Oh my, I’m so very sorry you had such hurtful comments. Unfortunately medical care isn’t the same for pets as it is for humans, it’s so much more limited and impossible to protect their quality of life, sometimes euthanasia is the right choice as their owners we know when it’s time.
This video couldn't have come at a better timing for me. We just came back from putting my 2 and half year old hamster Oreo to sleep. You could really see his age for the past month on him, he wasn't really going on the wheel or coming out much, but he was still enjoying treats, foraging for food and going on his sandbath. Last night at 2am I saw that he was stumbling around and couldn't really keep balance. His right eye was completely shut. I could really tell that he was in pain and not having a good quality of life. He wasn't even able to clean himself up anymore, he had probably been sitting in his pee for several days as his tummy was yellowed (he was always a ghost hammie and his burrows were always very deep, so I hadn't been able to see that until last night). I knew I had to make a decision. It is always painful, but it would've been more painful to him to keep deteriorating at that rate. I couldn't stand seeing him suffer like he was. I got to spend his last moments holding him at the vets, I was never able to hold him before. He's now on the other side of the Rainbow Bridge 💔 Thank you Emily for speaking about this.
i needed to hear 'better a day too early than a day too late' today. my poor sweet boy charcoal biscuit, a dwarf hamster, had a rapidly growing malignant tumor on his back and i knew it was his time, but some part of me was going 'yeah, but he's still acting normally, you should have tried for surgical removal or antibiotics just in case it was an abscess' even after two vets told me it was definitely a tumor and that he may not have survived the anaesthetic regardless. he's only been gone for a day and i'm still checking to see if he's out and about every time i get up and getting weepy when i remember again and i just yeah. i really needed to be reminded i did the right thing to end his suffering instead of prolonging it on a tiny chance. thank you for that, and i'm sorry people are being jerks to you.
This is such an important thing to talk about, still see too many people say that you're a heartless owner if you euthanasia your pet when their quality of life is bad. In facebook rat groups I see so often people who have an elderly sick rat living alone because it can't get along with others anymore or other rats bully that rat, how the rat will just lay and sleep and the rat will only eat high value treats, but they don't want to hear anything about possibly having the rat euthanized because they are still eating. I know it's no one else's decision, but damn is it hard to read about and see. Humbug's tumor story was very similar to my Jasper's, he got a tumor under his belly near his right hind leg and at first it grew slowly and didn't really bother him, he was elderly and I didn't want to put him through surgery. Then at some point it started to grow faster and he was having a bit of difficulty moving around. The hard part was that mentally he was still very much himself, but his quality of life was suddenly going downhill fast and I knew I needed to let him go.
Thank you Emi for making this video and sharing the importance of pet welfare and quality of life! I'll come back to this video everytime I'll feel helpless or worried about my rats because it helps so much!💞
Hi Emi.... I'm 66 now... Had dogs for 50 years.... Life is a journey and your vid opened my eyes.... Had ginea pigs and rabbits and hamster.... You are never too old to learn... Thank you.
You are just a person that cares so deeply about your animals! Do you know when the time is right and allowing them to suffer is not an option! I give you so much credit for what you do and how you take such good care of your animals you are truly an inspiration to me!!
Also , you gave the best to Crumble , he was so loved and you could tell from a mile away, anyone who has said that to you didn't see how spoiled and cherished he was all his little ratty life x
I really like this calculator. My eldest is going on 3 years old and has a mammary tumor that's been growing since she was two. She's starting to show her age and is having some mobility issues currently. Definitely gearing up to say goodbye and the calculator says as much. I almost wish I got the tumor removed but I never expected her to reach three (She's my longest living rodent).
My oldest rat Lavender is going through the same thing. He's about two and a half and I noticed a tumor growing on him a few months ago. He's too old to operate on but sometimes I do wish I had taken the risk to put him through surgery, but ultimately I don't regret it. Since then it's gotten really big, but he can still run around and bruxes and cuddles and gets excited about treats, though he doesn't get as excited about his normal rat nuggets anymore. It's a tough situation to be in and I doubt he'll make it through the next month or so. Just trying to cherish him while he's here. I wish rats didn't have such a damn short lifespan.
@@corvarts9311 I feel your struggle. After 2 years old its such a risk for surgery of any kind. My girl is still okay but like yours, she is definitely almost ready to pass
I cried because my heart-rat Sven was the first of my boys to go... he passed as I held him in my arms 😭 I still think of him from time to time (obviously my current ladies are on my mind always).
Ppl who make nasty comments, obviously are the ones who don't love pets above, their own wants.. Last wk my 1 yr ratty had surgery on a large mammory tumour. I was very stressed that I'd loose her. If the vet hadn't of operated I'd of eventually had to pts. I also lost my rescue pygmy hedgehog to liver failure this wk. So I understand its not easy to loose a pet. So sorry for your loss emi. 🌈🐁♥️🐭🌈♥️
My best dog friend passed on Tuesday whilst i was on holiday in mexico and it was hard not being in the uk when he went. But animals arent just pets they are family but you cant keep them in pain 😢
I’m going through this with my favourite mouse right now , I think it’s time , she’s my absolute baby though but she’s not doing well, I’ll miss you Chips ❤
Sorry you got those nasty comments Emmy. It’s so clear to me how well you take care of your mice and rats, you have given me the knowledge to always strive towards offering my own mice a better quality of life, and I’ve learned so much from you. ❤
I've had to euthenise two of my girls this week due to likely neurological events that left the one disorientated, wobbly, walking in circles and partially paralysed and the other mostly paralysed. Both were incredibly sudden but they were both around two year old. The second rat didn't even need the euthanasia to pass and passed away with just analgesic. It's been really hard and a little traumatizing but your video has helped put me a little more at peace for making these hard decisions for their quality of life. Thank you.
Thank you for this. In my country - people suggest letting rats with paralyzed back legs still live (with according accomodations), but to me it feels cruel - especially for a rat that never liked being looked at - let alone handled. I can't imagine he would enjoy being cleaned by me... I am considering letting him go and expecting nasty comments. Gonna give him best weeks of his live tho... ❤
Thats so rude of them to say things like that? You would already be super sad and down from your rat dying and then on top, people have the urge to say things like that? It's actually the best thing to do, and they would be suffering way way more if they were kept alive. Keeping them alive is the selfish thing to do? I love you and thanks for making all of your videos ur amazing
This is a very important topic! Many people refuse to even acknowledge the end of life stages of their pets. Even more so with small pets that have shorter lifespans. Thanks. ❤
Thank you for this, I recently lost one of my mice, it was a very difficult experience to see her in so much pain and has been looming over me. I'm glad she is now comfortable and in a better place, and i'm glad to know it was the right thing to do.
