Hello, although this is an old video the info is very current. I ride offroad and everyone I ride with using oring chains is telling me. " You don't need to lubricate the chain". I always used the recommended lube despite what they said now your video is backing up my claims of why you must lube an o ring chain. It's the rollers and not the inner pins that NEED lubrication ! Great video explanation thanks.
The O-RINGS keep the grease contained on the inside of the link bushings to lubricate the pins. That is their job as an o-ring, to seal the factory grease from coming out but they also keep any outside grease, oil, wax from coming in. Really all you can do is lube the o-rings to keep them wet and from deteorating, and most importantly lubing the rollers on the hollow pins. Spraying the whole chain makes it resistant to corrosion.
Nothing else on TH-cam explains this better. Thanks for sharing the details, no wonders chain manufacturers want 90 wt gear oil to be used to lube chain, not spray cans of chain lube
Great video. I've noticed chain oilers tend to apply a thin film on either side of the rear sprocket near the teeth. Centrifugal force from the spinning sprocket then moves the oil directly onto both sides of the chains rollers and right into that tiny gap. Perfect!
O-rings are rubber. They disintegrate in the acidic oils. The metal needs oil for reducing friction and corrosion. Thanks for the tip, I`ll check it out. At 50km/h any oil has 0.4 sec time to thin out and stick to the chain, before it pulls a 15G turn at the front sprocket. Viscosity matters a lot too.
I read the Scottoiler knowledge workshop document. They explain that it is the O-rings that need to be lubricated and cleaned. "O-rings are made of rubber which has a high coefficient of friction and are very sensitive to any damage. Unless the surfaces are kept moist, the rubber will harden and crack, exposing the link-pin to dirt and wear. When O-ring seals crack and fail they let the lubricant seep out." The roller-bush also needs to be clean and lubricated as the roller is the contact point between the chain and sprocket and ensures the chain can easily roll around the sprocket.
centrifugal force REmoves the oil from the chain, like spin-dryers remove water from soggy fabric. That`s the reason there is a need to re-lube continually. Capillary action spreads the oil. Chain oilers work well in general.
Good vidio--I new nothing about chains---nowI DOOO-I ALWAYS SOLD MY BIKES BE FOR I HAD TO SERVICE MY CHAIN--BUT AS A WISE OWEL I will be more diligent in the future -- THANKS ! !
Great video and instruction. Ok, tell me what NOT to use on a chain for cleaning. What about using a degreaser to initially clean the chain? Good or bad idea? Any recommendations on what the best product for the final stage of lubing?
A great product to assist with properly lubing your chain is the "Grease Ninja Chain Oiler." Check it out. PS - I am in no way affiliated with Grease Ninja. I am just a satisfied user who is passing along useful information.
Gerry Long cleaning, (although admittedly over-enthused, but just for arguments` sake): th-cam.com/video/44lT3llDdIY/w-d-xo.html pre-heat: @watch?v=UFV7y2joU74 lube: @watch?v=m5KPU_hNpGs
Yes, but the force first moves the oil film along the sides of the sprockets onto the chain rollers which is good. Unfortunately, the force then continues to move it past the chain and fling it off. The trick is to get just the right amount of oil. I'm surprised you don't use a chain oiler considering the wet climate you live in. Have you ever seen the inexpensive Loobman oiler? You just give the bottle a little squeeze and gravity/centrifugal force does the rest. Do the O-rings need oil?
great video. NO BS. still not sure what type of tool and fluid to use to CLEAN my chain. I was going to use a soft brush and brake cleaner problems: - I'm scared a tooth brush or a nylon brush will push dirt under the roller. - I was going to use brake cleaner for the dirt but now I'm scared it will wash away the factory grease new plan is vacuum the dirt away, brush off the left over dirt, then clean it with gear oil or chain lubricant, then spray lubricant in the necessary area ...does this sound good?
