I love seeing the comments about how this is done for the money. Have you ever seen a Saddlebred show prize list? The fact is that the ONE biggest class of the year is 100k, when that is a regular grand prix class prize. The average class prize at the biggest rated shows for Saddlebreds are around 1-5k to be split between the exhibitors. There is no "money" incentive, what drives Saddlebred and saddle seat people is the pure love of it! It is an amazing and misunderstood discipline. ++Rack On++
Nice video footage of an exceptional class and memory. For those of you that commented below and don't know, these horses are a pure concentration of talent and athleticism showing off their best. Although it may not "pretty" to equitation standards, staying out of these horses way is sometimes the manner that allows them to show themselves off best. If this was not the case, you certainly wouldn't have a class turnout like what you are watching! More importantly, notice the horse that won. This horse was one of the breeds greatest, and truly depicted the phenomenal "standard" all others aimed to be like. Wild Eyed & Wicked was a victim of a horrible crime where some of the breeds winning-est horses were injected with toxic venom to lame them beyond repair. This horse had to be euthanized and the case was never resolved completely. It was an awful act of bringing Hell onto Earth, where jealousy and human hatred harmed a talented animal that never held a grudge, never fought back, and never hated. May we all learn from this. If you love and admire horses, educate yourselves on breeds, training methods, and politics, people. Our industry is suffering greatly, mostly due to misunderstanding and poor representation. Please celebrate the horse and stop the hating of difference so we can all come together and save what we have left.
Kathy Wilson saddleseat riders don’t wear spurs unless the rider is really just not smart these horses are very energetic and forward naturally and rarely need a tap of a riding whip. jumpers use spurs and if used correctly I don’t think they are abusive. There also isn’t spurs in this video (unless I didn’t see them
I've noticed that on this page and in the comment section, there is no mention of what happened to Wild Eyed and Wicked, the gorgeous horse who won that year's show. Not long after winning the championship, Wicked and four other horses at his stable were injected with some kind of venom in their legs to purposely lame them. Two of the horses survived and went on to show again, but Wicked and the other two had injuries so severe that they had to be put down. To my knowledge, nobody knows who did this to the horses, but it was a sickening act and a tragedy of unbelievable proportions!
Did this happen at a horse show? Arabian trainers used to have their vets numb the hooves, as the horses got sore from standing on the cement after a week. That's why I always asked to be outside in the permanent stalls.
@@ratherbfishing455 This happened at the trainer's barn. It's possible that a rival who knew how good these horses were in the show ring wanted to eliminate the competition, but we'll probably never know for sure!
@@ratherbfishing455 Since Wild-Eyed and Wicked was a two-time national five-gaited champion, I think it's more than likely that somebody wanted him and the other four horses out of the running. Somebody obviously knew which horses in that barn posed the most threat, and wanted them done away with. Since a winning show horse can earn big bucks, and sometimes breeding benefits, there are some people who will do whatever it takes to put somebody else's horse out of the running, even if it ends up harming the animals!
@@JoMarieM World Champion. I had an Arabian who had won National Champion, someone had left its stall door wide open a few days later. This was before stables had to be so careful. In the early 70s, the end of a Saddlebred's tail was burned off at a horse show.
Sounds like people need to learn the difference between Tennessee Walking Horses and Saddlebreds! The USEF sanctions American Saddlebred shows, they do NOT approve of the "Big Lick" soring cruelty. Try to make these horses hold their heads down like Quarter horses. It won't work. Some horses are bred to run fast, some to jump high, these horses are bred to step high and hold their heads that way naturally. Along with their conformation, you have to sit behind their shoulders, otherwise you would interfere with their shoulder movement.
May I just make the point that if you don't like watching this don't. I think it is beautiful, these horses were bred to do this! I ride saddlebreds and I know they LOVE to strut their stuff and an easy going horse anyone could ride goes nuts in the ring and loves it! She gets excited and goes around like she was bred to do this, which she was.
That's rude of you to say that. People know bad stuff goes on in the show world and the animals can't speak up about it, except to go lame, or die. You need to educate people and if they say they've seen something done to the horses, how can you say it didn't happen? Some things are misunderstandings, but humans being humans, they will do their dirty work in the dark where people can't see them and then protest that kind of thing doesn't go on.
I didn't say anything didn't happen. I was just saying this is what a lot of these horses LOVE to do. I know some horses are treated badly but a lot of the best ones aren't.
mawmawvee these horses are not abused. Yes, some trainers may, but do these horses look uncomfortable? No. Please do your research about saddleseat before you judge like this.
As a owner of a friesian x TB x american saddlebred all my dressage trainers always tell me the friesian part of jeri is the one that makes him want to hold his head in the sky.... they obviously haven't seen many saddlebreds!
I swear to god, a person I don't even believe in. If one more person claims this is abuse, I'm going to lose it. If you're calling this cruelty, you need to get up from your electronics and take a step outside. This is no worse than jumping, dressage, barrels, WP, hunt seat. There are questionable things in each discipline. Just because you don't know much about this discipline, do NOT assume it is abusive. You guys seriously need to get your lives together and educate yourselves.
Well then you should pray that God treats you and your loved ones the way these horses are treated then. That sounds fair, doesn't it if they are treated so well.
Jude Campbell the applause makes these horses glow. They were bred to perform. It makes them happy. They love their job and love for it. Why do you think these horses look stressed out?
Most saddlers have a naturally high head carriage. As well as a lofty gait - the weight of the shoes is monitored by regulation. Until you've ridden one of these beauties, you haven't really been able to fly - and that's what it feels like.
I ride saddle seat and it gives you this feeling like " Omg this is the best thing in the world!" it is like a runners high it just gives you a great feeling especially if your horse loves to do it. ours will run in the pasture like this.
Nothing against Quarter and Paint Horses ...not for nothing there are nearly 4.000.000 registratet ones on the whole world! Sliding Stop and Roll backs, or if you can sit and knit a jumper between or just ride them without bridle and westernsaddle in a trail or reining ! Work them in the Castle....thats it!!! Walking so flat and easy ....best to ride!
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
Why do people have to be such idiots to believe this is cruelty? I mean truly stupid! It's beautiful how can you not see?? Saddlebreds are taken better care of then most humans, the money, time, and care put into this is crazy and that's why I love it. People just need to gain experience about saddlebreds and saddleseat in general!!! And if youre commenting negative marks about these horses you've obviously never been around them, ridden, or taken care of them!!! I can think of many negative things to say about every style of riding but I'm educated enough to know that not every horse is beaten or apart of whatever 'cruelty' people are talking about.
Saddlebreds are born with what you are all looking at. Their gate (how their moving their legs) and how they use their necks are natural. Their backs do not get sore from riding unless they have had some injury to the back area somehow (people riding them rarely, if ever, causes back injuries to these beautiful horse). The horses you see on this video are championship horses who were born naturally with their gate and body disposition. Trust me, as a a very strong animal lover and Saddlebred rider and competitor for 11 years these horses are not mistreated in any way. They are treated like kings and queens even if they do lose because so much training and care has gone in making them the great horses they are today. If you want to pick on something , pick on horse races. Jockeys and trainers push and whip their horse until they can go no faster. Now isn't that wrong to you? Many race horses have to be put down right on the race track because they broke an ankle or an artery exploded because the are pushed to hard. Also, racehorses retire at around 4 years old while saddlebreds in this division can compete well into their twenties because they are well taken care of and are naturally gated to do this type of job.
No...they are not. Look sometimes at the chains they use on their feet to get them to raise them so much. Do you know how they work? Do you? Do you know why they are so painful? Do you know why their tails look so disgustingly fake? Do you know about the mutilation they perform on their tails? Clearly...you don't know much of anything.
Just what the TWH people said in the late forties(never mistreated, just like pets) Now look at them can't go to a walking horse show without two or three horses dismissed from the show.
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
some of you people should check out saddlebred videos of stallions in hand and mares and foals in pasture and you will see that saddlebreds are just very upright and have extravagant motion .Its bred into them. They are amazing powerful horses. I have ridden them with no double bridles not saddleseat style and they still travel this way.
+Martha Allen Except I think you confuse the Tennessee Walkers with the Saddlebred. I own a Saddlebred who has, lets face it, the most dedicated care team in the world, not to mention a tremendous will to live. She is far from abused. In fact she spends most of her time just hanging out and being a horse. But get her in the showring and she will perk up big time. Even in a not even close to stressful in hand class at her last show (she's now a spoiled rotten pet!) she stood there parked out with her head up, ears up, and looking around very animatedly. After collecting 2 ribbons that day she was rewarded with a chance to simply graze on some lush green grass until it was time to go home.
This is not near cruelty. These horses have NATURAL motion. We barely use aids to help them lift their legs. This is purely the horses at work. We do not use chemical aids or soring. Horseshoes are the basically only aids. So this is NOT cruelty. If you knew about saddleseat, this is a five-gaited class. Three of the five gaits are natural and the two man made are basically faster walks. No cruelty added. UGH.
Let’s be honest, all breeds have a certain amount of harshness involved in their training. Having worked for saddlebred trainers I know what goes on behind the scenes, it’s not always pretty. That being said there is nothing like watching a good saddlebred, they are spectacular.
You're in denial. Even trying to say the shoes aren't cruel is redicolas, as redicolas as the riders look in that garb bouncing around on the horses kidneys and there is so much footage of chaining and harsh chemicals being used that you're either a fool or not too clever.
after reading it all i still dont fully get the tail setting procedure? the diff between this braiding and surgery. and would love to see the brace they use to hold the tail up. but as a western rider this looks so silly. i understand its not abuse but man. this is the first time i ever saw ASB in show and its very strange to look at... that said... beautiful horses and they do look like they are having a good time. i see no ears laid back or annoyed looks on thier faces....
+cwolffgurl, I own a registered Saddlebred and I assure you this is just the way they are -- they are bred to be high headed and interested in everything. Mine is no 5-gaited champion but he flags his (100% natural) tail, holds his head high, and struts his stuff down the trail, just him, me, and the deer. And he's barefoot. Sorry, but to me as a lifelong English rider, Western horses carrying their heads below withers level looks weird.
as opposed to Western Pleasure horses who look so miserable they want to die, with their noses in the dirt stumbling along in their pathetic "4 beat canters"...which look more than silly to the rest of the equestrian world, it's downright sad. The running W's, the draw reins, the forced abnormal gaits, the intense training. They even look miserable in pasture after the handling they receive.
Ugh, I used to board at a saddlebred barn and I was amazed at what they would do to and with those horses. The first time a filly was born I thought she was the cutest little thing, then they broke her tail and bandaged it up. Those long tails were ridiculous, they'd have them bundled up in socks and take them down for showing and were always so proud of the 10 hairs that hadn't broken yet. They would set off Roman candles, chase after them with bags, and have those stretchies on their legs. Their heads were cranked up so high. Not to mention each one was rude and inconsiderate in the arena, apparently it continued in the show ring.
I personally don't believe in how they remove a piece of muscle in saddlebred horse's tails but it really has no effect on their life at any point in time.
This is the opposite of optimal biomechanics in the ridden horse to maintain balance and soundness. Why do Americans have to always try to be bigger, brasher and more, more, more until it is just plain ridiculous?
