I was a Varsity and AA Goalie 10 years ago back in high school in the states. I was very close with one of my coaches from a young age and one thing he did that was invaluable was sticking around after games with me and watching more advanced and older players play and just talking through strategy and game mechanics. A goalie should think the game just as good if not better than anyone else on the ice. There are a lot of goalies that end up becoming coaches for a reason, and I would personally compare it to seeing hockey games like an RTS, top-down video game. But that may be because I love Age of Empires.
As a fellow goalie and RTS lover I support this message. I help out at our local ball hockey league with the younger kids starting out and I tell them the same things.
Agreed and I have 0 problem with that mindset personally...let them pass on good players so we can get them instead (TOO MANY small players can be a problem in a team, sure...but a few? no problem there..just the fact that Hutson had to wait for the 2nd round to get picked is INSANE to me)
Ok. But when’s the last time you’ve seen a 5’8 goalie being drafted and given a chance? Doesn’t happen. The days of Andy Moog, Chris Terreri, Healy, Irbe, Millen, Cloutier, Beaupre, Vanbiesbrook … gone.
@@Moobeus Montembeault posted a .939 and 1.42 for Team Canada at the World Championships. He'll secure the starter spot if Hockey Canada has removed its head from its ass since the WJC
It's amazing that Harry Lumley a goalie who started his career during WWII, is still top 3 all time among Ontario goaltenders in wins. Truly an underrated all-time great, considering how he played when 60-70 games were the season length.
@@paulbaker9086 Still quite high. Considering he's in the 300 club, when he played for one great team in Detroit, a terrible Chicago, a bad to mediocre Toronto, and a mediocre to bad Boston.
Really interesting. As a casual fan, would love a part 2 about the rise of Russian goalies in the last 10 years - Shesty, Vasilevsky, Bob, Sorokin, et al. Must have to do with coaching, but maybe different youth training programs or philosophies than Canada?
Patrick Roy famously played for a terrible junior team. 6,28 GAA / .842 in 54 games (13W, 35L), 4..4 GAA .873 in 61 games (No W/L on DB) and 5.55 GAA 8.72 (16W 25L)
being short is a ridiculous barrier to entry for a goalie; I do understand that if you are taller you will naturally cover more net, especially with the butterfly and RVH being the standard style for goaltending - but that doesn't mean you can't be good. Yes it does make the position more difficult (post-post coverage, needing to stay up for longer before dropping into the butterfly, etc.), but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Shorter goalies do have to work harder at things like reading the play and lateral speed, but if they can do that then they can be just as successful as any "tall" goalie. Saros and Wolf are among my favorite goaltenders; they are always a treat to watch. P.S. slightly biased because I'm a short goalie myself :P All that being said, I think that Canada just isn't organized enough; everything is private lessons and there really doesn't seem to be any open knowledge sharing - how are you supposed to grow if you are gated by both money and knowledge?
Great video Shannon. As a goalie, I really appreciate this one. I’m American, but very disappointed in the lack of turnout from Quebec. Brodeur and Roy are my favorites. My son has decided to take up the pads as well. He’s playing AA hockey. I’ve told him before. The best thing is playing on a middle of the road team. You can’t develop making 4 saves a game. Nor can you develop being consistently shelled.
Back in the day ('70's) when I played in goal, the equipment even then was expensive. We could barely afford the pants, sticks & goaltender skates, but the team usually bought & owned the pads, gloves & birdcage mask, which were loaned to the goalie.
Credentials: 40 years playing goal and 12 years coaching junior (not Junior) hockey. There are lots of resources out there, including good stuff issued by Hockey Canada. There are tons of goalie coaches and whole hockey organizations that do goalie training across their age and skill levels. On the downside, most team coaches do not integrate their goalies into practices well by setting up a blend of time and space for them to do their own drills as well as be involved in team game situations. And the goalie-specific game video review and breakdown is virtually non-existent. The number of Canadian goalies in the NHL will never be what it once was; there is a far greater international talent pool now. Added to that is the fact that most countries realized earlier than we did that a heavy focus on quality goalie training was a way to steal games against the powerhouses like Canada. Finland was probably the first in this area and Russia jumped on it as well when they started to lose consistently to Canada and the US. These things are often cyclical. We'll develop some star goalies soon. No need to panic but yeah, things are never going to be the way they once were.
I would 100% agree about modern hockey practices stifling creativity. I see my daughters skate around buckets for an hour. No scrimmage. Like, are we teaching them hockey or the bucket slolom?
My friends and I were discussing the current state of Canadian goalies the other day. We were reminiscing about how, in the past, we were stacked with talent; Brodeur, Roy, Joseph, Belfour, Luongo... there were just so many great Canadian goalies. Now, when I'm asked to name an active Canadian goalie who stands out as exceptional, I can't think of a single one. There are some decent ones, but none of the elite level that we used to have.
