Hi Tom, in the last 4 years I have taken my mill apart and lapped it in I have upgraded my tools and work on getting repeatedly on my cheap China mill. I bought a few more tools as I can afford them and I found a set of gauge block I can afford. I remembered you video on shop made sin bar and will put it to the test. Thanks for many hours of enjoyment and thanks for sharing you wealth of knowledge.
Hi Tom, Always fine to be stimulated with new ideas for getting the job done, I believe that a real machinist is feeding on newer and simpler manners to set-up and achieve even the most complex jobs. You are good inspiration to me and surely to many others. I love that clever part of TH-cam where good and clever people put up the effort to make the world better. Thanks again Tom, Pierre
Thanks for the video. I don't think I would be the first guy to say thanks for being a wonderful instructor. I'm glad there are still a few folks like yourself that can clearly teach the basics so we can learn. My Dad was a machinist for almost 50 years in the canning industry, when he passed away in 2003, a wealth of knowledge went with him to be forever lost. I don't have him to call anymore, but I can refer to your work here on TH-cam, and I appreciate it as many do, again thanks!
Hi Eric, Thanks for the nice comment. I sure wish some of the old guys I worked with were still around. I'd pay a lot for a few hours with them again. Cheers, Tom
Thank You again for the videos, keep them coming. Even So, I read through the comments and no one even mentioned that you pounded on the pointy end of your nails! I have done this for years, it makes the nails go through the wood better. I made pallets for a while in my college years. Many many pallets.
You keep up all that fancy pants inspection work and your going to have a flood of tools sent your way for the Ox Tool stamp of approval! Nice work on the sine bar Tom. Pretty cool to see simple and practical ways to build one. Thanks for sharing bud. Adam
Hey Adam, I have to make all my tools. You already have two of everything so I'm just trying to keep my head above water. Always nice to see your comments. Thanks for the support. Talk to you soon. Tom
Well us young guys who are still learning have to buy quality tools so we can make tools! Hopefully one day I can be at your level of expertise! Hey you have a fine collection yourself, keep sharing them with us! It's always a pleasure looking into your toolbox! Adam
Another excellent Tom Lipton episode! Great collection of sine bars on display, my favorite, the Elvis velvet purple one, plus a simple explanation of sine bar workings, a build demo, and then a test for accuracy. All angles covered here, so I'm sine-ing off for the evening.... Ray
ThanksTom for a great video on the sine bars, it was very interesting and educational. I can't believe the amount of things I have learned from watching your videos. Keep them coming, can't wait to see the next one.
Thanks for taking the time to put that lesson together. I love the way you come up with innovative ways to do a complex task. As an engineer I use math all day, but these exercises are fun!
Tom, The spirit of the great Indian chief SOH-CAH-TOA must be pleased with your video... Thanks for sharing your time and talent. Also, for your concerned subscribers and loyal viewers... You might want to assure the crowd that no machinist's apprentices were harmed in the making of your videos. All the best. Chuck.
Tom, I think the parallel and bearings sine bar is genius. For those of us without a frequent need for a sine bar, and only one set of parallels, it might be nice to be able to assemble and disassemble one as needed, without so much hammer tapping. It occurs to me that if one were to cut a spacer bar to the required length, it could be used to space the bearings repeatably for tightening of the nuts, without having so many cycles of tap and measure. You'd still need to measure to be sure of the spacing, but you'd get pretty close on the first try and save some time on repeated setup. Thanks for the vid and the cheapness support! -- Mike
Excellent vid Tom. Thanks. Saying that Adam has two of everything is a bit ironic when you just showed us your collection of six sine bars, at least one set of gage blocks and a surface plate that has more surface area than my single car garage. I won’t mention the hammers. Thanks for sharing it all with us and providing exceptional training for this home shop apprentice. Kind Regards, Brad
Very informative video, I wish I had a mentor in the trade that for one actually cared if I learned anything and two was as intelligent as you are. Your wooden model was a very good model for demonstrating the principal. I would love for you to talk more about toolmakers buttons.
These videos are awesome. I'm just a hobbyist, but I'm finally learning that wasting time futzing around at the beginning is smarter than wasting time fixing things at the end. And now you're teaching me more effective futzing methods. Thanks for spending the time. (Your titles, btw, are hilarious. But in this case you left off all the sine bar costars! I was positive one would be a cute sine bar, but instead they were just left out. So sad.)
Third Hand Chuck, a notorious character in the wild wild west.... Great information Tom, dialing in some decent tolerances with simple math... when my son gets home going to make him watch the video and let him know this is why he should pay attention in class *lol*
On old fashioned ignition systems that have a coil sitting off on the fender, the plus and minus terminals where different sizes so you would not accidentally switch polarity. This is the reason your ignition wrench has two different sizes.
Another reason is that in the distributor you often run into a nut and bolt holding a part, or two nuts together. Most times they are the same hex size, so to loosen or tighten them you would need two sets of wrenches if they had the same size each end. Even the ones that have open end and offset open end, they will mix the sizes so that way you have two wrenches with the same size opening in one set.
Hey Tom, Thanks for the info on sine bars. It's was really interesting. When asked what sign I was born under, I tell them "Hospital"! Thanks again! Regards, Oxen Dave
Awesome idea for making a sine bar. Might have saved you quite a bit of frustration just stacking up some gauge blocks between the two bearings and bringing them in tight against the blocks to give you a known spacing.
Great idea with the parallel and the bearings. I have a box of hardened steel rollers that I took out of a broken roller bearing that was formerly used as a coil conveyor wheel in a large steel mill. I had originally intended on using them for spacers due to their close tolerances, but they would work well in this application as well.
oxtoolco Tom That mashing the pointy end of the nail to help prevent the wood from splitting is something my dear old Dad taught me years ago. thanks for the trip down the lane. Paul
Good video, Tom. I like that you focus on the essence of the concept and keep it free of the extraneous topics such as gage blocks, Pythagoras, coefficient of friction, relative humidity and standard temperature for accurate measurements. I always associate fitted cases with that hue of purple velvet with pre-1920 instruments, perhaps because my father's 1930-vintage drafting instruments have a green velvet lined leather case, and instruments I've seen in purple cases always seemed older than it. Velvet lined, no matter the color, reflects a time when men had great respect for their tools. The sine bar is so elegantly simple, yet embodies such a powerful concept. Everyone needs one if for nothing else than to demonstrate to their child or grandchild that math and trigonometry has practical applications. There's a similar concept in Machinery's Handbook that shows how angles or tapers can be accurately measured or set using two different sized discs. I always thought that it, too, has many practical applications. Cheers, Richard
Hi Richard, Thanks for the nice comment. The purple velvet is stunning in this case. I always try to get to the part where the rubber meets the road. I have never tried the disc method. I'll have to take a look at that again. Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom, Cool purple box and sine bar! I'm sure the viewers are, or should be very appreciative of your excellent instruction on getting down to real precision! It has always been my experience that going that extra bit, is well worth the effort, and on the tubes is often not covered... It should be though, unless it just absolutely is unnecessary because the part being made, need only be crude, or is a temporary fix. Thank you for your efforts! O,
Well, no offense but, based on 21:15, once we get done buying all of those gadgets, I’m pretty damn sure it would’ve been cheaper buying the sine bar 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Thank you for everything you do for us! Another great and funny video!!!!
