The problem with big ass enters on keyboards is usually the small backspace that goes with it, but this keyboard doesn't have a small backspace, so it must be pretty awesome.
Yeah, some people call it a "Focus" layout because Focus did this layout a lot. Sometimes instead of splitting the right shift they would just stick the \ key in the blank spots where the Windows keys would normally go between alt and ctrl.
Really fascinating review. You definitely make keyboards come to life, and since I've been watching I've felt the urge to look under the keycaps of different boards just to see some examples of what you have been demonstrating. Thanks for another great video!
Truly amazing to think they developed technology like this so long ago..you were indeed not joking about the complexity of the switch! Yet another unique switch and board making for an entertaining video. Cheers!
Hall effects, megnatic valves, leaf springs, topres, buckling springs, photo optics... Is there any chance this thrift shop you go to next to the Pentagon or some CIA warehouse?
I have a zenith TV from october of 1982 and it still works PERFECTLY despite going through a lot of abuse. Just goes to show you the quality of zenith products
I went to an abandoned warehouse and picked up a Prime PST-100 keyboard (there are at least fifty lying around there) as well as the terminal itself. After failing on trying to convert it to a PS2 keyboard, I removed all the switches. I could not for the life of me figure out how to salvage the switches and create my own keyboard out of them because I had no idea how to hook them up. They have four pins on the bottom and each pair of two seemed to be connected. I FINALLY stumbled upon this video and realized what I was dealing with. It looks like I won't be building my own magnetic field keyboard anytime soon, or at least not without a ton of research
Oh wow, you found fifty magnetic valve keyboards? That's pretty amazing! By the way, these don't work in the same way electromechanical keyboards work, so they might not be quite as easy to convert as you think, but good luck nonetheless! :)
For sorting. Easier to hand-sort documents by month if the month is written first. In the computer age, YYYY-MM-DD would be most logical, which also puts month before day. I understand that is the default in most of Asia, so they're ahead of both of us there.
I have those switches with texas instrument low profile keyboard. It's simple and elegant design imo. The keyfeel is somewhat like snappy Topre. I kind of like that, too.
Hey this video is great! Very informative. I picked up a keyboard from a thrift shop a few days ago (cortron) with these same switches with red housing and I didnt know anything about it or if it was even mechanical. Post on reddit told me they were ITW switches but never got further than that... I understand why these are so complex now! Do you think the boards with these switches are worth anything? Because mine is currently sitting in a draw because i dont have an rj45 adapter and don't know much about all that in general. I know this is an old video but keep it up!!
This particular model is very rare as it's directly usable, being AT/XT. It's exceptionally rare that a magnetic keyboard is so directly usable. Yours being RJ45 doesn't surprise me. You can try to convert it, but it's not that easy as I doubt it's a standard protocol. Still, people have done crazier things :) . As to how much it's worth I really don't know. After I bought this one, someone got into contact with the seller and found he had two more; he bought those and re-sold them for $200 each if that helps.
+Jon Doe (Mr White Foxy) I don't know really, several of them have no real reference price xD . As of right now I have about 75 different models though.
+Jon Doe (Mr White Foxy) It's been part luck and part assertiveness. I have no money for all this though; every penny I spent I raised selling keyboards and parts, so it hasn't cost me anything all things considered. Right now I'm trying to raise money for something special I'm calling Project L, though :) .
+Harjoat Yes, I sell sets of thick POM G81 keycaps, see my DT or GH threads on it: geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76265.msg2030310#msg2030310 deskthority.net/f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f58/cherry-doubleshot-abs-caps-infilled-pom-caps-white-on-black-t11871.html?hilit=cherry
wow lucky i have been looking all over for one i just found out my local savers recycles all ps2 keyboard but i asked if they could keep snd they said yes so yeah wish me luck
Okay, just to add fuel to the pronunciation fire: Zenith themselves pronounced the company name ZEE-nith in their American television marketing back in the day. it's not the English word, it's a brand name. You do that and I promise to pronounce that notable Dutch Post-Impressionist painter's name Vincent Van Gockccccchhhh.