Subtract dirt - good. Cleaning - use chain cleaner. Lubing - back to addition, no problem. Chain cleaning video th-cam.com/video/44lT3llDdIY/w-d-xo.html
theoverengineer I can tell you it works, and the chain stays clean in street use, based on 100k miles of me using one. I've never manually oiled or cleaned the chain. Their website says "Excess oil will be flung off by the centrifugal forces of the chain, removing dirt and grit." Of course, where that flings off is partly on your bike and THAT needs to be cleaned but that true for any chain driven bike, and I use simple green diluted and a garden hose to clean that up. I dont bother with their expensive brand oil, I use cheap 2 stroke oil. Thats how you know Im an end user and not a company rep.
theoverengineer ...Pro-Oiler with GPS is even better (but of course also more expensive) as a pump injects an adjustable dose of oil according to the distance you’ve actually travelled (using GPS input), rather than gravity (which is time based, not based on distance or work rate). Light engine oil not only penetrates all components better, it flings off and takes the grit with it. Sticky spray lubricant keeps abrasives on the chain and it’s impossible to remove all the grit. I’ve done 87,000 km on one chain, never cleaned it, and adjusted slack only twice. The chain guides are all original too. www.pro-oiler.net
Great Information! Thanks, I Always wonder what/how and O ring chain worked. Was also wondering what you recommend for a quality chain lube. Would a wax lube be good?
@@theoverengineer Thanks. So they're different to any other seals such as those used for brake pistons? Your video is fantastic, but I've never been able to find a satisfactory answer to this bit.
Seals and gaskets in contact with oils and greases in bearings, chains, hydraulic lines, engine block, etc. are commonly PE or nitrile (or its variations), or in high/low heat applications silicone, PEEK, PTFE, Viton, polyacrylate. Seals and gaskets are also chemically different according to the pH of the grease/oil/fluid and its compatibility with EP additives. Silicone, for example, is very soft (can not be around abrasive materials, like dirt/sand particles on a chain), should not run dry, and deteriorates when exposed to oxidized (old) oils and greases. It really is chemical engineering.
HunterHunter88 Correctly riveted, the chains have and average tensile strength of 6000-10000 lbs force (2700 - 4500kg-f). The strongest bikes exert a 350-450lb pull force (160-200kg). Chains only break when incorrectly assembled.
my bike was out side and not in use for about 3 weeks and the chain was rusted up relay bad. so i got all the rust off it with a wire brush and lubed it. But some of the o rings are a bit zig-zaged, and i rode it around the drive and it was clicking and it got relay slack (and it was a new chain) do i need to buy a new one?
qw43gdtyghdrth All new bikes in the US, UK & Europe, Canada, Australia and NZ are sold with o-ring (x-ring, or other variations of shapes) chains. There might be models fitted without O-rings in the Philippines, Chad or Russia I don`t know about. Reason for not having o-rings: lack of o-ring friendly chain cleaners and lubricants in a region. I can`t tell much about Sub-Saharan bedouin parts delivery standards. They might be 3 months from everything, camels don`t need lubing.
+Brian Keith Visually near identical. Most differences between models and brands are invisible: different strength of steels are used or microscopically thicker/thinner sheets, seal could be chemically different, too and so could the lubricant.
i have one question about this rubber rings if them snap what then thain? How long they can work without snapping? Is it better chain without or with rubber rings?
+Paf Paff Keeping the chain properly cleaned and lubricated keeps the rubber rings soft so they don't break. If they snap then the grease on the pin can come out, then the chain will wear out quicker. A chain made without rubber rings needs cleaning and lubricating a lot more often.
+Paf Paff Chain drive IS designed to be fully enclosed in an oil bath, no O-rings, for power transfer over long distances. Could last 1,000,000 kms that way.
+theoverengineer so i can lub my chain every 200km and he will work long time without seize i read on internet that some guy lubhis chain every 300km and he change that chain after 20k km i dont like o ring idea rubber is rubber after some ime must to snap and soon chain is dead so i will use chain without o rings lub it properly clean it etc and i think it will work longer than chain with o rings
muhammad nor faiz bin jalani It is safe but it won`t work. Oil has a very low viscosity, will just fly right off the chain at minute 1. See my story: Chain mishap
NOT use: solvents and solvent-base cleaners (WD-40), anything that stinks like a solvent. Solvents eat up the rubber O or X-rings. Cleaning: yes, a must, make the gaps at the edges of the rollers accessible for liquid lubricants. Lubes have different viscosity, they stay set (or get liquidized) at different metal temperatures and ground speeds. See my video "Chain mishap"
Converting to chain is considered a downgrade. Chains need infinitely more maintenance than a belt or shaft. Especially in rain or dirt. Chains lose more of the engine`s power through friction than belts or shafts.
Think u might want to check that, chains are much better than belts and shafts at converting power to the rear wheels...its why all the high performance bikes still use chain and sprockets and lower powered cruisers like harleys use belts or drive shaft...scooters also use belt drives. Great vid though very thorough and detailed I like it.
Chains can take more power than belts. And they are more efficient than shafts. An O ring chain on steel sprockets will need adjusted after the first 50 miles or so, and then they pretty much last forever. Provided it is sized properly.
