Or give him a job setting standards for Irish teachers in the Irish education system. That would be a poison chalice as 90% of Irish teachers would have to go back to school or quit.
Review of vowels : 0:25 Labial consonants (Broad=lips pushed out, further forward than in English. Slender=lips spread out against teeth, further back than English) : 4:00 Ph, bh, mh : 8:00 Slender s: 18:13 Alveolar dental : 20:30 (Broad, coronal/tongue front consonants. Comparison between Irish and English) Slender t, d : 22:38 S : 24:55 T : 26:51 D : 29:05 N: 32:29 L : 37:25 R : 47:08
3rd comment on this video, but I just wanted to refute a few of the other commenters by saying that I could listen to you ramble about Irish all day. The tangents and the anecdotes were all charming and the info was awesome.
the value of this video is uncommensanurable, irish is mostly teched based on english prononuce, wich is the most shameful thing Imho, documents like allow people like me who are non natives to FINALLY here the difference and know the truth, and for this i thank you deeply, that being said; Editing of the video should be done, even adjusting the volume, or simply organizing the exposition a tiny bit, will contribute greatly at the quality of the video, and so to say, to the diffusion of irish language, i heartedly hope a more organized and neat version of this and the previous video on vowels will be uploaded, because this is exactly what irish learners need. thank you either way. Edit: the edited version has been posted and is as good as it gets, GRMA!
Fascinating stuff! I'm absolutely raging that we don't get to learn all this in school. I always wondered why the speakers in the cluastuiscint sounded so different to the classroom Irish I was used to. I'm trying to read aloud now thinking of everything you said and I feel like I'm learning the language all over again. It's interesting how remembering that Irish consonants are all further back or forward from what English speakers are used to gives me an almost instant accent, although unfortunately it wanders between munster and donegal because I'm reading Peig but more used to donegal and north mayo sounds...
Fascinating stuff. I would pay you to tutor me online. I'm an intermediate Irish speaker. There is barely any information on this aspect of learning Irish out there.
This is amazing! Im an Australian who has studied a bit of Scottish Gaelic and a lot of these sounds are still taught in your average Gaelic class. It makes Irish MUCH more mutually inteligable to Gàidhlig when the full set of consonants (and especially nasals) are fully pronounced. I had real difficulty understanding the word cnó spoken by an Irish speaker a few months back, and in the end she had to tell me in English. I was like "ohhhhh /krõ:/! I thought you said /kno:/!" She couldnt hear the difference but for me it meant i couldnt understand at all
54:00 The Munster pronunciation of "mire" on Teanglann definitely sounds like it has an English "r". Actually I've noticed that a lot of the recordings on there (and on Foclóir) use more English-sounding Rs than you or the IPA would suggest. Are those recordings by native speakers? Is this just a generational sound change? I've noticed the same thing with the Sibéal voice on TCD's Abair service as well as the new text-to-speech on Duolingo (which I think might be the same voice). The phonology sounds very English. Anyone else noticing this too?
There are three Munster speakers used by Teanglann (I think Foclóir uses the same ones), the youngest of them rarely uses the slender r (uses English r for broad and slender r), the other two are fine and outside of the rs the youngest one is fine too. The new Duolingo audio uses Microsofts Irish text to speech audio and it is atrociously bad. Yes it is one hundred percent English phonology, standard 'school Irish' stuff basically. The dialect recordings you can choose for Abair were good from what I remember but I am not familiar with Sibéal, might look tomorrow!
The reason for this in the case of the Duo/Microsoft audio is poorly learned Irish thanks to the Irish school system, almost every student learns the language without Irish sounds and with almost all English phonemes bar the lenited/fricative ch sound in some cases. In the case of younger native speakers it has to do with the fragile linguistic reality of many Gaeltacht areas with less speakers raised each generation and increasing pressure and influence of English on each new generation of native speakers.
@@CCc-sb9ojwouldn’t you love to overhaul the standards for primary and secondary school teachers in Ireland. Imagine the backlash from the civil service and teachers unions.
You really do need a script for these kinds of things. While I do enjoy tangents, they get in the way of the education. Otherwise, good shit. Can't wait for more.
I have finally, at 34 years of age, learned *why* I pronounce mór like i do. (Raised and taught in South Tipp by local teachers.) For a while there i was starting to become self-conscious that it was a bad habit or pronunciation I'd picked up as a child and I'd been saying it wrong my entire life.
