We Need To Talk About Pretty Privilege
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2023
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In today's video, Chelsea dives deeply into the shallow reality of "pretty privilege," and how it pays - and how it doesn't pay - to be considered attractive in our society.
Source links:
www.tiktok.com/@faganchelsea/...
nypost.com/2022/01/05/attract...
www.vice.com/en/article/epz8p...
qz.com/1720278/why-are-tall-p...
economictimes.indiatimes.com/...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
www.spring.org.uk/2022/07/dis...
www.bbc.com/future/article/20...
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I think a major reason we don't talk about pretty privilege the way we do other kinds of privilege is because we're uncomfortable with people calling themselves unattractive. You can easily say you aren't a man or aren't white or aren't straight and no one is going to argue the point, but if you say you're unattractive you're most likely going to get a lecture on not talking badly about yourself.
Or just opening yourself up for a litany of things that "you should do" to be more attractive, because if you're unattractive - "it's really all your fault". If you just went to the gym more, ate better, got more sleep, drank more water, stopped drinking, got a better haircut, etc etc etc
@@dwaynewindham2937 this is also true and incredibly frustrating
@@dwaynewindham2937 "Just don't live past 40" oops I fucked that one up
Isn't it a worse faux pas to tell people you're hot and you know it?
@aussiejubes With that, we may judge the pretty person's personality, but it doesn't always change how their treated (think pretty a-holes who still get free stuff).
When you're unattractive, you can be gaslit by those who like you, while nothing else changes.
A lot of attractive people I know, just learned not to say it out loud unless feeling safe to do so
My gosh is this video legit. I used to weigh 330lbs and was overweight for a long time: I was brutally harassed and treated terribly, did horribly in job interviews despite being a hard worker and well qualified. I’ve lost 185lbs since high school and it’s like I am living in a completely different world. Pretty privilege is absolutely real and I’ve seen both sides.
Same here! I also always think about this when people joke about being able to tell when someone was a fat kid because they have a great personality. It's funny because it's definitely somewhat true, but it also bums me out that even as kids we had to compensate/apologize for what we looked like by how we behaved. We were sort of playing on hard mode even then.
the fat kid to hot adult pipeline is almost criminal….you see how shallow everyone is honestly 🤷🏾♀️ i do enjoy not being made fun of for my weight and better treatment when being out. im the same person though 😤
eh, I'm 150lbs/healthy and fit, yet still plain/not hot from a low--income background, which means I'm still underemployed and no-one wants to hire me🤷weight/size makes a difference, but it's not the full picture--this society wants you to have perfect skin and teeth and hair and style and parents too.
@@pendafen7405 it’s more about the treatment not the opportunities.
A friend of mine who also went through weight fluctuation once said a similar thing: when you're fat, people just allow themselves to be a jerk to you for absolutely no reason, as if they see you less worthy of respect
I worked with an ‘ugly’ female coworker who was consistently undervalued and disrespected by just about everyone on staff. She was treated horribly.
Did you stand up to them on her behalf? Or report it to management/HR? Or if nothing else, even gently take her aside one day and ask if she was ok or needed/wanted you to do something to help?
@@pendafen7405 she's was ugly, not a child. Ugly people can defend themselves.
@@lorenzomizushal3980 helping someone out who's being treated poorly by others for no good reason is not infantilising, it's just basic human compassion. Depressing that I'm having to explain that to someone. That's hypercapitalistic atomisation, I guess.
@@pendafen7405 where's the compassion in helping her? Instead of allowing her the chance to grow and learn from her situation you rob her of the opportunity to do this by herself, like a child you're infantalising her. Unless she's facing some life threatening situation or physical abuse beyond her ability to escape, you're just robbing her of the chance to be a stronger person.
@@lorenzomizushal3980 I'm not wasting time arguing with someone who can't see any merit in speaking out against bullying or abuse. Hopefully you never have a partner of any description in your life because they evidently shall not able to rely on your support in times of beleaguerment.
I used to think pretty privilege was a myth, until i noticed the stark difference between how people at work treat me on days i do my hair and makeup and wear contacts rather than just rolling out of bed smoothing my hair and putting on some tinted lip balm 🙄
Ah yes, the dreaded “are you feeling ok today?” lol
Pretty privilege only ever exists with people who never bothered or wanted to know you as a person to begin with. The workplace is a status driven game for most people so it doesn't surprise me that people are likely to treat you better if you look more presentable. It's more about how they want to be viewed by association themselves to others than how they view you. If you put on more makeup or put more time into your looks, people will naturally associate that you have the "money" or "wealth" to do these things and live better, whether or not that is actually true.
I noticed when I went to Sephora or Ulta with unwashed hair and no makeup vs when I went after a lunch with friends where I did it up a little more. But tbh I like not being perceived when shopping so sometimes I purposefully go to makeup stores without makeup so I also don't get upsold lol
Do contacts vs. glasses really make a difference? Genuinely curious, as I find a lot of women in glasses quite attractive, and sometimes glasses even _add_ a certain _je ne sais quoi._
Certainly I believe you about hair and makeup, but the contacts part seems less intuitive. Is it generally women's experience that the _average_ person finds them more attractive without glasses? [I accept that I may just not be the average person in this regard.]
@@ps.2 Absolutely! I have naturally curly hair and wear glasses, every time I straighten my hair or don't wear my glasses I get many comments about how my hair looks so much better straight or outright comments that I look so much better without glasses. I'm not sure if others have had this experience, but it's certainly noticeable on my end
I've never had pretty privilege, but I've had sweet & trustworthy face privilege most of my life. No one ever suspected me of any wrongdoing growing up and as an adult, strangers will ask me to watch their valuables or even their child for a minute while they step away. I wouldn't ever steal or do anything wrong, but oh boy have I had the opportunity!
I wish I had the same. Women of all races grab their purses when I walk by and about 80% of my friends and family keep their valuables away from me. I don’t steal. Never have. I make more money than 90% of my friends and family but due to my dark skin and the media, people see me as a thief….I am only 5 ft. tall but I feel like a 6 ft. prisoner wearing a striped jumpsuit when I am out in public. This definitely makes me shy away from social situations or have to prove that I am harmless which gets exhausting. 😩
@@SimplisticallyDigital That's really awful! I am so sorry you're treated that way!
@@Letty4 Thank you 🙏🏿
It is truly sad but I have no other choice but to keep moving!
I like the way you stated that, I think that's the version of privilege I most likely have. Ive got a "cute" babyface and people are generally nice to me and think I'm kind without any preamble or proof. I am but the assumption always makes me chuckle, like I could be a rip roaring bit*h, you don't know me! Lol..... I mean I'll take it but it's funny to reflect on. The one thing I didn't like was the professional impact, it wasn't until my late 30s people stopped assuming I was the intern/junior team member. It's difficult to project a seniority vibe with this kind of face.
@@allysonbergman1303 same, I relate. All the time I get people coming up to me asking for advice, or help, or directions etc.. It's weird because if you know me, I'm quite a guarded and sometimes critical person who doesn't have many friends, but because I have a pleasant approachable (not hot, sadly) face, everyone thinks I have this sweet open loving soul that I really don't. And yeah, I feel you on the estimation part too--in my 30s but strangers still ask me what school I'm at or what I'm studying for my degree/internship. Idk if it's a privilege or not, I guess it is in some ways but not in others. No-one really takes me seriously or talks to me like an adult or someone to respect/fear. However, people seem to trust me despite having no evidence that they should (maybe we should look into c0n artistry?😁)
My theory has been that "Karens" are created when the bubble fades/pops. They're used to people giving them special treatment that they don't realize is special, and then begin to throw tantrums when the social treatment they've received for the past 35 years goes away. It's literally all they knew, so now they're almost traumatized by their own entitlement. The way we treat a pretty twenty-something versus an "ugly" fifty-something is night and day. I honestly don't give any different treatment to a fifty-something woman than I would any man, until they start acting like a Karen that is, but to them, that might as well be giving them negative treatment.
That's what I have always said! Did you ever notice that most of them are big breasted but now middle aged and over weight?
OMG the Karen origin story exposed!! That's why they're all white middle aged women! 🤯Kinda also explains why some white people think they're not being oppressed when they're unfair advantage/privilege is leveling out!
WHOA. I think you’ve cracked the case on this one…
I don’t think this is true at all.
When women are younger they tend to take things as they are; if the waiter brings you the wrong order you don’t want to say anything and if you do you don’t argue with them if they say they didn’t, if someone takes your parking space you huff and puff but don’t actually do anything. Even the most assertive young women try to make themselves less of a burden to others.
But as women get older they loosen up on the “I don’t want to upset anyone” thing and start speaking up for themselves. So if something happens that they don’t like, they say something.
Even men are like this too. As you get older you learn to start demanding what you want from the world, whether you’re in the right or wrong.
