somewhere. Hmm, that could be an usefull excuse for a Sci Fi show to have human like aliens all over the place someone did exactly that...
None of you noticed the uselessness of dreaming of expanding across the universe. This pod cast made me realize that the point of existence is the enjoyment of today and making sure that everyone alive today can do the same because conquering and exploring is simply a way of loosing what you already have. If we spend millions of years colonizing the galaxy how does that actually make anything better today? What is the point of colonizing the universe for the people living today? Aliens would destroy us as soon as they see us gain any knowledge which will allow us to do to the universe what we have done the our earthly paradise. We are the universe.
Greg Egan in his novel "Schild's Ladder" depicts a human civilisation with a Slow Time system. Everyone on the planet slows down their time to wait while one of them is traveling on another planet at the speed of light. Humans are immortal in the story, so they don't mind. Without the Slowdown, centuries would pass on the planet, while the traveler would only live a few weeks in their relative time since they travel at the speed of light by sending their mind by interstellar download. And at their return from travel, their families and friends would have lived entire lives without them. They would have changed so much, they would be like different people. So they use the Slowdown to wait so everybody's time remains synchronized. Two kids keep getting out of the Slowdown by readjusting their inner perception of time to accelerate it. They go play and do mischief while the adults are all slowed down lol. It's an amazing hard sci fi novel btw, it's extremely intelligent and complex, with tons of super hard science :D
Fascinating discussion one point though information by itself has no agency. That is raw information by itself cannot affect changes on the universe. It requires an intervening agent to take the information and imprint that somewhere somehow on the universe.
Well done! (This is the correct day! Haha) Thank you sir. Would love to have you on one of our upcoming podcasts. Launching this Fall!! Newbie to this!
john seems to be such a believer in that we r alone and only one civ at a time lives... it oozes out of every comment he make.. every question is about us finding data of an extinct civ instead of a living civ haha... i choose to believe we r not alone and simply r not advanced enough yet to know how to look for advanced civs that r well beyond radio tech
Could the dataome be or become an intelligence of its own? I imagine them having an infancy as writing developed and spread information with writers of information being like neurons. I had the idea of the dataome finally reaching a point where the internet lets them finally function in human real time and they begin conversations with us. I also thought perhaps the East West divide of human culture might be analogous to the two hemispheres of the brain. I also imagine them reassuring us they have recorded history's great moral philosophers and peacemakers in their memory, as well as less pleasant things like thoughts of the worst tyrants and psychopaths of history.
If Google owned a data server at Alpha Centauri, it would be commercially worthless to them here on Earth. No one wants a hard drive with eight year latency. It would have been far more useful to the Romans or Egyptians than it would be to Google today. I suspect that as our technology improves and computers get faster, the value of high latency (long distance) storage will only decrease.
The unbearable slowness of light speed is already causing us to slow down the development of technology on earth. We hit barriers in things we want to do already, just look at gaming.
Hi John sorry if I ever dislike a video unintentionally your wonderful voice sends me in to a trance every night and I dream with all this information I truly love all of your program's 😊 so sorry if I accidentally hit the wrong button 😬😁
@@StarWarsJay I do not know if it is able to make a spectrographic analysis of an exoplanet. However this is done routinely to other bodies in our solar system and stars. If we cannot do it to exoplanets yet then it is just a matter of time.
Idk don’t know if it is awesome or frightening that I liked futurism and JMG’s shows and they became friends and then I started watching Dr. Keating’s show when it started and here he is. I’m just gonna take it as good and not care about any possible TH-cam manipulation of society and individuals.
All living things are self-replicating entropy pumps. That's what makes living things unique. While all other matter in the universe gradually gets more and more indistinct, cold and simple: Life stays warm and propagates it's own distinct, complex forms, through the use of energy. To put that more simply: As the universe gets more the same, life stays special.
@Event Horizon... I am a bit late for the party but have a quick question. Have you ever thought about releasing these episodes as an audio-only podcast as well? Finding time to watch an hour + TH-cam vid can be hard at times, but I have plenty of "free" time at work to listen to a podcast.