Hi there, many thanks for the video. I do not as yet have gauge blocks, could I use a carefully adjusted machinists jack to create the adjacent distance and then readjusted to create the opposite and thus create the angle with the sine bar?
Catchy Title. Nice demo. Shows that you can get good results in the absence of high dollar precision tools. Another DIY project coming up..? Think I'll use pressure treated for mine though for longevity. ;-) Some beautiful threaded holes in that surface plate. You should make an artificial Chuck. Colin
Hey Paul, Normally I would have done that its the best way. But I wanted to show how you can do it if you don't have any gage blocks. You can make the blocks for under the roll to create a specific angle or use an adjustable parallel. I didn't want the idea to hinge on the need to have super fancy gage blocks on hand. Cheers, Tom
Great video, at the end (3:15) "the longer the distance between the bearings, the less sensitive the system is" but I think you meant the system is less sensitive to "errors." i.e. errors in the center distance measurement, errors in the gage block stack-up, etc. So a longer bar is more accurate to the angle desired. Bottom line, longer center distance is better, if you can fit it in the vise or other set-up, which you do a great job of explaining earlier. Cool video, thanks for sharing your experience.
Hi EJ, You are correct that is what I was attempting to say. The demo worked out great. I actually surprised myself on that one. Thanks for the comment and participation. Cheers. Tom
nice, a button sine bar. I always wanted a set of starrett buttons but would have never used them. here is good use. I would have put gauge blocks between the two bearings to set the distance. could use this technique to create some fixed angle plates too.
Hi Mark, Gage blocks would be the best way to set the centers. I wanted to do it with really simple tools like nails and hammers so anybody could try it even if they didn't have gage blocks. cheers, Tom
HeyTom, You've given me ideas. Hope I don't hurt myself. Ha! BTW I think the make the ignition wrenchs that way is so you can have 2 of the same size with half as many total.... if that makes sense.
Great video as usual. BTW since the bearing diameters are known & precise, then the easy way to set their centre distance is just jam some known length standards between the two bearings, Eg gauge blocks or failing that there are 123 blocks and parallels etc that could be stacked to get the required distance, then just hold the bearings hard against them while snuging the nuts then just a final confirmation reading with the mic. Also re the mismatched ring/open-end spanner, most motorbikes I've owned had such spanners in their tool set OR they had fasteners sets where the nut AF was different from the bolt head AF. This resulted in a much more minimalist set of spanners required to be carried. Cheers
Hi Russ, Using blocks between the rolls is the best method to space the rolls. I wanted to do it without using gage blocks so the guys who don't have them could see how you can get there. Adjustable parallels would certainly work for spacing as well. Its easy to add tooling but getting down to the bare minimum was the challenge here. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Hi Caps, This actually makes some sense. It didn't click until I read your comment. Out of habit I find myself swapping ends expecting it to be the same size. Rarely have to back up a tiny little bolt and nut combo. Cheers, Tom
you can use carpenters rubber mat to keep things from sliding I use it in the workshop under parts it stops damage and keep them held and the kitchen under boards to keep them still
Hey Bleu, That's what I have Chuck for. He just wasn't around when I needed him. Setup was better after that futzing anyway. Thanks for the suggestion. Cheers, Tom
Hey Tom Next time use finish nails, not a box common....that was probably the error in your wood display.....LOL Great vid and education as always along with entertainment.... Nice to know that you are thinking of me when you could use an assistant...you know, if I could I would just sit in the corner of your shop 24/7 waiting to be called off the bench to assist! Chuck
reminded of the old trick of using a piece of string and the easy to remember numbers 3-4-5 when you are building a shed or something like that and need make a right angle
Nice video, Tom. One could recalculate the needed micrometer reading for the distance between the ball bearings, to get rid of any micrometer error in your setup.
oxtoolco I was thinking that if you have a measured fault over the stroke of 4,5 inches you could calculate the needed added or substracted lenght of the hypotenusa to correct for that.. the lenght of the stroke measurement beeing not so critical for getting accurate results in relation to the dial reading. the actual length standard would be your gage block in the setup I guess, since this is the only precise one. Or would you be chasing the fault around the triangle this way? I'm not totally shure eihter. My trigonometry gut feeling is my only compass here, and could be crooked..
Ignition systems used a lot of nut pairs. Either clamping a wire terminal from above and below on a stud weakly attached to a wire or other weak structure; or a jamb nut pairs to prevent engine vibration loosening the connection. The alternating pair end sizes on "ignition wrenches" provided two same size wrenches for nut pairs with one set.
Great video! I have the little Fisher Machine 2.5" sine bar and I really like it for small work. I thought that the most accurate way to measure center to center was to take outside of the bearings distance averaged with the distance between the bearings? I guess if the bearings measure out to be the same diameter to the tenth, it should come out the same.
Hi bk, Good point. The hard part is getting a good accurate measurement of the inside dimension. Normally I would have used gage blocks to set the roll centers from the inside but I wanted to do it without blocks so folks that don't have access could still do a decent job. Cheers, Tom
Hi Tom, I think they make the wrenches with different sizes on each end, so that you can tighten something that has a 5/16" bolt head AND a 5/16" nut. There will be another wrench that has 5/16" on one end as well. Makes it a pain to figure out which one you have in hand, but could come in handy.
Great video Tom! Do you have the ability to do an exposure compensation, or use manual exposure, in video mode on your camera. You could dial the exposure down a little so that the indicator dial is visible. The rest of your scene would be a little darker, but the dial wouldn't be overexposed and your viewers would be able to see the action. I noticed when the outside door was opened in your shot that the camera reduced the exposure automatically for the extra light and the dial was perfectly readable, so it's probably not a glare issue. Another option would be to light a part of your scene with a bright light to trick the camera into lowering the exposure. You just wouldn't want the extra light on the dial. I appreciate your attention to the camera work in your videos. Always learn so much when I watch your videos.