Hello, although this is an old video the info is very current. I ride offroad and everyone I ride with using oring chains is telling me. " You don't need to lubricate the chain". I always used the recommended lube despite what they said now your video is backing up my claims of why you must lube an o ring chain. It's the rollers and not the inner pins that NEED lubrication ! Great video explanation thanks.
The O-RINGS keep the grease contained on the inside of the link bushings to lubricate the pins. That is their job as an o-ring, to seal the factory grease from coming out but they also keep any outside grease, oil, wax from coming in. Really all you can do is lube the o-rings to keep them wet and from deteorating, and most importantly lubing the rollers on the hollow pins. Spraying the whole chain makes it resistant to corrosion.
Nothing else on TH-cam explains this better. Thanks for sharing the details, no wonders chain manufacturers want 90 wt gear oil to be used to lube chain, not spray cans of chain lube
I again like the style of your presentations. They are organized, thorough, unrushed and detailed. Thanks again for an instruction video well done.
You`re welcome, thanks for watching.
Great video.
I've noticed chain oilers tend to apply a thin film on either side of the rear sprocket near the teeth. Centrifugal force from the spinning sprocket then moves the oil directly onto both sides of the chains rollers and right into that tiny gap. Perfect!
12:16 Critical information here that I wish someone had told me years ago. Thank you.
Best explanation of exactly where to clean and lubricate on an O-ring chain.
Thanks for watching
O-rings are rubber. They disintegrate in the acidic oils. The metal needs oil for reducing friction and corrosion. Thanks for the tip, I`ll check it out.
At 50km/h any oil has 0.4 sec time to thin out and stick to the chain, before it pulls a 15G turn at the front sprocket. Viscosity matters a lot too.
Excellent Video. Thanks!
I read the Scottoiler knowledge workshop document. They explain that it is the O-rings that need to be lubricated and cleaned. "O-rings are made of rubber which has a high coefficient of friction and are very sensitive to any damage. Unless the surfaces are kept moist, the rubber will harden and crack, exposing the link-pin to dirt and wear. When O-ring seals crack and fail they let the lubricant seep out." The roller-bush also needs to be clean and lubricated as the roller is the contact point between the chain and sprocket and ensures the chain can easily roll around the sprocket.
Well written document, good stuff.
Those internal sprocket features are called a spline, not ribs.
Thanks. That video was helpful in explaining the "anatomy" of the chain and where the lube has to go!
Excellent video!...thanks for putting that together, great explanation of the workings of a chain.
You`re welcome, thanks for watching!
centrifugal force REmoves the oil from the chain, like spin-dryers remove water from soggy fabric. That`s the reason there is a need to re-lube continually. Capillary action spreads the oil. Chain oilers work well in general.
Good vidio--I new nothing about chains---nowI DOOO-I ALWAYS SOLD MY BIKES BE FOR I HAD TO SERVICE MY CHAIN--BUT AS A WISE OWEL I will be more diligent in the future -- THANKS ! !
THIS VIDEO REALLY HELPED.
THANKS.
Great video, even for budding young engineers :)
Thanks.
Great video and instruction. Ok, tell me what NOT to use on a chain for cleaning. What about using a degreaser to initially clean the chain? Good or bad idea?
Any recommendations on what the best product for the final stage of lubing?
A great product to assist with properly lubing your chain is the "Grease Ninja Chain Oiler." Check it out. PS - I am in no way affiliated with Grease Ninja. I am just a satisfied user who is passing along useful information.
Thanks for the info!
My very, very , very first video, unedited. I might re-shoot or re-edit sound.
VERY GOOD DEMONSTRATION. GOOD JOB.
my new chain got bent like u showed after 1 week lol
Interesting. Good stuff to know. Was thinking of converting one of the bikes to chain... now i don't know ;)
Nice done, mate. Btw, I have read somewhere that chain should be oiled every 300-500km
300-500 "miles", is probably what you read
Colton Drain Kawasaki zx-6 2014 user manual: "Lubricate every 600miles (1000km) OR after riding through rain OR any time the chain appears dry"
very good mate, do you have a vid showing cleaning and oiling the chain .....
Gerry Long cleaning, (although admittedly over-enthused, but just for arguments` sake): th-cam.com/video/44lT3llDdIY/w-d-xo.html
pre-heat: @watch?v=UFV7y2joU74
lube: @watch?v=m5KPU_hNpGs
Yes, but the force first moves the oil film along the sides of the sprockets onto the chain rollers which is good. Unfortunately, the force then continues to move it past the chain and fling it off. The trick is to get just the right amount of oil.
