This is another exciting special episode, and by now we've done an awful lot of them. Dozens, in fact, on a variety of subjects. You owe it to yourself to check out the specials playlist where we cover a wide variety of aspects of the war that we are not able to go in depth into in the regular episodes. Here it is: th-cam.com/play/PLsIk0qF0R1j6TfuWStd-aigrv6HQKk5Ty.html And check out out subseries on the intelligence war right here: th-cam.com/play/PLsIk0qF0R1j5rv_TTlEuYJpRmWa1QCfZ0.html That's some good stuff. Real "behind the scenes" material.
psst. i hear you have a dozen panzer divisions. here. have an extra panzer battalion. for each. don't ask where they came from. just stay away from Army Group North. They're upset about something.
Thank you very much of this episode and all of your work that you do! I was just today researching on what divisions were there and wondering about the special logos on the different divisions on your maps. Hope you could do more of these types of episodes to check on different troops that are doing the fighting - I am interested in the various special divisions (such as SS and NKVD) and the Japanese ones (of which I do not know just about anything about). Of course it is a tall order, but I just put that out to pinpoint my interest. Other than the land based fighting forces a check up on the various flying squadrons and different types of ship or sub forces are always interesting to learn about.
Ivan Goncharov once wrote: "It is a trick among the dishonest to offer sacrifices that are not needed, or not possible, to avoid making those that are required"
@@zoomer9686 it means that it is sometimes necessary to make sacrifices in war and in life in general, one should not be cowardly and shy away from effective sacrifices. However dishonest people will continue having to make sacrifices when trying to avoid the inevitable, necessary sacrifice.
@@zoomer9686 Let me put it this way: you can admit your car is making funny noises right now and pull over. Or you can call a tow truck 200 miles down the road while waiting for the fire department to put out your engine.
"The russians from the very beginning showed themselves as first-class warriors, and our successes in the first months of the war were explained simply by better training. Having gained combat experience, they became first-class soldiers. They fought with exceptional tenacity, had amazing endurance... " Field Marshal Ewald von Kleist
"The Russians are not men, but some kind of cast-iron creatures; they never get tired are not afraid of fire." ---Diary entry of Wilhem Hoffmann, 267th Infantry Regiment, 94th Infantry Division, German 6th Army, written October 27th, 1942, in Stalingrad
@@stevekaczynski3793 Indeed, but the Russians often get viewed as throwing soldiers away in frontal infantry charges instead of mauling the Germans with skill. Germans held numerical superiority until 1943 on the Eastern front (Western front for the Russians)
@@stevekaczynski3793 Indeed. All of his diary entries are interesting because they tend to mirror how things were going for Germany in general. His tone transitions from one of contempt for his opponents and expectation of victory (early on he writes about how rich the Soviet farmland will be, expecting to colonize it) to one of grudging respect for their stubborn tenacity and fear that all is lost. Early on he also refers to Hitler by his title (Fuhrer) but uses his name towards the end, perhaps also a reflection of loss of confidence in him.
My Grandfather was in the 62nd Army as an artillery officer. He was severly wounded during the attack on Stalingrad itself but survived. He was not able to fight until the end of the war.
The Eastern Front was not commonly discussed in the USA, when I was growing up in the 1980’s. Part of it may have been anti-Soviet Cold War sentiment, and another issue may have been lack of access to Soviet records. I’m glad TH-cam channels like this exist to bring people up to speed on how massive the German-Soviet conflict was.
@@gene108 Accounts on both sides suggest that because of the size of the front, the troops were often rather thinly spread despite being present in millions.
when i was growing up and at school, ww2 was normandy and normandy was usa and usa single handed saved we all from the bad guys. fin. france, england, russia, japan, north africa etc were nothing but footnotes. so sad...
@@nikesan2472 Late war Leibstandarte AH members frequently were ethnic Germans from Romania and Hungary. Wiking non-Germans were Dutch or Scandinavian.
Romania gets a lot of shit considering they were hardly pro German to begin with, yet put a lot more bodies on and in the ground than the other minor axis allies, despite (like Finland) only wanting or being capable of a limited war They had generally terrible officers and less than great equipment On the odd occasion they got (bought) equipment from the Germans it was either captured, worn out or B grade in the right situations, they did a pretty decent job in the circs When they voiced legitimate concerns, they were ignore, then carried the blame
@@Telamon8 Don't tell anyone but I found their plans on a dead Major in the Royal Marines, poor bugger drowned. Looks like you might be right about Greece after all.
@@oLii96x I don't think the Allies will have the balls to attack Sardinia! It's a Fortress Island! It'll hold out for months even if the Allies magically got their troops on the island!
So for anyone wondering why Hungarian 2nd Army did not have any armour, well they actually did. It just did not arrive in time for the Fall Blau. The unit in question would had been Hungarian 1st Armoured Division with its 89 T-38Gs (which was the Panzer 38(t) ausf. G), 22 Panzer IV ausf. F (with mix of short and long 7.5cm guns), 17 Toldi light tanks and dozen or so Csaba armored cars and modern Nimrod self-propelled anti-aircraft guns forming the divisions armoured strenght. On paper. If you wonder, yes Panzer 38(t) will surely struggle against Soviet T-34s, KV-1s and Lend-Lease Matildas, Valentines and M3s (Stuart and Lee). And mostly bad things will happen if Hungarians get stuck in pitched battle with Soviet armour but surely that does not happen?
It seems pretty unlikely to me that the 2nd Army will ever have to directly confront any Soviet armored divisions by themselves - even if something goes bad the Germans & Italians will always be there to protect them. No need for hysteria.
I think it would have been important to mention that those divisons he lists for Hungary are so called “light divisons”. That is a totally made up thing, but the Hungarian command, that was reluctant to commit troops, and also had trouble equipping them decided that since the Germans only specified the number of divisions, they would send these rickety units with only two regiments each, instead of they regulation three. The Germans pretended to go along with it, but then in return they didn’t consider it when assigning the defensive zones. With only 2/3 of nominal strength and no armor (well, they did have their armored division, but that was taken from Hungarian command to under a German ‘tactical reserve’) it really was a disaster waiting to happen.
A World War Two Special on a Sunday? Well wasn't expecting it like the Blitzkrieg... I'm sure the Soviet 62nd Army will probably be expecting it though in quick time.