Thanks for this video! I wish I heard all this when I was going through loosing my first rat who was my heart rat. He had ZGT, was absolutely nasty, opened up and half his head was exposed with visible tissues that kept getting inflamed. I kept trying on everything I could that was suggested by the vet. At this stage he couldn’t really do his usual things, he only had liquid supplement food etc. I kept him hanging when the kindest thing was to PTS. His last week I spent 24/7 sitting next to him making sure he doesn’t cause bleeding by scratching the tumor, giving him water and food. There was no quality in his life and I regret not PTS him earlier. Definitely best to do a day earlier than later, when my other rat got same ZGT I made the decision quickly and he didn’t suffer ❤️
Currently 2 of my 3 rats have a tumour.. one has a much bigger one. I haven't noticed discolouration or tightening yet but thank you so much for this video cause this really helps me right now.
My pair died within the same month. Buffy died while I was out, and Willow was fighting for the longest time. I got meds for her from the vet and she seemed better for a little bit, but a week later I realized she wouldn't get better and had to put her down. The first time I have ever had to do that 😢
Hi Emily. Greetings from California. You are a kind person and you've given so many animals a good life. Your knowledge and compassion have shown the viewers how to take care of mice in a more humane environment. Thank you for all that you do.❤
I'm so sorry you've had mean comments. It really is better a day too early than a day too late. Thank you for posting the chart. I actually had to euthanize my cat last month, she got sick very suddenly and the chart you did actually really helped me today to see that we made the right choice. 🥺
Thank you for putting yourself out there and make this video , this could not have been a easy one for you I watched your videos when making research for my first babies who are now two years old , and have 3 baby brothers that we are going to introduce soon , me and my partner even have your rat mom and dad keychains and a polaroid signed by you of one of your boys This video was hard to watch , as one of the old boys passed away a little over a month under my care doing one of his treatments , it was very sudden , and i have lived in a lot of guilt thinking i could have been selfish and neglectful and not seen the signs I did the calculator , and it brought me a lot of closure to have seen that he was closer to the healthy rat score than not , and that he needed to go in that time , but that we gave him the best life we could x That calculator will be a great tool to use in future for our living ones , i appreciate you sharing it with us , truly x
Thank you so much! I have a rat with a cancerous tumor and she’s not doing to good. This helps me a lot! I will be putting her down on the 15th. 😢 I hope all is well for you and your family!❤
Yesterday, got home from work at 6pm and heard constant squeaking/sneezing. I identified the girly, separated her, and made a Vet appointment for today. Before people get rodents, they should make sure there is a Vet that will see them because not every Vet will. I love my mouse Vet because he’s the best small animal Vet imo. I now have Baytril and Rheumocam antibiotics to give her a tiny dot or twice a day.
Emi is a very comforting presence when it comes to grieving rats from your mischief. If you continuously keep rats you know how hard it is but atleast we have these videos to watch to prepare and that's so comforting in an unfortunate circumstance
The thing a lot of people forget when they throw out the “You wouldn’t just put a human in that condition to sleep!” is that humans are capable of UNDERSTANDING their condition/s… whereas a pet is not. A human can learn to use a wheelchair or cane to compensate for loss of mobility, as an example. You can explain to a person how they will need to alter their lifestyle due to injury or illness. It’s still heartbreaking and difficult for a person to come to terms with declining health, but at least they can understand what is happening and work with care providers to maintain as much quality of life as is possible. An animal doesn’t understand why their body isn’t working like it used to; they will keep trying to engage in normal behaviors and routines, and experience pain and frustration. They won’t understand why they’re constantly having to make trips to the vet, to be poked and prodded at… or why icky-tasting medicine keeps getting forced down their throat. A human forced into a sedentary lifestyle at least has books to read, videos to watch, conversations to engage in… but a pet does not. The pet still needs mental and physical stimulation, but now has no way of getting it. It’s a horrible thing to see happen to any living thing, let alone a beloved pet. I understand why emotions run so high with regard to the euthanasia of pets, but it is CRITICAL here to understand how a suffering animal’s situation differs from a human’s. 😢
Sad as this video is it will be incredibly comforting to a lot of people who had to make this decision may secretly be feeling a lot of guilt because of it.
After 5 years, I started getting rats again. I adopted 2 old rats from one of my friends (breakup situation - she couldn't take them and she didn't trust her ex partner with them), and we had to put one of them to sleep this past June... it was the hardest thing, but watching him suffer was even harder... His brother is still doing well, and will be 4 in October. We did adopt 2 younger males prior to having to put our old Albert to sleep, so his brother is not alone :)
thank you for this, i was really struggling with having to put down my rat but it was the right decision that i came to with the vet. It would have been cruel to keep my baby alive, i didn't want him to suffer💔
I've had only female fancy mice and they're notorious for developing mammary tumors. I've lost almost half of my female mice to tumors, ranging from 6 months to 3 years. The breeders are super grateful to receive feedback on which mice develop tumors as if there's a larger than usual number of siblings from a brood, they'll cease breeding that pair in order to try and breed healthier mice. Unfortunately, mice in general are very prone to both cancer and respitory diseases. It is a very, very difficult decision to determine when it's time to let them go. For me, it's generally been when they start becoming lethargic, when they have trouble moving because of the tumor, their personal hygiene starts deteriorating (flaky, oily fur), their eyes dull over or when the tumor is placed in a location where it's going to interfere with their base biological functions (eyesight, hearing, eating, pooping, peeing etc). The last mouse I had to let sleep had her tumor in the left groin and it grew large enough that it was risking to block either her large intestine or the anus itself. I let her sleep before it came to the point where she got constipated. It's never easy putting a hard limit or time on when it's time to let them sleep. It's very individual depending on pain, health in general, where a tumor is etc. This was a very helpful video and your information largely lines up with my own experience and opinion.
My beautiful 3 year old boy Snowy developed a neurological disorder and wasn't functioning very well. Our wonderful vet put him on what she called a 'comfort' med and it really helped him. He lived for another couple of months and was quite happy. Funny thing- the night before he passed, during out-time, he spent an hour searching the house because a wild mouse had gotten in. I think it was probably a female mouse and Snowy was searching for her to be his girlfriend!!!!