After playing with camera angles, the next logical thing to play with is lighting. He's working with a dark granite table on the right and bright reflective stuff on the left where the light is coming from (even the back of his hand is a little over exposed). He might be able to get away with something as simple as adding a floor lamp to the right of the table when he is doing videos. Something to experiment with, anyway.
My goal is less editing and fussing around with videography and more shop work. I'm not sure my camera has exposure comp in video mode but I will check. Thanks for the comments and suggestions. All the best, Tom
If you measured the sine bar without any gauge blocks on the one end, is it parallel? I would think if one was trying to create a more accurate version that would be a good check to see if there is something off in the tool's geometry itself. If it is parallel, then you may be able to use an angle standard and known gauge block heights to calculate the distance between the contact points.
Hi Gopher, The parallel is parallel. You are right that you should check to assure the parallel is actually parallel. If you use the same side that you gage the rolls off then the opposite side need not be parallel. I have swept all my sine bars and they are pretty good. The hard part is the angle standard. cheers, Tom
Tom, Just a thought... You could set the distance between the bearings using gage blocks. Just a question... Are you familiar with the main shop up on the hill? Frank
Hi Frank, Yes blocks would be the best way to set the distance. I wanted to show the simplest method that anybody could do even if they didn't have gage blocks or anything too fancy. Yes I work with the main shop all the time. Got lots of friends there. cheers, Tom
Great Video! The only thing else I would have wanted and needed to see is the actual calculations on paper as to how you came about the 1 minute error. Seeing these calculations would have better cemented the knowledge to use the sine bar.
Hi Brian, I think the one minute error was based on the difference between the center distances of my phony sine bar. Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
Your video gave me a few ideas. Lately I have been on a mission to create a set of "Screw Machine" length drill bits out of my old set of bits. This leaves me with a bunch of stubby pieces of drill rod lying around. I was wondering if I could drill a hole in a piece of Steel and use the bit I drilled the hole with as my pin. The fit would be nice, so no chasing it around like you did with the bearings and a drop of Superglue would hold it fast in position. If you were careful in laying out your holes, you could make your C-C distance anything you wanted. Does this make sense to you, or am I just wasting my time?
Hi Racing, That might work. There are other sources of error other than the center to center distance. You need to be parallel to the side of the reference edge of the sine bar. Why not just screw the bearings down with some machine screws and don't worry about the center distance but concentrate on making them parallel with the working edges of the sine bar. Cheers, Tom
Hey Eric, Oh yeah I'm an RPN kinda guy. I can barely run an algebraic any more. Believe it or not I can use a slide rule which I proudly admit. Cheers, Tom
Thank you Tom. A Question to "Increase Accuracy" on the poor man's Sine you made: If a person has a lathe, they could make a taper cut on the nut used to tighten the Bearing down, and the conical shape would "Center" the loose bearing? I am really enjoying several Channels of you Master Craftsmen!!!!
Hi, So I have access to a mill and a surface grinder at work, Could I theoretically use a piece of 12.7 mm square stock and a pair of 6mm dowels (press fit) to get the same tool?
Hey Stewart, You bet. Bore the holes for good location then measure them carefully after installation. When you grind the working surface use the pins as your reference so the tangency of the pin is dead parallel to the working surface of the sine bar. Cheers, Tom
Those wrenches are that way because you need one for the head and another for the nut. Of course, i bet you have 2 sets so for you its not an issue. ;) Interesting el-cheapo sine bar. I might make one but turn some press-fit pins on the lathe.
LOL Hi its me again, i personally would have used apiece of known length steel between the bearings and snugged them up against that,in addition to the same set up i saw you use @ 23 minutes into the video :)
the reason ignition wrenches have different size ends on each wrench is so you have 2 wrenches with the same size on one end in the set to tighten or loosen jam nuts, all sets of double open end and boxed end wrenches are always that way when you have a bolt with a head and a nut the same size you need 2 wrenches to break the or tighten them.
like I said earlier double open end or double boxed all are mixed sizes, but combination wrenches (box on one end and open on the other) are the same on both ends so you have 3 different ways to turn a certain 1 size nut/bolt, the open end is always at an angle so you can turn the wrench over to get the wrench on in tight spot or even switch ends for a stronger grip with a boxed end, they pull from six points not 2, Top right side and lower left faces when tightening and vice verse when loosening. Brad
it seems the comparison you did with the taft pierce will allow you to calculate the correct length of the new bar. Also the same calculation would allow you to find the correct length of the edm cut bar. great video thanks john ps an autocad drawing might save one from using trig :)
Hey John, The errors can come from a couple of places. In fact I think my "problem" with the faux sine bar was the rolls were not exactly .6250. I need to go back and measure them accurately and see if that's what was wrong. The other source of error is the center distance of the rolls. What I really need is one good angle standard to close the circle on all these measurements. Big chief SOACAHTOA would not approve of the AutoCAD method. Cheers, Tom
I know you said below that you were looking for the simplest method that anybody could use, so you didn't use gauge blocks when creating the sine bar. But you used them when checking the angle. My question is what would someone use to set the height (larger heights) like you did for checking the triangle if you didn't have gauge blocks? Also have you had any experience with the cheap offshort gauge block sets? I know that you say the pin gauges from those sources are okay, but you have never said anything about their gauge blocks. Per your recommendation I have ordered some slave labor pin gauges, which will work well for setting the sine bar for morse type tapers, but am also wondering about the cheap gauge block sets. I am thinking that they are probably far less accurate compared to the relative difference between first world and third world gauge pins; however, they are almost certainly more accurate than anything I could produce myself. What do you think?
Hi Walter, The problem with gage blocks is checking them. Basically you either have to trust them or have them checked or check them yourself (not recommended). For basic not super critical stuff I use my adjustable parallels for setting the sine bars. If I want to get fussy I pull out the gage blocks. I think for 99% of anything a home or small shop would do import gage blocks are a great addition. The import block are well outside our ability to check with any certainty. All the best, Tom
oxtoolco Thanks for the response! I didn't even think about using my adjustable parallels. In terms of the gauge blocks, we can check them to tenths with micrometers, so they should be usuable for that at least. And since the micrometer is the best measurement most can make, we should be able to use the gauge blocks to be 'at least' that good. Either way, the cheap import set is on my to purchase list, but it is nice to know that I can use my adjustable parallels or my gauge pins until then.
Ignition wrench come with different sizes on each end so you basically end up with 2 sets of wrench’s if they were the same size on both ends and you needed 2 the same size at the same time youd need 2 wrench’s but as they are you have 2 of each size to use at the same time
Tom, By figuring the error on the sweep (.0018"), then use math to figure the real length of the distance between the bearings. Then when you use that true length, plug that length into the formula. Great Idea using the parallels and bearings. Thanks for sharing.