Just as a little timely plug, TIK's Stalingrad series picks up on the 21st of July (this video is about the 25th) and is a detailed documentary about Stalingrad and its lead-up. Check it out if you want to see the campaign in even more detail.
I mean it's no TIK History / Eastory deployment detail BUT it's very good and this version comes with Indy which makes it equivalent. Had fun nerding out to this one
What the fuck was Hitler thinking? 🤣 they barely had the trains to transport them already. Since they were wasting most of their transports for the Holocaust
Leningrad wasn't important at all, the Germans need the oil. Thought I don't think they would have achieved their goals even if the panzer or supply situation was marginally better from better decisions.
Question! Will you guys give some attention to the Rzhev-Vyazma salient? I heard those battles made the Germans keep alot of Divisions from going to help Fall Blau
This is exactly the kind of video I’ve been waiting for, I love seeing the troop deployments !!!! Please make more videos like this to update us every once and a while on where the armies in the field are !
Loving that you've adopted the very modern narative of the Stalingrad offensive. Gone are the days of 1980s documentaries claiming that the Germans smashed everything in their path and only suffered because they got bogged down in the city fighting at Stalingrad. It's so clear that Army Group B was never given the resources required to complete it's objectives and that it took immense losses before it got anywhere near the city subburbs.
Now I love this kind of special episodes. I hope we will get more of it in the future and even some for previous campaigns of the War as well ... Thank you and best regards
"In depth" doesn't even begin to cover it. Dude is using street maps of Stalingrad to show the movements of individual squads and addressing every issue in minute detail. He's what - 20+ episodes in now and the series isn't even half over? His work is amazing.
@@Raskolnikov70 you are exaggerating. TIK himself already said that he would not cover the fighting on small- unit levels, simply because there are not enough sources. The small scale action he reports, like Pavlov's house, is the stuff that is documented enough to warrant a report and analysis. He also doesnt make a minute-level report of events, which is certainly impossible to do.
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox Don't be pedantic, you know what I meant. I was specifically referring to the work he does on important events like Pavlov's House in his last episode, not saying that he does it for every single moment of the battle.
I think you should have mentioned the air formations of Luftwaffe and Red Air Force as well. It would have provided an additional dimension to the picture.
Yes, air force is a key factor for any offensive. At the beginning of the battle, the advantage was completely on the side of the Germans and therefore they easily leveled Stalingrad to the ground, but during the Soviet offensive everything changed to vice versa.
@@MemoryOfTheAncestors Yes, I was thinking that too, as air forces played a very critical role throughout this phase. It was the Luftwaffe which bombed Stalingrad into rubble allowing a new kind of city combat to emerge and after Uranus it was the Red Air Force who stooped the Luftwaffe from dropping required supplies into the encirclement. Also, we also have remember the Red Air Force in Caucasus which effectively crippled the Heer in the passes using highly maneuverable biplanes stopping them before Grozny.
That is something that many people overlook, despite look many on the paper, soviet divison are smaller than German division, therefore, there are no " soviet hordes" because the numbers of personnel involves are roughly the same,not only that, because of larger german division, the Germans can outnumbered the soviets in many area.
Soviets did however employ several times more men than Germans did... This is complex matter it is also not only about starting numbers, numbers usually fluctuate during battle as sides reinforce their units in the field and replenish losses sustained. More often than not Germans were outnumbered by Soviets and that is simple fact...
Oh there were Soviet hordes alright, and they'll be coming down from Moscow in huge numbers to start the Kotluban counter offensives with massive losses. At this stage STAVKA was still not 100% sure this wasn't a diversion attack by the Germans before attacking Moscow again.
Really appreciate this episode. Some times it’s hard to picture how the forces (especially tank and artillery) are spread out. I feel it’s often glossed over in documentary’s.
Anyone who liked this will LOVE the coverage by TIK who has gone over Stalingrad in painful detail over the last year ... and is now just getting to the halfway Ish point. When Indy is doing that bit at the start of the episodes on the phone I imagine someone like him on the other end.
@@MrMiniman629 oh he definitely cites sources and he's great for that but he represents that history in a way that reflects his perception of the war and ignores many other aspects
@@ricktheresearchguy3294 while his interpretations can be debatable, TIK's volume of research and abundance of facts makes him a very interesting watch none the less.
How obsessed we are with ww2? Enough to make a board game based on it in 6th standard in boarding school days with whatever info i could gather out of the school library
Although Grossdeutschland division is still listed as a motorized infantry division it has it's own tank battalion, and an assault gun battalion, as well as about a company of Marder tank destroyers and a recon battalion kitted out with armored cars and halftracks. It later is officially designated a panzer division; with a regiment of AFVs it's functioning as a panzer division in Fall Blau (and its panzer battallion is equipped with Panzer IVF2s the latest equipment, not obsolete garbage).
It would be really cool if WW2 channel and TIK collaborated on the upcoming battles to and for Stalingrad. His ongoing battlestorm documentary is really good and goes into incredible detail.
@@Epicurwat Just because you disagree with it does not make it dumb. It was a well thought out and sourced video. You can make the hitler was or was not socialist argument either way depending on how you interpret the source material.
I know one major attack during the year of 1942. The Rzevh salient. Brutal battle and costly for both sides. Often overshadowed by Stalingrad but still had a strategic importance in the overall development of the eastern front and the war in the east.
Interesting to see the low number of tanks on the German side. Do we have numbers for the stugs who should support infantry divisions? Edit: Found the number of 619 Stugs (most would be short barrelled but still highly effective against infantry and somewhat capable against tanks) for the whole of the eastern front. So I would assume that at least 100-300 would have participated in Fall Blau. The German newspaper Zeit had an article claiming Fall Blau was the first time Stug 3F was used in larger numbers but they arent a reliable source at all.
@@yourstruly4817 Good point, however, a low velocity stug III is still very valuable when compared with a bt70 which I'm sure is counted in the Soviet tank numbers
@@TheJimmyplant Against a BT70 the german 37mm AT-guns should still work. Yes it would have been nice to see a more detailed listing of those tank-numbers. Hmmm, have I just complained about this episode not being nerdy enough? Maybe I should realy buy one of those books...