I'm sure your comments on this video will all be sad stories and I'm sorry if I'm adding to the mental strain of that 😅 but I actually had the best euthanasia experience recently with my older rabbit Wayne. Other euthanasia has been through trauma or untreatable illness when their lifespan wasn't finished and it was awful and unfair for them. He'd slowly gotten more and more mobility issues, kidney issues, cataracts, an abscess on his back etc just a lot at once but most age related that would only get worse, never better. I had never been allowed to stay with my rabbits before, they always took them into the back and then came out with them on a blanket already passed and I prepared myself for the same. She actually got him comfortable on the table in a blanket as I stroked his head and he fell asleep, then she administered the medication and left, and he then stayed asleep and stopped breathing. It was gentle and unexpected for him, especially since he was never that bothered about vet trips! I was allowed to sit in the consultation room on my own and have time to get my emotion out and say goodbye. Nice to sit with him and not one day walk in to find him gone at home, or for it to be traumatic and rushed. Think that's also one of the only times I've not over thought it and was very confident in my decision that it was the best possible scenario. Still got the "I can't believe you killed him because he can't see very well" comments 😂 suppose the cataract was the only visible thing I couldn't escape sharing but what can you do 🫣
This video helped me a lot. I'm feeling really bad I had to put 3 of my rats to sleep. We still don't know what exactly happened to Opos, there was no exotic vet around us at that moment who could help her, she was in so much pain. Tiny was almost 2 years old when we found she has tumor, at the same time I spent all money for emergency surgery for Coco after a fight with other rat, her eye had to be removed. We let Tiny go 4 months later when her skin turn dark, the same day it started bleeding. Three days ago we said goodbye to Eye, she suddenly started side-sucking, stopped eating, she was fighting for every breath, vet said it's probably tumor that press on her lungs or can cause internal bleeding. "Her chances to recover are very very low" so how could I let her suffer... Sometimes there is no other way then let them go peacefully...
One day I came across a post online from someone that claimed they were a veterinarian but what they posted really changed my outlook a bit by seeing it from a totally different perspective. Anyway, they basically said that, in the wild when they are weak that is when they end up succumbing to death or being another animal’s meal and their suffering is ended, but in captivity with treatment today we are able to keep animals hanging on to their lives at great lengths and sometimes thereby extending their suffering. Anyway, that did change my outlook on euthanasia quite a bit - but idk if I would ever be able to make that call myself. Thought I’d share if it helps anyone. ❤
Thanks so much for sharing your experience with Humbug. I have a 2 and a half year old boy named Lavender with a tumor in about the same spot, and it's gotten really big over the past 3 months. I chose not to operate for the same reasons. The skin is starting to get tighter in that area so I'm probably going to have to start thinking about euthanasia in the next few weeks. :'( I appreciate you sharing your experience and perspective. It just sucks because he still has so much life in him, I just don't want him to die painfully/traumatically.
Im sorry to hear about the hurtful comments, i think its plain for all to see you've always had your pets welfare paramount. On a lighter note, the mouse enclosure behind you looks a fascinating set-up right now. Please could you spend just a couple of minutes showing us around? 🙂
My hamster was put down recently due to cancer, and I hate how ppl think it’s “murdering” to put an animal down so they are free from pain. If we didn’t put incredibly ill animals down, then the thing they are suffering from will build worse and lead to a worser death. I’m so sorry abt these nasty comments, they really need to educate themselves
Aug. 2nd, I had to say goodbye to my heart rat. Had a tumor that had grown from a ping pong ball size to almost a baseball size in just over a month. Did the removal surgery, after surgery she weighed just over 200g and the tumor weighed over 400g!!!! She then passed about an hour after we got home 😢. I had her cremated! Some thought I was insane for spending $500 on a rat - but they just don't understand! Others were very understanding and shocked/saddened when I told them.
I've been struggling with this, my old lady has been declining and she's still eating and accepting cuddles but she's withering away 😢 I never want to make the call TOO soon, but I don't want them to suffer either, and that is such a hard decision
People have to understand that in nature, prey animals like rats wouldn't hang around suffering, because as soon as they became even a little sick, and unable to move as quickly as normal, they would be killed by an owl, hawk, fox, cat, dog, snake or any other number of predators. Nature is kinder in that way, because a quick death by predator is preferable to a week or longer of dying by some tumor squashing your internal organs or respiratory disorder making it difficult to breathe
Against animals getting put to sleep and I can understand some animals should be put to sleep when they're really suffering it's horrible to see so I recommend the vet put it to sleep but I couldn't handle it one bit cuz I would cry my eyes I don't judge other people for what they do is there a decision and I think in your way is the right decision you should always believe in your way and don't let other people put you down for what you believe in and don't let those comments hurt your feelings because you always have to think positive and not the negative you have a big heart and you should not let people stomp all over it I had a dog named Lacey she was a wonderful dog she stopped walking so I had to put her down because of her suffering and I don't want that for any kind of dog or any animal suffer that much pain so good for you to do the sorry I over a message
A few months ago I had a similar issue with my rat ace she was only 8 months but unfortunately she kept spending a lot of times in corner, not eating and kept falling over every time she was grooming herself and trying to cling onto the nearest object. When i went to the vet they checked for diabetes and it wasn’t that. So they asked their refferal pratice and they assumed it was an infection in her private part. So the vet either told me to go with the surgery or to consider putting her down. I tried the surgery which she survived but when she was recovering the medication wasn’t working and all her symptoms got a lot worse and more frequent and i couldn’t watch her suffer anymore so I choose to put her to sleep.
How do you deal with the loss of a rat? I have two and I’m really worried for the day that one of them passes and the other is alone… do you have any advice on how to help other rats greave and what the next steps are
saying goodbye is super hard. When i lost my heart rat i stopped having rats. He turned 3½ and we thought he had an abcess on his foot. it wouldn't go away. Turned out to be bonecancer T_T was the ONLY thing wrong with him. he was old, yes. but he was healthy otherwise. was a tough dayt, but the pain my little baby must have been in T_T
Just for help, I’m getting mice. However I’ve been looking for months every day on selling sites and haven’t seen any near me. Also no breeders or rescues. I already spent nearly all my money on mouse items and so my only option at this point is a pet store. If we had to go with pet store we were thinking we could ask them to separate some females for us so we don’t get a pregnant mouse. Do you think that will work or should we just somehow sell the stuff I bought and not get the mice? None of my friends or people I know have owned/owns mice either. We have a certain pet store we go to so we know some of the workers there btw
Often you can find good big cages on places like Facebook market place so you don’t end up paying as much. The pet planet cage is quite common on there!
