@@Peekaboo-Kitty Well half of it isn’t a joke because the bible was written by unknown authors who weren’t even around Jesus, spoke a different language, were illiterate and the bible was changed as peoples belief changed.
I love Bart Ehrman. He is so dedicated to the 1st century stories of the gospels as being, just stories. I also agree with AronRa about the silliness of Jesus being the Son of God... With only a 1st century knowledge of, well everything. The two of you together is just a good time. Thank you Aron, and I'm loving all the posts.
@@matimus100 And you are incredibly childish to the point of being nothing more than a parody of yourself, okay not my business but thanks for letting everybody know lol. In all seriousness though why did people saying they love something trigger you so much that you're dropping your childish comments in multiple comment threads? Are you okay? Because you don't seem like you're ok.
aaahhh yes the ol' metaphor not literal because i said so. every claim of non literalism is admission of the falsity not an indication of authenticity. and stop with the whole "g-whiz wuz real" nonsense.
I always thought the cursed fig tree story came of really counter productive. Why not cause it to bloom and bear? Dr. Ehrman makes it so clear what's going on. Really interesting, thank~you.
That whole fig tree story / cleansing of the temple is obviously a literary device used in the ancient world to convey a story easily remembered. The whole Mark comes across as a play write in the styling of Homer.
That's because they were likely written by students in Alexandria who trained by writing in the style of Homer. Mark borrows from The Odyssey. Christians burned Alexandria for a reason.
In the Revelation to John (20:7-10), the names Gog and Magog are applied to the evil forces that will join with Satan in the great struggle at the end of time. After Satan has been bound and chained for 1,000 years, he will be released and will rise up against God; he will go forth and deceive the nations of the world-Gog and Magog-gathering them together in great numbers to attack the saints and Jerusalem, the city God loves. God will send fire from heaven to destroy them and will then preside over the Last Judgment.
One of the most important legends associated with Gog and Magog was that of Alexander’s Gate, said to have been built by Alexander the Great to imprison these uncivilized and barbaric people until the end of time.
They copy fairytales from ancient Greek mythology not only the writing style... This fairytale exists in Quran also who copy the bible and the Torah 🤣🤣🤣
Why can't people grasp that if you put the gospels in the order they were written, there is a clear and obvious "fan-fic" evolution of jesus? In Mark he's just a man picked by god for a job like Moses or Noah, but through the others he get grander and more superhuman. By John the church has lost its grip on reality by way of political power and jesus is OP to the point of ridiculousness. Think about how wacky Batman and Superman comics became later in their intial runs into the silver and bronze age. Same thing. The fact that jesus isn't isn't in spandex doesn't hide the fact he's just a superhero from another age.
Even according to the myth, Jesús didn't die for anyone's sins. At best, he spent a couple of days dead. Or, as I like to put it, Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.
The anonymous Gospel of Mark appeared long after Jesus never existed. The Son of Yahweh never wrote anything to prove he ever existed or that he was the son of a god. This is pretty sloppy work for a demigod who wants his creations to notice that he existed and to obey his commands.
When cult leaders are looking for minions, the test is how little the recruit questions absurdities. If you have a person who does not question the jeebus is god thing, you have a perfect mark.
You are taking what Jesus says about the ritualistic washing of hands for religious purification and omit that he was correcting the hypocrisy of outward religious observance when they were not correcting the corruption in their hearts which was more important. Good thing you have a scholar to give clarification on ancient realities.
I'm so glad to see that Aron finally looked at the consensus opinion on mythicism. The consensus is more than enough to bury Christianity. Mythicism just opens up a bunch of irrelevant and distracting side arguments that Christians can actually win.
There was never a time when I didn't look at the consensus, and I am still a mythicist, just not quite the same as some others. I am still convinced that if we had a tardis and an Aramaic-speaking guide, that we would either never find anyone we recognize as Jesus, or we would find too many of them, and that none of them would recognize themselves as the Jesus we're looking for.
Agree 100%. The evidence available for the existence of THE Jesus, even as a mere human, is meager and very flimsy. Meanwhile, there's tons of evidence pointing toward the conclusion that his story was entirely fabricated.
Why do we waste so much time on this shit? We could also talk about how Suoerman's powers work, and if kryptonite has the "essence" of his home world. It's all the same.
I'm a sceptic on the "Kent thesis". Did Clark Kent really exist? Did the original manuscripts elude to Superman having a secret identity? Or was this added by scribes just before the release of the first comic books? I think a debate on that is needed
Someone told me Jesus can’t be the messiah because he called John The Baptist Elijah, but John denied that claim and Jesus continued to call him Elijah later. So either Jesus lied, or well, Jesus lied 🤣 because supposedly “God himself” said he would come in the form of Elijah, and he didn’t. So I don’t know how a Christian can reconcile that. With that being said. I like Jesus as a character. Even if he lied about being the Messiah. He spoke out against Israel he knew what the Talmud and everything said and he spoke out against it and died. He’s an anti establishment figure. I support that.
What about Hatun Tash ? Did you hear about that ? You had the muslims saying it was a setup because she wouldn’t be in the shape she was in and the jihadi was some actor.
The idea of “ messiah “ is similar to Muslims idea of “ Mahdi “ ! The promised one ! The savior of humanity ! I think humans should wake up and save themselves .!
I thought the same when reading Mark for my Early Christianity class. For an analogy see Psalm 89:26-27 "He [David] shall cry to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation!’ I [Yahweh] will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth." (NRSVUE)
@@rembrandt972ify Spot on. As if the writers, whoever they may have been, considered themselves intertwined in a mutual pissing contest regarding the potency of their protagonist in particular.
Prof should know that lifelong atheists, like yours truly, find his efforts much MUCH more interesting & fascinating than the tired old drivel in the "holy" texts.
It really makes the fig story so much less petty with this context, and I can't believe that there was never a time in my church years that the connection was made.
The Temple was a place of business you could conduct your business in the court of gentiles. And that or the temple was open to everybody Jew and non-Jew alike.