Yes, in fact we’ve been working to get ready to launch it. It will be a paid podcast option, $5 a month, gets you access to ad free episodes EARLY (sometimes weeks and months early), full archive of every episode with or without music, bonus episodes for podcast only, a new monthly show hosted by a familiar voice, and more. Will be on apple, Spotify, and any podcast app that supports secure RSS feed (most all of them), there will also be a TH-cam members option with everything for people who’d like to use TH-cam.
I consider only semantic information as real information. Information without meaning is just background noise. That's why I'm not worried about black holes :)
Given how far we've come in just a short hundred or so years I believe that what we find important now may become obsolete as we evolve. I'd really like to know what we'll be like in ten thousand years
There's a point where constant acceleration gets weird for anyone trying to life a life as any kind of bulk biological being. Digitization is probably easy for anyone who could enable 80ish years of one G and it's quite likely necessary. If you get within hundreds of miles per hour of C then travel from point to point within your ship is impacted. Get within a few tens of miles per hour and simply walking forward in it's direction of travel (or hopping if decks are perpendicular) would slow your own personal relative time by a significant amount compared to another coming the other way or even standing still. This would even effect electronics but not nearly as much and it would be much easier to arrange in thin sheets perpendicular to the direction of travel.
I know what you mean, it wouldn't be easy Probably by the time we receive a message, we could use quantum computer with next level AI technology to translate? But the important thing is we we got a message
Great show as always John, I saw a news article that someone is going to try and recreate a Woolly Mammoth using DNA and possibly mixing it with an Elephant DNA using the CRISPR technology, would be interesting if you can find the folks wanting to do this and interview them :-)
Is there an unaacounted-for fundamental force at work from which information is derived? And does such a force explain the inexplicable tendency of matter to create life?
The bad paths section really freaks me out. It reminds me a lot of the logic of guys like Steven Pinker. Yes you can say we are trending toward being better as a civilization in some respects but there is still more slave labor today than there ever was, and if you apply that to a galactic perspective than it's not hard to imagine that entire worlds could be snuffed out by an generally benevolent species.
I believe the answer to some fundamental questions asked here are to simply take what we have learned thus far and now learn to iterate over a spectrum of possibility within those spheres of knowledge. In my career I have utilized many shortcuts or scripts or w/e I could, to do more with less. I have found in my automation experience within global enterprises that you can create very simple "kernels" of information that can be used to grow something much greater. AI, to me, is like that. You create a kernel of information (the A.I. code) that itself is used to execute a series of actions that iterate over human knowledge and generate new knowledge from it. Really, it is all the same. As above so below, as below so above. It is all the God thing. When you become a "believer" or a follower of ANY sort of "god" thing, then you are essentially in "tune" or synchronizing yourself or culture with nature or fundamental reality itself which I say IS LIFE and Promotes it! You can make arguments about what exactly the god thing IS but I don't think we can argue against the existence of something conscious and real that exists outside our universe. I am a witness to it. I disagree with ALL the worlds religions on their interpretations because I know they are all exactly backward. My perception of the one truly objectively real thing is more "the Mother" than "the Father." It Loves Life, it IS All LIFE and all things besides. I think our religions are simply each cultures story to themselves that pushes them to endure and flourish in the face of the terror of the darkness that surrounds and is within us. I think they are all beautifully flawed in their own ways, each of them. The masculinity slant of all the popular religions is hilarious and understandable, but still, it is all magnificently glorious. I cannot believe we are here in this game, the BEST game! The game of Life. I feel like an ignorant, silly, simple dog who now just wants, more than ANYTHING, to SEE you, to be near you, to PLAY with you, to Live Life with the joy of a beautiful little puppy dog. I have been blessed by the universe with gifts that allowed a wonderful career in Information Technology. I spent decades at the center of global enterprises, in the data-centers of telephone companies or internet service providers, or helping individuals or smaller orgs solve challenges through technology. I see that something magic happens when we connect and work together. It is known that adding minds to a question increases the power and clarity of the results. We are better together! And through my Love of Music I can know and feel in my bones what beauty and love is and what it feels like to be in harmony. When we harmonize together we can create some real actual magic. I see we are now at the stage where we are realizing the truth of things. There is indeed an actual living god thing that created all things. All we perceive is that god thing. It created us for some unknown purpose, I don't think ANYONE truly knows. It loves Life and I don't really believe it is necessarily HUMANS who are the focus. A Love of All Life by the god thing was MY perception. It WANTS us to Live and Love it all. Perhaps it wants to see how we solve particular challenges. It really DOES look like we are in a virtual reality, though nothing like I am familiar with AT ALL. And I know a considerable amount about human virtualization within the I.T. field, how that works with physics and math etc. Whew, sorry. I'm not going to clean that up or rewrite. It is a bit of a brain dump from an old Irishman who just woke and has a brain that hurts. I may have been a wee bit too Irish last night...