I am shocked that these ridiculous people are against euthanasia it isn’t something pet owners want to do but it is because we love our pets that we do it! Nobody should ignore their pets behaviours, not wanting to eat, unable to stand etc etc, now that is cruel, these people are the ignorant, selfish and lack of intelligence! My grandmother died of pancreatic cancer and the pain was horrific, to watch her dying in pain was devastating if I was able to choose I would want the doctors to give her something to end her life without the pain she suffering. My pets are my family i love them with every bone in my body which means I would hate to see them suffer, my choice is euthanasia every time I am responsible for these gorgeous animals they deserve to be at peace! Every time I have had to put an animal to sleep the vet checks them they would never put a healthy pet asleep! I am so sorry for these vile ignorant people giving you a hard time just know you other subs love your channel and we love you, your videos are always great so please lots more videos! p.s. if you don’t understand my message I do apologise I have had quite a large does of morphine, so I am sorry! 💕💕💕🐭🐭🐭🐀🐀🐀
hello! im hoping that you could possibly pls help me. my rat is in the early stages of what i think is a respiratory infection. hes busy losing some weight. do you know of any food or fruit i could feed him to boost his immune system? i dont have the finances to afford a vet appointment or meds now. thanks!
I’d focus more on thinking if there’s anything in his environment that could have caused a respiratory infection (dust, spraying deodorant around him etc) just to make sure. Unfortunately there’s no at home remedies or things you can feed him that will cure him if what he needs is a vet visit with antibiotics if it doesn’t go away. You can get supplements to add to their water called Dr squiggles that generally provide them with vitamins and minerals
i feel that people that are living those hatefull comments never really care for their pets. Never had to really take care for dying animal. I lost my whole heard in just two months. Due to Lymphoma. Two times I was to late with decision about euthanasia. It's just sad, that people don't understand that animals don't care for they stupid ideologies. When they suffer there is just pain, and allowing for pain, suffering and low quality of life means not doing your job as caretaker.
God im sorry people are such dicks I think you did a really hard thing and its gross they would want his suffering to be prolonged. I think all the small animals in your care are in a loving home ❤ you always put their needs first
Such an important topic! I see too many animals on forums and tiktoks, that should been put down awhile back.. Euthanizing is also apart of good animal welfare
I usually only take special needs animals so I often get the opposite comments, that they should have been euthanised ages ago etc 🙄 unfortunately everyone thinks they know better than the people caring for them. Ive only had a few animals euthanised, a hamster who injured her spine and became paralysed, a guinea pig with bladder cancer and an african fat tailed gecko with a bowel tumour, she was let go in the middle of surgery. I find my guinea pigs go from fine to gone very quickly, theyre supported with syringe feeding, whatever medications they need to be kept comfortable, for as long as theyre still enjoying life. Several times ive been at the vet and theyve said they still have excellent quality of life and theyre happy to continue treatment etc then several hours later theyve passed away very gently (I basically live at the vet at this point 😅). People who make negative comments have no idea what caring for a sick animal really entails, if youre not going to dedicate a serious amount of time and money keeping them comfortable, keeping them alive is often just cruel. As someone who keeps euthanasia as a very last resort, I remember watching your Crumble video and thinking "aw he still looks quite happy" but had the common sense to realise of course youre not going to be including the bad days, hours etc in those clips. Anyway, sorry you had to make this video, some people are so arrogant in their opinion. Palliative care, caring for elderly or special needs pets and euthanasia is not a one size fits all experience.
I'm not against people euthanising their pets, but I prefer to let my rodents die naturally, at the end they generally pass away within 1-2 weeks of becoming very unwell. I nursed my gerbil whilst she was nearing passing, I fed and watered her, and was with her when she took her final breath, I saw her spirit leave her body. It was emotionally a very draining experience, but I felt really honoured to look after her and to be by her side during that time. After she passed I believe I got a spiritual message from her saying she was glad I was next to her, and that now she had let this life go and was on with her new life ❤️
In an ideal world I think we’d all prefer for them to pass naturally! But it doesn’t always work that way and would often mean starving / dehydrating for a few days at the end and that’s really uncomfortable 😩
@@Emiology Thankfully she would take food and drink from me until the last day, but yes i can understand, maybe if it had gone on for a longer amount of time I may have considered taking her to be put to sleep ,but thankfully it didn't come to that, and she was next to my bed with me the whole time ❤️. Just like to add I'm not judgemental against people who do euthanise their pets ❤️
I have to disagree. You should put suffering in a video and show people. Not eveybody knows what pain looks like in a rodent and this would be helpful. You don't have to watch the video again if you don't want to. My pet rat that I rescued is on a few meds. According to my vet he's not suffering so I let him be. However I know I'll soon have to put him to sleep.
People are over sensitive, I’ve shown ‘suffering’ to show the reality of where their animals come from when buying from a pet store and people are angry at me for showing it, not angry as the source because it’s too upsetting for them to see. A memorial video is supposed to be a nice video, I show the reality of things in vlogs all the time.
I understand where you are coming from. I think that showing what pain looks like in a rat would be helpful. Actually, maybe not show, but explain. Some people, like me, don't know enough. I know about the squinting eyes, but that's about it.
Oh my, I’m so very sorry you had such hurtful comments. Unfortunately medical care isn’t the same for pets as it is for humans, it’s so much more limited and impossible to protect their quality of life, sometimes euthanasia is the right choice as their owners we know when it’s time.