I feel the present issue with the quality of Canadian goalies relative to those from the other 3 countries will make itself known in the 4 Nations Cup, and not in a good way.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s, playing goalie, in Montreal, Plante and the Gump and Vachon. Add Charlie Hodge were idols. Hall, Crozier, Bower and Sawchuk also Canucks. Esposito and Giacomin were outlier US born, yet great. Those were the pioneers of the NHL, pre-expansion.
It has become that because of the speed of shots, goaltending has become partially a statistical problem where surface will get you an advantage. And it's not just Canadian goalies. They're all big now.
One big one. In Quebec in the early 90s, EVERYONE wanted to be Roy and then Brodeur. Fleury is good but he's never been like the top dog everyone wanted to be... Up to the trade, EVERYONE had a Roy Jersey and it got a ton of kids wanting to be Goalies... playing street hockey and then ice hockey... We don't really have that anymore... We lost that guy who everyone wanted to be as kids and its not as popular anymore.
Love the sarcasm about Hutson at 10:13 lol ...ALL the teams passed on him at least once, should have AT LEAST been a top 10 overall. EDIT: Oh, Caufield right after...yup
Holtby was thought of as the next to take the reigns from Price and Fleury’s generation but he fell of quickly. Carter Hart was touted as the next Canadian goalie but we all know why he’s gone now. It’s crazy how Canada produced Luongo, Fleury, and Price, who were drafted in the early first round. This is almost unheard of nowadays
American but the whole you have to play this way is definitely real. One of my coaches one time went to our goalie and told him that he would rather him not make the save he made to focus on posistioning. I was like what about Hasek, and he just said no. Made absoutly zero sense like are you trying to lose the game.
interesting to hear that point about how they learn all the technical stuff, without focusing on in game experience. I was wondering why a lot of young goalies, in the NHL seem to look so athletic, and precise in their movements, but then make really silly mistakes.
More parity at the international level was bound to happen. Equipment was crazy expensive when I was young, so I can imagine how much worse it has become. At least there are more equipment places that you can trade in old gear than decades ago.
About the height of goalies, it's even worst than that. I've heard from Stephane Waite(ex Carey Price's trainers among others), that teams actively give shots and try out to big goalie even if they are much worst than shorter ones because only they can be good enough for the NHL workload, it's an argument that Waite actually supports! He treats Juuse Saros as the abnormally that should never happen again, might as well not try. I find it similar to the NFL QB situation, where all players at high level playing the position have to have good run game, even if they are terrible passers, NFL teams even recruit poor thrower with good running game in hope they develop the next Josh Allen, and then we wonder why there are so many mediocre passing QB in the NFL.
It’s not a ‘workload’ question, which would be related to physical fitness. It’s related more to the changed style of goaltending. Nowadays, with goalies playing a good portion of games on their knees, a taller goalie’s upper body will cover more of the upper net (though not enough, considering all of the roofed goals, and goals off the goalie’s head).
I wouldn't worry about it. It is just some NHL exhibition tournament. They never ever bring up Rendezvouz '87, why should you take this one seriously?? Happened nearly 40 years ago, never mentioned again.
This was fascinating. Thanks for doing this. Makes me think of baseball (Yes, I'm American.), and the catcher position amongst American-born players. In the 70s and 80s, the majority of the best catchers were American. Now, they're Latin-born players. Makes you think.
@@jgp7414 Thank you for your question! My opinion, and it is merely my opinion, is that the white text kind of dissipares against the (often) white in the thumbnail. Hence my question to Shannon. 🙂
@@Svarthok I actually agree, I think having white on white just makes people ignore the text most of the time. If the text were an eye-catching color that would help a few more people come in for sure, I agree with you!
Shannon I would argue players went through the same thing with the "size" thing. Theo Fleury, Johnny Gaudreau, Martin St. Louis all spring to mind. "Oh look at their size, can you imagine a guy that side playing alongside 6'7 etc". I think what happened is the NHL started going big because Chara was an elite athlete. But we hit a point in the NHL where there are plenty of huge players in the NHL, but those smaller guys cause them to have fits. Many of those larger players aren't really good at shutting down the opposition. I mean I watched Tyler Myers as a Jet's fan for years; the guy should be able to keep the front of a net clear; but it's not in his skillset. And that was one of many second coming of Chara prospects. How we scout players has changed; I can track a 6'4 guy that doesn't look like he's wheeling and see he's as quick as that 5'7 guy. Legs aren't moving as fast; due to stride length. Hard to argue with Usain Bolt being too tall when he's got the actual timings. Or Canada's own Andre De Grasse being too short, when he has the timings. I feel like scouting for players has really improved; it's less about size and more about results. Goalies on the other hand, what do you measure? A fantastic goalie can be on a horrible team; and a substandard goalie can be the reason a team is thought to be horrible. Wolf and Hellebuyck are both butterfly goalies; but their games couldn't be more different. Both very smart players but both have had to adapt their game to their bodies and their own instincts.