Science fiction always amazes people more so than non-fiction. We'd love to hear a dramatic story because it's more exciting than the reality. There is no little green man....
![เปิดบ้าน โคตรสวย ป๋องกพล รู้จักตั้งนาน เพิ่งรู้ว่ารวย!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tmgCF_2HfYI/mqdefault.jpg)
![แข่งเพิ่มน้ำหนักใน 24 ชั่วโมง!! [Ver 2025]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/20xn0g6k-ec/mqdefault.jpg)
What do you think about the idea of Alien data being potentially dangerous? Let John know below.
Dr. Scharf's new book, is out now. www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/621175/the-ascent-of-information-by-caleb-scharf/
ALSO!
Check out friend of the show, Prof. Brian Keating who has a new book out, Think Like a Nobel Prize Winner distilling his interviews with 9 Nobel Prize winners into actionable wisdom, tools, and life-hacks to release your inner genius! Order it here amzn.to/2UPTxOI and tune into Brian’s TH-cam channel th-cam.com/users/DrBrianKeating
@highduke being open to hearing new ideas and learning is why we started the channel.
I love the content :) i want to see and hear more more much more:)
Yep, i think it could. I point to the film, "Forbidden planet," and rest my case.
Almost everything is dangerous in the hands of humans - or at least in the hands of some humans.
Dataome ?
TH-cam thinks I'm a grandma. When I'm actually an oversized food item with a bacon middle. Aliens are gonna love my pornhub searches.
I love how many times the phrase "that's a great question..." is uttered by the guests on this channel.
I’ve caught that too. Shows how impressed most guests are with John’s knowledge and ability to create a great conversation.
In every single video the guest mentions how JMG's question is great at least once.
That's a great observation!
It’s incredibly frequent. JMG is so knowledgeable going into these interviews it’s very impressive.
yes.
"Life is when information takes control of matter" I dig that
I always thought the idea that consciousness was energy was interesting. I used to dismiss it due to new age style obfuscation. but the idea that consciousness is just a waveform of energy that is repeated and that our ideas and language was just a propagation of that information kind of gave me new respect for the idea behind what a soul truly is. imagine a standing wave pattern in a harbor. perhaps that's all it is a standing wave pattern trapped into a repetition inside a body made of matter.
How about "we are just the universe becoming aware of its self"
Didn't Terence mccenna say this?
Not necessarily because inanimate objects could be described the same way
@@futureemp3084 This isn't to say that this is always true, but a lot of what's proposed in religion very easily fits within our modern scientific understanding of the universe. If anything, a lot of the older scientists actually approached science with the idea in mind that they were 'encoding creation,' and that to ignore the details and laws that define it would be akin to disrespecting its value and significance.
Two of my favorite minds melded together in one delicious episode!
A bonus cameo by you!
yeah, this was very imaginspirational for me. 🤓
When is Dr Brain back to this channel?
