Several sources were used for this episode, including our own scripts from the past year, but John Waller’s “The Unseen War in Europe” was a pretty big one. Mainly for his organization of the various elements of Barbarossa intelligence. Be sure to check out our rules of conduct before you comment! community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
Everyone's doing the "fake news" routine and I'm loving the end with Astrid. Indy: "Shame you're married!" Sparty: "...NO IT ISN'T!" Indy: "Well, 50/50."
@@MrNicoJac No worries. Indy's gf is on the crew. She was at the breakfast. This fills in the familial info, for some of us. I was guessing she and Spart were the couple, but hadn't heard or read any conformation.
British: "Germans are going to attack you." Americans: "Germans are going to attack you." Soviets: "Germans are going to attack you." Germans: "We're going to attack you." Stalin: "Keep absolutely still; German vision is based on movement."
Hitler's plan was straight up aggression and Stalin misjudged that. That costs the frontline troops arrayed at the border. The USSR is so big that plan B is always there, as in Napoleon's day. What does he do? Would something be misinterpreted. Moving troops back to deeper defensive lines might appear weak.Bad for a dictator and invites attack, when you want to front up to the Nazis. I think Stalin's plan is to take the pain and move to Plan B if the unlikely invasion happened.
@Ordinary Sessel yeah,one of the main reasons of the German defeat was that they were fighting a two front war,which started due to both a hatred for Slavs and communism,and to get that much needed🛢,to keep on fighting.
@@samarkand1585 Battle of Atlantic required a lot of ships and planes. Convoys to Malta were costly for british navy and troops in North Africa required ammunitions, personal and commercial shiping. If not Italy, maybe allies would be able to land in France the whole year earlier.
Considering when he wrote that (end of July, 1940), there is nothing to reconsider. The Italians were about to begin the conquest of British Somaliland, had already begun using airpower against the British in East Africa, and would launch their invasion of Egypt in September. The Italian navy had just fought the Royal Navy to a standstill at the Battle of Calabria, allowing their reinforcement convoy to reach Benghazi unscathed despite the presence of three British battleships against only two Italian ones. Now, if Halder had been writing in October after watching the Italian army camp out at Sidi Barrani (100 km inside Egypt) for weeks, or the end of October after the Italians added Greece to their list of problems, or mid-November after the raid on Taranto crippled the Italian fleet, then he'd have come to a different conclusion. At the end of July, though, it's hard to say he was entirely wrong.
Everyone: great leader, your mustache is on fire!!! Stalin: don't be ridiculous, these blatant lies are too obvious to be believed. Also, it sure is hot in here!
The logic in Stalin's behavior here - 1. Stalin thought his country needed at least another year to face German's might. (he did not expect the collapse of France to be that soon). 2. Stalin thought Germany would not risk to start a war against the Soviet Union before making peace with GB. 3. Stalin was sure GB is desperate to drag him into the war against Germany. 4. Stalin received dates of invasion from his intelligence starting from March and all these predictions failed except the last one - on June 22. So for him a warning about June 22 invasion sounded like another disinformation. 5. Stalin's intelligence reported - there is no signs of German's Army mass preparing winter clothes. And u kinda need it if u are planing to invade Russia. Stalin's main motivation was - he desperately needed another year and his mind rejected anything that was contradicting his plans.
@@gutty5475 Yes, I did and the only thing that makes it clear to me is that the guy had all the warnings he wanted and didn't pay attention to them, just because "mah country is not prepared". A good and capable leader adapts to the constant changes both inside and outside the country and according to the comment, Stalin did not.
@@juanpabloibanez1538 it really looks like you didn't read the comment, im gonna briefly summarize what that person tried to get across, and mind you that most of these reasons were acknowledged by Stalin at the same time, so he didn't go through reason after reason desperately trying to justify why Germany wouldn't attack 1. Stalin thought France would last longer(wich they could've since dunkirke was against orders) 2. 2 Front wars specially against 2 great powers against 1 is very costly so he believed Germany wouldn't risk it 3. The war was very much against GB's favour at this point and like most countries at this point in time to GB the more that the USSR suffers the better it is. 4. All invasion dates he got from intelligence didn't come true, so there was nothing different from the June 22nd invasion date that made it any more believable than previous ones. 5. No winter clothes for an invasion of Russia, i don't even need to explain why thats ESSENTIAL. Can you now see that it wasn't such a stupid decision then? i get it that with the power of hindsight everything seems so obvious but its not as simple as that.
I would like to add that on the night of June 21-22, an order was given to put the troops on full combat readiness and occupy fortified areas on the border, disperse and camouflage aviation at airfields, and prepare to black out cities and important objects. The name of the order is "Order of the People's Commissar of Defense No. 1 dated June 22, 1941." ("Приказ Народного Комиссара Обороны № 1 от 22 июня 1941 г." in Russian). But the order was given at about half past midnight on June 22 and simply did not have time to go down the chain of command "military district - army - corps - division". The tales about the short-sighted Stalin, who foresaw full-scale Western aggression against Soviet Russia back in the 1920s, are wildly annoying.
It is hard to hide something that involves more people than any military operation ever. Even more so if you have boastful oafs like Göring on your side.