I think there’s something to your theory but a lot of it is based in the idea that women lose “value”, something we know doesn’t actually happen (at least not any more) seeing as how things like corn sites, tinder and other dating sites have shown us that younger men are REALLY into older women and old women too (I’m talking grannies. Yes it’s very weird)
So the older women get they may lose value among the men of their age but gain value to younger men (a privilege older women don’t act on due to societies vitriol towards older women-younger man relationships. Many older women don’t even know they have this privilege due to societal conditioning)
That's a really interesting take, definitely a solid hypothesis. Now I'm wondering how to test that hypothesis but I don't think that I could handle doing research in close proximity to a bunch of Karens!
The statistic that blew my mind was that conventionally attractive people get lighter prison sentences even if the crime involved murder. They get more sympathy/empathy from the jury
That's why this and others videos ideas of having a "discourse" full of opinions and anecdotes causes me to eyeroll. We have a whole field of legit, peer-reviewed research on the power of attractiveness. Are there any downsides? Sure, but they're outweighed by benefits at a ratio of like 1000 to 1. It's insulting to suggest otherwise.
As for the justice system, the only crimes where being good looking hurts you with a jury are those involving trickery or deceit, where you are seen as having used your hotness to get people to believe you.
I agree 100%. Is beauty a double-edged sword? Yes, especially for women. Is it overall, for most, a net benefit? Also YES. To say otherwise is disingenuous. All you have to do is ask if someone would really change places to the other end of the spectrum.
@@ifetayodavidson-cade5613 Especially if you're clear that by "other end of the spectrum" you _really mean_ that, not just "would you want to be TV-ugly," which actually means a 6 or 7.
@@ifetayodavidson-cade5613 I would rather be in the middle of the spectrum (where I actually am anyway) than on either extreme. Especially if you're a woman, if you're pretty, people don't see past that. They give you attention, but you're not truly respected.
yes, and whatever clothes you wear they still can't see past that. It's like people make you feel like you might as well use your charms seeing no one cares about anything else anyway. @@rebeccahicks2392 And then we'll get shit for it lol.
I am not a "conventionally attractive" person, however I can say that when I was in my early 20's I experienced this. I remember letting my emissions test lapse and I had hundreds of fines. When I finally saved the money to cover everything, I went in and the guy said "Aww you're pretty and I'm sure you didn't mean to let this go. I'll waive all the fees." I would get free cab rides, discounts on items at stores, etc. Flip side I see the difference as I'm now older and gained weight.
I know EXACTLY what you're talking about! In my early 20s, I could show up ANYWHERE and get free drinks and places to stay and dinners and discounts. Now that I'm older and less conventionally attractive, I have to rely on my own initiative and finances. I really love how independent and capable I've become, and I don't necessarily miss the anxiety that losing that "pretty privilege" entailed. I'm much better off now. 😅
I came here to say this. I was pretty in my 20's and while I don't think I'm ugly now, I am definitely not a size 6 anymore and age has taken its toll on my skin as well.
@@mallisaunders4565 I hear ya! Same here. 😅 Things definitely change!
Yeah same I remember getting compliments everywhere, random men hitting on me in my teens and early 20s… slowly fading away and it’s weird but kind of relief cause I used to be self conscious. I guess beauty is really wasted on the youth
Just so you know, you’re absolutely gorgeous & any extra weight is not gonna take that away from you! ❤
Since beauty is so youth oriented, and it is linked to our literal worth as human beings, it’s become a modern day experience for us all to feel the lights go out as we age…
Imagine never feeling those lights on your entire life and just watching other people get it the entire time...
History shows that it is definitely not a modern age problem.
@@user-ee1fn4vt8b Inferiority complex certainly doesn't help with turning them on 😶
@@chris4231 Who says I have trouble with that? Go back to your troll hole.
Of course beauty is inherently linked to age because many of the things that make people beautiful deteriorate and or deplete naturally as we age
Example include decrease in collagen in the skin leading to lesser elasticity
Hair loss caused by the miniaturization of hair follicles
Greying
Decrease in both growth hormone and sex steroids
We are essentially useless after 30 years of age in the context of our revolutionary history
I really noticed this when I was pregnant. I looked chunky, not pregnant, and saved cash by wearing my partner's old sweaters. It was like a cloak of invisibility, no one hassled me for months. We called it the 'babe bubble'.
Well. welcome in the life of an average male, who is always invisible. I call woman privilege!
This absolutely affected me. I was born not "conventionally" attractive. I had a jaw surgery for breathing issues that changed my face shape and gave me a jaw line and it completely changed the way people treated me. No one was inherently mean to me beforehand but I notice I get more attention now. I don't think anyone was doing it on purpose but damn if it didn't make me think about how I treat people based on looks.
Well. welcome in the life of an average male, who is always invisible. I call woman privilege!
I was thinking about this the other day because I don't think people realize pretty privilege exists until they're not pretty anymore so people who are conventionally pretty just kind of go through life thinking everyone is lazy when really we got dealt the not-that-attractive card. I legit had guys that were average say they were too good-looking for me even though it wasn't me approaching them it was a friend trying to set us up and you know it's honestly easier to be single when men are like that.
I think pretty privilege is one side of the coin in these statistics. Growing up poor will also impact your looks as an adult. Malnutrition, not partaking in hobbies like sports or workouts, dental care, etc will impact your looks as an adult. And since family wealth is a big indicator of future wealth, the correlation between looks (height for example) and wealth can be also explained in this fashion.
I don’t deny that pretty privilege exists, but I think there’s this big factor that was left out in this video and it should’ve been addressed.
Exactly
Completely agree. I think that this is a big factor that is often excluded from the conversation
This is what I thought when she mentioned height being correlated to more earnings
I actually don't agree with you. They were having a conversation about the specific topic of the privilege that comes from being beautiful. That isn't totally correlated to wealth; some of the wealthiest people are the most unattractive and that's how they're actually identifiable to other extremely wealthy people because they don't actually look attractive cause of all the inbreeding and hedonistic lifestyle
@@Speakup117 well, you have to keep correlated variables into account anyway 🤷 and it's rare for correlations to be perfect. Anyway, some of the "attractive" features they used are only proxies for attractiveness. Height, for example, is clearly positively correlated to wealth.
I think the easiest is to look moderately attractive. If you are super pretty, you may never know who actually likes you for who you are on the inside. Kim Basinger said she often saw it as a curse despite the obvious advantages. And if you are considered ugly, you will be "punished" by society.
Yes, also people constantly stare at you, track and judge you and overcompensate their insecurities in interacting with you, so it can be a very hostile environment especially for teenagers who are just figuring social things out. People (esp. men) also get pissed when your character/behaviour does not match the fantasy they created in their daydreaming to your face/body.
I only realised that as I got older and gained weight. Much more relaxed now. Sweet spot was in my twenties, where the privilege was real.
It’s the same as being intelligent, geniuses and people with serious intellectual disabilities suffer trying to fit in society. Is best to be slightly attractive and slightly smarter than the rest. That gives you the best opportunities at the lowest cost.
It also depends on the kind of pretty you are. Gigi Hadid/Jennifer Anniston pretty usually gets a very different reception from like Megan Fox/Angelina Jolie pretty.
I’m surrounded by a sea of ugly people all doing pretty good in life. This is in Australia. I think not being a total douchebag of a human helps a lot more than being ‘pretty’. Most adults (over 25) are not really keen on pretty people if they have a really shite personality. I guess in the ruthless dating world looks matter but looks won’t get you as far as you think if you are a horrid person.
How’s pretty privilege helping Megan though? She was with one guy forever and now has moved onto a total loser and basically got blacklisted from Hollywood for calling out the misogyny. If anything, her prettiness held her back and got her typecast. Her original looks helped her out but she is now very artificial as she has had a lot of cosmetic surgery and enhancements. Angelina is in a different category as she had nepotism help her more than good looks.
Not being pretty, especially for women, is a huge hindrance in the US. I am highly intelligent but not "pretty." In high school, I was Valedictorian, but my school gave the scholarship that should have gone to me for achieving that honor to a different girl in my class who wasn't even in the top 10% but who was lovely and (probably more importantly) the daughter of the head of the Board of Directors for our school.
I've never been paid more than $20/hr, despite having a Master's degree (couldn't afford to keep going for a PhD). These days, I am in poor health and over 50, so I only hope to be able to continue to work to pay my bills until I'm old enough to receive Social Security (assuming it doesn't disappear on us).
I've only been asked out on a date once in my whole life by someone who actually met me first before asking, and he was 3x my size (I was asked out once by a guy who talked to me on the phone and liked my voice, but he was obviously disappointed when we met IRL). The big guy was a very nice guy, but way too into comic books for me back then (it's all he wanted to talk about), so we only did the one date.
I don't let it bother me, but it's clearly affected my earning ability over the years. Now that I'm also overweight due to my thyroid dying, my doctors are no longer sympathetic towards me and some actually blame me for being overweight (not all doctors are as smart as we'd hope they'd be). It's a real issue, and I do have trouble mustering sympathy for very attractive people finding it difficult to be attractive when it's easy to hide how attractive you are, but very hard if not impossible to improve one's looks when unattractive.
