I share your concerns my friend. VR it seems has always been an afterthought for Asobo... Hell they weren't even originally going to have it in MSFS2020 if memory serves. So many sim pilots now use VR, they really need to prioritize VR for their serious userbase. Like you, I hope Dynamic Foveated Rendering will be a day 1 feature but I guess we will just have to wait and see. I look forward to your final review once MSFS2024 is released... You will be the first place I turn to learn about it.
Hey Mark! Thanks buddy, I do feel VR is 'hanging on' rather than being the 'separate platform' Asobo promised. I remain hopeful we will get DFR at some point though, it would be such a wasted opportunity otherwise.
Yes but they also focus Xbox players... Not only hardcore simmers. I am happy with msfs 2020 so I will be happy with 2024. Quadview will be the Graal with my crystal when he'll be available.
I believe Asobo were specialist in VR technology before doing game development. They have stated a lot of the development team use VR on a day to day basis, so they are aware of it. I suspect once they have 2024 stable they will look to thing like VR and camera control. Remember MSFS202 was restricted by the legacy technology. This is a totally new build. Concentrating on VR is not a priority as it cater for a small percentage of the user base. Also the VR space is very fluid at the moment with several standards and platforms and new technology appearing every few months. . We really need a DX-VR standard to appear.
I have no intention of purchasing for at least 6 months after release for these reasons. 2020, was horrific on release. I am hoping for better VR performance with 24 but skeptical.
True I’m sticking with 2020. I don’t preorder anymore anything. It’s pointless and it’s a bit of a hype strategy to get people to test servers and so on. It’s also less to this whole fiasco of us buying unfinished products and then crying why devs have not finished them and so on.
I understand your concern about the performance. However, it will definitely be better. The problem is if the jump in details is higher than the jump in performance. In that case, we must compare it between similar visuals and it have to be better.
Optimistically being realistic on observations or expectations does not make it sound incredibly negative. All of your concerns are legit. 😎👍👍I hope Dynamic Foveated Rendering will be a day 1 feature as well. It is why my DCS experience is twice that of MSFS 2020 in FPS.
I don’t worry. Why not, you might ask? Well, because I can’t do anything about it. I’ll just have to wait and see how the new sim will work. It might be good, it might be bad, or something in between. I love flying in VR, and hopefully the experience will still be good. If not, I just hope that Asobo will fix whatever problems they got. 🤞
I don't think data centres are being built fast enough to cope with our massive appetite for big data transfer, so I think your fears are valid about the cloud computing. Even the phone signal here in the UK is getting worse due to huge demand.
The data centers that are being built won't be sustainable either. I am in Arizona and they are building data centers all over the Phoenix area. Those data centers are hungry for electricity and water while the Southwest U.S. is dealing with a manufactured drought and government is working hard to make everything dependent on the electric grid rather than oil. I am not sure if the servers for FS2024 will be in the data centers in Arizona, but if they are, I would expect outages from time to time.
@@Disobedient_One I was an electrical supervisor on a 33KV substation in the UK. We are having to wait possibly up to 2 years for a HV connection onto the national grid.
@@Disobedient_One It's not the fiber optics being used causing any problems. They have not come close to reaching the limitation of light transmission on single mode fiber. It's the electronics used for the end equipment that can't keep up with processing the data needed.
I hope the OpenXR toolkit will work in 2024, it gives so many options for tweaking I’d be really sad to lose it. That being said, I’m planning to have both sims installed if I can so it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
It will be very exciting to see what we get, but I have been thinking that I probably will be using the previous version for some time. Unless there are no major issues at launch, which I highly doubt. Fingers crossed that it will be smooth sailing. Or should I say flying. Have a nice weekend 🙂 Love from Norway ♥♥♥♥♥
Thanks for the review I have been searching for since the MASSIVE PR exercise from Microsoft/Asobo began. Your approach, which echoes insightful and credible journalism (in short these days of influencers and social media) has distilled my decision about rushing off and getting 2024. I am reminded that ideally serious simmers should aim to have all the major sims (DCS, XP11/12 and MSFS) in our collection. This allows us to use each for its strengths and not rely on variable servers only. Having been flying and simming for over 40 years I know what works for me and currently it is the amazingly realistic flight dynamics of X-Plane and, on the other hand, the ability to visually explore the world in MSFS2020. I will certainly buy 2024, just not yet....still need many hours on learning the F18 hornet radar in DCS, perfecting my R44 training in X-Plane 11 and completing my scenic tour of the Greek Islands in MSFS2020. Thanks again for your great channel.
Steve I've been concerned about this from day 1 and i think all the hype about 2024 is for 2D users and not vr. that's why I told you in a comment that I'm going to wait for your honest review before I decide to purchase MSF' 2024 especially for vr because that's all I use. and i know i can depend on your review for my decision.
I'm still convinced the concerne over bandwidth is entirely overblown. Not an issue. Granted, the folks running their Quest 3 video stream over the same WiFi connection they use to connect to the internet could have issues. I just can't empathize with that problem, as Meta choosing a wireless solution that conpjetely saturates people's WiFi, severing them from any real internet usage during VR, was always a highly flawed approach to going wireless.
You can if you want download aircraft, world updates etc to your storage. You’ll have that option. The rolling cache will play a more important role. VR performance will be much the same in my opinion. I would wait for the official release then set the cats running if needed. 😂
Hey Mark, yes I mentioned this in my video, I'm really glad Asobo will provide this as an option, especially rolling cache. But I am genuinely concerned with the heavy reliance on even more cloud based services. Take care mate.
Marketplace Scenery Developer here. Take that as what you may. All i'll say is i'm not expecting any improved VR performance on release. If we're lucky, at release it may be better. But for now it's rough . But these are alphas we'll have to wait until release to really see how it is.
It has to be better. 2d is unbelievably better with the core usage improvements. Also with new windows 11 improvements directstorage 2 . The GPU taking the information directly, lightening the load on the CPU even more. I can't possibly seeing it being worse, since me my case I have no complaints with vr performance in 2020
@@casstephens3124 True but at the same time they're packing it with newer features and higher resolution models and assets, which eat up the same added performance that those optimizations bring. So it's just a wait and see.
@slhsimdesigns exactly. And all those new features are still there in 2d and performance was better with nary a stutter. So I'll be cautiously optimistic
This is why I'm glad it's coming out on Game Pass. Will try it there first before considering whether or not to buy it. I have lots of issues with DX12 in 2020 - it doesn't work at all in VR - so if that is the same in 2024 then it would be a waste of money.
Well, you were right. The boffins at Asobo did ZERO testing in VR. A) The mouse cursor is laggy af in VR. B) The career mode continually asks for complicated keyboard inputs when it could have had you mouse over the instruction to click and complete. Although - see A. C) MSFS announces Pimax as VR partner, but you cannot map any functions to your Pimax controllers (i want to walk around in VR, not using m/keyboard inputs) showing just how empty and pointless that particular announcement was. Oh you can map an Occulus touch controller. Yay! Can you even buy those anymore? D) Beware opening menus in VR, such as ATC interactions (pretty much required for career mode), because the sim will decide not to let you close or move them. Mission restart required because they all open directly in your line of sight. Shame they are lazy with the implementation because it is looking incredible, and giving pretty good VR performance.