The only somewhat successfully hidden massive operation in the last 100 years was the Nato exercise, Able Archer 83, www.bbc.com/future/article/20181108-the-wargame-that-could-have-ended-the-world But it also got detected after a few days of going on. There is a reason why covert operations are formed by very small teams, otherwise you will be detected. Another factor about german leadership especially around 1940 was that almost everyone disagreed on how to proceed. Even Hitler did not fully know what to do after the Battle of France, he was bewildered that the UK kept fighting on, and Göring did not want any fighting in Eastern Europe. Others of the German leadership were not eager to have a two front war either, and some of the lower ranks in regions like Prussia were not really keen on having a war next to them in a two front war. Just think of the military situation in the wast, like any Nato member, there is no way in hell that you could keep any military operation secret after the questionable Iraq invasion. Mostly people on left, but someone would talk due to disagreement of the idea. It would be the biggest crackdown in history required, to not have something like that leaking. The Americans and English knew about this human behaviour leading up to D-Day, which is why they confused even the generals about what the plan was. You cannot leak a plan you do not understand yourself. It's either that, or be so frightening that no one even dares to speak up. Which only worked for about 30 years before technology caught up with that possibility in USSR. One of the reasons why Khrushchev did a lot of reforms after Stalin died, to hide and cover some of the Stalin era things that were leaking.
UwU Germany senpai is that the secret plans to invade the Soviet union in your pockets or are you really happ.. wait no why Germany why you do this? Why u invade Soviet union
Any leadership is made up of people, and people generally love to hear themselves talk. The more people your secret plan requires to be in the know, the greater the likelihood that someone will blab about it to the wrong person. Even more so if you've recruited many cadres from among an aristocratic elite, which was true in Germany even after 23 years of democracy and fascism - those are some gossipy bitches.
@@BangFarang1 Still, I find it hilarious that Halder would say that instead of eg. "Europe and Home of Asiatic Hordes or Bolshevik Asia". I mean, shouldn't a proper nazi deny "European" label to Untermenschenland first ? :)
I have a saying I often use; "I don't trust anybody but me ... and I keep a very close eye on me, because I never know when I might jump up and screw myself over!"
I love these 'behind the scenes' of the war episodes. I think most of us here know about the timeline of WW2 so when Indy puts out episodes about logistics, comms, intelligence, espionage, technology, ect its a lot more fascinating IMO because it isn't talked about as much. Always love hearing about the war from both the axis and allied perspectives as well! Best history channel out there (save for maybe dr mark felton)
Really loved the unexpected Astrid bit at the end, always a pleasure to listen whilst she tells about the house and its history. Real hyped for the bio specials.
Germany's own ambassador telling Stalin his country was going to attack Stalin's? wowow I literally actually couldn't have made this up. No wonder Stalin's head was in a spin.
You can't really blame the guy, everyone wanted to provoke the war between USSR and Germany. Allies, to ease the pressure on themselves, Axis for then having an excuse (that they later fabricated anyway). And while Stalin appeared to dismiss the information gathered, if you look at the number of mobilized troops and their deployment, you'd see that it wasn't really "fake news" approach, quite the contrary. Soviets did as much as possible WITHOUT sparking the war themselves, which was the point - prolong as much as possible and try to give as little excuse as possible. In a world where the Red Army mobilizes fully and rushes to the border, German "preemptive war" argument has merit. Also, an army defending the whole border against the concentrated attacks means that in those early encirclements the whole Red Army gets destroyed, instead of fractions of it that provided for the deployment of defense-in-depth strategy that ultimately stopped the Germans. False intelligence is a common way of manipulating your enemies - fake operation plans etc. It is not just about getting the truth, but how you respond to it. For example, British knew quite a lot about German plans once Enigma was cracked, but they acted only on SOME of the intelligence as to prevent the Germans from figuring out that the code was broken. Intel war is a very strange and difficult game to play. So don't be quick to judge.
This could become a ladder meme. Source 1: Germany plans to invade USSR. Stalin: Nyet British Intelligence: Germans planning on attacking you in 1941 Stalin: lies Churchill: Hitler gonna attack you bruh Stalin: Nope US intelligence: Germany gonna attack you in June 41 Stalin: Don't believe you. German ambassador: We are literally preparing to invade you after June 20,1941. Stalin: Get outta here Germany actually invades: Just fake news. ....
@@hammer3721 Yup, and only an ignorant westerner can mistake a Serb for a Russian. You've disqualified yourself from this discussion, even if we neglect ad-hominem "argumentation".
Really enjoyed the humanity in Astrid's section. A little hard to hear her at times but the passion and content was very clear. She must be very patient putting up with those brutish gobblins spouting gibberish in the back ground while she tries to concentrate. The segment made me laugh and feel part of the team. Top work. Entertaining and informative.
I remember reading about the broken code used by the Japanese ambassador in “the secret war” by Max Hastings. Sorge’s input until his arrest, not just in the build up to Barbarossa but also about the lack of willingness of Japan to attack Russia in 1941 cannot be overstated. Unbelievably interesting read and a lot of crazy in-depth material on the subject, I would highly recommend!
Prior to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire the term 'The Balkans' was somewhat more fluid and sometimes was used to refer to the European part of the Ottoman Empire, and so not really Europe by some. That would have been the usage that Halder probably grew up with. It's geographically not correct, but then the term was pretty poorly described in the first place and rather arbitrary.
A person who had to leave Germany when the Nazi`s came to power later became the mayor of Berlin and he was the big boss of the BDR. The time away from Germany he spent in Norway and befriended with all the Sosialist democrats. He won the Nobel peace price. Who is this man? None other than Willy Brandt! Keep up the good work!
It is very difficult to trust the West. It's like believing a prostitute that she wasn't sick. There are no guarantees. Sorry but that's what the Russians think.