There are so many animal breeds in North America who's official breed standards are taken to extremes, far beyond what is healthy for the animal. German Shepherds are bred to have a roached back with weak hips, brachiocephalic cats and dogs are bred to extremes where they can't breathe or eat properly with their nose between their eyes. Arab horses are bred for extreme shape at the expense of their power. Hackney carriage and TWHs are mutilated into a gait that is serves no function beyond looking pretty to some humans. Tail nicking, ear cropping, tail docking, declawing for aesthetic purpose are still common practice in North America but legislated against in other countries on the grounds of animal cruelty. All these practices within non-working animals are more extreme in North America than anywhere else. (Showing for prettyness is not 'working' from an evolutionary functional perspective.) I am not accusing all Americans as the majority are ethical breeders and there are movements in every sphere to place more emphasis on animal health and welfare. Nor am I suggesting these practices are exclusive to the US or Canada but they do appear to be more indulgent there.
Horses with different builds have different biomechanics and needs.. These horses couldn't possibly do what a quarter horse/thoroughbred does as a quarter horse/thoroughbred couldn't possible do what these horses do.
Okay, so I am a rider, I ride western primarily, and I am rather confused here. For this discipline is it normal for the rider to sit so far back on the saddle and back of the horse? It seems wrong to me, but I am curious if it is wrong for this style. If I rode like this on my horse I would go flying off of the back during games not to mention my gelding would murder me for being on his mouth so much...
Abby Wagemann they do that because the center of balance and movement on these horses tends to shift toward their hind ends so the riders sit on the backs of their saddles to help their balance
Actually saddleseat and Western riders sit about the same area. Some dressage styles do too. Hunt seat is forward seat riding which matches the conformation of hunters. Saddleseat is the same thing, just angles adjusted to match the conformation of the horse.
I agree with you Makaylee, the saddlebred horse's go through some real pain when the tail muscle is sliced then put in a brace so it heals that way, These people should suffer as much as these beautiful animals.
+Anna Glin that doesn't make it okay. Chopping dogs ears doesn't do any harm either, but the egoism behind it is wrong. The animal hasn't asked for it. They have no saying in it. And also, some methods do harm the horse. There's a risk of the wrong nerves getting cut, so the horse can't use its tail. (Yes, I've researched it). But I'm glad we agree on the natural way being the best way.
I could see that maybe he moves so well because of his breeding and his training, and obviously he's been trained very well, and I can see that the guy tries to sit as smoothly as he can and there are very few hard hits on his back, AND I assume that those saddles are built to maximize comfort for the horse, BUT what I don't like is that at about 14:08 he starts to stretch his back out while he's stopped. All I know is that that's what my horses have done when they're a little backsore, so what I'm wondering is: is he just resting his back because that's very taxing, or is he sore? is this something that happens consistently so we know the most probable cause? But really, I don't know much about this sort of thing, so all I can say for certain is WOW they really pick up their legs!
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
this is a beautiful group I used to ride a horse named Shorty that is WGC CH Skywatch's grandson, but he got too lazy and i moved onto another lazy horse named gabe, but now I am on a amish cart horse named Dewey
jordan clark yes, they ride toward the backs of their saddles because the center of balance in these big moving horses shifts back toward their hind ends. They sit far back like that to help the horses balance
I cant even admire any of the Tennessee walking horses now for worring and wondering what they have done to them how much abuse is any natural anymore? I cant stand to watch anymore. I bet every tail there has been cut not natural and the speed even if all is natural has got to be painful to keep up such a gait. These idiots have ruined it all now.
+sandiepperson It's to support their motion. Sitting in the middle of the horse so they can carry you while still being able to lift their front end while driving with their back end. These horses are not made to go flat up front. Sitting farther forward will throw off their gait and balance.
sandiepperson it supports their motion. The center of balance in Saddlebreds shifts toward their hind ends due to the animation in their front ends so they sit far back to help their balance
I guess whether it hurts the horse or not is almost a matter of religion. I would never put a saddle that long on my horse. When the saddle is so long, it will put pressure on the wrong points (especially with the rider sitting so far back, his weight is only on the last rib), which will cause the horse to tense up and only use his legs, not his back. The rider isn't leeaning back, just positioned very far back.
If you think saddle bred training is cruel to the animal maybe. you should do more research on training the Tennessee walking horses .they put the horse though way more cruelty by putting 3 inch pads on there horses .just saying maybe people should do more research before posting bad comments.
Incorrect...These horses are genetically predisposed to gait...Yes, the slow gait and rack are better developed with training, but all Saddlebreds have the natural ability...To put it simply, they're placed in the division that plays best to their strengths, and since there is only one 5-gaited division, most end up being trained as 3-gaited horses...
The horse is bred for it. I trained a couple of pleasure horses and they would pace or rack occasionally. Never breed 5 gaited horses if you want a 3 gaited horse.
infinity power You are right, most breeds can't, but some such as the saddlebred can. It is just like the Icelandic ponies and their tolt. There are quite a few gaited breeds.
Morgan_Horse I know but these Tennessee Walkers get acid on their hooves, so if they touch the ground it burns. That's not how you treat a horse with respect...
So, we had a proffessional saddle-fitter look at our horse the other day, and she told us that some of his tension might come from a saddle that is a bit too long, about a handswidth. Imagine what she would say about the way the riders sit on these horses...
Saddlebreds have cutback saddles. They were originally made for that breed. Different brands fit differently and you can have padding added or taken out. Arabian horses are sometimes difficult to fit. Talk to the saddle maker. There are more informed about saddles.
@@ratherbfishing455 The comment is four years old... The problem was fixed, the horse is better than ever at the age of 19. My point was that when the saddle reaches even just a bit too far, it can cause problems for the horse. The saddles seen in this video come back much further, causing even more issues, as it puts weight on the floating ribs. The saddle being designed for a breed to have a certain gait is not the same as the saddle being designed for the horse's benefit or anatomy.
@@frejabruus3014 I've been in horses for over 50 years. I had a western horse that seemed to be lame, I changed to a wider tree and the horse moved better after a couple of days. I have had a couple of english saddles adjusted for different horses. It was expensive, but I was training on a National level. It's now cheaper to buy different brands and use a barrel racing-like saddle pad.
+Anna Piper Thanks for your reply to my comment. I have never seen one being ridden. They have so much action, that to me it appeared that they would not stay sound for long. They are beautiful!
+sandiepperson because the horses have naturally high head carriage and high motion in their legs, it is the most effective and comfortable for both the horse and rider if the rider sits back a bit from the withers. It allows the horse more freedom and comfort in their gaits, and the rider's seat is also used to keep the horse balanced in its gaits
+Ally Mac absolute bull. It isn't good to sit on that part of the horse's back; that is the weakest part. We learnt that at bloody riding school when I was about 6, don't sit there even for a second!
+Morganne Pechenik yes because saddlebreds are unique amongst breeds of horses and they have special reverse backs that are stronger further back than near the front.
Rammixcuba Actually, yes they are unique in their build, as are Morgans, Hackneys, Freisians, and NSH's...For example, a Saddlebred's center of gravity is completely different than say a Thoroughbred's...Look into their skeletal structure, or Google videos of ASB foals trotting in a field...You'll see very quickly that these horses carry themselves this way naturally, and as such, the riding has to be adjusted to compensate for their comfort, as well as the comfort of their rider...
This shit is so freakin weird. The riders look like villains and the hoses look ridiculous and uncomfortable. I literally can’t imagine seeing this and thinking “oh, this looks normal”.
This in no way a natural tail position. Their nerves are cut in the tail and placed in the harness so the tail grows that way . They also put ginger or mustard powder on their anus to make it go higher because it stings. I've seen many devices used on them as well but not as severe as the Tennessee walkers. I've been in the show industry and seen many things. No equestrian events are natural to the horse. Most are human enhanced. Just mh opinion like everyone else's so please respect mine as I do yours 👍👍
Nope, your wrong, thats not true at all. Not going into an argument so got talk to professional trainers breeders and riders so they can supply you with the correct information.
This is just bizarre. The horses are beautiful but they look like they absolutely hate what they are being forced to do. Why do the men wear these cheap tuxedos that look like they come from a thrift show and why do the horses act so strange? Is that guy in the red coat and stripper boots at the beginning the Wizard of Oz? Or a failed Santa Claus? Guess you just have to grow up in Kentucky to understand I this culture suppose. Very bizarre.
+dgk stl Let us take this as an opportunity to teach you about the American saddlebred breed because clearly a lot of people lack knowledge and are unaware of what us saddleseat riders are truly doing and attempting to accomplish in the show ring. The horses in this video are absolutely loving what they are doing, their heads are up in an alert position, ears up, and they are getting to do one of the things they love most, show off. American Saddelbred love to show off and display their exuberance out for all to see. And man, do I wish those suits were cheap they cost about 1,000 to 3,000 dollars and can go higher depending on the quality. They are traditional, have been being used since the 1900's. The guy in the red coat and the 'stripper boots' as you called it is the ring master, he makes sure that everyone in the ring stays safe, if a horse throws a shoe the ring master calls everyone to a halt or walk, if someone falls off the ringmaster is the one again who calls the horses to a halt and goes and helps the person. He lives true to his name he is the ringmaster and a lot of responsibilities comes with that and again his outfit is a tradition. The horses act so 'strange' or 'crazy' as people like to put it because people are not used to seeing this much exuberance from a horse or simply holding their head high. But I think the main problem a lot of people have with seeing these horses go is that they feel as if we do not control our horses. Every second spent in that saddle we are in control but at the same time we are letting the horse have the capability of having a lot of exuberance and motion. If you have any more questions about saddlebreds or saddleseat I will be more than happy to answer them to the best of my ability.
+Kris Smiley Kris, very well put and after reading your post I believe I was much to quick to judge. Some of us have a quick "Internet Trigger" after seeing some show horses mistreated recently. Sometimes the venue looks the same at first glance. However, not always the case as I need to learn. But lesson learned on my part. I do apologize and will be more careful next time. The horses look great but the fat guy in the red Santa suit? I don't know but I suppose no one made him wear it. Hope we're all cool and thanks for accepting my apology if you would please.
It is fine. We all when we do not know something tend to think the worst of the situation or think it is some crazy or bizzare thing. When I went yo my first show and saw this stuff going on I thought it was the most peculiar thing and was asking my trainer questions every moment I spent there. ^.^
+dgk stl It would be helpful if people like you did not mock that which they have no conception. These horses love to put on a performance. The ASB is perhaps the biggest ham in the horse world. Fire under control! Most horses, like people & other animals love to romp & frolic & these horses are getting there chance to really show their stuff! As for those Saddle Suits, they're not cheap, but actually quite expensive. My evening show coat cost me $350.00 back in 1995. The saddles are probably costing in the range of $2000. & if it's a Shively about a 1/3 more. & why insult the ringmaster. He's traditional at the big shows. The only thing bizarre on this page is yourself.
Why are these passengers say so far back on the horses' loins? it looks very uncomfortable for the horse-and no tail is set on that way naturally. Such a shame.
Thisismyfirstname Thisismylastname The whole thing looks grotesque and very unbalanced. Much worse is the 'soring' which is plainly wicked. I'd advise anyone who wonders what it feels like to apply the same chemicals to their legs, and wrap them- and feel the agony. Years ago, I put liniment on my aching legs, and put cotton pyjamas on- it was so agonisingly burning and painful I had to get out of bed and wash off the liniment with soapy water- the memory of the pain remains. The chems used on the horses in 'soring' are far more irritant.