Jorg Neumann & Asobos "support" of VR has been extremely lacklustre since the initial release, they've got the mentality that they've "done enough" and that's seemingly all they care about. Bugs from SU5 & SU7 that directly affect VR users are still unfixed, a major lack of features in 4 years since the VR Update and seemingly only Dynamic FPS added in MSFS24. I've long since learnt to temper my expectations when it comes to VR with this dev company, so therefore i won't be disappointed in another 4 years of ignorance from Jorg and his team. The very fact they merged the VR Team into the Core Dev team years ago says it all, they need to do better but i doubt they will.
They said back in one of the videos that VR is now being treated as it's own platform - ie they have PC, Xbox, Cloud and now VR. IF true that is potentially quite good news. Ultimately though the proof is always in the pudding and we shall see....
Whilst I understand your concerns over processing on the cloud, from a computational perspective, the cloud and the back links within an enterprise server environment will continue to outperform most people's home PCs with a limited/mid-range budget. The Tech Alpha was a cute little data-gathering exercise for the team on their systems, so they can provision suitable computing to address concerns. Keep up the great videos :)
Many thanks. Although the data being used from the cloud won't mean you can run it any better with a mid range systems. You are just downloading the data to be processed by your own system. You'll still need a decent rig.
I just have two things: Please fix the rendering bug in the left eye (Lights through clouds visible only in one eye) + I hope that openxr toolkit is working😊
I'm less concerned about a flyby camera than I am about being unable to switch back to the cockpit view after going into the drone camera - using a mapped button. The only way to switch out of drone mode in MSFS 2020 is using the default keyboard key. That's GOT to be fixed in 2024.
For me the big issue is one that MSFS2020, MSFS2024, and Asobo has yet to address. That is helicopters looking like winged airplanes to other online players. It is totally stupid for all this tech going into these sims, yet they are OK seeing winged planes hovering into landing and taking off. Why not simply assign some generic helicopter models and have those be rendered to the online players. FSX, X-PLane addressed this long ago.
Same concerns with me exactly Steve. I said it in our group but I'll not be a day one buyer - I haven't even pro-ordered, when I thought I would. Just gonna wait this one out for a bit and gather feedback before making the jump. As you said with the streaming, it's way too internet dependant - and eliminating that hard drive dependence is potentially going to lead to more performance issues, but lets see. I want to be excited for it, and I hope it delivers - but too many worries right now!
@@VRFlightSimGuy Well I look forward to what you have to say on it mate. You'll be one of those voices I'll be listening to to make my decision! I hope it's painless for you anyway, fingers crossed!
I thought I was the only pessimist about 2024 - I have always said about being at the mercy of the servers, especially if they are not improved from what we have at the moment- what about when you get the 'rush hour' when everyone finish work and go for a flight- thanks for voicing these concerns
I'm surprised to hear that you have poor performance with DX12 in 2020. I've actually found that it performs better in VR than DX11 on my computer. Maybe because I'm using a Radeon RX 6900XT?
Hi. Great video. Another thing to mention is that it might need some time until all the 3rd party apps and peripherals (yokes, motion etc) will work. I will install this on a new SD with fresh system so that I can jump back essiliy. Think this transition needs years.
I cant blame you for being negative about VR capabilities and the support from game developers. Most of my leaps and bounds in performance has been from the community with third party support and tools. I really really hope the VR support improves. I'd love a sim/game that comes out with VR considerations from day one :)
regarding flight model. idk if fsim users also tried dcs, i have around 2k hours of dcs and bought fsim2020 and the flight model felt so unrealistic, easy and not satisfying i just used it for the normal "look there is my house" for 2 hours then went back to dcs. i hope that has improved but it felt very casual compared to the very hard core dcs. What fsim really has going for it is beautiful and deailed maps where dcs is really lacking. wish we could have dcs in fsim maps :/
You were not negative without good reason. There has to be a balance to views . We haven't had a chance to see 2024 properly yet but based on the fact that 2020 had a bug list a mile long and many of them were never resolved in its lifetime, you are well within your rights to be more than a little worried. Fingers crossed eh?
Thanks for the video Steve! Waiting for real reviews before I buy. Very concerned about the internet connection issues since I live in a rural area with only 24Megs at best! Don't really want to buy Starlink for 3 times the monthly cost especially when stormy weather during the winter months with several feet of annual snow here will block the signal entirely! Might stick with 2020 for some time especially when I can get a 5090 on my new custom built system soon. My 7800X3D system does NOT have any bottleneck issues with 2020 and still have plenty of headroom plus with a 5090 soon would be quite happy in VR with a crystal light. (My 3080Ti prevents me from fully utilizing the Crystal Light's maximum resolution at the moment. I'm at 0.80 for acceptable frame timings. ) Happy simming!
Preaching to the choir here, but I don't understand why they don't pay more attention to VR. The experience is just incredible. Flatscreen just doesn't hold my interest, VR flight sim has changed my life. For sure the reliance on streaming and servers is a concern, as is hardware ability to keep up.
Microsoft 2020 took awhile to become the level it is now..yes I'm concerned, however tech moves forwards. Lucky we have a choice 2020 and 2024 .My opinion is 2024 will take time to become the simulator we want so let's stay positive. Thanks for another great content video.
I have always been using DX12 in MSFS 2020 VR and, although it was not great early on, I'd really like to understand what has been - or, more precisely, what negative issues are currently being experienced by others. Thanks for the video as always.
Cheers Michael, I tend to recommend, if you are using DLSS in VR, DX12 is the way to go, but for TAA mode (crisper visuals but more demand), I find DX11 gives you better performance.
A cautionary tale for current and prospective Meta Quest VR headset owners: I'm on day 25 of Meta holding my Quest headsets hostage. I've been using Oculus/Quest devices from the day they started making them (10 years ago?), and I have not been required to give my date of birth to Meta in all this time. But they recently demanded my DOB under threat of disabling my Quests, and they made good on that threat 25 days ago. Meta can metaphorically brick your headsets, any time they want, and for any reason they want, and you will have no defense against it. Conclusion: Think carefully before you BUY anything from Meta; The thing you BUY will not be yours.
Whats bad about just giving your date of birth? I get it’s rubbish that a company does not let you use your head set that you bought. I mean just put another date of birth. I always put my surname name as Noyb ( none of your business) they never catch on :😂
Great rant Steve, I fully agree regarding the servers. It's taken them a very long time to get the 2020 servers to a usable level but even today I still get the odd disconnect. Remember the days required to do a full re-install (due to slow downloads) what fun! Also if the VR performance is no better then 2020 whats the point of spending any cash at all on a downgrade? Time will tell, fingers crossed. I am on the fence about 2024
Cheers mate, tbh if it wasn't for being a TH-camr, I'd probably wait a while before purchasing this one. I'm not expecting much on release day. But I aim to make a first impression video, warts 'n' all on the 19th.
I just installed Microsoft windows update 22H4, my VR is now smooth as silk, also using the dev alpha and VR is butter smooth, there’s always room for improvement but this is be best VR flight experience I have had to date. I do agree with having more stuff on our hard drives but that might change if there are enough people having issues, let’s wait for release as we’re be given bare bones versions to test so far
Interesting to hear your thoughts steve ...complety agree with you in regards the internet and the data not on your pc . Ps.i havent preordered ..going to wait to see how other folks get on with it 😬
Considering they didn't even fully utilize multi core processors in 2020 shows how little foresight Asobo has. That in itself gives me no confidence in 2024. It's a wonder we got a 64bit executable.