+MechaniKey The magnetic ones were really only for high-end systems. It's much too expensive to make these switches and boards on a mass scale. In the 80s, computers cost a small fortune, so it was OK, but as soon as they got mainstream, the magnets went. That said, these switches apparently remained popular with the newspaper industry for a very long time; Devlin, who bought the tooling from Cortron (who got it from ITW), stopped making these as late as 2005.
+Chyrosran22 Do you know of any high-end switches that used magnets instead of the spring or rubber element? Two north poles facing each other say; one on the bottom of the slider, and one at the base of the switch case. Combined with either this sensing circuit, or a side mounted Hall effect sensor, would seem to make for a smooth and reliable switch.
+dalriada842 It would be excessively hard to engineer something like that, especially because you'd need really strong magnets to provide adequate repulsion to provide a significant return force, especially when the magnets aren't right next to each other, because the force drops off over r cubed, so the key travel would in all likelihood be limited to chiclet-style depth. The interference all those strong magnets would cause also doesn't sound like something that many electronics would take well to. Besides, springs and rubber sleeves can be really smooth, they add almost negligible friction to a design.
Chyrosran22 I may pull out my copy of University Physics, to brush up on the theory of magnetism. Some of the magnets you can buy are freakishly strong. You wouldn't want to catch a finger between them! A few millimetres gap doesn't sound like an excessive distance to operate over. You could even use the stronger force of attraction, with the fixed magnet in the top of the switch, i.e. annular design. What you don't want in an electronic circuit is a lot of electro-magnetic interference. A slowly changing magnetic field isn't really a big problem. I can see it not being done because it's expensive, but not because it's too difficult to do.
I'm addicted to your channel, even when you get so technical that my brain shuts down. But here's my theory as to why you're so lukewarm about RGB and backlighting: You're too young to remember a time when the only choice we had in keyboards were these colorless, charmless tanks. I'm 50 so I remember that era when keyboards were a total afterthought - they only existed to input data into what really mattered - a powerful CPU. And because of that, my feeling is "Why would anyone NOT want a backlit keyboard - they're so whimsical and fun compared to the depressing yellow/brown/white monstrosities that we were forced to used because we had no other choice. Now we do and younger people should be thankful for that. Remember, we lived in a world with no keyboard choices. God bless the 21st century! Lighten up!
I thought you had just sold this about a week ago when I saw it on Ebay - it even had the rework sticker with the same date. The S/N is different though. I was wondering why you would want to sell such a rare piece, but now I know better :P
I told someone in the community who the seller was, they contacted him and it turned out he had two more just like this, but because I left him with it for so long he hadn't bothered posting them on eBay. The guy quickly bought them.
I might have bought one of those - It looks like two were sold within a week of each other. I picked up S/N 3000535 this past weekend from a different seller named Adoggylover or something (Under Harshmallow on DT and GH - new to the forums but have been lurking for a while before that lol). I can't wait to try it.
Sir, I purchased a Vintage "ACROS" Mechanical Black Switch Model # 6311-K Keyboard. It is a great keyboard, good key feel, nice Clicky sound. I rate it as good as a Model M. Have you ever seen this Keyboard? If you want a photo, advise please. Edwin Thoma, USN Ret. (1961~1993).
Chyrosran, You said "yup, it was my forst review and I reduxed it later!". Is the video still available? My Acros is a PS/2 but has no "Windows" key. It was manufactured in Malaysia 4/13/1992. What do you mean by the word "reduxed"? Do you mean "Reduced" (edited)? I also have several old Mechanical Keyboards. One I have listed on Ebay is the NEC KB-6923 Mechanical [white?] keyboard. You ever have one of these & your thoughts. I feel it is a nice keyboard. Thanks, enjoy your Video's. Edwin (76-yr old with a 32 yr-old Filipino wife, 6-yr old daughter, and 8-yr old son!).
+MechaniKey Me too. Focus used a layout like that a lot, where they stuck the extra key behind a split shift or where the winkeys would later go. Fantastic layout IMO.
Chyrosran22 My old Silitek board uses the Focus layout and I really like it a lot. The enter is so much easier to hit, and you would think that the enter key wouldn't matter too much, but it really does.
Go to thrift shops and recycling centers, you're bound to find something eventually. I found a super rare Alps board the other day buried under a mountain of rubber domes!