Jesus keeps with the theme of God constantly making it easy for sinners to get away with sin (they usually do not because humans in the Bible have the intelligence of goldfish), then making token punishments for sin, then just dunking on the innocent randomly cause God hates them. That is every story with God in it in the Bible. Making it the perfect episodic sitcom. Whatever Jesus is, he knows what the Bible is about and what dear old Dad wants of him.
6:40 The Bible does not have a unified viewpoint of "easy believe-ism" as you imply. Mark's point is, in fact, directly counter to this. Mark says that to follow Jesus, you must sell all you have and probably be martyred.
@@be1tube You know the point of sell all you have is to follow Jesus? You aren’t selling your possessions from the good of your heart. Besides, sitcoms often have logical inconsistencies with minor plot points. It’s on brand.
@@be1tube No one has any idea they will be martyred and most of them aren’t in the Bible. Besides remember the humans in the Bible have the intelligence of goldfish? Real life dogs are more intelligent than them by a long shot. You think a dog can contemplate martyrdom effectively?
It is just this that caused the entire event that got me kicked out of the catholic cult. One day as I was forced into a debate with some cult members that I ask; "Have you actually read your own book?" I was told 'It doesn't matter if we have or not it matters that you are wrong, that is all and we must make (note the wording) you believe in the truth!' I was and still do think that this is a case of 'fake it till you make it.' I have always wondered if the jesus character was not made up after the 'death on the cross' of several different cult leaders were 'taken care of' by the Romans for the Jews. I ask because, and I am by far no historian, or other religious studier, was this religion these people and the cast of characters from the wholly fable book made up just to control; the masses? Just asking, to me it is. Peace
@@Lerian_V I believe it was a means to control those gullible to be fooled, it did not matter what they were called, Roman, Jew, Egyption ... as I said Then and Now
Oh well. Just get out your rosary. Say a few hail Marys, couple our fathers, sprinkle some holy water on you screen. Repeat.."ohhh feeliemebonybelly. Dominics vobiscum.. Benny sellis all of his dominos...amen. You're good
He believes parts of it in the way you might believe parts of any document in ancient history through the lens of a historian. Most of what he finds “wrong” are the ways we as modern people interpret it through the context of modern sensibilities and framing. Otherwise it’s a fascinating glimpse into the way ancient peoples viewed parts of the world.
Aron, I think you may differ from Prof. Ehrman in belief that Jesus was a 'somebody' in his time. I think a composite, like most of the bible, of a few sort of fanatical rabbis, so common then, in occupied Israel. I agree that the God figures in the Bible, literally 'evolve' (I love throwing that in, especially to 'evangenitals' lol!) throughout the texts. And, I also believe, some were chosen, when codified the bible, and bits changed, due to agendas at the time. But even Paul/ Saul changed a lot, to lure in non jews. They really should be paulines, as I said before! One of the atheist channels, I forgot who, GMS Drew? Read a part of, of the gospel of Judas, maybe? In it, of course, he's the hero, knows Jesus is, if not from another planet, 'somewhere' alien, and it, or maybe another non canonical, talked about the disciples having to escort a beautiful young man/boy, dressed in an acolyte, (thin, fine white cloth) robe, to jesus' room, carry in a tub, fill it, while Jesus and the boy were laying on a pallet bed, with Jesus counseling the youngster! Then had to hang around waiting for days for them to emerge! This is a real gospel! There were many, real weird ones, not chosen. I'm surprised they still exist! Now, I know in early hebrew text, even after the law about sex with a man, which I've heard was worded more like weird incest law, the jews still won best harvest, etc. And were rewarded, and happily, with temple prostitutes, male and female, well versed in the ways of pleasure! So, that homosexuality law was not cut and dried as it came to be! OK, drugs making me ramble! Loved this, all you do. Would really love, though it would be almost impossible to get through, how you guys are, but for you guys to get, and read!, some of the non canonical stuff, I've heard we ended with one of the mildest revelations! Good God, (nope), but those others must truly be wack! 👍💙💖🥰✌
3:55 "It's an ancient story" is it supposed to be fiction or non-fiction? If Jesus was supposed to be God and God was all knowing, all powerful, all present, he sure was pretty stupid by todays standards, judging by what the people wrote. How could someone who was obviously very ignorant make a planet in 6 days and design all the things that lived on it? He was so good at designing animals and plants, 99% of them are extinct. I wouldn't trust him to design a teapot. Well, if God was supposed to be super smart and this is what he can do, how stupid are we? To know that, go to the Bible States, they have the worst educational standards in the US..
"is it supposed to be fiction or non-fiction?" it was supposed to be a story firth and foremost, the designation of "fiction" didn't exist by this time period yet, but by today's vocabulary it could be considered fantastic historical fiction or something
@@maxpis4412 I don't care whether they used the term fiction or non-fiction - we can if we wish. One means true and the other means made-up. Which one was it? "fantastical historical fiction or something" is a piss poor answer. I think you are trying to say "fiction", but cant bring yourself to say the bible is a made-up story.