By the start of Blau there was a division of three batteries of Stugs (22 total) in each of motorized divisions. And some separate battalions and batteries on corps level. But i don't think there were organic Stugs in infantry divisions just yet. Russian historian Igor Sdvizhkov (he is mentioned by Indy as one of his sources on Blau) recently gave a series of lectures on TH-cam with very detailed description of the first few days of the offensive up until reaching Voronezh - so appx. June 28th to July 6th. And all the Stugs mentioned belonged to motorized divisions only. Also, in the process, some infantry divisions had to detach mobile groups to quicken the encirclement of parts of 40th and 21st armies south of Stariy Oskol. And they did not have any armor at all for that, they just used regular infantry on regular supply trucks with some light artillery and mortars. Total count for SPGs in 4th Panzer army and units of 2nd Army involved in the push to Voronezh was 85-95 - which is consistent with 3 motorized divisions with one battalion/division/abteilung each and a Marder company they had with "Gross Deutschland". So, infantry divisions at the start of Blau didn't have their own Stugs yet. At least not in 4th Panzer and 2nd Armies. Not sure about the autumn of 1942 - there was plenty of mentions of Stugs at Stalingrad, but i don't have enough information about their place in the units structure. I do believe that only in 1943 they received Stugs in numbers enough to outfit infantry divisions.
Hey any way we could get a summary of what to imagine under the military terms like army division battalion corps etc. Love the series those terms always confuse me though.
Second this. Terms of art like a division that is "under strength". For example is a division under strength the moment it is less than it started with until the moment the last member dies? I suspect it has a more specific tacit or explicit meaning that military historians *never* take the time to lay out, while in fact the audience ought to be regularly reminded of these things the same way they are regularly shown maps
from smallest to largest: - Company (about 6-10 of these in a 1,000 man battalion) - Battalion (about 1,000 men) - Regiment/Brigade (3 or more battalions, the two terms often used interchangeably) - Division (2 to 3 regiments; division sizes varied greatly between nations) - Corps (3 or more divisions) - Army (2 or more corps) - Army Group (2 or more armies) - Battlegroup (this term was used by the Germans mostly, and mostly towards the end of the war when their armies had been repeatedly smashed and shattered. Remnants of shattered divisions would often be scraped together in to "battlegroups") These are general descriptions. Estimates. Different nations varied. For instance, Soviet divisions had way less men in them than German divisions. My descriptions above match U.S. division templates for the most part. Hopefully this gives you all a slightly better idea.
@@jordanbell4736 Really it's just a broad way to describe divisions that are below 100% fighting efficiency. "Under strength" could mean a lack of equipment, shortage of fuel/ammo, or shortage of men. It could even mean the division is simply exhausted from a physical standpoint. "is a division under strength the moment it is less than it started with" To answer that directly, no. It would not be "under-strength" until its combat effectiveness drops. That does not happen every time a man or piece of equipment is lost. I hope I was able to help you.
I apologize in advance. Ever time that Indy lists all the units in a delivery that would make Vin Scully, proud, I have to sing, 'And a partridge in a pear tree.' FYI, Vin Scully was the Brooklyn Dodgers, and LA Dodgers, from 1956, The main announcer (The year I was born), until his retirement after the 2016 season ended, and he passed away in 2022. Vinny was a great ambassador for MLB, I miss him still, very much.
At 7:05 there is a little mistake, absolutely no Romanian army unit was moved to Leningrad. The Romanian 3rd and 4th armies remained in the south near Stalingrad.
Hey Indie. I have always thought you forgot something in the North African Campaign. In my opinion, you should make a bio special episode about him. The Governor General of Libya, Marshal of Italy, Italo Balbo.
Wierd didn't know accepting aid and wanting your own territory back makes you an axis nation. Than again the allies set us up for decade after decade of commie fun! Nothing like pointless wars for the next few decades to remind me that all is right in the world.
Will you make a video on the Croatian Legion (369th Reinforced (Croatian) Infantry Regiment) fighting in Stalingrad? Keep up the good work. Regards, Nash Gold.
If you could do a special on what exactly formations are, example, a division, how it works, composition, leadership, etc, I think that’d be cool, love you’re stuff Indy, also Heinz guderian bio pls
It is absolutely astonishing to me that the Wehrmacht was able to hold the northern part of the front where they had no tanks, in the face of an enemy with over 500 tanks. Amazing.
about the "no tanks" Hungarian 2nd army. They had 108 modernised T-38 19 Nimród panzejager 17 Toldi light tank 22 Pz-IV (hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2._magyar_hadsereg#1._magyar_páncéloshadosztály - oddly these details are not mentioned in English) of these losses happening in Fall Blau, mainly at fighting the soviet Don bridgeheads in August-September 1942. So at least the 22 Pz-IV are worth mentioning on 25 July 1942. Sorry for long comment.
Stats for "Fall Blau" i found so far: (28 June - 24 November 1942) Strength Initially: AXIS 1,570,287 Nazi Germany: 1,210,861 Kingdom of Romania: 159,426 Kingdom of Hungary (1920-1946): 200,000 1,934 tanks/assault guns 1,593-2,035 aircraft Strength Initially: Soviet Union 1,715,000 1,000,000 (In reserve) 2,959-3,720 tanks 1,671 aircraft 16,500 artillery pieces Total: 2,715,000 Casualties and losses Nazi Germany: 200,000 700 tanks destroyed Kingdom of Romania: unknown Kingdom of Hungary: unknown
My grandpa's younger brother, Zoltán Márkus, affectionately called by his family 'Zolti', has been deployed with the Hungarian units at the bend of the Don. He sent home a few intermittent letters (or rather just short notes) written on birch bark, we still have one or two of those. He perished without a trace. His father, himself an officer (deployed with Jewish work battalions as a commander, a shameful fact to know) tried for years to uncover where and how he has fallen, but he never found out.
Likely no one knew. After Stalingrad was surrounded the Soviets attacked first the Italians along the Don, then the Hungarian sector and demolished them. There were literally no units between Veronezh area and the area where units sent to help free 6th army were, all wiped out.
I've watched every video on this channel and it happend multiple times that I watch the next video and think "I haven't liked that video!" Not because I like every video I watch but because you deserve it!
Not really. Beevor is a good writer, but poor historian. He tends to add some some stories from fake or untrustworthy sources (or even making up his own), just to make the reading more interesting. And he often doesn't check the facts. For example he stated that commander of platoon Yakov Pavlov, the one who held the famous Pavlov's house, found a bible among the Stalingrad ruins and became a monk afterwards. Turns out it's not true. The one who became a monk was Ivan Pavlov, a different person, so Beevor didn't even checked the first names of those Pavlov guys. And I don't even want to start about portrayal of Chuikov or Paulus in his book.
