Rethinking electricity grids.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- As renewable energy developers struggle with the almost impenetrable complexity of regulatory and permitting bureaucracy that can add more than a decade to the timeline of a new installation, clever boffins have been quietly revolutionising the materials used to make the wires that run between the pylons that take electrons from where they're generated to where they're needed. The cost savings, energy efficiency improvements, and speed of installation that those materials are facilitating may just make the difference in the race for decarbonisation.
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I have been a shareholder in an upper Midwest (US) electric utility for over 50 years. I speak with the CEO on a regular basis. This topic has been part of our discussions for the last two years. The companion to this are the sensors which can be placed on the cable that relay temperature information back to the utility. These two technologies can increase the ampacity on the line 30 to 50%.
Excellent, thanks! I would also like to see more distributed solar and batteries, and more incentives for home and business owners to install them. Also, the weak link for that essential distributed electricity generation is excessively high battery prices. A $1,300 Powerwall néeds to store 40 kWh of electricity, not its currently pathetic 13.Here in California, I generate more than enough electricity to power a home and EV. But, I need a small, affordable, EV work pickup, not the $100,000 monster trucks currently available. And, I need40 kWh of electricity storage to go off grid.
@@freeheeler09I haven't dug into this, but I'm hearing that some good deals are available on the F-150 Lightning.
It's energy storage features are pretty impressive.
@@freeheeler09 agreed! However, what if the EV car WAS the main battery, while the powerwall was the backup for while the EV car was in use?
Sounds great. I have seen an article about these sensor balls. Thing is, how does a dynamic current-carrying capacity on the line fit with the rated capacities of switchgear and transformers?
@@freeheeler09 You may want to look into Edison Motors. They are planning to sell conversion kits for old pickup trucks, starting with 1 ton axles for economies of scale.
I'm a utility regulator in Maryland, USA. You are 100% correct. Currently, it takes between 8 and 17 years to build a new transmission wire. Reconductoring and the reuse of existing rights of way is the strategy!
Does upgrading to cables that can carry more current require any adjustments to permits? I was under the impression that (at least in parts of Canada) permits specify a maximum allowed wattage. I could very well be wrong on this, however.
Increasing capacity only requires a fairly routine permitting adjustment.
Are all new us-based transmission lines built this way? If not why not
Right now the United States is transitioning to the latest transmission technology. The inflation reduction act has a lot of money in it for that kind of changeover.
@@MajLeader Which is getting pocketed by the usual suspects. $7.5 bn for charging stations. zero built.
Wonderful video and message. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I'm one of the founders of CTC and co-inventor of the ACCC Conductor. Quite a challenge convincing utilities to embrace modern technology to solve modern challenges. Fortunately we've supported 300 utilities in 66 countries supplying to 1,250+ projects. There is hope :)
Thanks to you for being one of the smart guys who gets good things done!
Graphenest can help in this topic.
Was the problem convincing the Utilities companies or convincing their Insurers .
When ever I have been involved with introducing new technology, getting the business on side , well ok the technicians in the company , was the easy bit as the techs understand the technology and the management understand bigger profits ( even brain dead accountants with MBAs ) . The big problem was convincing the insurance companies that the new tech is a good idea because they do not understand anything more technical than a paper clip and no one ever wants to sign off on anything different that may in the future cause a big pay out that of course they would carry the can for . Renewing policies that some one else wrote decades ago totally absolves them from any blame should a power line cause a bushfire / city fire that does $2,500,000,000 worth of claimable damage .
Perfect example now is EV insurance . After the Luton Airport fire no auto insurer is willing to insure EVs and this is the one & only reason why Tesla is such a big seller, because Tesla insures all of their vehicles ( for an extra cost naturally )
From what I understand, a big holdup with this has to do with the perverse incentives of investor-owned utilities: building new stuff counts as _adding assets_ while, as noted, upgrading the wires on existing stuff counts as _maintenance_ - that is, _cost_ - so the former looks better on their balance books than the latter, despite the latter being a far more efficient way to increase capacity.
Utilities are regulated monopolies, and one of the regulations is that they get a guaranteed return on investment. The more they spend, the more they make. Thus they are incentivized to waste money. I don't know if the rule cares if the spending is capital assets or maintenance, but it's a rule that needs to be fixed.
Privatized power grids are stupid.
Good point. Maintenance can add value to the balance sheet if there is a significant increase in utility. Part of the cost is expensed, and part is capitalized. However, there may be tax benefits to expensing as maintenance as compared to capitalizing. What I don't know is if changing the classification from maintenance to upgrade will require a change in permitting requirements. Permits may allow for a maximum amount of wattage. All this information should appear in the notes to the financial statements. Not that many people actually read the notes.
@dwc1964 Thanks, this is exactly what I was wondering: are the grids replacing old cables with these new ones, and if not, why? Presumably when cables near end of life they get replaced with whatever is the newest tech (assuming they don't have a warehouse full of the old stuff). But replacing cables that are still "good"? Sigh. It's good to know the tech will make it's way out there eventually.
@@Indra-Ant Ha it seems some utilities don't replace their cables until they sag and catch the landscape on fire.
Dave, you're one of the best. Your regular updating of the energy/renewable landscape is appreciated and valuable.
I'm not impressed with anyone who believes GHG Theory. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas equal to CO2 according to theory. There is on average 50 times as much in the atmosphere as CO2. There are still no proposals for draining the oceans. Water vapor is not persistent? According to the theory water vapor's lack of persistence in the atmosphere (rain) means WV only counts for heating, not for evaporating more water vapor. Which is absurd because heating causes evaporation.