These are American Saddlebreds, not Tennessee Walkers. Tennessee Walkers are the ones who are sored. if you sored a Saddlebred, it would go lame and would not be able to walk, trot, or canter correctly for the rest of it's life. Nobody likes the "Big Lick". American Saddlebreds are a breed who preform high steps naturally. If you don't believe me, Google or search here on TH-cam, "American Saddlebred foal prancing". These horses are a breed who preform movement at birth that horses QH's and TB's cannot, and QH's and TB's can preform movement at birth that ASB's can not either. Training is used to enhance the natural 3 gaits ASB's have. I understand if the horses look frightened or in pain, most people who are unfamiliar with the breed think so at first glance. But riding and showing these horses for 7 years straight, I can assure you they are not.
Also, I should add that most Saddlebred owners are against the docking of tails, although to dock a ASB's tail, you must remove a minor muscle (a harmless and painless procedure that still lets the horse move it's tail naturally). It's much more humane than removing all of the horse's tail muscles (a trend that was popular in Western Pleasure when I started riding and still is today.) and letting the tail just lay there, limp and unmoving while the horse is confused as to why they can't swish away the darn flies anymore.
I've been to my first saddlebreed show and saw a similar position(it has a gangster/mob look I kinda like it!. It could be just the style maybe them having two styles to posting within the saddle. Certainly though Saddlebreeds are a gorgeous horse! I like it way better being there then watching it on some low quality screen and of the sounds of the horses labored breathing and whining! *.*
none of them but the one that won was injected with a large amount of poison by someone that broke into the trainers barn. he had to be put down due to the the muscles being eaten away and could no longer stand.
This is disgusting. It's unnatural and horses shouldn't have to lift their heads and legs up that high. it's cruel whether anyone thinks so or not. That is just sad.....😔😔😔
+Anna Glin very true yes I just wanted to understand the need for these shoes that's all, never made sense to me because saddlebreds have that gait naturally, so why enhance it that much? Why not do it like dressage trainers would and train hard to get the horse stronger and increase it's collection/extension? I'm just saying, I think they're a short cut.
+Anna Glin I've seen friesians, hackneys and Welsh cobs trot with animated movement similar to this completely barefoot and untrained. I don't get why this should be any different. Similar to a dressage horse. A big warmblood bred for dressage will trot round at liberty in a similar way. If they do it naturally it can be trained, so I don't get why these shoes are needed. I don't particularly see the need even for normal shoes in a lot of horses anyway. Most can go barefoot and do all sorts of things.
my sister had a wonderful Saddlebred, she rode him with a bosel, or a halter, or a piece of baling twine around his neck, and he ALWAYS carried his head high. Saddlebreds are great horses, you should try to find one to ride, and you will be amazed, so smooth and easy to stay on. Show Saddlebreds are trained to show the exaggerated gaits, I don't like the tail sets at all tho, its stupid, there is nothing prettier than a horses natural tail set, I wish this practice would stop. In the stall, these horses have to wear a "tail set" harness that keeps the tails up, so they cant ever just be a horse in a pasture again, cant swat at flies anymore...humans do all sorts of stupid artificial shit to horses. if you want to see the exact opposite of this kind of action, check out a Quarter horse show, Pleasure class, where these poor beasts have been trained to be SO SLOW, totally stupid human training again, its just painful to watch them "lope", they hardly move. But a NATURAL Saddlebred, or a NATURAL Tennessee Walker is the best riding horse out there, don't judge the breeds by show animals, totally different animal.
I want to recognize EatSleepRide1 for her? patience with questions, not just mine, but others' as well and for her thoughtful replies. She's the kind of person who aims to educate others rather than berate them for the things they are wondering about. If you're a guy, I apologize for thinking you're female. In either case, you're a breath of fresh air. :)
This is a disgusting and self-serving sport. Nothing looks comfortable from the bits to the ill fitted saddles, do you know how much pressure they're putting on the spine, it's awful! I have seen pictures and videos of these breeds doing dressage and jumping and they turn out with a much better and comfortable looking conformation. It's actually amazing what they have done with the breed, but this, this is just beyond wrong! I hope this sport becomes illegal because by the looks of it non of the people involved in this sport have a flipping clue how the horses body works and I honestly don't think they give a crap. That is what is wrong with them!
So, are their tails cut so they stand up like that so short? Are the muscles cut so they can't move their tails? None of this looks natural to me, just watching the movement of the horses. I've seen the same exaggerations in dog showing and it seems that humans cannot let an animal be natural, though they are living creatures.
***** That's good to know. I guess I just don't like animals shown artificially and would rather see them like that. To me, they're beautiful just like they are. I showed dogs for many years and saw a lot of artifice going on. I didn't have any say over that, but I could and did show my dogs without doing anything to their bodies, or coats. I finally stopped showing because it was too hard to hear people lying to themselves and believing their own lies, while I knew what they were doing to their dogs to win in the ring. I guess I just don't get it. If someone has to cheat to win, what has he won? It's all illusion and at what cost to the animal, who has no say in the matterl? Why wouldn't cutting nerves be just like cutting muscles?. I'm appalled at the horrible movement of the TWHs. It looks so ungainly and anything but attractive. They'd look much better if they were just natural. I like the natural movement of them. Man's vanity knows no bounds when he does things to animals that hurts them just to make them look artificial, when they're so beautiful when they're natural
Actually, I am the one who requested the USEF rule changes to do away with tail carriage alteration practices, shoes on babies etc. It is my understanding that the USEF Saddlebred Committee prefers the status quo and will NOT support positive changes in the industry.
freemansaddlebreds Bless you for that and it's too bad the people who are in the Saddlebred Committee will settle for things and are not for positive changes in the industry. That's sad. People hack away at themselves with plastic surgery, etc., but they have the say over themselves. The horses and dogs and whatever animals are used for showing, do not have any say in the matter. They're beautiful as they are. People want to make caricatures out of them. These animals are living creatures. Thanks for the input. Thanks to WatSleepRide1, as well.
Thanks. The other person commenting here perhaps has no medical background or has not seen a tail cut. It is technically called Subcutaneous Caudal Myotomy. I suggest people look up the procedure for themselves. Here is an excerpt from a Veterinary Manual: "Cutting is continued until the muscle is completely severed. The operator knows when the muscle is divided by the relaxation that takes place and by palpating the knife blade through the skin and fascia. The muscle should be severed completely to the skin ..." If the "breakover" is done, there are additional incisions and a dislocation.
freemansaddlebreds People do this with dogs for showing, as well and it's a poor testament to humans that, for a bit of fame, they will mutilate a creature that can have no say in the matter. It's an unseen mutilation, so I guess they think it's all right. How sad. Animals use their whole bodies to communicate with each other and us and the tail is a big factor in that communication. Who doesn't look at a dog's wagging tail? How can a horse whose tail is disconnected chase flies, or communicate with other horses and us? As for the dog show people--God forbid they should breed for the proper tailset. Same with horses and any other creature. At least if a dog's tail were shown as it was born with, people could make better breeding decisions, which is what showing is really what it's supposed to be all about. The human ego will do anything to get recognized, but if you have to cheat to win, what have you won?
again i would love to see these horses riden bitless or free where would the horse holds its head then. i was traught to ride with a bridle yes but hold the reins like they are single piece of cotton. i would now always try to achieve a true partnership with my horse not brought about by gear but by harmony with the horse.
jo bond the headset is infact thr breeds structure. they are none for high head carriage also here are some ways to tell if a horse has unnatural gaits in a gaited horse(meaning a forced or hurtful technique) white eyes shown often. excessive horse head nodding. or a horse avoiding any sort of aid. the most common is the head nodding. hope this helps!
Actually, we don't. We sit where any English rider would. The coattails on our suits make it appear so you'd think we're sitting so far back, but in actuality it's an illusion. :)
***** You are confusing what you have heard about Tennessee Walking show horses and American Saddlebreds. Training and artificail aid type abuse by Tennessee Walking trainers not used by American Saddlebred trainers. (Monstrous shoes, soring, riding way back on horse). Saddlebreds have natural action and high carriage. They are well cared for. Tennessee Walking trainers are the ones that are under scrutiny for horrible abuses. I know, I showed an American Saddlebred five gaited and worked as a show groom at a top stable in Kentucky and I am a soft heart. The horses were pampered.
Schön finde ich diese Pferde nicht mit Ihren viel zu dünnen Beinchen und den kurzen Stehhälsen. Ist deren Schweißrübe kaputt!? dann diese Schweif-Stellungen! Es sieht sehr unbequem aus, die zu reiten/sitzen! Schöne Gänge scheinen sie auch nicht zu haben!
Totally bizarre. These are wonderful horses but they are cranked into artificial positions and then ridden on their loins. Persons in the audience are not horse people or they would not cheer. Disgusting.
The way they carry their heads, they can't use their backs properly, which they need to do when they carry a rider. The head-carriage is fine when it's just the horse by itself, but when you add 150 lbs, the horse has to change the way it uses its body
i may be responding to this a bit late, however there is no cruelty going into these gaits whatsoever, the trot, walk, and canter are natural for a horse. If you are talking about the rack/slow gait it is not cruel, it is a man made gait however, they are trained simply by being taught to put more weight on their back legs and slide them rather then picking them up in a trotting manner.
Andrea Herman they are born with the tendency to rack, you see babies doing it in the field, but training evens it out. she is also confusing it with the TW problems which is why they have a DQP check them every time they go into a class.
watching that ,was so sad, those poor horses, they are in so much pain , you can tell so easily by, the back legs trying to take all you weight on the hind legs as the fount legs are screaming in pain!!!!!! what the fuck, this should be banned !!!
There is nothing cruel about this. Those who know nothing about horses are unaware that this breed has a naturally high head carriage and neck set. See, I have lost the ignorant with a few terms already. The horse carries his head high to begin with and also has a natural high gait. What is disgusting is the way the riders present themselves. They are sitting on the horses hips. I know this is to elevate the front end but the riders are pathetically bad. A mature riders are SO much better and can still get the job done. Pros are lousy riders to anyone who has any horse sense as well
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
May someone explain what is considered so great about all this stuff? Like... what is it useful for? Is it even useful in any way? To be honest, it just looks horribly pointless... I know that the saddlebreds necks are naturally set quite high, but when their heads come close to the verticality it looks like they might have trouble breathing, just like it is the case with rollkur. Are they even able to carry the riders weight effectively in that position? With other horses it's like: Head is high up - back can't carry the weight effectively. Head is down low - back can carry the weight a lot better. I guess it isn't that different with saddlebreds, so wouldn't it be more desireable to ride them with their heads relatively low, so that they can carry the weight better with their already hollow backs? And what about their exaggerated gait? It doesn't seem to be very comfortable, so what is the point in asking a horse to move like that? Does it improve the horses mobility or train the muscles and tendons in some way? Too many questions...