@@csjrogerson2377 oh no, it is a made-up story, at least partially, what I'm trying to say is that it is not some artist's expression and world building, because again, fiction as a concept, as in deliberately writing non-existent events purely as a form of expression, wasn't an idea that existed at the time. Bible is a collection of pure myth, legend, and partially also history as corroborated by other ancient sources, usually from the non-Pentatuch Old Testament
@@scambammer6102 I mean in a sense of an explanatory story, it is supposed to explain their people's origins, justify existing laws as well as answer some more fundamental questions of existence, to the best of their ability based on cultural mythos which accumulate such stories over time (like every civilization does, frankly), in case of the Old Testament probably written down mostly between 9th and 6th centuries BC
As far as I'm concerned if you existed with nothing more than a first-century Galilean cult leader. He most definitely wasn't an American considering he would have had no knowledge of the existence of the North American. continent
@@AronRa Bernardo Kastrup is a former worker at CERN and currently a philosopher of mind, who argues that consciousness is the only thing that exists, and that the inanimate universe is a 2nd person perspective of consciousness (just like a person's perceptions of a functioning brain are the 2nd person perspective of consciousness). He argues that the consciousness of living things are dissociated from the consciousness represented by the inanimate universe. He argues for this position not only with philosophy, but also neuroscience and physics. By arguing that consciousness is the only thing that exists, he avoids the _hard problem of consciousness,_ and solves the _mind-body problem._ This consciousness, which is represented by the universe, would basically be God, and there's *no* need to appeal to divine intervention or intelligent design in Bernardo's philosophy. Bernardo still believes in evolution, naturalism, and all of that good stuff. There's a lecture by him here. The video is long, but most of it is Q&A. You just need to watch about 35 minutes. It might seem lazy by me to simply refer to a video, but I can't explain his idea anyway nearly as well as Bernardo can. th-cam.com/video/AF2uTbmHCMA/w-d-xo.html&feature=shares&t=337 Bernardo has a *discussion* with an atheist here, if you're interested in that instead. th-cam.com/video/MS43g_KgKOs/w-d-xo.html&feature=shares He has written _extensively_ on the subject. I recommend the following papers (both of which have been printed in one of his books, *The Idea of the World* ) *An Ontological Solution to the Mind-Body Problem* www.mdpi.com/2409-9287/2/2/10 *On the Plausibility of Idealism: Refuting Criticisms* sciendo.com/article/10.2478/disp-2017-0025 I'm not used to explaining ideas on the internet, but hopefully I conveyed the gist of it well enough. *Thanks for taking the time to read this, Aron!* I like listening to your stuff. 🙏😀
@@SebastianLundh1988 ill refute that nonsense. The mind is part of the body, and consciousness is an emergent property of biology. Unless he has an example of consciousness absent biology, its completely stupid gibberish.
@@tshred666 the nuance that Jesus didn't know you should wash your hands before you eat? Why wouldn't a divine being know that and tell his people? That would be a huge advantage and would make Christians thrive, but Jesus was just a human and the Bible is an ancient story so he made a mistake, that is what logically follows.
Aron seems to be genuinely lacking in knowledge of that which he opposes. And before anyone thinks that I’m an apologist trying to discredit Aron, I am not. Take for instance Derek of Myth Vision Podcast, at least he knows what the Bible is attempting to say. Dr. Ehrman repeatedly corrects Aron’s position with proper interpretation of the Bible. If one wishes to argue against something, they should at least take the time to properly study that which they have issue with.
New drinking game…slam one back every time Bart breaks out in a weird, slightly maniacal laugh for no (to outside observers at least) discernible reason. Enjoy!
Ehrman either disregards or avoids the fact that the belief in and even acceptance of the existence of supernatural and occult elements was far more dominant in the ancient worldviews when hardly any understanding of natural phenomena or the true causality between actions, reactions and the results thereof prevailed in the local area where the early writings of scripture in particular was initiated. Everything was dedicated either unmonitored magic or conceived beings and certain individuals claiming to manage powers alike. As a perceived norm at the time the writers would've absolutely incorporated such imaginary incantation wielders alike, as proven in any anecdote based prose produced during the time being, pick any culture.
@@patriklindholm7576 you’re a shite writer. The goal isn’t to use the most long words possible. And your grammar is laughable. I’m a professional writer. You aren’t.
Bart, a few more moments and I think you would have persuaded mr. Ra into becoming a Christian. He is very smart but did not have the context that you have.
I like the Messiah contradiction portion more because it makes me think in modern terms of what was expected by the Jews. All I can picture is the Anglo Jesus dressed like Rambo with a machine gun and a red sweatband with the star of David on it handing out ass whoopings like a action film star while showing an occasional softer side. This makes me think of a Movie trailer for THE REAL Messiah movie. In world full of Ignorant sheep herders One man leads his army of followers against the Roman Empire and Makes them Pray to the one true god. This summer Aaron Taylor-Johnson is The real Messiah.
Different levels of divine 😂, is there a negative divine? Will god ever level up? Is there a potion we can take to temporarily increase our divineness? DnD players need to know these things
I was asked to not come back to a Bible study because I asked questions and then I had the audacity to question the answers. I guess I just wasn't taking it seriously..... I guess.
I love you Bart Ehrman but I definitely disagree with your statement about Mark not presenting Jesus as divine. I just got done listening to the entire book of Mark (except for the bogus ending) at 2.0 speed and it points to the idea of Jesus being God all over the place. He can forgive sins. Like it is asked, "Who can forgive sins except for God alone". This is not why Jesus rebuked what they were thinking in their hearts (I don't think). That's just one example. The are examples all over the place. I challenge everyone to listen to book of the Mark at 2.0 speed with the question in mind: Does Mark present Jesus as divine?
Also, I think Jesus asked the rich man why he called him good because Jesus was asking the man if he was acknowledging Jesus as God. Jesus never said he was not good. Clearly Jesus would at the very least claim to be good. Yet Jesus said no one is good except God alone, again equating himself with God.
I think Bart’s point is that he is ‘divine’ but not God. If you read simply Mark without the context of the other gospels it would be hard to make the case he is literally God on Earth. He’s more like a servant of God (but a valuable one hence Son of God)
never make any sense to me for anyone who's even just remotely familiar with the roman empire history and it's political machinations... the jews were literal nobody to rome, nobody in the upper echelon of roman politics would even consider the possibility to invent a jewish religion, and for what, lol.
@@Napoleonic_S for the purpose of pacifying the Jewish rebellions popping up in the Roman Empire during the Roman Jewish War. Rome conquered Judea but the Jews refused to acknowledge the Caesar as divine, so Rome had bitten off more than they could chew and it was a real problem for them actually. Atwill's analysis is brilliant if nothing else but I also find it to be the most persuasive of any bible provenance hypothesis I've ever heard.
@@joefization still nonsense though, the jews were not the only group of people who did that... also keep in mind that the whole inventing religions for population control scheme is only something that came into public consciousness after the enlightenment era, ancient people see reality differently, for them the gods were absolutely real, it would be considered something of a sacrilege to completely invent new divinities to fool others, one would risk angering the gods (whoever they are) for that, and the romans being superstitious people as well would not dare to think that way. I just don't think the causation of such conspiracy acceptable given what we know about how ancient people see the gods, the supernatural and religions..