If you know the distance between the contact points, you can always generate your own table of gage heights to use with that particular tool. It would be a pretty easy Excel spreadsheet to automate the table generation.
Hey Herb, The error can come from a couple places. One of which is the center distance and the other is the roll diameter and relationship to the gage edge. You have to be careful to understand where all the errors lie, lay, laid? Thanks for the comment. Cheers, Tom
As for the reasoning on ignition wrenches ... the idea was to have one open-end and one box-end of each size but only on two different wrenches. This way you would have two wrenches available, one for the nut, one for the bolt. In the standard 8 wrench set there are really only 4 sizes. Nowadays you can get sets either way -- that is same or different on both ends. Still, I know what you mean, as I have the same set and always end up trying to use the wrong end first.
A quick and dirty way to set your rolls, distance wise, is to make a stack of Johansson blocks equal to the distance minus one 1 bearing diameter. Or if you don't have Johansson blocks take a piece of stock and cut it precisely to the dimension specified. And then use that every single time you set the bearings.
Hi Tom, the Accuracy down arrow (click on it) goes to 100 thousandths - .00001, this question is from me, this is not enough? Thanks for the fast reply. Mike.
Hi Michael, Sorry, I missed the accuracy arrow. If using gage blocks to set the sine bar the highest accuracy available would be .00005. This is typically the limit of standard gage block sets. Cheers, Tom
What I was considering was to drill two press fit holes for 1/4 dowel pins at 5.000 on center. That would be as accurate as my mill is capable of. Then I would press the pins in and halfway through. Now I would take and place the bar in the mill vise with the pins resting on parallels. A nice cleanup pass accross the top would make the top of the bar flat and equal distance from the pins. I think that would work and the results would be as accurate as milling can be.
Hi Ct, You can measure the pins and record the actual center to center of the pins. If you want the best true position of the holes drill undersize and bore or drop an end mill into the hole to establish an accurate location. Cheers, Tom
Bonjour Tom ;) In connection with the sinus bars, for those who have forgotten how to use, and the basic principles of trigonometire or just go deeper into the subject, Marc L'Ecuyer to make a video on. The next video will be on the practice of sine bar, and calibrate gauge block. Regards from France LQ#008 Trig & triangles shop math 101, MARC LECUYER
Hi Des, Thanks for the link. Marc is a great teacher. I'll be sure to watch his video. For those who don't know take a look at "That Lazy Machinist" TH-cam Channel. Cheers, Tom
I don't know about using the bearing for this. seems not too accurate. there is always a play and cap between the balls and the raceways. but really thank you. I am going to make a sine bar thanks to you, but not with ball bearings.
Toolmaker's buttons from the odds and ends drawer!
Your videos are still worth rewarching 10 years later. Appreciate it.
Hi Tom, in the last 4 years I have taken my mill apart and lapped it in I have upgraded my tools and work on getting repeatedly on my cheap China mill. I bought a few more tools as I can afford them and I found a set of gauge block I can afford. I remembered you video on shop made sin bar and will put it to the test. Thanks for many hours of enjoyment and thanks for sharing you wealth of knowledge.
Hi Tom,
Always fine to be stimulated with new ideas for getting the job done, I believe that a real machinist is feeding on newer and simpler manners to set-up and achieve even the most complex jobs.
You are good inspiration to me and surely to many others.
I love that clever part of TH-cam where good and clever people put up the effort to make the world better.
Thanks again Tom,
Pierre
Hi Pierre,
Thanks for the very nice comment.
All the best,
Tom
Thanks for the video. I don't think I would be the first guy to say thanks for being a wonderful instructor. I'm glad there are still a few folks like yourself that can clearly teach the basics so we can learn. My Dad was a machinist for almost 50 years in the canning industry, when he passed away in 2003, a wealth of knowledge went with him to be forever lost. I don't have him to call anymore, but I can refer to your work here on TH-cam, and I appreciate it as many do, again thanks!
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the nice comment. I sure wish some of the old guys I worked with were still around. I'd pay a lot for a few hours with them again.
Cheers,
Tom
Thank You again for the videos, keep them coming. Even So, I read through the comments and no one even mentioned that you pounded on the pointy end of your nails! I have done this for years, it makes the nails go through the wood better. I made pallets for a while in my college years. Many many pallets.
+slad roznik Hi Slad,
I surprised myself that nails could hit an angle to less than a tenth of a degree. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
3 years later, I’m still looking back at you stuff Tom. Luv it 🙂
You keep up all that fancy pants inspection work and your going to have a flood of tools sent your way for the Ox Tool stamp of approval!
Nice work on the sine bar Tom. Pretty cool to see simple and practical ways to build one.
Thanks for sharing bud.
Adam
Hey Adam,
I have to make all my tools. You already have two of everything so I'm just trying to keep my head above water. Always nice to see your comments. Thanks for the support.
Talk to you soon.
Tom
Well us young guys who are still learning have to buy quality tools so we can make tools! Hopefully one day I can be at your level of expertise!
Hey you have a fine collection yourself, keep sharing them with us! It's always a pleasure looking into your toolbox!
Adam
Another excellent Tom Lipton episode!
Great collection of sine bars on display, my favorite, the Elvis velvet purple one, plus a simple explanation of sine bar workings, a build demo, and then a test for accuracy. All angles covered here, so I'm sine-ing off for the evening....
Ray
Hey Ray,
The purple is exquisite. Don't you think it goes with my eyes?
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco For sure! ;)
ThanksTom for a great video on the sine bars, it was very interesting and educational. I can't believe the amount of things I have learned from watching your videos. Keep them coming, can't wait to see the next one.
Hi John,
Thanks for the nice comment. Glad you like the show.
Cheers,
Tom
Well done Tom. Thanks for the freely shared knowledge. These lessons are greatly appreciated.
Hey Larry,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks for taking the time to put that lesson together. I love the way you come up with innovative ways to do a complex task. As an engineer I use math all day, but these exercises are fun!
Hey Bill,
Thanks for the comment. I surprised myself with the wood mockup.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom,
The spirit of the great Indian chief SOH-CAH-TOA must be pleased with your video... Thanks for sharing your time and talent.
Also, for your concerned subscribers and loyal viewers... You might want to assure the crowd that no machinist's apprentices were harmed in the making of your videos.
All the best. Chuck.