This video couldn't have come at a better timing for me. We just came back from putting my 2 and half year old hamster Oreo to sleep. You could really see his age for the past month on him, he wasn't really going on the wheel or coming out much, but he was still enjoying treats, foraging for food and going on his sandbath. Last night at 2am I saw that he was stumbling around and couldn't really keep balance. His right eye was completely shut. I could really tell that he was in pain and not having a good quality of life. He wasn't even able to clean himself up anymore, he had probably been sitting in his pee for several days as his tummy was yellowed (he was always a ghost hammie and his burrows were always very deep, so I hadn't been able to see that until last night). I knew I had to make a decision. It is always painful, but it would've been more painful to him to keep deteriorating at that rate. I couldn't stand seeing him suffer like he was. I got to spend his last moments holding him at the vets, I was never able to hold him before. He's now on the other side of the Rainbow Bridge 💔 Thank you Emily for speaking about this.
i needed to hear 'better a day too early than a day too late' today. my poor sweet boy charcoal biscuit, a dwarf hamster, had a rapidly growing malignant tumor on his back and i knew it was his time, but some part of me was going 'yeah, but he's still acting normally, you should have tried for surgical removal or antibiotics just in case it was an abscess' even after two vets told me it was definitely a tumor and that he may not have survived the anaesthetic regardless. he's only been gone for a day and i'm still checking to see if he's out and about every time i get up and getting weepy when i remember again and i just yeah. i really needed to be reminded i did the right thing to end his suffering instead of prolonging it on a tiny chance. thank you for that, and i'm sorry people are being jerks to you.
This is such an important thing to talk about, still see too many people say that you're a heartless owner if you euthanasia your pet when their quality of life is bad.
In facebook rat groups I see so often people who have an elderly sick rat living alone because it can't get along with others anymore or other rats bully that rat, how the rat will just lay and sleep and the rat will only eat high value treats, but they don't want to hear anything about possibly having the rat euthanized because they are still eating. I know it's no one else's decision, but damn is it hard to read about and see.
Humbug's tumor story was very similar to my Jasper's, he got a tumor under his belly near his right hind leg and at first it grew slowly and didn't really bother him, he was elderly and I didn't want to put him through surgery. Then at some point it started to grow faster and he was having a bit of difficulty moving around. The hard part was that mentally he was still very much himself, but his quality of life was suddenly going downhill fast and I knew I needed to let him go.
Thank you Emi for making this video and sharing the importance of pet welfare and quality of life! I'll come back to this video everytime I'll feel helpless or worried about my rats because it helps so much!💞
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Hi Emi.... I'm 66 now... Had dogs for 50 years....
Life is a journey and your vid opened my eyes....
Had ginea pigs and rabbits and hamster....
You are never too old to learn... Thank you.
You are just a person that cares so deeply about your animals! Do you know when the time is right and allowing them to suffer is not an option! I give you so much credit for what you do and how you take such good care of your animals you are truly an inspiration to me!!
Also , you gave the best to Crumble , he was so loved and you could tell from a mile away, anyone who has said that to you didn't see how spoiled and cherished he was all his little ratty life x
I really like this calculator. My eldest is going on 3 years old and has a mammary tumor that's been growing since she was two. She's starting to show her age and is having some mobility issues currently. Definitely gearing up to say goodbye and the calculator says as much. I almost wish I got the tumor removed but I never expected her to reach three (She's my longest living rodent).
My oldest rat Lavender is going through the same thing. He's about two and a half and I noticed a tumor growing on him a few months ago. He's too old to operate on but sometimes I do wish I had taken the risk to put him through surgery, but ultimately I don't regret it. Since then it's gotten really big, but he can still run around and bruxes and cuddles and gets excited about treats, though he doesn't get as excited about his normal rat nuggets anymore. It's a tough situation to be in and I doubt he'll make it through the next month or so. Just trying to cherish him while he's here. I wish rats didn't have such a damn short lifespan.
@@corvarts9311 I feel your struggle. After 2 years old its such a risk for surgery of any kind. My girl is still okay but like yours, she is definitely almost ready to pass
I cried because my heart-rat Sven was the first of my boys to go... he passed as I held him in my arms 😭
I still think of him from time to time (obviously my current ladies are on my mind always).
Ppl who make nasty comments, obviously are the ones who don't love pets above, their own wants..
Last wk my 1 yr ratty had surgery on a large mammory tumour. I was very stressed that I'd loose her. If the vet hadn't of operated I'd of eventually had to pts. I also lost my rescue pygmy hedgehog to liver failure this wk.
So I understand its not easy to loose a pet.
So sorry for your loss emi. 🌈🐁♥️🐭🌈♥️
My best dog friend passed on Tuesday whilst i was on holiday in mexico and it was hard not being in the uk when he went. But animals arent just pets they are family but you cant keep them in pain 😢
my condolences 🕊️🙏🏼
I’m going through this with my favourite mouse right now , I think it’s time , she’s my absolute baby though but she’s not doing well, I’ll miss you Chips ❤
Sorry you got those nasty comments Emmy. It’s so clear to me how well you take care of your mice and rats, you have given me the knowledge to always strive towards offering my own mice a better quality of life, and I’ve learned so much from you. ❤
I've had to euthenise two of my girls this week due to likely neurological events that left the one disorientated, wobbly, walking in circles and partially paralysed and the other mostly paralysed. Both were incredibly sudden but they were both around two year old. The second rat didn't even need the euthanasia to pass and passed away with just analgesic.
It's been really hard and a little traumatizing but your video has helped put me a little more at peace for making these hard decisions for their quality of life. Thank you.
Thank you for this. In my country - people suggest letting rats with paralyzed back legs still live (with according accomodations), but to me it feels cruel - especially for a rat that never liked being looked at - let alone handled. I can't imagine he would enjoy being cleaned by me... I am considering letting him go and expecting nasty comments. Gonna give him best weeks of his live tho... ❤
Thats so rude of them to say things like that? You would already be super sad and down from your rat dying and then on top, people have the urge to say things like that? It's actually the best thing to do, and they would be suffering way way more if they were kept alive. Keeping them alive is the selfish thing to do?
I love you and thanks for making all of your videos ur amazing
This is a very important topic! Many people refuse to even acknowledge the end of life stages of their pets. Even more so with small pets that have shorter lifespans. Thanks. ❤
Thank you for this, I recently lost one of my mice, it was a very difficult experience to see her in so much pain and has been looming over me. I'm glad she is now comfortable and in a better place, and i'm glad to know it was the right thing to do.
Thanks for this video! I wish I heard all this when I was going through loosing my first rat who was my heart rat. He had ZGT, was absolutely nasty, opened up and half his head was exposed with visible tissues that kept getting inflamed. I kept trying on everything I could that was suggested by the vet. At this stage he couldn’t really do his usual things, he only had liquid supplement food etc. I kept him hanging when the kindest thing was to PTS. His last week I spent 24/7 sitting next to him making sure he doesn’t cause bleeding by scratching the tumor, giving him water and food. There was no quality in his life and I regret not PTS him earlier. Definitely best to do a day earlier than later, when my other rat got same ZGT I made the decision quickly and he didn’t suffer ❤️
Currently 2 of my 3 rats have a tumour.. one has a much bigger one. I haven't noticed discolouration or tightening yet but thank you so much for this video cause this really helps me right now.
