Excellent work on the shaper Robert. And a good reference for any issues I may have in the future. I do enjoy watching and listening to your matter of fact commentary on all your videos and I hope your channel goes from strength to strength ... Looking forward to the next video.👍🏻
@@GenauMann Thank you, glad you enjoy my videos. The next one may take a while to produce as I'm doing a lot of non video worthy stuff at the moment, but those jobs all need doing!
@@RustyInventions-wz6ir Thank you. Yes, my mill is crying out for attention too. Unfortunately, scraping the table ways flat, sorting out the knee dovetails and making a new table feed nut will take a good deal longer than changing some bushes!
Lovely clean shaper. Ive had good success using standard oil impregnated Oilite bushes to replace bronze bearings, size ID as required, then only machine OD and length, ID should not be machined, a roller reamer is the correct tool to improve finish and size. Great idea on testing fit/shrinkage. Thanks for sharing
@@bostedtap8399 Thanks for watching. I knew you shouldnt machine the running surface of the oilite bushes as the material smears into the pores. I guess I could have just loctited then in place if the OD was a bit small.
Thanks for this video Robbert, a few weeks ago i came in possesion of an elliott 10m (wonderfull little machine) it works great but indeed at some speeds it is clunking away. i didn't figure out yet what caused the clunking. after watching your video i checked on mine and i now know what is causing the clunking, and now i know how to fix it. thanks a lot you saved me a lot of time figuring out what the cause of the problem is :)
You should also check the sliding bearing block that runs in the rocker arm slot for wear or excessive clearance....I had to make a new oversized bearing block for my Alba 1A and mill the inner sliding surfaces of the rocker arm to match....all this was due to previous users not observing the lubrication of the moving parts. EDIT TO ADD: You will always get a bit of clunky clattering noise due to the backlash between the bullgear and the drive pinion and also a little bit of clatter from the bottom fork on the rocker arm where it locates on the lower rocker pin is quite normal.
@@machineshopatthebottomofth3213 Thank you for watching! Yes, it should be nice and clean. I bought it as an ebay gamble back in 2020, it was grimy and rusty in places. I stripped it down to component parts, cleaned, fixed and painted everything. I wrote a thread on mig-welding.co.uk/forum about it to help out anyone else who's taking a 10M apart.
Goodness gracious, there is nothing light weight about these old pieces of machinery. What a workout. You got your exercise that day making that repair.
More treasure footage from the Potting Shed vault. I am going to watch some parts of this video a couple more times to make a closer note of the improvements that Elliot designed in and differ from my earlier Alba 1A. I have already noted from your video that Elliot have added oil well grooves on the ram housing slideway faces that correspond to the ram oilers whereas my Alba does not have any gallery grooves at all (I see some oil well grooves being added to my machine very soon) Another interesting improvement I see on your Elliot is the cutaway section in the right side dovetail slideway to allow the webbed stiffening bridge on the rocker arm to easily pass out through the top of the main machine housing.....there is no such cutaway on my Alba 1A which make removing the rocker arm out through the top a real sod of a job. Also worthy of mention is the removable dovetail Gib strip on your Elliot has been located on the left side (viewed from the front of the machine) whereas the removable Gib on the Alba 1A is on the opposite right hand side....it also only has 3 mounting bolts whereas your Elliot has 4 bolting points. I also had a very worn bull gear shaft when I first got the Alba but my shaft was very badly scored due to long term lack of lubrication. My solution was to make a whole new bull gear shaft and mounting flange but make the new shaft oversized and rebore the original worn bronze bushings whilst still in situ in the cast iron bearing housing.....It all worked very nicely and the old Alba is in very good working order and gives lots of faithful service (it was in fact in use machining some 12mm square stock earlier this evening before I sat down to watch your latest video upload)
@@howardosborne8647 Wow! You really did watch the video in detail! I could have got away with not doing this for a while, but sooner or later it would have bitten me. If the machine looks a bit clean inside, its because I stripped the whole thing into component parts when I restored it. It was an ebay gamble. It could just as easily been a boat anchor, but fortunately it wasnt too bad under the rust and grime.