Personally I still find myself using Xplane VR a lot. If simbrief and autoortho worked a bit better I would use at full time. You can tell VR was treated like a feature by laminar vs a fun gimmick like asobo had it as. In Xplane, you can move around, flip switches easily with hand controls. While in msfs I am having to crane my neck every which way just to hit the lights on the overhead because the hand controls don’t work right and my mouse sits ahead of me. Menus are intuitive and easy. It performs a lot better(I only have a 1080 and VR is mostly smooth on xplane vs vr being serviceable to unplayable in msfs). The flight models are nicer. While it looks way worse than MSFS making it a less breathtaking experience Xplane is so much more VR friendly.
Good video Steve. 100% have the same concerns. I have no interest in games/sims that require me to be tethered to their servers. I'm going to see how the cache option works before considering an upgrade.
Cheers mate much appreciated. I've even thought about going back to X Plane as I hate the thought of being even more server dependant than we already are.
I think 2020 is running better than ever … Q3, 4090, Virtual DT. I will be day one purchase 2024 because, (call me stupid), I enjoyed seeing the improvements during the evolving of 2020 and 2024 will no doubt be same. And finally, well done MS and Asobo for not calling it MS2025 ( per Codemasters, EA and those other jokers lol !)
Hope you don't mind I put this here..... Awesome news from PMDG Boeing 747 returns exclusively to MSFS2024 (feel free to delete and slap me) "Boeing 747 Randazzo also shared a lengthy update in regard to the Boeing 747. While we already knew the developer was working on this aircraft, one of the teasers that was shared previously turned out to be that of the 747 ‘classic’. PMDG confirmed that for the first time, in addition to the 747-400 series, the developer will also be covering the 747-100. This will happen for MSFS2024 exclusively. Furthermore, the developer hopes to add further variants over time, such as the 747SP, RA001, Air Force One and more. For now though, we’ll need to do with an early render of the overhead panel as well as an image of the development team, as this plane is still well under development." I really missed this in MSFS2020 my go to Vatsim aircraft, it was like the msfs2020 was incomplete with out it....
Thanks again Chief! for the always great and informative videos !!! Thank you!,I have a question,maybe you can help me,,,I noticed in your video,you have the honeycomb throttle console,,I also have one!! Unfortunately ,Ive experienced the trim wheel is totally dodgy !!! Its acting very weird ,I cant even use it,,because its totally jerky!!I was able to find some info about this issue,but nothing really helpful .....Do you have any issues with this thing? trim wheel?? thank you,and Cheers
Thankyou I really appreciate it. I actually don't use the trim wheel on the Bravo as it's awful. I use my old Saitek Cessna Trim wheel, but I'm not sure they are available these days :(
I think we all share your concerns Steve I won’t be buying it until I see your first video on release day Also one of my concerns is how stuttery it is when you swap cameras and that stupid zoom in and out in menus especially in vr might crash your headset
Hey Paul, cheers mate. I will do my absolute best to get my first impressions out on day one. At the moment, I'm not holding too much hope it will be a stutter free experience, even with my system. Best wishes.
I am sorry for many people out there. My internet is fiber and I get about 800 megabits per second on WiFi 6. Wired I have 1.2 gigabits per second. The $110 per month I pay is well worth it. I also just upgraded my computer 6 months ago to an RTX 4090.
are you sure there is no better offer for that price in your country ? I'm about the same performances(a little bit less) and my base price is 34 euros per month (if not negotiated) but I usually "threaten" to unsubscribe and I pay currently 24 euros for the next 12 months in France lol
@elmaxlife nope! Only 2 internet providers in this area. They are priced the same, 2 GPS for $110/month. The fiber is the better option as download and upload speeds are about the same. The cable gets 2 gigs download but averages around 100 megabits upload. There is a satellite option but it is much slower. Or I can pay $250/month for 5 gigs. Myself and my 2 sons are gaming so the internet speed gets split up between us so sometimes I will slow to around 600 megabits.
I hope they will at least give an option to download some of the scenery/areas to the drive, another issue with using so much network is if someone uses e.g. Quest 3 via wifi, it will definitely impact performance of the VR
@@UneasyMusic What bandwidth does your ISP provide that you think this matters? What specific benefit do you expect to gain from this? Of course you are free to just want it, just "because", but that's not a rational reason.
@@a5cent 900, but it matters for meta quest if used wirelessly, for that reason many tries to plus PC with ethernet cable and only keep Quest connected via WiFi
@@UneasyMusic Okay. Yeah. I do see your point. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the bandwidth concern framed in that context around here. It's typically framed as an issue with ISP bandwidth, whereas you are concerned with WiFi bandwidth. That being said, the engineer in me thinks its backwards, as we're expecting Adobo to work around an absolutely attrocious pseudo-solution to wireless VR, but I do understand wanting it. Best solution by far is to run an Ethernet cable between the modem and your PC. Should really be done either way as that has plenty of other benefits too. Reserve WiFi for mobile devices.
Agree with your concerns And all depends on what the devs mean by " from the ground up" Ie I hope its not the re use of whole carry over modules just stacked & arranged in a different order.. I always worry when single use / give it a go then forget about it code is added and marketed as a feature. Ie Walking around an airport imho. Pointless. Especially more so if the server switching between land and flight affects the game play and load times of the differing caches. And being stuck with a content online requirement. Im going to stay on the fence and not purchase and wait for reviews..
No high speed internet available to me in a low population area near Denver. I'm going to buy Basic, but worried that my 25-ish mbps max won't work decently even without VR. Hopefully I can use caching to save the day.
i also hope Flightmodel is more towards DCS or Xplane Feeling. The last updates MSFS2020 was quite ok but not as great as the other sims. Streaming i guess Asobo is aware of the importance that it works. Maybe not on day 1. VR i think they dont f... it up. MSFS2020 VR was realy ok. Maybe at some day something like the smoothflight App is available also or included in the Sim. Works very good on my older machine. Im waiting to maybe December to buy the new Version. Visuals are very great in the new one and i cant wait to go Bushflying in HD Scenery soon.
VR just isn’t there or worth the expense without a full 1:1 ratio hardware cockpit for MR. Imo. Especially for training purposes. Im leaning triple monitors & head tracking. Quality hardware peripherals. Better have a physical Ethernet cord & not rely on Wi-Fi.
''VR just isn’t there or worth the expense without a full 1:1 ratio hardware cockpit for MR'' - I could not disagree more, any cockpit IS your cockpit in VR :)
@ I see what you mean & concur to an extent. However, I’m coming from more of a legit training perspective in order for it to transfer to irl, I should have clarified initially
I don't think multithreading will help a lot of VR users as they are likely already GPU limited because of the high resolutions VR headsets need to push
Also worried about streaming, I have 130mb/30mb connection which quite often falls below 100mb. Even in 2020 I use ssd for cache. Also wary of DX12 but we'll see.
I hope they finally fixed the blurry instruments with DLSS, so that it can finally be used in VR. And I wonder when they will turn off the servers and the game will become trash (both 2020 and 2024)...
I'm ok with data streaming, if it could go straight from my net adapter straight to GPU i would be fine with that. maybe i will finally get some use out of my 3Gps connection Bell sold me..
I mean not just VR there are potentially a lot of downgrades to the sim (while definitely some improvements) unfortunately that’s Asobo’s MO 3 steps forward 2 steps back.
@@WillisKeeper That's what I thought it was, but figured it's so obvious to include it must already be there, so it's gotta mean something else. Apparently not I guess.
