I found a pile of glitter upstairs. I asked my daughter if she knew it was there. She did. I asked when it got there. She said it had been a few days. When I asked why she didn't clean it up she said, "I just figured the maid would do it." I knew it was my fault. That day we cancelled the pooper scooper service and now that's one of her chores. Things are better.
When I was 13 in the summer of 1971, I was a volunteer at Hines Veterans Hosp (Hines, Illinois). Yes, in a candy-striper smock, so embarrassing. Rode my bicycle there with the smock hidden. The old buildings there did not have air conditioning. And they were packed with wounded Viet Nam vets. The rooms, the hallways, the common areas, all packed with bumper-to-bumper gurneys of terribly wounded young men. The sights, the sounds, the smells. I still cannot touch Jello. I learned a lot that summer, that I didn’t have any problems whatsoever. And real empathy. Thank you veterans, and thank you Hines Hospital. It’s still there.
My first ever summer job at 17 was in the laundry of the mental institution. On Mondays we had to sort dirty laundry. The stench made us gag. There was food, urine, feces, and even bloody stuff from the OR on there. Sometimes we had to go help get or deliver linens on the wards. A real eye opener. Like Dave I learned a lot that summer that you can't get from a book.
I started candy striping at 12, in 1970, and kept it up till I was 16. It wasn't the jello, that made me want to hurl, but the mechanical soft diets. I always worked on Sunday, and that was liver day. Feeding someone pureed liver, and having to wipe off what drools down their face, still haunts me. (And if you think the smocks were bad, you should have seen the pink and white pinafore I had to wear.) But, what really did me in was this one quadriplegic patient. She'd been in a car accident, when she was 19, and was then 21. We became friends. She was so lonely, and wanted another young person to talk to. One Sunday, when I went for her tray, to feed her, it wasn't there. I went to the nurses' station, and asked what was up. She'd died the night before. I'm sure you lost some of your Nam vets too. When you're young, you think you're immortal, and it is a real shock to realize you aren't.
...maybe if the USA wouldn't be so paranoid (its oversized military and the masses of weapons in private homes prove that) the US wouldn't generate damaged veterans over and over again.
He should easily be nominated for the Mark Twain Prize. Many of his books and essays are on TH-cam. He reads them aloud. He was discovered by This American Life for his Holiday on Ice….Being an Elf in Macy’s. His words in print can make one pee with laughter….find Stadium Pal on Letterman. Enjoy.
Maybe where they live it’s this bad, but I can tell you here in CO plenty of kids have jobs and are held accountable for their actions. Of course not all…but most. Including in my house and my neighbors who have kids. So the sky isn’t totally falling on this issue.
Not so in Canada. All the fast food places are staffed by temporary foreign workers. Sit down restaurants pay signing bonuses to get staff while all the students are busy "being Aticus".
I don't know where these people live that kids don't work, because around here (Wisconsin) almost every teen I know works. Even if they didn't work, no one is entitled to someone else's labor. It's amazing how many people feel entitled to others' labors.
If every young person was required to perform 2 years of Customer Service following high school (the way many other countries require military service), we would be a far more civilized, polite, and skilled society.
Two years in the Service Industry, and you should have to pay rent and bills with that money. Learn how to be poor and work a shit job for a living BEFORE you go to college or whatever. I think people would be a lot more sympathetic if everyone had to struggle to keep their heads above water for a period of time.
I'm 70+. It seems to me that people over 50-60 tends to forget how nasty/naughty they themselves were while teens. I was around in the 1970s, and I'd say today's youth are far better than we were back then.
Geez, guess I'm the weirdo. My dad was so strict I and my brothers were too scared to step out of line. We all grew up without getting into a lick of trouble ever. None of our kids have either.
When I told my parents I wanted to go to college they told me that was fine but that I would have to pay for it myself. I worked two years in a factory unloading trucks and delivering stacks of cardboard to different conveyer belts. I had a boss and co-workers, was treated like an adult, had rules I had to follow, and would get yelled at if I made a mistake. Best thing that ever happened to me. When I went to college, I was an adult and understood responsibility and consequences.
Did your boss and/ or co-workers HIT you or otherwise do physical violence to you? There are myriad ways of learning accountability and that actions have consequences that don't involve corporal punishment. Assault IS a crime.