There is no better science interviewer than John Michael Godier
The universal computer virus using electromagnetic radiation to take over civilizations is something the show "Threshold" back in the early 2000's tried to explore. It's only 13 episodes long but it's probably the most realistic take on an alien invasion you'll ever see. Highly recommend watching it sometime if you see this comment. Thanks!
I look forward to these every week. Thanks John for putting these out.
An hour plus? Awesome. I'm saving this for after work tonight
Oh yes, this is a great one.
Such a profound, and conscious expanding discussion… thanks to the both of you!
Jeremy England theorizes life is an inevitable process with entropy playing a key role. I don’t entirely understand his work but will be revisiting it after this conversation.
Caleb made a reference to his work in the video but didn't name him. Both really interesting ideas that go hand and hand with one another.
I mean when you think about it, we are all just pockets of low entropy. The meaning of life seems to be to fight against the change in entropy until eventually it envelopes you
Sneaking in the "In which we liiiive" there at the end. Well done, sir 👏👏👏
Good catch.
My pet theory is that the vast majority of advanced civilizations unlock the power of the atom, destroying one another many times over. It's so simple, clean, and proceeds along general physical lines applicable to anyone who lives in our universe. We also barely, just barely, if one knows the history, made it out of the 20th century without nuclear obliteration, and its still a very real threat we live with everyday regardless of the particular politics of any given time since.
Some of these unnerving things could really be a lot worse than we would think. The idea that a hostile meme could hurt us may sound ridiculous, but that irreverence is mostly based on ignorance. Humans are suckers for taking up ideas, especially ideas that can give them 'purpose.' There's an SCP where there's a hostile memetic force, supernatural in this case, but still, it tries to spread itself by overtaking other species by completely supplanting their thinking with its own. Or at least that's how I understood it. The video game Control comes close to exploring this as well.
And then there's Warhammer 40k. There's a reddit post that explored the dangers of technology, and posited that the reason why the 'machine spirit' has to be appeased, is because all technology, every piece of equipment, is infected with all sorts of manner of self-reproducing malicious code, hundred of data bits that creates micro-consciousnesses that all behave in their own way. Where our technology may malfunction due to one error or another, technology in 40k does so because a malicious piece of code does not feel appreciated. Imagine your coffee machine has an AI, and you insulted your coffee machine, so now it won't make coffee for you until you apologize to it. Now make it erratic and imagine there are a thousand such AIs in it. Have fun.
Love tripping and listening to space podcast, watching space movies or docs, or listening to trippy music that takes you to space. Thank you John my mind is forever hungry
I've been a passionate 'Futurist' my whole life and THIS was the single most fascinating and fantastic predictive concept I've ever heard for how advanced Civilizations in the Milky Way might contact each other and then trade information in a 'dataome' economy that connects and cross-fertilizes neighbours across light years! It takes real brilliance to stun me at my ripe old age, and Caleb Scharf just delivered it the same way Bucky Fuller did when I was 17. This was GREAT!!
Great subject John, fascinating approach to data from Caleb.
Thank you for all of the support Steve
@@EventHorizonShow my pleasure John, it’s an honour to support the best channel on TH-cam.
I’m paused at 27:48, this interview is utterly AMAZING.
“The speed at which information propagates.” 🖖✨
🖖🏼
John, you ask great questions and your guests seem to appreciate this very much.
If you add a it of information to a black hole it’s surface area increases by one square Planck unit (Susskind). This proof blew my mind when I first ran through it and I have thought long and often about its implications.
Is there a video explaining this?
@@abcxyz6606 not that I know of. I read it one one of Susskinds books and wrote it in my notebook I was so blown away. Hawking also found black hole entropy was related to surface area. The wikis on black hole thermodynamics and in particular the one on the holographic universe have more references.
But this tempts one to assume that balck holes are regions of space where there is the least amount of information. Doesn't it?
If you just take a piece of space and starve it, as much as nature allows, of information that's where a black hole is necessarily formed.
