Mastering Crosswind Landings in a Cessna 172 - Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video, you'll see my student Rob (just nearing his solo) working on crosswind technique in a strong crosswind that approaches the maximum demonstrated crosswind for the airplane. We do several low passes and discuss how to align the airplane over the centerline, maintain alignment, and control drift. Please enjoy The Finer Points!
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Music by Michael Bizar
"A good landing is one that no one remembers"
Or the one that only the pilot remembers
Middle of the ocean, no one will notice. Unless you are MH370.
A VERY good landing is one that no one notices!
If you can walk away from a landing, it's a good landing. If you can use the airplane the next day, it's an outstanding landing. - Chuck Yeager
Yep. Dad taught me that about driving when I was a teen. He said that no one in the car should be aware of your driving. Miss that guy...
I love these weekly uploads. I’m working on my CFI and they are a big help! Most underrated instructional channel on YT. Keep up the good work Jason.
Thanks Carey! wilco
This is exactly where I am in my training. There was a slight crosswind today, just enough to blow me off centerline each time. Trying to learn to round out and bank just feet off the runway is a very unnatural feeling. I like the way you took the throttle and let him concentrate on the line-up and flare. I might ask to try that. By the way my instructor said he watches you too. That made me feel validated.
You learn the most when you're just out of your envelope. It's the same as taking your sloop out on a stormy day. It can be frightening, but pilots and sailors alike are courageous souls.
Jason, it’s just amazing how relaxed and detailed you explain everything and let the student grow into mastering the topic!!! :-)
One can never have enough instruction on crosswind landings (honestly my favorite). I did some "near max" crosswind landings back in December. Time to watch the video!
Rob did great!
Funny story - I'm working on my "extended BFR" (surprisingly, after 22 years it comes back pretty fast) and my instructor had me practicing crosswind landings on the 2nd (and last to date, it's hard to find a rental aircraft and instructor). He teaches slips (I don't like that btw... it doesn't work on an ILS) so I was trying to comply with his direction. As we turned base and I set up the slip I had the left rudder pedal pegged to the floor. Honestly... I was a little unnerved. I was doing something that I wasn't taught to do and the wind at altitude was clearly too much. As we continued to descend I heard "left rudder" in the headset. So I attempted to comply, grudgingly. Then again, "left rudder". I had the left rudder pedal on the floor and clearly it was too much, so I decided that it was time for me to fly the aircraft so I aligned the aircraft with the centerline and made a "pretty not bad" landing. As we rolled out we started talking about the landing and I commented that at one point I had the rudder pegged to the floor and that's why when he asked for more left rudder I didn't comply. He said, I was saying "LESS" rudder not "LEFT" rudder. It's funny now but I was seriously worried about my instructor at the time and I'd just about bet money that he was VERY worried about me lol. His takeaway was to use the term "opposite rudder" in the future. Both of use were wearing Bose headsets with noise cancelling, I think the hearing/understanding problem was related to the stress of the situation. The human mind is an interesting little knot of goo...
Funny story :D, add to it the fact that you were EXPECTING him to say left rudder and not really thinking he will ask you for less rudder, that is where our brain makes us hear and see what we expect!
That’s good instruction. Kudos to you for teaching a crab final vs a slip final for two reasons. 1...that’s how the autopilot pilot would do it on a coupled, IFR approach, and 2...some OM/POH’s caution against prolonged slips in aircraft with left/right only fuel selectors (fuel pick up problem with low quantity). If anyone wants to transition to bigger airplanes, the slip method is incorrect (primacy again).
I would guess you’re going to discuss flap position in high wing vs low wing aircraft during crosswinds in the next video?
I just commented about crab final vs slip final. I hadn't read this yet but you nailed it. Until recently I always flew the crab until it was time to transition to landing.
Thanks, the "other way" seems like a crutch.
ZERO flaps until you can fly the airplane. 👍
Great video - thanks for producing and sharing. Just curious how much flaps you were using on each low approach and finally your landing (warning - maybe be covered elsewhere, I did not read all the comments)? Thanks!