Robert, nice job. Alternatively you could leave the hole in the middle too small, press the bushes into the housing and mount the housing in the lathe or mill and bore the inside diameter to size. No need to predict the final size after pressing then. Best! Job
@@jobkneppers Thank you! Yes, I considered that. The bores would be guaranteed to line up then and the finished size would be spot on. Apart from the taper that my lathe turns of course!
Great job on a really nice machine, I've subscribed now, so will have a look at some of your earlier video's. I would suggest that your Elliott was a more expensive and better quality machine than my shaper (Boxford 8").
@@colindrakes4607 Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for subscribing. The Elliott has its drawbacks, adjusting the stroke for example. However, even if you think the Boxford is a lesser machine, any shaper is better than not having one!
Great and beautiful detail work,Robert.Such a nice shaper.Can you tell me please what kind of tool post you use and what size of boring bars?Thank you.
@@angelramos-2005 Thanks very much! My toolpost is a model 222 from arceurotrade.co.uk. Their website will give you all the size details. I've got a mixture of toolholders, about half of them made by me. I use SCLCR boring bars, I think 6,8,10 and 12mm dia for ccmt0602 inserts, a 16mm one which takes ccmt09 inserts and a solitary sclcr 10k carbide bar, which is the one I used in the video. For very small bores I use shop ground HSS.
@@constantinehatzis2807 Thank you very much. I hate machines making noises they shouldn't. Also, fix them while you have the time, not in the middle of a rush job!
Did that fix all of the clonking Robert? I have read that this often comes from wear between the yoke pin and the scotch yoke. I can’t help thinking that the method of getting oil to that bushing is a contributing factor in its wear relying on it dripping from the oiler onto the oiling hole on the bearing.. Great job as always.
Thanks Tony. I think I have fixed it. Having found the wear in those bushes, my theory is that the increased loading on the outboard end of the shaft, due to the drivetrain to the dividing head, was causing it to rock back and forth more than under "normal" shaper usage. As for the yoke pin, thats a nice fit in the yoke. It gets wear on the front and back sides, so when I stripped the machine, this pin included, I refitted it at 90 degrees to its original rotation, thus providing a good fit into the yoke.
A nice ' easy' job for a man of your calibre Robert. Were the original bushings Phosphor bronze, or is that all that is now available here in the UK as a plain bearing bronze?
@@samrodian919 Thanks! I think the originals were phosphor bronze. There are a number of bronze alloys available. I've used SAE660 leaded bearing bronze in the past, but I felt that something a bit harder might be better, so I went for a phosphor bronze as I've made ACME nuts from it before and it's been tough. Some suggested oillite bushes but I wasn't sure what sort of fit they'd be on the shaft and machining the running surfaces is not recommended on them.
Very nice repair that one. What was the final clearance between the shaft and the bearing? One of the first machines I ever cut metal on was an Elliott 10M. It was part of our very new Metalworking class room, at my secondary school (Opened by one Margaret Thatcher when she was Education Minister). I used it to machine the numbers flat on the face of an aluminum house number plate, that we had cast using the lost polystyrene casting process. The lathes were Boxfords, AUD's I think, but happy to be proved wrong on that one. Would have been 11 or 12 then, over 50 years ago. I cannot think of a single school these days that would have class rooms as well equiped as our were back then.
@@billdoodson4232 Thanks! Clearance was probably around a thou, enough for an oil film but not enough to feel any rock. This was the first shaper I ever used. In my first job I did a "metalbashing" course (I was an electronic engineer) using lathes, mills, arc weldrers etc and had worked for a bicycle frame builder in the summer hols, but thats the limit of my formal machining training.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Yes,I think you're spot on there as all of our local secondary school metal workshops on the Isle of Man were equipped with Boxford lathes and quite often Elliot milling machines. The next educational stage of Technical Colleges were often kitted out with Harrison L5A or L6 and Colchester Student lathes and Harrison universal milling machines. I also remember there being a couple of Alba shapers and a larger Elliot 16 inch stroke shaper at the Tech college.