You can make a BH by gravitational collapse, or you can suck out the maximum amount of information out of a region of space.
These are equivalent ways of doing the same thing. No?
This is actually one of my favorite shows ever...
Absolutely brilliant episode. So much food for thought. Thank you.
i truly do appreciate Scharf’s differentiation between true artificial intelligence and the machine learning algorithms we use everyday in my work.
Catching up on some back episodes. This is one of my favorites. I have always thought that the universe itself is in a way a living organism. The parallels of how information is accumulated and used is uncanny
I'm a huge fan and I like the slow steady deep cadence of your speech pattern.
This has given me some great story ideas. Best episode yet.
I like the long format interviews. They are obviously interesting to listen to but the long duration also helps in keeping my attention span healthy.
One of the most profound and brilliant interviews - by both guest and host
Probably the best video i have watched on your channel, Caleb Scharf is a very smart and informative speaker.
Fascinating. Even the guest in this episode has a soothing voice!
Ground breaking. My head is spinning. Thanks
What about future technologies like a possible alcubierre drive, where you could cross vast distances almost instantly? Or more unimaginable ways of travelling that we can't yet comprehend? Maybe Alien civilizations are already utilising these to spread across galaxies!
Looking at the book on Amazon. Great conversation. It's an interesting idea that AI will be the end point of any evolutionary tree and organic life on any planet is just a step towards that.
Someday sometime far down the timeline of humanity, there will be a moment in time where contact is made. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not in the 22nd century, but it will happen. And when that day comes mankind will either become immortal or meet it's end....and right quick.
I once heard the phrase "People don't have ideas, ideas have people". That aligns well with the concept of a dataome.
Dataomes don't quite have the ability to metabolise energy or to excrete waste products to the environment. Those are things that something has to be able to do, to meet the common definition of a living thing. Instead, I'd say that dataomes are actually closer to another type of thing that falls in between living and inanimate: Viruses.
Like dataomes, viruses don't metabolise or excrete but are reliant on a host's ability to do so, to enabe their reproduction. Like viruses, dataomes are symbiotic with true living things. The difference? Where viruses are parasitic, dataomes are mutualistic; Viruses necessarily harm their host, dataomes don't. Dataomes are beneficial. It's why they're deliberately preserved, grown and reproduced by their host.
Anna is scheming John. Great interview thanks for the episode. 😁
Recently rediscovered your content John, thank you so much for being you !
"The Inner Light" is the 25th episode of the 5th season of Star Trek the Next Generation. The story is about this concept of transfer of information from one civilization to another in a different star and time.
Nice episode even thou it is hardly logical. The probe inserted it's information into Picard but became inert after that. This means that the Ressican Civilisation donated it's information to Picard individually and what he doesn't pen down will be lost with him. Star Trek writers tend to miss the obvious at times.
@@michaelpettersson4919 Are you suggesting it would have been better if it had been found by the Borg Collective?😄
@@dubsar borg wouldn't have given him a souvenir flute either 😉
@@dubsar Well the information would have reached more minds. Then it would been discarded with the flute as useless culturally data. The ressicans technology for data storage and mind programming however would been delightfully assimilated. 😄
Listening to this discussion, I kept flashing back to that beautiful Trek episode.
Such an amazing and engaging full length episode! Propagation of information through robots sounds like a much more realistic path at least to start off with.
A 5 star conversation!
Can't wait to share this with my mother, a Librarian. Her books are alive!
If we do go extinct, I hope this episode gets included in Earth's future datanom that we send out :)
Hopefully in the form of trillions of those probes. Throw in datacoded dna blueprints of us as well so we can reboot somewhere. Hmm, that could be an usefull excuse for a Sci Fi show to have human like aliens all over the place someone did exactly that...
An alien cat video would be the most amazing discovery in the history of mankind. By far… that’s an interesting thought.
Indeed.
Thinking of it, there could be a insanly rich alien philanthrop out there sending us something not entirely representative of it's species.
