Thanks for another great idea. Here's another trick that I've used with some success. Place a thin amount of modeling clay on the concave side and press down with wiggling motion, slowly working out the clay until only the ends of the strip are contacting, then turn on the chuck. If done properly the clay will support the concave center and prevent it from pulling down. Grind the convex side with plenty of coolant then turn over and finish the concave surface. The clay must be firm enough not to squeeze out when the chuck is energized.
Wax might work as well as long as it's stiff enough not to squeeze out. Another idea; place a piece of wax paper on chuck before flipping part over to prevent scratches when removing from chuck. This works best on manual chucks with residual magnetism. Keep them grinding tips coming.
A good trick! I'm starting to learn grinding. I also noticed that after a sheet of paper the detail is smoother. Discovered quite by accident when trying not to scratch the magnetic plate with parts after milling. (Of course, I knock down the ledges with a flat stone, but it's better anyway). It is a pity that I have a mechanical magnetic plate and I can not adjust the force of the clamp, but if necessary I will try to put more / less paper. Thank you again for sharing your experience. I study with great pleasure. Sincerely, Michael
that is good basic stuff for a small and thick part like that but for large thin plates you cant do that method if they truly need to be flat. I would have ground it sort of flat to rough it out then used the mag parrallel method and ground it flat closer than an indicator can indicate. I will do a video at some point.
Probably new. All of my equipment has been purchased new thus far. I am afraid that my ignorance will l lead me to buy a used piece of equipment that is either unsalvageable for the accuracy I would like to get to or would be really expensive to get it there.
Unless I know the surface grinder or can take test cuts on it I tend to buy them new. So many things can go wrong on a surface grinder and it may be the reason it is being sold. Check out the Acer. Ours was a little over $7K with the variable magnet. Steve
I used to float grind (magnet off) hardened A2 die plates that came off of the wire machine. I would put a rail fence on the left end of the mag chuck and butt the die plate up against a parallel and the end rail fence. The plate CAN NOT get hot while grinding or you'll risk an exploding wheel and possibly personally injury. I always ran coolant when float grinding. Once the plate is dead flat, you can suck it down with magnet on and just grind to clean up.
I'll share a trick with you. I shared this with another content creator and he stopped responding to me. Glue the part to a piece of paper with Elmer's glue. Wait for it to cure. Then put it on the mag and grind it. Obviously you have to take very light cuts to prevent heat distortion.
May I suggest that for the machining portions of your videos where you are not in the frame, lower the audio volume or replace it with some mild background music? Along with that, add your necessary voice over narration. There's a reason so many of the most popular TH-cam shop channels do this, it makes for a much more enjoyable viewing. I like your content and approach, and I'm hoping your video composing skills will rise to match your machining! More, please!
Hi somebody else, Thanks for the suggestions. We have been working on some of these things in later videos. We are learning as we go and it is helpful to have good constructive criticisms from our viewers. One viewer suggested a Lavender mike. That is a bit pricey but it is on our wish list. On the later videos we have muted the sound as you suggested on the machining operations. Adam has been trying different things with the video too. Until we find the right recipe you may see some differences from one video to another as Adam tries new things. Steve
Grinding steel flat is always a challenge for beginners. The most efective method is to indicate amount of crown and place that much shim under it, turn the magnet on and grind the steel flat. Much safer because magnet is on full power. You can use steel shim stock and celophane that is .0005" thick, and I have found that I can get something flat in the free state, flat within 1 or 2 tenths very easily.
I agree, this is the way I learned to grind flat also. Cellophane is a grinder hands friend. Using this method makes quicker, and safer work of the job also.
Just saw this and very impressive. I too have a big surface grinder that I hope to dig out and get set-up, but how thin does the material have to be to use the paper towel trick?
Hi Razor, You can use that technique for any thickness that pulls the bow out with the magnetic chuck. Make sure you use the right wheel and that the chuck is holding enough that the part will not fly off. Steve
It all depends on the part. If I am grinding to a shoulder I like to start at the shoulder and work away from it to maintain the best part of the wheel at the shoulder and not the wear cutting edge. If it is just a flat surface it doesn't matter for roughing. On some grinders for finishing you may want to cut in one direction as some cut a little different when reversing direction. My grinder does not have this issue so I go both directions most of the time.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc yes, I do this as well. Sorry, I had thought you do this in the video and was curious on why so. Love the videos btw. You really don’t know how much I take away from your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! Greatly appreciated!