Too bad its too late to add McKenzie Blackwood to this list. Underrated Canadian goalie that shown he can play on good and bad teams. And now, more than ever is he showing how really good of a goalie he is, on the Avs
You're not wrong about Quebec born players being less prevalent or relevant today. It's mostly because our provincial institutions rested on their laurels and let the game fade away at the levels where it matters the most: with kids. That and the increasing popularity of soccer and other sports plus the high price of entry of hockey have led to the unacceptable decay of what used to be a great source of pride for our province
People forget about Carter Harts potential, (I’m totally aware of why he is not considered) if he lived up to expectations, this debate might not be happening bc well “Canada has Carter hart” (maybe like comparison to prime Ben bishop or smtg not too crazy but very solid)
10:37 just to play devils advocate physically being larger is a genuine objective advantage when your job is to stop things going into a place of fixed size. Size isn’t so objectively important for offence and defence since there are different types and styles.
Last year I was shocked that the Spirit's goalie was one of the better goalies with an .845 Jr hockey and NHL hockey are two completely different games. It's not surprising Canadian goalies struggle at the NHL
I honestly think it's going to take team Canada losing at a real prestigious tournament probably the Olympics, because of bad goaltending for the CHL and grass routes teams to start taking goaltending seriously. Wish it didn't have to be that way but that is the only way I could see the different levels of Canada hockey changing only through devastating lose(s).
Goalies on excellent teams need to be tested big time in practices with game like play and conditions. Unfortunately, at the youth hockey levels, goalies are an afterthought.
I still think Carter Hart would be the starter for team Canada for the 4 nations cup, had it not been for what he and others did for what they're currently suspended for/not signed/accused of at that juniors summer event. As it seems - a really terrible crime (if convicted, obviously), but my Flyers really suffer hockey wise because of it.
I love hockey. Which was tough in my early lives growing up in Las Vegas. After watching The Miracle on Ice I was hooked. While I love international tourney's, I would much rather NOT see this during the season. I don't want ANY big names on ANY teams hurt. This whole thing is silly. It's not even the best of the best. So many country's won't be there. Just wait for the Olympics or run a tourney in the off season and see who wants to go.
Canada doesn’t develop good goalies anymore because if you grew up playing semi competitive hockey you know these coaches don’t give a flying fuck about their goalies. It’s just oh go in the corner and take shots from the goalie coach dad who can’t even skate while we do our systems. European coaches actually care about their goalies from a young age and it’s showing
Just wanted to say I listen to hockey a lot on XM Radio and usually listen to Canadian radio station and lately I've been shocked how many of these guys/gals mispronounce players names. Do some homework folks.
Marc-André Fleury was right there and they just ignored him. he is 9-3-1 in 14 starts this season, .910 Save% and 2.54 GAA. Hockey Canada don't know what they are doing.
He's a backup, so he's more likely to play worse teams. I also just don't think they would name a backup to the team. I would have loved to see Flower on the team, but I don't know if he would have been a good choice.
@@chrisbelos2834 Especially in a year with less than Stellar goaltending, they need to have the best shot at getting a starter, and I don't think Fleury is that. I don't know if their selections are, either, especially leaving Thompson home, but they're not selecting a Backup.
Yes!! Quebec politicians crap on the Habs for not taking more Quebecois players but hockey development in the province has dropped off quite a bit in the last couple of decades. The Habs would love a Francophone star from Quebec but it is Quebec hockey that is messing it up
Hey Shannon. I really do appreciate this channel. Most of your insight is well thought out and presented (love the low tech white board). The "talking head" banter from the "experts" before, during, and after the game, is usually quite the turn off for me. So keep doing what you're doing. We need you. One thing that sometimes annoys me though, is the amount of time you sometimes take on quoting statistics. Today was an example of taking a lot of time for quoting BOTH numbers and percentages, before you started talking about your take on the topic. Similarly, game summaries could be abbreviated. Just my take. I could be in the minority here. 6 minutes of a 15 minute video were stats design to set the context on the topic. Keep the content in the board, but it doesn't all need to be quoted. All that info could have been condensed into less than a minute. Thus, leaving time for your take here on who you see as the potential game 1 starting goalies for all four teams. Love the show. But statistics don't always equal content. Have a nice day.
im amused a bit if there are 24 players on a team and 2 are goalies . then 8.44% of teams are goalies so imo if goalies are being drafted above 10% thats better than the d or fw. because that means 1.66% less d and fw are being taken? numvers are fun do more plz.
Roy inspired Quebeckers because he wore a Canadiens jersey as he won Cups and rewrote the record book. Just as Rocket Richard or Guy Lafleur did. Brodeur and Luongo by contrast didn't inspire anyone. In my opinion, the reason why there is a goaltending issue in Canada has to do with the state of the Montreal Canadiens over the past 30 years, and drafting rules. French Canadians don't get to play for the Canadiens, due to the draft. And the Canadiens have not lived up to their legacy. The best goaltending has historically come from Quebec, and hockey popularity has fallen.
Not at all overblown (or surprising) given the complete shit show that has been the last 2 World Junior tournaments; whether due to complacency, greed, etc. Hockey Canada's gotten incredibly incompetent. Now it's just a matter of much worse things have to get before they're forced into changing.