Clearly you have never had the pleasure of riding one of these magnificent animals...while I agree that looking at some of these videos you have to wonder ..wtf.. but remember a lot of these riders are professional riders and not necessarily used to riding that horse all the time but I can promise you that if you are atop your own mount with all the grace and power these horses have it is like a fine tuned machine all working together and is a beautiful sight to see..most of these riders are paid to make the horse preform the gaits they are being judged on and not how the rider looks..and as natural as it is for a Quarter Horse to hold it's head low it IS just as natural for a Saddlebred to hold it's head high and to have the "exaggerated" gait you mentioned
and ps...the worse thing in the world for a horse is to make it do something unnatural..like like racing a bunch of other horses for a specific length of time around a circle for no apparent reason or jumping over man made hurdles that it would never even think about going over but would instead go around...look at all the race horses that have had to be retired due to injuries as well as the hunter jumpers..at least this is the way this breed of horse was intended to be ridden
+susan childress Thanks for your answer! But to be honest... I still can't really tell what this is about. Is it just one of these 'oh look how pretty my horse can be' kind of things? It doesn't seem to be actually useful...like, horses trained for cutting are actually useful for working with Cattle, but these horses? No idea, really. I just can't see any beauty in this, I'm sorry. It just looks really tense and stressful to me, the horses movements just seem to be jerky, which I really don't like, I prefer longer and calmer strides :)
If you're genuinely curious about the breed and its uses: you are partially correct. Saddle Seat is a style of riding that was invented back in the Plantation era and breeders wanted a horse that was smooth and easy to ride (remember that the Saddlebred is a gaited horse, and the Slow Gait and the Rack are both incredibly smooth and fast gaits that are easy to sit to all day: that is the "jerky" movement you're referring to, it's likely a gait you've never seen before). This was way before the invention of fancy cars, so having a horse that was as comfortable to ride as he was beautiful, was important. Instead of driving around in your Mercedes, you rode your most elegant, beautiful, and high stepping horse out and about as a status symbol, and had a pleasure doing it. The Saddlebred is the ULTIMATE show horse (they are also known as "The Peacock of the Show Ring"), born with a willing disposition accompanied with grace and presence. He was bred as a show horse and will likely continue to be a show horse. They have an amazing work ethic and love to please, and a talented Saddlebred has a desire to show off. I think of them akin to the Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Mazeradi of the horse world - fancy, and they come with A LOT of power. The truth is, horses are a thing of the past. Outside of showing and cattle/ranch work, no breed of horse has any true "purpose" anymore. No horse has a reason to jump (Hunter/Jumper), and military work with horses on a large scale is extinct (Dressage). Saddle Seat has largely stayed true to form since its inception. The breed market is still dominated by mostly wealthy American, South African, and Canadian families and are more of a status symbol than anything else. It's all about riding the fanciest horse with your fanciest suit, but then again that's really what all disciplines have become now. I will say that outside of the show ring, they do make excellent trail horses! I find Saddlebreds to be very brave and they move out nicely, especially if you own one that is trained for all 5 gaits. Racking down a trail is smooth and exhilarating, but you better not be riding with slow Quarter Horses.... you'll leave them in the dust!
Makes me ill to see that cruel induced gait WHY those poor horses the riders look as still as corpes and ride on the poor horses mouth the crowd is manic and altogether a travesty no horse should.d be living like that,treated like that and have an unfeeling cruel crowd enjoying their agony SHAME SHAME on this condoning of absolute cruelty.
I wonder what the average age of retirement and average lifespan is of these horses. The movements and carriage, thought natural for the breed, is hard on their body. When a horse holds its head like that, it cannot use its back properly, especially not with a rider on its back, and such a long saddle.
These horses show well into their 20's, and barring any major health issues, the average lifespan is probably mid-late 20's, but many live into their 30's.
profdouthebubble Die sietzen auch viel zu weit hinten, da liegt der fast bei der Hälfte des Bauches :O Naja und normal ist das auch nicht wie die laufen ... :(
+Anna Piper not to mention the chains used on saddlebreds typically weigh no more than 6oz or so each and are absolutely never permitted in any show class.
Ich trainiere keine Saddlebreds komme vom Trabrennsport,aber glaube nicht das das was ich hier sehe gut ist.Würde diese Reiterei auf alle fälle verbieten,und zwar in ganz Amerika.in Deutschland würde diese Quälerei niemand sehen wollen.
This is disgusting. They are sitting on the horse's kidney area. And don't even get me started about the cruel practices used to make this unnatural gait. I've seen it done, so there is no denying it happens in the Saddlebred world.
+Anna Glin actually, no it's not. Look at one of those horses in a relaxed position and their head is not drawn up like that, the tails are not like that when they are born. Their either are injected with alcohol into the nerve effectively killing all sensation and often times broken and healed into that position. That really high step? That's not natural either.
+Jean Gilbert Have another look. Those extremely long shanked curbs are being hung onto hard. Those bits would not be allowed in the dressage ring. Too severe. There are rules against long shanked curbs, for good reason.
I hate this. The inane shrieking and hollering of the audience, are they on drugs or something?. The rider position so far back because of the head carriage that the rider is on the horse's loins and therefore cannot post to the trot or smoothly do a sitting trot it's a sort of mish-mash of both. The tail-sets. The severe long shank bits. The animals are well sweated up. One horse at 14.08 cannot even stand properly when the rosette is collected and sags horribly as if he's exhausted in carrying his rider and appears uncomfortable in the hindquarters as he shifts his weight, poor boy. The extravagant Barbie doll tail switches, ironic giving such a lush tail when they cannot use it because of the tail nicking/setting....I could go on but it is just so depressing. The riders really do look like hunched-up vultures. It does not look pleasing, it's ugly and contrived. Well to me anyway.
Look how the back legs are lower, in the long run this horse and the other ones in this show will end up in the Slattery pipe line going to Mexico to get butcher just becouse of shows like this. These horses or ANY horse should NOT be doing these postures. Look at a show call horse rescues, they rescue horses that got mess up by this sport. It should be band and the abuse these horses have to put up. Don't like it. Poor horse! Doesn't like it, it has no choice but to do it.
How can these people call themselves riders! Bouncing about on the horses loins and hanging on with their hands, hunched up, wagging legs etc etc! The horses have their heads hauled in by the riders shocking hands. It's just horrible!
***** I agree with you. These horses are bred for this natural gate. As long as you have perked ears and a loose tail, you have a happy horse! The Saddlebred is one of the most elegant breeds ever
![งมหอย จับปลา มือเปล่า หาอยู่หากินแบบวีถีอีสานกับแก๊งเซียนหรั่ง ม่วนคัก! [ขอนแก่น] @Sianstudio](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JEJZg6N-AbU/mqdefault.jpg)
I love seeing the comments about how this is done for the money. Have you ever seen a Saddlebred show prize list? The fact is that the ONE biggest class of the year is 100k, when that is a regular grand prix class prize. The average class prize at the biggest rated shows for Saddlebreds are around 1-5k to be split between the exhibitors. There is no "money" incentive, what drives Saddlebred and saddle seat people is the pure love of it! It is an amazing and misunderstood discipline. ++Rack On++
Work for a good trainer
Ego trip. The trainers and vets have to make a living. The owner makes money off of breedings.
It's all about money, wake up
@@Vivienlewisas a former rider, my whole barn was broke, every dollar went to these horses. lol. So no. I’m going to disagree with you.
Nice video footage of an exceptional class and memory. For those of you that commented below and don't know, these horses are a pure concentration of talent and athleticism showing off their best. Although it may not "pretty" to equitation standards, staying out of these horses way is sometimes the manner that allows them to show themselves off best. If this was not the case, you certainly wouldn't have a class turnout like what you are watching!
More importantly, notice the horse that won. This horse was one of the breeds greatest, and truly depicted the phenomenal "standard" all others aimed to be like. Wild Eyed & Wicked was a victim of a horrible crime where some of the breeds winning-est horses were injected with toxic venom to lame them beyond repair. This horse had to be euthanized and the case was never resolved completely. It was an awful act of bringing Hell onto Earth, where jealousy and human hatred harmed a talented animal that never held a grudge, never fought back, and never hated.
May we all learn from this. If you love and admire horses, educate yourselves on breeds, training methods, and politics, people. Our industry is suffering greatly, mostly due to misunderstanding and poor representation. Please celebrate the horse and stop the hating of difference so we can all come together and save what we have left.
A crime? Maybe too much of a racehorse cocktail.
Let’s celebrate the horse and ride properly not over its loins which is the weakest part of their backs. Come on America study horse anatomy.
I love how happy these horses are! They truly do love their job and no one can tell me otherwise because you’re blind if you don’t see it!
Yeah it's amazing what a well-placed jab of a spur will do, right?
Kathy Wilson saddleseat riders don’t wear spurs unless the rider is really just not smart these horses are very energetic and forward naturally and rarely need a tap of a riding whip. jumpers use spurs and if used correctly I don’t think they are abusive. There also isn’t spurs in this video (unless I didn’t see them
Omg are you blind the fear pain and stress is written all over these horses faces the sadness in their eyes
I've noticed that on this page and in the comment section, there is no mention of what happened to Wild Eyed and Wicked, the gorgeous horse who won that year's show. Not long after winning the championship, Wicked and four other horses at his stable were injected with some kind of venom in their legs to purposely lame them. Two of the horses survived and went on to show again, but Wicked and the other two had injuries so severe that they had to be put down. To my knowledge, nobody knows who did this to the horses, but it was a sickening act and a tragedy of unbelievable proportions!
Did this happen at a horse show? Arabian trainers used to have their vets numb the hooves, as the horses got sore from standing on the cement after a week. That's why I always asked to be outside in the permanent stalls.
@@ratherbfishing455 This happened at the trainer's barn. It's possible that a rival who knew how good these horses were in the show ring wanted to eliminate the competition, but we'll probably never know for sure!
@@JoMarieM Thanks. Maybe insurance money? Mad employee? Just evil?
@@ratherbfishing455 Since Wild-Eyed and Wicked was a two-time national five-gaited champion, I think it's more than likely that somebody wanted him and the other four horses out of the running. Somebody obviously knew which horses in that barn posed the most threat, and wanted them done away with. Since a winning show horse can earn big bucks, and sometimes breeding benefits, there are some people who will do whatever it takes to put somebody else's horse out of the running, even if it ends up harming the animals!
@@JoMarieM World Champion. I had an Arabian who had won National Champion, someone had left its stall door wide open a few days later. This was before stables had to be so careful. In the early 70s, the end of a Saddlebred's tail was burned off at a horse show.
Sounds like people need to learn the difference between Tennessee Walking Horses and Saddlebreds! The USEF sanctions American Saddlebred shows, they do NOT approve of the "Big Lick" soring cruelty. Try to make these horses hold their heads down like Quarter horses. It won't work. Some horses are bred to run fast, some to jump high, these horses are bred to step high and hold their heads that way naturally. Along with their conformation, you have to sit behind their shoulders, otherwise you would interfere with their shoulder movement.
I think what they have done to the quarter horse is gross. How can they see where they are going rolling peanuts.
@@49lucky these horses aren’t quarter horses you dumbass
@@chrishale1345 no need for that; she KNOWS these are not quarter horses...shes reacting to an above comment...
@@Lauren-vd4qe ohh ok, then im the stupid one :)
If you want to see the Saddlebreds shows just like the TWH just add more money to the shows, then the soring will appear like magic
May I just make the point that if you don't like watching this don't. I think it is beautiful, these horses were bred to do this! I ride saddlebreds and I know they LOVE to strut their stuff and an easy going horse anyone could ride goes nuts in the ring and loves it! She gets excited and goes around like she was bred to do this, which she was.