It's good information, but it would very helpful if you could place more emphasis on saying the sounds for the viewer to hear using words with the sounds as well as the sounds on their own. I recommend the book Blas na Gàidhlig (Scottish Gaelic pronunciation) if you are looking for ideas on good ways to present this kind of stuff to a general audience. Your videos are great, just need a little bit of editing.
Wow! Físeán iontach! ☀️ I’m blown away by how much you know about the Irish language. 😮 I think I struggle most with my slender r’s…I can do the “zh” version pretty well, but not so much the “palatalized tap.” If you don’t mind my asking, I was wondering what exactly is the tongue placement of that sound; as in what is doing the tapping (tip or blade) and what is it tapping on? 🤔
Funny fact: the velarisation of L happened in Polish language - in this language there are slender L (propounced just as the Irish one) but there is no broad L -- they have this sound replaced with [w] sound instead (marked with the letter "Ł"). Other Slavic languages still retain broad L in those words where Polish has this [w] / Ł.
Many East Slavic languages have many pairs of broad vs slender consonants, except it's called hard and soft instead. Russian, for example, has these pairs: Б vs Бь (B) В vs Вь (V) Г vs Гь (G) Д vs Дь (D) З vs Зь (Z) К vs Кь (K) Л vs Ль (L) М vs Мь (M) Н vs Нь (N) П vs Пь (P) Р vs Рь (R) С vs Сь (S) Т vs Ть (T) Ф vs Фь (F) Х vs Хь (Kh) The remaining consonants, Ж, Й, Ц, Ч, Ш, Щ (J, Y, Ts, Ch, Sh, Shch) are all unpaired.
@@sapphoenixthefirebird5063 thank you for stating the obvious - Russian and Ukrainian are my native languages,so I am quite well aware of what you’ve written to me 😂🤣😂
You'll plan a proper video when you have time but the ones you have are almost an hour long each and in dire need of editing 😂😂 Thanks for the content though, I don't see any other channels with info of this quality
While very interesting it seems a rather neurotic language. I once had a conversation with a Dutch scholar who had learnt both Irish and Welsh and he was a fierce proponent of the former. He loved the purity of it, the complexity of it, the pronunciation rules, the muscular idioms. He regarded Welsh as a rather degenerated poor relation, full of Latin and lacking ‘authenticity.’ My response: “That may well be. But people *speak* Welsh. From the manor house to the council house it is spoken and is alive.” And in the end that’s what matters, not picking over some minutiae of a language that has to all purposes died out as a community, living language.
I enjoyed this very much, but, wow, am I glad I chose to learn Welsh and not Irish! No reflection on the beauty of the language, but the level of difficulty is rather mind blowing.
This is very very interesting info but you've had 2 and half years to prepare for it lad. If you'd had a script or a plan to stick to you could have shaved 20 minutes or more off this video 😂
I need to hear you say that Irish word for grandmother and son and grandson. Those are the only words that are important to me. I learned the rest later. I know this spelling "seanmhàthair" but I can't find enough information to tell me how to pronounce it I know the Scottish comes out sounding like "Sean of air", that is if you cram it close together, or (shawn•ə•vairr) on a good day. I've heard it pronounced the same way on these learn how to pronounce videos but I haven't found and authentic language speaker yet. Until I found you I'll search your library, but if you can message me back and explain how to pronounce it on pretty sure I would catch on. I am a bit of a hobby etymologist. I ace the straightforward phonetic languages (Español, Turkiç) that don't have the damn many rules and exceptions and exclusions and conditions and... I have to stop now, jeez, I'm pulling out my hair! lol
I'm currently in 5th year and can confirm that I've never once heard a breath of the subject of this video from any Irish teacher I've had in the past. A lot of this stuff I had to go out and learn by myself, which would be far easier if teachers knew this stuff from the beginning. While communication is important, it's fair to say that an important part of any language is pronunciation. Of course, to each their own - I'd never tell anyone (obviously) to go out of their way to learn this stuff, god knows it's hard enough to do anyway. But personally, I don't really understand why someone wouldn't want to learn our national language at least to the point of having decent sounding pronunciation, because honestly having a good accent while speaking any language adds strongly to how well someone could be able to communicate with native speakers (or that is to say, with any other speaker of that Irish, whether a native, a fluent speaker or a learner).
That's fine if you don't mind having a strong accent in the language, but it's typical for anyone learning a language to try to get as close to a native pronunciation as possible. If this isn't something you see value in, then videos like this aren't for you, and that's fine. It's for people who want to minimise their accent.
