I also listened to Determined as an audiobook. Very highly recommended. It is one of the rare books that can literally deeply change your view of yourself and the actions of others. The fundamental idea he so convincingly presents has the real potential to significantly change society, even more than Pasteur's discovery of the cause of infectious diseases.
Most, especially here in the west often forget about the moral determinism of Hellenism, this is often discredited as pseudoscience by folks like Sapolsky unfortunately because of its deep spiritual and metaphysical roots. What Christianity has done was make us all believe we are all special in some way or the next. Many communities in eastern countries still believe in things like moral determinism and is far older than belief in free will I think. It is looked down upon by scientists here in the west because it has no association with biological determinism as it firmly disagrees with some of the core views of biological determinism, Buddhist philosophy being a relatively living example of this. The ancient stoics, all followers of the religion of Hellenism, talked about these things quite passionately and continue to have a big influence on minority faiths here in the west as well as denominations of Shinto and Hinduism in the east. Many Christians, mostly protestants and some branches of gnosticism, hold firm beliefs in moral determinism still and are looked down upon often as heresies by most other Christian denominations. Martin Luther, the founding father of protestantism, was said to hold beliefs in moral determinism which is half of why he was hated by the Catholic Church who have been vehement believers in free will.
No free will does not change anything. You are a human and it is in human nature that we “think” we have free will. You will choose your shirt, job, vacation etc.. The understanding of no free will simply shows why this happens. When you see this in yourself, you see it in others and judging others decreases.
I have been looking at the world though determinism eyes since multiple years and indeed it changes very little. At first I had to convince myself of the differences but over a few weeks or months it became natural. I think it is a bit like losing a belief, but you can of course argue that determinism is a belief. Still determinism is more parsimonious than the belief in some sort of magical consciousness. So in principle the burden of proof lies with the people who belief in consciousness. Indeed you may become less judgmental.
Thank you for the book review! Try reading Iain McGilchrist’s book The Matter With Things. It’s a neuroscience, philosophy book rolled into one. If that is too long for you try his other book The Master and His Emissary. Both books explore the hemispheres if the brain and their influence in western culture and human cognitive behavior. You won’t regret it, exceptionallt erudite.
Thanks for sharing. Curious to know if it would be a good idea to read his prior book first, or is that necessary? Thanks for any feedback. Nice review -
I just finished reading it and also loved it!. I will say that I was already a believer that we are nothing more than highly complex organic robots. I didn't need all the neuroscience to see the obvious that everything we do is a result of what happens in our brain, and our brain is a biological mechanism like everything else with determined if not predictable outcomes. One thing I disagree with is when he says that: “It is logically indefensible, ludicrous, meaningless to believe that something 'good' can happen to a machine. Nonetheless, I am certain that it is good if people feel less pain and more happiness.” It is the first part I disagree with, not the second. Here's the problem with the first part; If the machine is to continue functioning, it needs some things: fluids, energy input, replacement of worn out parts, etc, etc. It can be argued that helping the machine get the things it needs to continue functioning well are good for the machine. Denying it the things it needs to function well are bad for the machine. So I argue, as a machine myself, and as a machine that relies on others for many of its needs in order to continue functioning, and as a machine that perceives itself as having a desire to continue functioning well, if you do things that interfere with my functioning, I consider that bad whereas if you do things that help with my functioning I consider that good. And I assume all the other machines around me feel the same on some level, although I also understand that every machine is programmed a bit differently and that our needs vary, so it is thus good to be cognizant of the needs of other machines. (Sound familiar?) Therefore, to me, it is good to assign praise for the good that a machine does as it can help with the functioning of that machine, and it is also bad to punish and assign blame for the bad a machine does as that hurts the functioning of the machine.
@@BookLabBjorn you. Dude this is hell. I hate being negative but im so depressed and about to drop of my elec eng major since I realized this. ig i’ll never win this battle. Sorry abt that. Love from Saudi ❤️🇸🇦
Ah, I see. I guess I kinda knew this was the case before I read the book. It’s quite obvious that “free will” is an illusion if you study physics, biology and neuroscience. I guess I got this realization slowly over many years and hence it didn’t disturb me as much as if I would have gotten the full realization all at ones. I don’t know, I still “choose” to be happy I guess. A book that hit me really hard was “Straw Dogs” by John Gray. I put a review up of it… damn… that’s a depressing view on the human predicament to say the least.
That’s a good question. It might take some time for translations to come out because it’s quite a niche book and it’s quite a bit of translation that needs to be done (and done right.) . Any Hungarians that know?! 🤔
![Robert Sapolsky: There is no free will. Now what? [Vert Dider] 2020](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GvYMwJXsByY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Robert Sapolsky: There is no free will. Now what? [Vert Dider] 2020](/img/tr.png)
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
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I also listened to Determined as an audiobook. Very highly recommended. It is one of the rare books that can literally deeply change your view of yourself and the actions of others. The fundamental idea he so convincingly presents has the real potential to significantly change society, even more than Pasteur's discovery of the cause of infectious diseases.
This is the greatest book i´ve read in my life so far !
I’m glad to hear you enjoyed the book so much. Books like this one is why I love reading and learning.