Today I landed with a 20 knot crosswind component, and holy shit the rudder was down to the ground and I was banking at least 15 degrees, but strangely it was a pretty good landing
Thanks for all the hard work you put into these videos Jason. Really helpful for student pilots. You gained a Patreon subscription today 👍👌✈️
Thank you for your support! It makes a huge difference. We're heading toward 500 Patrons and when we get there I'll do a video and a podcast every week. thanks again
Why full flaps? We do 10 degrees for crosswinds.
I can flare and land perfectly but cant keep with the centerline . You explain perfectly. Thank you
Getting ready to start my PPL course, your videos have been a great head start. Also, you have a great demeanor in the cockpit with your students, you never come across as frustrated or stressed. Good job.
I live in west Texas and am a low hour student pilot. I have never flown on a calm day and all my landing are in strong crosswinds. I find it to be better to only use 10 degrees of flaps if any at all. You are far more knowledgeable on this subject and I would appreciate if you can elaborate on how much flaps to use if you are in a strong crosswind landing. Love your channel and thank you for all the insight.
Thanks for the suggestion Jeremy. The good news is you'll be great at crosswinds!
I am good at crosswinds. It will be weird to land not looking out of the side window. Witch brings up another question. Who is the max crosswind component intended for? Cessa 172 has a max crosswind of 15kts but I have had several landings with a 25kt crosswind gusting to 30 and still had some rudder left.
Very good question Jeremy.! A lot to think about in a strong gusty cross wind. I personally use the headwind component to govern my flap setting. You are right to use less flap in higher cross winds in general, as you will need to keep the air flowing past the vertical stab and rudder. More importantly, to much flap will exasperate the ground effect, and maximize rudder input required as you approach the stall. A very good question and a lot to think about, when preparing for a go around.
@@flyifri Thanks! I know if I have a go around situation it's easier to build speed and climb without so much drag!
Kudos for doing low passes. Most instructors would either cancel the flight, go somewhere else, or force landings where the amount actually learned would be near zero as the poor student struggles in those precious few seconds before touchdown. Instead, he was able to have a LONGER time in the actual conditions and was able to see the results of what he's doing.
A few people commented about the "maximum crosswind" and yet, that number is the maximum DEMONSTRATED crosswind. It isn't the maximum a pilot can do. AOPA had a recent article about it and talked about how it is the number a somewhat less-than average pilot could do safely.
As for figuring out the crosswind component, I learned a trick years ago though I can't for the life of me remember where. It is simply to take one sixth (1/6th) of the crosswind component for every 10 degrees off centerline. So 20 degrees off centerline means 2/6ths (or 1/3rd) of the wind speed as a crosswind component (which at 21 knots means 7 knots). What that essentially means is that at 60 degrees or more off centerline, you are pretty close to full windspeed at crosswind.
Technically, the formula is the windspeed times the sine of the angle of difference. Calculating it out, at 60 degrees, that's 86.6%, which at 21 knots comes out to 18.1 knots crosswind component. If you were to say it was slightly less than the full 21, you'd be pretty close.
At 30 degrees, the estimation is dead on (three sixths equals one half, and the sine of 30 degrees is .5). At smaller angles, at windspeeds we're likely to fly, the difference is minuscule - usually far less than a knot difference.
Frankly, I'd rather be off in my calculations by a couple of knots which is pretty inconsequential and not have to waste time dragging out a calculator or trying to look at some hard to read chart while also trying to fly the plane in what is difficult conditions even in the pattern.
As to the slip down final versus crab and kick, that's a religious argument similar to Piper versus Cessna.
In the small planes most of us fly, you HAVE to land in a slip (in a crosswind, that is) because if you don't, you'll put side loads on the landing gear and possibly damage them or worse, lose control. If you touch down in a crab, the wheels are facing a different direction from the direction the plane was flying and the direction you want to go. So a lot of instructors prefer the slip down final method because that allows you to set up the slip well beforehand, and doesn't require changing the positioning (or controls) of the airplane at the last moment.
On the other hand, flying a long slip can be uncomfortable for passengers, and a slip is often more difficult to maintain than a crab. So some instructors prefer to teach their students to crab and then "kick" at the very end.
Personally, I think experienced pilots can do whichever they prefer, but I tend to think that having students change the configuration of the plane shortly before touching down is a recipe for disaster as well as making it harder for a student to learn a normally difficult skill.