My pair died within the same month. Buffy died while I was out, and Willow was fighting for the longest time. I got meds for her from the vet and she seemed better for a little bit, but a week later I realized she wouldn't get better and had to put her down. The first time I have ever had to do that 😢
Hi Emily. Greetings from California. You are a kind person and you've given so many animals a good life. Your knowledge and compassion have shown the viewers how to take care of mice in a more humane environment. Thank you for all that you do.❤
I'm so sorry you've had mean comments. It really is better a day too early than a day too late. Thank you for posting the chart. I actually had to euthanize my cat last month, she got sick very suddenly and the chart you did actually really helped me today to see that we made the right choice. 🥺
Thank you for putting yourself out there and make this video , this could not have been a easy one for you
I watched your videos when making research for my first babies who are now two years old , and have 3 baby brothers that we are going to introduce soon , me and my partner even have your rat mom and dad keychains and a polaroid signed by you of one of your boys
This video was hard to watch , as one of the old boys passed away a little over a month under my care doing one of his treatments , it was very sudden , and i have lived in a lot of guilt thinking i could have been selfish and neglectful and not seen the signs
I did the calculator , and it brought me a lot of closure to have seen that he was closer to the healthy rat score than not , and that he needed to go in that time , but that we gave him the best life we could x
That calculator will be a great tool to use in future for our living ones , i appreciate you sharing it with us , truly x
Thank you so much! I have a rat with a cancerous tumor and she’s not doing to good. This helps me a lot! I will be putting her down on the 15th. 😢 I hope all is well for you and your family!❤
Yesterday, got home from work at 6pm and heard constant squeaking/sneezing. I identified the girly, separated her, and made a Vet appointment for today. Before people get rodents, they should make sure there is a Vet that will see them because not every Vet will. I love my mouse Vet because he’s the best small animal Vet imo. I now have Baytril and Rheumocam antibiotics to give her a tiny dot or twice a day.
Emi is a very comforting presence when it comes to grieving rats from your mischief. If you continuously keep rats you know how hard it is but atleast we have these videos to watch to prepare and that's so comforting in an unfortunate circumstance
As someone who just had one of their ratties babies cross the rainbow, this was hard to watch.. but this is so important. Thank you.
The thing a lot of people forget when they throw out the “You wouldn’t just put a human in that condition to sleep!” is that humans are capable of UNDERSTANDING their condition/s… whereas a pet is not. A human can learn to use a wheelchair or cane to compensate for loss of mobility, as an example. You can explain to a person how they will need to alter their lifestyle due to injury or illness. It’s still heartbreaking and difficult for a person to come to terms with declining health, but at least they can understand what is happening and work with care providers to maintain as much quality of life as is possible.
An animal doesn’t understand why their body isn’t working like it used to; they will keep trying to engage in normal behaviors and routines, and experience pain and frustration. They won’t understand why they’re constantly having to make trips to the vet, to be poked and prodded at… or why icky-tasting medicine keeps getting forced down their throat. A human forced into a sedentary lifestyle at least has books to read, videos to watch, conversations to engage in… but a pet does not. The pet still needs mental and physical stimulation, but now has no way of getting it. It’s a horrible thing to see happen to any living thing, let alone a beloved pet. I understand why emotions run so high with regard to the euthanasia of pets, but it is CRITICAL here to understand how a suffering animal’s situation differs from a human’s. 😢
Sad as this video is it will be incredibly comforting to a lot of people who had to make this decision may secretly be feeling a lot of guilt because of it.
😢 we show we love them by saying goodbye when we notice they are in pain 😢
Thank you so much for this video❤ I recently had to put down one of my lady mice due to a rectal prolapse 😢
What an incredibly helpful video, thanks for making it.
After 5 years, I started getting rats again. I adopted 2 old rats from one of my friends (breakup situation - she couldn't take them and she didn't trust her ex partner with them), and we had to put one of them to sleep this past June... it was the hardest thing, but watching him suffer was even harder... His brother is still doing well, and will be 4 in October. We did adopt 2 younger males prior to having to put our old Albert to sleep, so his brother is not alone :)
thank you for this, i was really struggling with having to put down my rat but it was the right decision that i came to with the vet. It would have been cruel to keep my baby alive, i didn't want him to suffer💔
I've had only female fancy mice and they're notorious for developing mammary tumors. I've lost almost half of my female mice to tumors, ranging from 6 months to 3 years. The breeders are super grateful to receive feedback on which mice develop tumors as if there's a larger than usual number of siblings from a brood, they'll cease breeding that pair in order to try and breed healthier mice.
Unfortunately, mice in general are very prone to both cancer and respitory diseases.
It is a very, very difficult decision to determine when it's time to let them go. For me, it's generally been when they start becoming lethargic, when they have trouble moving because of the tumor, their personal hygiene starts deteriorating (flaky, oily fur), their eyes dull over or when the tumor is placed in a location where it's going to interfere with their base biological functions (eyesight, hearing, eating, pooping, peeing etc).
The last mouse I had to let sleep had her tumor in the left groin and it grew large enough that it was risking to block either her large intestine or the anus itself. I let her sleep before it came to the point where she got constipated.
It's never easy putting a hard limit or time on when it's time to let them sleep. It's very individual depending on pain, health in general, where a tumor is etc.
This was a very helpful video and your information largely lines up with my own experience and opinion.
My beautiful 3 year old boy Snowy developed a neurological disorder and wasn't functioning very well. Our wonderful vet put him on what she called a 'comfort' med and it really helped him. He lived for another couple of months and was quite happy. Funny thing- the night before he passed, during out-time, he spent an hour searching the house because a wild mouse had gotten in. I think it was probably a female mouse and Snowy was searching for her to be his girlfriend!!!!