Being that I work in telecoms and data centre deployments anyone who thinks cloud won’t become the norm for most large data sets/Apps are in for a shock. Whether you like it or not and believe all the hype etc it won’t change that deploying large data sets in the cloud are now the norm, it’s just cost, simplicity, blah blah ask an AI the benefits 😅. Being an avid fsim for decades I have the same concerns that the infrastructure can cope on day one but how many times does 2020 die ? The days of having 500/750Gb of DCS / Xplane data on your PC for me is over. Ofc when the servers are down it won’t work, just same as any other online server for media. It’s irrelevant what you think is right or wrong if the providers go this way your have to take it or leave it. I have some sympathy for ppl with poor access to the internet but that won’t change anything. Enough ppl have good access to internet to make the business case. If you dislike 2024 so much keep using 2020/DCS/Xplane 11/12 no one’s stopping you. As for VR I never use it so have no idea what 2024 is going to be like.
You really should try VR, thanks for your thoughts. I personally will never be a fan of any 'only online' platform. So many games have come under fire due to poor server stability. If you have paid for something and you cannot get access to it, that does not seem very fair to me.
@ I really wish I could. I wanted to be a pilot from a child but was born with visual impairment in both eyes that carnt be rectified which means I’ve never been able to even drive so could never be a pilot and so VR is complete no go. I understand ppl are hesitant about 2024 I don’t know any better what service will be like on day one for 2024. Trust me when you deal with it everyday is even more of a miracle it works so well 😂 there’s so much interconnected. Would I love to have 2Pb of data for fsim on my PC yes , can I attach enough fast storage and afford it or download or update 2Pb worth of that data, absolutely not. You carnt have it both ways fsimmers want ever more realistic fsim it won’t come by downloading data to a personal device. 2024 will be and become an example of this it’s simple maths you want whole world realistic and updated it’s simply not possible with personal data.
Nope. I'm going to pass. The price tag is so greedy. The features in 2024 should of been in 2020. I play a lot of VR games and msfs looks the worse. I don't feel 2024 is going to be any better as it's considered an after thought.
I think you’re worrying too much. Let’s face it MSFS has continually developed. The tech alpha ran much better than MSFS 2020. Even if performance is only on par with MSFS 2020 VR that’s good enough. The pc community are constantly chasing FPS, yes it does to an extent matter. But if it runs ok, then just enjoy it. Think how far VR has come. New GPU will be announced soon, good times are about to roll 😉
This video is intended to just voice my concerns, don't worry, as I said in the video, I am looking forward to the release. Cheers for watching and commenting!
Don't you think that they'd have been crowing about how great VR is in 2024 by now if it actually was going to be? Yes, they know it won't be, all those imaging that multi threading is some kind of magic pill are living in a delusion...
I wonder how VR will even be supported in MSFS 2024. WIll WMR still work? And if not, do I have to purchase the game on Steam in order to use Steam VR?
I doubt they are loading in things that are close enough to be seen by turning your head, that would be ridiculous. They will always load a radius around you, ideally as far as the eye can see. And you're mixing up megabytes and megabits when talking about internet speeds, 450-500 megabytes per second would be insane 😅 And PG cities have always been streamed in AFAIK DX12 has performed better for me than DX12 for ages for me. Might be because I use DLSS and you don't though
Reason why I have not pre-ordered, the streaming is BS, who does not have money to get a 2tb SSD in 2024 when they are dirty cheap? I think that will be an issue for quite a lot of people for cap, speed and availability even in developed countries.
Hi John another great report, I don't fly real just MSFS your reports have help me to move away from gaming mind set to thinking like a real pilot, just a observation why was the USA Stars and Strips in a bad way ....
Asobo hustle cares about great trailer footage. They never were about proper performance, good VR or realistic flight physics. Its a shame what they built with MSFS2020 compared to MSFS X. And its a shame what they build compared to other flight sims (Condor Soaring, X-Plane, Aerofly FS) in terms of physics. I don‘t expect anything from Asobo except a high priced „game“ with bad performance
Unfortunately it's all about maximising profits, Xbox is their priority , vr is a very small part of their business model. Yep it helps to have a fast connection but as you say you are at the mercy of the servers. Let's hope it all works 🤞
I think we should just wait and see first…. Games not even out yet, and the first year or so of MSFS 2020 brought the game on massively in terms of fixing issues
I agree! But these concerns need to be voiced, as I feel the hype train is getting a little extreme and we need to stay grounded (pardon the pun) and temper our expectations.
Are you going to purchase MSFS 2024?
Yessss. Done. Lol.
@@theVRpilot I still need to pre order 🤦
Pre-ordered ☺️
VR Will be a deal maker or breaker for me, yes for now.
@@VRFlightSimGuy 🤣 you must be kidding me! I want your day one preview 😁
Pre-order it now! 🤪
I share your concerns my friend. VR it seems has always been an afterthought for Asobo... Hell they weren't even originally going to have it in MSFS2020 if memory serves. So many sim pilots now use VR, they really need to prioritize VR for their serious userbase. Like you, I hope Dynamic Foveated Rendering will be a day 1 feature but I guess we will just have to wait and see. I look forward to your final review once MSFS2024 is released... You will be the first place I turn to learn about it.
Hey Mark! Thanks buddy, I do feel VR is 'hanging on' rather than being the 'separate platform' Asobo promised. I remain hopeful we will get DFR at some point though, it would be such a wasted opportunity otherwise.
Yes but they also focus Xbox players... Not only hardcore simmers. I am happy with msfs 2020 so I will be happy with 2024. Quadview will be the Graal with my crystal when he'll be available.
I believe Asobo were specialist in VR technology before doing game development. They have stated a lot of the development team use VR on a day to day basis, so they are aware of it.
I suspect once they have 2024 stable they will look to thing like VR and camera control. Remember MSFS202 was restricted by the legacy technology. This is a totally new build. Concentrating on VR is not a priority as it cater for a small percentage of the user base. Also the VR space is very fluid at the moment with several standards and platforms and new technology appearing every few months. . We really need a DX-VR standard to appear.
hello my friend
@@richardPalmisano Fancy seeing you here LOL
I have no intention of purchasing for at least 6 months after release for these reasons. 2020, was horrific on release. I am hoping for better VR performance with 24 but skeptical.
True I’m sticking with 2020. I don’t preorder anymore anything.
It’s pointless and it’s a bit of a hype strategy to get people to test servers and so on. It’s also less to this whole fiasco of us buying unfinished products and then crying why devs have not finished them and so on.
Absolutely agree about the fly by camera view. I love that in DCS and I can’t understand why Asobo haven’t included it in MSFS.
I understand your concern about the performance. However, it will definitely be better. The problem is if the jump in details is higher than the jump in performance. In that case, we must compare it between similar visuals and it have to be better.
Optimistically being realistic on observations or expectations does not make it sound incredibly negative. All of your concerns are legit. 😎👍👍I hope Dynamic Foveated Rendering will be a day 1 feature as well. It is why my DCS experience is twice that of MSFS 2020 in FPS.
Much appreciated thankyou :)
I don’t worry. Why not, you might ask? Well, because I can’t do anything about it. I’ll just have to wait and see how the new sim will work. It might be good, it might be bad, or something in between. I love flying in VR, and hopefully the experience will still be good. If not, I just hope that Asobo will fix whatever problems they got. 🤞
My only Hope: Your Channel has to grow!
Thanks Andy, it's slow but steady :)
@@VRFlightSimGuy Keep going, I support where I can :)
@@andyydna5330 thx mate. It's a struggle sometimes!
I don't think data centres are being built fast enough to cope with our massive appetite for big data transfer, so I think your fears are valid about the cloud computing. Even the phone signal here in the UK is getting worse due to huge demand.