For some reason, when learning to fly, I just tended to fly a crab until short final and would then slip at that point - sort of the best of both worlds, allowing enough time to settle into a proper slip, but while still having the comfort and ease of a crab most of the way.
Finally, it is probably the camera angle, but it looks like the plane was WAY off the extended centerline on approach.
im at 170 hrs in the 172 and getting close to cpl flight test. my airport runway is short and narrow with gustings winds and strong cross winds. its a very difficult airport to land. this is a great learning video. thank you thank you thank you so so much. im roger
Good vid...I always teach dutch rolls before crosswind landings. Teaches the student how to keep the airplane moving straight with rudder and aileron positioned off center. Good way to teach slips too. Being cross controlled is awkward for most new pilots. By the way..I don't see xwind take offs being similar in any way. The second you leave the ground you should concentrate on level wings and crabbing. I ALWAYS teach wing low landings in xwind....you should never take off with a wing low...kills lift when you need it most
I needed you as my CFI - so far have spent $$$ on 3 hrs of instruction on x wind and never once did my instructor allow me to just hold off over the runway and play with the side-slip to get comfortable!
You're such an excellent instructor...makes me really want to come out there some day for a few lessons.
Ailerons have 3 chores;
1) make the bank to TURN the plane (99% of our flying)
2) approaching the runway: makes the BANK that stops xwind drift.
3) ON the runway: provides the ADVERSE YAW that aids rudder in directional control to brake speed.
This really helped... after watching these two videos I went up and did some perfect landings today!
MAN! I love this stuff! I always learn so much! I want you to be my instructor! Love the camera position on this one too, you can see everything going on in and out of the cockpit, so it really helps to understand what’s happening. Thanks for your work on this stuff.
You guys were using too much flaps for 18kts Xwind. Should’ve been at flaps 10, maybe 20 max. At flaps 30 it’s beyond the max demonstrated limit, would be much easier with less flaps.
I just keep a calculator in my bag. Often it’s quicker then the e6b. Just enter 21sin(60) and done 18.18kts with 1.82kts to spare to the 20kt demonstrated max with 10 degrees flaps. Can do the same thing for headwind but use cos instead of sin.
Dont need a Nav Comp to calculate x/w. Angula difference + 20 (constant from the sine curve) = % of wind that is crossed. In your case 60 + 20 = 80%... of 21 kts... in my head 17kts.. easy. Will always be within 1-2 kts & you can do the numbers on final whilst getting hammered by wind. Anything normally over 80% is going to result in the same technique as %100 x/w anyhow... I fi d this method very easy to teach... Cheers
Great instruction as always . I had to laugh when I saw the "Elevator Out Of Service" then the sign pointing to the stairs as "Fitness Centre" :)
haha, yeah that's about right. It was a little marginal there
Great Video Jason! I'm hoping you'll answer me or some other CFI's can give me some advice here. I've just returned to flying after a four year break. I'm doing great and really enjoy flying again and putting in quite a few flights after my BFR. I'm trying to set a xwind, and gusts personal max and it seems you get so many different opinions from everyone on what is safe and what is not. Some (including the CFI I did my BFR with) have stated that they would never attempt to land a 172 in even a 15kt direct crosswind. He even claimed a 172 is not good at handling much more...Here you seemed to have done it with direct at around 18 with higher gusts. Others, like yourself, seem to do it often. I know you can technically fly it down and sideslip as long as you don't run out of rudder.... Any advice based on all of that and what I should set my limits at to begin? Thank you so much...
slip that not means touching one wheel firts that is a mith for generations.(Where says that'? is no manual on Google,
A good slip and you touch all main wheels at the same Time.
I do on my Pitts, on DC 3,s, C46, 737, 727. E190, etc.. to A320 family, where I teach
Try it, I know sound strange, but thats the way it is
Regards
Love it! High winds require less flaps. I wish I could fly with you for my CFI Unfortunately I moved out of California five years ago.
Great crosswind example. Thanks.
As a student pilot it amazes me how fast ATCs speak. I just listened to the ATC at the Brown Field SD who spoke so fast the made 3 corrections on one transmission. 2 planes collided! 😟
If you don't have a good approach, you can't have a good landing. Your landing starts at the end of the downwind. If you have it solid starting there, your landing has a much better chance
Good informative videos, but ditch the selfie stick. Focus on things that will move the video along. Just a comment, no disrespect intended.