That's rude of you to say that. People know bad stuff goes on in the show world and the animals can't speak up about it, except to go lame, or die.
You need to educate people and if they say they've seen something done to the horses, how can you say it didn't happen? Some things are misunderstandings, but humans being humans, they will do their dirty work in the dark where people can't see them and then protest that kind of thing doesn't go on.
I didn't say anything didn't happen. I was just saying this is what a lot of these horses LOVE to do. I know some horses are treated badly but a lot of the best ones aren't.
mawmawvee these horses are not abused. Yes, some trainers may, but do these horses look uncomfortable? No. Please do your research about saddleseat before you judge like this.
Y....... the vicious bit, they'd love to move their heads freely
As a owner of a friesian x TB x american saddlebred all my dressage trainers always tell me the friesian part of jeri is the one that makes him want to hold his head in the sky.... they obviously haven't seen many saddlebreds!
Hannah Lucy the friesian and saddlebred in him make him want to hold his head like that
I swear to god, a person I don't even believe in. If one more person claims this is abuse, I'm going to lose it. If you're calling this cruelty, you need to get up from your electronics and take a step outside. This is no worse than jumping, dressage, barrels, WP, hunt seat. There are questionable things in each discipline. Just because you don't know much about this discipline, do NOT assume it is abusive. You guys seriously need to get your lives together and educate yourselves.
+Breanne Popplewell You took the words right out of my mouth!!
ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE are you going to lose it. I bet those will before you do.
Those horses are extremely stressed out. Which one enjoyed the show?
Well then you should pray that God treats you and your loved ones the way these horses are treated then.
That sounds fair, doesn't it if they are treated so well.
Jude Campbell the applause makes these horses glow. They were bred to perform. It makes them happy. They love their job and love for it. Why do you think these horses look stressed out?
Most saddlers have a naturally high head carriage. As well as a lofty gait - the weight of the shoes is monitored by regulation. Until you've ridden one of these beauties, you haven't really been able to fly - and that's what it feels like.
I ride saddle seat and it gives you this feeling like " Omg this is the best thing in the world!" it is like a runners high it just gives you a great feeling especially if your horse loves to do it. ours will run in the pasture like this.
I was say whup every few seconds. I used to train horses!
Nothing against Quarter and Paint Horses ...not for nothing there are nearly 4.000.000 registratet ones on the whole world! Sliding Stop and Roll backs, or if you can sit and knit a jumper between or just ride them without bridle and westernsaddle in a trail or reining ! Work them in the Castle....thats it!!! Walking so flat and easy ....best to ride!
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
Outstanding class -- many great horses! Wish there were a way to identify each horse and rider.
***** Thanks, Betsy. I think I was referring to a different show. I don't remember commenting on the 2011 stake. Or even seeing it.
Why do people have to be such idiots to believe this is cruelty? I mean truly stupid! It's beautiful how can you not see?? Saddlebreds are taken better care of then most humans, the money, time, and care put into this is crazy and that's why I love it. People just need to gain experience about saddlebreds and saddleseat in general!!! And if youre commenting negative marks about these horses you've obviously never been around them, ridden, or taken care of them!!! I can think of many negative things to say about every style of riding but I'm educated enough to know that not every horse is beaten or apart of whatever 'cruelty' people are talking about.
I love this horse😍😍
Saddlebreds are born with what you are all looking at. Their gate (how their moving their legs) and how they use their necks are natural. Their backs do not get sore from riding unless they have had some injury to the back area somehow (people riding them rarely, if ever, causes back injuries to these beautiful horse). The horses you see on this video are championship horses who were born naturally with their gate and body disposition. Trust me, as a a very strong animal lover and Saddlebred rider and competitor for 11 years these horses are not mistreated in any way. They are treated like kings and queens even if they do lose because so much training and care has gone in making them the great horses they are today. If you want to pick on something , pick on horse races. Jockeys and trainers push and whip their horse until they can go no faster. Now isn't that wrong to you? Many race horses have to be put down right on the race track because they broke an ankle or an artery exploded because the are pushed to hard. Also, racehorses retire at around 4 years old while saddlebreds in this division can compete well into their twenties because they are well taken care of and are naturally gated to do this type of job.
No...they are not. Look sometimes at the chains they use on their feet to get them to raise them so much. Do you know how they work? Do you? Do you know why they are so painful? Do you know why their tails look so disgustingly fake? Do you know about the mutilation they perform on their tails? Clearly...you don't know much of anything.
@@briarlee you're confusing Tennessee Tennessee walking horses with saddlebreds. These horses are not TWH's and do not display the "big lick"
Just what the TWH people said in the late forties(never mistreated, just like pets) Now look at them can't go to a walking horse show without two or three horses dismissed from the show.
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
Back when gaited horses, and the big stake, were really exciting.
loved it, classic & beautiful saddle bred. have seen others and not impressed with the gait. these guys look like the best in the country!
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
@@poppawhoppaoz2480 Are you going to keep repeating the same comment in all of the responses? That is SPAMMING!!
some of you people should check out saddlebred videos of stallions in hand and mares and foals in pasture and you will see that saddlebreds are just very upright and have extravagant motion .Its bred into them. They are amazing powerful horses. I have ridden them with no double bridles not saddleseat style and they still travel this way.
Holly Burke natural gait it may be, but with an adults weight on their backs there's nothing natural about that! Poor horses
I have and always will take up for these magnificent horses they need a voice and now they have one
+Martha Allen Except I think you confuse the Tennessee Walkers with the Saddlebred. I own a Saddlebred who has, lets face it, the most dedicated care team in the world, not to mention a tremendous will to live. She is far from abused. In fact she spends most of her time just hanging out and being a horse. But get her in the showring and she will perk up big time. Even in a not even close to stressful in hand class at her last show (she's now a spoiled rotten pet!) she stood there parked out with her head up, ears up, and looking around very animatedly. After collecting 2 ribbons that day she was rewarded with a chance to simply graze on some lush green grass until it was time to go home.
These are Saddlebreds, not Big Lick walkers...
This is not near cruelty. These horses have NATURAL motion. We barely use aids to help them lift their legs. This is purely the horses at work. We do not use chemical aids or soring. Horseshoes are the basically only aids. So this is NOT cruelty. If you knew about saddleseat, this is a five-gaited class. Three of the five gaits are natural and the two man made are basically faster walks. No cruelty added. UGH.
It depends on the trainer
Yeah right
Let’s be honest, all breeds have a certain amount of harshness involved in their training. Having worked for saddlebred trainers I know what goes on behind the scenes, it’s not always pretty. That being said there is nothing like watching a good saddlebred, they are spectacular.
All training of animals period has a “dark side” some prefer to keep it quiet so they don’t have to admit it….
You're in denial. Even trying to say the shoes aren't cruel is redicolas, as redicolas as the riders look in that garb bouncing around on the horses kidneys and there is so much footage of chaining and harsh chemicals being used that you're either a fool or not too clever.
Wild and wicked rack on! Beautiful job WESR 103.3 fm Virginia Mychristina
Very beautiful sadlebreds.
Gorgeous horses and lots of action.
Such a beautiful class
+Saddlebredgirl24 yep
after reading it all i still dont fully get the tail setting procedure? the diff between this braiding and surgery. and would love to see the brace they use to hold the tail up. but as a western rider this looks so silly. i understand its not abuse but man. this is the first time i ever saw ASB in show and its very strange to look at... that said... beautiful horses and they do look like they are having a good time. i see no ears laid back or annoyed looks on thier faces....
+cwolffgurl, I own a registered Saddlebred and I assure you this is just the way they are -- they are bred to be high headed and interested in everything. Mine is no 5-gaited champion but he flags his (100% natural) tail, holds his head high, and struts his stuff down the trail, just him, me, and the deer. And he's barefoot. Sorry, but to me as a lifelong English rider, Western horses carrying their heads below withers level looks weird.
ill bet it does LOL
as opposed to Western Pleasure horses who look so miserable they want to die, with their noses in the dirt stumbling along in their pathetic "4 beat canters"...which look more than silly to the rest of the equestrian world, it's downright sad. The running W's, the draw reins, the forced abnormal gaits, the intense training. They even look miserable in pasture after the handling they receive.
They wear a fake tail. Like hair extensions.
Ugh, I used to board at a saddlebred barn and I was amazed at what they would do to and with those horses. The first time a filly was born I thought she was the cutest little thing, then they broke her tail and bandaged it up. Those long tails were ridiculous, they'd have them bundled up in socks and take them down for showing and were always so proud of the 10 hairs that hadn't broken yet. They would set off Roman candles, chase after them with bags, and have those stretchies on their legs. Their heads were cranked up so high. Not to mention each one was rude and inconsiderate in the arena, apparently it continued in the show ring.
I'm assuming that you're being sarcastic because I assure you that is no lie. I can give you the name of the trainers.
I personally don't believe in how they remove a piece of muscle in saddlebred horse's tails but it really has no effect on their life at any point in time.
Yes it does. If they botch the job the horse can't swish his tail.
That's nice. Too bad that's not always the case.
They're in Minooka, IL. You can do the rest of the research.
This is the opposite of optimal biomechanics in the ridden horse to maintain balance and soundness. Why do Americans have to always try to be bigger, brasher and more, more, more until it is just plain ridiculous?
There are so many animal breeds in North America who's official breed standards are taken to extremes, far beyond what is healthy for the animal. German Shepherds are bred to have a roached back with weak hips, brachiocephalic cats and dogs are bred to extremes where they can't breathe or eat properly with their nose between their eyes. Arab horses are bred for extreme shape at the expense of their power. Hackney carriage and TWHs are mutilated into a gait that is serves no function beyond looking pretty to some humans. Tail nicking, ear cropping, tail docking, declawing for aesthetic purpose are still common practice in North America but legislated against in other countries on the grounds of animal cruelty.
All these practices within non-working animals are more extreme in North America than anywhere else. (Showing for prettyness is not 'working' from an evolutionary functional perspective.)
I am not accusing all Americans as the majority are ethical breeders and there are movements in every sphere to place more emphasis on animal health and welfare. Nor am I suggesting these practices are exclusive to the US or Canada but they do appear to be more indulgent there.
I totally agree with you, Marvin.
Horses with different builds have different biomechanics and needs.. These horses couldn't possibly do what a quarter horse/thoroughbred does as a quarter horse/thoroughbred couldn't possible do what these horses do.
They are in Europe and in South Africa.
The same reason why other countries use draw reins and pole their horses. Wire cavesons.
is this filmed in kentucky? The arena looks like freedom hall where i go to see some shows away from my own barn.
Yes, this is Freedom Hall.
I love this horse I was so lucky to meat him
Sorry he became meat! (But I eat horse, too, and like it raw.)
Okay, so I am a rider, I ride western primarily, and I am rather confused here. For this discipline is it normal for the rider to sit so far back on the saddle and back of the horse? It seems wrong to me, but I am curious if it is wrong for this style.
If I rode like this on my horse I would go flying off of the back during games not to mention my gelding would murder me for being on his mouth so much...
Abby Wagemann they do that because the center of balance and movement on these horses tends to shift toward their hind ends so the riders sit on the backs of their saddles to help their balance
Actually saddleseat and Western riders sit about the same area. Some dressage styles do too. Hunt seat is forward seat riding which matches the conformation of hunters. Saddleseat is the same thing, just angles adjusted to match the conformation of the horse.