Boy! I remember those early Great War days, seems like it was so long ago now. But I sincerely think you guys are doing some of the most important historical work of our generation. Compiling all these different sources week by week for people to be able to learn from. I was always a pretty big WW2 buff, but I have learned so many things from your episodes that have completely changed my perspective of many aspects of the war.
Stalin in 1945: oh boy I sure hope none of my comrades does an embarrassing speech after my death in 1953 concerning how I ignored all those warnings of German invasion
I read an interesting post on Facebook several years ago on the Soviet response to the Intelligence warnings on the coming German attack. According to the writer, a young Israeli historian (I'm not mentioning his name because I did not ask his permission for it) of Russian origin, Stalin and Golikov were looking for one telling sign for war - a German preparations for a winter war. Soviet agents were stealing oil from German vehicles in Poland and sending these samples to Moscow through diplomatic mail. Other agents collected samples of cotton cloth with gun oil around German army camps. Both were analyzed for anti-freeze additive to them. None were found. Golikov demanded from his staff to provide him a report, several times a day, of the price of Mutton in the foodstuff stock exchange in Europe, believing that in once the price of Mutton wile dive it will be a sign for the Germans preparing stocks of Sheep skins and wool for winter uniform. No change. In one point, after many intelligence warnings came, but no sign for German winter preparations, Stalin exclaimed that it can't be possible that the Germans believe that they can defeat the USSR in 3 months! The reality was that the Germans actually thought they could….
True story: Stalin had instructed his bodyguards to not enter his room no matter what. He faked a heart attack and his bodyguards rushed in to save him. He was disappointed in them for disobedience and had them executed.
By 1943, Stalin was a different guy at least when it came to military affairs. He listened to the advise of Marshal Zhukov, Vasilevsky and his General Staff. Stalin also understood the importance of intelligence at that stage of the war.
I dont get why people talk about the german dow on the USA as, if the nazis simply didnt declared war, the americans would not get involved. All Hitler did was take the lead on the inevitable. At least that way the kriegsmarine would be able to target american vessels without risk of negative repercutions
Can I just say this episode is one of my favourites just for the ending part. Deeply appreciate these look-ins to your production staff/values. Would be nice to see some videos of bloopers and fails and slipups and some personal thoughts on what you do.
I guess Stalin just could not believe that Hitler would be so foolish to invade the Soviet Union. The sheer size of Russia guarantees that such an invasion was bound to fail. Especially for a nation that had no sufficient oil supply.
At that time USA had imposed sanctions on USSR for its military actions against Finland. Why would Stalin think that USA, that had shown itself to be adversarial, would share intelligence "just out of the goodness of their heart" ?
@@zico739 yep, and the curriculum you choose. Not only does it vary by state, it also varies by individual school districts within the state. Additionally, it will vary if you take College Prep, Honors, Advanced Placement, or International Baccalaureate
@@taureaurouge3315 I just ment Middle school, High school They teach almost no history nowadays. And A lot of College require a lot less history and more English and Math nowadays. Just my observation.
@@necromorph1109 what do you mean? I've learned more history in my freshman and senior years of high school combined than any other period of my life. And in my sophomore and junior years I learned some of the most in-depth US history than I ever had before
Whenever I hear about this I always imagine someone in an alternate timeline saying "Stalin was weak and listened to his whatever his advisors told him. It was obvious from a strategic perspective that Hitler wouldn't invade the USSR" Can't remember who said it but its something like "In a stressful situation you need to make 100 decisions a minute and none of them have right answers, you just need to act"
Finally a video that s realistic on the goal of the campaign. 3:20 . Most believe that Baku was the target from the beginning cause of oil. In fact oil had little to do with the goals. Later the Germans needed Baku but not to fan their industry and warmachine but to hamper down ussr's
Im starting to read books about ww2, and as I read recently in Thunder on the Dneper (if I remember correctly the name) Stalin knew and believed those reports about the invasion, but in order to his plans to work (Made togheter with zhukov and timoshenko, sorry for misspeling if there is), he had to act as he wasn't aware. That would prevent Germans from changing his plans, and also would make the first echelon of the ussr not feel like they were going to be sacrificed, wich they were. I recommend the book
Stalin risked it to not provoke the Germans in any way, even if that meant that the frontier would be weaker the first months of the war. Of course he knew (at least that's what the books says) that the war couldn't be avoided, but he had to try to delay it as long as possible
At the same time that Stalin thought the reason he couldn't trust the Allies was because he imagined they were plotting against him with the Nazi's, he believed Hitler's explanation for troop build ups on the boarders.
Several sources were used for this episode, including our own scripts from the past year, but John Waller’s “The Unseen War in Europe” was a pretty big one. Mainly for his organization of the various elements of Barbarossa intelligence.
Be sure to check out our rules of conduct before you comment!
community.timeghost.tv/t/rules-of-conduct/4518
I would say a lot
So not just Wikipedia this time unlike the "Der Bismarck" debacle? 😜
hey can you make a video of the waffen ss, snipers and hand to hand combat in other countries
2:44 So according to Hitler, in other words, the best option to avoid the USSR joining as enemies is to... make them our enemies. \(•_•)/
@comsubpac that was funny
Everyone's doing the "fake news" routine and I'm loving the end with Astrid.
Indy: "Shame you're married!"
Sparty: "...NO IT ISN'T!"
Indy: "Well, 50/50."
@Yeah Nah
You'd piss off the guy who does War Against Humanity?
Damn son, if only your brain was a quarter of the size of your balls.....
😜
Very similar vests and ties. I had to rewind to do a double-take.
