This Klipper Controller Is Feature Packed! (LDO Leviathan)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
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In this video we take a look at the brand new Leviathan board from LDO. This is a controller that was made in collaboration with JNP and the Voron team specifically for Klipper firmware. It has some nice features like built in 5160s, CANBUS, and connectivity for a Raspberry Pi.
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I can understand the concerns about soldered drivers.
That's why there are components on Leviathan to protect the drivers.
Each driver output has limiting components (Varistors) that limit the back EMF to a level that the drivers can withstand. In addition, the supply voltages are also limited (suppressor diodes).
The bulk capacitors have discharge resistors to ensure a safe power (up/down) sequence.
The big advantage of soldered-on drivers is that they are better cooled and can be supplied much better than the stepstick drivers.
This alone makes the steppers run more smoothly without having to make extra TMC settings. Of course, this can be optimized by making the appropriate settings.
Sincerely JNP
We need more choices outside BTT.
I feel like makerbase boards are good, a bit cheaper too
There are Mellow Boards as well. I run a super 8 and it works amazing.
_"We need more choices outside BTT"_
Choice between what? Between STM32F446, TMC2209, Klipper and STM32F446, TMC2209, Klipper???
At least BTT gave us a real choice between Raspberry Pi and CB1/BTT Pi especially when over hyped Rasperry Pi business totally collapsed during COVID times pushing RPi prices up to insanity. But this one gives us nothing but the higher price than BTT.
@otroe the larger makerbase boards seem to have a lot of little caveats and the documentation seems even worse than BTT's, otoh their thr36 is a nice step up over BTT's EBB36
I really liked the placement of the pi and the built in power for it.
With Voron Phoenix coming, we really need MCUs with 4 high power drivers for gantry. I hope LDO is cooking an upgrade for this pretty nice board.
Also, would be good to have an option to use CM4/CM5
Great video, as always. I would love to see a video of the installation process of the LDO Leviathan board and Nitehawk-SB toolboard in your LDO Voron 2.4.
definitely looking forward to buy one. This specs are just perfect. Having the TMC5160 for X and Y is really nice.
Nice! I got it on my bucketlist for my v2.4 350 which I'm planning to build, together with the Nitehawk. I was planning 48v for the A/B motors... I'm hoping to get my hands on them very soon 🤩
Interesing board!
Great video as always 🙂
Thank you :)
This looks great. I've been browsing the Duet boards but they're kinda pricey for what I need.
Would love to see a full build with this board
Finally, a review of this board. As a newbie, I'm perplexed about uploading the software. I used an Octopus1 in my 2.4 for the first six months, and it worked fine after a very frustrating month trying to get the Octopus and Pi 4 to talk to each other. Finally, it started working for unknown reasons, and then one day, it just stopped working for unknown reasons. Gave up on the Octopus. Decided to try Leviatan. Still working on trying to hook up. Does not have enough 24v fan connectors for two Nevermores. Not sure where to connect Tap. While the documentation seems better than other BQQ and Voron docs, it still skips over a lot of basic stuff that we newbies are supposed to, somehow, know. I have spent the last week studying ST Cube. Hopefully, it will make sense at some point.
As a 2.4 owner between this and the BTT Kraken, i would go for the kraken. If i only ever plan a stock build this would be fine, but this would be a no go for AWD. Even a Octopus would be a better choice with the expandability option of off board 5160s.
Looks like a really nice and thought out board. Love the Pi and Canbus integration! 5160's are nice too, though it might have been better to make them replaceable?
I really love having great documentation. Most of the hobby/DIY printers use stuff from companies that have TERRIBLE documentation (I'm looking at you BTT), where you can't find anything, the install commands contain errors, important parts are missing etc. Sometimes Reddit or some random facebook group is much more help than the official docs.
I am trying the Leviathan and so far very happy with it. I made some mistakes flashing the CAN BUS firmware after initially setting it to USB only and it would give constant timer errors when doing rapid movements, but it was my fault because I didn't fully erase the flash before changing to CAN Bridge mode.
Im glad you were able to get that resolved. I’ve had my fair share of issues with the can set up process. It’s been very stable once set up.
@@ModBotArmy It's currently setup with 36v on the AB motors and 4 Z steppers the EEB36 v1.2 board for everything else including a BTT micro probe. Once I have a bit more use on this new printer I will make a video with how it's performing and the things that I messed on on the flashing side. LDO did change the docs after I found the serial port changed depending on the mode it's in.
Highly suggest doing a trident style printer with the inverted ebay for test bed printer. Makes working on electronics a lot easier
While I may never need it , I feel not having replaceable drivers make it's DOA for me.
Just bought one for a new V2.4 build. So far, the only thing I don't like is the 350ma limit for LED lighting. Fortunately, there's enough fan outputs that I'll use for lighting instead.