It is what it is, but I do wish people were paid according to their merits and not their appearance. I have been rejected for jobs, including working as a teacher, specifically for not being attractive enough to hold that position (was literally told that's why I wasn't being hired). I have been hired for a few jobs in my life because I would pose "no threat" to my boss' wife; she wouldn't have to worry about him being attracted to me. It's a weird world we live in.
Thank you for sharing.
So sorry that’s been your experience. People suck! 😒
I've always had a pretty face but was overweight. I've been treated very badly by strangers & not well by many others who knew me. I was able to get Executive Assistant roles easily because I was qualified & fat & when the wives would do the "pop-in" on my first week they never came back. I was no threat.
Now I'm in my 40s & still fat & my face is sagging lol, I'm more invisible than I was before. I don't really mind being invisible if when I'm noticed people are nice/polite to me. But I get upset when people are rude or mean to me & nice to everyone else. I've had this experience several times in retail stores.
The older I get the less I give a shit about how I'm perceived & that's been freeing. I'm a very friendly & smiley person & 8/10 experiences I have with strangers aren't horrible. Funnily enough, when I was smaller, younger & prettier I had relentless bad experiences. From strangers walking past me saying "good head, shame about the body" to men being visibly disappointed when they'd meet me for a date. Despite my always having full length honest photos & literally stating I'm fat on my profile and in chatting beforehand.
The world is a cruel place, I'm happy for invisibility these days.
@@aussiejubes We've lived similar lives. Yes, invisibility helps.
@@daniellek1461 I hear you! And thanks
Separate from attractiveness, I’ve always looked younger than I actually am (like I still somehow get mistaken for a high schooler but I’m 29). I think that’s been a weird privilege in a way, because more people are willing to help me out or give me the benefit of the doubt when they think I’m a helpless teenager.
Downside is nobody takes you seriously.
When I grew a beard, suddenly people treated me way better, as I went from looking like a young buck to being a mature adult, suddenly waiters were calling me sir, and nobody questioned me being at a venue.
Totally agree with both of these things. I'm in my late twenties and get mistaken for a teenager, which can be useful; people are definitely more ready to help me. But people can also be WAY less respectful, not bother listening to me, visibly talk down to me and over-explain as if I'm stupid, which is really frustrating. I've seen people's demeanours totally change when they realise how old I am
Yea I mean if you look like a helpless teenager men will just want to take advantage of you , I would be weary of the help you’re receiving
This is so true. People are extremely lenient when you look young
@@LBelacquax my boyfriend and i both look much younger than we are. One time we walked into an Ashley furniture store, intending to buy a couch, and none of the sales people would even talk to us. They would immediately run to help anyone else who walked in the door, but they just walked right by us when we were actually trying to get their help. I guess they thought we were teenagers who wouldnt buy anything. We got a couch way cheaper at Ikea
I’m now 32 and experienced what your ex felt, probably to a smaller degree. I remember wildly getting away with so many things when I was in my early- to mid-twenties that I think was partially attributed to my appearance. Most significantly, I was given way more leeway than the average person, it seemed. In addition to people just giving me way more of their time for no good reason, they empathized with me way more than they should have.
This changed around age 28/29 when I started to age out of conventional “young” attractivenesss. The transition in how I was treated in public was a little jarring, especially when I went out to bars, but I really felt like I was experiencing the death of my beauty in real-time.
Ironically, I am more confident in my appearance now than I ever was in my 20s.
I wonder how much the older age changed for you because some people I know who are around 28/29 still look pretty young (early 20s)
Welcome to our world where you do everything yourself and you are the first person at fault for everything
I lost 100lbs and saw how almost everyone (strangers, family and friends) treated me better. They were nicer and complimenting me continuously. I didn’t realize I was kinda invisible when I was obese.
Makes me think of how I realized if I wanted to ask my parents for something as a teen I needed to be wearing make up.
It's so weird isnt it! I've gained my weight back and have once again faded into the background
Lol it is weird when you can tell your own parents are nicer to you when you’re skinny 😂
I’m never gonna starve myself 😂 I’m gonna eat my fried chicken and mashed potatoes
I was not considered conventially attractive in my awkward 10-teen stages. I was always known for being funny, a good friend, and reliable.
Fast forward to turning 21 it all changed. Now I'm in my thirties and I still get huge benefits from being viewed as conventionally attractive: free things, people going out of their way to help me, even career opportunities and advances. The difference is Interesting. Over the years because I used to be known only for my personality I was very obtuse about advances from men I always thought that they just wanted to be my friend and I was so confused when they'd make a move. I still struggle with it because I was not seen as beautiful when I was younger.
Well. I call woman privilege!
I’ve seen both sides of it, as a teen I had horrible acne, in my 20s my skin cleared up and I was “conventionally attractive”, now in my thirties depression has helped me gain 70 pounds and I’m starting to see the wrinkles around my eyes. I can say, without a doubt people treated me better when I was thinner, younger, and more attractive by societies standards.
I would love to see/hear a discussion between women dealing with being ignored due to age and women who have always been ignored.
when wealthy supermodels in the 60s write books or do podcasts from their mansions or beach houses opining how hard it is to exist and how invisible or ugly they feel...and every younger woman who's never had the privilege of conventional beauty or crazy money just sitting there like👁👄👁
Welcome to the average mans life
"Unattractive women get treated like they have no value. Attractive women get treated like their only value is in their appearance."
Both suck.
This idea that “ugly” ppl are somehow jealous and bitter toward conventionally attractive ones is really bizarre for me because I often see the reverse: conventionally attractive ppl being horribly mean and arrogant toward those whom they believe are inferior looks-wise to themselves.
Exactly 💯, it is the entitlement that is very icky
There out there believe me.
The less attractive assume the beautiful are conceited because they feel inferior in comparison. You assume they are conceited based on appearance as no e we without even giving them a chance.
@@NM-mc4rjAnd some would be b**tches at any size or level of attractiveness. The beauties may tone it up or down or may have had trauma issues from childhood. Narcissism/sociopathy does not care what you look like.
I think it's wrong to assume people's character on either sides.
Something you haven't mentioned that I think is important is that on the whole things like height or attractiveness have an interesting interplay with socioeconomic status. What I mean by this is one of the biggest determinants of height outside of genetics is prenatal and childhood nutrition. Poor nutrition in childhood is a problem in cases of low socioeconomic class. Also in the social constructs we find ourselves in attractive people tend to attract higher calibre mates in reference to socioeconomic status, especially women. I think this is very complex and raises the old chicken egg debate.
It's not really a debate about chicken and the eggs
Height is like 80% genetic
The issue is that people don't like talking about genetics because it offends the delusional idea of " all born equal" they have in their mind
Plus, most people in the US don't have a malnutrition problem
Even levels of hunger, motivation, stress tolerance, etc are heavily determined by genetics
@finesse3417 Height is like 80% genetic? Is this a fact or are you guessing? Read what I said again, one of the biggest determinants of height outside genetics is childhood and prenatal nutrition. I did not say genetics is not important. Yes your height has a genetic limit however if you have poor nutrition as a baby it will limit the amount to which your bones grow. This happens in the first 2 years of life. There is a lot of childhood malnutrition in lower socioeconomic classes in Europe and North America. Go read about it.
@@Misdee86 there is not a lot malnutrition in Europe or north America
That is false
80% is an estimate that is widely accepted in the scientific community
I am a huge nerd for all things genetics and physiology ( studied physiology in undergrad and currently a med student)
I want to avoid the straw man or arguing about a non issue. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of people in first world countries do not face malnutrition
As a matter of fact, we actually have the opposite problem ( over abundance of food, which is manifested by the obesity epidemic we are currently facing)
So arguing about it is like arguing about a tiny fraction of the population that don't even factor
I was born and raised in one of the poorest counties in the world, and even there, the overwhelming majority of children are not having their height stunted due to malnutrition
Now imagine in first world countries where we have a lot of social safety nets , especially for kids and pregnant women, and cheap fast food
Please
As for height lost in early childhood, most of it can be made up during puberty if there was a deficit during childhood
And the reverse is also true
If a kid was meant to be 5'10 based on his parents genetics, he will not continue to grow past it even if it got most of his height before puberty
Please read this paper to see where the 80% value comes from
www.nature.com/articles/srep28496
Please let stop the cope
Life isn't fair
Some people were born to suffer
It is what it is
Virtue signaling won't change the brutal reality of the world we live in- well, brutal for some and beautiful for others, depending on your genetics hahaha
@finesse3417 I am a doctor in England. I work inner city London. Whilst the malnutrition you see in war stricken countries isn't seen here I see children with malnutrition every week. It is reflected in our statistics here. It is only getting worse with the cost of living crisis. You made this an issue, I said genetics is important but it is not the only factor.