The data centers that are being built won't be sustainable either. I am in Arizona and they are building data centers all over the Phoenix area. Those data centers are hungry for electricity and water while the Southwest U.S. is dealing with a manufactured drought and government is working hard to make everything dependent on the electric grid rather than oil. I am not sure if the servers for FS2024 will be in the data centers in Arizona, but if they are, I would expect outages from time to time.
That‘s such a valid point I didnt think about yet.
@@Disobedient_One I was an electrical supervisor on a 33KV substation in the UK. We are having to wait possibly up to 2 years for a HV connection onto the national grid.
@@Disobedient_One It's not the fiber optics being used causing any problems. They have not come close to reaching the limitation of light transmission on single mode fiber. It's the electronics used for the end equipment that can't keep up with processing the data needed.
And yet AI is going to destroy us right, when such simple things are trash
I hope the OpenXR toolkit will work in 2024, it gives so many options for tweaking I’d be really sad to lose it. That being said, I’m planning to have both sims installed if I can so it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
I really hope so too. I'll be testing it on day one 😁
It will be very exciting to see what we get, but I have been thinking that I probably will be using the previous version for some time. Unless there are no major issues at launch, which I highly doubt. Fingers crossed that it will be smooth sailing. Or should I say flying. Have a nice weekend 🙂 Love from Norway ♥♥♥♥♥
That's a very wise decision mate, as we've come to learn, new is not always better! Have a great weekend. It's really gloomy in the UK at the moment.
@@VRFlightSimGuy Listen to Billie Holiday's "Gloomy Sunday" if there is no change by Sunday. But gloomy means more VR though.
Thanks for the review I have been searching for since the MASSIVE PR exercise from Microsoft/Asobo began. Your approach, which echoes insightful and credible journalism (in short these days of influencers and social media) has distilled my decision about rushing off and getting 2024. I am reminded that ideally serious simmers should aim to have all the major sims (DCS, XP11/12 and MSFS) in our collection. This allows us to use each for its strengths and not rely on variable servers only.
Having been flying and simming for over 40 years I know what works for me and currently it is the amazingly realistic flight dynamics of X-Plane and, on the other hand, the ability to visually explore the world in MSFS2020.
I will certainly buy 2024, just not yet....still need many hours on learning the F18 hornet radar in DCS, perfecting my R44 training in X-Plane 11 and completing my scenic tour of the Greek Islands in MSFS2020. Thanks again for your great channel.
Thankyou Andre, that really means a lot!
Like any PC release these days, I won't be touching this for another 6-12 months.
You are a more patient man than me!
@@VRFlightSimGuy Your videos will scratch that itch.
@@ShallowDepressionCheers 😊
Steve I've been concerned about this from day 1 and i think all the hype about 2024 is for 2D users and not vr. that's why I told you in a comment that I'm going to wait for your honest review before I decide to purchase MSF' 2024 especially for vr because that's all I use. and i know i can depend on your review for my decision.
@@richardPalmisano Cheers Richard. Expect my first impressions on day one.
I'm still convinced the concerne over bandwidth is entirely overblown. Not an issue.
Granted, the folks running their Quest 3 video stream over the same WiFi connection they use to connect to the internet could have issues. I just can't empathize with that problem, as Meta choosing a wireless solution that conpjetely saturates people's WiFi, severing them from any real internet usage during VR, was always a highly flawed approach to going wireless.
You can if you want download aircraft, world updates etc to your storage. You’ll have that option. The rolling cache will play a more important role. VR performance will be much the same in my opinion. I would wait for the official release then set the cats running if needed. 😂
Hey Mark, yes I mentioned this in my video, I'm really glad Asobo will provide this as an option, especially rolling cache. But I am genuinely concerned with the heavy reliance on even more cloud based services. Take care mate.
Marketplace Scenery Developer here. Take that as what you may. All i'll say is i'm not expecting any improved VR performance on release. If we're lucky, at release it may be better. But for now it's rough . But these are alphas we'll have to wait until release to really see how it is.
Really appreciate your feedback and thankyou for all your hard work.
It has to be better. 2d is unbelievably better with the core usage improvements. Also with new windows 11 improvements directstorage 2 . The GPU taking the information directly, lightening the load on the CPU even more. I can't possibly seeing it being worse, since me my case I have no complaints with vr performance in 2020
@@casstephens3124 True but at the same time they're packing it with newer features and higher resolution models and assets, which eat up the same added performance that those optimizations bring. So it's just a wait and see.
@@VRFlightSimGuy You're Welcome and thank you as well.
@slhsimdesigns exactly. And all those new features are still there in 2d and performance was better with nary a stutter. So I'll be cautiously optimistic
This is why I'm glad it's coming out on Game Pass. Will try it there first before considering whether or not to buy it. I have lots of issues with DX12 in 2020 - it doesn't work at all in VR - so if that is the same in 2024 then it would be a waste of money.
Very wise.
I'm using directx 12 with vr and it works great for me.
Well, you were right. The boffins at Asobo did ZERO testing in VR.
A) The mouse cursor is laggy af in VR.
B) The career mode continually asks for complicated keyboard inputs when it could have had you mouse over the instruction to click and complete. Although - see A.
C) MSFS announces Pimax as VR partner, but you cannot map any functions to your Pimax controllers (i want to walk around in VR, not using m/keyboard inputs) showing just how empty and pointless that particular announcement was. Oh you can map an Occulus touch controller. Yay! Can you even buy those anymore?
D) Beware opening menus in VR, such as ATC interactions (pretty much required for career mode), because the sim will decide not to let you close or move them. Mission restart required because they all open directly in your line of sight.
Shame they are lazy with the implementation because it is looking incredible, and giving pretty good VR performance.
Jorg Neumann & Asobos "support" of VR has been extremely lacklustre since the initial release, they've got the mentality that they've "done enough" and that's seemingly all they care about.
Bugs from SU5 & SU7 that directly affect VR users are still unfixed, a major lack of features in 4 years since the VR Update and seemingly only Dynamic FPS added in MSFS24.
I've long since learnt to temper my expectations when it comes to VR with this dev company, so therefore i won't be disappointed in another 4 years of ignorance from Jorg and his team. The very fact they merged the VR Team into the Core Dev team years ago says it all, they need to do better but i doubt they will.
I agree, hence why I think this video is important to make for others. Thanks for voicing your concerns.
They said back in one of the videos that VR is now being treated as it's own platform - ie they have PC, Xbox, Cloud and now VR. IF true that is potentially quite good news. Ultimately though the proof is always in the pudding and we shall see....
@Zeeflyboy that's nothing new they've said that for years in past Q&As.
Whilst I understand your concerns over processing on the cloud, from a computational perspective, the cloud and the back links within an enterprise server environment will continue to outperform most people's home PCs with a limited/mid-range budget. The Tech Alpha was a cute little data-gathering exercise for the team on their systems, so they can provision suitable computing to address concerns.
Keep up the great videos :)
Many thanks. Although the data being used from the cloud won't mean you can run it any better with a mid range systems. You are just downloading the data to be processed by your own system. You'll still need a decent rig.
I just have two things: Please fix the rendering bug in the left eye (Lights through clouds visible only in one eye) + I hope that openxr toolkit is working😊
Good ones Andy!
I'm less concerned about a flyby camera than I am about being unable to switch back to the cockpit view after going into the drone camera - using a mapped button. The only way to switch out of drone mode in MSFS 2020 is using the default keyboard key. That's GOT to be fixed in 2024.