I guess a lot of people are too young to remember Annie Hall. All Astrid needs is the hat.
@@MrNicoJac No worries. Indy's gf is on the crew. She was at the breakfast.
This fills in the familial info, for some of us. I was guessing she and Spart were the couple, but hadn't heard or read any conformation.
@@jeffeppenbach weren't they married?
Astrid Dienard-Olsson??
British: "Germans are going to attack you."
Americans: "Germans are going to attack you."
Soviets: "Germans are going to attack you."
Germans: "We're going to attack you."
Stalin: "Keep absolutely still; German vision is based on movement."
🤣
Soviets: German going to attack US.
he was always blind drunk ,,,,
Hitler's plan was straight up aggression and Stalin misjudged that.
That costs the frontline troops arrayed at the border.
The USSR is so big that plan B is always there, as in Napoleon's day.
What does he do? Would something be misinterpreted. Moving troops back to deeper defensive lines might appear weak.Bad for a dictator and invites attack, when you want to front up to the Nazis.
I think Stalin's plan is to take the pain and move to Plan B if the unlikely invasion happened.
@Ordinary Sessel yeah,one of the main reasons of the German defeat was that they were fighting a two front war,which started due to both a hatred for Slavs and communism,and to get that much needed🛢,to keep on fighting.
The set is getting really excellent I love the noir esque lighting
jonathan ramont do you now? Maybe you need to get out more, then?
@@billy4072 Did you reply to the wrong comment?
@@ProvidenceNL No he just thought it was a smart thing to say. :-))
sad that i can't see the usual photo of good ol Hotzendorf in the back, it was really amazing
The effort that goes into some TH-cam channels is excellent! No wonder television is dead.
"Italy is pinning down British forces" Are you sure about that Franz?
well in theory - and expense of teritory :D
British needed to use a lot of resources against Italy in Mediterranian and in North Africa. Those resources were desperatley needed against Germany.
@@spqr1945 desperately needed where?
@@samarkand1585 Battle of Atlantic required a lot of ships and planes. Convoys to Malta were costly for british navy and troops in North Africa required ammunitions, personal and commercial shiping. If not Italy, maybe allies would be able to land in France the whole year earlier.
Considering when he wrote that (end of July, 1940), there is nothing to reconsider. The Italians were about to begin the conquest of British Somaliland, had already begun using airpower against the British in East Africa, and would launch their invasion of Egypt in September. The Italian navy had just fought the Royal Navy to a standstill at the Battle of Calabria, allowing their reinforcement convoy to reach Benghazi unscathed despite the presence of three British battleships against only two Italian ones.
Now, if Halder had been writing in October after watching the Italian army camp out at Sidi Barrani (100 km inside Egypt) for weeks, or the end of October after the Italians added Greece to their list of problems, or mid-November after the raid on Taranto crippled the Italian fleet, then he'd have come to a different conclusion. At the end of July, though, it's hard to say he was entirely wrong.
Everyone: great leader, your mustache is on fire!!!
Stalin: don't be ridiculous, these blatant lies are too obvious to be believed. Also, it sure is hot in here!
Also, someone started a
barbecue!
So he's actually Dr. Weird?
"Gentlemen! Where's my mustache?!"
"I-it's right there... on your face..."
"oh... *BULLS%!T!* "
@@moosemaimer Stalin as Doctor Weird makes a lot of sense....
IT HUNGERS.... FOR _MORE_
You're in shock. Joseph Stalin's moustache doesn't catch fire.
Yes, but me and the fire have a deal not to hurt each other.
Germany: moves troops to the border with the soviet union.
Stalin: *Fake news!*
*Laughing in American*
Damnit... I was gonna make that joke
@Plamen Stoev
Himself.
Haha, no kidding. Human psychology in that regard certainly is interesting. Well, less so when it involves the possible death of millions of people.
@Plamen Stoev ... uh-huh ... riii-iiiiight ... ! .................
He’d trust me, we would be best friends
@Yeah Nah STAY AWAY. SHE'S MINE!
he had a thing for rockets as well.
Do u trust David skylark
Of course he would Great Leader! You're both born of the Revolution and great friends of the proletariat.
@@nygothuey6607 hey. We all know the true dear great leader is in the US. Merika!
The logic in Stalin's behavior here - 1. Stalin thought his country needed at least another year to face German's might. (he did not expect the collapse of France to be that soon). 2. Stalin thought Germany would not risk to start a war against the Soviet Union before making peace with GB. 3. Stalin was sure GB is desperate to drag him into the war against Germany. 4. Stalin received dates of invasion from his intelligence starting from March and all these predictions failed except the last one - on June 22. So for him a warning about June 22 invasion sounded like another disinformation. 5. Stalin's intelligence reported - there is no signs of German's Army mass preparing winter clothes. And u kinda need it if u are planing to invade Russia.
Stalin's main motivation was - he desperately needed another year and his mind rejected anything that was contradicting his plans.
So...he was a idiot
@@juanpabloibanez1538 did you even read the comment?
@@gutty5475 Yes, I did and the only thing that makes it clear to me is that the guy had all the warnings he wanted and didn't pay attention to them, just because "mah country is not prepared". A good and capable leader adapts to the constant changes both inside and outside the country and according to the comment, Stalin did not.