If you are going to review an American or "Yank" product. Then please pronounce the brand as it was meant to be be pronounced. Same goes for the letter Z. Kthanks.
The problem with big ass enters on keyboards is usually the small backspace that goes with it, but this keyboard doesn't have a small backspace, so it must be pretty awesome.
Yeah, some people call it a "Focus" layout because Focus did this layout a lot.
Sometimes instead of splitting the right shift they would just stick the \ key in the blank spots where the Windows keys would normally go between alt and ctrl.
You don't need a big backspace if you don't make so many mistakes :)
Really fascinating review. You definitely make keyboards come to life, and since I've been watching I've felt the urge to look under the keycaps of different boards just to see some examples of what you have been demonstrating. Thanks for another great video!
+Doug Brown Thanks very much! :D
Doug Brown if you are looking for a community of people interested in keyboards, check out the deskthority forums
Truly amazing to think they developed technology like this so long ago..you were indeed not joking about the complexity of the switch! Yet another unique switch and board making for an entertaining video.
Cheers!
+LiquidEvilGaming Thanks mate! :D
Hall effects, megnatic valves, leaf springs, topres, buckling springs, photo optics... Is there any chance this thrift shop you go to next to the Pentagon or some CIA warehouse?
They're located in a magical rainbow land.
Reveal the location of keyboard land or the beam spring gets dunked in hot oil my lord.
I demand this knowledge as well, or else I will put dust into the alps
@@chickenpower5732 "I will breathe on my Alps switches, this is a threat"
Boy, I like your videos ! And every weekend I just can't wait to see something cool again.
+ZanderLexx Thanks! Next week will be something you don't see every week either ;) .
I have a zenith TV from october of 1982 and it still works PERFECTLY despite going through a lot of abuse. Just goes to show you the quality of zenith products
I went to an abandoned warehouse and picked up a Prime PST-100 keyboard (there are at least fifty lying around there) as well as the terminal itself. After failing on trying to convert it to a PS2 keyboard, I removed all the switches. I could not for the life of me figure out how to salvage the switches and create my own keyboard out of them because I had no idea how to hook them up. They have four pins on the bottom and each pair of two seemed to be connected. I FINALLY stumbled upon this video and realized what I was dealing with. It looks like I won't be building my own magnetic field keyboard anytime soon, or at least not without a ton of research
Oh wow, you found fifty magnetic valve keyboards? That's pretty amazing! By the way, these don't work in the same way electromechanical keyboards work, so they might not be quite as easy to convert as you think, but good luck nonetheless! :)
The "5-1-92" is most likely American style M-D-Y, so that's mid-1992, not early 1992.
Goddammit xD . Why the month first, America?! :p
Chyrosran22 because we like it like that :p
America and measurement units don't get along...
For sorting. Easier to hand-sort documents by month if the month is written first.
In the computer age, YYYY-MM-DD would be most logical, which also puts month before day. I understand that is the default in most of Asia, so they're ahead of both of us there.
Month Day Year is how you would say it. "May first, nineteen ninety-two."
Awesome review again. Great explanation of how the switches work, must have taken ages to edit!
+Celso Soares Thanks! Yes, it very much did xD .
I have those switches with texas instrument low profile keyboard. It's simple and elegant design imo.
The keyfeel is somewhat like snappy Topre. I kind of like that, too.
This is one perfect keyboard! Bigass enter, big left shift. I want that one in black color.
His voice is so deep that the camera starts reverberating by the sheer amount of low frequencies.
These caps are pretty good！
really neat keep profile
i won't lie, i skipped the brain-hurt electrical diagram and skipped to the bit where the stuff goes clackkety-clak.
dayumm I love these kind of linear switches wich has a speaker or whatever build in :O so it makes them "clicky" :O
Looks like the keys on an AEK II with that chamfer edge.
I like my Heath equipment.
Definitely a cool board thx for sharing
This is so cool.
I prefer medium or small asses, personally... back to the keyboard: that uniform texture on the 4300 makes it look a lot cleaner and more modern.