Wow ... subscribed! Love your style, great video.
Ha ha! Decades ago my instructor covered up the instruments. I had a bad habit of keeping eyes in the plane and chasing the needles. I can hear him now telling me I'm a vfr student not an ifr student.
Better to use no flaps, or 10% flaps max? (Less stuff hanging out for the gusts to grab?!
I've watched plenty of these videos and I still think the theme sounds like the Burn Notice end credits theme.
Nice work!! You have a good instructor!!
You might want to switch to mirrored sunglasses.
Hi Jason! Love your channel. Keep doing what you do with passion and high professionalism as you 've been doing up to now! Looking forward to seeing the next one!
Can’t wait to think of it this way next I’m practicing slips
Honestly days like those are the best for learning, i did my training mostly during the winter and the short lessons learned during rainy gusty days stick in my mind more than anything. I like your way of teaching and the quality of your videos/lessons, keep up with the good work Cheers!
I am trying to get this the cross wind landing down, Student pilot.
You have control, I have control....?
Like...totally granular dude.
Great job. As always.
What’s that paper on the dashboard?
172nd comment... I win
Were these done with no flaps?
Great video. Another popular CFI TH-camr suggests getting rid of the flare in the landing phase. I don’t know, I’ve always been taught to use it. What do you think about that?
I think that works in certain planes but you're looking for trouble when you upgrade to something high performance. It's a technique that allows for no error whatsoever so I don't like to teach it. Invariably, folks who have learned that way come to me and say something like ... "what happened, I was upgrading to a 182 and went out to Tahoe ... and slammed my nosewheel into the runway."
Thanks Jason. Love the videos and podcasts. Keep it up. You brought back my passion for flying after 15 years off.
think more so of slow flight over the runway...which in many cases might only be a couple seconds
Making it look soooo easy 😅
thx for the video
Jason Miller, what flaps configuration did you have base, final, landing?
My instructor taught me to land with 20° of flap whenever landing with strong winds
Is that Carlsbad?
Excellent video of technique. Excellent audio/video quality. Excellent training technique. Great verbal support and teamwork on passes.
Awesome video..
Take away of this video, about that “Alignment” “Alignment” “Alignment” 🛬️✈️
Thank you!! I'm working toward my CFI, and I really appreciate learning from you. My CFI is awesome, but he doesn't have your experience level. Your lessons help fill the gaps in my training. Thank you!!
Today was my 2nd lesson learning landings. Last lesson, no winds, and landed 3 times with my instructor saying was some of the best first landings he's seen in a student (even though we both admitted I didn't actually know why or what I did to make it work). Today, 16kts crosswind, I was told to keep same speeds and flaps as normal...was frustratingly difficult and I did not manage to land on my own (2 go arounds, 1 with CFI help). I'll ask the CFI if we could practice low approaches and no flaps next time! Kudos Rob for not dripping sweat like I was, I mean not even a drop on your head!
You are the man!
Your point of getting students to establish the alignment is so critical.
Prior to full pursuit of my private pilot's license I was lucky enough to practice the mechanics of crosswind landings on an Redbird sim during Sun-n-Fun in '09, and '10 during their slow periods while working near their booth.
When I finally had the opportunity to pay for lessons, one of the last things my 1st CFI fixed, was my alignment, after I repeatedly demonstrated I was fully confident with my approach with crosswinds, but was still missing landings, even in calm or straight down the runway wind scenarios. Another student who flew with that CFI earlier that day I was finally corrected, informed me later on, the CFI fixed his alignment challenge the same day.
I was flabbergasted the CFI took over 3 months to address what I assert as a fundamental flaw with 2 students, and prior to that correction, I almost gave up on what had been a lifelong dream, because I never made the connection - yes I'm slow. I gave up on that CFI as my primary, but not the dream.
I love your work (Podcast subscriber for about 1 year), and will be a Patreon supporter in a few months.
Ooooh, I don't do a lot of crosswind landings, since our plane has a very sensitive nose gear (even more so than normal) and we want to avoid any sort of hard landings as much as possible.