@@juanpabloibanez1538 it really looks like you didn't read the comment, im gonna briefly summarize what that person tried to get across, and mind you that most of these reasons were acknowledged by Stalin at the same time, so he didn't go through reason after reason desperately trying to justify why Germany wouldn't attack
1. Stalin thought France would last longer(wich they could've since dunkirke was against orders)
2. 2 Front wars specially against 2 great powers against 1 is very costly so he believed Germany wouldn't risk it
3. The war was very much against GB's favour at this point and like most countries at this point in time to GB the more that the USSR suffers the better it is.
4. All invasion dates he got from intelligence didn't come true, so there was nothing different from the June 22nd invasion date that made it any more believable than previous ones.
5. No winter clothes for an invasion of Russia, i don't even need to explain why thats ESSENTIAL.
Can you now see that it wasn't such a stupid decision then? i get it that with the power of hindsight everything seems so obvious but its not as simple as that.
I would like to add that on the night of June 21-22, an order was given to put the troops on full combat readiness and occupy fortified areas on the border, disperse and camouflage aviation at airfields, and prepare to black out cities and important objects.
The name of the order is "Order of the People's Commissar of Defense No. 1 dated June 22, 1941." ("Приказ Народного Комиссара Обороны № 1 от 22 июня 1941 г." in Russian).
But the order was given at about half past midnight on June 22 and simply did not have time to go down the chain of command "military district - army - corps - division".
The tales about the short-sighted Stalin, who foresaw full-scale Western aggression against Soviet Russia back in the 1920s, are wildly annoying.
Hitler: I will attack the USSR in June
Stalin:.....
Hitler:.....
Stalin: Don't believe u!
"Ja we are very much attacking"
"Too bad i trust no one besides my self"
Soviet intelligence : The Germans have a leak!
Stalin : Must be the damn kulaks selling them food.
A man must have intelligence in order to use military intelligence. He's an idiot.
Hitler: Don’t want to cause a two front war for Germany
Also Hitler: Start a two front war because he has a beef for communism
@@USSAnimeNCC- its a little more complicated than that
André Luis yeah, it's not like USSR wouldn't invade them when they're not expecting it
@@sharkronical Also, it's not like there was any proper front in Europe after France had gone down.
"Shame you're married!"
"No it isn't!!!"
😆😆😆
It's impressive how leaky Germanys leadership was
75 years before Wiki leaks ?
It is hard to hide something that involves more people than any military operation ever. Even more so if you have boastful oafs like Göring on your side.
The only somewhat successfully hidden massive operation in the last 100 years was the Nato exercise, Able Archer 83, www.bbc.com/future/article/20181108-the-wargame-that-could-have-ended-the-world
But it also got detected after a few days of going on.
There is a reason why covert operations are formed by very small teams, otherwise you will be detected.
Another factor about german leadership especially around 1940 was that almost everyone disagreed on how to proceed. Even Hitler did not fully know what to do after the Battle of France, he was bewildered that the UK kept fighting on, and Göring did not want any fighting in Eastern Europe.
Others of the German leadership were not eager to have a two front war either, and some of the lower ranks in regions like Prussia were not really keen on having a war next to them in a two front war.
Just think of the military situation in the wast, like any Nato member, there is no way in hell that you could keep any military operation secret after the questionable Iraq invasion. Mostly people on left, but someone would talk due to disagreement of the idea. It would be the biggest crackdown in history required, to not have something like that leaking.
The Americans and English knew about this human behaviour leading up to D-Day, which is why they confused even the generals about what the plan was. You cannot leak a plan you do not understand yourself.
It's either that, or be so frightening that no one even dares to speak up. Which only worked for about 30 years before technology caught up with that possibility in USSR. One of the reasons why Khrushchev did a lot of reforms after Stalin died, to hide and cover some of the Stalin era things that were leaking.
UwU Germany senpai is that the secret plans to invade the Soviet union in your pockets or are you really happ.. wait no why Germany why you do this? Why u invade Soviet union
Any leadership is made up of people, and people generally love to hear themselves talk. The more people your secret plan requires to be in the know, the greater the likelihood that someone will blab about it to the wrong person. Even more so if you've recruited many cadres from among an aristocratic elite, which was true in Germany even after 23 years of democracy and fascism - those are some gossipy bitches.
"Germany will be then master of Europe *and the Balkans* "
Halder. Stahp. Don't you have enough enemies already?
The Balkans had been separated from the Ottoman empire not long ago, so in the people mind they were still seen as Asian or something in between.
@@BangFarang1 Still, I find it hilarious that Halder would say that instead of eg. "Europe and Home of Asiatic Hordes or Bolshevik Asia". I mean, shouldn't a proper nazi deny "European" label to Untermenschenland first ? :)
That 'analysis' sounded as sound an analysis as "2020 is going to be a great year."
4:20 Göring being, once again, a magnificent charicature of himself XD
Lol I thought exactly the same, even in a picture he comes across as a pompous ass
@@ImtheHitcher exactly hahahaha
Astrid is a treat and wonderful guest appearance! Now I appreciate the studio location much better.
@Yeah Nah Speak for yourself! ... or at least wait until I know who you're talking about.
Trust nobody, not even yourself
Especially yourself!
I have a saying I often use; "I don't trust anybody but me ... and I keep a very close eye on me, because I never know when I might jump up and screw myself over!"
Fixed: Trust nobody, not even yousseff.
@@veeaa "I hate that Josef, he keeps Stalin my stuff!"
People who took it too far
I love these 'behind the scenes' of the war episodes. I think most of us here know about the timeline of WW2 so when Indy puts out episodes about logistics, comms, intelligence, espionage, technology, ect its a lot more fascinating IMO because it isn't talked about as much. Always love hearing about the war from both the axis and allied perspectives as well! Best history channel out there (save for maybe dr mark felton)
German Ambassador: "The invasion is real"
Stalin: "Fake n e w s"
Really loved the unexpected Astrid bit at the end, always a pleasure to listen whilst she tells about the house and its history. Real hyped for the bio specials.