Very nice summary of the forces present. I would like to add Slovak "Rapid Division" (Rýchla Divízia) which was helping out Axis forces around Rostov. It was more or less support division at thhis point, since its frontline capabilities were wrecked by Soviets. They would later go down south towards Caucasus and would be flown out of there after battle of Stalingrad.
@@martinvojtek6076 Yop. But I must say I forgot that it got pretty clapped in december 42. I thought for some reason that this happened in 41. They have good times till winter arrives.
At Vinnitsa for pacification and security for the head of state's (Germay) headquarters there are the 1. Schützen kompanie, the 4. (schwere) Kompanie, and the 5. (Panzer) Kompanie and others to form the 1. Abteilung FlakRgt 604 comprising eight batteries, active 25 June 1942. See Seidler & Zeigert ..Secret Headquarters p. 112.
This is another exciting special episode, and by now we've done an awful lot of them. Dozens, in fact, on a variety of subjects. You owe it to yourself to check out the specials playlist where we cover a wide variety of aspects of the war that we are not able to go in depth into in the regular episodes. Here it is: th-cam.com/play/PLsIk0qF0R1j6TfuWStd-aigrv6HQKk5Ty.html
And check out out subseries on the intelligence war right here: th-cam.com/play/PLsIk0qF0R1j5rv_TTlEuYJpRmWa1QCfZ0.html
That's some good stuff. Real "behind the scenes" material.
the gameing
Closed Captions seem to be bugged
psst.
i hear you have a dozen panzer divisions.
here. have an extra panzer battalion. for each.
don't ask where they came from. just stay away from Army Group North. They're upset about something.
Thank you very much of this episode and all of your work that you do! I was just today researching on what divisions were there and wondering about the special logos on the different divisions on your maps. Hope you could do more of these types of episodes to check on different troops that are doing the fighting - I am interested in the various special divisions (such as SS and NKVD) and the Japanese ones (of which I do not know just about anything about). Of course it is a tall order, but I just put that out to pinpoint my interest. Other than the land based fighting forces a check up on the various flying squadrons and different types of ship or sub forces are always interesting to learn about.
Thanks for your videos! They are very interesting, and educative!
"Any WWII nerds out there?" Yeah, 100% of your audience I proudly say as one of them!
I know right. Was thinking the same thing lol
Count me in! Woo hoo!
he knows his audience well. -A nerd.
I've only kept up to date for the last few years ironically.
**feels included as f*ck**
More Episodes like this will make our brains so big
A TH-cam that does a freaking amazing job with this is Tik
@@strikerorwell9232 TH-cam has basically censored every small to medium channel that still had common sense on the platform.
Ivan Goncharov once wrote:
"It is a trick among the dishonest to offer sacrifices that are not needed, or not possible, to avoid making those that are required"
@@zoomer9686 it means that it is sometimes necessary to make sacrifices in war and in life in general, one should not be cowardly and shy away from effective sacrifices. However dishonest people will continue having to make sacrifices when trying to avoid the inevitable, necessary sacrifice.
@@zoomer9686 Let me put it this way: you can admit your car is making funny noises right now and pull over. Or you can call a tow truck 200 miles down the road while waiting for the fire department to put out your engine.
"The russians from the very beginning showed themselves as first-class warriors, and our successes in the first months of the war were explained simply by better training. Having gained combat experience, they became first-class soldiers. They fought with exceptional tenacity, had amazing endurance... "
Field Marshal Ewald von Kleist
"The Russians are not men, but some kind of cast-iron creatures; they never get tired are not afraid of fire."
---Diary entry of Wilhem Hoffmann, 267th Infantry Regiment, 94th Infantry Division, German 6th Army, written October 27th, 1942, in Stalingrad
@@lycaonpictus9662 Hoffmann having some morale problems there...
@@stevekaczynski3793 Indeed, but the Russians often get viewed as throwing soldiers away in frontal infantry charges instead of mauling the Germans with skill. Germans held numerical superiority until 1943 on the Eastern front (Western front for the Russians)
@@stevekaczynski3793 Indeed. All of his diary entries are interesting because they tend to mirror how things were going for Germany in general.
His tone transitions from one of contempt for his opponents and expectation of victory (early on he writes about how rich the Soviet farmland will be, expecting to colonize it) to one of grudging respect for their stubborn tenacity and fear that all is lost. Early on he also refers to Hitler by his title (Fuhrer) but uses his name towards the end, perhaps also a reflection of loss of confidence in him.
Russia would've been more respected but it's leaders and commanders said no.
"Any world war two nerds out there?" Proceeded with a YooHoo! Best intro to anything
Yoo Hoo! Here we are!
nope, no ww2 nerds here
I mean.... If this is your channel and we are all here.... I can assume we have one or two WW2 nerds here.
I got so excited "omg he is talking to me!"
Yeeeaaah
My Grandfather was in the 62nd Army as an artillery officer. He was severly wounded during the attack on Stalingrad itself but survived. He was not able to fight until the end of the war.
Good!
The enormous scale of this conflict isn't understood enough by too many today.
The Eastern Front was not commonly discussed in the USA, when I was growing up in the 1980’s.
Part of it may have been anti-Soviet Cold War sentiment, and another issue may have been lack of access to Soviet records.
I’m glad TH-cam channels like this exist to bring people up to speed on how massive the German-Soviet conflict was.
@@gene108 Accounts on both sides suggest that because of the size of the front, the troops were often rather thinly spread despite being present in millions.
when i was growing up and at school, ww2 was normandy and normandy was usa and usa single handed saved we all from the bad guys. fin.
france, england, russia, japan, north africa etc were nothing but footnotes.
so sad...
"If you're wondering about the Romanians - and who isn't?..." somehow needs to be on a t-shirt or a sticker.
Wasn't around 50% of the soldiers, in Division Wiking, from Romania?
volksdeutsche in printz eugen and florian g. divisions maybe, where did you read about the wiking division having volksdeutsche from Romania?
@@nikesan2472 Late war Leibstandarte AH members frequently were ethnic Germans from Romania and Hungary. Wiking non-Germans were Dutch or Scandinavian.