I have read the nature article you posted and this is a direct copy from the conclusion which mirrors my first comment.
"The influence of the shared environment on height variation up to 19 years, which is consistent with previous studies in adolescents19 and adults21 with enough statistical power to detect this component, suggests that adult height variation reflects childhood living conditions. Studies have shown that the secular trend in adult height occurs during the first two years of life mainly due to increases in leg length26. A plausible explanation is that the period of most rapid growth, when the effect of an adverse environment is strongest, coincides with the period when most growth takes place in the long bones of the legs26"
All of this to go back to my first point. Environmental factors count. They do not trump genetics but they count.
Here is a link to an article detailing what I am saying: www.bapen.org.uk/bapen-statements/child-malnutrition-in-england-doubles
As someone that has lived in different countries, I have experienced pretty privilege on varying levels.
In France, where I’m from, I’m considered pretty average, and in Europe in general, I am not treated particularly well. In the us, where I studied for 4 years, I was considered beautiful (even before people heard my accent) and was treated like a queen, men paying for drinks, people being overly nice, getting nervous, and questioning what I say less. My self confidence has never been the same since.
I spent some time in east Asia too, and being white there put my perceived attractiveness on another level.
If you adjust for culture the way people treated me depending on how attractive they saw me was wild.
It also had an impact on my confidence levels and how focused I could get when studying or working, because I had less worries in general, it was easier to get better grades.
Also, I have curly hair and I see that the rare times I straighten it people generally treat me better too
not to mention with the beauty industry, being beautiful is something you can buy! so the scale always tips in favor of the 1%
I used to have pretty privilege and didn't even know it until it was taken away😢.
I became really ill in my mid twenties and lost way too much weight, worst acne of my life all over my body, most of my hair fell out, I couldn't sleep so looked DEAD. People would stare.
It really made me realise how much better I was treated by everyone when I looked 'good'.
I've never quite recovered from that period of illness. My hair never grew back, bad acne scarring, weight gain etc and now I'm in my 30's, I do get really upset that I don't have the disposable income that my friends have to 'invest' in beauty.
They have hair extensions and professional cut/dyes, nails done, botox, fillers, lash and brow treatments, invisalign, facials, expensive lotions and potions and make up.
I panic if I spend more than £10 on a moisturiser because that is alot of money to me 😭.
I want to be pretty again but had to come to terms with the fact that I will never look like pre-illness me again and I'm trying to work on myself from within. But damn it's hard 😂😅 and I feel it would be easier with more money to sort some things out.
The last part I would agree with
Thank you for sharing ❤
Have you thought of doing a blog, YT, to document your experience? I'm sure there are a lot of ppl who have similar turnabouts.
I saw try and up your nutrition and try and heal from the inside
*say
My college best friend is very beautiful and super nice, smart & hard working. In her teens & 20s other girls & women would sometimes do the meanest things to her which was crazy, because she tried to always be nice and include everyone.
Some of the guys in class would say the professors gave her higher marks then they got because of her attractiveness despite the fact that when we'd do group projects she was the one who had all the info memorized and could explain how to emollient it... we did have one professors give her a lower score because she was a female and he said he thought she didn't understand the material very well, despite her getting the highest test scores and doing most of the work on the design project. We studied engineering... she has gone on to a good career starting out with 80 hr work weeks. Now she has a cushy job, making big bucks, but I saw her work super hard for a long time to get where she's at and she's very good at her job, but some people still say rude things to her. Then she leads a meeting and can answer any design question presented to her.
Yes, there is a downside to being very active.
I was just saying this to my hubby last week! If we raised the minimum of empathy and respect we show each other regardless of how attractive we find the other person I think a lot of people would get off the hamster wheel of pursuing beauty since it just brings diminishing returns for everyday people.
I’m to the point where I just don’t care about this anymore, pretty people, if people think I’m pretty and treat me accordingly. I’m tired of it all. I just want to have peace, be happy and reach a place where I’m content with my life and surroundings. None of the above has any concrete bearing on that. People treat me like crap because they think I’m unattractive, that is their problem and I’ll continue to live my life. On the flip side, pretty privilege is people showing you approval on something that is fleeting and is just not that deep when it come to things that really matter in life. Just over the obsession with looks.
If you’re noticeably above average looking (you can be pretty in an average way) then pretty privilege is just a curse. You might get a free brownie at the cafe but you’ll also have stalkers and enemies for no reason
This is so interesting! As a tall woman (5'9") I have never thought about my height contributing to me earning more than my peers. I'm also kind of an overachiever, so it's hard to say. I've always been drawn to leadership roles and excelled in them, but maybe I was given those leadership opportunities more easily than someone short so I got better at leadership and then was given more leadership roles, etc.
Wow I’m 5,9 and considered anywhere I’ve ever worked have taken on a leadership role or customers have always thought I was the manager
Interesting, I didn't know it worked for women too! @@deneshiaash876
Increased height is technically a male trait, and one of multiple sexually dimorphic variables.
In summary, height is masculine, and leadership is masculine, so tall people generally end up in leadership positions.
People feel most comfortable following taller people as it is a primitive signal of ability to protect.
Obviously we live in a world where these primitive generalisations are mostly irrelevant, but they are stubbornly enduring.
I personally think we should embrace it, rather than waste energy on changing things that aren't important.
I feel like I’ve justified myself to be ‘not pretty’ but I’m pretty to somebody. Also, I feel like there’s this expectation of ‘ageing gracefully’ (aimed at women) which is not possible for everyone.
I remember writtng about my experience with pretty privilege online and was shocked when I got push back or hand waving that it was "Just you gaining confidence".
I have always been an extroverted person but going from tall, fat, and below average in high school to tall, thin, and attractive in university was night and day.
Chell puts a lot of emphasis on "Punished for being ugly, normalized for being attractive" but there is definitely a gradient.
As an average guy I am seen as invisible to many women. But when I was hot folks would come up to me. I've experienced the "Lights slowly going out" over covid and it was a lot to deal with. It honestly draws parallels to the classic idea of "Is it better to love and to lose or to have never loved at all?"
Honestly, I have respect for very attractive people realizing that they still have issues and life won't be this good forever. But I fail to empathize that it is an issue.
As someone who has lived both sides, get use to it kiddo.
Losing any kind of privilege and becoming more fairly treated hurts.
Straight middle-aged men absolutely lose their damn minds when they get hit with this. It's amazing to watch their sense of entitlement start glitching.
@@pendafen7405 Haha straight middle aged man here, 5'4" 115lbs, dyslexic, ASD, never been on a date or in a relationship, don't earn much over minimum wage, it will be interesting when I lose my privilege. lol
So tired of this pretty privilege topic. I've been considered pretty many times in my life. I don't feel like it did much for me. I struggle to get jobs, people are not that nice to me, I got bullied in school... The only perks is that it is easy to get dates and I get compliments. Then again I am a WOC.
This! The subject is much more nuanced when you're a WOC.
It's either because you're a WOC or possibly on the ASD spectrum.
It’s so interesting, nuanced, and frustrating. I can definitely see it from both sides. When I was younger and reckless with my driving, I got two stunt driving warnings. Speeding at that level is often a roadside vehicle seizure but I basically just got told to smarten up. That has saved me hundreds and hundreds of dollars in what should have been fines and then increased insurance. On the flip side, I’ve had my cries for mental health support brushed aside in the past because the assumption was that I had “nothing to be depressed about”.
That sounds more like it was white privilege than beauty privilege
@@Speakup117 That’s definitely an aspect of it, as they are intertwined due to Eurocentric beauty standards.
@@-natmac no specifically cause cops don't treat non white people like that
Leaving that aside, it appears that everyone is currently considering investing in a variety of non-governmental revenue streams. especially in light of the current global economic crisis. I'm looking for the best way to enter these markets with my six zeros sitting in savings. Equities, gold, silver, and virtual currencies are still great investments at the time.
@donaldcarlson7862 It is more difficult to build a strong financial portfolio, so I advise you to get help from a specialist. You can then receive plans created to address your particular long-term objectives and financial aspirations.
@@williamrobertson6380 A great way to get started is to work with a professional to create a well-structured investing portfolio. I've been focusing on my interactions with Kristine Marie Brice because of this. I've learned to be patient with the market because most traders enter the market hoping to make a quick 10% to 20% profit. Considering that it trades at a P/E ratio of 40-50, they miss out on the enormous returns.
@@bondyjoseph5171 I'm happy to have stumbled upon this discussion. I appreciate the recommendation; I'm in desperate need of one, so I'll make sure to research Sharon. Again, many thanks.
There was this short documentary that the Sundance channel had on about fifteen years ago that interviewed people -- women, especially -- who were considered extremely attractive and what they dealt with on a daily basis. I don't remember very many specifics, but one of the women broke down crying at one point while she was enumerating how out of their way random men would go for her, the random propositions she would receive, and how scary it felt to be so hyper visible (if I'm recalling correctly). It really stuck with me.