The height thing feels obvious to me. You simply fill more of the net by standing there. That being said, I think we see more 5-hole goals than we would with shorter goalies. I also think that you don't see similar comments from scouts about forwards and defense because it's harder to succeed at the junior level when you're shorter in those positions.
Maybe the Russians have the best 3 goalies in the league..Canadians are having problems beating what's out there now...Not shocking they want to play politics to keep the Russians out.
Great Canadian Pro Goalies are few and far between because…. #1 Cost of playing and traveling are through the roof. Equipment, rink/team fees, gasline/diesel are wayyyy higher than when I gave up back in 2002. Sadly the sport has become a “Sport for the 1% crowd”. #2. AAA Bantam/Midget, Junior A and Major Junior Team Management only care about how tall goalies are, meaning they want guys that are at least 6’ in the Bantam/Midget, and 6’4” - 6’6’’ in Junior A and Major Junior which leads to even less of a crop when it comes to the NHL. There are plenty of talented young goaltenders that are the size of Dustin Wolf or Juuse Saros that can skate and move around the net great, but are considered too small by the idiots that manage NHL teams. #3 Young guys these days would rather stare at their smartphone all day and become a youtuber or social media influencer for the big money rather than beat up their bodies for big money. I don’t see things changing anytime soon.
Quebec hockey is indeed in total decline, we barely develop good to elite NHLers anymore, a theorical Quebec province team of the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s could of been competitive or straight up dominant vs the ROC, not anymore. Ironically the QMJHL still develops loads of elite foreign talent, it seems that the sport locally isn’t as practiced as it used to be for multiple reasons, mainly $.
Marchessault, but not by a lot. Huberdeau is starting to wake up a little, Danault is decent at everything offensively or defensively, honorable mention to Mike Matheson because he has been a beast offensively in Montreal for the last 3 seasons. Guys like Vlasic, Perron, Fleury and Letang are also still active but way out of their Prime.
The issue isn’t that Canada doesn’t have good goalies it’s just team Canada didn’t pick any of them. Thompson, Talbot and Kuemper are all up there with the best and yet none were picked.
I was a Varsity and AA Goalie 10 years ago back in high school in the states. I was very close with one of my coaches from a young age and one thing he did that was invaluable was sticking around after games with me and watching more advanced and older players play and just talking through strategy and game mechanics. A goalie should think the game just as good if not better than anyone else on the ice. There are a lot of goalies that end up becoming coaches for a reason, and I would personally compare it to seeing hockey games like an RTS, top-down video game. But that may be because I love Age of Empires.
Total War and Company of Heroes for me
playing goalie is basically like command and conquer but you also do the splits
Just like baseball catchers becoming managers. Something about it.
As a fellow goalie and RTS lover I support this message. I help out at our local ball hockey league with the younger kids starting out and I tell them the same things.
As a habs fan I spit my drink when you said skaters don't have to be tall, yet Cole Caufield and Lane Hudson were passed on by so many teams
Agreed and I have 0 problem with that mindset personally...let them pass on good players so we can get them instead (TOO MANY small players can be a problem in a team, sure...but a few? no problem there..just the fact that Hutson had to wait for the 2nd round to get picked is INSANE to me)
Ok. But when’s the last time you’ve seen a 5’8 goalie being drafted and given a chance? Doesn’t happen. The days of Andy Moog, Chris Terreri, Healy, Irbe, Millen, Cloutier, Beaupre, Vanbiesbrook … gone.
@@Jaclyn1986 is Saros only goalie that's not 6 feet or taller?
Logan Thompson should've made that team.
And Kuemper. The only goalie Canada picked that’s actually “ok” is Hill but on my team he’d be the 3rd. I’d have Thompson and Kuemper as my tandem.
Logan was straight up robbed
He doesn't have the history of Thompson or Kuemper, but based on play this season I would say Blackwood belongs as well.
@@Moobeus Montembeault posted a .939 and 1.42 for Team Canada at the World Championships. He'll secure the starter spot if Hockey Canada has removed its head from its ass since the WJC
Roy is the reason Brodeur, Fleury, Luongo, Theodore and Giguere wore the Pads while Vachon is the reason Roy wore them.
...and the territory not listed was having Nunavut (I'll see myself out)
You get a single clap and an angry upvote. Now please get out.
Fleury actually has better stats than the 3 Canadian choices. I don't think he's currently better, but I would have loved to see it.
Plus hes such a good teamate!
Ken Dryden, Hamilton, Ontario - 258 wins in 397 NHL games.
Thanks for the video! Good details, info, and insights!
It's amazing that Harry Lumley a goalie who started his career during WWII, is still top 3 all time among Ontario goaltenders in wins. Truly an underrated all-time great, considering how he played when 60-70 games were the season length.
harry lumley was a great goalie for sure, but he's number 29 in wins all time
@@paulbaker9086 Still quite high. Considering he's in the 300 club, when he played for one great team in Detroit, a terrible Chicago, a bad to mediocre Toronto, and a mediocre to bad Boston.