I didn't know there was such a thing as Voron AWD but now I need it
To the point, no fuss and clear info as always. You're the best. Thanks. Very sweet board. But lack 12V fan. Not a show stopper of course. But I expect this to be available on this kind of more expensive board.
Thank you for the kind words. It’s funny as I went through it I didn’t put much thought into not having 12v because I am always using 24v. However it seems like there is quite a few using noctuas. I do know they released 24v versions but I believe size may be limited. I could also see 12v port being nice to use LEDs you have laying around. I know I have a handful of 12v strips I purchased years ago.
@@ModBotArmy Those are my use-cases too. I have 12V LED (non-adressable) running on my 2.4 and it does happen that we have 12V fans. Having a board deciding that there is no jumper to select voltages make sense (to save cost) but having a board with jumpers that omits 12V is weird and not a plus.
Don't most of these 3D printer control boards switch the low side of their fans? If that's the case, supplying 12V power from a different source and using the ground on the fan connector should work.
a small 12V buck converter should solve this, or get different fans
@@alanb76 the board actually has a onboard 12v buck already, it is needed for the mosfet driver anyways. It would be very easy to add a 12v jumper or two. I guess they didnt care for it since all ldo kits come with 24v or 5v everything.
I can't see why you couldn't run Marlin or Reprap firmware on this board. The provision for the RPi wouldn't be needed, unless you want to run Octopi though. Both Marlin and Reprap firmwares do, or shortly will, support input shaping and pressure advance. The tmc2209 stepper drivers can be used to drive the A/B motors in a core XY or other drive system printer with a bed size of less than 250mm, though acceleration may have to be a bit limited. I do agree that it is with Klipper that this board really shines. When I first saw the board, I was looking for the connector for the compute module, as I thought that was what was intended to be mounted in the open area, not a full RPi SBC. Perhaps they will make a version of the board that uses a compute module in the future, though if you want to use one of those, an adapter for these is available that converts these to a RPi pinout layout. It's nice to have a good BTT alternative!
Who else does the finger swipe with modbot at the start of video?
Finally someone covered it!!!
This is the board I have
How are you liking it so far?
it's pretty awesome,
I'm running a traditional harness and pcb but I've pre ordered the nitehawk pcb and I think it'll be a great match when I go umbilical on my 2.4
Currently running ldo super powers on AB
Yeah....I like it
You're like the third video on the internet about this board
The other two are German
Lol
Hey, how's it going man, I've seen a bunch of your videos over the past year and they've all been really informative, and helpful! I appreciate you, and I am considering this board because I have tried literally EVERY good BTT board, M8P, M5P, Octopus, Krakeen, and on and on.... I rebuilt a CreatBot F430 into an real extremely high temp printer, bed up to 220, chamber up to 180, nozzle up to 550, I used 2 5160 drivers on X and Y, and 2209 for the rest, then additional heat from 4 additional heaters on SSRs/Mosfets, and it works great now, but BTT boards and all of the configs I wrote for each board keep failing. obviously, I can just change the serial ID, and pin definitions, but I landed on the M8P for that and the 300mm VORON I built, and between the 2 have been through like 6-7 boards. Sooooooo frustrating, do you think this board has any place on a high-temperature build like that? Or if not do you have any other recommendations? I really appreciate any time you take to consider. Thank you.
It's a shame they didn't put in CM4/CB1 support on top of the pi mounting holes. All that excitement for this board while it misses on something that became quite important imo. Almost all recent boards have CM4/CB1 support.
adding a cm4 pi carrier would solve this. simply adding a cm4 connector would not, as all the Pi I/O would have to be pinned out somehow.
Just picked this board up and getting ready to overhaul my 2.4 to canbus. Question though, and this is coming from a noob, can you do sensorless homing with the built in drivers? With the separate TMC2209 drivers you have to put in it them in diag mode for X and Y with a jumper. Is it software driven with the Leviathan? Any help or pointing me in the right direction would be helpful, thanks.
quad z and 48v x/y got my attention immediately
Is there something like this for the V0.2? Would be nice to have one board with everything on it instead of two and wires everywhere
This board looks sick! Only wish there was a 12v fan option, as I run Noctuas for PCB cooling. I think you're right that they'll swap out the Octopus for Leviathan
you can always throw in a stepdown module to add a 12v rail
Did you see that Noctua actually released 24v fans? I think this was in the last couple of months. That being said I dont know that its in the same sizes you are wanting.
Get a skrat board, it’s amazing, you have 4x 2 pin fan with 5v 12v 24v jumpers of your choice, 2x 4pin fan 5v 12v 24v jumpers as well.
@@BEACHTECH3D first time I have heard of this board.
@@ModBotArmy I just built a corexy out of an ender3 and I got a BTT SKRat board, and I just love it, it literally has everything on it that I needed for my build.