I know I had my first professional job opportunity because I was pretty and the VP thought I was cute. I was fresh out of university and looking for my first real job. One night, the VP of an important engineering consulting firm contacted me to tell me they had an opening for someone with my profile. I passed the interview a couple of days later with him and my future boss (a woman) and got the job. Obviously, I worked my ass off to prove myself as a newly hired young female professional in a male dominante industry. First, I thought I got just lucky but I later learned from a male colleague I was hired just for my look and that was the only reason I had a job. From then on, I doubled down in proving everyone I was not just a pretty face and I could work the part. I stopped dressing with feminine professional attire (suits, dress suits, blouse, etc.) and started to wear more jeans and t-shirts (it was okay in my department). I took me 5-6 years in this company to prove I was competent.
@@grungifae2712 Uff...That's a big question. I'm not sure I can answer it properly. I spent 10 years in total in this company. They taught me many valuable lessons about project and client management and the industry in general. But, as a cute young woman in the engineering and construction sector, I had my fair share of low key undermining comments about my competency and skills. I doubted myself every single step of the way until I reached the point, 5-6 years after starting, where I realized I was a fully fledged project manager with skills and technical knowledge. My project were doing well, my clients were happy with my work. Nobody could say anymore I was there just for my pretty face.
I regret staying for so long and to have endured all their toxic bullshit. This company wrecked my mental health with their work practices. I did 2 burn outs and I'm still battling with the side effects of my last one more than 2 years after it. I should have quit earlier and believed more in my skills. I thought (wrongly) I still needed to prove myself more. I thought that since my bosses and colleagues knew me I would have a better chance in advancing in my role than if I changed company, even in the same sector.
2 years ago, I completely changed industry sector and I'm much happier. I can clearly see now how wrong I was for staying and how damaging it was to my career. But life is life and we can only learn from our past mistakes.
"For someone with my profile" - in hindsight, ugh. But *good for you, working so hard to earn the place that you felt you had not already earned!*
Now, as a man in a similarly male-heavy industry, and in a department of 100% white dudes, I asked a boss a few years back to please see if our next hire could be someone other than a white dude. He agreed, and really did try, but the applicant pool wasn't in our favor, and the one woman we tried to bring on didn't work out. So, if _you_ had been in the picture, we would've probably given you a chance not because you're pretty but because you're female. I feel a bit conflicted as I don't love affirmative action in general, but I also don't love being on a team of 100% white dudes and I feel it is reasonable to at least _seek out_ more diverse applicants.
[In fairness, we're not lacking in all diversity. That manager I mentioned lives on a different continent and his native language isn't English. My innermost team-of-4, we're from 3 countries with 3 native languages. But... we _are_ all white dudes.]
@@grungifae2712 I _like to think,_ at least, that when asking my manager to try to hire women or POC, I wasn't trying to virtue-signal, just genuinely felt we should make the effort. Of course, I have to question that a little, since I _did_ bring it up with strangers in a mostly unrelated conversation. (:
(And _not,_ incidentally, because I believe in "strength through diversity" as such. There's certainly something to that, in general - but not really in my field. We benefit from a diversity of _prior work experience,_ to come up with creative solutions to technical problems, but I don't think diversity of _life_ experience really enters into that.)
As for the unwanted sexual attention and such, I _hope,_ in my company at least, that wouldn't be a big problem. Because my dept is all remote (like I said, 4 people in 3 countries) and this hire would be as well. And even for live meetings we rarely turn on our cameras. So I _hope_ the effects of sexism in the workplace would at least be muted, here.
@@vishsagi2011 This VP had the reputation to hire cute young junior professionals and he bragged a little about it to other male colleagues. He hired twins female junior professionals after me. We all had the diplomas and resume to be credible hires, we didn’t only have our look, but our look played a role in getting approached.
But I know, part of why I got my first interview is because my photo caught his eyes on Linkedin.
Hard to understand why would you work extra hard and hide your beauty to prove something. Just enjoy your life and your your beauty while it last, you don’t have to apologise and punish yourself for it.
I gained 40 lbs during the pandemic and during that time I didn’t get a single match on dating apps. Last summer I lost that weight and when I got back on the apps, I had more matches than I could possibly respond to. Because I’ve been on both sides of the attractiveness spectrum, I can definitely say people treat you better when you’re more attractive.
Yes ... but you have to admit, that's an artificial environment. The apps direct users' attention very much toward your photoroll, even though you can put in all sorts of other information about yourself. You're _not wrong,_ but the apps do magnify the effect somewhat.
Worth mentioning that being attractive to people who don't know anything about you, and being attractive to specific people because of inborn characteristics that we have no (or very little control) over like Race, Sexual Orientation, Gender, Physical Ability, etc etc are not always the same kind of priviledge and should be distinguished. Even if you are a fetish or seen as desirable to a specific audience seeking you out, especially in a romantic or sexual context like in the case of a poor BIPOC trans woman sex worker, it doesn't mean you can't also experience discrimination in general for your appearance not being seen as socially desirable/acceptable by many people who don't share that obsession. Pretty priviledge is not only sitautional, it is intersectional and affects us in intersectional ways.
In my small example, I fully agree. 2.5 years ago, I went from long hair to buzzing everything off on a whim.
I became invisible to most of the opposite sex overnight. However, to a niche audience, I suddenly became ultra attractive and they weren’t shy to let me know.
It kind of pissed me off to be fetishised but at the same time, I truly understood that everyone has different likes and tastes.
It's difficult to talk about pretty privilege without inserting yourself into an attractive or unattractive category. And god forbid you claim to be attractive. I have faced a lot of loneliness and bullying from my same gender because I am of a higher-than-average attractiveness, but can't talk about it without being crucified. It's a difficult subject to bring up!
Can beauty be isolating? Yes. However, so can being "ugly" or having other characteristics that many people find off-putting.
@@ifetayodavidson-cade5613 Agreed! While there are undeniably some isolating aspects of being in _any_ privileged group, you have to forgive the rest of us rolling our eyes a bit if you mention it because, at least in perception, the balance of pros and cons is so skewed in that direction.
@@ps.2 Right, and it's common for birds of a feather to flock together to reduce jealousy, etc. So a person who is rich or pretty might prefer to socialize with those like themselves to reduce social friction.
@@ifetayodavidson-cade5613 Yes … _although,_ interesting aside, occasionally you hear that as far as sexual selection goes, some really hot people don't want to be with another really hot person, as they apparently feel vaguely threatened. If their experience is to always be the hottest one in the room, on some level they're not comfortable when that's untrue or unclear.
I dunno - is that a real thing? And if so, does it also apply to platonic relationships? I've not been in the position of either _being_ or _dating_ a really hot person, so I only hear this third-hand. (:
Yes women are the worst at being jealous and alienating. I’ve lived it my whole life even at 55. Some older ladies on our street wouldn’t walk with me because they thought I was in my 30’s. Mean
Ok one thing here that I think might be a confounding factor (and I'm only partway to through the video to be fair) re: CEO heights is that men straight up lie about their height all the time. If the height info was self reported, I would not be surprised in the slightest if most CEOs tend to "round up" to 6' the same way men on dating apps tend to.
Yeah I'm sure that can't account for _all_ the difference, but it definitely should be controlled for. Did they compare objective measurement averages population-wide, with self-reported height in the case of CEOs?
(Incidentally, you're not wrong! - I'm pretty sure I _really am_ about 6', and would say so on any dating app, but I _will not_ double check, lest I find out that I'm actually 5'11.4999 and honesty would require me to round down.)
Yup, I bet they are 5'9". I found that most men lie about their height by 3 inches.
@@mccolk Is it an arms race of expectations? Do I need to put down 6'3" so people will believe the truth that I am about 6 ft? (:
I have felt this myself. When I weighed more heavily or did not take care of my skin, hair, etc, then I suffered monetarily. When I started taking care of my looks & dropped 50 lbs, now my problem is with love. I've been single for a few years now because people just see me as an object to have fun wuthering for a bit, instead of a being with emotions that is bored with just hookups. It seems like I can't win for losing. But I've learned to be content with being single & acknowledging the privilege that I do have.
"'ve been single for a few years now because people just see me as an object to have fun wuthering for a bit, instead of a being with emotions that is bored with just hookups." I dont mean to sound rude, but this is not a correct understanding of why some men are just seeing you as a hookup vs wanting a long term relationship. The real problem isn't your attractiveness, its that men will sleep with women that they would never consider for a relationship and women usually would only sleep with a man that they might consider relationship material. Whats actually happening is that unfortunately the men your encountering have better looking women wanting relationships with them, however, women like you are widely available.
The reality is that the men you are encountering as attractive, have a lot of options, way more than you. Its been studied fairly well, especially if your talking about the realm of online dating and meeting people online in general. Theres some statistics that show that 5% of the men are getting over 60% of the attention from women and so it means that they treat most women as sex objects. If you want to have a relationship with a man that values you, you will need to lower your expectations as to what they look like or how much money they make. This will make for better results.