This mindset is exactly why Irish is in such a horrible state nowadays. Yes, what you sound like it absolutely important and preserving our language properly very much matters.
![fellow fellow - พรุ่งนี้ไม่มีใครรู้ feat. INK WARUNTORN [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QP6JyjYx_W0/mqdefault.jpg)
The fate of the Irish language hangs on this man posting more videos
I wish he'd use a script and stop waffling!
Or give him a job setting standards for Irish teachers in the Irish education system. That would be a poison chalice as 90% of Irish teachers would have to go back to school or quit.
I love your style, and delivery of all your teaching videos--- please, share again, when you are able.. ❤🎉🎉🎉
Review of vowels : 0:25
Labial consonants (Broad=lips pushed out, further forward than in English. Slender=lips spread out against teeth, further back than English) : 4:00
Ph, bh, mh : 8:00
Slender s: 18:13
Alveolar dental : 20:30
(Broad, coronal/tongue front consonants. Comparison between Irish and English)
Slender t, d : 22:38
S : 24:55
T : 26:51
D : 29:05
N: 32:29
L : 37:25
R : 47:08
Go raibh MÍLE maith agat..
An-chabhrach! GRMA
Doin the lords work!
3rd comment on this video, but I just wanted to refute a few of the other commenters by saying that I could listen to you ramble about Irish all day. The tangents and the anecdotes were all charming and the info was awesome.
I agree this is true wisdom
Please never stop making these videos! You are SO helpful and so incredibly appreciated!
the value of this video is uncommensanurable, irish is mostly teched based on english prononuce, wich is the most shameful thing Imho, documents like allow people like me who are non natives to FINALLY here the difference and know the truth, and for this i thank you deeply, that being said; Editing of the video should be done, even adjusting the volume, or simply organizing the exposition a tiny bit, will contribute greatly at the quality of the video, and so to say, to the diffusion of irish language, i heartedly hope a more organized and neat version of this and the previous video on vowels will be uploaded, because this is exactly what irish learners need. thank you either way.
Edit: the edited version has been posted and is as good as it gets, GRMA!
"I won't get into that." I'd happily watch the version in which you do. Ramble on! 😃
Parlez vous Français?
Labial consonants (Broad=lips pushed out, further forward than in English. Slender=lips spread out against teeth, further back than English) : 4:00
Fascinating stuff! I'm absolutely raging that we don't get to learn all this in school. I always wondered why the speakers in the cluastuiscint sounded so different to the classroom Irish I was used to. I'm trying to read aloud now thinking of everything you said and I feel like I'm learning the language all over again. It's interesting how remembering that Irish consonants are all further back or forward from what English speakers are used to gives me an almost instant accent, although unfortunately it wanders between munster and donegal because I'm reading Peig but more used to donegal and north mayo sounds...
Fascinating stuff. I would pay you to tutor me online. I'm an intermediate Irish speaker. There is barely any information on this aspect of learning Irish out there.
Listening to you in bed with bad cold slaghdán. Please forgive my terrible Irish spelling.
You are very, very interesting and informative and above all highly inspiring.
This is amazing! Im an Australian who has studied a bit of Scottish Gaelic and a lot of these sounds are still taught in your average Gaelic class. It makes Irish MUCH more mutually inteligable to Gàidhlig when the full set of consonants (and especially nasals) are fully pronounced. I had real difficulty understanding the word cnó spoken by an Irish speaker a few months back, and in the end she had to tell me in English. I was like "ohhhhh /krõ:/! I thought you said /kno:/!"
She couldnt hear the difference but for me it meant i couldnt understand at all
So good to see a new video from this absolute legend!! Hopefully there’s a few more released in 2021
For the love of all that is good and holy, what is your name?
Alveolar dental : 20:30 to 21.50
(Broad, coronal/tongue front consonants. Comparison between Irish and English)
thank you
Can you give us any good resources on the topics you have discussed and will discuss
i paused the video at 8:55 to experience the joy of retraining myself to pronounce all f sounds using upper teeth + lower lip
I’d say you’d make a great teacher on Italki if you ever had a bit of time now.
One video every couple of years - At this rate, it'll take me a hundred years to learn this language! ;)
54:00 The Munster pronunciation of "mire" on Teanglann definitely sounds like it has an English "r". Actually I've noticed that a lot of the recordings on there (and on Foclóir) use more English-sounding Rs than you or the IPA would suggest. Are those recordings by native speakers? Is this just a generational sound change?