@@Napoleonic_S just because the Romans were generally superstitious dosen't mean the leaders were. The aristocracy was vain, pompous, sadistic and ambitious. Organized religion has been a product made for the masses, not for the elite who considered themselves their masters. Atwill provides evidence that actually makes sense of the bible in a coherent way. What other theory can do that? Have you read Caesar's Messiah? I highly recommend it.
I didn't do most of the talking. But what is important to me is, when I have an impression that I think is right, check that with the experts to see how well-supported it is. Sometimes that requires explanation.
"And we know it's all true because we made it up ourselves."
LOL! Good one! 🤣
@@Peekaboo-Kitty Well half of it isn’t a joke because the bible was written by unknown authors who weren’t even around Jesus, spoke a different language, were illiterate and the bible was changed as peoples belief changed.
"What's your source?"
"My source is, I made it the fuck up!"
@@SuperZergMan
"What's your source?"
"Trust me, bro'."
I love Bart Ehrman. He is so dedicated to the 1st century stories of the gospels as being, just stories.
I also agree with AronRa about the silliness of Jesus being the Son of God... With only a 1st century knowledge of, well everything.
The two of you together is just a good time. Thank you Aron, and I'm loving all the posts.
You're loving easy
Aron doing the almost daily uploads lately....I love it!
Love?
@@matimus100 yes lol
@@DPK365 wow you give your love away easy and to another man
Ok not my business thanks for letting everybody know.
@@matimus100 And you are incredibly childish to the point of being nothing more than a parody of yourself, okay not my business but thanks for letting everybody know lol. In all seriousness though why did people saying they love something trigger you so much that you're dropping your childish comments in multiple comment threads? Are you okay? Because you don't seem like you're ok.
@@matimus100 are you an azhole?
6:46 You know Aron is a real Godzilla fan when his ringtone is Godzilla's roar.
Mad respect for Dr Ehrman 👍
Nope mad respect is not given
When Jesus prayed as a child, did his mother tell him to stop talking to himself?
Thank you for the laugh! That was hilarious. 🤣🤣🤣
aaahhh yes the ol' metaphor not literal because i said so. every claim of non literalism is admission of the falsity not an indication of authenticity. and stop with the whole "g-whiz wuz real" nonsense.
Is this just a segment of a longer discussion?
So hope there's more to come!
Aaron never holds back , just pure facts delivered without bias or self hate
*Aron
He’s been very biased in the past.
What's with his blue beard?
@@LisaAnn777 toilet duck 🦆
@@Evolutionistcrybaby what tf is a toilet duck?
I always thought the cursed fig tree story came of really counter productive. Why not cause it to bloom and bear? Dr. Ehrman makes it so clear what's going on. Really interesting, thank~you.
I think his take on that is questionable. If it's an analogy for the temple, it is a very weak one.
@@scambammer6102
Ancient writers can make dumb analogies too, I'd imagine..
@@Dr_Wrong sure, but god shouldn't
@@scambammer6102
Oh, I get it..
AronRa - spot on. 🥰
That whole fig tree story / cleansing of the temple is obviously a literary device used in the ancient world to convey a story easily remembered. The whole Mark comes across as a play write in the styling of Homer.
That's because they were likely written by students in Alexandria who trained by writing in the style of Homer. Mark borrows from The Odyssey. Christians burned Alexandria for a reason.
Someone, I think it was Kenneth Humphreys, said that the gospels are written like a classic Greek play.
In the Revelation to John (20:7-10), the names Gog and Magog are applied to the evil forces that will join with Satan in the great struggle at the end of time. After Satan has been bound and chained for 1,000 years, he will be released and will rise up against God; he will go forth and deceive the nations of the world-Gog and Magog-gathering them together in great numbers to attack the saints and Jerusalem, the city God loves. God will send fire from heaven to destroy them and will then preside over the Last Judgment.
One of the most important legends associated with Gog and Magog was that of Alexander’s Gate, said to have been built by Alexander the Great to imprison these uncivilized and barbaric people until the end of time.
They copy fairytales from ancient Greek mythology not only the writing style... This fairytale exists in Quran also who copy the bible and the Torah 🤣🤣🤣
I just finished his course on Wondrium on How Jesus Became God. Very informative and troubling for the believer.
Ha ha ha. Oh boy.
The messiah is already known to be God in the Torah before he was born.
Genesis 4:1, Psalm 2, Psalm 72, Isaiah 45, Micah 5:2.
Troubling how?
@@isaakleillhikar8311
The Torah is only the first five books of the Bible, meaning:
-Psalm 2, Psalm 72, Isaiah 45, Micah 5:2-
@@isaakleillhikar8311 Micah 5:2 was talking about 'ruler of israel' was talking about Netanyahu
Mark means metal alliance royal knight.
Why can't people grasp that if you put the gospels in the order they were written, there is a clear and obvious "fan-fic" evolution of jesus? In Mark he's just a man picked by god for a job like Moses or Noah, but through the others he get grander and more superhuman. By John the church has lost its grip on reality by way of political power and jesus is OP to the point of ridiculousness. Think about how wacky Batman and Superman comics became later in their intial runs into the silver and bronze age. Same thing. The fact that jesus isn't isn't in spandex doesn't hide the fact he's just a superhero from another age.
putting mark first would definitely be a problem for the snake oil peddlers
Even according to the myth, Jesús didn't die for anyone's sins. At best, he spent a couple of days dead. Or, as I like to put it, Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins.
well the myth is that he died and then came back to life. so he did die, just not for very long
I've been following Bart and Aron for years, both together is even better.
The anonymous Gospel of Mark appeared long after Jesus never existed.
The Son of Yahweh never wrote anything to prove he ever existed or that he was the son of a god.
This is pretty sloppy work for a demigod who wants his creations to notice that he existed and to obey his commands.
I love Barts answers over all ...very honest critic.
You love easy
@@matimus100 Why is it a bad thing to easily enjoy things on a deep level? Are you okay? Because you don't seem like you're ok.