Hey Chuck,
Thanks for the comment. The metal gods have been appeased.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom, I think the parallel and bearings sine bar is genius. For those of us without a frequent need for a sine bar, and only one set of parallels, it might be nice to be able to assemble and disassemble one as needed, without so much hammer tapping. It occurs to me that if one were to cut a spacer bar to the required length, it could be used to space the bearings repeatably for tightening of the nuts, without having so many cycles of tap and measure. You'd still need to measure to be sure of the spacing, but you'd get pretty close on the first try and save some time on repeated setup.
Thanks for the vid and the cheapness support!
-- Mike
Hey Mike,
Thanks for the comment. Helping fellow cheapskates save a buck is my calling in life.
Cheers,
Tom
Excellent vid Tom. Thanks. Saying that Adam has two of everything is a bit ironic when you just showed us your collection of six sine bars, at least one set of gage blocks and a surface plate that has more surface area than my single car garage. I won’t mention the hammers. Thanks for sharing it all with us and providing exceptional training for this home shop apprentice.
Kind Regards,
Brad
Very informative video, I wish I had a mentor in the trade that for one actually cared if I learned anything and two was as intelligent as you are. Your wooden model was a very good model for demonstrating the principal.
I would love for you to talk more about toolmakers buttons.
Hi Tyler,
I have plan for the toolmakers buttons. It has to do with true position location of holes.
Cheers,
Tom
I love the explanations of the process. Your a natural teacher with great tools at hard for visual aids. I enjoyed it, thanks Tom.
Hey Wyatt,
Thanks for the comment. Lincoln Log visual aids.
Cheers,
Tom
These videos are awesome. I'm just a hobbyist, but I'm finally learning that wasting time futzing around at the beginning is smarter than wasting time fixing things at the end. And now you're teaching me more effective futzing methods.
Thanks for spending the time.
(Your titles, btw, are hilarious. But in this case you left off all the sine bar costars! I was positive one would be a cute sine bar, but instead they were just left out. So sad.)
Hey Portland,
Yeah I was futzing around with the new titles and pictures I forgot to add the costars.
Cheers,
Tom
Third Hand Chuck, a notorious character in the wild wild west....
Great information Tom, dialing in some decent tolerances with simple math... when my son gets home going to make him watch the video and let him know this is why he should pay attention in class *lol*
Hey Steve,
Has your son met the old Indian chief SOACAHTOA yet?
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco
Oooops...... Saddle Our Horses, not Saddle Our A**es.....
I too want to hear about the buttons.. Thanks
oxtoolco The way I remember it was "Some Old Horse Came A Hopping Through Our Ally"
On old fashioned ignition systems that have a coil sitting off on the fender, the plus and minus terminals where different sizes so you would not accidentally switch polarity.
This is the reason your ignition wrench has two different sizes.
+joshua43214 Hi Joshua,
That is one of the best explanations I have heard for the sizes being different. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Another reason is that in the distributor you often run into a nut and bolt holding a part, or two nuts together. Most times they are the same hex size, so to loosen or tighten them you would need two sets of wrenches if they had the same size each end. Even the ones that have open end and offset open end, they will mix the sizes so that way you have two wrenches with the same size opening in one set.
Hey Tom,
Thanks for the info on sine bars. It's was really interesting. When asked what sign I was born under, I tell them "Hospital"! Thanks again!
Regards,
Oxen Dave
Hey Dave,
I thought your birth sign was Disneyland?
Cheers,
Tom
You know I'm kidding right?
Tom,
That was a rather mickey mouse comment!
Dave
Thanks for the showing he principals and how the sine bar is used. Harvey
Hi Harvey,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Another fine lesson from the lunch tray.
Nice video and great idea. I have used this technique before on my mini pallet. Thanks again for the video's.
Hey Randy,
Did you send me a picture of your setup or was that somebody else? A couple guys have made the sine pallet deal.
Cheers,
Tom
Excellent as always Tom.
Awesome idea for making a sine bar. Might have saved you quite a bit of frustration just stacking up some gauge blocks between the two bearings and bringing them in tight against the blocks to give you a known spacing.
Great idea with the parallel and the bearings. I have a box of hardened steel rollers that I took out of a broken roller bearing that was formerly used as a coil conveyor wheel in a large steel mill. I had originally intended on using them for spacers due to their close tolerances, but they would work well in this application as well.
Hi Ar,
As long as they are the same diameter sounds like they will work fine. Hardened drill bushings would work as well.
Cheers,
Tom
Excellent presentation! Enjoyed it...
Great one Tom shows what you can do with little tooling available. I like the Johnny Woodworker sine bar!
Hey Bill,
At least I didn't split the wood. Johnny done good today.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco
Tom
That mashing the pointy end of the nail to help prevent the wood from splitting is something my dear old Dad taught me years ago.
thanks for the trip down the lane.
Paul
great video, and useful in a pinch too. thanks
Good video, Tom. I like that you focus on the essence of the concept and keep it free of the extraneous topics such as gage blocks, Pythagoras, coefficient of friction, relative humidity and standard temperature for accurate measurements.
I always associate fitted cases with that hue of purple velvet with pre-1920 instruments, perhaps because my father's 1930-vintage drafting instruments have a green velvet lined leather case, and instruments I've seen in purple cases always seemed older than it. Velvet lined, no matter the color, reflects a time when men had great respect for their tools.
The sine bar is so elegantly simple, yet embodies such a powerful concept. Everyone needs one if for nothing else than to demonstrate to their child or grandchild that math and trigonometry has practical applications.
There's a similar concept in Machinery's Handbook that shows how angles or tapers can be accurately measured or set using two different sized discs. I always thought that it, too, has many practical applications.
Cheers,
Richard
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the nice comment. The purple velvet is stunning in this case. I always try to get to the part where the rubber meets the road. I have never tried the disc method. I'll have to take a look at that again.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks Tom this was interesting for the creativity!
Really enjoyed this video. Thanks for sharing!!
Great video!!! Thanks for sharing 👍
Good information shared by Mr. Wizard. :)
Hi Tom, Cool purple box and sine bar! I'm sure the viewers are, or should be very appreciative of your excellent instruction on getting down to real precision! It has always been my experience that going that extra bit, is well worth the effort, and on the tubes is often not covered... It should be though, unless it just absolutely is unnecessary because the part being made, need only be crude, or is a temporary fix. Thank you for your efforts!
O,
Hey O,
Thanks for the comment. Its fun just to try and see what you can actually do. I get surprised all the time.
Cheers,
Tom
Very informative! So much to learn, so little time to do so.
Well, no offense but, based on 21:15, once we get done buying all of those gadgets, I’m pretty damn sure it would’ve been cheaper buying the sine bar
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thank you for everything you do for us! Another great and funny video!!!!