Proper vintage tie from grandpa's closet. Gotta respect that. 3/5
And what about Indy's clothes?
Eventually, everyone associated with this channel will be wearing ties. You'll be busy!
Gianni, will your ratings be included with the ties that are being auctioned?
@@TheCimbrianBull I didn't start right away, and I'm not a part of Timeghost so I assume not.
Agree, 3/5
Germany's own ambassador telling Stalin his country was going to attack Stalin's?
wowow
I literally actually couldn't have made this up. No wonder Stalin's head was in a spin.
You can't really blame the guy, everyone wanted to provoke the war between USSR and Germany. Allies, to ease the pressure on themselves, Axis for then having an excuse (that they later fabricated anyway). And while Stalin appeared to dismiss the information gathered, if you look at the number of mobilized troops and their deployment, you'd see that it wasn't really "fake news" approach, quite the contrary. Soviets did as much as possible WITHOUT sparking the war themselves, which was the point - prolong as much as possible and try to give as little excuse as possible.
In a world where the Red Army mobilizes fully and rushes to the border, German "preemptive war" argument has merit. Also, an army defending the whole border against the concentrated attacks means that in those early encirclements the whole Red Army gets destroyed, instead of fractions of it that provided for the deployment of defense-in-depth strategy that ultimately stopped the Germans.
False intelligence is a common way of manipulating your enemies - fake operation plans etc. It is not just about getting the truth, but how you respond to it.
For example, British knew quite a lot about German plans once Enigma was cracked, but they acted only on SOME of the intelligence as to prevent the Germans from figuring out that the code was broken. Intel war is a very strange and difficult game to play. So don't be quick to judge.
And Canaris the head of German intelligence working against the Nazis
@@Wustenfuchs109 Don't be quick to judge Stalin ? Yeah, evidently only a Russian could say that about the Geogrian lover of genocide.
This could become a ladder meme.
Source 1: Germany plans to invade USSR.
Stalin: Nyet
British Intelligence: Germans planning on attacking you in 1941
Stalin: lies
Churchill: Hitler gonna attack you bruh
Stalin: Nope
US intelligence: Germany gonna attack you in June 41
Stalin: Don't believe you.
German ambassador: We are literally preparing to invade you after June 20,1941.
Stalin: Get outta here
Germany actually invades: Just fake news.
....
@@hammer3721 Yup, and only an ignorant westerner can mistake a Serb for a Russian. You've disqualified yourself from this discussion, even if we neglect ad-hominem "argumentation".
It must be a privilege to be connected so strongly with an important part of history. Good on you two that you preserved Woods' house!
@Yeah Nah So we should probably move congress to a gymnasium with plastic chairs, everyone in agreement?
It's bad to start a war without a valid Casus Belli. Leads to a loss of stability.
Hitler had a lot of adm points and dip ideas as it seems
The ending was quite possibly the funniest moment ever on this channel.
Really enjoyed the humanity in Astrid's section. A little hard to hear her at times but the passion and content was very clear. She must be very patient putting up with those brutish gobblins spouting gibberish in the back ground while she tries to concentrate. The segment made me laugh and feel part of the team. Top work. Entertaining and informative.
So basically Stalin was in stage one of grief after the winter war:
denial
"No no no It didnt cost us a few hundred thousand men right?"
i was scrolling on my phone and i swear i tought you guys gave stalin bunny ears on the thumbnail
I was thinking donkey ears,an ass
I thought devil horns
Just noticed these are questionmarks. I kinda accepted the bunny ears without thinking, my brain got damaged from anime stuff I guess🤣
Good video keep up the good work
Excellent production as usual. Thank-you Indy.(corrected thanks to the reply!)
We love you
😍 Indy
The absolute fact that they're filming in Sam Woods's old house is absolutely amazing and I'm cheesing out with glee over this 😂
Astrid's story telling is so soothing like she could be telling me about the holocaust and I'd peacefully fall asleep to her voice
Which is why Sparty does that instead.
I remember reading about the broken code used by the Japanese ambassador in “the secret war” by Max Hastings. Sorge’s input until his arrest, not just in the build up to Barbarossa but also about the lack of willingness of Japan to attack Russia in 1941 cannot be overstated.
Unbelievably interesting read and a lot of crazy in-depth material on the subject, I would highly recommend!
Love it how Halder says: "...Europe AND the Balkans" :,D
I don't even know anymore....
Prior to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire the term 'The Balkans' was somewhat more fluid and sometimes was used to refer to the European part of the Ottoman Empire, and so not really Europe by some. That would have been the usage that Halder probably grew up with. It's geographically not correct, but then the term was pretty poorly described in the first place and rather arbitrary.
Really enjoyed the bonus information from Astrid. Another great video from World War Two/Time Ghost.
Wait wait wait! WHY DOESN'T ASTRID HAVE HER OWN SUB SERIES? I mean... I'd love to watch it! She seems so jolly and nice! She'd be a great presenter
@Yeah Nah I'm aware of that, I'm saying that having her on the sunshine side of the camera would be amazing too
Yeah Nah She can totally pull it off!
This comment aged well!
Last time I was this early they said we'd be home by Christmas
Oof
Trieste is nice in the fall, perhaps once the Kaiser knocks off all this silliness a nice vacation on the shores of the Adriatic is in order.