The theory is bunk.
Quite right. Well said ...
I am someone with a pice of land that the transmission authority would like to traverse. The land is in Tasmania, around 70 acres mainly of cool temperate rainforest, and has been a conservation project for us for more than 40 years. Of course, we hope that they will not need to do this, but if they do it will be a fly-over between high points, and they claim our forest will be untouched. So listening to you speak about sag was very interesting. I intend to share this with TasNetworks and asking them to comment. Engaging with them has not been pleasant or fruitful to dat, but you never know. Thank you for your erudite piece - I've subscribed.
Some encouraging news for a change. Thanks as always Dave.
With an aging grid people are leaning towards roof top solar + batteries or generators to provide power while the grid is down. Every state has their own rules for selling power back to the grid. Some states are revoking net metering rules. We need to encourage rooftop solar to be paired with batteries so the utility could buy power from residential customers when the grid is over loaded.
That's a horrible idea; then you'll have reliable power that you're in charge of.
The power company pays a discounted wholesale, like 10% of retail price. I know people with rooftop solar who break even 3 months a year, and pay for power the other 9 months. Then there's the property tax increase by installing solar. Painful increases in taxes due to the state.
@@katjordan3733 US home solar installations are about 3X time more expensive than AU. A trump holdover. Some of it has been backed off but the utility companies want to keep it.
@@danharold3087In our area, a company went door to door, offering to install 'free' solar. It has been a nightmare for some when their property taxes skyrocketed. So it's a concern for many that solar is a scam. One company ruined it for a lot of people.
Keep up the hopeful topics. Always innovation must be assessed in the real world.
When I gradated with a BSEE in 1978, it was common knowledge that the transmission system was the "redheaded step-child" of the "Grid". It hasn't changed.
Because they get so hot?
🤣@@TS-kt3nf
@@TS-kt3nf I bet you were laughing at your own joke when you were typing that in! 😂
I'm a transmission planner. Unfortunately, some of what you said is not true here in NY State. Article 7 makes projects even on existing ROW very slow and costly. Our environmental requirements also force us to use matting on most projects where soil will be disturbed, even just by heavy truck traffic, driving up our transmission line work by 40%. No, that is not an exaggeration. Most reconductoring (anywhere) requires all new towers as well, more than doubling the cost. Our average 115 kV line rebuild cost (existing ROW) is around $12M per mile and growing fast. It was half that less than a decade ago. Lastly, I'll mention that reconductoring a *typical* transmission line will get you 2-3x the capacity, and there are limits to what you can transfer at any voltage, regardless of conductor capacity. In cold climates where our biggest peak loading will soon be the backup (auxiliary) heat strips in ducted heat pump systems all kicking on when the heat drops below 10F (because most homeowners are buying the cheap ones that can't do -10 or -20F with the heat pump alone), we're going to need much more than 2-3x the capacity of our existing network, especially when also considering the coming EV loading. We're still grappling with how we're going to handle it. Finally, what good is added transmission capacity when we can't get the added baseload generation that we need? Here's hoping that small modular reactors become a reality and FAST.
SMR is a boodoggle which you would know if you did any research.
All good points, except SMR
Every new nuclear technology arrives with an announcement that “oh, but this time it’s safe! And the science says so!” And ten years later, a bunch of people have cancer, another area of the earth is uninhabitable for millennia, and we learn that the scientists were paid off.
Why would reconductoring require new towers? The new conductors aren't any heavier than the old ones, are they?
I agree on SMR. In Canada there are towns in the north running diesel generators 24/7 for power. SMR would be a game changer.
excellent video as always. one thing that occurs to me is that adding one or two mega packs(batteries) to substations would allow a much lower peak transmission to them.
That is exactly what NSW is doing with the Waratah Super Battery
Yes, and the name for this is storage as a transmission asset, SATA.
It is the worse possible idea because lithium is the worst possible energy storage system for grid sized applications.
When you look at one of those batteries imagine every one of those big white boxes as a sarcophagus with the bodies of the 3 natives who have already died to produce the materials inside or are terminally ill from the production of the material in them .
A beautifully presented and very encouraging summary. Incremental improvements like these are less dramatic than cutting edge inventions that you often cover, but absolutely essential.
Another very informative and encouraging video. I had no idea that reconductoring was even a thing or that several new types of conductors had been developed. Good news indeed.
In The Netherlands, it’s not only about transmission lines but also about transformer capacity. 🌷🤷♀️
Yeah, the Decepticons are always causing trouble.
Sure but getting an additional transformer does not seem so controversial
Same issue in the US. And the current lead time on transformers is 2 years.
@@mere_cat I wonder if the war in Ukraine is effecting that statistic. Not sure about the US, but in Europe they've already donated a lot of their spare transformers to keep the Ukrainian grid running.
@@Kevin_Street the war in Ukraine has had a massive effect on lead times but aid to Ukraine isn't the reason.
Sanctions on Russian steel have massively reduced raw material supply to transformer manufacturers. Combing that with massively increased demand for new large Power Transformers (>300% in many countries) has pushed leads times out by 4x.
Components which almost solely come from China have also added massive lead times, such as cooling fans. The end to the war/sanctions would have a large effect on leads times but the core issue is the massively increased demand for transformers due to connection of renewables and increased electrification of industry and transport
Shorting the Grid by Meredith Angwin is a short book length overview of the electric grid in the U. S. I highly recommend this insider’s perspective.