I'm surprised you don't use a chain oiler considering the wet climate you live in. Have you ever seen the inexpensive Loobman oiler? You just give the bottle a little squeeze and gravity/centrifugal force does the rest.
Do the O-rings need oil?
For all the ESL in South-East Asia, Middle East, etc.
I had to speed this up to 1.5x. He was killing me with all those uhhhs and stuters, and slow pace. First time ever to 1.5x
Oh yes, one of the first videos a decade+ ago ...
Well explained. Very informative thanks
Glad it was helpful!
great video. NO BS.
still not sure what type of tool and fluid to use to CLEAN my chain.
I was going to use a soft brush and brake cleaner
problems:
- I'm scared a tooth brush or a nylon brush will push dirt under the roller.
- I was going to use brake cleaner for the dirt but now I'm scared it will wash away the factory grease
new plan is vacuum the dirt away, brush off the left over dirt, then clean it with gear oil or chain lubricant, then spray lubricant in the necessary area ...does this sound good?
Subtract dirt - good.
Cleaning - use chain cleaner.
Lubing - back to addition, no problem.
Chain cleaning video th-cam.com/video/44lT3llDdIY/w-d-xo.html
okay, chain cleaner won't wash away roller grease?
It does, together with the dirt particles stuck into it. After cleaning all the lubricant needs replacement.
ScottOiler. Buy one. Chains last twice as long and you never have to do any of this. It washes itself clean.
Looks good on paper, but at what point does continually adding a lubricant wash anything clean? Does the manufacturer even claim it?
theoverengineer I can tell you it works, and the chain stays clean in street use, based on 100k miles of me using one. I've never manually oiled or cleaned the chain. Their website says "Excess oil will be flung off by the centrifugal forces of the chain, removing dirt and grit." Of course, where that flings off is partly on your bike and THAT needs to be cleaned but that true for any chain driven bike, and I use simple green diluted and a garden hose to clean that up. I dont bother with their expensive brand oil, I use cheap 2 stroke oil. Thats how you know Im an end user and not a company rep.
Thanks for commenting, good stuff.
theoverengineer anytime
theoverengineer ...Pro-Oiler with GPS is even better (but of course also more expensive) as a pump injects an adjustable dose of oil according to the distance you’ve actually travelled (using GPS input), rather than gravity (which is time based, not based on distance or work rate). Light engine oil not only penetrates all components better, it flings off and takes the grit with it. Sticky spray lubricant keeps abrasives on the chain and it’s impossible to remove all the grit. I’ve done 87,000 km on one chain, never cleaned it, and adjusted slack only twice. The chain guides are all original too. www.pro-oiler.net
Well said.
I have a Honda XR 125L, which has about 12 horsepower. Will a O-ring connecting link (without the rivet) suffice?
Kind regards
Pulsar ns 200 o ring chain cleaning by using petrol any problem
Great Information! Thanks, I Always wonder what/how and O ring chain worked. Was also wondering what you recommend for a quality chain lube. Would a wax lube be good?
Wax ok but what kind? See: th-cam.com/video/1OxvR2qUhQI/w-d-xo.html Also there is: th-cam.com/video/UFV7y2joU74/w-d-xo.html
Why can't they use O-rings at the ends of the inner roller pins?
The metal sprocket teeth would destroy them fast.
"positively riveting"
Very good video. The only bit missing is the type of grease that's put under the o-rings by the manufacturers. Is it white lithium grease?
Could be any grade #2 or #1, maybe even EP grease, by some chain manufacturers
@@theoverengineer Thanks, but wouldn't petroleum based oil cause swelling in rubber?
Rings are synthetic, not natural rubber. They thought of that.
@@theoverengineer Thanks. So they're different to any other seals such as those used for brake pistons? Your video is fantastic, but I've never been able to find a satisfactory answer to this bit.
Seals and gaskets in contact with oils and greases in bearings, chains, hydraulic lines, engine block, etc. are commonly PE or nitrile (or its variations), or in high/low heat applications silicone, PEEK, PTFE, Viton, polyacrylate.
Seals and gaskets are also chemically different according to the pH of the grease/oil/fluid and its compatibility with EP additives.
Silicone, for example, is very soft (can not be around abrasive materials, like dirt/sand particles on a chain), should not run dry, and deteriorates when exposed to oxidized (old) oils and greases.
It really is chemical engineering.