@howardosborne8647 Yes, our technical college had Colchester Roundheads, but I think they were Triumphs rather than Students. I have a RH Triumph in my garage that is hopefully sold now after owning it for 30 odd years. The college workshop also had a brand new universal mill that I used a couple of times, but cannot remember what if was now.
Exact question I came to comments to ask. “Oillite bushings are engineered materials designed for specific life and service factors. Phosphor bronze tends to run extremely dry and can grab without lubrication. What you'll need to assess is in this application, is there a way to get lubrication into the joint, will that lubrication maintain itself in the joint over the service life of the machine. If the lubrication is likely to wear itself away, what are the chances that someone will remember to re-lube it.”
@@ryebis Yes, I thought about it and theyre available in the size. I wasnt sure how it would stand up to the high force, low speed usage, so opted for phosphor bronze as per the originals. As for lubrication, the whole machine needs it regularly as theres no automated system so I don't see that as an issue.
@@semperfidelis8386 3 x 5m, roughly or 9 x 15ft if you prefer imperial. I'd love more, but that would be a major upheaval and expense and I'd only end up filling it with more or bigger machines. Got a garage of similar dimensions, which is where the welder and woodturning lathe live.
Excellent work on the shaper Robert.
And a good reference for any issues I may have in the future.
I do enjoy watching and listening to your matter of fact commentary on all your videos and I hope your channel goes from strength to strength ... Looking forward to the next video.👍🏻
@@GenauMann Thank you, glad you enjoy my videos. The next one may take a while to produce as I'm doing a lot of non video worthy stuff at the moment, but those jobs all need doing!
Robert, we can see from this that this machines refurbishment is 1st class
@@Griffon37 Thank you!
Very nice work sir. Old machines need love all the time.
@@RustyInventions-wz6ir Thank you. Yes, my mill is crying out for attention too. Unfortunately, scraping the table ways flat, sorting out the knee dovetails and making a new table feed nut will take a good deal longer than changing some bushes!
Lovely clean shaper.
Ive had good success using standard oil impregnated Oilite bushes to replace bronze bearings, size ID as required, then only machine OD and length, ID should not be machined, a roller reamer is the correct tool to improve finish and size.
Great idea on testing fit/shrinkage.
Thanks for sharing
@@bostedtap8399 Thanks for watching. I knew you shouldnt machine the running surface of the oilite bushes as the material smears into the pores. I guess I could have just loctited then in place if the OD was a bit small.
Thanks for this video Robbert, a few weeks ago i came in possesion of an elliott 10m (wonderfull little machine) it works great but indeed at some speeds it is clunking away. i didn't figure out yet what caused the clunking. after watching your video i checked on mine and i now know what is causing the clunking, and now i know how to fix it. thanks a lot you saved me a lot of time figuring out what the cause of the problem is :)
@@tomhaaima1810 Glad the video is immediately useful! Bronze isn't cheap unfortunately. I used PB1 phosphor bronze BTW.
You should also check the sliding bearing block that runs in the rocker arm slot for wear or excessive clearance....I had to make a new oversized bearing block for my Alba 1A and mill the inner sliding surfaces of the rocker arm to match....all this was due to previous users not observing the lubrication of the moving parts.
EDIT TO ADD: You will always get a bit of clunky clattering noise due to the backlash between the bullgear and the drive pinion and also a little bit of clatter from the bottom fork on the rocker arm where it locates on the lower rocker pin is quite normal.
That is a very clean looking 10m. Mine has a clunk and so I suspect I may need to perform a similiar procedure. Enjoyed the video. Thanks!
@@machineshopatthebottomofth3213 Thank you for watching! Yes, it should be nice and clean. I bought it as an ebay gamble back in 2020, it was grimy and rusty in places. I stripped it down to component parts, cleaned, fixed and painted everything. I wrote a thread on mig-welding.co.uk/forum about it to help out anyone else who's taking a 10M apart.
Goodness gracious, there is nothing light weight about these old pieces of machinery. What a workout. You got your exercise that day making that repair.
@@jeff1176 Yes, it felt a bit like that!