Very nice Tom
I love the "claw" hammer
Hey John,
Everybody would have given me crap if I drove nails with a ball pein. I wouldn't have a leg to stand on with my hammer problem.
cheers,
Tom
Thanks for yet another great instructional video. I'm planning on making my sine bar from rosewood and brass. :-)
Hey Steve,
Be sure to share a picture of it with the gang. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi there, many thanks for the video. I do not as yet have gauge blocks, could I use a carefully adjusted machinists jack to create the adjacent distance and then readjusted to create the opposite and thus create the angle with the sine bar?
Catchy Title. Nice demo. Shows that you can get good results in the absence of high dollar precision tools. Another DIY project coming up..?
Think I'll use pressure treated for mine though for longevity. ;-)
Some beautiful threaded holes in that surface plate. You should make an artificial Chuck.
Colin
Hey Colin,
Pressure treated is way more accurate. Laboratory grade lumber.
Cheers,
Tom
Great video as usual!!
I rarely need to set an angle closer than 1/4 degree
but if we need to this video will be my go to reference!
Hi Gent,
No need for that. I'll send you my 2 x 4 sine bar. Just keep it in your box in case you need to go tighter than 1/4 degree.
Cheers,
Tom
Nice work Tom, also that art work at the beginning & end of video is FUK'IN awesome
Hi Dennis,
Thanks for the stamp of approval. Quin did a cool job with the pictures I sent him. More to come on that one.
Cheers,
Tom
Hello Tom,
My quick thought was to use your gauge blocks between the bearings to set the distance.
Hey Paul,
Normally I would have done that its the best way. But I wanted to show how you can do it if you don't have any gage blocks. You can make the blocks for under the roll to create a specific angle or use an adjustable parallel. I didn't want the idea to hinge on the need to have super fancy gage blocks on hand.
Cheers,
Tom
Great video, at the end (3:15) "the longer the distance between the bearings, the less sensitive the system is" but I think you meant the system is less sensitive to "errors." i.e. errors in the center distance measurement, errors in the gage block stack-up, etc. So a longer bar is more accurate to the angle desired. Bottom line, longer center distance is better, if you can fit it in the vise or other set-up, which you do a great job of explaining earlier. Cool video, thanks for sharing your experience.
Hi EJ,
You are correct that is what I was attempting to say. The demo worked out great. I actually surprised myself on that one. Thanks for the comment and participation.
Cheers.
Tom
nice, a button sine bar. I always wanted a set of starrett buttons but would have never used them. here is good use. I would have put gauge blocks between the two bearings to set the distance. could use this technique to create some fixed angle plates too.
Hi Mark,
Gage blocks would be the best way to set the centers. I wanted to do it with really simple tools like nails and hammers so anybody could try it even if they didn't have gage blocks.
cheers,
Tom
HeyTom,
You've given me ideas. Hope I don't hurt myself. Ha! BTW I think the make the ignition wrenchs that way is so you can have 2 of the same size with half as many total.... if that makes sense.
Jerry Long Hi Jerry,
Thanks for the comment. The two sizes always messes me up when I pick them up.
Cheers,
Tom
Interesting and informative as always!
Great video as usual.
BTW since the bearing diameters are known & precise, then the easy way to set their centre distance is just jam some known length standards between the two bearings, Eg gauge blocks or failing that there are 123 blocks and parallels etc that could be stacked to get the required distance, then just hold the bearings hard against them while snuging the nuts then just a final confirmation reading with the mic.
Also re the mismatched ring/open-end spanner, most motorbikes I've owned had such spanners in their tool set OR they had fasteners sets where the nut AF was different from the bolt head AF. This resulted in a much more minimalist set of spanners required to be carried.
Cheers
Hi Russ,
Using blocks between the rolls is the best method to space the rolls. I wanted to do it without using gage blocks so the guys who don't have them could see how you can get there. Adjustable parallels would certainly work for spacing as well. Its easy to add tooling but getting down to the bare minimum was the challenge here. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Great Video as always not as hard to make as I thought it would be.
Great subject Tom thanks for the information
So with the other wrench you can have one for the nut AND the bolt.
Hi Caps,
This actually makes some sense. It didn't click until I read your comment. Out of habit I find myself swapping ends expecting it to be the same size. Rarely have to back up a tiny little bolt and nut combo.
Cheers,
Tom
you can use carpenters rubber mat to keep things from sliding I use it in the workshop under parts it stops damage and keep them held and the kitchen under boards to keep them still
Hey Bleu,
That's what I have Chuck for. He just wasn't around when I needed him. Setup was better after that futzing anyway. Thanks for the suggestion.
Cheers,
Tom
I better not find a wooden sine bar in my mail box!
Good show buddy, enjoyed the show and info.
Stan
Dang I missed a trick. I'll probably just send a kit. They ship flatter.
Best,
Tom
Hey Tom
Next time use finish nails, not a box common....that was probably the error in your wood display.....LOL
Great vid and education as always along with entertainment....
Nice to know that you are thinking of me when you could use an assistant...you know, if I could I would just sit in the corner of your shop 24/7 waiting to be called off the bench to assist!
Chuck
Hey Chuck,
Its probably a good thing that you live an hour away. We both get more done this way.
Cheers,
Tom
reminded of the old trick of using a piece of string and the easy to remember numbers 3-4-5 when you are building a shed or something like that and need make a right angle
Hi Lasse,
That is a great method for constructing a right angle. Used it many time myself.
Cheers,
Tom
Excellent. Useful. Entertaining. What more could we ask for? Thanks.
Hey Jim,
Some delightful piano music in the background? Just making a wild guess here.
cheers,
Tom
Nice video, Tom. One could recalculate the needed micrometer reading for the distance between the ball bearings, to get rid of any micrometer error in your setup.
Hey Flip,
What would be your length standard if you did it that way? Not sure I understand what you are suggesting.
cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco
I was thinking that if you have a measured fault over the stroke of 4,5 inches you could calculate the needed added or substracted lenght of the hypotenusa to correct for that.. the lenght of the stroke measurement beeing not so critical for getting accurate results in relation to the dial reading. the actual length standard would be your gage block in the setup I guess, since this is the only precise one. Or would you be chasing the fault around the triangle this way? I'm not totally shure eihter. My trigonometry gut feeling is my only compass here, and could be crooked..
Ignition systems used a lot of nut pairs. Either clamping a wire terminal from above and below on a stud weakly attached to a wire or other weak structure; or a jamb nut pairs to prevent engine vibration loosening the connection. The alternating pair end sizes on "ignition wrenches" provided two same size wrenches for nut pairs with one set.
Great video! I have the little Fisher Machine 2.5" sine bar and I really like it for small work.