For me the big issue is one that MSFS2020, MSFS2024, and Asobo has yet to address. That is helicopters looking like winged airplanes to other online players. It is totally stupid for all this tech going into these sims, yet they are OK seeing winged planes hovering into landing and taking off. Why not simply assign some generic helicopter models and have those be rendered to the online players. FSX, X-PLane addressed this long ago.
Same concerns with me exactly Steve. I said it in our group but I'll not be a day one buyer - I haven't even pro-ordered, when I thought I would. Just gonna wait this one out for a bit and gather feedback before making the jump. As you said with the streaming, it's way too internet dependant - and eliminating that hard drive dependence is potentially going to lead to more performance issues, but lets see. I want to be excited for it, and I hope it delivers - but too many worries right now!
Exactly mate, appreciate your thoughts. To be honest if it wasn't for being a YT, I'd wait this one out myself. Take care.
@@VRFlightSimGuy Well I look forward to what you have to say on it mate. You'll be one of those voices I'll be listening to to make my decision! I hope it's painless for you anyway, fingers crossed!
I thought I was the only pessimist about 2024 - I have always said about being at the mercy of the servers, especially if they are not improved from what we have at the moment- what about when you get the 'rush hour' when everyone finish work and go for a flight- thanks for voicing these concerns
I'm surprised to hear that you have poor performance with DX12 in 2020. I've actually found that it performs better in VR than DX11 on my computer. Maybe because I'm using a Radeon RX 6900XT?
Very possible!
Hi. Great video. Another thing to mention is that it might need some time until all the 3rd party apps and peripherals (yokes, motion etc) will work. I will install this on a new SD with fresh system so that I can jump back essiliy. Think this transition needs years.
Very good point, I can't believe I missed that out 🤦
Jorg has already said it will be similar to 2020 performance on release. I would save the rant until the 20th Nov. We might all be having one.
I'm happy to rant again... first impression video will go live on release day. Thx for watching.
I cant blame you for being negative about VR capabilities and the support from game developers.
Most of my leaps and bounds in performance has been from the community with third party support and tools.
I really really hope the VR support improves. I'd love a sim/game that comes out with VR considerations from day one :)
If the flight model fails, at least I will be happy for xplane! 😅 This sim must not die🎉
It concerns me that VR has barely been mentioned in the pre-release hype, almost an afterthought, which is so jarring.
regarding flight model. idk if fsim users also tried dcs, i have around 2k hours of dcs and bought fsim2020 and the flight model felt so unrealistic, easy and not satisfying i just used it for the normal "look there is my house" for 2 hours then went back to dcs. i hope that has improved but it felt very casual compared to the very hard core dcs. What fsim really has going for it is beautiful and deailed maps where dcs is really lacking. wish we could have dcs in fsim maps :/
You were not negative without good reason. There has to be a balance to views . We haven't had a chance to see 2024 properly yet but based on the fact that 2020 had a bug list a mile long and many of them were never resolved in its lifetime, you are well within your rights to be more than a little worried.
Fingers crossed eh?
Appreciated thankyou. Fingers and toes crossed!
lookup tables will always be more accurate in normal flight conditions
Thanks for the video Steve! Waiting for real reviews before I buy. Very concerned about the internet connection issues since I live in a rural area with only 24Megs at best! Don't really want to buy Starlink for 3 times the monthly cost especially when stormy weather during the winter months with several feet of annual snow here will block the signal entirely! Might stick with 2020 for some time especially when I can get a 5090 on my new custom built system soon. My 7800X3D system does NOT have any bottleneck issues with 2020 and still have plenty of headroom plus with a 5090 soon would be quite happy in VR with a crystal light. (My 3080Ti prevents me from fully utilizing the Crystal Light's maximum resolution at the moment. I'm at 0.80 for acceptable frame timings. ) Happy simming!
Cheers mate, I completely agree with you. Expecting most people to have 100mbps even in 2024 is ludicrous.
Preaching to the choir here, but I don't understand why they don't pay more attention to VR. The experience is just incredible. Flatscreen just doesn't hold my interest, VR flight sim has changed my life. For sure the reliance on streaming and servers is a concern, as is hardware ability to keep up.
No not negative at all, realistic more like especially the worries about the server load, well said Steve
Thanks buddy much appreciated
Microsoft 2020 took awhile to become the level it is now..yes I'm concerned, however tech moves forwards. Lucky we have a choice 2020 and 2024 .My opinion is 2024 will take time to become the simulator we want so let's stay positive. Thanks for another great content video.
Cheers Ken, appreciate your thoughts here.
I have always been using DX12 in MSFS 2020 VR and, although it was not great early on, I'd really like to understand what has been - or, more precisely, what negative issues are currently being experienced by others. Thanks for the video as always.
Cheers Michael, I tend to recommend, if you are using DLSS in VR, DX12 is the way to go, but for TAA mode (crisper visuals but more demand), I find DX11 gives you better performance.
A cautionary tale for current and prospective Meta Quest VR headset owners:
I'm on day 25 of Meta holding my Quest headsets hostage. I've been using Oculus/Quest devices from the day they started making them (10 years ago?), and I have not been required to give my date of birth to Meta in all this time. But they recently demanded my DOB under threat of disabling my Quests, and they made good on that threat 25 days ago.
Meta can metaphorically brick your headsets, any time they want, and for any reason they want, and you will have no defense against it.
Conclusion: Think carefully before you BUY anything from Meta; The thing you BUY will not be yours.
Pimax Crystal Light it is then!
@@VRFlightSimGuy Ya, I'm leaning that way, but I'm still chafing against the darn tether.
They also own your eyes! The most valuable data you can get!
Whats bad about just giving your date of birth?
I get it’s rubbish that a company does not let you use your head set that you bought.
I mean just put another date of birth. I always put my surname name as Noyb ( none of your business) they never catch on :😂
@@alexsp7086 agreed... if they want to play stupid games... give them stupid prizes!
Great rant Steve, I fully agree regarding the servers. It's taken them a very long time to get the 2020 servers to a usable level but even today I still get the odd disconnect. Remember the days required to do a full re-install (due to slow downloads) what fun!
Also if the VR performance is no better then 2020 whats the point of spending any cash at all on a downgrade?
Time will tell, fingers crossed.
I am on the fence about 2024
Cheers mate, tbh if it wasn't for being a TH-camr, I'd probably wait a while before purchasing this one. I'm not expecting much on release day. But I aim to make a first impression video, warts 'n' all on the 19th.
I just installed Microsoft windows update 22H4, my VR is now smooth as silk, also using the dev alpha and VR is butter smooth, there’s always room for improvement but this is be best VR flight experience I have had to date. I do agree with having more stuff on our hard drives but that might change if there are enough people having issues, let’s wait for release as we’re be given bare bones versions to test so far
What VR headset are you using?
What GPU you use?
@@bakzetary3145 Crystal Light
I thought vr was not available in tech alpha
@@Supermotoxl 4090
i am a newbie. what is the hardware required to play this MSFS smoothly?
Interesting to hear your thoughts steve ...complety agree with you in regards the internet and the data not on your pc .
Ps.i havent preordered ..going to wait to see how other folks get on with it 😬
Cheers mate, neither have I yet. I best get cracking :D
Considering they didn't even fully utilize multi core processors in 2020 shows how little foresight Asobo has. That in itself gives me no confidence in 2024. It's a wonder we got a 64bit executable.