More treasure footage from the Potting Shed vault.
I am going to watch some parts of this video a couple more times to make a closer note of the improvements that Elliot designed in and differ from my earlier Alba 1A.
I have already noted from your video that Elliot have added oil well grooves on the ram housing slideway faces that correspond to the ram oilers whereas my Alba does not have any gallery grooves at all (I see some oil well grooves being added to my machine very soon)
Another interesting improvement I see on your Elliot is the cutaway section in the right side dovetail slideway to allow the webbed stiffening bridge on the rocker arm to easily pass out through the top of the main machine housing.....there is no such cutaway on my Alba 1A which make removing the rocker arm out through the top a real sod of a job.
Also worthy of mention is the removable dovetail Gib strip on your Elliot has been located on the left side (viewed from the front of the machine) whereas the removable Gib on the Alba 1A is on the opposite right hand side....it also only has 3 mounting bolts whereas your Elliot has 4 bolting points.
I also had a very worn bull gear shaft when I first got the Alba but my shaft was very badly scored due to long term lack of lubrication.
My solution was to make a whole new bull gear shaft and mounting flange but make the new shaft oversized and rebore the original worn bronze bushings whilst still in situ in the cast iron bearing housing.....It all worked very nicely and the old Alba is in very good working order and gives lots of faithful service (it was in fact in use machining some 12mm square stock earlier this evening before I sat down to watch your latest video upload)
@@howardosborne8647 Wow! You really did watch the video in detail! I could have got away with not doing this for a while, but sooner or later it would have bitten me. If the machine looks a bit clean inside, its because I stripped the whole thing into component parts when I restored it. It was an ebay gamble. It could just as easily been a boat anchor, but fortunately it wasnt too bad under the rust and grime.
Robert, nice job. Alternatively you could leave the hole in the middle too small, press the bushes into the housing and mount the housing in the lathe or mill and bore the inside diameter to size. No need to predict the final size after pressing then. Best! Job
@@jobkneppers Thank you! Yes, I considered that. The bores would be guaranteed to line up then and the finished size would be spot on. Apart from the taper that my lathe turns of course!
well done on the job and the filming ... not easy
Beautiful machine, beautiful work, Rob!
@@thomasstover6272 Thanks Tom. It was time to give the old girl some TLC!
Love the sign lying next to the shaper. “There’s no need to remind him every six months.”😂😂😂
Enjoyed the video.
@@macsmachine When it comes to decorating the house, maybe I do need reminding occasionally😁
Don't forget that Kitchen 😮@@ThePottingShedWorkshop
Robert, its nice to see a machine tool that has been refurbished to a high standard even down to the red paint on the inside😊
Great job on a really nice machine, I've subscribed now, so will have a look at some of your earlier video's.
I would suggest that your Elliott was a more expensive and better quality machine than my shaper (Boxford 8").
@@colindrakes4607 Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for subscribing.
The Elliott has its drawbacks, adjusting the stroke for example. However, even if you think the Boxford is a lesser machine, any shaper is better than not having one!
Agreed !
Excellent video, great camera work, thanks a lot.
@@rodneykiemele4721 Thank you! I try and get the camera (phone!) shots I'd like to see.
Great and beautiful detail work,Robert.Such a nice shaper.Can you tell me please what kind of tool post you use and what size of boring bars?Thank you.
@@angelramos-2005 Thanks very much! My toolpost is a model 222 from arceurotrade.co.uk. Their website will give you all the size details. I've got a mixture of toolholders, about half of them made by me. I use SCLCR boring bars, I think 6,8,10 and 12mm dia for ccmt0602 inserts, a 16mm one which takes ccmt09 inserts and a solitary sclcr 10k carbide bar, which is the one I used in the video. For very small bores I use shop ground HSS.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Thank you Robert.Very kind of you.
Excellent repair of a fine machine.
@@constantinehatzis2807 Thank you very much. I hate machines making noises they shouldn't. Also, fix them while you have the time, not in the middle of a rush job!