@@20thCenturyManTrad still doesn't change the fact that he's 29th all time and not top 3 all time like you said
@@jejsemin33 Among Ontario goalies.
Never a word on Bill Durnan's amazing stats in his short 7 year career of dominance.
Really interesting. As a casual fan, would love a part 2 about the rise of Russian goalies in the last 10 years - Shesty, Vasilevsky, Bob, Sorokin, et al. Must have to do with coaching, but maybe different youth training programs or philosophies than Canada?
I love any video that Shannon starts with "I'll explain this mess, trust me..."
Patrick Roy famously played for a terrible junior team. 6,28 GAA / .842 in 54 games (13W, 35L), 4..4 GAA .873 in 61 games (No W/L on DB) and 5.55 GAA 8.72 (16W 25L)
being short is a ridiculous barrier to entry for a goalie; I do understand that if you are taller you will naturally cover more net, especially with the butterfly and RVH being the standard style for goaltending - but that doesn't mean you can't be good. Yes it does make the position more difficult (post-post coverage, needing to stay up for longer before dropping into the butterfly, etc.), but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Shorter goalies do have to work harder at things like reading the play and lateral speed, but if they can do that then they can be just as successful as any "tall" goalie. Saros and Wolf are among my favorite goaltenders; they are always a treat to watch.
P.S. slightly biased because I'm a short goalie myself :P
All that being said, I think that Canada just isn't organized enough; everything is private lessons and there really doesn't seem to be any open knowledge sharing - how are you supposed to grow if you are gated by both money and knowledge?
Great video Shannon. As a goalie, I really appreciate this one. I’m American, but very disappointed in the lack of turnout from Quebec. Brodeur and Roy are my favorites. My son has decided to take up the pads as well. He’s playing AA hockey. I’ve told him before. The best thing is playing on a middle of the road team. You can’t develop making 4 saves a game. Nor can you develop being consistently shelled.
Back in the day ('70's) when I played in goal, the equipment even then was expensive. We could barely afford the pants, sticks & goaltender skates, but the team usually bought & owned the pads, gloves & birdcage mask, which were loaned to the goalie.
Credentials: 40 years playing goal and 12 years coaching junior (not Junior) hockey. There are lots of resources out there, including good stuff issued by Hockey Canada. There are tons of goalie coaches and whole hockey organizations that do goalie training across their age and skill levels. On the downside, most team coaches do not integrate their goalies into practices well by setting up a blend of time and space for them to do their own drills as well as be involved in team game situations. And the goalie-specific game video review and breakdown is virtually non-existent.
The number of Canadian goalies in the NHL will never be what it once was; there is a far greater international talent pool now. Added to that is the fact that most countries realized earlier than we did that a heavy focus on quality goalie training was a way to steal games against the powerhouses like Canada. Finland was probably the first in this area and Russia jumped on it as well when they started to lose consistently to Canada and the US.
These things are often cyclical. We'll develop some star goalies soon. No need to panic but yeah, things are never going to be the way they once were.
I would 100% agree about modern hockey practices stifling creativity. I see my daughters skate around buckets for an hour. No scrimmage. Like, are we teaching them hockey or the bucket slolom?
My friends and I were discussing the current state of Canadian goalies the other day. We were reminiscing about how, in the past, we were stacked with talent; Brodeur, Roy, Joseph, Belfour, Luongo... there were just so many great Canadian goalies. Now, when I'm asked to name an active Canadian goalie who stands out as exceptional, I can't think of a single one. There are some decent ones, but none of the elite level that we used to have.
My canadian mother nearly broke down in tears when she found out Demko wasn't Canadian
I feel the present issue with the quality of Canadian goalies relative to those from the other 3 countries will make itself known in the 4 Nations Cup, and not in a good way.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s, playing goalie, in Montreal, Plante and the Gump and Vachon. Add Charlie Hodge were idols. Hall, Crozier, Bower and Sawchuk also Canucks. Esposito and Giacomin were outlier US born, yet great. Those were the pioneers of the NHL, pre-expansion.
Logan Thompson.... Canadians have good goalies. Just have coaches with ego problems.
It has become that because of the speed of shots, goaltending has become partially a statistical problem where surface will get you an advantage. And it's not just Canadian goalies. They're all big now.
Sawchuk, Turk Broda, Hextall, Ranford and Reimer are also from Manitoba with Belfour
U missed Ken Dryden
Dryden sucked playing Russia
One big one. In Quebec in the early 90s, EVERYONE wanted to be Roy and then Brodeur. Fleury is good but he's never been like the top dog everyone wanted to be... Up to the trade, EVERYONE had a Roy Jersey and it got a ton of kids wanting to be Goalies... playing street hockey and then ice hockey... We don't really have that anymore... We lost that guy who everyone wanted to be as kids and its not as popular anymore.
Saskatchewan gave Caps The Save with Holtby.
Said it before said it again. Skinner not being picked will be a big regret when they look back at it
They seem to pick 6'4" goalies and hope they can play rather than a 5'11" goalie who can play.
Absolutely phenomenal gollie no one is much talking about is Logan Thompson. Id get it how come he wasn’t nominated for tournament.