Brian Kirz Well the solders were all home by Christmas, they never said which one they would be home by.
Stalin: "Hitler would never attack me, we did a pinky swear!"
A person who had to leave Germany when the Nazi`s came to power later became the mayor of Berlin and he was the big boss of the BDR. The time away from Germany he spent in Norway and befriended with all the Sosialist democrats. He won the Nobel peace price. Who is this man? None other than Willy Brandt! Keep up the good work!
Intel:"How much intelligence do you need?"
Stalin: "Yes".
It is very difficult to trust the West. It's like believing a prostitute that she wasn't sick. There are no guarantees. Sorry but that's what the Russians think.
@@Ridddigg And the Soviets paid a gruesome price in blood because Stalin did not believe even his spies.
Boy! I remember those early Great War days, seems like it was so long ago now. But I sincerely think you guys are doing some of the most important historical work of our generation. Compiling all these different sources week by week for people to be able to learn from. I was always a pretty big WW2 buff, but I have learned so many things from your episodes that have completely changed my perspective of many aspects of the war.
I guess Stalins motto should have been: "Distrust, but verify."
Last time I was this early the Invasion of Barbarossa hasnt been stalled yet.... not that I know of anything...
You could say it was 'stalin' 😃
Defeatism will not be tolerated in the Wehrmacht!
Stalled? are you out of your head AA will be achieved by Christmas
@@stephencarroll9935 wdym? Its only kicking down the front door and the rotten structure comes crumbling down
Onwards to Stalingrad with exposed flanks!
"Stalin needed to stall for time"
You'd think Stalin'd be better at stalling.
Stalin in 1945: oh boy I sure hope none of my comrades does an embarrassing speech after my death in 1953 concerning how I ignored all those warnings of German invasion
I absolutely love the work you fine people put into these videos!
thanks
Old Joke my grandfather told was:
Stalin looks at the mirror and says
Joseph, I don't trust you either!
Phone call> I can't believe he did it. I mean didn't Molotov have that big hit song and all. LMAO. Great video Indy.
I wonder which killed more, Stalin's politics or his incompetence.
yes
@@jrk1666 Close to the edge
Politics, the guy could plan, it was just a matter of what he was planning.
It wasnt really incompetence, just an extension of his politics. So, I guess politics
Politics, I think he wasn't incompetent so yeah politics.
Stalin is the original "Nah, it'll be fine" guy.
incredible work bringing history to life, thanks for this! ~
Stalin needed to... *Stall* for time, you say?
*ba dum tss!* 🥁 😂 🤣 😅
Great show, and yes, Astrid, you look AWESOME in a tie!
Kudos to you guys for preserving Sam Woods' house !
I'm hooked on your videos. Nice work.
The thumbnail is amazing.
I read an interesting post on Facebook several years ago on the Soviet response to the Intelligence warnings on the coming German attack. According to the writer, a young Israeli historian (I'm not mentioning his name because I did not ask his permission for it) of Russian origin, Stalin and Golikov were looking for one telling sign for war - a German preparations for a winter war. Soviet agents were stealing oil from German vehicles in Poland and sending these samples to Moscow through diplomatic mail. Other agents collected samples of cotton cloth with gun oil around German army camps. Both were analyzed for anti-freeze additive to them. None were found. Golikov demanded from his staff to provide him a report, several times a day, of the price of Mutton in the foodstuff stock exchange in Europe, believing that in once the price of Mutton wile dive it will be a sign for the Germans preparing stocks of Sheep skins and wool for winter uniform. No change.
In one point, after many intelligence warnings came, but no sign for German winter preparations, Stalin exclaimed that it can't be possible that the Germans believe that they can defeat the USSR in 3 months! The reality was that the Germans actually thought they could….
Stalin was so paranoid,he didn't believe anyone,even himself.
Trump of USSR
@@rusoviettovarich9221 да, товарищ
Everyone was out to get him!
Top info...better than cable x100 thanks mate
Was there intel about Stalin's heart attack too?
i don't think such a thing exists,but he made the mistake of killing his own doctors.😬
Who knows, has anyone ever taken a look in Berias files.
True story: Stalin had instructed his bodyguards to not enter his room no matter what. He faked a heart attack and his bodyguards rushed in to save him. He was disappointed in them for disobedience and had them executed.
@@TheCimbrianBull Had they obeyed and NOT come in, he would probably have had them executed for disloyalty, anyway.
@@diarradunlap9337 you just can't win!
Love the content, keep going.
the germans have crossed the border
stalin: no they didn't
General: sir, there's airstrikes from German fighters!!! (Explosion in background)
Stalin: everything is fine.
I love the banter in the episodes. It's always fun. Great work as always everyone.
For a guy who didn't trusted anybody, Stalin really made good use of the British intel about the Kursk Salient.
By 1943, Stalin was a different guy at least when it came to military affairs. He listened to the advise of Marshal Zhukov, Vasilevsky and his General Staff. Stalin also understood the importance of intelligence at that stage of the war.
Didn't Stalin believe it was an imperialist plot to draw him into the war.
1:50 "the war is won"
Hitler : let's declare war on the USA just because Japan bombed some ships in Hawaii
They didn’t even hit anything important.
@@erikthomsen4768 Tell that to the sailors that died.
@@erikthomsen4768 I wouldn't say that but they failed at crippling the US navy.