Hey Steve not sure if you can help me but I’m trying to locate a specific type of wheel. I dont know what its made of and there is nothing on the wheel to tell me what it is… its on my Baldor polisher at work and i need replacement wheels badly. They are kinda soft not like felt more like silicon looks and feels almost like rough leather. They are white about 10” at least and about 3” wide. The wheel has a large arbor size. When i use it it polishes metal rally well no grade marks.. if i put something sharp into it the it will groove easily. Please help me I’m exhausted from searching for them
@@Billrovid I believe so but that may just be the bonding material different manufactures use or it may be the difference between Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide wheels. I am not sure on that.
Mr Barton, I am attempting this technique that you illustrate in this video. It seems like no matter what I do I am unable to get the bow out of my part. The only difference between our two setups is that I do not have a variable magnet (and I dont have the experience you do). I have tried the paper towel, shims, crisscrossing to no avail. Any ideas on what to try, maybe I am missing something? Part is 5"x5" x .218" thick P20 steel around 30-40 HRC. Thanks in advance, and love watching your videos
Hi Paolo, There could be many things going on. How much bow? The part is thick enough that the magnet should not be a variable. Are you using coolant? If not, and the center part of the grind is low then my first guess would be a heat build up from the engagement of the grinding wheel on the part. What wheel are you using? I need More details in order to help. Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thanks for the speedy reply, The bow is approximately .004". I am using flood coolant and a Norton 5SG 46H wheel. The max reading I get is when I put my dial on one corner and push on the opposite corner. Thanks, PQ
@@paoloquattrociocchi7096 Wow! That is a lot! If you grind a different type of steel that is harder do you get the bow too? Have you been able to get other parts flat on the same grinder recently? What depth of cut are you taking on the last couple of passes and do you redress the wheel before trying a finish cut? Is the coolant oil based our synthetic? Have you trued up the chuck recently?
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc We rarely grind any hard steel at this shop. The chuck has been trued within the last week and has been making flat parts within about .0002". I always redress the wheel before a finish cut and try to take no more than .001" for rough and maybe .0002-.0003" for finish. Coolant is oil based
@@paoloquattrociocchi7096 Sounds like you are doing everything right. Are the sparks the same and consistence across the part taking a blank pass? I have never ground P20 that I am aware of but a quick internet search shows that stress can be a problem with this steel especially with machined cavities. Also, it looks like this steel varies a lot form one producer to another. When I grind cold rolled steel, many times I can actually see the stress working out of it as I grind and it is near impossible to get it flat until it has been stressed relieved. This is a tough one the only other thing I might try is a new diamond in the dresser but that is a long shot. Maybe for kicks try a green silicon carbide wheel with light cuts. Other than that I woulds be at a loss without being there.
Thanks for sharing, im grinding steels around 40 hrc, would you suggest choosing pink or blue wheel? And what grid? (My default is 46) my machine is jones and shipman 540. Thanks.
Hi Fischer977, What types of steel are you grinding? Are you grinding for finish, size, flatness or a combination? Are you grinding just flat surfaces or are you grinding to shoulders or both? Your default 46 grit is a good all around wheel, what hardness is the wheel? H-J hardness is good for most grinding. Are your parts thick or thin or both? Are you using coolant? If you can give me more information I would be able to give a better answer. Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. I use mold steels, 2311 2312 4340 2316 stavax df2 mainly. Mostly large chunks but sometimes thin parts. I use it both for flatness and finish. I never used the side of the wheel and i don't know anything about the hardness. Those who sell them probably do not ask the right questions. I prefer using coolant, mainly for my health. Im considering grinding even aluminium plates, is it possible with the same wheel? Thank you Steve.