Brilliant as always thank you
really good material, I was not aware( and I am a retired electrical engineer)
This could possibly be the most important yet also underrated segment you have created.
In Québec, they've slowly been upgrading the network over the last 2 decades. More often than not, they tear down the entire line and start from scratch. What they've been doing is upgrading lines and substations from the old 200KV to 315 KV which is the more common voltage nowadays for the second layer of the transmission network. Most of the long range transmission is done using 735 KV lines. Increasing voltage reduces losses, but requires taller towers. Another big issue to consider is redundancy. In Québec, we learned that the hard way with the 1998 ice storm. One of the big changes has been to ensure that most substations can be powered by at least 2 separate circuits.
Québec has Hydro Québec, which is a 100% publicly-owned utility. (Contrast this with Ontario, which privatized parts of the system such as generation that earn money, but left parts such as transmission that cost money with taxpayers.) I understand some of the larger cities (Montreal, for example) have significant permitting challenges, but overall the permitting process is fairly streamlined compared to most of the rest of the continent.
@@jeffreyquinn3820 As far as permitting goes, there's nothing like a catastrophe to wake peoples up and get things moving. When an issue start to affect the comfort of peoples, things tend to move quickly. The 1998 ice storm played that role in Québec and it might very well be that the US needs its own wake up call to fix some of the issues it has.
@@jeffreyquinn3820 Transmission is always a monopoly. So it is better own by the public. At power generation real competion is possible.
@@orbiradio2465 Power generation is either a monopoly or oligopoly. Oligopolies seldom work out better than a regulated or state-owned monopoly, and are by definition not very competitive. So my ECON 101 textbook says.
Also in the UK swapping the lines out has been going on for several years.
The most important property of the high temperature low sag (HTLS) conductors, such as the ACCC type, is that their cores have a much lower coefficient of thermal expansion compared to the conventional galvanized steel core of the normal ACSR conductor. This means, that those HTLS conductors feature a knee point in their thermal expansion (which is the result of heating proportional to roughly i^2 (i=current)). This means, that, above a certain temperature (knee point) (depending also on the stringing tension), the sag(Temp) curve becomes flatter, when the aluminum becomes completely slack (no tension) and all the tensile load is transfered to the core (which has a low coefficient of thermal expansion). This allows to transmit more power per sqcm with these conductors (allowing a higher temperature than 80°C) without running into a insulation coordination issue.
"... Jeremy and Colin in the Finance Department ..." Made me LOL - Thanks, Dave. great analysis as always.
Pylons…. I’ve not previously heard them called that before. I’ve previously heard them referred to as “towers”. Interesting! I was listening to the video (rather than watching it) and was confused what was being referred to at first. :-)
I wrote a paper last year on electricity for a greener world, where I looked at future consumption needs, generation, and transmission. I think that reconductoring is going to be a wonderful addition to any business looking to increase capacity and lower costs using existing transmission network infrastructure. Obviously cabling in only one part of the network, but it is good step in the right direction, and should also help with budgets for replacing pole-mounted transformers, etc. Thanks for sharing.
A great overview! I volunteer with Citizens' Climate Lobby and we've been helping push for more electricity transmission across US regions, with things like the BIG WIRES act. Boosting transmission capacity with reconductoring as well as building new lines sounds like a great idea.
3:34 Energy Central CTC Global webinar bullet points. Cable types: ACSR ACCR ACFR AECC 4:52 ACCC: lighter weight but increased strength, capacity, reduced resistance line loss, and less sag at higher temps.👍
Excellent. Line losses total 15% of the electricity put on the grid, the vast majority ofs which is due to heat during peak load. 7.5% on the transmission grid. 7.5% on the distribution grid. Local generation takes energy off the transmission grid and thus saves 7.5% loss +/=. Direct current transmission also saves loss. Underground transmission loss is less than that on above-ground wires plus underground wires are subjected no wind or other weather stresses resulting in lower maintenance costs. Underground is more costly than above-ground but the savings in maintenance makes up the difference. And direct current is more efficient than alternating current transmission. Consider this, all the costs are heading down from generation to transmission to distribution. Will that result in lower electricity costs to the consumer? Only if we fight to have the savings passed on to us!
High voltage DC is only cost effective for long transmission lines (over 300 miles) due to the high cost of 'converting AC to DC' at the generating end and 'inverting DC to AC' at the receiving end of the transmission line. That said it would save a worthwhile amount of energy along with 'rewiring' the grid with lighter weight, higher ampacity cables.
Underground transmission loss is typically higher than aboveground from my recollection, due to the high capacitive coupling of the ground. So I ask, have you got a source, because I don't know that I trust a reversal of what I'm familiar with just on a TH-cam comment. I know some underground transmission has superconducting lines installed, but that's largely down to local constraints and is only done where absolutely necessary because the ongoing operational cost of the cryogenic coolant is non-zero.
@@NidkidfulI think I read about it in Utility Dive or David Roberts. Laying underground DC cable along the freeway grid addresses two thorny problems -- permitting and maintenance. I may be wrong, but I also think it was discussed at NREL. There may be a paper on it, or the 2018 study that was suppressed by the Trump administration may have talked about it. That study suggested a handful (4 or 6 West to East DC lines and 2 North to South).