Romania gets a lot of shit considering they were hardly pro German to begin with, yet put a lot more bodies on and in the ground than the other minor axis allies, despite (like Finland) only wanting or being capable of a limited war
They had generally terrible officers and less than great equipment On the odd occasion they got (bought) equipment from the Germans it was either captured, worn out or B grade in the right situations, they did a pretty decent job in the circs
When they voiced legitimate concerns, they were ignore, then carried the blame
@@nikesan2472 A book about all the Waffen SS divisions. I could be wrong.
Indy seems quite excited to cover this! Could we see this for Torch or Husky (whatever those are)?
Husky? Don't be ridiculous, no one would dare be brave enough to attack Sicily; the Allies are clearly going to go for Greece again.
@@Telamon8 Yes, it would be suicide to invade Sicily, just ask the Romans!
Snark, lol!
@@Telamon8 Don't tell anyone but I found their plans on a dead Major in the Royal Marines, poor bugger drowned. Looks like you might be right about Greece after all.
@@Telamon8 I am pretty sure they will attack Sardinia
@@oLii96x I don't think the Allies will have the balls to attack Sardinia! It's a Fortress Island! It'll hold out for months even if the Allies magically got their troops on the island!
Wow, that is a big disadvantage number wise for 6th army, Paulus never stood a chance.
So for anyone wondering why Hungarian 2nd Army did not have any armour, well they actually did. It just did not arrive in time for the Fall Blau.
The unit in question would had been Hungarian 1st Armoured Division with its 89 T-38Gs (which was the Panzer 38(t) ausf. G), 22 Panzer IV ausf. F (with mix of short and long 7.5cm guns), 17 Toldi light tanks and dozen or so Csaba armored cars and modern Nimrod self-propelled anti-aircraft guns forming the divisions armoured strenght. On paper.
If you wonder, yes Panzer 38(t) will surely struggle against Soviet T-34s, KV-1s and Lend-Lease Matildas, Valentines and M3s (Stuart and Lee). And mostly bad things will happen if Hungarians get stuck in pitched battle with Soviet armour but surely that does not happen?
It seems pretty unlikely to me that the 2nd Army will ever have to directly confront any Soviet armored divisions by themselves - even if something goes bad the Germans & Italians will always be there to protect them. No need for hysteria.
I think it would have been important to mention that those divisons he lists for Hungary are so called “light divisons”. That is a totally made up thing, but the Hungarian command, that was reluctant to commit troops, and also had trouble equipping them decided that since the Germans only specified the number of divisions, they would send these rickety units with only two regiments each, instead of they regulation three.
The Germans pretended to go along with it, but then in return they didn’t consider it when assigning the defensive zones. With only 2/3 of nominal strength and no armor (well, they did have their armored division, but that was taken from Hungarian command to under a German ‘tactical reserve’) it really was a disaster waiting to happen.
Or Romanian armour, with R-2 (LT vz.35) Panzer 35(t), both still better than what the Italians would bring
As tanks go, the Hungarian models are pretty crappy. Tho, not as crappy as the Italian and Japanese tanks.
Indy was so enthusiastic for this episode, he didn't even take the usual phone call!
"Any WW2 nerds out there?"
On a channel about every week of WW2 + extra information; I don't think there will be any.
Thousands upon thousands answered the sacred call...
A World War Two Special on a Sunday? Well wasn't expecting it like the Blitzkrieg... I'm sure the Soviet 62nd Army will probably be expecting it though in quick time.
Just as a little timely plug, TIK's Stalingrad series picks up on the 21st of July (this video is about the 25th) and is a detailed documentary about Stalingrad and its lead-up. Check it out if you want to see the campaign in even more detail.
I mean it's no TIK History / Eastory deployment detail BUT it's very good and this version comes with Indy which makes it equivalent. Had fun nerding out to this one
The level of enthusiasm over the subject matter within the first 20sec can only come from a True Believer.
Let's Roll!
World War Two content, the best way to spend a Sunday!
That andMRE vids
Agreed
The Don River for a German Soldier from Bavaria had to feel like he was on The far Side of the Moon
This is the best part, the numbers...
This was unexpected. Thanks for this episode, it's really good to see you those numbers, cause it gives full picture of events.
Great episode Indy and team
if the Germans had a fuel problem, sending an army from Sevastopol to Leningrad didn't help the situation.......
What the fuck was Hitler thinking? 🤣 they barely had the trains to transport them already. Since they were wasting most of their transports for the Holocaust
Leningrad wasn't important at all, the Germans need the oil. Thought I don't think they would have achieved their goals even if the panzer or supply situation was marginally better from better decisions.
@@iDeathMaximuMII i thought about that too, how much resources were devoted towards that vs the small gain of labor
@@TannerWilliam07 Capture of Leningrad would have greatly improved logistical situation of Army Group North.
Coal; they had trains to transport them.
Question! Will you guys give some attention to the Rzhev-Vyazma salient? I heard those battles made the Germans keep alot of Divisions from going to help Fall Blau
Yes!!!!! Those were huge battles that get understated so much.
they did not refer to the salient battles as the Rzhev meat grinder for nothing, a war of attrition, bled both sides
@@craigputnam2978 Especially the Soviet, like literally ten-fold.
Ah, Operation Mars
@@bubble4072 No that is in November
This is exactly the kind of video I’ve been waiting for, I love seeing the troop deployments !!!! Please make more videos like this to update us every once and a while on where the armies in the field are !
Loving that you've adopted the very modern narative of the Stalingrad offensive.
Gone are the days of 1980s documentaries claiming that the Germans smashed everything in their path and only suffered because they got bogged down in the city fighting at Stalingrad. It's so clear that Army Group B was never given the resources required to complete it's objectives and that it took immense losses before it got anywhere near the city subburbs.
reaching the Don is not the problem. getting back from it will be. my grandfather was really lucky to came back.
oh reaching the Don is going to be quite the problem by itself alright^^
Best intro yet!
BTW, never realized how few tanks the Germans had compared to the Soviets. Those numbers are crazy
Now I love this kind of special episodes. I hope we will get more of it in the future and even some for previous campaigns of the War as well ... Thank you and best regards
Watch TIK's Battlestorm Stalingrad series for an extremely indepth documentary on fall blau.