Hi Fischer977, The hardness of the bonding agent of the wheel will be a letter after the grit number like 46I or 46J. A is the softest and Z is the hardest. Generally the softer the part the harder you want the bonding agent of the wheel and the harder the part the softer bonding. I think you are on the right track with a 46 grit wheel I would stick with a 46J or a little harder and go with the ruby and more open structure this wheel allow less dressing. Aluminum is hard to grind and will load the wheel very quickly so you will have to dress the wheel more often. I use water soluble oil based coolant. I put a cup of straight undiluted coolant by the grinder and use a paint brush and apply a thick coat right on the Aluminum then grind and reapply with every pass. Do this without running the grinder coolant so the you don't dilute the straight coolant you applied with the brush. This helps the wheel from loading and you will have to dress the wheel less often and you will get a better finish. Steve
Hi Fischer977, Look at the 6:06 mark on this video th-cam.com/video/gjz0Zt76GJ4/w-d-xo.html I would use that wheel in a J hardness to start with and see how that works. If you are just grinding surfaces that you can come all the way off the part with your wheel this one should work fine. Out of habit you will be tempted to dress your wheel too often. Only dress when your finish starts suffering. Even though this wheel cost more it will be offset by less dressing if used correctly and in the end more economical. On Aluminum I might use the white 46,2 J or harder wheel that you see me holding right before the 6:06 mark. In fact, this is one of the nicest all around wheels I have ever used. Also, if you haven't seen it yet check out this video th-cam.com/video/yK3hWNYs6gI/w-d-xo.html It may give you some good tips as well. Steve
The thin plate that I ground flat was D2 tool steel at 60-62 RC.
Steve
Thanks for another great idea. Here's another trick that I've used with some success. Place a thin amount of modeling clay on the concave side and press down with wiggling motion, slowly working out the clay until only the ends of the strip are contacting, then turn on the chuck. If done properly the clay will support the concave center and prevent it from pulling down. Grind the convex side with plenty of coolant then turn over and finish the concave surface. The clay must be firm enough not to squeeze out when the chuck is energized.
Hi Ellie,
Thanks for the idea. I wonder how wax would work using your idea.
Steve
Wax might work as well as long as it's stiff enough not to squeeze out. Another idea; place a piece of wax paper on chuck before flipping part over to prevent scratches when removing from chuck. This works best on manual chucks with residual magnetism. Keep them grinding tips coming.
A good trick! I'm starting to learn grinding. I also noticed that after a sheet of paper the detail is smoother. Discovered quite by accident when trying not to scratch the magnetic plate with parts after milling. (Of course, I knock down the ledges with a flat stone, but it's better anyway).
It is a pity that I have a mechanical magnetic plate and I can not adjust the force of the clamp, but if necessary I will try to put more / less paper.
Thank you again for sharing your experience. I study with great pleasure.
Sincerely, Michael
You're welcome Michael.
Steve
Awesome tip, thanks for taking the time!
Hi Skyler,
Your welcome. Thanks for commenting. It is encouraging to know others are benefiting from the videos.
that is good basic stuff for a small and thick part like that but for large thin plates you cant do that method if they truly need to be flat. I would have ground it sort of flat to rough it out then used the mag parrallel method and ground it flat closer than an indicator can indicate. I will do a video at some point.
Great explanation. My next major purchase is going to be a surface grinder. This video only make me more excited.
Thank! What brand you looking at? New or used?
Steve
Probably new. All of my equipment has been purchased new thus far. I am afraid that my ignorance will l lead me to buy a used piece of equipment that is either unsalvageable for the accuracy I would like to get to or would be really expensive to get it there.
Unless I know the surface grinder or can take test cuts on it I tend to buy them new. So many things can go wrong on a surface grinder and it may be the reason it is being sold. Check out the Acer. Ours was a little over $7K with the variable magnet.
Steve
I used to float grind (magnet off) hardened A2 die plates that came off of the wire machine. I would put a rail fence on the left end of the mag chuck and butt the die plate up against a parallel and the end rail fence. The plate CAN NOT get hot while grinding or you'll risk an exploding wheel and possibly personally injury. I always ran coolant when float grinding. Once the plate is dead flat, you can suck it down with magnet on and just grind to clean up.
I'll share a trick with you. I shared this with another content creator and he stopped responding to me.
Glue the part to a piece of paper with Elmer's glue. Wait for it to cure. Then put it on the mag and grind it. Obviously you have to take very light cuts to prevent heat distortion.
i have used super glue before with good results.
I'd grind one side in the vise first or double sticking tape...without worry that it might fly away. I also ground parts without magnet but boxed in.
Great tip & video, thanks!
Hi Robert,
Thanks for commenting.