But yes this board isn’t popular at all, but I think it should be because it offers much more flexibility than the “popular” btt boards
For that price I’ll stick wit the bat octopus pro
How drop in is this into say an LDO rev C kit. Will I be re terminateing the harness or is it the same connectors
What about the price and how it compares to alternatives ?
I would be very intrested with a comparison with the BTT Kraken and the LDO Leviathan, Seems like the Leviathan has the 5160 while the Kraken is better on the other things
I did get the Kraken in as well. It seems like a bulkier board but a great option for someone looking to do an AWD build. I don't know that I will do a direct comparison but if there is enough interest I can do a similar overview/dive video like I did for the Leviathan.
The kraken uses 2160, the only difference is extra features that aren't really used in 3d printers so I wouldn't worry about it
it's perfect their logo is a flexi dragon since that's all anyone prints anymore..
If I don’t have a flexi dragon in my irl market people get offended. What’s up with that
*looks at 3D printed thermostatic capillary supports and strain relief clips on the Langendorff isolated heart perfusion system*
*Looks at half a dozen assorted test tube holders*
Yep, sure love printing Flexi dragons, no one prints anything else.
Seems like it has almost everything you might need for modern corexy. Nice part - capacitors. 2 cap per motor. Not so nice part - soldered drivers. Maybe someone can explain what's the point? Does not seem like price reduction.
Definitely better option as stock board for LDO kit instead Octopus. Since you don't have to throw away whole board if you want use higher voltage AB motors. But.. it's not clear what's the pros compared to Octopus Pro.
Saves money, reduces connector counts (connectors are less reliable than soldering). Improved cooling. Blowing drivers used to be a thing, very rare these days. Modern drivers are well protected. Chips can be unsoldered and replaced if necessary. Plenty of modern boards use soldered drivers.
Cool, but the Btt kraken is days from release and it seem to cost almost exactly the same. No mounting spot for a pi though, but I also don't think the pi5 has the same mounting dimensions as the pi3 and 4? So would suck if that's what you planned to use.
I could be wrong but I thought I was told pi 5 is not currently compatible with klipper. Don’t quote me though. I can’t recall where I heard that.
@@ModBotArmy seem odd since "klipper" can be put on essentially any computer. But overheard a convo on discord that the pi5 is currently not entirely recommended as there's some weirdness with its graphics and crowsnest
I've had my Kraken for a good few weeks now! It's great, you should be able to buy one from BTT, they are already released
@@ModBotArmyNo, I'm running a Pi 5, it works fine but you have to manually install Klipper. The MainsailOS in the raspberry pi flasher doesn't work. Apart from that I've had zero issues :)
Also take a look at the Kraken, I believe it's already out, I've been using it for a few weeks and it's fantastic!
@@weeurey Really? Thought they released on the 25th?
I "might" have heard LDO is working on a expansion board to offer additional drivers.
Sweet! I feel like with the expansion slots it only makes sense for someone wanting to do AWD.
Well now there's the kraken and tbh I'd rather have my drivers replaceable
Is LDO going to start including this board with their kits?
It would make sense to me but I have not heard anything confirming that yet.
I’m somewhat new to diy 3d printing so forgive me if I sound dumb but is this board a controller that runs on its own or does it need a raspberry pi?
Klipper runs on a Pi and on the controller, splits the workload. This board is designed for that setup.
"Without further ado, let's get to todays video"
*Cuts to a sponsor read*
I think that phrase has lost some meaning
Skip forwards is your friend.
My complaint is that he gives a concise and informative intro, then tells us everything he just said was pointless BS by saying, "without further ado." I think a lot of Yt'ers got into the habit of saying this without knowing what it means, then never stopped.
@@Becvar80 Don't forget the "What's up TH-cam" and "on this channel" and "I'm your host.." that everyone and their dog now says too.
My only complaint about the Leviathan (so far) is that there is no socket for an SD card.
Klipper so your files get sent over lan/wlan to the sd card that lives in the RPi mounted on the Leviathan
@@geauxracerx So, if I copy the firmware.bin file to the SD in the Pi, the board will automatically find it and boot from it? Shouldn’t the documentation say something about this? Thanks.
@@samstaton7215 with other boards you make a firmware file in Klipper on your RPi/host device and it can flash the board over UART/USB/or even sd for boards that require from sd.
Going out on a limb here, but with this board designed for Klipper I’m guessing it’s over UART through that RPi hat that attaches to the RPi’s gpio pins. Hitch also powers the RPi from the Leviathan.
Once you go Klipper you don’t miss having to use sd cards
Any aliexpress link? 👀
I don’t think LDO sells through Aliexpress
Nice board but i never trust boards which has onboard drivers (tmc).
not being user replaceable is an issue for me as well.
Shame the drivers are soldered and not push in.