Personally I still find myself using Xplane VR a lot. If simbrief and autoortho worked a bit better I would use at full time. You can tell VR was treated like a feature by laminar vs a fun gimmick like asobo had it as. In Xplane, you can move around, flip switches easily with hand controls. While in msfs I am having to crane my neck every which way just to hit the lights on the overhead because the hand controls don’t work right and my mouse sits ahead of me. Menus are intuitive and easy. It performs a lot better(I only have a 1080 and VR is mostly smooth on xplane vs vr being serviceable to unplayable in msfs). The flight models are nicer. While it looks way worse than MSFS making it a less breathtaking experience Xplane is so much more VR friendly.
Good video Steve. 100% have the same concerns. I have no interest in games/sims that require me to be tethered to their servers. I'm going to see how the cache option works before considering an upgrade.
Cheers mate much appreciated. I've even thought about going back to X Plane as I hate the thought of being even more server dependant than we already are.
I think 2020 is running better than ever … Q3, 4090, Virtual DT. I will be day one purchase 2024 because, (call me stupid), I enjoyed seeing the improvements during the evolving of 2020 and 2024 will no doubt be same. And finally, well done MS and Asobo for not calling it MS2025 ( per Codemasters, EA and those other jokers lol !)
Hope you don't mind I put this here..... Awesome news from PMDG Boeing 747 returns exclusively to MSFS2024 (feel free to delete and slap me)
"Boeing 747 Randazzo also shared a lengthy update in regard to the Boeing 747. While we already knew the developer was working on this aircraft, one of the teasers that was shared previously turned out to be that of the 747 ‘classic’. PMDG confirmed that for the first time, in addition to the 747-400 series, the developer will also be covering the 747-100. This will happen for MSFS2024 exclusively. Furthermore, the developer hopes to add further variants over time, such as the 747SP, RA001, Air Force One and more. For now though, we’ll need to do with an early render of the overhead panel as well as an image of the development team, as this plane is still well under development."
I really missed this in MSFS2020 my go to Vatsim aircraft, it was like the msfs2020 was incomplete with out it....
Thanks again Chief! for the always great and informative videos !!! Thank you!,I have a question,maybe you can help me,,,I noticed in your video,you have the honeycomb throttle console,,I also have one!! Unfortunately ,Ive experienced the trim wheel is totally dodgy !!! Its acting very weird ,I cant even use it,,because its totally jerky!!I was able to find some info about this issue,but nothing really helpful .....Do you have any issues with this thing? trim wheel?? thank you,and Cheers
Thankyou I really appreciate it. I actually don't use the trim wheel on the Bravo as it's awful. I use my old Saitek Cessna Trim wheel, but I'm not sure they are available these days :(
I think we all share your concerns Steve
I won’t be buying it until I see your first video on release day
Also one of my concerns is how stuttery it is when you swap cameras and that stupid zoom in and out in menus especially in vr might crash your headset
Hey Paul, cheers mate. I will do my absolute best to get my first impressions out on day one. At the moment, I'm not holding too much hope it will be a stutter free experience, even with my system. Best wishes.
The only thing i worried about is no quad view dfr native build in
Take this, Algo!😅
Lol thanks mate 😁😁
I am sorry for many people out there. My internet is fiber and I get about 800 megabits per second on WiFi 6. Wired I have 1.2 gigabits per second. The $110 per month I pay is well worth it. I also just upgraded my computer 6 months ago to an RTX 4090.
are you sure there is no better offer for that price in your country ? I'm about the same performances(a little bit less) and my base price is 34 euros per month (if not negotiated) but I usually "threaten" to unsubscribe and I pay currently 24 euros for the next 12 months in France lol
@elmaxlife nope! Only 2 internet providers in this area. They are priced the same, 2 GPS for $110/month. The fiber is the better option as download and upload speeds are about the same. The cable gets 2 gigs download but averages around 100 megabits upload. There is a satellite option but it is much slower. Or I can pay $250/month for 5 gigs. Myself and my 2 sons are gaming so the internet speed gets split up between us so sometimes I will slow to around 600 megabits.
I hope they will at least give an option to download some of the scenery/areas to the drive, another issue with using so much network is if someone uses e.g. Quest 3 via wifi, it will definitely impact performance of the VR
It's called the MSFS rolling cache.
@a5cent I would still prefer to have an option to download region at least, hopefully that will happen at some point as it seems to be main complaint
@@UneasyMusic
What bandwidth does your ISP provide that you think this matters?
What specific benefit do you expect to gain from this?
Of course you are free to just want it, just "because", but that's not a rational reason.
@@a5cent 900, but it matters for meta quest if used wirelessly, for that reason many tries to plus PC with ethernet cable and only keep Quest connected via WiFi
@@UneasyMusic
Okay. Yeah. I do see your point.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the bandwidth concern framed in that context around here. It's typically framed as an issue with ISP bandwidth, whereas you are concerned with WiFi bandwidth.
That being said, the engineer in me thinks its backwards, as we're expecting Adobo to work around an absolutely attrocious pseudo-solution to wireless VR, but I do understand wanting it.
Best solution by far is to run an Ethernet cable between the modem and your PC. Should really be done either way as that has plenty of other benefits too. Reserve WiFi for mobile devices.
Agree with your concerns And all depends on what the devs mean by " from the ground up"
Ie I hope its not the re use of whole carry over modules just stacked & arranged in a different order..
I always worry when single use / give it a go then forget about it code is added and marketed as a feature.
Ie Walking around an airport imho. Pointless.
Especially more so if the server switching between land and flight affects the game play and load times of the differing caches.
And being stuck with a content online requirement.
Im going to stay on the fence and not purchase and wait for reviews..
I have the same concerns fingers crossed all go well on the 19th
I did notice sometimes the game would run smoother I didn't know it was the servers good looking out
I'm wondering what photogrammetry areas are going to look like when you get down low? Will it fall apart due to low res?
It should look as good if not better than 2020.
No high speed internet available to me in a low population area near Denver. I'm going to buy Basic, but worried that my 25-ish mbps max won't work decently even without VR. Hopefully I can use caching to save the day.
i also hope Flightmodel is more towards DCS or Xplane Feeling. The last updates MSFS2020 was quite ok but not as great as the other sims. Streaming i guess Asobo is aware of the importance that it works. Maybe not on day 1. VR i think they dont f... it up. MSFS2020 VR was realy ok. Maybe at some day something like the smoothflight App is available also or included in the Sim. Works very good on my older machine.
Im waiting to maybe December to buy the new Version. Visuals are very great in the new one and i cant wait to go Bushflying in HD Scenery soon.
I only want to see multithreading see improve vr performance.I'm always cpu-limited on a 3900x. The rest I don't care too much about.
VR just isn’t there or worth the expense without a full 1:1 ratio hardware cockpit for MR. Imo. Especially for training purposes. Im leaning triple monitors & head tracking. Quality hardware peripherals. Better have a physical Ethernet cord & not rely on Wi-Fi.
''VR just isn’t there or worth the expense without a full 1:1 ratio hardware cockpit for MR'' - I could not disagree more, any cockpit IS your cockpit in VR :)
@ I see what you mean & concur to an extent. However, I’m coming from more of a legit training perspective in order for it to transfer to irl, I should have clarified initially
Great video!
Thanks buddy ☺️
I don't think multithreading will help a lot of VR users as they are likely already GPU limited because of the high resolutions VR headsets need to push
Good point!
I’ll get MSFS 2024 once they have proven the VR and telemetry, I’ll not pre-order. If it comes later then I’ll buy it later
Do VR wave do a green filtered lens? I have a PSVR2 & in some games I have quite a bit of mura & I heard green filters help.
I'm not sure, might be worth having a look on their website. Cheers!
Also worried about streaming, I have 130mb/30mb connection which quite often falls below 100mb. Even in 2020 I use ssd for cache. Also wary of DX12 but we'll see.