@@emoryogglethorp8180 if they had a point, they would have made it already
@@emoryogglethorp8180 He repeats the same thing all over. No imagination, it seems…
Someone is lonely for love.. 😥
When cult leaders are looking for minions, the test is how little the recruit questions absurdities. If you have a person who does not question the jeebus is god thing, you have a perfect mark.
the gospel of mark lol
It's more nefarious than a cult. It's parents feeding it to kids who don't have the capacity for critical thinking.
You are taking what Jesus says about the ritualistic washing of hands for religious purification and omit that he was correcting the hypocrisy of outward religious observance when they were not correcting the corruption in their hearts which was more important. Good thing you have a scholar to give clarification on ancient realities.
I'm so glad to see that Aron finally looked at the consensus opinion on mythicism. The consensus is more than enough to bury Christianity.
Mythicism just opens up a bunch of irrelevant and distracting side arguments that Christians can actually win.
There was never a time when I didn't look at the consensus, and I am still a mythicist, just not quite the same as some others. I am still convinced that if we had a tardis and an Aramaic-speaking guide, that we would either never find anyone we recognize as Jesus, or we would find too many of them, and that none of them would recognize themselves as the Jesus we're looking for.
Agree 100%.
The evidence available for the existence of THE Jesus, even as a mere human, is meager and very flimsy.
Meanwhile, there's tons of evidence pointing toward the conclusion that his story was entirely fabricated.
Why do we waste so much time on this shit?
We could also talk about how Suoerman's powers work, and if kryptonite has the "essence" of his home world. It's all the same.
I know right?
I'm a sceptic on the "Kent thesis". Did Clark Kent really exist? Did the original manuscripts elude to Superman having a secret identity? Or was this added by scribes just before the release of the first comic books? I think a debate on that is needed
I just introduced Dr Ehrman to a Christian that I was having a great conversation with. This is great!
Aron i love what you have done with your beard and mo, have been thinking of doing mine in henna and calling it "bad timing"
Love? Never trust a hippy
Careful Dave.. someone is going to smoke your ass
@@matimus100 if god was real it would have better trolls
I was gonna say, I finally think one of his fation things are good.
Oh thats exciting. Thanks for this
Interesting that in the opening of Mark he has Jesus telling people to believe in the Gospel when it hasn't been written yet.
Someone told me Jesus can’t be the messiah because he called John The Baptist Elijah, but John denied that claim and Jesus continued to call him Elijah later. So either Jesus lied, or well, Jesus lied 🤣 because supposedly “God himself” said he would come in the form of Elijah, and he didn’t.
So I don’t know how a Christian can reconcile that.
With that being said.
I like Jesus as a character. Even if he lied about being the Messiah. He spoke out against Israel he knew what the Talmud and everything said and he spoke out against it and died. He’s an anti establishment figure. I support that.
he's also pro-slavery and supports child murder though
Mark 16:18 is my favorite verse.
It says the magic believers can drink poison.
I often ask them to drink Drano and prove it.
What about Hatun Tash ? Did you hear about that ? You had the muslims saying it was a setup because she wouldn’t be in the shape she was in and the jihadi was some actor.
@@isaakleillhikar8311 WTF are you babbling about?
@@devilmonkey427 th-cam.com/video/1RnTMLmCA44/w-d-xo.html
@@devilmonkey427 i read that and I had the same reaction as you. Although ik of Hatun Tush. She's a Christian evangelist.
I heard that Godzilla ring tone and started looking to see where my phone was
The idea of “ messiah “ is similar to Muslims idea of “ Mahdi “ !
The promised one !
The savior of humanity !
I think humans should wake up and save themselves .!
I always thought the jebus in Mark was just an ordinary human but the invisible sky wizard sort of adopted him.
He seemed to evolve in the Biblical gospels. A philosopher in Mark, a stage magician in Luke and Matthew and Superman in John.
I thought the same when reading Mark for my Early Christianity class. For an analogy see Psalm 89:26-27 "He [David] shall cry to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation!’ I [Yahweh] will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth." (NRSVUE)
Yep. Jesus was chosen as a potential messiah/adopted son of god at his baptism into John end of the world cult.
@@rembrandt972ify Spot on. As if the writers, whoever they may have been, considered themselves intertwined in a mutual pissing contest regarding the potency of their protagonist in particular.
far from an ordinary human. He is depicted performing miracles and called the son of god
I really enjoyed this, and a nice length video too not too long as i still have multiple windows open with your other videos lately.
The whole story is just made up as far as I can tell - there is simply to much detail of what was said - who the bleep was keeping track?!
Great video!
Prof should know that lifelong atheists, like yours truly, find his efforts much MUCH more interesting & fascinating than the tired old drivel in the "holy" texts.
9:15 I learned something there! had no idea those stories were connected!
Its a literary device used by ancient scribes and playwrights to convey an easily remembered message.
@@ETERNALCYCLES has it got a [formal] name?
@@ErrantMasa parabole
@@ETERNALCYCLES ah, thank you! 🙂
It really makes the fig story so much less petty with this context, and I can't believe that there was never a time in my church years that the connection was made.
This was too short. Is this a clip of a full length conversation?
The Temple was a place of business you could conduct your business in the court of gentiles. And that or the temple was open to everybody Jew and non-Jew alike.
right so jebus had a fit over perfectly normal legal activity
Two of my favourite speakers.
Sorry fella but youve missed it. Believe. Also on the fig tree, it had no flowers and therefor wouldnt’t have produced fruit.
The father son and holy spirit sounds like polytheism to me?
and all the angels, demons, prophets, saints, monotheism my az.
No, they’re several people of the same God.
@@isaakleillhikar8311 religion: getting people to "believe" gibberish for 5,000+ years.
Jesus keeps with the theme of God constantly making it easy for sinners to get away with sin (they usually do not because humans in the Bible have the intelligence of goldfish), then making token punishments for sin, then just dunking on the innocent randomly cause God hates them.
That is every story with God in it in the Bible. Making it the perfect episodic sitcom.