@@NidkidfulAlso, I thought underground line loss was less than above ground. I'll look around -- google electricity line loss above and underground. Something like that. I was pretty deep into this stuff before my wife came down with cancer and died. Am getting back into it after my period of grieving.
@@bobbresnahan8397 potentially for HVDC, as it doesn't have capacitive losses, however it is quite hazardous to build HVDC underground, as it's much harder to build switchgear to open the circuit in sections should it be damaged, and the arcs are not self quenching, so any damage to the HVDC line would cause massive damage. It's also way more expensive because of the specialized equipment needed. HVDC only makes sense right now for long distance transmission, and while underground puts it in a more stable thermal environment, I don't know that combining two niche expensive applications is a viable cross country link.
Thumbs up. The revisiting and new stuff combination is really good
I worked a couple of years in the energy industry and grid operators hate maintenance more than they hate anything else. I have seen producers urging them to upgrade their grid only to hear BS like "we are working on a project so we dont have money for anything else".
not all of them of course but even those that do try to keep up have to do deal with unreasonable producers that want their part of the grid to upgraded first while "smaller" ones "can wait" even tho those "smaller" ones would be much more urgent/effective for the grid as a whole... its a mess on both sides of the issue.
Nice explanation indeed
In Australia I think we could see gains from a much more distributed grid, this is becoming the case with generation as a result of renewables and rooftop solar, but distributed storage is lagging, instead we are focusing on large scale projects such as snowy 2.0 and Tasmania battery of the nation. Distributed local storage would stop us sending power 1000s of km, saving transmission losses but making the existing network go much further. There's no lack of prospective pumped hydro sites.
Distributed local storage would stop us sending power 1000s of km. Well said, the beauty of electricity is it is everywhere to be harvested.
4:00 "...as those of us of certain age know only too well."
OMG I didn't expect this.
Thanks!
Thanks for your support. Much appreciated!
I think this is promising info. But I think the paradigm shift will only be when we start to focus on on-site power generation and storage, with the grid mostly there to fill in the gaps. Why the heck are factories and offices that mostly operate when the sun is shining not covered in solar, as an example of what I mean?! We wouldn’t need such a robust grid if we decentralized more of our power generation down to the neighbourhoods it’s used in.
decentralized more of our power generation,its the key.
Don't forget to say that the electricity demand in the UK has dropped by 20% over the last 10 years. Interesting to hear that the US has the same bureaucratic issues with grid connection that we have.
Thanks to the EU energy efficiency regulations
@@adblocker276True, in EU countries, a lot of effort has gone into reducing energy use without lowering quality of living.
Over the last two decades, we've managed to cut our electric use by about half what it was 20 years ago, even thought we have more tech devices and computers around the home, and there are still many improvements that can be done.
It also looks like since the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, there's another big push to reduce energy consumption whiles at the same time boost renewable energy generation, the two together makes it much easier to do the transition.
But with all that said, there's likely going to be more demand on the electric grid because of EV cars and heat pump, which is pushing all our energy needs to electric, which is fine by me because it's a lot more flexible in how it can be used and we can also generate it with renewable energy.
Thanks to EU regulations, it's putting constant pressure on all companies to find ways of reducing the energy a product needs.
@@adblocker276actually I'm guessing it's more related to economic decline. Power demand is linked to how many factories and businesses are running.
UK doesn't manufacture anything anymore. And it drops more industries every year.
Yep, computers, lighting, TVs and standby consumption all improved dramatically in consumption terms. And a lot of relatively high power gadgets like Hi-fi systems and VCRs and radio-alarm-clocks have just disappeared over the last 30 years and been replaced by much lower-power kit (e.g. mobile phone+bluetooth speaker). There are more other gadgets (routers, voice assisstants, smart doorbells/thermostats/hot water tanks) but most of those are low power. Ultimately it's the LEDs that are responsible for most of the reduction.
Oh, all this sounds great, thanks for your videos!
In many cases an existing right of way can be upgraded with dual, triple, or more conductors in a bundle. This should work well if the voltage is not also ungraded (which would require new pylons.)
watching this, I realized that the grid or its cables may not be needed to replaced or upgraded for the EV future since you power companies can simply double or multiply the voltage depending on the capacity need. I don't know how much HV transformers or HVDC equipment costs but i think it is doable for not much more money and time.
The problem is more the lead time to get more HV transformer equipment. We're talking months or years lead time for conventional replacements, while big projects like changing the voltage on a major grid provider is a decade long process as a large number of isolators, switchgear, and all the transformers need replaced, and that stuff isn't built in the quantity required to do a fast changeover, as the typical lifespan is 20-60+ years, and any additional production would have until recently been wasted or idle.
@@Nidkidful good point. I guess it's a chicken and egg problem. While there are more EVs vs previous years, grid power requirements did not increased or have reduced due to multiple reasons. There is no reason to increase transformer production. But then, if transformer availability remain a problem or gets worse, companies would have no choice but generate own power and use solar PV equipment for EV charging.
It would be interesting to combine this reconductoring with your previous video on increasing transmission voltage to improve efficiency further.
Further efficiencies could be gained by increasing voltage supply into the home along with high power factor step-down conversion coupled with maybe 12V lighting circuits in the home.
Re-conductoring is a no-brainer. What people don’t realize is the grid can handle more load. All conductors are sized for peak load which happens twice a day. How much power do you think is running through those lines at 2 AM? taking a first principle approach with energy storage means that localized batteries eliminate any grid upgrade requirement. Now of course you still need to plug in the windmills and solar panels into the grid but if you take a ridiculous example of scale and put a sea can of batteries in everybody’s backyard then we could probably power the world with extension cords! 😊 now adjust this scale to reality and we have decentralized energy storage and most importantly the elimination of curtailment which is the ultimate waste.