Well. welcome in the life of an average male, who is always invisible. I call woman privilege!
The great difficulty I have with this is I feel like I am unusually bad at identifying what is "conventionally attractive". Like, people who are supposedly the most attractive people rarely look better to me than anyone else. So I don't even know if I'm benefitting from it, or discriminating on the basis of it.
Do you think you could be demisexual? I find I have to be emotionally invested in a person before I can feel sexual or aesthetic attraction to them.
By aesthetic attraction, I mean the looking at them causes the brain to get non-sexual good vibes chemicals. Similar to looking at a cute animal.
@@seraph644 If anything I think I'm the opposite, if I went by physical attraction alone I feel like I find most people sexy. But if I find someone to have a bad personality it will make me see aesthetic flaws in them when I know literal minutes before I saw them as attractive.
You're probably just more honest than most people about who you find hot. Many people--especially straight men--are not as picky or as obsessed by perfection as they pretend to be in society, but their perceived status demands them to seek pretty shiny trophies not who actually makes them hot.
Same
I don't believe for one second that you cannot identify conventional attractiveness. Unless you are blind.
Conventional attractiveness is basically facial symmetry, signs of good health, full hair, absence of deformity, absence of major deviation from the mean, full lips, large eyes and other neotenous traits. All these things are obvious to an observer.
My theory is that you are virtue signalling. Unless, as I stated, you are blind or have some kind of face blindness or visual impairment.
As an Indian from India, a place where beauty standards have been hard coded into culture for thousands of years, this shit is very real and disheartening. Let me give you an example:
Girl A was very white, like she could move to Sweden and never be called an Indian. Girl B was dark skinned, like the Dravidian Indians. Girl A used to score higher marks by a huge margin than everyone else in the class and girl B used to be a close second. In 10th and 12th grade, we are required to give our finals in a separate school and the exam sheet is checked by random teachers who do not know you. Guess which one was interviewed by the local press for scoring 98.xx% while the other scored around 70%? Girl A’s looks helped her throughout her school career. This was the moment I opened the eyes and realized just how ingrained the notion of white skin and being pretty is in the world. If you’re moderately attractive and white skinned, you automatically have it easier by several folds than a dark skinned, not attractive person no matter how brilliant or bright they are.
I’m turning 22 this week and have recently had so many people comment on how pretty I am and I’ve never experienced that before. It’s a bit uncomfortable and makes me feel like I’m being followed or watched. For the first time I benefited from it when I was given something free at a store and it was very shocking.
😊l🎉k2ioj😅 3o9
14:02 I’ve heard the opposite in studies that less attractive people are typically taken less seriously on their pain and given lower doses of pain medicine which makes logical sense too that doctors give them less priority
The almost dehumanization of an extremely attractive person (or heck, just an above average good looking person) is what I notice about Pretty Privilege. They are separated socially and - like Chelsea mentioned - for women in particular the responses from other women becomes low-key hostile due entirely to the expectation of what that person is like or going to treat others like, because they are so pretty. For men, its used as a yardstick to be measured against. Other men place the attractive man above themselves because he happens to look how they'd like to look, or they associate the societal bonuses to you being so attractive and be-moan the fact out loud with their friends as a self-depricating comradery thing ("Look at how attractive that man is, we aren't like that ha ha"). Either way, the results are the same, a social separation happens, a little gap that puts the pretty person separate from the rest of the group. This doesn't include if you are in a dehumanizing business like modeling either, which adds its own layers.
It goes similarly for ugly people as well - we might as well not exist. People sometimes just straight up walk into me then realise im there lmao.
@@deioped Totally true. The other side to the unfortunate coin ☹️
I really resonate with the idea that those who are outside of the beauty norms are penalized, even more than being inside of those norms are incentivized. I had gained dozens of pounds from a medication I was taking for a few years. Although it had no affect whatsoever on my performance or health, I felt that I was treated much worse. One relevant example, in my college classes, it was hard to find friends or even group mates for assignments after I gained weight. Since then, I lost all of it off and gained an incredible amount of empathy for those who don't conform to our unrealistic standards. The difference was shocking and demoralizing. Every time I meet someone new or known, I now make it a number 1 priority to be mindful.
I love what you say here. This is a spiritual issue. By that I mean it’s a wisdom lesson. I’m learning it too and have been humbled and try not to judge people based on appearance
And yes : Thinness privilege is real. Correlates with higher income in women
I’ve also gained weight due to medication and I’ve learned I must not judge myself or others based on appearance
I understand now that peoples bodies are all different and we go through things that can impact how we look
We have to give each other grace and ourselves too and try not judge based only on appearance but on character
It’s a spiritual lesson really, to see beyond the material and look to and value what is eternal in ourselves and others
About the height/earnings study… Could this be due to the fact that height correlates with nutrition, meaning that people who live in poverty would be more likely to be shorter and maybe earn less on average not because of their height, but because of them coming from poverty and thus being disadvantaged in other ways?
An interesting hypothesis. I presume they tried to control for that, because it would be wild to do a study on economic outcomes and _ignore childhood socioeconomic status._ But controls are harder for observational studies like this one, so, who knows?
(By "observational," I mean, you can't just randomly assign a bunch of kids to multiple height ranges, then watch them grow up - you have to _find people already in those height ranges_ and survey them. As such, it's much harder to know whether you're accounting for all relevant factors, like the one you mention.)
During the panini I went from having an ED and being XS to being a size L. Despite still being slimmer than most people and shaped well, I have started to see those lights go off. I'd never realized just how badly people were treated for being average.
Yup. I underage myself fat (a thing I learned your ED can do ✨️🫠✨️) and it's also been wild watching how still being just average sized is looked down on. I'm a super active person still, but my pant size is no longer single digits and some people act personally offended at that for some reason?
I'm in my thirties now and I'm currently in a sweet spot. I can switch it on or off. If i do my hair and makeup and wear a nice outfit I still have pretty privilege. But I can also go incognito. When i was younger i felt like being pretty was like picking some weird perk in a video game... like 70% chance people will be nicer to you than they usually would be. But 10 percent chance they will hate your guts and treat you with spite. Not neutrality, not even slightly less than neutrality. They want to see you hurt. And that's not just from women. Men are often horrible to women they believe are out of their league. Scroll the comments under any news article about a gorgeous woman.
Agreed, the small things that come with looking good snowball/add up to real privilege quickly. Things like:
- people doing physical labor for you (tire change, lifting luggage, giving a seat for you, not letting you do dangerous things) can reduce your chances of injury or illness
- people being more receptive to you in socializing, interviews, network opportunities can become a referral chain that gets you a better job
- people letting you go first when in line can save you time and effort
- people being more welcoming to you in stores can give you a mental and emotional boost that contributes to your self-esteem, motivation, etc.
At this point, it’s really financially wise to invest in looking good to a certain extent. sadly, it’s very difficult to do.
I'm on the bellcurve end and had rough puberty that really highlighted it. I can’t tell you how many people have treated me either really good or really sleazy due to it so I appreciate that you explained it so clearly. There is absolutely an issue with people using looks as an excuse to treat others not even bare minimum. I also think that we as a society put too much of our power and worth externally. Its cliché but I think this conversation is really a bigger one about how a lot of people are spiritually empty.
Imagine someone hot af turning 30? Lol not to laugh at the psychological distress of your hot ex because am not but it really shows the bs around aging. Like unless people want to die young, they should be happy to be aging. Also, I guess I should be happy to be a medium on the beauty spectrum. Am so glad am in social services. Being hot won't get you anything in my field.
To be pretty may be hard, especially for those women who are not ASPDs or who are introverts, autistic or schizoids and can't or do not want to use the prettiness as a tool and to manipulate people. It may be difficult to find a partner because men around are sure that a woman like you just can't be alone and is already married. It may be annoying to see weirdos who just don't care if you really have a partner and they are stalking you. As an early teen (like 13-14) considered pretty I was nearly kidnapped twice. Prettiness and "ugliness" both have their dark stressful sides (the latter though has more of it). I think the best is to look average. The problem is that many people mistaken average for unattractiveness which are not even close to be the same thing.
I'm autistic and pretty ( though not extremely pretty, but above average). I think it cancels out any positive effects for me. People constantly disrespect me, manipulate me, doubt me, and a lot of women especially are hostile to me.
@@kr3642 ASD makes life harder in many ways. I know that there is a must-thing-to-learn regardless the "level of prettiness": to set strong personal boundaries and stop trust others with ease. It is possible to learn how to recognize many ways of manipulation and how to keep it at distance. It is just a skill. Even though for people on autism spectrum it is harder to learn those things it is still possible and quite necessary. Women disliking pretty women is quite a common thing. How much they show it though depends on various factors. A weaker (shy, with low social skills etc) pretty woman usually suffers more from their hostility.
Being a pretty teenage girl is terrifying.