I've noticed the same thing with the Sibéal voice on TCD's Abair service as well as the new text-to-speech on Duolingo (which I think might be the same voice). The phonology sounds very English.
Anyone else noticing this too?
There are three Munster speakers used by Teanglann (I think Foclóir uses the same ones), the youngest of them rarely uses the slender r (uses English r for broad and slender r), the other two are fine and outside of the rs the youngest one is fine too.
The new Duolingo audio uses Microsofts Irish text to speech audio and it is atrociously bad. Yes it is one hundred percent English phonology, standard 'school Irish' stuff basically.
The dialect recordings you can choose for Abair were good from what I remember but I am not familiar with Sibéal, might look tomorrow!
The reason for this in the case of the Duo/Microsoft audio is poorly learned Irish thanks to the Irish school system, almost every student learns the language without Irish sounds and with almost all English phonemes bar the lenited/fricative ch sound in some cases.
In the case of younger native speakers it has to do with the fragile linguistic reality of many Gaeltacht areas with less speakers raised each generation and increasing pressure and influence of English on each new generation of native speakers.
@@CCc-sb9ojwouldn’t you love to overhaul the standards for primary and secondary school teachers in Ireland. Imagine the backlash from the civil service and teachers unions.
He returns
This is fantastic!
I started watching this video and couldn't stop. It's super interesting even for a newbie like me
You really do need a script for these kinds of things. While I do enjoy tangents, they get in the way of the education. Otherwise, good shit. Can't wait for more.
Great advice, Sir. I am still trying to work out where you could be from. Cuil Aodha?.
i love his accent, anyone knows where is he from? I know Ireland but that's all
I’d say Kerry.
I have finally, at 34 years of age, learned *why* I pronounce mór like i do. (Raised and taught in South Tipp by local teachers.)
For a while there i was starting to become self-conscious that it was a bad habit or pronunciation I'd picked up as a child and I'd been saying it wrong my entire life.
It's good information, but it would very helpful if you could place more emphasis on saying the sounds for the viewer to hear using words with the sounds as well as the sounds on their own. I recommend the book Blas na Gàidhlig (Scottish Gaelic pronunciation) if you are looking for ideas on good ways to present this kind of stuff to a general audience. Your videos are great, just need a little bit of editing.
Wow! Físeán iontach! ☀️ I’m blown away by how much you know about the Irish language. 😮 I think I struggle most with my slender r’s…I can do the “zh” version pretty well, but not so much the “palatalized tap.” If you don’t mind my asking, I was wondering what exactly is the tongue placement of that sound; as in what is doing the tapping (tip or blade) and what is it tapping on? 🤔
Oh my God, oh my God, finally!
27:48 where can I read this article?
Tá fáilthe romhat thar n-ais, a mhic
What is the name of the book by Mairtin Verling?
Knowing that bh is pronounced bilabially makes the ulster pronunciation of 'raibh' make a lot more sense.
it helps to bare in mind that in dialectal spelling it's as well
people have only written since the introduction of the written standard, and even then many didn't/don't
(in Ulster, to clarify)
@@jakenadalachgile1836 yes, I've also seen 'robh' quite often
@@ferncat1397 yes that's even the form in standard scottish gaelic, I believe
You should be the Minister for Heritage and the Gaeltacht.
Will I be asked that for the Hons Gaeilge LC as an Adult
Thank you, immensly!!🤗🏆
Is' each' a horse in Scots Gaelic and Old Donegal Irish?
What about Italian? Or other Romance Languages?
This room looks very familiar too me
A prospective German & Gaeilge Muinteor here in the making 😅😂
Funny fact: the velarisation of L happened in Polish language - in this language there are slender L (propounced just as the Irish one) but there is no broad L -- they have this sound replaced with [w] sound instead (marked with the letter "Ł"). Other Slavic languages still retain broad L in those words where Polish has this [w] / Ł.
Many East Slavic languages have many pairs of broad vs slender consonants, except it's called hard and soft instead. Russian, for example, has these pairs:
Б vs Бь (B)
В vs Вь (V)
Г vs Гь (G)
Д vs Дь (D)
З vs Зь (Z)
К vs Кь (K)
Л vs Ль (L)
М vs Мь (M)
Н vs Нь (N)
П vs Пь (P)
Р vs Рь (R)
С vs Сь (S)
Т vs Ть (T)
Ф vs Фь (F)
Х vs Хь (Kh)
The remaining consonants, Ж, Й, Ц, Ч, Ш, Щ (J, Y, Ts, Ch, Sh, Shch) are all unpaired.