Slightly off topic but demand response will be more important in the next 20 years for the success of green energy than batteries will be.
copy/paste from my stand alone comment
as you say, at 2am a mega-dollar grid is operating at a fraction of capacity. the entire investment is sized for peak demand yet most of the time less than half of peak is needed. an answer is in consumer peak leveling. which also offers consumers a choice of price for power. it works like this; every half hour the retail price of electricity changes, prices are digitally signaled in real time and forecast for 24 hours. so consumer devices can be tuned to low price points for heated water storage, battery charging, clothes drying and refrigeration etc (including cold storage to augment air conditioning at peak), leaving only essential and low-wattage, lighting etc devices when rates are high. a simple utility algorithm can easily set rates to deliver an almost flat grid demand over every 24 hours, thereby saving the difference between flat average and peak grid capacity investment.
@@GaryGraham-sx4pm It doesnt even need to be a flat demand. Just knock off 10% from peak to that midnight to 5AM period is all thats needed.
Yep, we really want a system of storage buffers at the source and load, with the transmission system between running at close to full capacity at all times. The cost of the storage systems payed back in efficient utilization of the transmission system.
Decentralized creation and energy storage the key here...
Takk!
Thanks for your support. Much appreciated
This is a really superb presentation of information of which I had no knowledge. It makes me feel really good about the future of our energy grid. People like to act like we don't have the capacity. Doom and gloom!
On the other hand, if usage is not increasing, revenue is not increasing so the incentive to improve the system is lacking.
that usage buffer could serve us well for a rapid ev transition regardless
Another technology contribution to a better world. Not a game changer, but a welcome improvement. Presumably these cables are just as usable with higher voltage, and with DC lines... caveat replacing insulators and transformers cost requirements.
Fascinating, thanks, something I’d never thought of. 👍
Thank you for a useful update on better wires available. One recent event in Australia adds another issue - storms causing the support structures to fail. Apparently the older structures are getting old and were rated for lower wind velocities. We are now getting stronger winds in unexpected places at a higher frequency. This is not to stop rewiring as you suggest but does add to the size of our backlog. Infrastructure has been neglected for way too long and more rear end bites are coming. Let's be optimistic and see this as job security for those involved.
Always love your videos, Dave! 🎉😊
I wonder if the demand drop (here in the US) is due to roof top solar. I know I pull a lot less off the grid, and the electricity I use off the panels does not go through the metering system.
Imagine if large factories with flat roofs had solar...
One other benefit of replacing the wires is that the old cable can be recycled into the new cables.
There by saving some mining and electricity in the production of new aluminium.
Great channel.
True, but it doesn't sound like this carries forward: the new glass and composite strands sound as recyclable as windmill blades, which aren't.
Dave, thanks making this video about reconductoring that I asked for in the comments last week. I doubt you read my comment, but now I can refer people to your video for an excellent, concise explanation of reconductoring.
1:44 "taking the electrons from where they’re generated to where they’re needed. " - ok, I'll be _that_ guy: the electrons are not going far at all. They are travelling just a tiny distance relative to the grid (or even your home.) It's the *energy* that is travelling, through the electric field. In an AC line the electrons are just sloshing back and forth.
They literally move less than a millimeter in distance.
I remember reading a paper in the late 90's about findings from California and alternative power.bone key finding was 100MW power stations ie solar wind etc was around the right size to reduce transmission loss whilst affordable to build/profitable.
Logically that principle makes sense, multiple generation sites close to citoes towns villages etc means less transmission loss.
It is interesting that you and a very few others provide such information. You answered so many seemingly silly questions I've been asking for years. Then, as I ask such questions, you are the first to answer while not telling me I just give them a headache.
This sounds great. However, here in Texas, ERCOT is garbage. They wouldn't even do this if it only cost them one more dollar. Not one dollar per mile, mind you, but one dollar.
Privatized power grids are stupid.
I live in Texas
The Texas New Mexico Power company just replaced miles of regular poles and lines in my area.
In addition to burying a significant portion that crosses a flood plain.
The last is a new state requirement.
Yep, they want grift not customer service. They won't even connect to the national grids for back-up power for their customers.
GOP, pennypinching mentality.
As far as Texas is concerned, it is in a state all its own. We don't want anyone stealing our power.
I love the elegance of this. There's also the ability to recycle all of that aluminum and steel from the old lines - 2 of the most recyclable existing materials. Thanks Dave! I know it's hard to find good news about the energy transition, but your stats throughout are very inspiring.
I totally agree. The electric Spanish grid is a really catastrophic mess. Where I live the grid that feeds our town is older than 60 years and the maintenance is near to 0 and the design is completely out of date. Now we already have problems with the solar power houses connected to the grid and provokes high voltage and can damage our electric devices.
The main problem in Spain is the former presidents and ministers end up working in energetic companies in order to earn 300.000€ per year doing nothing only "for the services provided"
Dave, I attended Everything Electric Show on the Friday, really enjoyed your talk panela, you have a new subscriber.
Thanks for the great video! I am an electrical engineer from Germany and although not working at a DSO anymore, I was wondering why this is not covered in any scientific discussion I attended. So I did a little research:
1. According to a paper from the federal department of economic and climate affairs from 2014, 30-50% of the costs for building a new power line come from the cables itself.