I thought that the most accurate way to measure center to center was to take outside of the bearings distance averaged with the distance between the bearings?
I guess if the bearings measure out to be the same diameter to the tenth, it should come out the same.
Hi bk,
Good point. The hard part is getting a good accurate measurement of the inside dimension. Normally I would have used gage blocks to set the roll centers from the inside but I wanted to do it without blocks so folks that don't have access could still do a decent job.
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, I think they make the wrenches with different sizes on each end, so that you can tighten something that has a 5/16" bolt head AND a 5/16" nut. There will be another wrench that has 5/16" on one end as well.
Makes it a pain to figure out which one you have in hand, but could come in handy.
+Andy Wander Hi Andy,
Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
oh man a machinist knows the old "tap the end of the nail" trick, this guy mean business
hammer technique is a bit meh tho
Hey Miles,
I bet you haven't driven as many Sine Bar nails as me. I think it was a ball pein as well. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Yeah, but he hit the point on the ground table instead of with his claw hammer. I would have done it the other way.
Great video Tom!
Do you have the ability to do an exposure compensation, or use manual exposure, in video mode on your camera. You could dial the exposure down a little so that the indicator dial is visible. The rest of your scene would be a little darker, but the dial wouldn't be overexposed and your viewers would be able to see the action. I noticed when the outside door was opened in your shot that the camera reduced the exposure automatically for the extra light and the dial was perfectly readable, so it's probably not a glare issue. Another option would be to light a part of your scene with a bright light to trick the camera into lowering the exposure. You just wouldn't want the extra light on the dial. I appreciate your attention to the camera work in your videos. Always learn so much when I watch your videos.
After playing with camera angles, the next logical thing to play with is lighting. He's working with a dark granite table on the right and bright reflective stuff on the left where the light is coming from (even the back of his hand is a little over exposed). He might be able to get away with something as simple as adding a floor lamp to the right of the table when he is doing videos.
Something to experiment with, anyway.
My goal is less editing and fussing around with videography and more shop work. I'm not sure my camera has exposure comp in video mode but I will check. Thanks for the comments and suggestions.
All the best,
Tom
If you measured the sine bar without any gauge blocks on the one end, is it parallel? I would think if one was trying to create a more accurate version that would be a good check to see if there is something off in the tool's geometry itself. If it is parallel, then you may be able to use an angle standard and known gauge block heights to calculate the distance between the contact points.
Hi Gopher,
The parallel is parallel. You are right that you should check to assure the parallel is actually parallel. If you use the same side that you gage the rolls off then the opposite side need not be parallel. I have swept all my sine bars and they are pretty good. The hard part is the angle standard.
cheers,
Tom
Very sineful !
Don't Cheapco have a factory in China ?
Awesome video! Thanks for the education.
Tom,
Just a thought... You could set the distance between the bearings using gage blocks.
Just a question... Are you familiar with the main shop up on the hill?
Frank
Hi Frank,
Yes blocks would be the best way to set the distance. I wanted to show the simplest method that anybody could do even if they didn't have gage blocks or anything too fancy.
Yes I work with the main shop all the time. Got lots of friends there.
cheers,
Tom
Tom,
I worked in that shop in the latter part of the '70's, when Louis Alvarez was Director.
Small world, isn't it.
Frank
Great Video! The only thing else I would have wanted and needed to see is the actual calculations on paper as to how you came about the 1 minute error. Seeing these calculations would have better cemented the knowledge to use the sine bar.
Hi Brian,
I think the one minute error was based on the difference between the center distances of my phony sine bar. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
Your video gave me a few ideas.
Lately I have been on a mission to create a set of "Screw Machine" length drill bits out of my old set of bits.
This leaves me with a bunch of stubby pieces of drill rod lying around.
I was wondering if I could drill a hole in a piece of Steel and use the bit I drilled the hole with as my pin.
The fit would be nice, so no chasing it around like you did with the bearings and a drop of Superglue would hold it fast in position.
If you were careful in laying out your holes, you could make your C-C distance anything you wanted.
Does this make sense to you, or am I just wasting my time?
Hi Racing,
That might work. There are other sources of error other than the center to center distance. You need to be parallel to the side of the reference edge of the sine bar. Why not just screw the bearings down with some machine screws and don't worry about the center distance but concentrate on making them parallel with the working edges of the sine bar.
Cheers,
Tom
Another great video, thanks .....
Good lesson Tom. Is that HP calculator RPN logic? They haven't changed the design in 25 or 30 years IMO a good thing.
Hey Eric,
Oh yeah I'm an RPN kinda guy. I can barely run an algebraic any more. Believe it or not I can use a slide rule which I proudly admit.
Cheers,
Tom
Thank you Tom. A Question to "Increase Accuracy" on the poor man's Sine you made: If a person has a lathe, they could make a taper cut on the nut used to tighten the Bearing down, and the conical shape would "Center" the loose bearing? I am really enjoying several Channels of you Master Craftsmen!!!!
That was a cool tip thx Tom
Hi, So I have access to a mill and a surface grinder at work, Could I theoretically use a piece of 12.7 mm square stock and a pair of 6mm dowels (press fit) to get the same tool?
Hey Stewart,
You bet. Bore the holes for good location then measure them carefully after installation. When you grind the working surface use the pins as your reference so the tangency of the pin is dead parallel to the working surface of the sine bar.
Cheers,
Tom
How does the Granite bed get machined so accurately?
Those wrenches are that way because you need one for the head and another for the nut.
Of course, i bet you have 2 sets so for you its not an issue. ;)
Interesting el-cheapo sine bar. I might make one but turn some press-fit pins on the lathe.
Hey Scott,
I have another set but their all open end. Dohhh. Time to buy another tool.
Cheers,
Tom
LOL Hi its me again, i personally would have used apiece of known length steel between the bearings and snugged them up against that,in addition to the same set up i saw you use @ 23 minutes into the video :)
Tom - I noticed you dulled the tip of the nail before driving it in......is this some kind of a trick to help the nail track ?
It makes it less likely to split the ends of the wood.
the reason ignition wrenches have different size ends on each wrench is so you have 2 wrenches with the same size on one end in the set to tighten or loosen jam nuts, all sets of double open end and boxed end wrenches are always that way when you have a bolt with a head and a nut the same size you need 2 wrenches to break the or tighten them.
Hey Brad,
Thanks for the explanation. So why are regular combination wrenches not made that way? Seems like the same criteria.