@@sapphoenixthefirebird5063 thank you for stating the obvious - Russian and Ukrainian are my native languages,so I am quite well aware of what you’ve written to me 😂🤣😂
Some Scottish Gaelic dialects likewise vocalise the broad L into [w]!
You'll plan a proper video when you have time but the ones you have are almost an hour long each and in dire need of editing 😂😂
Thanks for the content though, I don't see any other channels with info of this quality
Just realised I commented a year ago as well. Shows this guy is the best source, despite going off topic so often
My gum ridge is sore at the moment. Irish is Celtic and English is Germanic.
Vielen Dank
is anyone else getting tripped out by the objects in the background
A very busy man gan dabht
While very interesting it seems a rather neurotic language. I once had a conversation with a Dutch scholar who had learnt both Irish and Welsh and he was a fierce proponent of the former. He loved the purity of it, the complexity of it, the pronunciation rules, the muscular idioms.
He regarded Welsh as a rather degenerated poor relation, full of Latin and lacking ‘authenticity.’
My response: “That may well be. But people *speak* Welsh. From the manor house to the council house it is spoken and is alive.”
And in the end that’s what matters, not picking over some minutiae of a language that has to all purposes died out as a community, living language.
Sh or s are sounds in Arabic or even Hebrew and other Semitic languages.
Do you have a PhD in Irish, OLoinseach?
The Lingual consonants?
Would you be interested in giving private coaching over skype to a pidgin irish speaker?
Is 'Conona' a Latin or Greek word?
Manx?
Tá go maith, a Loinseach
Go raibh mile maith, agat, a chara.
What about Russian?
GRMMA !
I am from Clare, but not from Doolin.
Are you a Speech Therapist, too? ,
An Rinn (Ring)
he?
9:17 PH
#saveallthedialects
❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉
Newfoundland
I enjoyed this very much, but, wow, am I glad I chose to learn Welsh and not Irish! No reflection on the beauty of the language, but the level of difficulty is rather mind blowing.
❤🤗🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰❤🏆🏆🏆
This is very very interesting info but you've had 2 and half years to prepare for it lad. If you'd had a script or a plan to stick to you could have shaved 20 minutes or more off this video 😂
Caol nó leathan
Mo bhicycle
I need to hear you say that Irish word for grandmother and son and grandson. Those are the only words that are important to me. I learned the rest later. I know this spelling "seanmhàthair" but I can't find enough information to tell me how to pronounce it I know the Scottish comes out sounding like "Sean of air", that is if you cram it close together, or (shawn•ə•vairr) on a good day. I've heard it pronounced the same way on these learn how to pronounce videos but I haven't found and authentic language speaker yet. Until I found you I'll search your library, but if you can message me back and explain how to pronounce it on pretty sure I would catch on. I am a bit of a hobby etymologist. I ace the straightforward phonetic languages (Español, Turkiç) that don't have the damn many rules and exceptions and exclusions and conditions and... I have to stop now, jeez, I'm pulling out my hair! lol
Im Irish ..i was taught all of these sounds in primary ..tbh i think people are taught more than they like to believe ...but unpractised you forget
I'm currently in 5th year and can confirm that I've never once heard a breath of the subject of this video from any Irish teacher I've had in the past. A lot of this stuff I had to go out and learn by myself, which would be far easier if teachers knew this stuff from the beginning.
While communication is important, it's fair to say that an important part of any language is pronunciation. Of course, to each their own - I'd never tell anyone (obviously) to go out of their way to learn this stuff, god knows it's hard enough to do anyway. But personally, I don't really understand why someone wouldn't want to learn our national language at least to the point of having decent sounding pronunciation, because honestly having a good accent while speaking any language adds strongly to how well someone could be able to communicate with native speakers (or that is to say, with any other speaker of that Irish, whether a native, a fluent speaker or a learner).
also it doesn't matter what you sound like if you get the phonemes ...once you can be understood ...don't obsess its about communication
That's fine if you don't mind having a strong accent in the language, but it's typical for anyone learning a language to try to get as close to a native pronunciation as possible.
If this isn't something you see value in, then videos like this aren't for you, and that's fine. It's for people who want to minimise their accent.
This mindset is exactly why Irish is in such a horrible state nowadays. Yes, what you sound like it absolutely important and preserving our language properly very much matters.
"Age quod agis" - Whatever you do, do it well