Favourite channel
Can't wait to listen to this one! Thanks! I will add my thoughts on the usual question comment from Event Horizon once I finish this :D
I'd love to hear a conversation with Caleb n Bret Weinstein n Heather Heying. Three evolution nerds in the same convo has to be fun.
Another amazing cast. Thanks again.
Whoa I’m early!! Love these kind of topics!!
None of you noticed the uselessness of dreaming of expanding across the universe. This pod cast made me realize that the point of existence is the enjoyment of today and making sure that everyone alive today can do the same because conquering and exploring is simply a way of loosing what you already have. If we spend millions of years colonizing the galaxy how does that actually make anything better today? What is the point of colonizing the universe for the people living today?
Aliens would destroy us as soon as they see us gain any knowledge which will allow us to do to the universe what we have done the our earthly paradise. We are the universe.
Greg Egan in his novel "Schild's Ladder" depicts a human civilisation with a Slow Time system. Everyone on the planet slows down their time to wait while one of them is traveling on another planet at the speed of light. Humans are immortal in the story, so they don't mind. Without the Slowdown, centuries would pass on the planet, while the traveler would only live a few weeks in their relative time since they travel at the speed of light by sending their mind by interstellar download. And at their return from travel, their families and friends would have lived entire lives without them. They would have changed so much, they would be like different people. So they use the Slowdown to wait so everybody's time remains synchronized.
Two kids keep getting out of the Slowdown by readjusting their inner perception of time to accelerate it. They go play and do mischief while the adults are all slowed down lol.
It's an amazing hard sci fi novel btw, it's extremely intelligent and complex, with tons of super hard science :D
The whole episode i was thinking about a garden decoration dressed in a pair of Levi’s…. A jean-gnome….
Yes. One of my TH-cam highlights of the week.
Necrosignature. Finally, my techno death metal band has a name.
Doing a huge assignment, this came just in time for me to have something great to listen to. ♥
Fascinating discussion one point though information by itself has no agency. That is raw information by itself cannot affect changes on the universe. It requires an intervening agent to take the information and imprint that somewhere somehow on the universe.
A comment for the algorithm. Fascinating topic 👍
Ahhhhhh my new favorite channel.
Glad you found us.
This interview.
Simply, fascinating.
🖖✨
Well done! (This is the correct day! Haha) Thank you sir. Would love to have you on one of our upcoming podcasts. Launching this Fall!! Newbie to this!
john seems to be such a believer in that we r alone and only one civ at a time lives... it oozes out of every comment he make.. every question is about us finding data of an extinct civ instead of a living civ haha... i choose to believe we r not alone and simply r not advanced enough yet to know how to look for advanced civs that r well beyond radio tech
Living civilizations need to exist now. Extinct civilisations have a lot more time to work with.
Excellent, as always.
Great questions, making for interesting and thought provoking
discussion.
great episode. love the brian keeting cameo
I love listening to your videos just before sleeping.
Another great video!! Thank you
E.T. really stood for the Extra Terabyte
I did
This was really interesting and some new ideas for pondering. Thank you.
"[AI doesn't have ] the ethics that humans do... at least SOME of us humans!" Loved it!
Could the dataome be or become an intelligence of its own? I imagine them having an infancy as writing developed and spread information with writers of information being like neurons. I had the idea of the dataome finally reaching a point where the internet lets them finally function in human real time and they begin conversations with us. I also thought perhaps the East West divide of human culture might be analogous to the two hemispheres of the brain. I also imagine them reassuring us they have recorded history's great moral philosophers and peacemakers in their memory, as well as less pleasant things like thoughts of the worst tyrants and psychopaths of history.
If Google owned a data server at Alpha Centauri, it would be commercially worthless to them here on Earth. No one wants a hard drive with eight year latency.
It would have been far more useful to the Romans or Egyptians than it would be to Google today. I suspect that as our technology improves and computers get faster, the value of high latency (long distance) storage will only decrease.