Love the sarcasm about Hutson at 10:13 lol ...ALL the teams passed on him at least once, should have AT LEAST been a top 10 overall.
EDIT: Oh, Caufield right after...yup
Holtby was thought of as the next to take the reigns from Price and Fleury’s generation but he fell of quickly. Carter Hart was touted as the next Canadian goalie but we all know why he’s gone now. It’s crazy how Canada produced Luongo, Fleury, and Price, who were drafted in the early first round. This is almost unheard of nowadays
American but the whole you have to play this way is definitely real. One of my coaches one time went to our goalie and told him that he would rather him not make the save he made to focus on posistioning. I was like what about Hasek, and he just said no. Made absoutly zero sense like are you trying to lose the game.
interesting to hear that point about how they learn all the technical stuff, without focusing on in game experience. I was wondering why a lot of young goalies, in the NHL seem to look so athletic, and precise in their movements, but then make really silly mistakes.
Canadian age demographics especially Quebecs are inverting i imagine this has a lot to do with the availability of these young guys
More parity at the international level was bound to happen. Equipment was crazy expensive when I was young, so I can imagine how much worse it has become. At least there are more equipment places that you can trade in old gear than decades ago.
Anyone can get hot at anytime - so unpredictable and I’m here for it!
About the height of goalies, it's even worst than that. I've heard from Stephane Waite(ex Carey Price's trainers among others), that teams actively give shots and try out to big goalie even if they are much worst than shorter ones because only they can be good enough for the NHL workload, it's an argument that Waite actually supports! He treats Juuse Saros as the abnormally that should never happen again, might as well not try.
I find it similar to the NFL QB situation, where all players at high level playing the position have to have good run game, even if they are terrible passers, NFL teams even recruit poor thrower with good running game in hope they develop the next Josh Allen, and then we wonder why there are so many mediocre passing QB in the NFL.
It’s not a ‘workload’ question, which would be related to physical fitness. It’s related more to the changed style of goaltending. Nowadays, with goalies playing a good portion of games on their knees, a taller goalie’s upper body will cover more of the upper net (though not enough, considering all of the roofed goals, and goals off the goalie’s head).
@ It’s both, because shorter goalie have to work harder to cover everything, it’s harder for them to be efficient.
I wouldn't worry about it. It is just some NHL exhibition tournament. They never ever bring up Rendezvouz '87, why should you take this one seriously?? Happened nearly 40 years ago, never mentioned again.
Counting wins without including win percentage gives a misleading representation of how they truly impacted the league when they played
This was fascinating. Thanks for doing this. Makes me think of baseball (Yes, I'm American.), and the catcher position amongst American-born players. In the 70s and 80s, the majority of the best catchers were American. Now, they're Latin-born players. Makes you think.
Logan Thompson should have been on the team and probably the starter. I was bummed when he left Vegas.
You'd think wingspan would be a real consideration too. That could make up for height.
If you thought about steiner math then we are on the same page
Amount of sask players dropped when about 50% of small towns closed their rinks due to lack of interest and cost of operation
I bet the Rollie Melanson goalie school has something to do with those New Brunswick numbers.
Shannon, have you considered green or purple text on the thumbnails?
Why?
Shannon doesnt need no fancy thumbnails or clickbait titles
Why? So it can look ugly?
@@jgp7414 Thank you for your question! My opinion, and it is merely my opinion, is that the white text kind of dissipares against the (often) white in the thumbnail. Hence my question to Shannon. 🙂
@@Svarthok I actually agree, I think having white on white just makes people ignore the text most of the time. If the text were an eye-catching color that would help a few more people come in for sure, I agree with you!
Shannon I would argue players went through the same thing with the "size" thing. Theo Fleury, Johnny Gaudreau, Martin St. Louis all spring to mind. "Oh look at their size, can you imagine a guy that side playing alongside 6'7 etc". I think what happened is the NHL started going big because Chara was an elite athlete. But we hit a point in the NHL where there are plenty of huge players in the NHL, but those smaller guys cause them to have fits. Many of those larger players aren't really good at shutting down the opposition. I mean I watched Tyler Myers as a Jet's fan for years; the guy should be able to keep the front of a net clear; but it's not in his skillset. And that was one of many second coming of Chara prospects. How we scout players has changed; I can track a 6'4 guy that doesn't look like he's wheeling and see he's as quick as that 5'7 guy. Legs aren't moving as fast; due to stride length. Hard to argue with Usain Bolt being too tall when he's got the actual timings. Or Canada's own Andre De Grasse being too short, when he has the timings.
I feel like scouting for players has really improved; it's less about size and more about results.
Goalies on the other hand, what do you measure? A fantastic goalie can be on a horrible team; and a substandard goalie can be the reason a team is thought to be horrible.
Wolf and Hellebuyck are both butterfly goalies; but their games couldn't be more different. Both very smart players but both have had to adapt their game to their bodies and their own instincts.