2. The ACCC type seems to be 7-10 times more expensive than the ACSR type.
Therefore changing the cables of an existing power line would me more expensive than building another power line with the same capacity. As I said this is based on some superficial research, so I would be happy to hear your opinion on this!
New utilities that want to tie to the grid go thru a 3 to 10 year approval process where national grid managers decide how best to tie them into the existing infrastructure.
If the local infrastructure needs to be upgraded to support that new utility, the cost of upgrading is mostly to entirely on the new utility. Even if the lines they are upgrading are owned by a different private utility. To the existing line owner gets a cheap or free upgrade not their infrastructure and all or most of the cost goes on the new utility.
I worked on a solar project that was 2 years behind schedule, which means they weren't generating any power to help pay back the loan used to build the farm. That will slow their future growth and add to their debt burden in the long run.
I wonder how many projects are never followed thru with because of the slow pace of bureaucracy and the current cost structure for new power generation projects.
What an excellent presentation! Doubling the existing transmission capacity through "reconductering" old transmission lines definitely comes into the "no-brainer" category of worthwhile investments for the future! The kickback from those who are resistant to the EV transition is full of negativity about grid capacity. As with the USA figures I understand that the electricity usage in the UK continues to fall despite increases in EVs. The highest level was around 2005 and it has dropped considerably since then ... allowing us to dispense with almost all of our coal generation ... more good news. Doing the numbers if every single car in the UK was to overnight become an EV (clearly not going to happen) the level of generation capacity that we had in 2005 would be sufficient to cope! (That's just using oversimplified arithmetic and the true picture may well be different but it does put things into perspective.) We need to shift from assuming this transition can't happen to getting on with it!
@DaveBorlace
As usual, another excellent and informative episode.
There's also another mechanism available for increasing grid capacity, and that would be to improve its capacity factor. I don't know about the US, but the UK grid peak capacity is around double the average.
Figures for peak grid capacity and difficult to find, but it has to equal or exceed peak demand which in the UK reached about 61GW (if I recall correctly but it might be a bit higher) a decade or so ago. The average demand is currently about 35GW, which means that if we could level out demand we could squeeze an extra 25 GW through the grid without overloading it.
The key to utilising this spare capacity is a combination of demand side response/levelling and distributed storage, in particular viable long duration storage that would allow excess supply in the summer to be transferred to where it will be required in the winter, using spare off peak capacity.
Yeah, making every part of the system more efficient is going to help us all in the long-run for sure.
Great points, AND could be even better using superconductors or ultraconductors... however, the best is transporting energy using ET3 (Evacuated Tube Transport Technologies)(tm). ET3 also has the benefits of energy storage (linear flywheel mode), and transport of passengers and cargo (including LNG, H2, oil, etc.) - all in one infrastructure. Verses off-shore wind, the same amount of capital invested into ET3 would SAVE three times more electric energy than the wind turbines could produce in their lifetime. ET3 can acomplish 50X more passenger-km of transportation per kWh than electric cars or trains...
ET3 is able to transport electric energy kenetically. A linear electric motor/generator (LEM/LEG) accelerates (and/or regeneratively decelerates) loaded capsules at speeds to 6500km/h where the kinetic energy per 550kg capsule is 250kWh. The safe capacity (1/3 theoretical capacity) is 120 capsules per second. The trip (across the Bering Strait) from the high-noon side of the world to the midnight side is 2 to 3 hours.
The electrical energy efficiency of ET3 is approximately equal to the efficiency of the LEM/LEG - or up to 96% using copper windings -OR- over 99% using superconducting windings.
Thanks for a very clear presentation. As an electrical engineer I liked it.
Always a well presented video, on something new to me .
Excellent content as always! We're off to 'Everything electric' today here in the UK! Really looking forward to being inspired!
One of the best video’s definitely a no brainer for larger grids.
This is good news! 😊Have fun in London!!
Dropping dad jokes nonchalantly like a boss! XD
Thanks for the new video! One thing that makes this a particularly cheerful story is that it's an innovation that's already happening. ACCC conductors are already being installed as part of the regular upgrade cycle for power lines. (Although I guess a political push will be needed to get electrical companies moving in places where they never do upgrades or maintenance.) Much to my surprise it seems one of our provincial power companies (Enmax) has already installed an ACCC line, and we're not exactly on the bleeding edge of technology here.
Another method of increasing the power carried by high tension lines is bundling. Two, three or four cables are used to carry a single phase and bundled wires can carry more voltage with less losses. The resistance of a line and hence the energy wastage is proportional to the amperage and the higher the voltage, the lower the amperage can be to carry the same power.
I know I have said it before but thank you for having real subtitles! I really appreciate it!
Thumbs up for Jeremy and Colin!
Reconductoring is a great idea, and, as your chart shows, these conductor upgrades have been going on for quite some time. I was involved in a similar project to these ten years ago (the conductor we installed still had the steel core, but was otherwise the same). Having said that, they will have very little impact on the major problem of relying on electrons generated far away from where they are used. This is a huge problem, and one that is not appreciated in the environmental community. By all means, let's reconductor, but let us also develop technologies that can be located closer to the end user. Geothermal, and if need be nuclear (😮).