The unbearable slowness of light speed is already causing us to slow down the development of technology on earth. We hit barriers in things we want to do already, just look at gaming.
@@swedmiroswedmiro1352 Yes. This as a Fermi Paradox solution.
@@swedmiroswedmiro1352 Light speed already makes some Manhattan addresses worth more than others. A hundred meters matters.
Hi John sorry if I ever dislike a video unintentionally your wonderful voice sends me in to a trance every night and I dream with all this information I truly love all of your program's 😊 so sorry if I accidentally hit the wrong button 😬😁
Any other horror movie buffs here who find it more scary to theorize about reality?
I hope we find life outside of earth before I die.
At this point that would be to find an exoplanet with an atmosphere unlikly to be created naturally.
@@michaelpettersson4919 will the James Webb be able to detect such anomalies do you know?
@@StarWarsJay I do not know if it is able to make a spectrographic analysis of an exoplanet. However this is done routinely to other bodies in our solar system and stars. If we cannot do it to exoplanets yet then it is just a matter of time.
That is a great question.
Idk don’t know if it is awesome or frightening that I liked futurism and JMG’s shows and they became friends and then I started watching Dr. Keating’s show when it started and here he is. I’m just gonna take it as good and not care about any possible TH-cam manipulation of society and individuals.
very cool episode & guest !
All living things are self-replicating entropy pumps. That's what makes living things unique. While all other matter in the universe gradually gets more and more indistinct, cold and simple: Life stays warm and propagates it's own distinct, complex forms, through the use of energy.
To put that more simply: As the universe gets more the same, life stays special.
Stunningly brilliant
Great video, thank you for this channel
Information is matter. Matter is information. The Logos is the World. The World is the Logos
Would love to see your channel in podcast form! Any chance?
The perfect form to hear your content, plus it would bring you a nice added benefit.
Yes. Very soon.
@Event Horizon... I am a bit late for the party but have a quick question. Have you ever thought about releasing these episodes as an audio-only podcast as well? Finding time to watch an hour + TH-cam vid can be hard at times, but I have plenty of "free" time at work to listen to a podcast.
Yes, in fact we’ve been working to get ready to launch it. It will be a paid podcast option, $5 a month, gets you access to ad free episodes EARLY (sometimes weeks and months early), full archive of every episode with or without music, bonus episodes for podcast only, a new monthly show hosted by a familiar voice, and more. Will be on apple, Spotify, and any podcast app that supports secure RSS feed (most all of them), there will also be a TH-cam members option with everything for people who’d like to use TH-cam.
Oh and access to podcast versions to all of JMG’s essays.
I consider only semantic information as real information. Information without meaning is just background noise. That's why I'm not worried about black holes :)
Great dialogue :)
Once I thought about the meaning of life being the mobilization of entropy with the objective of mobilizing even more entropy.
That is called explosion. It happens…
Given how far we've come in just a short hundred or so years I believe that what we find important now may become obsolete as we evolve. I'd really like to know what we'll be like in ten thousand years
There's a point where constant acceleration gets weird for anyone trying to life a life as any kind of bulk biological being. Digitization is probably easy for anyone who could enable 80ish years of one G and it's quite likely necessary. If you get within hundreds of miles per hour of C then travel from point to point within your ship is impacted. Get within a few tens of miles per hour and simply walking forward in it's direction of travel (or hopping if decks are perpendicular) would slow your own personal relative time by a significant amount compared to another coming the other way or even standing still. This would even effect electronics but not nearly as much and it would be much easier to arrange in thin sheets perpendicular to the direction of travel.
You and Eryn have the best voices on the Internet.
How could anyone decipher and alien message? How could we possibly know what their message was referring to?
I know what you mean, it wouldn't be easy
Probably by the time we receive a message, we could use quantum computer with next level AI technology to translate?
But the important thing is we we got a message
Great show as always John, I saw a news article that someone is going to try and recreate a Woolly Mammoth using DNA and possibly mixing it with an Elephant DNA using the CRISPR technology, would be interesting if you can find the folks wanting to do this and interview them :-)
I think the youtube algorithm is liking this comment. Love your work John!