Cheers,
Tom
like I said earlier double open end or double boxed all are mixed sizes, but combination wrenches (box on one end and open on the other) are the same on both ends so you have 3 different ways to turn a certain 1 size nut/bolt, the open end is always at an angle so you can turn the wrench over to get the wrench on in tight spot or even switch ends for a stronger grip with a boxed end, they pull from six points not 2, Top right side and lower left faces when tightening and vice verse when loosening.
Brad
Good lesson. Thank you Tom!
You were measuring outside to outside, but you didn't mention subtracting the diameter of the bearing to find centre to centre.
it seems the comparison you did with the taft pierce will allow you to calculate the correct length of the new bar. Also the same calculation would allow you to find the correct length of the edm cut bar.
great video thanks john
ps an autocad drawing might save one from using trig :)
Hey John,
The errors can come from a couple of places. In fact I think my "problem" with the faux sine bar was the rolls were not exactly .6250. I need to go back and measure them accurately and see if that's what was wrong. The other source of error is the center distance of the rolls. What I really need is one good angle standard to close the circle on all these measurements.
Big chief SOACAHTOA would not approve of the AutoCAD method.
Cheers,
Tom
oxtoolco
oscar had a heap of apples that he gave to the big chief :)
Why not make two stepped pins out of steel that slip into the parallel holes with a known diameter of your choosing instead of the bearings?
You'd have to assume the hole were space accurately and you'd have no way to adjust
Hi Nunya,
The holes in the parallel are pretty rough. I wanted to show how to adjust to a nominal center distance. Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
I know you said below that you were looking for the simplest method that anybody could use, so you didn't use gauge blocks when creating the sine bar. But you used them when checking the angle. My question is what would someone use to set the height (larger heights) like you did for checking the triangle if you didn't have gauge blocks? Also have you had any experience with the cheap offshort gauge block sets? I know that you say the pin gauges from those sources are okay, but you have never said anything about their gauge blocks. Per your recommendation I have ordered some slave labor pin gauges, which will work well for setting the sine bar for morse type tapers, but am also wondering about the cheap gauge block sets.
I am thinking that they are probably far less accurate compared to the relative difference between first world and third world gauge pins; however, they are almost certainly more accurate than anything I could produce myself. What do you think?
Hi Walter,
The problem with gage blocks is checking them. Basically you either have to trust them or have them checked or check them yourself (not recommended). For basic not super critical stuff I use my adjustable parallels for setting the sine bars. If I want to get fussy I pull out the gage blocks. I think for 99% of anything a home or small shop would do import gage blocks are a great addition. The import block are well outside our ability to check with any certainty.
All the best,
Tom
oxtoolco Thanks for the response! I didn't even think about using my adjustable parallels. In terms of the gauge blocks, we can check them to tenths with micrometers, so they should be usuable for that at least. And since the micrometer is the best measurement most can make, we should be able to use the gauge blocks to be 'at least' that good. Either way, the cheap import set is on my to purchase list, but it is nice to know that I can use my adjustable parallels or my gauge pins until then.
Ignition wrench come with different sizes on each end so you basically end up with 2 sets of wrench’s if they were the same size on both ends and you needed 2 the same size at the same time youd need 2 wrench’s but as they are you have 2 of each size to use at the same time
Tom,
By figuring the error on the sweep (.0018"), then use math to figure the real length of the distance between the bearings. Then when you use that true length, plug that length into the formula. Great Idea using the parallels and bearings.
Thanks for sharing.
If you know the distance between the contact points, you can always generate your own table of gage heights to use with that particular tool. It would be a pretty easy Excel spreadsheet to automate the table generation.
Hey Herb,
The error can come from a couple places. One of which is the center distance and the other is the roll diameter and relationship to the gage edge. You have to be careful to understand where all the errors lie, lay, laid? Thanks for the comment.
Cheers,
Tom
As for the reasoning on ignition wrenches ... the idea was to have one open-end and one box-end of each size but only on two different wrenches. This way you would have two wrenches available, one for the nut, one for the bolt. In the standard 8 wrench set there are really only 4 sizes. Nowadays you can get sets either way -- that is same or different on both ends. Still, I know what you mean, as I have the same set and always end up trying to use the wrong end first.
Darn I missed my guess. I was expecting to use cylindrical allen head bolts instead of bearings and little screws.
Hey Brian,
Try some shoulder bolts if you have them.
Cheers,
Tom
V-Block Sine bar... One of the few tools that one is enough... =)
A quick and dirty way to set your rolls, distance wise, is to make a stack of Johansson blocks equal to the distance minus one 1 bearing diameter. Or if you don't have Johansson blocks take a piece of stock and cut it precisely to the dimension specified. And then use that every single time you set the bearings.
"MY BRAIN HURTS!" Just kidding! Great demonstration! Thanks for posting this!
Hey Bob,
You have to hit the nail......
Cheers,
Tom
Hi Tom, the Accuracy down arrow (click on it) goes to 100 thousandths - .00001, this question is from me, this is not enough?
Thanks for the fast reply.
Mike.
Hi Michael,
Sorry, I missed the accuracy arrow. If using gage blocks to set the sine bar the highest accuracy available would be .00005. This is typically the limit of standard gage block sets.
Cheers,
Tom
Thanks for the idea, I have another project.
Clive
What I was considering was to drill two press fit holes for 1/4 dowel pins at 5.000 on center. That would be as accurate as my mill is capable of. Then I would press the pins in and halfway through. Now I would take and place the bar in the mill vise with the pins resting on parallels. A nice cleanup pass accross the top would make the top of the bar flat and equal distance from the pins.
I think that would work and the results would be as accurate as milling can be.
Hi Ct,
You can measure the pins and record the actual center to center of the pins. If you want the best true position of the holes drill undersize and bore or drop an end mill into the hole to establish an accurate location.
Cheers,
Tom
And how does that one work !
You could prank dial pins and then put the bearings on it then I'll be identical or you don't need bearing you can just used dowel pins
Bonjour Tom ;)
In connection with the sinus bars, for those who have forgotten how to use, and the basic principles of trigonometire or just go deeper into the subject, Marc L'Ecuyer to make a video on.
The next video will be on the practice of sine bar, and calibrate gauge block.
Regards from France
LQ#008 Trig & triangles shop math 101, MARC LECUYER
Hi Des,
Thanks for the link. Marc is a great teacher. I'll be sure to watch his video. For those who don't know take a look at "That Lazy Machinist" TH-cam Channel.
Cheers,
Tom
I don't know about using the bearing for this. seems not too accurate. there is always a play and cap between the balls and the raceways. but really thank you. I am going to make a sine bar thanks to you, but not with ball bearings.
Well I'm late to the party...but I will be making my own sine bar now, pretty sure I can make one way more accurate than my parts typically need
Clever title sir, clever title.