How strong are these type of chains. What are the chances of them snapping as you ride?
HunterHunter88 Correctly riveted, the chains have and average tensile strength of 6000-10000 lbs force (2700 - 4500kg-f). The strongest bikes exert a 350-450lb pull force (160-200kg). Chains only break when incorrectly assembled.
Excellent review
my bike was out side and not in use for about 3 weeks and the chain was rusted up relay bad. so i got all the rust off it with a wire brush and lubed it. But some of the o rings are a bit zig-zaged, and i rode it around the drive and it was clicking and it got relay slack (and it was a new chain) do i need to buy a new one?
Ultimately, yes. Now, you might be able to get by on this for months by adjusting out the slack, but 2 sprockets also need to be changed with a chain.
Are all motorcycles made with o ring chains now or do they still make some with none o ring chains?
qw43gdtyghdrth All new bikes in the US, UK & Europe, Canada, Australia and NZ are sold with o-ring (x-ring, or other variations of shapes) chains. There might be models fitted without O-rings in the Philippines, Chad or Russia I don`t know about.
Reason for not having o-rings: lack of o-ring friendly chain cleaners and lubricants in a region. I can`t tell much about Sub-Saharan bedouin parts delivery standards. They might be 3 months from everything, camels don`t need lubing.
nice socket video
Great video
Thank u so much! :)
Very good video. (Esp for a 1st time)
I just ordered a d.i.d vx2 chain how dose that compare to the chain in your video
+Brian Keith Visually near identical. Most differences between models and brands are invisible: different strength of steels are used or microscopically thicker/thinner sheets, seal could be chemically different, too and so could the lubricant.
+theoverengineer That's the best response I've received thank you for the info. new subscriber!
F#ck it...time to go back to a shaft drive. Thanks for the video.
i have one question about this rubber rings if them snap what then thain? How long they can work without snapping? Is it better chain without or with rubber rings?
+Paf Paff Keeping the chain properly cleaned and lubricated keeps the rubber rings soft so they don't break. If they snap then the grease on the pin can come out, then the chain will wear out quicker. A chain made without rubber rings needs cleaning and lubricating a lot more often.
+MrIfixplanes so how to keep rubber ring soft? and by my research better is chain without o'rings but to lub them often?
+Paf Paff Chain drive IS designed to be fully enclosed in an oil bath, no O-rings, for power transfer over long distances. Could last 1,000,000 kms that way.
+Paf Paff Using chain on a motorbike is a serious compromise. O-rings keep the lube in place. Once gone the chain dries out fast and seizes.
+theoverengineer so i can lub my chain every 200km and he will work long time without seize i read on internet that some guy lubhis chain every 300km and he change that chain after 20k km i dont like o ring idea rubber is rubber after some ime must to snap and soon chain is dead so i will use chain without o rings lub it properly clean it etc and i think it will work longer than chain with o rings
Is it ok if I lubricate my drive train using engine oil...
muhammad nor faiz bin jalani It is safe but it won`t work. Oil has a very low viscosity, will just fly right off the chain at minute 1. See my story: Chain mishap
theoverengineer thx for the link man.
NOT use: solvents and solvent-base cleaners (WD-40), anything that stinks like a solvent. Solvents eat up the rubber O or X-rings.
Cleaning: yes, a must, make the gaps at the edges of the rollers accessible for liquid lubricants.
Lubes have different viscosity, they stay set (or get liquidized) at different metal temperatures and ground speeds. See my video "Chain mishap"
This is a sprocket, not a socket? Great video, instruction? OMG
excellent
I keep waiting for this guy to yell "MINUS 20 DKP, STOP DOTS STOP DOTS" but he never does. Otherwise, great video.
Converting to chain is considered a downgrade. Chains need infinitely more maintenance than a belt or shaft. Especially in rain or dirt. Chains lose more of the engine`s power through friction than belts or shafts.
Think u might want to check that, chains are much better than belts and shafts at converting power to the rear wheels...its why all the high performance bikes still use chain and sprockets and lower powered cruisers like harleys use belts or drive shaft...scooters also use belt drives. Great vid though very thorough and detailed I like it.
Chains can take more power than belts. And they are more efficient than shafts. An O ring chain on steel sprockets will need adjusted after the first 50 miles or so, and then they pretty much last forever. Provided it is sized properly.
I don't think the video needs to have "charm", to be effective, and it WAS effective. No need for a reshoot.
Thanks, guys
Pauses in the instructions are killing the charm
"worked off" = peened.