I'm sure your comments on this video will all be sad stories and I'm sorry if I'm adding to the mental strain of that 😅 but I actually had the best euthanasia experience recently with my older rabbit Wayne. Other euthanasia has been through trauma or untreatable illness when their lifespan wasn't finished and it was awful and unfair for them. He'd slowly gotten more and more mobility issues, kidney issues, cataracts, an abscess on his back etc just a lot at once but most age related that would only get worse, never better. I had never been allowed to stay with my rabbits before, they always took them into the back and then came out with them on a blanket already passed and I prepared myself for the same. She actually got him comfortable on the table in a blanket as I stroked his head and he fell asleep, then she administered the medication and left, and he then stayed asleep and stopped breathing. It was gentle and unexpected for him, especially since he was never that bothered about vet trips! I was allowed to sit in the consultation room on my own and have time to get my emotion out and say goodbye. Nice to sit with him and not one day walk in to find him gone at home, or for it to be traumatic and rushed. Think that's also one of the only times I've not over thought it and was very confident in my decision that it was the best possible scenario. Still got the "I can't believe you killed him because he can't see very well" comments 😂 suppose the cataract was the only visible thing I couldn't escape sharing but what can you do 🫣
This video helped me a lot. I'm feeling really bad I had to put 3 of my rats to sleep. We still don't know what exactly happened to Opos, there was no exotic vet around us at that moment who could help her, she was in so much pain. Tiny was almost 2 years old when we found she has tumor, at the same time I spent all money for emergency surgery for Coco after a fight with other rat, her eye had to be removed. We let Tiny go 4 months later when her skin turn dark, the same day it started bleeding. Three days ago we said goodbye to Eye, she suddenly started side-sucking, stopped eating, she was fighting for every breath, vet said it's probably tumor that press on her lungs or can cause internal bleeding. "Her chances to recover are very very low" so how could I let her suffer... Sometimes there is no other way then let them go peacefully...
One day I came across a post online from someone that claimed they were a veterinarian but what they posted really changed my outlook a bit by seeing it from a totally different perspective. Anyway, they basically said that, in the wild when they are weak that is when they end up succumbing to death or being another animal’s meal and their suffering is ended, but in captivity with treatment today we are able to keep animals hanging on to their lives at great lengths and sometimes thereby extending their suffering. Anyway, that did change my outlook on euthanasia quite a bit - but idk if I would ever be able to make that call myself. Thought I’d share if it helps anyone. ❤
I'll never forget reading euthanasia is the final gift you can give them. Sometimes you need to make these difficult decisions for them 💔
My mice also just passed away :( so sad. Wishing you the best
Thank you Emily! This will help me a lot.😊🐀❤👍
my rat just died of the same thing as pebble. it was so hard to watch him suffer, but at the end the best was for sure to let him rest
Thanks so much for sharing your experience with Humbug. I have a 2 and a half year old boy named Lavender with a tumor in about the same spot, and it's gotten really big over the past 3 months. I chose not to operate for the same reasons. The skin is starting to get tighter in that area so I'm probably going to have to start thinking about euthanasia in the next few weeks. :'( I appreciate you sharing your experience and perspective. It just sucks because he still has so much life in him, I just don't want him to die painfully/traumatically.
Im sorry to hear about the hurtful comments, i think its plain for all to see you've always had your pets welfare paramount.
On a lighter note, the mouse enclosure behind you looks a fascinating set-up right now. Please could you spend just a couple of minutes showing us around?
🙂
I showed it in a video about 3 weeks ago called ‘how to setup a naturalistic enclosure’ 😊
@@Emiology Wow found it, thanks!
My hamster was put down recently due to cancer, and I hate how ppl think it’s “murdering” to put an animal down so they are free from pain. If we didn’t put incredibly ill animals down, then the thing they are suffering from will build worse and lead to a worser death. I’m so sorry abt these nasty comments, they really need to educate themselves
Agreed! These types seem to put their wants above their pet(s) needs which is so selfish.
Keep it up love ur vids
Aug. 2nd, I had to say goodbye to my heart rat. Had a tumor that had grown from a ping pong ball size to almost a baseball size in just over a month. Did the removal surgery, after surgery she weighed just over 200g and the tumor weighed over 400g!!!! She then passed about an hour after we got home 😢. I had her cremated! Some thought I was insane for spending $500 on a rat - but they just don't understand! Others were very understanding and shocked/saddened when I told them.
I've been struggling with this, my old lady has been declining and she's still eating and accepting cuddles but she's withering away 😢 I never want to make the call TOO soon, but I don't want them to suffer either, and that is such a hard decision
People have to understand that in nature, prey animals like rats wouldn't hang around suffering, because as soon as they became even a little sick, and unable to move as quickly as normal, they would be killed by an owl, hawk, fox, cat, dog, snake or any other number of predators. Nature is kinder in that way, because a quick death by predator is preferable to a week or longer of dying by some tumor squashing your internal organs or respiratory disorder making it difficult to breathe
Yes exactly! They'll hide it and hide it from predators for so long just to try and survive until they can't any longer
Against animals getting put to sleep and I can understand some animals should be put to sleep when they're really suffering it's horrible to see so I recommend the vet put it to sleep but I couldn't handle it one bit cuz I would cry my eyes I don't judge other people for what they do is there a decision and I think in your way is the right decision you should always believe in your way and don't let other people put you down for what you believe in and don't let those comments hurt your feelings because you always have to think positive and not the negative you have a big heart and you should not let people stomp all over it I had a dog named Lacey she was a wonderful dog she stopped walking so I had to put her down because of her suffering and I don't want that for any kind of dog or any animal suffer that much pain so good for you to do the sorry I over a message
A few months ago I had a similar issue with my rat ace she was only 8 months but unfortunately she kept spending a lot of times in corner, not eating and kept falling over every time she was grooming herself and trying to cling onto the nearest object. When i went to the vet they checked for diabetes and it wasn’t that. So they asked their refferal pratice and they assumed it was an infection in her private part. So the vet either told me to go with the surgery or to consider putting her down. I tried the surgery which she survived but when she was recovering the medication wasn’t working and all her symptoms got a lot worse and more frequent and i couldn’t watch her suffer anymore so I choose to put her to sleep.
hah to have my old hammy girl put to sleep she had a tumour, so so she was sweet and would come to me when i call her
How do you deal with the loss of a rat? I have two and I’m really worried for the day that one of them passes and the other is alone… do you have any advice on how to help other rats greave and what the next steps are
saying goodbye is super hard. When i lost my heart rat i stopped having rats. He turned 3½ and we thought he had an abcess on his foot. it wouldn't go away. Turned out to be bonecancer T_T was the ONLY thing wrong with him. he was old, yes. but he was healthy otherwise. was a tough dayt, but the pain my little baby must have been in T_T
Just for help, I’m getting mice. However I’ve been looking for months every day on selling sites and haven’t seen any near me. Also no breeders or rescues. I already spent nearly all my money on mouse items and so my only option at this point is a pet store. If we had to go with pet store we were thinking we could ask them to separate some females for us so we don’t get a pregnant mouse. Do you think that will work or should we just somehow sell the stuff I bought and not get the mice? None of my friends or people I know have owned/owns mice either. We have a certain pet store we go to so we know some of the workers there btw
Just a question
Would you happen to know any good rat cafes under £100?