I agree with you Makaylee, the saddlebred horse's go through some real pain when the tail muscle is sliced then put in a brace so it heals that way, These people should suffer as much as these beautiful animals.
+Anna Glin And that makes it okay??
+Anna Glin that doesn't make it okay. Chopping dogs ears doesn't do any harm either, but the egoism behind it is wrong. The animal hasn't asked for it. They have no saying in it. And also, some methods do harm the horse. There's a risk of the wrong nerves getting cut, so the horse can't use its tail. (Yes, I've researched it).
But I'm glad we agree on the natural way being the best way.
Courtney Mears a horse at my barn has a tail set, but it is only worn about 6-7 days before the show :)
Wait the Saddlebred people said that Saddlebred were not sored horses! what do you call tail notching(soring)
I could see that maybe he moves so well because of his breeding and his training, and obviously he's been trained very well, and I can see that the guy tries to sit as smoothly as he can and there are very few hard hits on his back, AND I assume that those saddles are built to maximize comfort for the horse, BUT what I don't like is that at about 14:08 he starts to stretch his back out while he's stopped. All I know is that that's what my horses have done when they're a little backsore, so what I'm wondering is: is he just resting his back because that's very taxing, or is he sore? is this something that happens consistently so we know the most probable cause? But really, I don't know much about this sort of thing, so all I can say for certain is WOW they really pick up their legs!
Mercury Schmidt they "park out" when stopped. It's an old custom to allow ladies to get on and off.
Mercury Schmidt that’s called parking out. They do that to show their confirmation. They aren’t sore or anything
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
this is a beautiful group I used to ride a horse named Shorty that is WGC CH Skywatch's grandson, but he got too lazy and i moved onto another lazy horse named gabe, but now I am on a amish cart horse named Dewey
Sounds like you're moving on up!
is that 1st guy even in the saddle?
jordan clark yes, they ride toward the backs of their saddles because the center of balance in these big moving horses shifts back toward their hind ends. They sit far back like that to help the horses balance
again i asking why use that type of bit? why hold the reins so tight. what are you doing to the horses mouth poll and back
The same reason trainer use draw reins and hock hobbles.
Just because they want to be seen as a bunch of dandies it's not even about the horse anymore.
I cant even admire any of the Tennessee walking horses now for worring and wondering what they have done to them how much abuse is any natural anymore? I cant stand to watch anymore. I bet every tail there has been cut not natural and the speed even if all is natural has got to be painful to keep up such a gait. These idiots have ruined it all now.
That was a long class!
The horses are beautiful but the riders look ridiculous sitting that far back on their backs.
+sandiepperson Ha ha yes they do I was thinking the same thing
+sandiepperson It's to support their motion. Sitting in the middle of the horse so they can carry you while still being able to lift their front end while driving with their back end. These horses are not made to go flat up front. Sitting farther forward will throw off their gait and balance.
sandiepperson it supports their motion. The center of balance in Saddlebreds shifts toward their hind ends due to the animation in their front ends so they sit far back to help their balance
I feel like sitting that far back would be uncomfortable for horse and rider 😂
it’s not
its actually very comfortable
Are the riders leaning too far back in the saddle or is it the type of saddle and does it hurt the horse? I am not judging I just am not clear.
The saddlebred saddle is just different. It doesn't hurt the horse at all,
I guess whether it hurts the horse or not is almost a matter of religion.
I would never put a saddle that long on my horse. When the saddle is so long, it will put pressure on the wrong points (especially with the rider sitting so far back, his weight is only on the last rib), which will cause the horse to tense up and only use his legs, not his back.
The rider isn't leeaning back, just positioned very far back.
This is the most anti-equestrian thing I have seen in a long time.
You already know my perspective on this matter .
Martha Allen I don’t, what is it?
If you think saddle bred training is cruel to the animal maybe. you should do more research on training the Tennessee walking horses .they put the horse though way more cruelty by putting 3 inch pads on there horses .just saying maybe people should do more research before posting bad comments.
Freedom Hall is the only place to use green sawdust that I have seen. I was there.
there’s a show in Kansas called the royal, they use green shavings as well i believe
Blue 49,,,,,, The slow gait and rack are MAN made gaites.I just love it when someone talks about something they know nothing about!
Incorrect...These horses are genetically predisposed to gait...Yes, the slow gait and rack are better developed with training, but all Saddlebreds have the natural ability...To put it simply, they're placed in the division that plays best to their strengths, and since there is only one 5-gaited division, most end up being trained as 3-gaited horses...
The horse is bred for it. I trained a couple of pleasure horses and they would pace or rack occasionally. Never breed 5 gaited horses if you want a 3 gaited horse.
I trained a Half-Arabian that would go into a slowgait. Very annoying.
This isn't equestrian....this is abuse!
It's my opinion, so why would you have to agree with me?
I'm just wondering what part of this you consider abuse?
Morgan_Horse this is not how horses walk in their natural way
infinity power You are right, most breeds can't, but some such as the saddlebred can. It is just like the Icelandic ponies and their tolt. There are quite a few gaited breeds.
Morgan_Horse I know but these Tennessee Walkers get acid on their hooves, so if they touch the ground it burns. That's not how you treat a horse with respect...
So, we had a proffessional saddle-fitter look at our horse the other day, and she told us that some of his tension might come from a saddle that is a bit too long, about a handswidth. Imagine what she would say about the way the riders sit on these horses...
Saddlebreds have cutback saddles. They were originally made for that breed. Different brands fit differently and you can have padding added or taken out. Arabian horses are sometimes difficult to fit. Talk to the saddle maker. There are more informed about saddles.
@@ratherbfishing455 The comment is four years old... The problem was fixed, the horse is better than ever at the age of 19. My point was that when the saddle reaches even just a bit too far, it can cause problems for the horse. The saddles seen in this video come back much further, causing even more issues, as it puts weight on the floating ribs. The saddle being designed for a breed to have a certain gait is not the same as the saddle being designed for the horse's benefit or anatomy.
@@frejabruus3014 I've been in horses for over 50 years. I had a western horse that seemed to be lame, I changed to a wider tree and the horse moved better after a couple of days. I have had a couple of english saddles adjusted for different horses. It was expensive, but I was training on a National level. It's now cheaper to buy different brands and use a barrel racing-like saddle pad.
Bet the horses don't last long with the people flopping around on their kidney's like that. Had to turn it off.
***** Thank you for your very gracious note. They are very beautiful horses and you are a good spokesman for the breed.
+Anna Piper Thanks for your reply to my comment. I have never seen one being ridden. They have so much action, that to me it appeared that they would not stay sound for long. They are beautiful!
Das ist voll schön
Carmen Neumann Man muss schon ganz schön bescheuert sein und von Pferden überhaupt keine Ahnung haben, um das schön zu finden...
If a horse isn't born with this motion it will never have this motion. Its natural not trained.
Why are the riders sitting on the horse’s loins? No wonder they are so hollow backed!
WHY are they sitting so far BACK on the horses back? It looks totally unnatural??
+sandiepperson because the horses have naturally high head carriage and high motion in their legs, it is the most effective and comfortable for both the horse and rider if the rider sits back a bit from the withers. It allows the horse more freedom and comfort in their gaits, and the rider's seat is also used to keep the horse balanced in its gaits
+Ally Mac absolute bull. It isn't good to sit on that part of the horse's back; that is the weakest part. We learnt that at bloody riding school when I was about 6, don't sit there even for a second!
+OneMoreMileAnHour Actually, it's perfectly fine and natural for saddlebreds.
+Morganne Pechenik yes because saddlebreds are unique amongst breeds of horses and they have special reverse backs that are stronger further back than near the front.
Rammixcuba Actually, yes they are unique in their build, as are Morgans, Hackneys, Freisians, and NSH's...For example, a Saddlebred's center of gravity is completely different than say a Thoroughbred's...Look into their skeletal structure, or Google videos of ASB foals trotting in a field...You'll see very quickly that these horses carry themselves this way naturally, and as such, the riding has to be adjusted to compensate for their comfort, as well as the comfort of their rider...
This shit is so freakin weird. The riders look like villains and the hoses look ridiculous and uncomfortable. I literally can’t imagine seeing this and thinking “oh, this looks normal”.
This in no way a natural tail position. Their nerves are cut in the tail and placed in the harness so the tail grows that way . They also put ginger or mustard powder on their anus to make it go higher because it stings. I've seen many devices used on them as well but not as severe as the Tennessee walkers. I've been in the show industry and seen many things. No equestrian events are natural to the horse. Most are human enhanced. Just mh opinion like everyone else's so please respect mine as I do yours 👍👍
All breeds have their dark side.
horses moving this way due to fear and abuse
*****
you cant see it?
Nope, your wrong, thats not true at all.
Not going into an argument so got talk to professional trainers breeders and riders so they can supply you with the correct information.
You talking about Tennessee Walkers, not the horses in the video.
Adam Quinn you’re thinking of Tennessee Walkers. Definitely not saddlebreds. Look it up
This is just bizarre. The horses are beautiful but they look like they absolutely hate what they are being forced to do. Why do the men wear these cheap tuxedos that look like they come from a thrift show and why do the horses act so strange? Is that guy in the red coat and stripper boots at the beginning the Wizard of Oz? Or a failed Santa Claus? Guess you just have to grow up in Kentucky to understand I this culture suppose. Very bizarre.
+dgk stl Let us take this as an opportunity to teach you about the American saddlebred breed because clearly a lot of people lack knowledge and are unaware of what us saddleseat riders are truly doing and attempting to accomplish in the show ring. The horses in this video are absolutely loving what they are doing, their heads are up in an alert position, ears up, and they are getting to do one of the things they love most, show off. American Saddelbred love to show off and display their exuberance out for all to see. And man, do I wish those suits were cheap they cost about 1,000 to 3,000 dollars and can go higher depending on the quality. They are traditional, have been being used since the 1900's. The guy in the red coat and the 'stripper boots' as you called it is the ring master, he makes sure that everyone in the ring stays safe, if a horse throws a shoe the ring master calls everyone to a halt or walk, if someone falls off the ringmaster is the one again who calls the horses to a halt and goes and helps the person. He lives true to his name he is the ringmaster and a lot of responsibilities comes with that and again his outfit is a tradition. The horses act so 'strange' or 'crazy' as people like to put it because people are not used to seeing this much exuberance from a horse or simply holding their head high. But I think the main problem a lot of people have with seeing these horses go is that they feel as if we do not control our horses. Every second spent in that saddle we are in control but at the same time we are letting the horse have the capability of having a lot of exuberance and motion. If you have any more questions about saddlebreds or saddleseat I will be more than happy to answer them to the best of my ability.
+Kris Smiley Kris, very well put and after reading your post I believe I was much to quick to judge. Some of us have a quick "Internet Trigger" after seeing some show horses mistreated recently. Sometimes the venue looks the same at first glance. However, not always the case as I need to learn. But lesson learned on my part. I do apologize and will be more careful next time. The horses look great but the fat guy in the red Santa suit? I don't know but I suppose no one made him wear it. Hope we're all cool and thanks for accepting my apology if you would please.