Doing low approaches is a great idea, though. Next time I have a flight lesson scheduled and there's a good crosswind, I'll ask my instructor if we can do some low approaches instead of going x-country.
It wouldn't be fun if it was easy... Great video !
I’m a CFI out of INDY and I haven’t flown since COVID and I’m embarrassed to say I need instruction myself to get back to instructing 😩
I haven`t flown for years and not sure I can afford it now but enjoy flying vicariously through others experiences.
You are a good instructor Sir, and I appreciate watching your videos and helping me remember things that I forget. ( 1500 hr PVT- VFR Pilot)
Thank you!
The crosswind component isn’t a limit in the 172, BUT I agree I teach it and it’s our company limit.
I have just soloed and your videos help me a lot. But I am having trouble with airspace and Cessna 172S V-speeds any tips?
Very helpful. Thanks! Gusty crosswind factor days: 1. Come in a little faster, 2. Don’t be afraid to do a low approach to practice cross controls with current winds, and 3. Keep those control surface deflections in after touchdown
Great video
Excellent presentation... newer student pilot here, recently soloed but I don't have much heavy crosswind experience as yet. Yours and Chris Palmer's channels are about the best resources I've found online for simple but important tips and other information. Thanks for taking the time to put this stuff together.
I would say those students are blessed to have you instructing them. I had an excellent instructor back in 1988 at ILG. My suggestion if one can afford to pay for additional hours of this type of instruction it's worth every penny.
Awesome video this helped clarify things a lot for me. I'm a 5 hour ppl student and I just experience my first crosswind landing along with 3 touch-and-goes. Love your podcast too btw, had a 4 hour drive the other day and probably listened to 30 episodes the whole way.
Nice video!
Low approaches over the runway maintaining centreline in crosswind has been the best exercise for me building muscle memory with my feet. Of course i heard of it from TFP and asked my FI to try it out.
My brother pilot just told me about this channel and I am already hooked. I am almost done with my commercial multi and then getting my single add right after then to cfi and cfii. Can't wait to start teaching and looking forward to learning more with you.
I failed my checkride due to crosswind landings. This video really helped me. Nobody showed or told me to do low approaches for crosswind controls, to get a better feeling.
Thanks Jason. As always, your instructions are hard to beat. Crosswind operations can be handled as long as we know the feel of the plane and we have the finer points in mind.
Thanks.
very nice i love your videos. i have logged 14 hours so far. working on my landing as well (traffic pattern)
Jason, once again another great instructional video. You are a true professional and your teaching style is one CFI’s should work to replicate. Keep up the great work and thank you for having “The Heart of a Teacher”... hard to find instructors as dedicated as you.
Sense
Another great video! Very informative and helpful. Keep them coming, thanks Jason.
Low approaches are a great way to teach crosswind landings and often forgotten! Bravo Zulu!
Awesome instructional video, you're a great supportive instructor!
Thank you for the content packed videos Jason. I like your instruction focused approach with just enough inflight footage to keep pilots and non-pilots engaged. Welcome to KMYF by the way. Subscribed!
Ever since I started flight training in the great plains, high wind is constant, crosswinds nearly all the time. Great training
Great video guys. Thank y'all!
I don’t know know how much you feel that when flying the aircraft but that looked kinda rough. 🤮
What flight school do you teach at ? I would love to get an introductory flight.
Takeoff same as landing in reverse. I teach the same! Great video. I’ll send it to my students.
I like the idea of the low approach to allow the student to process the combination of aileron and rudder needed to maintain the center line and they don't have the pressure of trying to completely land the airplane. It's a lot to digest and allowing the focus on the first part of the process is a great idea. A lot of times we just get too much info for our brains to process and breaking it into chunks makes it a lot easier.
This information probably never expires no matter the experience level of the pilot.
so useful, all my crosswind landings this year have been just awful!
Superb Learning video. Thank you for posting.
I wish I had been introduced to crosswind landings that way. It would have reduced the stress.
Thanks for these vids, definitely been helping my landings a ton. One of my better landing i turned base to final a little early and had a high final with a 60 degree cross wind into a forward slip and nailed it right down
Great derails and word chose while you walk the student thru each step
Super helpful video, even for those who have flown for a bit. Bravo!
Thanks for a great crosswind lesson! I watched it twice! thanks!