I dont get why people talk about the german dow on the USA as, if the nazis simply didnt declared war, the americans would not get involved. All Hitler did was take the lead on the inevitable. At least that way the kriegsmarine would be able to target american vessels without risk of negative repercutions
US destroyers were already sinking German U-boats by that time. For all practical purposes, they were at war.
This is the most personal you all have gotten, and I love it! You guys and gals would be so fun to hang out with. I am smiling ear to ear!
Last time I was this early, Italy was still struggling against the greeks
Last time I was this early, Luigi Cardona was still fighting the first ten battles of the Isonzo River.
Can I just say this episode is one of my favourites just for the ending part. Deeply appreciate these look-ins to your production staff/values.
Would be nice to see some videos of bloopers and fails and slipups and some personal thoughts on what you do.
Enough to know the calendar and seasons.
Astrid needs to show up more here, keep up the terrific work, people! Cheers from Brazil
Literally everyone telling Stalin an invasion is coming, Stalin like 'Nah, mate, Germany BFF'.
I guess Stalin just could not believe that Hitler would be so foolish to invade the Soviet Union. The sheer size of Russia guarantees that such an invasion was bound to fail. Especially for a nation that had no sufficient oil supply.
Many leaks about Barbarossa: Exist
Stalin: Nah
At that time USA had imposed sanctions on USSR for its military actions against Finland. Why would Stalin think that USA, that had shown itself to be adversarial, would share intelligence "just out of the goodness of their heart" ?
It's just a prank, bro!
@@Stroporez but you wouldn't hear THAT said in the comments...
hey great post. really enjoyed todays update!!
The juicy part of the war is coming up, I've heard rumors about Japan going to try something come years end. I can't wait for this channel in 1942.
1942?! But what do you mean? The war will be over by Christmas.
TheCimbrianBull no way, the russians will surrender in october and the british in March
Good thing Hong Kong and British Malaya are well protected.
I know, i often feel guilty about how I look forward to terrible events.
The war will be over by Christmas, 1941, I can assure you!
Astrid's fashion is the best. (yes, she put on the tie for a dare, but this sparks joy)
Love you guys. Here in the US we do not really teach World history that much and your channel is a breath of fresh hair.
Depends where you are in the US.
@@zico739 yep, and the curriculum you choose. Not only does it vary by state, it also varies by individual school districts within the state. Additionally, it will vary if you take College Prep, Honors, Advanced Placement, or International Baccalaureate
@@taureaurouge3315 I just ment Middle school, High school They teach almost no history nowadays. And A lot of College require a lot less history and more English and Math nowadays. Just my observation.
@@necromorph1109 what do you mean? I've learned more history in my freshman and senior years of high school combined than any other period of my life. And in my sophomore and junior years I learned some of the most in-depth US history than I ever had before
how much intelligence do you need versus how much denial can a person hold!
Stalin looks like he has bunny ears in the thumbnail lol
Whenever I hear about this I always imagine someone in an alternate timeline saying
"Stalin was weak and listened to his whatever his advisors told him. It was obvious from a strategic perspective that Hitler wouldn't invade the USSR"
Can't remember who said it but its something like
"In a stressful situation you need to make 100 decisions a minute and none of them have right answers, you just need to act"
Yes
US in March: You're gonna be attacked!
Putin: Provocation!
>Stalin needed to stall for time.
Hehe
Stalin went all-in with stall-in'.
Astrid was great. Totally flipped the feel of that episode. Really enjoyed the change of pace.
Stalin be like: I will build a wall... and Germany is gonna pay for that wall, believe me!
Wait no that was Khrushchev
Fake intel! Sad!
Brilliant series. Should be in schools.
Oh yeah came here as fast as the Blitzkrieg
I really enjoy 😉 all these episodes. Sometimes I watch them 2 or 3 times to understand our history.
Everyone: Germany will invade the USSR
Stalin: Im going to do what is called a pro gamer move.
Finally a video that s realistic on the goal of the campaign. 3:20 . Most believe that Baku was the target from the beginning cause of oil. In fact oil had little to do with the goals. Later the Germans needed Baku but not to fan their industry and warmachine but to hamper down ussr's
Im starting to read books about ww2, and as I read recently in Thunder on the Dneper (if I remember correctly the name) Stalin knew and believed those reports about the invasion, but in order to his plans to work (Made togheter with zhukov and timoshenko, sorry for misspeling if there is), he had to act as he wasn't aware. That would prevent Germans from changing his plans, and also would make the first echelon of the ussr not feel like they were going to be sacrificed, wich they were.
I recommend the book
Stalin risked it to not provoke the Germans in any way, even if that meant that the frontier would be weaker the first months of the war. Of course he knew (at least that's what the books says) that the war couldn't be avoided, but he had to try to delay it as long as possible
At the same time that Stalin thought the reason he couldn't trust the Allies was because he imagined they were plotting against him with the Nazi's, he believed Hitler's explanation for troop build ups on the boarders.
Well spotted!
I thought the thumbnail Is cat or bunny stalin
It's Stalin Neko.
Zhukov:Comrade, the Germans are preparing for an attack
Stalin-neko:I dont believe anything you say nya!
I had no idea you guys filmed in Sam Woods' house! That's like a TH-cam channel on the Manson Family being filmed at the Spahn Ranch! Awesome!
Hmmm... we'd prefer to think that it's not _quite_ the same thing.
Damn straight, yuck!
Astrid is fab.
Great episode as always!
2:10
"Europe and the Balkans"
The Balkans is in Europe!
Well... Halder and the other Nazis were not known for having the same definition of reality as the sane part of the world.
7:03 I wonder why a specific part of the film has been blurred?