Did that fix all of the clonking Robert? I have read that this often comes from wear between the yoke pin and the scotch yoke. I can’t help thinking that the method of getting oil to that bushing is a contributing factor in its wear relying on it dripping from the oiler onto the oiling hole on the bearing.. Great job as always.
Thanks Tony. I think I have fixed it. Having found the wear in those bushes, my theory is that the increased loading on the outboard end of the shaft, due to the drivetrain to the dividing head, was causing it to rock back and forth more than under "normal" shaper usage. As for the yoke pin, thats a nice fit in the yoke. It gets wear on the front and back sides, so when I stripped the machine, this pin included, I refitted it at 90 degrees to its original rotation, thus providing a good fit into the yoke.
You are strong like bull!!
@@Jan_Raap And getting weaker with every year that passes!😁
A nice ' easy' job for a man of your calibre Robert. Were the original bushings Phosphor bronze, or is that all that is now available here in the UK as a plain bearing bronze?
@@samrodian919 Thanks! I think the originals were phosphor bronze. There are a number of bronze alloys available. I've used SAE660 leaded bearing bronze in the past, but I felt that something a bit harder might be better, so I went for a phosphor bronze as I've made ACME nuts from it before and it's been tough. Some suggested oillite bushes but I wasn't sure what sort of fit they'd be on the shaft and machining the running surfaces is not recommended on them.
Very nice repair that one. What was the final clearance between the shaft and the bearing?
One of the first machines I ever cut metal on was an Elliott 10M. It was part of our very new Metalworking class room, at my secondary school (Opened by one Margaret Thatcher when she was Education Minister). I used it to machine the numbers flat on the face of an aluminum house number plate, that we had cast using the lost polystyrene casting process.
The lathes were Boxfords, AUD's I think, but happy to be proved wrong on that one. Would have been 11 or 12 then, over 50 years ago. I cannot think of a single school these days that would have class rooms as well equiped as our were back then.
@@billdoodson4232 Thanks! Clearance was probably around a thou, enough for an oil film but not enough to feel any rock. This was the first shaper I ever used. In my first job I did a "metalbashing" course (I was an electronic engineer) using lathes, mills, arc weldrers etc and had worked for a bicycle frame builder in the summer hols, but thats the limit of my formal machining training.
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Yet I would easily be convinced you had been trained in a commercial toolroom environment
@@ThePottingShedWorkshop Yes,I think you're spot on there as all of our local secondary school metal workshops on the Isle of Man were equipped with Boxford lathes and quite often Elliot milling machines.
The next educational stage of Technical Colleges were often kitted out with Harrison L5A or L6 and Colchester Student lathes and Harrison universal milling machines.
I also remember there being a couple of Alba shapers and a larger Elliot 16 inch stroke shaper at the Tech college.
@howardosborne8647 Yes, our technical college had Colchester Roundheads, but I think they were Triumphs rather than Students. I have a RH Triumph in my garage that is hopefully sold now after owning it for 30 odd years. The college workshop also had a brand new universal mill that I used a couple of times, but cannot remember what if was now.
Did you consider using an oilite bushing ?
Exact question I came to comments to ask.
“Oillite bushings are engineered materials designed for specific life and service factors. Phosphor bronze tends to run extremely dry and can grab without lubrication. What you'll need to assess is in this application, is there a way to get lubrication into the joint, will that lubrication maintain itself in the joint over the service life of the machine. If the lubrication is likely to wear itself away, what are the chances that someone will remember to re-lube it.”
@@ryebis Yes, I thought about it and theyre available in the size. I wasnt sure how it would stand up to the high force, low speed usage, so opted for phosphor bronze as per the originals. As for lubrication, the whole machine needs it regularly as theres no automated system so I don't see that as an issue.
how much floor space you got in yo9ur workshop, Robert?
@@semperfidelis8386 3 x 5m, roughly or 9 x 15ft if you prefer imperial. I'd love more, but that would be a major upheaval and expense and I'd only end up filling it with more or bigger machines. Got a garage of similar dimensions, which is where the welder and woodturning lathe live.
Its impressive how much is fitted in this space
Made of gravity. 😁