"In depth" doesn't even begin to cover it. Dude is using street maps of Stalingrad to show the movements of individual squads and addressing every issue in minute detail. He's what - 20+ episodes in now and the series isn't even half over? His work is amazing.
Great series, watching it currently. WWII channel is something special, covering the whole world at once, but TIK did a great job!
Absolutely. With Eastory's maps the Stalingrad series is epic.
@@Raskolnikov70 you are exaggerating. TIK himself already said that he would not cover the fighting on small- unit levels, simply because there are not enough sources. The small scale action he reports, like Pavlov's house, is the stuff that is documented enough to warrant a report and analysis. He also doesnt make a minute-level report of events, which is certainly impossible to do.
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox Don't be pedantic, you know what I meant. I was specifically referring to the work he does on important events like Pavlov's House in his last episode, not saying that he does it for every single moment of the battle.
I think you should have mentioned the air formations of Luftwaffe and Red Air Force as well. It would have provided an additional dimension to the picture.
Yes, air force is a key factor for any offensive. At the beginning of the battle, the advantage was completely on the side of the Germans and therefore they easily leveled Stalingrad to the ground, but during the Soviet offensive everything changed to vice versa.
@@MemoryOfTheAncestors Yes, I was thinking that too, as air forces played a very critical role throughout this phase. It was the Luftwaffe which bombed Stalingrad into rubble allowing a new kind of city combat to emerge and after Uranus it was the Red Air Force who stooped the Luftwaffe from dropping required supplies into the encirclement. Also, we also have remember the Red Air Force in Caucasus which effectively crippled the Heer in the passes using highly maneuverable biplanes stopping them before Grozny.
Cary Black
1 second ago
There are a number of good books and I recommend Joel Hayward Stopped at Stalingrad.
That is something that many people overlook, despite look many on the paper, soviet divison are smaller than German division, therefore, there are no " soviet hordes" because the numbers of personnel involves are roughly the same,not only that, because of larger german division, the Germans can outnumbered the soviets in many area.
True, also many soviet tanks were light tanks. TIK is the go to guy for this :D
@@vladconstantinminea hehehe looks like both of us are cultured history fans
Soviets did however employ several times more men than Germans did... This is complex matter it is also not only about starting numbers, numbers usually fluctuate during battle as sides reinforce their units in the field and replenish losses sustained.
More often than not Germans were outnumbered by Soviets and that is simple fact...
And numbers of personel were NOT roughly the same, although I would not describe Soviet numerical superiority as "Soviet Hordes"...
Oh there were Soviet hordes alright, and they'll be coming down from Moscow in huge numbers to start the Kotluban counter offensives with massive losses. At this stage STAVKA was still not 100% sure this wasn't a diversion attack by the Germans before attacking Moscow again.
Really appreciate this episode. Some times it’s hard to picture how the forces (especially tank and artillery) are spread out. I feel it’s often glossed over in documentary’s.
Tanks a lot.
Yahoo! Love finding special episodes on a Sunday. Thanks Time Ghost crew!
excellent video
great information
I love the deep dives into the formations and their movements. I just wish they would also include aviation units.
Anyone who liked this will LOVE the coverage by TIK who has gone over Stalingrad in painful detail over the last year ... and is now just getting to the halfway Ish point. When Indy is doing that bit at the start of the episodes on the phone I imagine someone like him on the other end.
TIK reccomendations should always come with a major warning that he engages in massive revisionism and has no idea about the politics of the war
@@ricktheresearchguy3294 lol what?? He cites more than any other historical TH-cam channel!
TIK is a hack and stinks bad.
@@MrMiniman629 oh he definitely cites sources and he's great for that but he represents that history in a way that reflects his perception of the war and ignores many other aspects
@@ricktheresearchguy3294 while his interpretations can be debatable, TIK's volume of research and abundance of facts makes him a very interesting watch none the less.
How obsessed we are with ww2? Enough to make a board game based on it in 6th standard in boarding school days with whatever info i could gather out of the school library
I remember playing a fantastic board game in my childhood based on the Waterloo campaign, but I did not design it myself.
That bomb blast in the intro always blows when the gong sounds.
What was the Luftwaffe numbers and how were they deployed in assisting the Wermacht?
depends on the time of year. Much of it was shuttling between Africa and the Front .
My friend, I can't wait for you to upload videos! Your content and the presentation there of is superb! The best !!
MORE!
Although Grossdeutschland division is still listed as a motorized infantry division it has it's own tank battalion, and an assault gun battalion, as well as about a company of Marder tank destroyers and a recon battalion kitted out with armored cars and halftracks.
It later is officially designated a panzer division; with a regiment of AFVs it's functioning as a panzer division in Fall Blau (and its panzer battallion is equipped with Panzer IVF2s the latest equipment, not obsolete garbage).
Important information. It could be listed as a Panzer.
You guys have a wonderful style ,very entertaining and informative
Thank you for watching, Stephen
And suddenly Sunday becomes way more interesting! Thanks for the video!
It would be really cool if WW2 channel and TIK collaborated on the upcoming battles to and for Stalingrad. His ongoing battlestorm documentary is really good and goes into incredible detail.
And don't miss his "Hitler's socialism" video, one of the dumbest things on TH-cam, special pleading turned to almost Dadaist levels of absurdity!
@@Epicurwat Just because you disagree with it does not make it dumb. It was a well thought out and sourced video. You can make the hitler was or was not socialist argument either way depending on how you interpret the source material.
@@davidweb2728 Maybe dumb isn't the word, a lot of thought had to go into that very high-level sophistry, but still, it was anti-reason writ large.
Me: "Oooo Eastern Front Deployments, sounds interesting!"
Indy: "Any WW2 nerds out there?"
Me: *blushes*
The videos you put out are always solid, entertaining and, in my opinion, factual. Keep up the good work.
Sucks we live in a world where factual is an opinion. Good comment though
Great video. Very informative.
have these types of deployment episodes been done before? there's so much great content, it's tough to keep up! :)
I know one major attack during the year of 1942. The Rzevh salient. Brutal battle and costly for both sides. Often overshadowed by Stalingrad but still had a strategic importance in the overall development of the eastern front and the war in the east.
Actually I think there are at least 2 Rzhevh battles, one in the summer and Operation Mars in November.