I'm glad you included the part about tall men. I've had to deal with incompetent men in boss/management positions and when I complained to other people about legit problems with them, everyone loved giving them the benefit of the doubt and I was wondering why.. and then I noticed they were all like 6'2" or taller.
You are always on the ball, I am ever so grateful for the work you and your team do.
This video is phenomenally professionally done. I love how research heavy your videos are. Thank you so much.
Being pretty and/or handsome is a gift, but also a curse. People always take such people for granted and thinking that they always have it easy in life.
Lmao they dont? As compared to someone ugly born with the same economic circumstances?
They have it easier in some regard, that is for sure, so could we say that these assumptions are not entirely baseless?
Thank you . People don’t realize you have to *use* it if you want perks . I don’t want to have to flirt or feel disgusting everywhere I go , by some way trying to use my looks to get something . Being polite nice or friendly has opened me to harassment and worse. Being pretty didn’t stop me from having a nerve disease and no $ , so there’s still a lot of classist things that happen. I wish I could get free medical care cuz I’m hot lol. It’s very frustrating for others to assume that hot people are getting a bunch of free stuff it’s not happening and usually isn’t worth the feeling of being so degraded
@@baby.nay. now imagine if you were ugly. Stop trying to downplay your privilege
I do think you’re right about a bell curve for women, but I think men are on an exponential growth curve. There doesn’t seem to be any backlash for attractive men, no matter how attractive they are.
I was an ugly duckling for the first 14 years of my life, and I built my identity and self esteem around how ugly I felt. I knew I became attractive when people started often telling me I was beautiful, could be a model, and even how they were jealous of me. This was extremely jarring as I had never thought of myself as even normal looking. I had a boost in self esteem, centred around my appearance. With this focus on my appearance came extreme self consciousness, as for the first time in my life I was being recognised for something positive about myself and I was terrified to lose the compliments and attention. I spent the next few years, up until now, focussing on my appearance as I believed it was the only way I could get social approval. Now I am obsessive about the way I look, and have body dysmorphia, so while pretty privilege may seem great it’s really not.
In my experience, pretty privilege is not even subtle. I am very average-looking, but I have had my days when I looked better than usual, and even pretty. I remember noticing it in the mirror before going out, and surely, there would be a noticeable, sometimes very noticeable, difference in how people treated me. I look better for 1 day, and the boy at the counter starts looking nervous and trying to make casual conversation with me. I had a man at a cafe kiss my hand and offer me a job at his company. I can see that kind of treatment for what it is, superficial, but even then I can't help but feel more joyful and social, because everyone is being nice. I think prettiness has a huge impact on day to day life, and I would be surprised if that didn't carry over into your career.
Interesting topic that I’ve never really explored in depth, but certainly have felt the impacts of. Thanks for the video.
I had recent experience that is more intersectional, but pretty privilege felt like a part of it. When I was about to go on maternity leave, the small company I worked for hired a new employee to cover my position. The idea was that I’d be their manager when I got back. They ended up hiring the most conventionally attractive, youngest, thinnest woman we interviewed. Fast forward to when I got back, despite performing my job poorly while she was covering for me, she essentially got promoted to a position I’d wanted in the past, but that was never open. And they paid for her education. I feel a lot of this had to do with their perception of her based on her appearance. As a new mom who is plus size and a POC I felt completely felt overlooked and sidelined. It really affected my confidence.
Well said! your take on affirmative action!
Yep! I wouldn't ever have considered myself very attractive, but I was averagely pretty in my twenties, I think. But crucially, for a period of time where I was trying to break into a part of an industry that was at the time pretty heavily dominated by men, I was attractive in context, as it were, if I had to guess. What happened was I did make a few connections and get a few opportunities and offers, but more often than not they were accompanied by the assumption on the part of the male acquaintance I was talking to that there was some flirting going on. Some of which... was pretty traumatic and awful, actually. I got taken advantage of in ways my average-looking male peers wouldn't have been. Subsequently, I turned 30, got married, put on a fair bit of weight, and wouldn't you know it, the opportunities, such as they were, dried up entirely. Huh, how about that
I love the nuanced way you tackled this topic and highlighted the challenges and benefits. There's a reason why I only talk to 3 people about this.
The last bit about affirmative action was so well said, omg.
I sincerely believe that beauty is very subjective but it can also be altered and worked on. A lot of it is also in how much you work out, wearing makeup, dressing in a certain way, general grooming, and confidence. And those are all things you can change. As far as height goes, I have seen plenty of shorter men in high positions! It is all about their confidence! It isnt surprising that the data shows that we are more likely to be penalized by being unattractive than we are to receive benefits for being attractive.
I also never noticed that the most popular people in high school were attractive. A lot of them were just average looking and many even chubby. But they had confidence and acted like they were all that and a bag of chips. Meanwhile, we had girls that were ballerinas that were more marginalized because they just werent very extroverted. It really is the whole package. You can be the best looking person in the world, but if you dont carry yourself with confidence, no one will see it.
A lot of the things you mentioned that "you can change" have a cost associated with them. Clothes cost money, caring well for good clothes costs money, hair products and hair appointments cost money. Skincare and makeup cost money. Gyms or home gym equipment costs money. Given that people who are naturally attractive are also more likely to have that money, how is this suggestion helpful? Also, many of the issues like medical care are less likely to be impacted by confidence. A lot of this has to do with implicit biases that others don't realize they are acting on.
It's also a self-esteem issue. People who think they are ugly are going to have lower self-esteem vs those who have higher self-esteem and view themselves as "pretty". As people we can sense those insecurities. Being pretty or ugly is up to the individual. If we are looking at the male gaze and going off of what men think are pretty, the more a man thinks a woman is pretty the less they are to take her seriously. So is this pretty privilege? It's a deep topic with a lot of moving parts when we start talking about the male gaze and BIPOC woman. Just food for thought from someone who had very low self-esteem and went through a period of feeling ugly. After I looked inward and buily confidence, blocked out the noise of what society deem as peak of beauty, doesn't matter who thinks I'm ugly, because I know I am not.
Oh my gosh…your words on affirmative action…so inspiring and helps me feel more confident in voicing my opinion hearing you lay things out.
The problem I had was that, I was never perceived as “attractive” and I certainly never felt it… until I was given a modeling opportunity that I knew I wouldn’t be able to do since I don’t drive. And, all of a sudden, received so much attention, but then I got into a relationship, became content, gained weight and grew older and then those people that admired me, no longer wanted anything to do with me. I’m certainly not “fat” and I was considerably underweight before, but I’ve learned that what matters most, is your estimation of yourself and your need to promote your own spiritual, intellectual and emotional growth. It’s good to maintain upkeep, on your external self, but nothing is more vital than your inner beauty and being the best version of yourself. Be kind to yourself, because you’re going to be with yourself for a while.
I loved this video! I have been delving more into self-esteem, beauty, and societal standards and this was perfectly said.
Loved this video, thank you!
Loved your opinion at the end there!
Great video👍🏽…..love your glasses👓
I haven’t seen your videos show up on my subscriptions in forever!
I was unattractive throughout my childhood and adolescence and became attractive in my late teens early 20”s. I then became very attractive once I started working out and have been here for about 8 years.
Being handsome is definitely a blessing and complaining about all the benefits that come with it is like complaining about being rich.
The one thing I can say that is a con is the constant sexual hurrasment I get from both sexes. I’ve had to physically confront ppl who think they can just touch me and grab me. Aside from that it’s pretty sweet. The attention, the stares, the undeserved praise. It’s one of the best things I got going for me and I’m lucky because since I grew up as the polar opposite I can appreciate it and not take it too seriously or let it go to my head.
"one of the best things I got going for me". Sounds like it's gotten to your head
11:42 this is very true. I've always had low self esteem and body image issues so I didn't know for a long time that i was perceived by others as attractive (and knowing that doesnt help my self esteem). I always wondered why other girls would make up rumors about me and treat me cruelly even when i was really nice to them. It wasnt until a girl i worked with told me that the other girls at work didnt like me because they were jealous about the way i looked. I always wished i could reach out and tell them that i feel just as insecure as they do, but they were always so cold toward me. To this day i have trouble making friends with girls my age and i mostly make friends with women much older than me who are less likely to be petty and insecure.
Great vid!
I think the correlation between tall men and higher wage earnings, based on personal experience in the Eighties, is that taller, more athletically built men tend to participate in team sports, and -- again based on my experience (at a NYC prep school and elite Eastern liberal arts college) -- is that sports teams serve as feeders for corporate recruiters. The brainy English majors are not inclined to work at Goldman Sachs or the like, where being a "team player" is essential to success.
I think I have benefited from a version of pretty privilege that I call 'The Kind Nurse'. I'm not specifically a nurse (ultrasound tech/sonographer), but I have been working since I was 23. I always looked younger than I am which at the beginning made people think I was a student or inexperienced.
I am 30 now so even though I still look young, my confidence puts people at ease and patients are often surprised I have been working in my field as long as I have.