I plan to get 2 rats but can't find a good cage
get one made then you can make it big
Often you can find good big cages on places like Facebook market place so you don’t end up paying as much. The pet planet cage is quite common on there!
You’ve got the savic Zeno and coco rat cages for a few rats and they’re under £100
@@Emiology Oh that’s so nice of you to check out cages for your subscribers
I am shocked that these ridiculous people are against euthanasia it isn’t something pet owners want to do but it is because we love our pets that we do it! Nobody should ignore their pets behaviours, not wanting to eat, unable to stand etc etc, now that is cruel, these people are the ignorant, selfish and lack of intelligence! My grandmother died of pancreatic cancer and the pain was horrific, to watch her dying in pain was devastating if I was able to choose I would want the doctors to give her something to end her life without the pain she suffering. My pets are my family i love them with every bone in my body which means I would hate to see them suffer, my choice is euthanasia every time I am responsible for these gorgeous animals they deserve to be at peace!
Every time I have had to put an animal to sleep the vet checks them they would never put a healthy pet asleep! I am so sorry for these vile ignorant people giving you a hard time just know you other subs love your channel and we love you, your videos are always great so please lots more videos!
p.s. if you don’t understand my message I do apologise I have had quite a large does of morphine, so I am sorry! 💕💕💕🐭🐭🐭🐀🐀🐀
hello! im hoping that you could possibly pls help me. my rat is in the early stages of what i think is a respiratory infection. hes busy losing some weight. do you know of any food or fruit i could feed him to boost his immune system? i dont have the finances to afford a vet appointment or meds now. thanks!
I’d focus more on thinking if there’s anything in his environment that could have caused a respiratory infection (dust, spraying deodorant around him etc) just to make sure. Unfortunately there’s no at home remedies or things you can feed him that will cure him if what he needs is a vet visit with antibiotics if it doesn’t go away.
You can get supplements to add to their water called Dr squiggles that generally provide them with vitamins and minerals
i feel that people that are living those hatefull comments never really care for their pets. Never had to really take care for dying animal. I lost my whole heard in just two months. Due to Lymphoma. Two times I was to late with decision about euthanasia.
It's just sad, that people don't understand that animals don't care for they stupid ideologies. When they suffer there is just pain, and allowing for pain, suffering and low quality of life means not doing your job as caretaker.
My vet already knows that when im calling, that a mouse really has to go, i usely get an half an hour right away, he makes it quick en stressles.
My local vet is really good for this they can be as busy as possible and still manage to get me in within a few hours for this 🥹
@@Emiology nice to know where to go when you can no longer see them suffer anymore 😊
God im sorry people are such dicks
I think you did a really hard thing and its gross they would want his suffering to be prolonged. I think all the small animals in your care are in a loving home ❤ you always put their needs first
Such an important topic! I see too many animals on forums and tiktoks, that should been put down awhile back.. Euthanizing is also apart of good animal welfare
Those ppl judging you don’t know you.
🤍
I usually only take special needs animals so I often get the opposite comments, that they should have been euthanised ages ago etc 🙄 unfortunately everyone thinks they know better than the people caring for them. Ive only had a few animals euthanised, a hamster who injured her spine and became paralysed, a guinea pig with bladder cancer and an african fat tailed gecko with a bowel tumour, she was let go in the middle of surgery.
I find my guinea pigs go from fine to gone very quickly, theyre supported with syringe feeding, whatever medications they need to be kept comfortable, for as long as theyre still enjoying life. Several times ive been at the vet and theyve said they still have excellent quality of life and theyre happy to continue treatment etc then several hours later theyve passed away very gently (I basically live at the vet at this point 😅).
People who make negative comments have no idea what caring for a sick animal really entails, if youre not going to dedicate a serious amount of time and money keeping them comfortable, keeping them alive is often just cruel.
As someone who keeps euthanasia as a very last resort, I remember watching your Crumble video and thinking "aw he still looks quite happy" but had the common sense to realise of course youre not going to be including the bad days, hours etc in those clips.
Anyway, sorry you had to make this video, some people are so arrogant in their opinion. Palliative care, caring for elderly or special needs pets and euthanasia is not a one size fits all experience.
I'm not against people euthanising their pets, but I prefer to let my rodents die naturally, at the end they generally pass away within 1-2 weeks of becoming very unwell. I nursed my gerbil whilst she was nearing passing, I fed and watered her, and was with her when she took her final breath, I saw her spirit leave her body. It was emotionally a very draining experience, but I felt really honoured to look after her and to be by her side during that time. After she passed I believe I got a spiritual message from her saying she was glad I was next to her, and that now she had let this life go and was on with her new life ❤️
In an ideal world I think we’d all prefer for them to pass naturally! But it doesn’t always work that way and would often mean starving / dehydrating for a few days at the end and that’s really uncomfortable 😩
@@Emiology Thankfully she would take food and drink from me until the last day, but yes i can understand, maybe if it had gone on for a longer amount of time I may have considered taking her to be put to sleep ,but thankfully it didn't come to that, and she was next to my bed with me the whole time ❤️. Just like to add I'm not judgemental against people who do euthanise their pets ❤️
I have to disagree. You should put suffering in a video and show people. Not eveybody knows what pain looks like in a rodent and this would be helpful. You don't have to watch the video again if you don't want to. My pet rat that I rescued is on a few meds. According to my vet he's not suffering so I let him be. However I know I'll soon have to put him to sleep.
People are over sensitive, I’ve shown ‘suffering’ to show the reality of where their animals come from when buying from a pet store and people are angry at me for showing it, not angry as the source because it’s too upsetting for them to see. A memorial video is supposed to be a nice video, I show the reality of things in vlogs all the time.
I understand where you are coming from. I think that showing what pain looks like in a rat would be helpful. Actually, maybe not show, but explain. Some people, like me, don't know enough. I know about the squinting eyes, but that's about it.