Has this ever been an issue? Out of all of my printers ever I have had one that died and it was from the printer dropping when I moved causing the toolhead to generate current that was sent back to the board.
The problem with the stepstick form factor is that you are limited in how much current you can use on it. These pins are rated for 3 A (and this is Dupont specification, no way to know how much the Chinese knock-offs really support), and that's fine for most motors. But when you have TMC5160 drivers that can provide up to 10 A of current (depending on how the auxiliary circuit is built), you only have the option of soldering the driver directly on the board to be able to handle that much current.
In all honesty stepsticks should be abandoned due to those limitations, but there isn't a clear form factor to upgrade to at the moment.
@@vinnycordeiro Good point but the motor header pins are JST or Dupont with very similar capacity. The big advantage of the 5160 is it's higher voltage at 48v you halve the current and reduce the size of the wires and conductors.
@@ModBotArmy Yes, I once popped a 2209 by pulling the filament out of a Bowden tube. without de clutching the extruder. I think flexibility and upgradability is worth paying for.
@@landroveraddict2457That's not how stepper drivers works. The actual voltage it sends to the motor is related to the current that is defined on your config file and the resistance/inductance of the motor's coils.
The higher VMOT voltage is useful to counter the back EMF induced voltage: the faster the motor spins, the higher the voltage that the shaft's magnets induces in the coils. Because of that you need higher voltages on the driver to counter the back EMF induced one. And people uses 48V to be able to push the print speed to a higher limit than is possible with 24V.
The ldo leviathan is honestly disappointing. Compared to other mainboards in its price range such as the BTT kraken, BTT manta m8p, BTT octopus derivatives, and fystec spider king it lacks comparable features and value when configured in a similarly with 2 x tmc 5160 + 6 x tmc 2209 (100-110 USD for a similar manta m8p/octopus non-sale without canbus toolhead.)
The leviathan has been strictly designed for bare bones/ stock core xy 3d printer builds like the voron trident, 2.4, ratrigs, and hevorts with the REQUIREMENT of an additional canbus toolhead. The leviathan only comes with FOUR fan ports which will be immediately used the support the four electronics bay fans in voron 3d printers leaving no additional fan ports for auxiliary fans or worse ports for the part cooling and hot end fan if you chose not to use a canbus or breakout tool head board. The leviathan also does not support 12 volt power to its which could be used to power numerous 12 volt fans and 12 volt leds.
Too much attention was given to the stepper drivers, power delivery, and power protection that other features were essentially neglected ie more fan ports, extra neopixel ports, etc even though its competitors are also able to provide the same stepper driver, power delivery, and power protection (BTT kraken,BTT octopus max ez, BTT manta m8p, fystec spider king). Unnecessary features like a dedicated mounting space for a raspberry pi was added in a mainboard designed to be presumably used in voron tridents and 2.4s with ample space in their electronics’ bay. This raspberry pi space could have been used to provide addition io such as extra fan ports, additional neopixel ports, and even a bl touch / servo port. This lack of io limits what mods and addtions can be added to printers utilizing this mainboard relegating this mainboard to be the stock mainboard used in LDO’s future voron kits.
As someone who likes to mod their 3d printers beyond the stock configuration, the ldo leviathan mainboard is just plainly insufficient to do anything other than build a stock printer with the addition of the REQUIRED toolhead board to accommodate the hotend and part cooling fans. Nor can it be used for any cross gantry or awd core xy 3d printers as stated in the video. I just can’t see anyone “upgrading” to the ldo leviathan over the existing BTT, Fystec, and makebase offerings for the price and features the ldo leviathan is offering.
If you use UART port for Raspberry Pi, you can't use Canbus . You forgot to mention that. Also, pay attention to quality control for the board and check the voltage adaptor for the pi ( you can fry your Pi). Not to mention very poor documentation. I tested the board, and I liked it. Not users friendly for beginners (poor documentation ).
When you say poor documentation are you comparing to other controllers? I felt like there was a fair amount of documentation provided for this. What parts did you feel were missing? I don’t generally feel like building a printer is exactly beginner friendly. Can some beginners accomplish it? Sure. But I see frustrated people all the time. You have to enjoy tinkering and some element of problem solving for many builds.
@ModBotArmy . Yes. If you don't have a little bit of knowledge regarding bootloader and firmware, you can brick the board very easily . But I like the board because it is very compact . For me, in a point of view, the board has 8 out of 10. Is like bigtreetech pico
lol 100 dollars do they charge so much to afford the youtube shills
Yes exactly
Why 32bit, that it's useless for me.
What? Why?
32 bit MPUs are less costly these days than 8 bit, and more powerful than needed for the controller functions. The Pi is 64 bit and runs the high end part of the Klipper, which doesn't actually need 64 bits but it's there if you want it. Only the realtime code runs in the 32 bit MPU and it's more than adequate for the task.