Solar and wind assets tend to be located far from where the electricity is needed. Since both are intermittent, and there is a three hour shift in peak load from the east side of the continent to the west, long distance transmission lines are quite valuable. Enhanced Geothermal is a promising new generation method, although there are issues with induced seismicity. All I can say about nuclear is good luck paying for it and good luck getting people to let you build it near them. What exactly is the environmental disaster of transmission lines, particularly compared to the environmental disaster of climate change, which affects the entire planet?
@incognitotorpedo42 The problem with transmission lines is getting them built. It isn't just private landowners that are the problem either. We have few habitats that are reserved for threatened wildlife, resulting in our fellow environmentalists putting up some of the stiffest resistance to transmission projects. Depending on generation that is concentrated in a few far away regions comes with a host of problems that should be avoided if at all possible. Anyone in the industry can tell you that powerlines tend to have unavoidable pinch points. If these pinch points are damaged by storms, terrorism, or some other failure, large areas of the grid can be effected for extended periods of time. The fewer the sources of generation, and the longer the transmission miles, the worse this problem becomes. An additional problem for Europe is that many of these sources are beyond the control of local governments. We only have to look at recent events to see how bad an idea that is. As far as nuclear being built, many countries are reevaluating their position on nuclear, with many communities being in favor. I think many countries are realizing that for their area, wind and solar is a square peg trying to be shoved into a round hole.
Before anyone responds with how cheap solar and wind are to install. Consider, those instalation cost don't include the battery storage, the 30% increase in transmission miles (for the US), or the capacity factor for wind and solar. Wind has a capacity factor of about 25. Meaning, the facility reaches 25% of its rated capacity on an annualized basis. Solar can be much worse, with a capacity factor of 10-25 depending on location. This is such an accepted fact that industry planners routinely recommend over building the facilities being planned by a factor of 4 to account for these low capacity factor numbers. In addition, they incorporate a gas-powered peaker plant as part of the project to address the same problem. A lot of work, and we're just spinning our wheels.
With recent developments, my first choice, by far, is geothermal (some of the new designs should minimize the earthquake problem). For many regions of the world, my second choice is nuclear, and many governments are agreeing with me.
Yet again an excellent piece. Thanks.
A simple thank you, simply put, for your being a simply wonderful human being.
Thank you.
This seems particularly important here in Oregon in the USA. We have had several seasons of terrible fires and many have been caused by power company equipment failure, usually lines coming down in wind storms. The cost of the fines are most likely going to be passed on to consumers. It would be in all of our best interests to have improved lines. And, you are quite correct about the difficulties in permitting.
In UK we had a transition through ACSR to ACAR to AAAC or Aluminon Conductor Alloy reinforced to All Aluminium Alloy Conductor
Quality. Simple, clear. Keep it up
The existing electrical grid is a dinosaur. We need graphene conductors located in a underground type electrical grid. We lose 5-8% of all the electricity being generated with our existing electrical grid. A great video!
Yes, and underground requires HVDC to prevent capacitive losses, with added benefits of higher power transmission with the same cables, no need for reinforcement, the possibility of liquid cooling, but requires expensive high voltage AC DC conversion stations which become economical beyond 40 miles of transmission.
Thanks for covering the power grid....where and how our power comes from matters as much as any other issue in this technological space.
Fantastic video, Thankyou. Very informative and positive news.
*What about boosting the wattage by increasing the voltage?* Even with the existing cables, that will transmit more power, though the transformers and insulators also have to be upgraded. *What about the High Voltage Direct Current (HVDC) upgrade?* HVDC has lower line losses, removes phase matching issues from the long lines, works at higher voltage (enabling greater transmission distances) even with the existing insulators, and requires fewer conductors, only 2 instead of 3. Since most HV towers already carry 6 lines of 3-phase power, switching that over to HVDC means an additional capacity upgrade of 50% as 2 circuits get replaced by 3 circuits.
Tesla using 48V up from 12V for the low voltage now to achieve this for instance. Saves alot of copper and weight...
Indeed, but it will also mean DC-to-DC converters are needed for any old school 12 volts accessories. For high power audio amplifiers, 48 volts will be very nice! @@jaaklucas1329
If sagging has been reduced they could fit longer insulators and increase the operating voltage of the grid, thus getting more power through for a given current.
Awsome as always, thank you.
How encouraging!
In December 2021, FERC issued Order No. 881, which focused on improving the planning and operation of the bulk power system. This order included provisions that could indirectly support DLR (Dynamic Load Rating) by encouraging the use of advanced tools and technologies for grid management, which could encompass DLR. It is not yet widely used in the US but In October 2022, PJM implemented a DLR system for three transmission lines in northeastern Pennsylvania.
I have for a long time been an advocate of local, modular systems which includes power generation. Far more resilient and expandable.
Im an EE for a utility in Michigan at the distribution level. Reconductoring makes sense, its something we do on a regular basis. However our warehouse inventories are updated so infrequently I doubt we'll see any new adanced conductors for over a decade. There is also the issue of importing the conductors electrical and mechanical characteristics into the modeling software which would take alot of time and resources. Still its exciting to know that perhaps someday something new will become available, especially given the upcoming demand on the distribution system from distributed generation renewables.
Great video! Sorry I was not able to watch any of your talks at fully charged. I really hope they will be put on youtube to watch later.
What about using really high voltage DC lines in stead of AC that is also a major solution in conducting more power
I forget what it is but there has to be a certain distance and amount of power being transmitted before the economics of the higher cost infrastructure outweighs the loss of energy due to resistance.