Hey this video is great! Very informative. I picked up a keyboard from a thrift shop a few days ago (cortron) with these same switches with red housing and I didnt know anything about it or if it was even mechanical. Post on reddit told me they were ITW switches but never got further than that... I understand why these are so complex now! Do you think the boards with these switches are worth anything? Because mine is currently sitting in a draw because i dont have an rj45 adapter and don't know much about all that in general. I know this is an old video but keep it up!!
This particular model is very rare as it's directly usable, being AT/XT. It's exceptionally rare that a magnetic keyboard is so directly usable. Yours being RJ45 doesn't surprise me. You can try to convert it, but it's not that easy as I doubt it's a standard protocol. Still, people have done crazier things :) . As to how much it's worth I really don't know. After I bought this one, someone got into contact with the seller and found he had two more; he bought those and re-sold them for $200 each if that helps.
If you could give a number, how much is your epic keyboard collection worth if you ever tried to sell all of them on Ebay for a fair price?
+Jon Doe (Mr White Foxy) I don't know really, several of them have no real reference price xD . As of right now I have about 75 different models though.
+Chyrosran22 I bet you could buy a really nice used car or something if you ever decided to sell them. XD
+Jon Doe (Mr White Foxy) Maybe I could, but I couldn't buy all these keyboards for a used car xD .
+Chyrosran22 Yeah some of the keyboards you have are pretty rare and can't be found easily. I covet your awesome collection. XD
+Jon Doe (Mr White Foxy) It's been part luck and part assertiveness. I have no money for all this though; every penny I spent I raised selling keyboards and parts, so it hasn't cost me anything all things considered. Right now I'm trying to raise money for something special I'm calling Project L, though :) .
I've heard you mention in a couple videos that you sell keycaps, got a link to where you sell?
+Harjoat Yes, I sell sets of thick POM G81 keycaps, see my DT or GH threads on it: geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76265.msg2030310#msg2030310 deskthority.net/f-o-r-s-a-l-e-f58/cherry-doubleshot-abs-caps-infilled-pom-caps-white-on-black-t11871.html?hilit=cherry
You have all the kick ass keyboard i could imagine of. Now I wonder what keyboard are you using a daily driver?
+OverclockZoneTV I use whatever I review next week ;) . At work I use my Zenith ZKB-2R atm.
hello I'm looking for an old keyboard with much keys for 20$ any recomendations
+Sky's Computers and Tech Not sure what you mean, but $20 won't get you a lot xD .
+Chyrosran22 just got a a101w for 2 bucks from my locak thrift lol
wow lucky i have been looking all over for one i just found out my local savers recycles all ps2 keyboard but i asked if they could keep snd they said yes so yeah wish me luck
Okay, just to add fuel to the pronunciation fire: Zenith themselves pronounced the company name ZEE-nith in their American television marketing back in the day. it's not the English word, it's a brand name. You do that and I promise to pronounce that notable Dutch Post-Impressionist painter's name Vincent Van Gockccccchhhh.
i did expet it to feel like topre
same, moment he said rubber I thought topre
Vintage mechanical keyboard manufacturers really loved their magnets, didn't they?
+MechaniKey The magnetic ones were really only for high-end systems. It's much too expensive to make these switches and boards on a mass scale. In the 80s, computers cost a small fortune, so it was OK, but as soon as they got mainstream, the magnets went. That said, these switches apparently remained popular with the newspaper industry for a very long time; Devlin, who bought the tooling from Cortron (who got it from ITW), stopped making these as late as 2005.
+Chyrosran22 Do you know of any high-end switches that used magnets instead of the spring or rubber element? Two north poles facing each other say; one on the bottom of the slider, and one at the base of the switch case. Combined with either this sensing circuit, or a side mounted Hall effect sensor, would seem to make for a smooth and reliable switch.
+dalriada842 It would be excessively hard to engineer something like that, especially because you'd need really strong magnets to provide adequate repulsion to provide a significant return force, especially when the magnets aren't right next to each other, because the force drops off over r cubed, so the key travel would in all likelihood be limited to chiclet-style depth. The interference all those strong magnets would cause also doesn't sound like something that many electronics would take well to. Besides, springs and rubber sleeves can be really smooth, they add almost negligible friction to a design.