TIK Battlestorm Stalingrad is all you need if you want to know more about this there's nothing that comes close
Interesting to see the low number of tanks on the German side. Do we have numbers for the stugs who should support infantry divisions?
Edit: Found the number of 619 Stugs (most would be short barrelled but still highly effective against infantry and somewhat capable against tanks) for the whole of the eastern front. So I would assume that at least 100-300 would have participated in Fall Blau. The German newspaper Zeit had an article claiming Fall Blau was the first time Stug 3F was used in larger numbers but they arent a reliable source at all.
I don't know if the Stug III F versions were already on the frontline, since it was the first version with a good gun against tanks
@@yourstruly4817 Good point, however, a low velocity stug III is still very valuable when compared with a bt70 which I'm sure is counted in the Soviet tank numbers
@@TheJimmyplant Against a BT70 the german 37mm AT-guns should still work. Yes it would have been nice to see a more detailed listing of those tank-numbers. Hmmm, have I just complained about this episode not being nerdy enough? Maybe I should realy buy one of those books...
By the start of Blau there was a division of three batteries of Stugs (22 total) in each of motorized divisions. And some separate battalions and batteries on corps level. But i don't think there were organic Stugs in infantry divisions just yet. Russian historian Igor Sdvizhkov (he is mentioned by Indy as one of his sources on Blau) recently gave a series of lectures on TH-cam with very detailed description of the first few days of the offensive up until reaching Voronezh - so appx. June 28th to July 6th. And all the Stugs mentioned belonged to motorized divisions only. Also, in the process, some infantry divisions had to detach mobile groups to quicken the encirclement of parts of 40th and 21st armies south of Stariy Oskol. And they did not have any armor at all for that, they just used regular infantry on regular supply trucks with some light artillery and mortars. Total count for SPGs in 4th Panzer army and units of 2nd Army involved in the push to Voronezh was 85-95 - which is consistent with 3 motorized divisions with one battalion/division/abteilung each and a Marder company they had with "Gross Deutschland".
So, infantry divisions at the start of Blau didn't have their own Stugs yet. At least not in 4th Panzer and 2nd Armies. Not sure about the autumn of 1942 - there was plenty of mentions of Stugs at Stalingrad, but i don't have enough information about their place in the units structure. I do believe that only in 1943 they received Stugs in numbers enough to outfit infantry divisions.
Hey any way we could get a summary of what to imagine under the military terms like army division battalion corps etc. Love the series those terms always confuse me though.
Second this. Terms of art like a division that is "under strength". For example is a division under strength the moment it is less than it started with until the moment the last member dies? I suspect it has a more specific tacit or explicit meaning that military historians *never* take the time to lay out, while in fact the audience ought to be regularly reminded of these things the same way they are regularly shown maps
Terms to define: army, division, brigade, corps, unit, group, front, theatre.
I'm in on this also, I've no idea what an army, corps, division, brigade, etc. is, and how do German, American, Japanese, and Soviet #s compare?
from smallest to largest:
- Company (about 6-10 of these in a 1,000 man battalion)
- Battalion (about 1,000 men)
- Regiment/Brigade (3 or more battalions, the two terms often used interchangeably)
- Division (2 to 3 regiments; division sizes varied greatly between nations)
- Corps (3 or more divisions)
- Army (2 or more corps)
- Army Group (2 or more armies)
- Battlegroup (this term was used by the Germans mostly, and mostly towards the end of the war when their armies had been repeatedly smashed and shattered. Remnants of shattered divisions would often be scraped together in to "battlegroups")
These are general descriptions. Estimates. Different nations varied. For instance, Soviet divisions had way less men in them than German divisions. My descriptions above match U.S. division templates for the most part. Hopefully this gives you all a slightly better idea.
@@jordanbell4736 Really it's just a broad way to describe divisions that are below 100% fighting efficiency. "Under strength" could mean a lack of equipment, shortage of fuel/ammo, or shortage of men. It could even mean the division is simply exhausted from a physical standpoint.
"is a division under strength the moment it is less than it started with"
To answer that directly, no. It would not be "under-strength" until its combat effectiveness drops. That does not happen every time a man or piece of equipment is lost. I hope I was able to help you.
I apologize in advance. Ever time that Indy lists all the units in a delivery that would make Vin Scully, proud, I have to sing, 'And a partridge in a pear tree.' FYI, Vin Scully was the Brooklyn Dodgers, and LA Dodgers, from 1956, The main announcer (The year I was born), until his retirement after the 2016 season ended, and he passed away in 2022. Vinny was a great ambassador for MLB, I miss him still, very much.
Hi Indy.
Wonderful to have special episode.
Troop deployment details wonderful to watch..
Yes i became world war two nerd..
Thanks team..
At 7:05 there is a little mistake, absolutely no Romanian army unit was moved to Leningrad. The Romanian 3rd and 4th armies remained in the south near Stalingrad.
I think the orignal plan was for them to go northwards, but then they were reassigned to protect the German flank during the battle of Stalingrad.
@@getserky Only the German 11th army was to be moved to Leningrad. Meanwhile, the Romanian, Hungarian and Italian units were to remain in the south.
I love videos like this
Awesome as always.
the last recipient of the MOH
in WWII passed recently
Thank you.
Hey Indie.
I have always thought you forgot something in the North African Campaign. In my opinion, you should make a bio special episode about him.
The Governor General of Libya,
Marshal of Italy,
Italo Balbo.
The Axis countries of Hungary, Italy, Finland, Romania, and the Spanish volunteers are especially good to look at when observing troop deployments
Finnland an Axis country?! Oho, you just said something controversial ;D
@@thanos_6.0 lol 😂
Wierd didn't know accepting aid and wanting your own territory back makes you an axis nation. Than again the allies set us up for decade after decade of commie fun! Nothing like pointless wars for the next few decades to remind me that all is right in the world.
@@matt911gmail You're not supposed to say the quiet part out loud, Matt.
@@matt911gmail military alliance with another Axis powers makes you an Axis power as well, colloquially speaking.
Enjoyed your video so I gave it a Thumbs Up for support
David Glantz is awesome, well worth reading his stuff!
Question: "What is the most rhetorical question of 2021"?
Answer: "Any World War Two nerds out there?"
Oh that's a nice tie-and-vest combo. Very classy. 4/5
Thank you so much for this episode :)
For the next occasion, could it be possible to include what is the status among the air forces involved?