Whatever Jesus is, he knows what the Bible is about and what dear old Dad wants of him.
6:40 The Bible does not have a unified viewpoint of "easy believe-ism" as you imply. Mark's point is, in fact, directly counter to this. Mark says that to follow Jesus, you must sell all you have and probably be martyred.
@@be1tube You know the point of sell all you have is to follow Jesus? You aren’t selling your possessions from the good of your heart.
Besides, sitcoms often have logical inconsistencies with minor plot points. It’s on brand.
@@be1tube No one has any idea they will be martyred and most of them aren’t in the Bible.
Besides remember the humans in the Bible have the intelligence of goldfish? Real life dogs are more intelligent than them by a long shot.
You think a dog can contemplate martyrdom effectively?
@@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana Paul, Peter, and their successors such as Ignatius of Antioch did know they were going to be martyred.
@@Lerian_V When 🕰❓? While they can escape 🏃♂️/repent 🥺 convincingly.
And how the Hell 🔥🔥🔥 would you know that?
It is just this that caused the entire event that got me kicked out of the catholic cult. One day as I was forced into a debate with some cult members that I ask; "Have you actually read your own book?" I was told 'It doesn't matter if we have or not it matters that you are wrong, that is all and we must make (note the wording) you believe in the truth!' I was and still do think that this is a case of 'fake it till you make it.'
I have always wondered if the jesus character was not made up after the 'death on the cross' of several different cult leaders were 'taken care of' by the Romans for the Jews. I ask because, and I am by far no historian, or other religious studier, was this religion these people and the cast of characters from the wholly fable book made up just to control; the masses? Just asking, to me it is.
Peace
Control which masses? The Jews or the Romans? You didn't hear Bart say being a Christian in the early centuries meant persecution and death.
@@Lerian_V Yes ... Yes I did. I still believe the Wholly Fable Book is nothing more than a means to control the masses. Then and now.
@@pjosephlthewonder5082 You didn't answer my question. You repeated your earlier talking point.
@@Lerian_V I believe it was a means to control those gullible to be fooled, it did not matter what they were called, Roman, Jew, Egyption ... as I said Then and Now
In the first chapter of Mark Jesus is equated with the God of the old testament...
James Tabor has an interesting view on Mark that is well worth comparing to Bart's, if anyone is interested.
I would really enjoy sitting and talking with you Sir.. and to make it interesting we could partake in some cannabis.
I swear...I Just opened this and the like button was at 666! took a screen shot to prove it! 😄
Oh well. Just get out your rosary. Say a few hail Marys, couple our fathers, sprinkle some holy water on you screen. Repeat.."ohhh feeliemebonybelly. Dominics vobiscum.. Benny sellis all of his dominos...amen.
You're good
@@steveferguson698 Thanks.
"Liberal scholars inserted errors"
Yeah yeah. When all else fails, blame the big bad Libs.
7/11 was a part time job
These two are my heroes.
Are you a propaganda agent ? These are your heroes ?
I find it fascinating that Ehrman believes anything in the Bible when he says so much of it is wrong.
He believes parts of it in the way you might believe parts of any document in ancient history through the lens of a historian. Most of what he finds “wrong” are the ways we as modern people interpret it through the context of modern sensibilities and framing. Otherwise it’s a fascinating glimpse into the way ancient peoples viewed parts of the world.
Aron, I think you may differ from Prof. Ehrman in belief that Jesus was a 'somebody' in his time. I think a composite, like most of the bible, of a few sort of fanatical rabbis, so common then, in occupied Israel. I agree that the God figures in the Bible, literally 'evolve' (I love throwing that in, especially to 'evangenitals' lol!) throughout the texts. And, I also believe, some were chosen, when codified the bible, and bits changed, due to agendas at the time. But even Paul/ Saul changed a lot, to lure in non jews. They really should be paulines, as I said before! One of the atheist channels, I forgot who, GMS Drew? Read a part of, of the gospel of Judas, maybe? In it, of course, he's the hero, knows Jesus is, if not from another planet, 'somewhere' alien, and it, or maybe another non canonical, talked about the disciples having to escort a beautiful young man/boy, dressed in an acolyte, (thin, fine white cloth) robe, to jesus' room, carry in a tub, fill it, while Jesus and the boy were laying on a pallet bed, with Jesus counseling the youngster! Then had to hang around waiting for days for them to emerge! This is a real gospel! There were many, real weird ones, not chosen. I'm surprised they still exist! Now, I know in early hebrew text, even after the law about sex with a man, which I've heard was worded more like weird incest law, the jews still won best harvest, etc. And were rewarded, and happily, with temple prostitutes, male and female, well versed in the ways of pleasure! So, that homosexuality law was not cut and dried as it came to be! OK, drugs making me ramble! Loved this, all you do. Would really love, though it would be almost impossible to get through, how you guys are, but for you guys to get, and read!, some of the non canonical stuff, I've heard we ended with one of the mildest revelations! Good God, (nope), but those others must truly be wack! 👍💙💖🥰✌
Jesus clearly states he's not god at Matt 19...
Wow - amazing
Never understood the fig tree before now. Thanks Dr. Ehrman!
it makes jesus look like a moron and a jerk however you interpret it
@@scambammer6102 exactly! When I was a child I always felt sorry for the poor little tree who did nothing wrong.
@@youdeservethis You should have googled it. Catholic Answers has all the answers.
@@Lerian_V Thanks! I'll keep that in mind.
@@youdeservethis You're welcome. I didn't know Hedda is a real person's name until I looked it up and saw Saint Hedda of Wessex.
two disillusioned fundamentalists talking past one another
Why he do his beard blue? Looks cheep n like he fell into paint job drunk
I'm just here to try and hear the Godzilla ring tone
Aron was being very honest.
3:55 "It's an ancient story" is it supposed to be fiction or non-fiction? If Jesus was supposed to be God and God was all knowing, all powerful, all present, he sure was pretty stupid by todays standards, judging by what the people wrote. How could someone who was obviously very ignorant make a planet in 6 days and design all the things that lived on it? He was so good at designing animals and plants, 99% of them are extinct. I wouldn't trust him to design a teapot. Well, if God was supposed to be super smart and this is what he can do, how stupid are we? To know that, go to the Bible States, they have the worst educational standards in the US..