+dgk stl And to the Ringmaster, my apology to you as well. I should not have dis-respected you either.
It is fine. We all when we do not know something tend to think the worst of the situation or think it is some crazy or bizzare thing. When I went yo my first show and saw this stuff going on I thought it was the most peculiar thing and was asking my trainer questions every moment I spent there. ^.^
+dgk stl It would be helpful if people like you did not mock that which they have no conception. These horses love to put on a performance. The ASB is perhaps the biggest ham in the horse world. Fire under control! Most horses, like people & other animals love to romp & frolic & these horses are getting there chance to really show their stuff! As for those Saddle Suits, they're not cheap, but actually quite expensive. My evening show coat cost me $350.00 back in 1995. The saddles are probably costing in the range of $2000. & if it's a Shively about a 1/3 more. & why insult the ringmaster. He's traditional at the big shows. The only thing bizarre on this page is yourself.
What's in their front feet and why are they soaked in sweat if its their normal gait, just askingg
A three gaited horse and a five gaited horse are the same breed. A fine harness horse will make a good 3gaited horse most of time.
Why are these passengers say so far back on the horses' loins? it looks very uncomfortable for the horse-and no tail is set on that way naturally. Such a shame.
They're not sitting on the lions, it wasn't developed for hunting so the saddle dies not need to be on the horses neck lol.
+Thisismyfirstname Thisismylastname does, sorry
Thisismyfirstname Thisismylastname
The whole thing looks grotesque and very unbalanced. Much worse is the 'soring' which is plainly wicked.
I'd advise anyone who wonders what it feels like to apply the same chemicals to their legs, and wrap them- and feel the agony.
Years ago, I put liniment on my aching legs, and put cotton pyjamas on- it was so agonisingly burning and painful I had to get out of bed and wash off the liniment with soapy water- the memory of the pain remains.
The chems used on the horses in 'soring' are far more irritant.
These are American Saddlebreds, not Tennessee Walkers. Tennessee Walkers are the ones who are sored. if you sored a Saddlebred, it would go lame and would not be able to walk, trot, or canter correctly for the rest of it's life. Nobody likes the "Big Lick". American Saddlebreds are a breed who preform high steps naturally. If you don't believe me, Google or search here on TH-cam, "American Saddlebred foal prancing". These horses are a breed who preform movement at birth that horses QH's and TB's cannot, and QH's and TB's can preform movement at birth that ASB's can not either. Training is used to enhance the natural 3 gaits ASB's have. I understand if the horses look frightened or in pain, most people who are unfamiliar with the breed think so at first glance. But riding and showing these horses for 7 years straight, I can assure you they are not.
Also, I should add that most Saddlebred owners are against the docking of tails, although to dock a ASB's tail, you must remove a minor muscle (a harmless and painless procedure that still lets the horse move it's tail naturally). It's much more humane than removing all of the horse's tail muscles (a trend that was popular in Western Pleasure when I started riding and still is today.) and letting the tail just lay there, limp and unmoving while the horse is confused as to why they can't swish away the darn flies anymore.
gosh that first guy needs to lean back
I've been to my first saddlebreed show and saw a similar position(it has a gangster/mob look I kinda like it!. It could be just the style maybe them having two styles to posting within the saddle.
Certainly though Saddlebreeds are a gorgeous horse! I like it way better being there then watching it on some low quality screen and of the sounds of the horses labored breathing and whining! *.*
Look how those horses are sweating jow many die of stroke or heart attack during this?
none of them but the one that won was injected with a large amount of poison by someone that broke into the trainers barn. he had to be put down due to the the muscles being eaten away and could no longer stand.
This is disgusting. It's unnatural and horses shouldn't have to lift their heads and legs up that high. it's cruel whether anyone thinks so or not. That is just sad.....😔😔😔
Okay. Thanks for telling me!
+Anna Glin apart from the heavy shoes they nail onto their feet...
+Anna Glin it's still not natural though.
+Anna Glin very true yes I just wanted to understand the need for these shoes that's all, never made sense to me because saddlebreds have that gait naturally, so why enhance it that much? Why not do it like dressage trainers would and train hard to get the horse stronger and increase it's collection/extension? I'm just saying, I think they're a short cut.
+Anna Glin I've seen friesians, hackneys and Welsh cobs trot with animated movement similar to this completely barefoot and untrained. I don't get why this should be any different. Similar to a dressage horse. A big warmblood bred for dressage will trot round at liberty in a similar way. If they do it naturally it can be trained, so I don't get why these shoes are needed. I don't particularly see the need even for normal shoes in a lot of horses anyway. Most can go barefoot and do all sorts of things.
Das sind ja alle Tierquäler seht euch nur den Schweif an und die Hufe.Ich Sage euch arme arme Pferde TIERQUÄLER
The moronic moaners that show up in comments that can’t tell a hot blood vs cold blood horse are amusing
Красивое зрелище,что это за соревнование и порода лошадей
my sister had a wonderful Saddlebred, she rode him with a bosel, or a halter, or a piece of baling twine around his neck, and he ALWAYS carried his head high. Saddlebreds are great horses, you should try to find one to ride, and you will be amazed, so smooth and easy to stay on. Show Saddlebreds are trained to show the exaggerated gaits, I don't like the tail sets at all tho, its stupid, there is nothing prettier than a horses natural tail set, I wish this practice would stop. In the stall, these horses have to wear a "tail set" harness that keeps the tails up, so they cant ever just be a horse in a pasture again, cant swat at flies anymore...humans do all sorts of stupid artificial shit to horses. if you want to see the exact opposite of this kind of action, check out a Quarter horse show, Pleasure class, where these poor beasts have been trained to be SO SLOW, totally stupid human training again, its just painful to watch them "lope", they hardly move. But a NATURAL Saddlebred, or a NATURAL Tennessee Walker is the best riding horse out there, don't judge the breeds by show animals, totally different animal.
I want to recognize EatSleepRide1 for her? patience with questions, not just mine, but others' as well and for her thoughtful replies. She's the kind of person who aims to educate others rather than berate them for the things they are wondering about. If you're a guy, I apologize for thinking you're female. In either case, you're a breath of fresh air. :)
***** You're welcome. I like to tell people when I appreciate them. You "sounded" female, but I realized it was pure assumption on my part.
This is a disgusting and self-serving sport. Nothing looks comfortable from the bits to the ill fitted saddles, do you know how much pressure they're putting on the spine, it's awful! I have seen pictures and videos of these breeds doing dressage and jumping and they turn out with a much better and comfortable looking conformation. It's actually amazing what they have done with the breed, but this, this is just beyond wrong! I hope this sport becomes illegal because by the looks of it non of the people involved in this sport have a flipping clue how the horses body works and I honestly don't think they give a crap. That is what is wrong with them!
Why do they sit so far back?
Kaylee B the need to, for balance
So, are their tails cut so they stand up like that so short? Are the muscles cut so they can't move their tails?
None of this looks natural to me, just watching the movement of the horses.
I've seen the same exaggerations in dog showing and it seems that humans cannot let an animal be natural, though they are living creatures.
***** That's good to know. I guess I just don't like animals shown artificially and would rather see them like that. To me, they're beautiful just like they are. I showed dogs for many years and saw a lot of artifice going on. I didn't have any say over that, but I could and did show my dogs without doing anything to their bodies, or coats. I finally stopped showing because it was too hard to hear people lying to themselves and believing their own lies, while I knew what they were doing to their dogs to win in the ring. I guess I just don't get it. If someone has to cheat to win, what has he won? It's all illusion and at what cost to the animal, who has no say in the matterl?
Why wouldn't cutting nerves be just like cutting muscles?.
I'm appalled at the horrible movement of the TWHs. It looks so ungainly and anything but attractive. They'd look much better if they were just natural. I like the natural movement of them. Man's vanity knows no bounds when he does things to animals that hurts them just to make them look artificial, when they're so beautiful when they're natural
Actually, I am the one who requested the USEF rule changes to do away with tail carriage alteration practices, shoes on babies etc. It is my understanding that the USEF Saddlebred Committee prefers the status quo and will NOT support positive changes in the industry.
freemansaddlebreds Bless you for that and it's too bad the people who are in the Saddlebred Committee will settle for things and are not for positive changes in the industry. That's sad.
People hack away at themselves with plastic surgery, etc., but they have the say over themselves. The horses and dogs and whatever animals are used for showing, do not have any say in the matter. They're beautiful as they are. People want to make caricatures out of them. These animals are living creatures. Thanks for the input. Thanks to WatSleepRide1, as well.
Thanks. The other person commenting here perhaps has no medical background or has not seen a tail cut. It is technically called Subcutaneous Caudal Myotomy. I suggest people look up the procedure for themselves. Here is an excerpt from a Veterinary Manual: "Cutting is continued until the muscle is completely severed. The operator knows when the muscle is divided by the relaxation that takes place and by palpating the knife blade through the skin and fascia. The muscle should be severed completely to the skin ..." If the "breakover" is done, there are additional incisions and a dislocation.
freemansaddlebreds People do this with dogs for showing, as well and it's a poor testament to humans that, for a bit of fame, they will mutilate a creature that can have no say in the matter. It's an unseen mutilation, so I guess they think it's all right. How sad. Animals use their whole bodies to communicate with each other and us and the tail is a big factor in that communication. Who doesn't look at a dog's wagging tail? How can a horse whose tail is disconnected chase flies, or communicate with other horses and us?
As for the dog show people--God forbid they should breed for the proper tailset. Same with horses and any other creature. At least if a dog's tail were shown as it was born with, people could make better breeding decisions, which is what showing is really what it's supposed to be all about. The human ego will do anything to get recognized, but if you have to cheat to win, what have you won?
again i would love to see these horses riden bitless or free where would the horse holds its head then. i was traught to ride with a bridle yes but hold the reins like they are single piece of cotton. i would now always try to achieve a true partnership with my horse not brought about by gear but by harmony with the horse.
jo bond the headset is infact thr breeds structure. they are none for high head carriage also here are some ways to tell if a horse has unnatural gaits in a gaited horse(meaning a forced or hurtful technique) white eyes shown often. excessive horse head nodding. or a horse avoiding any sort of aid.
the most common is the head nodding.
hope this helps!
Anna Glin Saddlebreds are natural gaited horses... 😒
Anna Glin just the show horses are trained to be more exaggerated
***** actually they can be!
***** okay I agree with you on the rack not being natural.. I thought you were talking about their natural trot. Sorry
The crowd is like a circus crowd well that's right thought isn't it.
Oh my soul, what utterly soulless riding .... this looks terrible - and they DO sit on the horses loins!
Actually, we don't. We sit where any English rider would. The coattails on our suits make it appear so you'd think we're sitting so far back, but in actuality it's an illusion. :)
Rachel Says Hi LOL.
***** You are confusing what you have heard about Tennessee Walking show horses and American Saddlebreds. Training and artificail aid type abuse by Tennessee Walking trainers not used by American Saddlebred trainers. (Monstrous shoes, soring, riding way back on horse). Saddlebreds have natural action and high carriage. They are well cared for. Tennessee Walking trainers are the ones that are under scrutiny for horrible abuses. I know, I showed an American Saddlebred five gaited and worked as a show groom at a top stable in Kentucky and I am a soft heart. The horses were pampered.
Everyone here is correct.. I'm so glad the discipline has such great spokespeople.