Read "Behave"
@@llewellynjones1115 that one is also fantastic 👍🏻. 😀
@@BookLabBjorn Yeah I've also read behave also a fantastic book
Most, especially here in the west often forget about the moral determinism of Hellenism, this is often discredited as pseudoscience by folks like Sapolsky unfortunately because of its deep spiritual and metaphysical roots. What Christianity has done was make us all believe we are all special in some way or the next. Many communities in eastern countries still believe in things like moral determinism and is far older than belief in free will I think. It is looked down upon by scientists here in the west because it has no association with biological determinism as it firmly disagrees with some of the core views of biological determinism, Buddhist philosophy being a relatively living example of this. The ancient stoics, all followers of the religion of Hellenism, talked about these things quite passionately and continue to have a big influence on minority faiths here in the west as well as denominations of Shinto and Hinduism in the east. Many Christians, mostly protestants and some branches of gnosticism, hold firm beliefs in moral determinism still and are looked down upon often as heresies by most other Christian denominations. Martin Luther, the founding father of protestantism, was said to hold beliefs in moral determinism which is half of why he was hated by the Catholic Church who have been vehement believers in free will.
No free will does not change anything. You are a human and it is in human nature that we “think” we have free will. You will choose your shirt, job, vacation etc.. The understanding of no free will simply shows why this happens. When you see this in yourself, you see it in others and judging others decreases.
Yup, that’s the good news
I have been looking at the world though determinism eyes since multiple years and indeed it changes very little. At first I had to convince myself of the differences but over a few weeks or months it became natural. I think it is a bit like losing a belief, but you can of course argue that determinism is a belief. Still determinism is more parsimonious than the belief in some sort of magical consciousness. So in principle the burden of proof lies with the people who belief in consciousness. Indeed you may become less judgmental.
Thank you for the book review! Try reading Iain McGilchrist’s book The Matter With Things. It’s a neuroscience, philosophy book rolled into one. If that is too long for you try his other book The Master and His Emissary. Both books explore the hemispheres if the brain and their influence in western culture and human cognitive behavior. You won’t regret it, exceptionallt erudite.
The master and His Emissary is on my list. I’ll bump the priority on that one. Thanks for the recommendations! 😊
Great review.
Thanks! 🙏
@@BookLabBjorn cool accent as well. Keep it up.
@@clivepilusa7734 Swedish 🇸🇪
Thanks so much for this reading tip. On my list now for 2024. Guess it was predetermined ;-)
Yes! My favorite thing has always been to make detailed plans for the future. Now determinism does everything for me. I can just sit back and relax! 😂
Thanks for sharing. Curious to know if it would be a good idea to read his prior book first, or is that necessary?
Thanks for any feedback. Nice review -
You can read this without reading the other books. It has quite detailed summaries of previous books included in this one. Enjoy!
I just finished reading it and also loved it!.
I will say that I was already a believer that we are nothing more than highly complex organic robots. I didn't need all the neuroscience to see the obvious that everything we do is a result of what happens in our brain, and our brain is a biological mechanism like everything else with determined if not predictable outcomes.
One thing I disagree with is when he says that:
“It is logically indefensible, ludicrous, meaningless to believe that something 'good' can happen to a machine. Nonetheless, I am certain that it is good if people feel less pain and more happiness.”
It is the first part I disagree with, not the second.
Here's the problem with the first part; If the machine is to continue functioning, it needs some things: fluids, energy input, replacement of worn out parts, etc, etc. It can be argued that helping the machine get the things it needs to continue functioning well are good for the machine. Denying it the things it needs to function well are bad for the machine. So I argue, as a machine myself, and as a machine that relies on others for many of its needs in order to continue functioning, and as a machine that perceives itself as having a desire to continue functioning well, if you do things that interfere with my functioning, I consider that bad whereas if you do things that help with my functioning I consider that good. And I assume all the other machines around me feel the same on some level, although I also understand that every machine is programmed a bit differently and that our needs vary, so it is thus good to be cognizant of the needs of other machines. (Sound familiar?)
Therefore, to me, it is good to assign praise for the good that a machine does as it can help with the functioning of that machine, and it is also bad to punish and assign blame for the bad a machine does as that hurts the functioning of the machine.
Ansioso para chegar no Brasil, infelizmente nenhuma previsão
thank you very much
You’re welcome! Thanks for tuning in!!
Determined to read this book because Bjorn recommended
Haha! I hope you enjoy it!
I’m about to buy this book but, is it very scientific or not?
Yes, Sapolsky is a neuroscientist. Professor of biology, neurology, and neurosurgery.
Can anyone explain why is he happy?
Who? Sapolsky?
@@BookLabBjorn you. Dude this is hell. I hate being negative but im so depressed and about to drop of my elec eng major since I realized this. ig i’ll never win this battle.
Sorry abt that.
Love from Saudi ❤️🇸🇦
Ah, I see. I guess I kinda knew this was the case before I read the book. It’s quite obvious that “free will” is an illusion if you study physics, biology and neuroscience.
I guess I got this realization slowly over many years and hence it didn’t disturb me as much as if I would have gotten the full realization all at ones.
I don’t know, I still “choose” to be happy I guess.
A book that hit me really hard was “Straw Dogs” by John Gray. I put a review up of it… damn… that’s a depressing view on the human predicament to say the least.
@@BookLabBjorn thanks for all that. Tht book seems interesting, i’ll def check it out. I wish u a happy life. 🫶
@anotherone5137 you too! I hope you feel better soon 😀
I was very much underwhelmed by the book.
It’s chewy
Is this book available in Hungarian?
That’s a good question. It might take some time for translations to come out because it’s quite a niche book and it’s quite a bit of translation that needs to be done (and done right.) . Any Hungarians that know?! 🤔