"is it supposed to be fiction or non-fiction?" it was supposed to be a story firth and foremost, the designation of "fiction" didn't exist by this time period yet, but by today's vocabulary it could be considered fantastic historical fiction or something
@@maxpis4412 I don't care whether they used the term fiction or non-fiction - we can if we wish. One means true and the other means made-up. Which one was it? "fantastical historical fiction or something" is a piss poor answer. I think you are trying to say "fiction", but cant bring yourself to say the bible is a made-up story.
@@csjrogerson2377 oh no, it is a made-up story, at least partially, what I'm trying to say is that it is not some artist's expression and world building, because again, fiction as a concept, as in deliberately writing non-existent events purely as a form of expression, wasn't an idea that existed at the time. Bible is a collection of pure myth, legend, and partially also history as corroborated by other ancient sources, usually from the non-Pentatuch Old Testament
@@maxpis4412 it was NOT supposed to be a story first. It is a religious text. It is supposed to be the word of god, declaring universal truths.
@@scambammer6102 I mean in a sense of an explanatory story, it is supposed to explain their people's origins, justify existing laws as well as answer some more fundamental questions of existence, to the best of their ability based on cultural mythos which accumulate such stories over time (like every civilization does, frankly), in case of the Old Testament probably written down mostly between 9th and 6th centuries BC
Nice. I took a bible class in college and we used the Ehrman text and I liked it so much I kept it and it is filed with the atheism section.
THANK YOU BOTH! REALLY THANK YOU
Does Jesus Christ have more than one church?
As far as I'm concerned if you existed with nothing more than a first-century Galilean cult leader. He most definitely wasn't an American considering he would have had no knowledge of the existence of the North American. continent
💣💥💥💥
Aron, could you please consider interviewing *Bernardo Kastrup* and talk about his take on God, the mind-body-problem, and consciousness?
Who is he? And why should I do that?
@@AronRa Bernardo Kastrup is a former worker at CERN and currently a philosopher of mind, who argues that consciousness is the only thing that exists, and that the inanimate universe is a 2nd person perspective of consciousness (just like a person's perceptions of a functioning brain are the 2nd person perspective of consciousness). He argues that the consciousness of living things are dissociated from the consciousness represented by the inanimate universe. He argues for this position not only with philosophy, but also neuroscience and physics.
By arguing that consciousness is the only thing that exists, he avoids the _hard problem of consciousness,_ and solves the _mind-body problem._ This consciousness, which is represented by the universe, would basically be God, and there's *no* need to appeal to divine intervention or intelligent design in Bernardo's philosophy. Bernardo still believes in evolution, naturalism, and all of that good stuff.
There's a lecture by him here. The video is long, but most of it is Q&A. You just need to watch about 35 minutes. It might seem lazy by me to simply refer to a video, but I can't explain his idea anyway nearly as well as Bernardo can.
th-cam.com/video/AF2uTbmHCMA/w-d-xo.html&feature=shares&t=337
Bernardo has a *discussion* with an atheist here, if you're interested in that instead.
th-cam.com/video/MS43g_KgKOs/w-d-xo.html&feature=shares
He has written _extensively_ on the subject. I recommend the following papers (both of which have been printed in one of his books, *The Idea of the World* )
*An Ontological Solution to the Mind-Body Problem*
www.mdpi.com/2409-9287/2/2/10
*On the Plausibility of Idealism: Refuting Criticisms*
sciendo.com/article/10.2478/disp-2017-0025
I'm not used to explaining ideas on the internet, but hopefully I conveyed the gist of it well enough.
*Thanks for taking the time to read this, Aron!* I like listening to your stuff. 🙏😀
@Sebastian Lundh it looks like Bernardo Kastrup stood too close to the accelerator at CERN.
@@goodquestion7915 Not an argument, GoodQuestion; just an Ad Hominem.
@@SebastianLundh1988 ill refute that nonsense. The mind is part of the body, and consciousness is an emergent property of biology.
Unless he has an example of consciousness absent biology, its completely stupid gibberish.
Learned a lot here. You are the best researcher for truth out inyoutube
Bart corrects you on almost everything you think you know.
He gives necessary nuance and complexity to biblical history
apologists get btfo
And?
He tends to do that, lol. Accurately. 😆
@@tshred666 the nuance that Jesus didn't know you should wash your hands before you eat? Why wouldn't a divine being know that and tell his people? That would be a huge advantage and would make Christians thrive, but Jesus was just a human and the Bible is an ancient story so he made a mistake, that is what logically follows.
Was that Godzilla at 6:48?
Hahah pretty sure it was
Godzilla was always my ringtone.
Aron seems to be genuinely lacking in knowledge of that which he opposes. And before anyone thinks that I’m an apologist trying to discredit Aron, I am not. Take for instance Derek of Myth Vision Podcast, at least he knows what the Bible is attempting to say.
Dr. Ehrman repeatedly corrects Aron’s position with proper interpretation of the Bible. If one wishes to argue against something, they should at least take the time to properly study that which they have issue with.
New drinking game…slam one back every time Bart breaks out in a weird, slightly maniacal laugh for no (to outside observers at least) discernible reason. Enjoy!
lol
What I learned today was that Jesus never washed his hands
and told his disciples not to either
Pilate did tho
I prefer the book of Austin.
Ehrman either disregards or avoids the fact that the belief in and even acceptance of the existence of supernatural and occult elements was far more dominant in the ancient worldviews when hardly any understanding of natural phenomena or the true causality between actions, reactions and the results thereof prevailed in the local area where the early writings of scripture in particular was initiated. Everything was dedicated either unmonitored magic or conceived beings and certain individuals claiming to manage powers alike. As a perceived norm at the time the writers would've absolutely incorporated such imaginary incantation wielders alike, as proven in any anecdote based prose produced during the time being, pick any culture.
try writing it with 1/10th as many words
@@scambammer6102 _"try writing it with 1/10th as many words"_
No, u..