People go out of their way to talk to me or compliment me in public more when I am wearing my scrubs. My face is unassuming and my scrubs make people assume I am safe. I don't get hit on as much as people assume I am a kind, caring person they can trust.
In my experience this is mostly been very positive for me as the resulting interactions are due to people feeling comfortable with me as opposed to being hit on. I have tried to use this advantage to futher help my patients when it comes to their health.
Aww, the Mona dent in the couch makes me think of her.
Besides I appreciate this video very much for it's nuanced look at the impact of looks on people's lives. Extremely interesting!
I had such complex feelings of guilt about my beauty when i was young. I might have been peculiarly sensitive, or maybe it was because my Mother was verbally abusive. But i never allowed myself to use my pretty privilege. To do so felt taboo, shameful and gross. I'd deliberately date people I wasn't attracted to, refuse job opportunities and help, dismiss compliments, dismiss acts of charity when i needed it. I always liked being glamorous but felf like i couldn't wear the clothes or makeup i wanted to because I'd get such a negative reaction from people. It felt like people were constantly scrutinising my every move and looking to viciously latch onto any imperfection with their teeth. At 30 I'm happier and i have more freedom. I can wear dresses and red lipstick without snide comments and so many mean looks. Maybe my looks haven't dwindled that much and that's more to do with maturity. If you're glamorous and 22 people think you're conceited, arrogant, all sorts of horrible things. If you're glamorous at 30 or 40 people think you're powerful. It's like people think I've 'earned' the right or something.
This video was fascinating. I absolutely will attest to a lot of social and professional success due to looks. It feels wrong to even discuss the negative side of it- there has been a lot of lack of self worth outside of my looks and feeling that is the only thing i have to offer. Even now, after building a successful business in my 20s and employing 30+ people, there is sooo much internal self attack on the only reason people like me is the way i look (years of trauma as a teenager and grooming related to looks), and that i downplay my success from my efforts because of it. My negative self talk is related to nobody actually sees value in me outside of how i look. So i can be very critical of myself, though the anxiety of people seeing me not my 'best' causes me to work very hard to upkeep my appearance and work towards looking better, all the while with a hyper-critical eye upon my success being attributed to the way i look. And no, i dont think im some super model-years as a teenager and young 20s with my appearance being hyper focused on makes me swing from feeling confident to self loathing.
All this to say, pretty privilege is absolutely 100% real, but there are some perhaps unexpected consequences tied to self worth and potential hyperfixation on 'keeping it up'.
Slight trauma dump lol sry
I went through something similar. I got two jaw surgeries and it did affect how people treated me. However I feel my confidence is being crucified more now due to the new look. I no longer have a chubby face that looked less intimidating but now people view me as a potential mean girl when the confidence allowed me to just be more me.
Excellent vidéo! ❤
Very informative, great to share this point of view! Make more videos about privilege VS oppression/disadvantage!
Complaining about being attractive is a lot like complaining about being rich. It's a real human condition with genuine downsides.
But I ain't gonna turn down $1 billion. It still beats being poor, objectively.
Edit: Although willing to agree standing out too much can be a disadvantage in some cases. And both men and women who are extremely attractive may be judged as less intelligent. But they still tend to get opportunities to prove others wrong. After all how many Hollywood movies are constantly reminding people you can be pretty and smart. Plus since almost everyone in Hollywood is super attractive everyone can picture a super attractive anything. But an ugly female CEO? How will she sell product?
This but with skinny. And talent. The way people treat Adele boils my blood because you can pretty much be the best (or the only good) voice of the 2010s and people still will be fixated on your fat body. When she finally lost weight people were like "yay! She did it for herself!" and then proceeded to ignore her because she's not relevant anymore 🤦♀️
@@missnoneofyourbusiness People need to relearn how to divorce a person from their art/product. If someone makes good music, I’ll listen to them. If someone makes good chicken sandwiches, I’ll eat them. Is Banksy a serial killer? Probably not, but that shouldn’t affect whether or not you think his art is good.
Great video, but your question of the weak answer was perfection. I hope that makes its way to other platforms (and TH-cam shorts) as its own self-contained tidbit
a few things here: on those height statistics, correlation is not causation. poor health and poverty may be the cause of shortness, not the outcome. height has major ties to nutrition in early life. additionally, those statistics show that height has a much smaller impact than things like race or gender do. i simply don't think beauty can or should be viewed through the same political lens as other socioeconomic factors. also, beauty is much more of a choice for most people than they realize. i've been all over the attractiveness spectrum, but because i did notice the way i was treated changed based on how conventionally attractive i looked, i made that a priority. simply staying in shape by working out & eating healthy (lifestyle choices for *most* people), and putting effort into fashion and beauty routines, allotting some of my budget toward those things, has greatly improved my life. and yes, i did this because i knew about various psychological studies done which showed most people have a bias toward beauty, and assume that beautiful people are also kinder and smarter. i think people should stop complaining about this one and do something about it because our society has bigger fish to fry. there are also downsides that come along with being attractive, like the jealousy i experience from other women which can make them want to go out of their way to mess my life up, and being harassed/groped a lot more frequently by men. i have also definitely experienced the workplace outcomes you talk about here, and it did serious damage to my life. i didn't deserve that. however, the pros outweigh the cons and i'm gonna stay hot.
Something that is missing in this analysis is whether height is a LEADING or LAGGING indicator of success. What do I mean by that? Populations where men and women are on average taller is due to good standards of healthcare, sanitation, nutrition, access to sports / exercise. People who have access to these from childhood are of course more likely to become CEOs, leaders, etc. It's not because of their height but because they started life with a leg up in the socioeconomic ladder. Because height cannot be changed post ~25 years old it clearly indicates that our childhood is one of the most profound indicators of success (and all babies are more or less the same height when born but they can have wildly different upbringings). if you watch Malena with monica belluci you will know she was ostracized from society because of her beauty (other women were threatened)
Very good points.
Would really appreciate it if your videos could have time stamps to make the video even more accessible. I really enjoy your content, looking forward to more sociological critiques in your videos to come.
you made it to a million subscribers 🎉
From what I’ve gathered i fall into the very attractive category (getting compliments in public from strangers, wide variety in the dating pool etc) and even though it does have its perks it definitely has its drawbacks. I work in a very male dominated industry and ive had to prove my worth twice as much compared to my peers, as well as not being taken seriously or the assumption I have what I have because of a boyfriend or being attractive. Ive also learnt that since beauty does fade it’s important to have other skills to lean on like confidence, people skills and being funny. Can’t complain but it does have its drawbacks
I would also add that being attractive is sometimes a function of your wealth. Looking young, thin, and healthy comes from lack of chronic stress, having healthcare, and having the money/time to exercise/eat well. People who had food security as children tend to grow taller and be more emotionally stable. Being able to look pretty also is related to having time/money to afford makeup, flattering clothing, getting your hair done, etc.
I come from an East Asian culture, and looks matter greatly, whether one likes it or not. And beauty standards are narrower than in the West and unforgiving. Basically, there's only 1 look for women. When applying to jobs (especially white collar jobs associated with higher average pay, prestige, and less physical labor than blue collar jobs), it is expected to attach a photo of your face to your job application. This is not random. Judging based on looks is part of who gets the interview and who does not. I'd say pretty privilege is more an accepted fact of life here than in the US, because it's (glaringly) visible in everyday life (whether you're at school, work, social gatherings, receiving any services, etc.). Of course, morally that's not right and we know that, but in reality, people use pretty privilege, because survival is the name of the game. To the extent where going under the knife has become normalized. But interestingly, my culture tends to be discrete about invasive beauty interventions and tries to play it off as natural.
For me personally, I'd say I was born with looks somewhere in the middle of the spectrum. I recognize I was born with double eyelids, but that is balanced out by my short height (which is something I was bullied for...I would later find out leg lengthening enhancements exist...quite gruesome, but beauty is pain). They say I have big eyes too, but hate my square jaw (which is also something I was bullied for...it's the V-shaped jawline that's valued...and yes, jaw-shaving surgery exists). And surgery is for those who can afford it. To me, the abundance in plastic surgery, beauty clinics is enough proof that people (not just women, but men too) would be willing to risk it to be prettier or perceived as more attractive (because there are benefits on the other side). And you could say the folks in my culture are fixated on anti-aging (like to the extreme), because they know looks matter and aging might take away benefits of pretty privilege.
I'm not saying it's 100% rainbows and butterflies if one benefits from pretty privilege. But on average, there is definitely more sympathy for the pretty than the ugly. Unfortunately, uglier people are ignored and don't get listened to at all, kind or not. In cinema, the pretty people always play good guys and are in the main roles, compared to the less prettier people (side roles, villains). So there's that reinforcement. And less likely to be in the higher social positions or promoted. That's my take on it. With my generation though, I see the status quo is slowly changing, which I'm very okay with. It takes guts to challenge the status quo.