Maybe if servers aren't up to it and enough complain they will release areas (for a fee) so U can download to your SSD and keep it there.
I hope they finally fixed the blurry instruments with DLSS, so that it can finally be used in VR. And I wonder when they will turn off the servers and the game will become trash (both 2020 and 2024)...
Thanks, you make some good points.....
Thanks David :)
I'm ok with data streaming, if it could go straight from my net adapter straight to GPU i would be fine with that. maybe i will finally get some use out of my 3Gps connection Bell sold me..
I mean not just VR there are potentially a lot of downgrades to the sim (while definitely some improvements) unfortunately that’s Asobo’s MO 3 steps forward 2 steps back.
Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
Thanks Steve excellent contribution, thinking of X-plane 12 or MS 2024 will hold out more on VR performance.
Cheers mate, thanks for your support.
Dont worry, microsoft has endorsed Pimax as there VR companion. I'm pretty sure they will nail it. The Pimax guys will help them out.
They endorsed the G2 also... look where that left us. 🤬
What is a flyby view?
neeeeeeeeeOOOOOOOWWWmmmmmmmm (that's a flyby) ;)
The camera stays fixed a certain position and points at the aircraft as it flys by - hence the name.
That’s a bummer, I was hoping they would include that.
@@WillisKeeper That's what I thought it was, but figured it's so obvious to include it must already be there, so it's gotta mean something else. Apparently not I guess.
I still can't play the first one without my PC setting ablaze. What future PC will be able to play this game? 😂
Being that I work in telecoms and data centre deployments anyone who thinks cloud won’t become the norm for most large data sets/Apps are in for a shock. Whether you like it or not and believe all the hype etc it won’t change that deploying large data sets in the cloud are now the norm, it’s just cost, simplicity, blah blah ask an AI the benefits 😅. Being an avid fsim for decades I have the same concerns that the infrastructure can cope on day one but how many times does 2020 die ? The days of having 500/750Gb of DCS / Xplane data on your PC for me is over. Ofc when the servers are down it won’t work, just same as any other online server for media. It’s irrelevant what you think is right or wrong if the providers go this way your have to take it or leave it. I have some sympathy for ppl with poor access to the internet but that won’t change anything. Enough ppl have good access to internet to make the business case. If you dislike 2024 so much keep using 2020/DCS/Xplane 11/12 no one’s stopping you. As for VR I never use it so have no idea what 2024 is going to be like.
You really should try VR, thanks for your thoughts. I personally will never be a fan of any 'only online' platform. So many games have come under fire due to poor server stability. If you have paid for something and you cannot get access to it, that does not seem very fair to me.
@ I really wish I could. I wanted to be a pilot from a child but was born with visual impairment in both eyes that carnt be rectified which means I’ve never been able to even drive so could never be a pilot and so VR is complete no go. I understand ppl are hesitant about 2024 I don’t know any better what service will be like on day one for 2024. Trust me when you deal with it everyday is even more of a miracle it works so well 😂 there’s so much interconnected. Would I love to have 2Pb of data for fsim on my PC yes , can I attach enough fast storage and afford it or download or update 2Pb worth of that data, absolutely not. You carnt have it both ways fsimmers want ever more realistic fsim it won’t come by downloading data to a personal device. 2024 will be and become an example of this it’s simple maths you want whole world realistic and updated it’s simply not possible with personal data.
Nope. I'm going to pass. The price tag is so greedy. The features in 2024 should of been in 2020. I play a lot of VR games and msfs looks the worse. I don't feel 2024 is going to be any better as it's considered an after thought.
I think you’re worrying too much. Let’s face it MSFS has continually developed. The tech alpha ran much better than MSFS 2020. Even if performance is only on par with MSFS 2020 VR that’s good enough.
The pc community are constantly chasing FPS, yes it does to an extent matter. But if it runs ok, then just enjoy it.
Think how far VR has come. New GPU will be announced soon, good times are about to roll 😉
This video is intended to just voice my concerns, don't worry, as I said in the video, I am looking forward to the release. Cheers for watching and commenting!
Don't you think that they'd have been crowing about how great VR is in 2024 by now if it actually was going to be? Yes, they know it won't be, all those imaging that multi threading is some kind of magic pill are living in a delusion...
When will we see a developer create a VR based sim for us?
Aero fly FS4 is the closest
I'm sure your opinion of fighter jet flight models is based on your experience flying the real aircraft... right?
Correct, I am a real fighter pilot.
I wonder how VR will even be supported in MSFS 2024. WIll WMR still work? And if not, do I have to purchase the game on Steam in order to use Steam VR?
Open XR and Steam VR are supported as normal. I'd imagine WMR will work with Windows 10, or 11 if you do not update to the latest version.
I doubt they are loading in things that are close enough to be seen by turning your head, that would be ridiculous. They will always load a radius around you, ideally as far as the eye can see.
And you're mixing up megabytes and megabits when talking about internet speeds, 450-500 megabytes per second would be insane 😅
And PG cities have always been streamed in AFAIK
DX12 has performed better for me than DX12 for ages for me. Might be because I use DLSS and you don't though
FS2024 may just be FS2020 in the cloud re DX12, i.e.DX12 Beta. I hope not, and they’ve improved DX12! We will see!…
Reason why I have not pre-ordered, the streaming is BS, who does not have money to get a 2tb SSD in 2024 when they are dirty cheap? I think that will be an issue for quite a lot of people for cap, speed and availability even in developed countries.
Hi John another great report, I don't fly real just MSFS your reports have help me to move away from gaming mind set to thinking like a real pilot, just a observation why was the USA Stars and Strips in a bad way ....
My pleasure (my name is Steve btw) :)
@VRFlightSimGuy already have steve
If they don't focus on VR, then it will fall flat on its face. Right now I have no interest in this game.
I'm thinking about upgrading my system to an
Asobo hustle cares about great trailer footage.
They never were about proper performance, good VR or realistic flight physics.
Its a shame what they built with MSFS2020 compared to MSFS X. And its a shame what they build compared to other flight sims (Condor Soaring, X-Plane, Aerofly FS) in terms of physics.
I don‘t expect anything from Asobo except a high priced „game“ with bad performance
Oh nooo I dont like the headline 😢 just watching now
Unfortunately it's all about maximising profits, Xbox is their priority , vr is a very small part of their business model. Yep it helps to have a fast connection but as you say you are at the mercy of the servers. Let's hope it all works 🤞
Fingers crossed mate. Take care.
I think you are confused Megabits, not Megabytes
Yep!
If there is no DFR and Quad views I wont be buying it.
Fair enough. I'm hoping we won't need it so much with the 50 series GPUs.
@@VRFlightSimGuyIf Somebody can afford one😂
Those cliffs at the beginning, where was that again? Beautiful!
With the PSVR2? Somewhere in the Alps lol Sorry I can't remember.
Cliff of Moher, west coast of Ireland south of Galway Bay its beautiful there and my fs2020 still fecks it up lol
@@couldbewhykno Ahhh yes, the shot after the sponsor. Thanks for watching
@@couldbewhykno thank you!
I think we should just wait and see first…. Games not even out yet, and the first year or so of MSFS 2020 brought the game on massively in terms of fixing issues
I agree! But these concerns need to be voiced, as I feel the hype train is getting a little extreme and we need to stay grounded (pardon the pun) and temper our expectations.
100mbps sucks for me maximum I can get is 75mbps
I feel it's a big ask for most people and I don't think Asobo fully appreciate that