Schön finde ich diese Pferde nicht mit Ihren viel zu dünnen Beinchen und den kurzen Stehhälsen. Ist deren Schweißrübe kaputt!? dann diese Schweif-Stellungen! Es sieht sehr unbequem aus, die zu reiten/sitzen! Schöne Gänge scheinen sie auch nicht zu haben!
Totally bizarre. These are wonderful horses but they are cranked into artificial positions and then ridden on their loins. Persons in the audience are not horse people or they would not cheer. Disgusting.
Anna, still not healthy, though
The way they carry their heads, they can't use their backs properly, which they need to do when they carry a rider. The head-carriage is fine when it's just the horse by itself, but when you add 150 lbs, the horse has to change the way it uses its body
This is all natural motion. The Tennessee walking horses are the breed that use massive shoes and use chemical compounds
I thought the cruelty to get these gaits had been outlawed?
i may be responding to this a bit late, however there is no cruelty going into these gaits whatsoever, the trot, walk, and canter are natural for a horse. If you are talking about the rack/slow gait it is not cruel, it is a man made gait however, they are trained simply by being taught to put more weight on their back legs and slide them rather then picking them up in a trotting manner.
Andrea Herman they are born with the tendency to rack, you see babies doing it in the field, but training evens it out. she is also confusing it with the TW problems which is why they have a DQP check them every time they go into a class.
Nope! That is some Tennessee walkers. Saddlebreds are born doing this. It is their conformation.
watching that ,was so sad, those poor horses, they are in so much pain , you can tell so easily by, the back legs trying to take all you weight on the hind legs as the fount legs are screaming in pain!!!!!! what the fuck, this should be banned !!!
There is nothing cruel about this. Those who know nothing about horses are unaware that this breed has a naturally high head carriage and neck set. See, I have lost the ignorant with a few terms already. The horse carries his head high to begin with and also has a natural high gait. What is disgusting is the way the riders present themselves. They are sitting on the horses hips. I know this is to elevate the front end but the riders are pathetically bad. A mature riders are SO much better and can still get the job done. Pros are lousy riders to anyone who has any horse sense as well
WTH … how do all these people get away with inhumanely “slicing & bracing” their horses tails so to achieve that totally unnatural upright tail posture … criminal, just like Big Lick, horse racing & the rest … urgh‼️
May someone explain what is considered so great about all this stuff? Like... what is it useful for? Is it even useful in any way?
To be honest, it just looks horribly pointless...
I know that the saddlebreds necks are naturally set quite high, but when their heads come close to the verticality it looks like they might have trouble breathing, just like it is the case with rollkur.
Are they even able to carry the riders weight effectively in that position? With other horses it's like: Head is high up - back can't carry the weight effectively. Head is down low - back can carry the weight a lot better. I guess it isn't that different with saddlebreds, so wouldn't it be more desireable to ride them with their heads relatively low, so that they can carry the weight better with their already hollow backs?
And what about their exaggerated gait? It doesn't seem to be very comfortable, so what is the point in asking a horse to move like that? Does it improve the horses mobility or train the muscles and tendons in some way?
Too many questions...
Clearly you have never had the pleasure of riding one of these magnificent animals...while I agree that looking at some of these videos you have to wonder ..wtf.. but remember a lot of these riders are professional riders and not necessarily used to riding that horse all the time but I can promise you that if you are atop your own mount with all the grace and power these horses have it is like a fine tuned machine all working together and is a beautiful sight to see..most of these riders are paid to make the horse preform the gaits they are being judged on and not how the rider looks..and as natural as it is for a Quarter Horse to hold it's head low it IS just as natural for a Saddlebred to hold it's head high and to have the "exaggerated" gait you mentioned
and ps...the worse thing in the world for a horse is to make it do something unnatural..like like racing a bunch of other horses for a specific length of time around a circle for no apparent reason or jumping over man made hurdles that it would never even think about going over but would instead go around...look at all the race horses that have had to be retired due to injuries as well as the hunter jumpers..at least this is the way this breed of horse was intended to be ridden
+susan childress
Thanks for your answer!
But to be honest... I still can't really tell what this is about.
Is it just one of these 'oh look how pretty my horse can be' kind of things? It doesn't seem to be actually useful...like, horses trained for cutting are actually useful for working with Cattle, but these horses? No idea, really.
I just can't see any beauty in this, I'm sorry. It just looks really tense and stressful to me, the horses movements just seem to be jerky, which I really don't like, I prefer longer and calmer strides :)
If you're genuinely curious about the breed and its uses: you are partially correct. Saddle Seat is a style of riding that was invented back in the Plantation era and breeders wanted a horse that was smooth and easy to ride (remember that the Saddlebred is a gaited horse, and the Slow Gait and the Rack are both incredibly smooth and fast gaits that are easy to sit to all day: that is the "jerky" movement you're referring to, it's likely a gait you've never seen before). This was way before the invention of fancy cars, so having a horse that was as comfortable to ride as he was beautiful, was important. Instead of driving around in your Mercedes, you rode your most elegant, beautiful, and high stepping horse out and about as a status symbol, and had a pleasure doing it.
The Saddlebred is the ULTIMATE show horse (they are also known as "The Peacock of the Show Ring"), born with a willing disposition accompanied with grace and presence. He was bred as a show horse and will likely continue to be a show horse. They have an amazing work ethic and love to please, and a talented Saddlebred has a desire to show off. I think of them akin to the Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Mazeradi of the horse world - fancy, and they come with A LOT of power.
The truth is, horses are a thing of the past. Outside of showing and cattle/ranch work, no breed of horse has any true "purpose" anymore. No horse has a reason to jump (Hunter/Jumper), and military work with horses on a large scale is extinct (Dressage).
Saddle Seat has largely stayed true to form since its inception. The breed market is still dominated by mostly wealthy American, South African, and Canadian families and are more of a status symbol than anything else. It's all about riding the fanciest horse with your fanciest suit, but then again that's really what all disciplines have become now.
I will say that outside of the show ring, they do make excellent trail horses! I find Saddlebreds to be very brave and they move out nicely, especially if you own one that is trained for all 5 gaits. Racking down a trail is smooth and exhilarating, but you better not be riding with slow Quarter Horses.... you'll leave them in the dust!
There is no point DieGinny. That's why they call it a "dog and pony show".
Makes me ill to see that cruel induced gait WHY those poor horses the riders look as still as corpes and ride on the poor horses mouth the crowd is manic and altogether a travesty no horse should.d be living like that,treated like that and have an unfeeling cruel crowd enjoying their agony SHAME SHAME on this condoning of absolute cruelty.
Look free Action - If you check out EU - Ridding the weight breek all, not here
And there main driving horses, also keep the horse fit -
And check out Andalusien from Spain, they have the action but needs new blood from Here
I wonder what the average age of retirement and average lifespan is of these horses. The movements and carriage, thought natural for the breed, is hard on their body. When a horse holds its head like that, it cannot use its back properly, especially not with a rider on its back, and such a long saddle.
These horses show well into their 20's, and barring any major health issues, the average lifespan is probably mid-late 20's, but many live into their 30's.
Up until their 20s. They are taken very well cared for with the exception of the artificle training and occasional vet work.
Disgusting...that they still mutilated and abuse these animals.
die reiter kommen doch beim leichttraben nur hoch weil sie sich an den zügeln hoch ziehen... schön ist anders
profdouthebubble Die sietzen auch viel zu weit hinten, da liegt der fast bei der Hälfte des Bauches :O
Naja und normal ist das auch nicht wie die laufen ... :(
S. Neubauer sitzen nicht sietzen
soring should be iligle
+Nethuli De Zoysa Soring IS illegal. These horses aren't sored.
+Anna Piper not to mention the chains used on saddlebreds typically weigh no more than 6oz or so each and are absolutely never permitted in any show class.
Il fanatismo e' tanto! Il rispetto del cavallo zero
Oh my word these people cannot ride. How come they sit so far back over the loins which is the weakest part of a horses back.
what a shame to lose that great horse the way it happened.
Die Menschen machen diese Pferde total kaputt könnte weinen sage nur Tierquäler
Ich trainiere keine Saddlebreds komme vom Trabrennsport,aber glaube nicht das das was ich hier sehe gut ist.Würde diese Reiterei auf alle fälle verbieten,und zwar in ganz Amerika.in Deutschland würde diese Quälerei niemand sehen wollen.
This is disgusting. They are sitting on the horse's kidney area. And don't even get me started about the cruel practices used to make this unnatural gait. I've seen it done, so there is no denying it happens in the Saddlebred world.
Amy Dunlap get get facts right.
it's cruel holding tight into the reins forcing head up. now if they let the reins go what would happen. would be interesting to see
+Anna Glin actually, no it's not. Look at one of those horses in a relaxed position and their head is not drawn up like that, the tails are not like that when they are born. Their either are injected with alcohol into the nerve effectively killing all sensation and often times broken and healed into that position. That really high step? That's not natural either.
Ok so its an unnatural tail set and the next question why that bit do you understand what it does
+jo bond i couldn't agree more
Its not. Those heads are set and they are usually riding on the snaffle. thats a double bridle they are using.
+Jean Gilbert Have another look. Those extremely long shanked curbs are being hung onto hard. Those bits would not be allowed in the dressage ring. Too severe. There are rules against long shanked curbs, for good reason.
You can tell which horses have been messed with, abused, they cant stand on their. Front legs for the judges.
I hate this. The inane shrieking and hollering of the audience, are they on drugs or something?. The rider position so far back because of the head carriage that the rider is on the horse's loins and therefore cannot post to the trot or smoothly do a sitting trot it's a sort of mish-mash of both. The tail-sets. The severe long shank bits. The animals are well sweated up. One horse at 14.08 cannot even stand properly when the rosette is collected and sags horribly as if he's exhausted in carrying his rider and appears uncomfortable in the hindquarters as he shifts his weight, poor boy. The extravagant Barbie doll tail switches, ironic giving such a lush tail when they cannot use it because of the tail nicking/setting....I could go on but it is just so depressing. The riders really do look like hunched-up vultures. It does not look pleasing, it's ugly and contrived. Well to me anyway.
Look how the back legs are lower, in the long run this horse and the other ones in this show will end up in the Slattery pipe line going to Mexico to get butcher just becouse of shows like this. These horses or ANY horse should NOT be doing these postures. Look at a show call horse rescues, they rescue horses that got mess up by this sport. It should be band and the abuse these horses have to put up. Don't like it. Poor horse! Doesn't like it, it has no choice but to do it.
This is pure torture for the horses it's madness
ABARTIG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Und die Leute aplaudieren noch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shame America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw him at the Pepsi Coliseum in Indianapolis years ago. What a horse ! It’s a shame people have to stoop to such diabolical tactics.
How can these people call themselves riders! Bouncing about on the horses loins and hanging on with their hands, hunched up, wagging legs etc etc! The horses have their heads hauled in by the riders shocking hands. It's just horrible!
Actually, most of these horses like showing and doing this, Some do it on their own.
***** I agree with you. These horses are bred for this natural gate. As long as you have perked ears and a loose tail, you have a happy horse! The Saddlebred is one of the most elegant breeds ever
Kat is right..
abuse.
this is absolute horse abuse
+Amanda Teears Elaborate. What makes you think this?
@ Syn re Amandateears : Ignorance.