There are a number of good books and I recommend Joel Hayward Stopped at Stalingrad.
YES!!!! Let's break out the maps and counters!!!!!!!
Will you make a video on the Croatian Legion (369th Reinforced (Croatian) Infantry Regiment) fighting in Stalingrad? Keep up the good work.
Regards, Nash Gold.
If you could do a special on what exactly formations are, example, a division, how it works, composition, leadership, etc, I think that’d be cool, love you’re stuff Indy, also Heinz guderian bio pls
Military History Visualised has some good videos on this stuff. Infantry tactics and composition as well
It is absolutely astonishing to me that the Wehrmacht was able to hold the northern part of the front where they had no tanks, in the face of an enemy with over 500 tanks. Amazing.
@@artiombeknazaryan7542 At this point in the war I would argue they do not have "total air superiority"
WWII nerd? Indy I've been looking forward to this since you mentioned it yesterday. Excited it only took a day.
Thoroughly enjoyed this video!!
0:00 the face you make when Steiners attack never comes
But Steiners attack was an order!
Or Apple gets rid of the headphone jack on the new iPhones. He's always mad about something.
Dass war ein Befehl!
Thank you for an unexpected and informative and very well done video!
Indy is back! Loved your WW1 videos
about the "no tanks" Hungarian 2nd army.
They had
108 modernised T-38
19 Nimród panzejager
17 Toldi light tank
22 Pz-IV
(hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2._magyar_hadsereg#1._magyar_páncéloshadosztály - oddly these details are not mentioned in English)
of these losses happening in Fall Blau, mainly at fighting the soviet Don bridgeheads in August-September 1942.
So at least the 22 Pz-IV are worth mentioning on 25 July 1942. Sorry for long comment.
Finally the important mention of how soviet divisions were woefully weaker than german ones.
So, I'm not the only one who is fascinated by orders of battle and formation dispositions? Cool.
Yeah I like to know more above divisions history's and the like.
Stats for "Fall Blau" i found so far: (28 June - 24 November 1942)
Strength Initially:
AXIS 1,570,287
Nazi Germany: 1,210,861
Kingdom of Romania: 159,426
Kingdom of Hungary (1920-1946): 200,000
1,934 tanks/assault guns
1,593-2,035 aircraft
Strength Initially:
Soviet Union 1,715,000
1,000,000 (In reserve)
2,959-3,720 tanks
1,671 aircraft
16,500 artillery pieces
Total: 2,715,000
Casualties and losses
Nazi Germany:
200,000
700 tanks destroyed
Kingdom of Romania:
unknown
Kingdom of Hungary:
unknown
Soviet Union 1,200,000
4,862 tanks destroyed
My grandpa's younger brother, Zoltán Márkus, affectionately called by his family 'Zolti', has been deployed with the Hungarian units at the bend of the Don. He sent home a few intermittent letters (or rather just short notes) written on birch bark, we still have one or two of those. He perished without a trace.
His father, himself an officer (deployed with Jewish work battalions as a commander, a shameful fact to know) tried for years to uncover where and how he has fallen, but he never found out.
Likely no one knew. After Stalingrad was surrounded the Soviets attacked first the Italians along the Don, then the Hungarian sector and demolished them. There were literally no units between Veronezh area and the area where units sent to help free 6th army were, all wiped out.
This was amazing!
Thanks!
A great video.
Ah...the order of battle....I can speak for myself in saying this ww2 nerd LOVES IT...reminds me of my early education..THANK YOU
I've watched every video on this channel and it happend multiple times that I watch the next video and think "I haven't liked that video!"
Not because I like every video I watch but because you deserve it!
I like this! A special episode on Sunday, Sunday, Sunday!!
This episode was awesome
Indy is the Perfect narrator need more these videos an more in depth if possible. Love the series. Thank you!!!!
Wow this kind of episode is quite interesting!! Hope you can bring some more in the future
Anthony Beevor's Stalingrad is a must-read too!
Not really. Beevor is a good writer, but poor historian. He tends to add some some stories from fake or untrustworthy sources (or even making up his own), just to make the reading more interesting. And he often doesn't check the facts. For example he stated that commander of platoon Yakov Pavlov, the one who held the famous Pavlov's house, found a bible among the Stalingrad ruins and became a monk afterwards. Turns out it's not true. The one who became a monk was Ivan Pavlov, a different person, so Beevor didn't even checked the first names of those Pavlov guys. And I don't even want to start about portrayal of Chuikov or Paulus in his book.
@@Mikhalych88 I do remember that fact about Pavlov and that I couldn't find confirmation of it in any other sources, so you may be right there.
My roommate rolled her eyes at "Are there any World War Two nerds out there?"
But seriously, this is my lady jam.
Academic question - does being a WW2 nerd contribute to being in the Friend Zone? Discuss.
@@stevekaczynski3793 no
When ww2 ends, let's hope everyone will be here, let's start a Napoleonic war series? How about that???
Amen!
No 7 years wars
That's actually pretty tough because there are not many wars in modern history as fascinating from beginning to end over many years like WWII
Realtimehistory, the heirs of The Great War channel are making a week by week series of the Franco Prussian War
Korea? Vietnam? Iran-iraq? I suppose it depends on the accessibility and availability of sources
Yes! I can setup my 1942 scenario boardgame for Eastfront II. Thank you!
What is the board game called ?
"Eastfront II boardgame"
Very nice summary of the forces present. I would like to add Slovak "Rapid Division" (Rýchla Divízia) which was helping out Axis forces around Rostov. It was more or less support division at thhis point, since its frontline capabilities were wrecked by Soviets. They would later go down south towards Caucasus and would be flown out of there after battle of Stalingrad.
It definitely was not support unit in summer 1942. :-) It was the first Axis unit on the south bank of the river Don.
@@martinvojtek6076 Yop. But I must say I forgot that it got pretty clapped in december 42. I thought for some reason that this happened in 41. They have good times till winter arrives.
At Vinnitsa for pacification and security for the head of state's (Germay) headquarters there are the 1. Schützen kompanie, the 4. (schwere) Kompanie, and the 5. (Panzer) Kompanie and others to form the 1. Abteilung FlakRgt 604 comprising eight batteries, active 25 June 1942. See Seidler & Zeigert ..Secret Headquarters p. 112.
Best gift ever on a sunday!!!
I freaking love this channel.