Chyrosran22 I may pull out my copy of University Physics, to brush up on the theory of magnetism. Some of the magnets you can buy are freakishly strong. You wouldn't want to catch a finger between them! A few millimetres gap doesn't sound like an excessive distance to operate over. You could even use the stronger force of attraction, with the fixed magnet in the top of the switch, i.e. annular design. What you don't want in an electronic circuit is a lot of electro-magnetic interference. A slowly changing magnetic field isn't really a big problem. I can see it not being done because it's expensive, but not because it's too difficult to do.
Are going to do a teardown of this switch?
I might do it at some point, but I don't have any loose switches of this type, and I'm always reticent to start hacking away at NOS keyboards.
I'm addicted to your channel, even when you get so technical that my brain shuts down. But here's my theory as to why you're so lukewarm about RGB and backlighting: You're too young to remember a time when the only choice we had in keyboards were these colorless, charmless tanks. I'm 50 so I remember that era when keyboards were a total afterthought - they only existed to input data into what really mattered - a powerful CPU. And because of that, my feeling is "Why would anyone NOT want a backlit keyboard - they're so whimsical and fun compared to the depressing yellow/brown/white monstrosities that we were forced to used because we had no other choice. Now we do and younger people should be thankful for that. Remember, we lived in a world with no keyboard choices. God bless the 21st century! Lighten up!
I thought you had just sold this about a week ago when I saw it on Ebay - it even had the rework sticker with the same date. The S/N is different though. I was wondering why you would want to sell such a rare piece, but now I know better :P
I told someone in the community who the seller was, they contacted him and it turned out he had two more just like this, but because I left him with it for so long he hadn't bothered posting them on eBay. The guy quickly bought them.
I might have bought one of those - It looks like two were sold within a week of each other. I picked up S/N 3000535 this past weekend from a different seller named Adoggylover or something (Under Harshmallow on DT and GH - new to the forums but have been lurking for a while before that lol). I can't wait to try it.
already did found a ibm buckling spring grey label
Sir, I purchased a Vintage "ACROS" Mechanical Black Switch Model # 6311-K Keyboard. It is a great keyboard, good key feel, nice Clicky sound. I rate it as good as a Model M. Have you ever seen this Keyboard? If you want a photo, advise please. Edwin Thoma, USN Ret. (1961~1993).
Edwin Thoma yup, it was my first review and I reduxed it later!
Chyrosran, You said "yup, it was my forst review and I reduxed it later!". Is the video still available? My Acros is a PS/2 but has no "Windows" key. It was manufactured in Malaysia 4/13/1992. What do you mean by the word "reduxed"? Do you mean "Reduced" (edited)? I also have several old Mechanical Keyboards. One I have listed on Ebay is the NEC KB-6923 Mechanical [white?] keyboard. You ever have one of these & your thoughts. I feel it is a nice keyboard. Thanks, enjoy your Video's. Edwin (76-yr old with a 32 yr-old Filipino wife, 6-yr old daughter, and 8-yr old son!).
A Redux is a redo, here it is:th-cam.com/video/kvsPI_W-LMk/w-d-xo.html The NEC KB-6923 is not mechanical AFAIK, but a rubber dome board.
Big ass enters are a deal breaker for me. I don't like win keyless either. But a very peculiar switch.
+Lord Slapz Really? I actually like big-ass enters a lot... Just as long as the backspace isn't shrunk down.
+MechaniKey Me too. Focus used a layout like that a lot, where they stuck the extra key behind a split shift or where the winkeys would later go. Fantastic layout IMO.
Chyrosran22 My old Silitek board uses the Focus layout and I really like it a lot. The enter is so much easier to hit, and you would think that the enter key wouldn't matter too much, but it really does.
+MechaniKey It does. I make a lot of mistakes on the ANSI layout. ISO is fine with me too, though.
I just want I nice felling old keyboard for 20$
Go to thrift shops and recycling centers, you're bound to find something eventually. I found a super rare Alps board the other day buried under a mountain of rubber domes!
yeah well, model m is better.
If you are going to review an American or "Yank" product. Then please pronounce the brand as it was meant to be be pronounced. Same goes for the letter Z.
Kthanks.