@@Dr_Wrong scambammer proves I was unfortunately under the flawed impression TH-cam users have passed grammar in compulsory school.
It's not difficult to understand, just a little odd. One hell of a comment though.
@@patriklindholm7576 you’re a shite writer. The goal isn’t to use the most long words possible. And your grammar is laughable. I’m a professional writer. You aren’t.
Mathew 10 and like 14 do NOT say that. I literally just double checked it since you brought it up.
Bart, a few more moments and I think you would have persuaded mr. Ra into becoming a Christian. He is very smart but did not have the context that you have.
What is Bart’s course? Love to hear it
In the words of Homer Simpson....."Praise Jebus"!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
TH-cam has a wicked sense of humour. I got a pre-roll advertisement for a Christian dating app.
I like the Messiah contradiction portion more because it makes me think in modern terms of what was expected by the Jews. All I can picture is the Anglo Jesus dressed like Rambo with a machine gun and a red sweatband with the star of David on it handing out ass whoopings like a action film star while showing an occasional softer side. This makes me think of a Movie trailer for THE REAL Messiah movie. In world full of Ignorant sheep herders One man leads his army of followers against the Roman Empire and Makes them Pray to the one true god. This summer Aaron Taylor-Johnson is The real Messiah.
Schrodinger's God. Simultaneously a father, a son, and a dove that somebody set on fire.
Also about « As it is spoken in Isaiah the Prophet » in chapter 1, well, where the term « Gospel » comes from is in Isaiah.
1:29 How would you recognize Jesus or Yehova if you met him on the street????????????????
Watching recent videos with Ehrman I am left wondering: is there some rule that you HAVE to have blue hair to be allowed to interview him? :P
5:53 WHERE? WHERE? WHERE? WHERE? WHERE? WHERE? Did Jesus say that they have to pay their taxes????????
Different levels of divine 😂, is there a negative divine? Will god ever level up? Is there a potion we can take to temporarily increase our divineness? DnD players need to know these things
I was asked to not come back to a Bible study because I asked questions and then I had the audacity to question the answers. I guess I just wasn't taking it seriously..... I guess.
Cant wait til Aron goes over the book of Judas and the other books that the Vatican just decided werent cannon
When you start tearing apart the gospels in your blasphemy series I hope it coincides with the holiday season.
if god was real it would have better trolls
@@scambammer6102
Like you got it
the look on bart's face, looking at the blue beard thinking "what in the world?"
I love you Bart Ehrman but I definitely disagree with your statement about Mark not presenting Jesus as divine. I just got done listening to the entire book of Mark (except for the bogus ending) at 2.0 speed and it points to the idea of Jesus being God all over the place. He can forgive sins. Like it is asked, "Who can forgive sins except for God alone". This is not why Jesus rebuked what they were thinking in their hearts (I don't think). That's just one example. The are examples all over the place. I challenge everyone to listen to book of the Mark at 2.0 speed with the question in mind: Does Mark present Jesus as divine?
Also why did they even kill Jesus if he wasn’t claiming to be equal with God?
Also, I think Jesus asked the rich man why he called him good because Jesus was asking the man if he was acknowledging Jesus as God. Jesus never said he was not good. Clearly Jesus would at the very least claim to be good. Yet Jesus said no one is good except God alone, again equating himself with God.
I think Bart’s point is that he is ‘divine’ but not God. If you read simply Mark without the context of the other gospels it would be hard to make the case he is literally God on Earth. He’s more like a servant of God (but a valuable one hence Son of God)
@@Jd-808 listen to the book of mark at 2.0 speed with that question in mind and see if you still think the same (If you want to that is).
I see a lot of people here who seem to think their English translations are what Dr. Ehrman is referring to when he’s talking about the gospels.
the trinity an ouroboric act of cannibalism
...and/or an act of inflicting undue suffering to fulfill a narcissistic craving
Would love to be in the show to talk about spiritual atheism
Godzilla!
People keep saying he's got to go for some reason.
Interview Joe Atwill next! He can explain how the bible was crafted by Rome as pro Roman propaganda
never make any sense to me for anyone who's even just remotely familiar with the roman empire history and it's political machinations... the jews were literal nobody to rome, nobody in the upper echelon of roman politics would even consider the possibility to invent a jewish religion, and for what, lol.
@@Napoleonic_S for the purpose of pacifying the Jewish rebellions popping up in the Roman Empire during the Roman Jewish War. Rome conquered Judea but the Jews refused to acknowledge the Caesar as divine, so Rome had bitten off more than they could chew and it was a real problem for them actually. Atwill's analysis is brilliant if nothing else but I also find it to be the most persuasive of any bible provenance hypothesis I've ever heard.
@@joefization
still nonsense though, the jews were not the only group of people who did that... also keep in mind that the whole inventing religions for population control scheme is only something that came into public consciousness after the enlightenment era, ancient people see reality differently, for them the gods were absolutely real, it would be considered something of a sacrilege to completely invent new divinities to fool others, one would risk angering the gods (whoever they are) for that, and the romans being superstitious people as well would not dare to think that way.
I just don't think the causation of such conspiracy acceptable given what we know about how ancient people see the gods, the supernatural and religions..
@@Napoleonic_S just because the Romans were generally superstitious dosen't mean the leaders were. The aristocracy was vain, pompous, sadistic and ambitious. Organized religion has been a product made for the masses, not for the elite who considered themselves their masters.
Atwill provides evidence that actually makes sense of the bible in a coherent way. What other theory can do that? Have you read Caesar's Messiah? I highly recommend it.
@@joefization so basically an engine for narcissistic supply (and more), then?
And Donald Trump is the twenty first century Massiah.
“Deutschland wieder großartig machen”
Wow. Aaron looks amazing with the hair
Why invite a subject expert then do most of the talking yourself?
I didn't do most of the talking. But what is important to me is, when I have an impression that I think is right, check that with the experts to see how well-supported it is. Sometimes that requires explanation.
Bart with Aron. It don't get any better
At 6.50 a demon enters the room