Excellent 👏 👏👏
Too bad its too late to add McKenzie Blackwood to this list. Underrated Canadian goalie that shown he can play on good and bad teams. And now, more than ever is he showing how really good of a goalie he is, on the Avs
CHL has put limits on foreign goalies in an effort to play more Canadian goalies to hopefully improve
You're not wrong about Quebec born players being less prevalent or relevant today. It's mostly because our provincial institutions rested on their laurels and let the game fade away at the levels where it matters the most: with kids. That and the increasing popularity of soccer and other sports plus the high price of entry of hockey have led to the unacceptable decay of what used to be a great source of pride for our province
People forget about Carter Harts potential, (I’m totally aware of why he is not considered) if he lived up to expectations, this debate might not be happening bc well “Canada has Carter hart” (maybe like comparison to prime Ben bishop or smtg not too crazy but very solid)
Logan thompson needs more credit
10:37 just to play devils advocate physically being larger is a genuine objective advantage when your job is to stop things going into a place of fixed size. Size isn’t so objectively important for offence and defence since there are different types and styles.
Last year I was shocked that the Spirit's goalie was one of the better goalies with an .845 Jr hockey and NHL hockey are two completely different games. It's not surprising Canadian goalies struggle at the NHL
Canada 🇨🇦 in the post Price era
No love for Alan Bester or Darren Pang
I honestly think it's going to take team Canada losing at a real prestigious tournament probably the Olympics, because of bad goaltending for the CHL and grass routes teams to start taking goaltending seriously. Wish it didn't have to be that way but that is the only way I could see the different levels of Canada hockey changing only through devastating lose(s).
What about Chris Osgood?! Not even listed!!!!! Why?!
Born in Alberta, won fewer games than Fuhr.
They definitely have to work on goalie skating, and let the technique develop for itself.
Skinner took the oilers to game 7, how is he not in consideration for team Canada
I am so excited for a decade of mediocre canadian goaltending. This is what will make all the best on best tournaments so entertaining.
Goalies on excellent teams need to be tested big time in practices with game like play and conditions. Unfortunately, at the youth hockey levels, goalies are an afterthought.
Jeremy Brodeur gonna be the next great 🔥
Northwest Territories AND Nunuvut not represented…
I still think Carter Hart would be the starter for team Canada for the 4 nations cup, had it not been for what he and others did for what they're currently suspended for/not signed/accused of at that juniors summer event. As it seems - a really terrible crime (if convicted, obviously), but my Flyers really suffer hockey wise because of it.
I could not hear Shannon because I have my 2 Stanley Cup rings in my ears
Never has a sentence carried so much weight with a goofy delivery 😂
I love hockey. Which was tough in my early lives growing up in Las Vegas. After watching The Miracle on Ice I was hooked. While I love international tourney's, I would much rather NOT see this during the season. I don't want ANY big names on ANY teams hurt. This whole thing is silly. It's not even the best of the best. So many country's won't be there. Just wait for the Olympics or run a tourney in the off season and see who wants to go.
Canada doesn’t develop good goalies anymore because if you grew up playing semi competitive hockey you know these coaches don’t give a flying fuck about their goalies. It’s just oh go in the corner and take shots from the goalie coach dad who can’t even skate while we do our systems. European coaches actually care about their goalies from a young age and it’s showing
I have been saying for a few years that Canadian goal tending has been on the decline.
Just wanted to say I listen to hockey a lot on XM Radio and usually listen to Canadian radio station and lately I've been shocked how many of these guys/gals mispronounce players names. Do some homework folks.
Do you consider Decord a Canadian goaltender?
Marc-André Fleury was right there and they just ignored him.
he is 9-3-1 in 14 starts this season, .910 Save% and 2.54 GAA. Hockey Canada don't know what they are doing.
Fleury's play has dropped off over the last few years. I totally understand why he wasn't picked.
He's a backup, so he's more likely to play worse teams. I also just don't think they would name a backup to the team. I would have loved to see Flower on the team, but I don't know if he would have been a good choice.
@ they gonna play like 5 games. having Fleury as a backup could have work too.
@@chrisbelos2834 Especially in a year with less than Stellar goaltending, they need to have the best shot at getting a starter, and I don't think Fleury is that. I don't know if their selections are, either, especially leaving Thompson home, but they're not selecting a Backup.
You're wrong, they do the exact same thing for all players, Lane Hutson was chosen at what, 62 ??? and there is many other similar examples...
Yes!! Quebec politicians crap on the Habs for not taking more Quebecois players but hockey development in the province has dropped off quite a bit in the last couple of decades. The Habs would love a Francophone star from Quebec but it is Quebec hockey that is messing it up
Hey Shannon. I really do appreciate this channel. Most of your insight is well thought out and presented (love the low tech white board).
The "talking head" banter from the "experts" before, during, and after the game, is usually quite the turn off for me. So keep doing what you're doing. We need you.
One thing that sometimes annoys me though, is the amount of time you sometimes take on quoting statistics.
Today was an example of taking a lot of time for quoting BOTH numbers and percentages, before you started talking about your take on the topic. Similarly, game summaries could be abbreviated. Just my take. I could be in the minority here.