Steve
May I suggest that for the machining portions of your videos where you are not in the frame, lower the audio volume or replace it with some mild background music? Along with that, add your necessary voice over narration.
There's a reason so many of the most popular TH-cam shop channels do this, it makes for a much more enjoyable viewing.
I like your content and approach, and I'm hoping your video composing skills will rise to match your machining! More, please!
Hi somebody else,
Thanks for the suggestions. We have been working on some of these things in later videos. We are learning as we go and it is helpful to have good constructive criticisms from our viewers. One viewer suggested a Lavender mike. That is a bit pricey but it is on our wish list. On the later videos we have muted the sound as you suggested on the machining operations. Adam has been trying different things with the video too. Until we find the right recipe you may see some differences from one video to another as Adam tries new things.
Steve
Grinding steel flat is always a challenge for beginners. The most efective method is to indicate amount of crown and place that much shim under it, turn the magnet on and grind the steel flat. Much safer because magnet is on full power. You can use steel shim stock and celophane that is
.0005" thick, and I have found that I can get something flat in the free state, flat within 1 or 2 tenths very easily.
Hi old magician,
Thanks for the information. I have used this method many times with success as well.
Steve
I agree, this is the way I learned to grind flat also. Cellophane is a grinder hands friend. Using this method makes quicker, and safer work of the job also.
awesome content, thanks again.
Thanks dj,
Steve
Just saw this and very impressive. I too have a big surface grinder that I hope to dig out and get set-up, but how thin does the material have to be to use the paper towel trick?
Hi Razor,
You can use that technique for any thickness that pulls the bow out with the magnetic chuck. Make sure you use the right wheel and that the chuck is holding enough that the part will not fly off.
Steve
Very interesting
Thanks.
when roughing out material, do you just grind in one direction and do skim passes in both directions? if so, why?
It all depends on the part. If I am grinding to a shoulder I like to start at the shoulder and work away from it to maintain the best part of the wheel at the shoulder and not the wear cutting edge. If it is just a flat surface it doesn't matter for roughing. On some grinders for finishing you may want to cut in one direction as some cut a little different when reversing direction. My grinder does not have this issue so I go both directions most of the time.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc yes, I do this as well. Sorry, I had thought you do this in the video and was curious on why so. Love the videos btw. You really don’t know how much I take away from your videos. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! Greatly appreciated!
Hey Steve not sure if you can help me but I’m trying to locate a specific type of wheel. I dont know what its made of and there is nothing on the wheel to tell me what it is… its on my Baldor polisher at work and i need replacement wheels badly. They are kinda soft not like felt more like silicon looks and feels almost like rough leather. They are white about 10” at least and about 3” wide. The wheel has a large arbor size. When i use it it polishes metal rally well no grade marks.. if i put something sharp into it the it will groove easily. Please help me I’m exhausted from searching for them
It sounds like a convolute grinding wheel something like this www.mscdirect.com/product/details/78643483
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc This looks exactly like it but it’s gray know if these come in white
@@Billrovid I believe so but that may just be the bonding material different manufactures use or it may be the difference between Aluminum oxide and silicon carbide wheels. I am not sure on that.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thank you so much for your help my guy
@@Billrovid You are welcome.
What is best? A machine like that or a mill?
Both are best. They have completely different yet complementary functions. If I could only have one it would be the mill.
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc thank you
Mr Barton,
I am attempting this technique that you illustrate in this video. It seems like no matter what I do I am unable to get the bow out of my part. The only difference between our two setups is that I do not have a variable magnet (and I dont have the experience you do). I have tried the paper towel, shims, crisscrossing to no avail. Any ideas on what to try, maybe I am missing something? Part is 5"x5" x .218" thick P20 steel around 30-40 HRC.
Thanks in advance, and love watching your videos
Hi Paolo,
There could be many things going on. How much bow? The part is thick enough that the magnet should not be a variable. Are you using coolant? If not, and the center part of the grind is low then my first guess would be a heat build up from the engagement of the grinding wheel on the part. What wheel are you using? I need More details in order to help.
Steve
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc Thanks for the speedy reply, The bow is approximately .004". I am using flood coolant and a Norton 5SG 46H wheel. The max reading I get is when I put my dial on one corner and push on the opposite corner.