@@thatfatman6978 There are also useful for tying together different grids which may be out of phase.
the terminal equipment for HVDC is very expensive but works for long distances and high MW capacity.
I think there are 3 possibilities to resolve the problems of the grid(s)
1. Redesign and reimplement the grid whilst using it. This is supported by your presentation herein. It's a pretty good solution to address capacity but not much else (still mega important)
2. Build a new grid in parallel and eventually retire the old one. Your presentation herein might actually present some good options for this too, at least in part.
3. Drastically reduce transmission through local generation. Require every house / building / business to have plated generation capacity > 120% of their daily usage including stationary storage for say 50% and use the grid for emergency backup and equalisation only. (My preference).
Sitting with most stuff on in the house now (including this computer) cosuming less than 300W. I remember in the 1970s, all of us in the front room watching one telly and having the lights on would be around a KiloWatt. Tellies, lights & fridges consumed staggering ammounts then.
0:53 two of the "three main US grid networks" include parts of Canada; so it would be better to refer to them as "the there main North American grid networks", and better still to show a map that includes the significant parts of Canada that are included
North American? That would imply that it covered all of Canada and Mexico too.
If he's talking about US consumption data, the 3 main grids that serve the US are relevant. If they also serve other territories, that's not relevant to this specific talking point. There's no need to get hung up on how he refers to them. Also, more shocking in this segment is the visual callout that Texas is just doing its own insane thing down there (which we have seen the consequences of in recent years).
Great episode.. here in Oz, we have so much trouble with new lines
Along with this I do wonder if some of the current transmission lines could be modified to operate at higher voltages. This would require new transformers etc and also depend on insulation and wire separation.
Even more complicated but also interesting is the conversion of some of these to high voltage DC lines (HVDC). Much more expensive but lots of benefits.
Another thing keeping utilities from doing the small things that add up is that they are incentivized in the rate setting process to build new things like gas-fired plants and new transmission lines. Retrofitting conductors and adding the "magic balls" sensors referenced in another comment don't let them go to the local PUC and get a rate increase. I used to be involved in negotiating power costs for my plant that drew about 50MW on average. One thing I learned is that you can never win with them. They have too many legislators duped at best or bought off at worst to ever lose.
Here in Australia, we have an argument running about whether to introduce Nuclear. One side of politics is "against" it, the other wants all barriers removed and nuclear allowed into the mix.
One thing I keep saying in support of a renewable power solution for Australia, is that technology will KEEP IMPROVING. Solar will get better, turbines will get better, batteries will get better. Like "Moores Law".
Renewables have an inbuilt advantage in that it is easier to include new technology as it enters the market - it's an inherent fact that things are constantly being replaced, so they will get replaced with new, better components. Unlike, say, a Nuclear Power Plant.
We have a parallel argument, or problem, regarding transmission - much money required to adapt the transmission network, and farmers and local communities opposed to grids being built across private, arable land. So the news coming out about higher efficiency cable is most welcome.
But expected and predictable - components will get better and better.
Nuclear takes forever to build, and is incredibly expensive (especially once decommissioning costs are factored in.
@@simhedgesrex7097Do you ever see the decommissioning costs of solar, wind and battery storage included in renewable figures? They have nasty chemicals in them that need to be handled properly or will cause environmental damage.
@@geoffsmith82 I would have thought that the decommissioning problems and costs of renewables are similar to the problems and costs of all sorts of products - televisions, for instance, or cars - whereas nuclear is a whole different ballgame.
Can't dump a nuclear reactor at the council tip, can you?
Batteries are always recycled. Solar panels have aluminium frames and glass and metal components, and can be recycled.
According to the clean energy council, more than 85% of a wind turbine can be recycled, by mass - mostly steel, aluminium, copper and cast iron.
@@geoffsmith82 Well, many of them can already can be recycled (not much recycling possible with radioactive materials from Nuclear power stations), and decommissioned at vastly lower costs than for Nuclear. The UKs Nuclear Decomissioning Authority estimates the cost of nuclear decommissioning in the UK to be £149 billion. People don't talk about decommissioning costs so much for renewables for the same reason they don't talk about them very much for coal power stations, or gas ones: they exist, but they are reasonable.
I like the idea of SMRs
Thank you Dave for your balanced but positive approach to give us hope how science can give us the solutions, now as engineers we have to turn it into the solutions for the future. Keep up the great work Paul
This is good news -- actually the information about the lack of any recent increase in electricity demand may have been the most interesting. Conservation is always the cheapest and quickest way to make things better.
When I clicked on this I thought you might be talking about micro-grids. Besides the overall consumption problem you address here, there is also the eventual problem of solar storms knocking out the grid. It would make a lot of sense to redesign our entire system so that more power is generated closer to where it is consumed. If we could also harden the system against solar storms (and the like) that would be even better. Energy conservation would need to be a part of this plan. Every area should compare the cost to reduce energy usage through conservation to the cost of local generation to the cost of bringing in more power from outside the area.
It may well turn out that we won't need as much additional power as people think.
Thanks to Robert Llewellyn, I made a presentation about the electrical needs of the petroleum industry. It's massive, probably 2/3 of all electricity, energy and infrastructure.
By transitioning from fracking and tarsanding, we wouldn't need to replace todays levels.
Every EV built (buses, trucks, farm and construction equipment as well as cars) is a storage device, which could save money and make the grid more efficient.
The problem is that a bankster won't look at that as saving money, he would look at it as costing them money. That's the biggest problem.