6 minutes of a 15 minute video were stats design to set the context on the topic. Keep the content in the board, but it doesn't all need to be quoted. All that info could have been condensed into less than a minute. Thus, leaving time for your take here on who you see as the potential game 1 starting goalies for all four teams.
Love the show. But statistics don't always equal content.
Have a nice day.
Hockey Canada can talk a good game…but they have done NOTHING to provide support to goaltending at the junior level or below.
im amused a bit
if there are 24 players on a team and 2 are goalies .
then 8.44% of teams are goalies
so imo if goalies are being drafted above 10% thats better than the d or fw.
because that means 1.66% less d and fw are being taken?
numvers are fun do more plz.
Canada does not need a goalie
*65
Talking about percentages when your numerator and denominators are small, makes very little sense.
USA is gonna dominate, btw Mackenzie Blackwood deserves to start for Canada
Nunavut... I might give you a pass if you were American ;) ..... (I'll see myself out as well)
Roy inspired Quebeckers because he wore a Canadiens jersey as he won Cups and rewrote the record book. Just as Rocket Richard or Guy Lafleur did.
Brodeur and Luongo by contrast didn't inspire anyone.
In my opinion, the reason why there is a goaltending issue in Canada has to do with the state of the Montreal Canadiens over the past 30 years, and drafting rules. French Canadians don't get to play for the Canadiens, due to the draft. And the Canadiens have not lived up to their legacy. The best goaltending has historically come from Quebec, and hockey popularity has fallen.
Brodeur almost inspired me to put my fist through the TV every time he played the Habs in Montreal 😂 (I think he only lost two games in MTL).
Not at all overblown (or surprising) given the complete shit show that has been the last 2 World Junior tournaments; whether due to complacency, greed, etc. Hockey Canada's gotten incredibly incompetent. Now it's just a matter of much worse things have to get before they're forced into changing.
It really does feel that it's a Global Game now. The European Goalies, (Especially the Russian Ones), seem to have that edge.
Another vid from the king himself👑
The height thing feels obvious to me. You simply fill more of the net by standing there. That being said, I think we see more 5-hole goals than we would with shorter goalies.
I also think that you don't see similar comments from scouts about forwards and defense because it's harder to succeed at the junior level when you're shorter in those positions.
Did you forget that Nunavut exists.
Maybe the Russians have the best 3 goalies in the league..Canadians are having problems beating what's out there now...Not shocking they want to play politics to keep the Russians out.
Great Canadian Pro Goalies are few and far between because…. #1 Cost of playing and traveling are through the roof. Equipment, rink/team fees, gasline/diesel are wayyyy higher than when I gave up back in 2002. Sadly the sport has become a “Sport for the 1% crowd”. #2. AAA Bantam/Midget, Junior A and Major Junior Team Management only care about how tall goalies are, meaning they want guys that are at least 6’ in the Bantam/Midget, and 6’4” - 6’6’’ in Junior A and Major Junior which leads to even less of a crop when it comes to the NHL. There are plenty of talented young goaltenders that are the size of Dustin Wolf or Juuse Saros that can skate and move around the net great, but are considered too small by the idiots that manage NHL teams. #3 Young guys these days would rather stare at their smartphone all day and become a youtuber or social media influencer for the big money rather than beat up their bodies for big money. I don’t see things changing anytime soon.
USA USA USA!
Quebec hockey is indeed in total decline, we barely develop good to elite NHLers anymore, a theorical Quebec province team of the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, 70’s, 80s, 90s, early 2000s could of been competitive or straight up dominant vs the ROC, not anymore.
Ironically the QMJHL still develops loads of elite foreign talent, it seems that the sport locally isn’t as practiced as it used to be for multiple reasons, mainly $.
Marchessault, but not by a lot.
Huberdeau is starting to wake up a little, Danault is decent at everything offensively or defensively, honorable mention to Mike Matheson because he has been a beast offensively in Montreal for the last 3 seasons.
Guys like Vlasic, Perron, Fleury and Letang are also still active but way out of their Prime.
Yeah Lafreniere has a lot of still untapped potential, last season he was amazing. He will thrive wherever he ends up.
The issue isn’t that Canada doesn’t have good goalies it’s just team Canada didn’t pick any of them. Thompson, Talbot and Kuemper are all up there with the best and yet none were picked.
It's pretty bleak
Do NHL players, or viewers for that matter, care about this tournament? I personally do not
I'm sure the players do. I'm really excited for it, as it's been a long time since we've seen best on best.
I'd pick Fleury over Binnington
Your organization of data into columns is mind boggling. And not in a good way.
The boards and data are for me so I can keep everything clear for the videos I make.
@@TheHockeyGuy Yeah, the order in which you lay data out is very strange though.
You da man Shannon
Thankfully the organization only has to serve Shannon.
@@bucketophil lol
As I VGK fan I hope they mostly play Binnington instead of Hill…
…and I hope the Americans play a buttload of Hellybuck during the four nations. 😂