Thanks, PQ
@@paoloquattrociocchi7096 Wow! That is a lot! If you grind a different type of steel that is harder do you get the bow too? Have you been able to get other parts flat on the same grinder recently? What depth of cut are you taking on the last couple of passes and do you redress the wheel before trying a finish cut? Is the coolant oil based our synthetic? Have you trued up the chuck recently?
@@SolidRockMachineShopInc We rarely grind any hard steel at this shop. The chuck has been trued within the last week and has been making flat parts within about .0002". I always redress the wheel before a finish cut and try to take no more than .001" for rough and maybe .0002-.0003" for finish. Coolant is oil based
@@paoloquattrociocchi7096 Sounds like you are doing everything right. Are the sparks the same and consistence across the part taking a blank pass? I have never ground P20 that I am aware of but a quick internet search shows that stress can be a problem with this steel especially with machined cavities. Also, it looks like this steel varies a lot form one producer to another. When I grind cold rolled steel, many times I can actually see the stress working out of it as I grind and it is near impossible to get it flat until it has been stressed relieved. This is a tough one the only other thing I might try is a new diamond in the dresser but that is a long shot. Maybe for kicks try a green silicon carbide wheel with light cuts. Other than that I woulds be at a loss without being there.
~0.02mm 2...4Ra
Thanks for sharing, im grinding steels around 40 hrc, would you suggest choosing pink or blue wheel? And what grid? (My default is 46) my machine is jones and shipman 540. Thanks.
Hi Fischer977,
What types of steel are you grinding? Are you grinding for finish, size, flatness or a combination? Are you grinding just flat surfaces or are you grinding to shoulders or both? Your default 46 grit is a good all around wheel, what hardness is the wheel? H-J hardness is good for most grinding. Are your parts thick or thin or both? Are you using coolant? If you can give me more information I would be able to give a better answer.
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. I use mold steels, 2311 2312 4340 2316 stavax df2 mainly. Mostly large chunks but sometimes thin parts. I use it both for flatness and finish. I never used the side of the wheel and i don't know anything about the hardness. Those who sell them probably do not ask the right questions. I prefer using coolant, mainly for my health.
Im considering grinding even aluminium plates, is it possible with the same wheel?
Thank you Steve.
Hi Fischer977,
The hardness of the bonding agent of the wheel will be a letter after the grit number like 46I or 46J. A is the softest and Z is the hardest. Generally the softer the part the harder you want the bonding agent of the wheel and the harder the part the softer bonding. I think you are on the right track with a 46 grit wheel I would stick with a 46J or a little harder and go with the ruby and more open structure this wheel allow less dressing.
Aluminum is hard to grind and will load the wheel very quickly so you will have to dress the wheel more often. I use water soluble oil based coolant. I put a cup of straight undiluted coolant by the grinder and use a paint brush and apply a thick coat right on the Aluminum then grind and reapply with every pass. Do this without running the grinder coolant so the you don't dilute the straight coolant you applied with the brush. This helps the wheel from loading and you will have to dress the wheel less often and you will get a better finish.
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. Thanks steve! So ...if i sumn up your guidelines, you suggest taking the ruby (is the pink one??) 46j ?
Hi Fischer977,
Look at the 6:06 mark on this video th-cam.com/video/gjz0Zt76GJ4/w-d-xo.html I would use that wheel in a J hardness to start with and see how that works. If you are just grinding surfaces that you can come all the way off the part with your wheel this one should work fine. Out of habit you will be tempted to dress your wheel too often. Only dress when your finish starts suffering. Even though this wheel cost more it will be offset by less dressing if used correctly and in the end more economical. On Aluminum I might use the white 46,2 J or harder wheel that you see me holding right before the 6:06 mark. In fact, this is one of the nicest all around wheels I have ever used. Also, if you haven't seen it yet check out this video th-cam.com/video/yK3hWNYs6gI/w-d-xo.html It may give you some good tips as well.
Steve
Change your rotation on your coolant pump
Hi par4par72,
We changed the pump to a different one already and you can hardly hear it run.
Steve
Hi par4par72,
The coolant pump was running in the correct direction. It was just a cheap unit.
Steve
wow I just noticed its an acer supra 618.. I have a balanceable brand new hub for it I will sell you for $100..
Hi Jeff,
I just bought 2 brand new hubs at $60 each of ebay right before the Bash.
Steve