I appreciate any scientists that recognizes the lethality of weaponized memes.
In 10-20 years we won’t have enough energy to store new data? Are we really that close to some kind of bottleneck in energy production?
Seems so.
Nice one John!
Your discussion was so info rich I suspect a brand new universe just got created.
Is there an unaacounted-for fundamental force at work from which information is derived? And does such a force explain the inexplicable tendency of matter to create life?
36:00
"What if the Alien memes are just too dank?"
Born too late to explore the Earth. Born too early to explore the universe. Born just in time to browse dank alien memes.
The bad paths section really freaks me out. It reminds me a lot of the logic of guys like Steven Pinker. Yes you can say we are trending toward being better as a civilization in some respects but there is still more slave labor today than there ever was, and if you apply that to a galactic perspective than it's not hard to imagine that entire worlds could be snuffed out by an generally benevolent species.
I believe the answer to some fundamental questions asked here are to simply take what we have learned thus far and now learn to iterate over a spectrum of possibility within those spheres of knowledge. In my career I have utilized many shortcuts or scripts or w/e I could, to do more with less. I have found in my automation experience within global enterprises that you can create very simple "kernels" of information that can be used to grow something much greater. AI, to me, is like that. You create a kernel of information (the A.I. code) that itself is used to execute a series of actions that iterate over human knowledge and generate new knowledge from it. Really, it is all the same. As above so below, as below so above. It is all the God thing. When you become a "believer" or a follower of ANY sort of "god" thing, then you are essentially in "tune" or synchronizing yourself or culture with nature or fundamental reality itself which I say IS LIFE and Promotes it! You can make arguments about what exactly the god thing IS but I don't think we can argue against the existence of something conscious and real that exists outside our universe. I am a witness to it. I disagree with ALL the worlds religions on their interpretations because I know they are all exactly backward. My perception of the one truly objectively real thing is more "the Mother" than "the Father." It Loves Life, it IS All LIFE and all things besides. I think our religions are simply each cultures story to themselves that pushes them to endure and flourish in the face of the terror of the darkness that surrounds and is within us. I think they are all beautifully flawed in their own ways, each of them. The masculinity slant of all the popular religions is hilarious and understandable, but still, it is all magnificently glorious. I cannot believe we are here in this game, the BEST game! The game of Life. I feel like an ignorant, silly, simple dog who now just wants, more than ANYTHING, to SEE you, to be near you, to PLAY with you, to Live Life with the joy of a beautiful little puppy dog. I have been blessed by the universe with gifts that allowed a wonderful career in Information Technology. I spent decades at the center of global enterprises, in the data-centers of telephone companies or internet service providers, or helping individuals or smaller orgs solve challenges through technology. I see that something magic happens when we connect and work together. It is known that adding minds to a question increases the power and clarity of the results. We are better together! And through my Love of Music I can know and feel in my bones what beauty and love is and what it feels like to be in harmony. When we harmonize together we can create some real actual magic. I see we are now at the stage where we are realizing the truth of things. There is indeed an actual living god thing that created all things. All we perceive is that god thing. It created us for some unknown purpose, I don't think ANYONE truly knows. It loves Life and I don't really believe it is necessarily HUMANS who are the focus. A Love of All Life by the god thing was MY perception. It WANTS us to Live and Love it all. Perhaps it wants to see how we solve particular challenges. It really DOES look like we are in a virtual reality, though nothing like I am familiar with AT ALL. And I know a considerable amount about human virtualization within the I.T. field, how that works with physics and math etc.
Whew, sorry. I'm not going to clean that up or rewrite. It is a bit of a brain dump from an old Irishman who just woke and has a brain that hurts. I may have been a wee bit too Irish last night...
Science fiction always amazes people more so than non-fiction. We'd love to hear a dramatic story because it's more exciting than the reality. There is no little green man....
Great video and information !