@@Huckster2367 EXACTLY!! hahaha.. and.. why wouldn't his parents pay? that's ridiculous.. maybe pay for books.. or.. their spending habits.. but.. actually.. these days.. your parents tax returns are required until you're 26.. so.. I'm not sure this tactic would work now that a 4 year degree at an "okay" school is $100+k back when I got my degree (in the early 90s) it cost around $36k.. universities are a racket anyway
I remember being a kid, with the pals, throwing rocks at a goose. Neighbor lady came out and beat the piss out of me. My mom came out at asked her what was going on. Needless to say, and rightly so, my mom said I deserved that ass whooping. I learned a lot that day. RIP Mom.
In the late 70’s, @ 22 yo, while walking with my girlfriend and dog, in a nearby park we found three little kids probably 8-10 years old, breaking glass soda bottles in the grass, on a hill it was a popular spot for picnics. I went ballistic on them, yelling caught them off guard, I explained to them why it was such a bad idea. They resisted which only turned up my ire, which immediately said you have two choices, one you pick up every last piece of glass 4:31 right now, or you lay in it , hurry up make that decision, now! They cleane it up immediately. I waited while they obeyed my command , with fear. Once it was cleaned up they had to walk 75-100 feet to the nearest garbage can,,they carried the glass in barehands all that way, as I walked behind them right to the can. I gave them some bullshit lecture on why not to ever do it again. They walked off whispering. Then ran… told me to fuck off… I laughed.
Just 10 years ago at a sculpture gallery 2 kids were running around coming within inches of $5k works, while their mom was sitting on a bench ignoring them. My wife took matters into her own hands and read them the riot act. Mom got up and sheepishly took her kids out.
@@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen GOOD.. cuz.. it's NO ONE'S place to do that.. if the PARENTS are around TELL THEM.. if their folks aren't there? call the cops.. or.. post a video and call them out and embarrass TF outta them.. AND have video EVIDENCE to give to law enforcement who can handle the situation.. ADULTS bullying *CHILDREN* (8-10 year olds???) WOW!! *big man*!! and.. sounds like your PROUD of your 🐂💩 if I saw you doing THAT to MY kid?? yeah.. I'd do to YOU what you're so PROUD of doing to CHILDREN and.. YOU'D be running away CRYING they were breaking bottles.. BAD THING.. they weren't murdering someone or hurting an animal or a smaller child.. KIDS *do* shit they're not supposed to do.. they're CHILDREN and need to make mistakes to LEARN and.. it's not YOUR place to teach them.. ESPECIALLY since you seem GLEEFUL that they were FEARFUL.. that word alone shows that type of motivation is psycho.. I teach MY kids with LOVE and tell them they NEVER have to listen to BULLIES like the 22 year old in the scenario
I'm a parent. I am frequently frustrated by permissive parents. But I also bristle at this bullshit idea that hitting kids is helpful. My dad used to beat the shit out of my brothers and me. That only taught us to lie and hide. We also beat the shit out of each other. Outside of a few extreme instances, we've never hit our kids. They're not assholes, and they don't think that the ability to inflict pain is the same thing as authority. Kids are bright and capable, for the most part. They need independence AND guardrails. Like most of us, honestly. And if you think kids are annoying assholes, wait until you meet adults.
Asian kids are always beaten up. I am an Asian myself and I can attest that my abuse made my stronger. At least I don't get offended when someone calls me names or says anything racist because I have better shit to deal with in my life. It's also the same reason you never hear Asian kids complain about how college admissions have become so challenging with quotas for blacks, hispanics. We deal with shit and move on.
Absolutely...I've been a Special Educator in elementary schools for 2 decades. I also deal with "regular kids". Classroom teachers are expected to teach the children how to be humans, because their parents ARE NOT DOING IT!
that's the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard.. NO ONE pays you for your OPINION.. teach them how to read and write and leave YOUR stupid judgements at the door.. it's NOT your place to say what is or not taught in the home.. mind YOUR business and STAY IN YOUR LANE educators have a function and your OPINION about KIDS isn't it
You could have the scene from the movie airplane where they're lining up to calm down that one woman, but instead of the woman, have Macaulay Culkin doing the ahhh face, that hes famous for.
This is one of those bits that I think hits differently depending on where you are in life. I currently have young kids and so much of my social circle tends to have young kids as well. And my spouse is an elementary teacher. So I feel a fair bit more qualified to chime in on parenting techniques compared to a couple of childless old bachelors. Whether you hit a child or not does squat to raise well behaved kids. It's about modeling behavior. If a child is raised by a drunk abusive father who cheats on his mother, then guess how that kid is going to turn out? Now imagine the opposite - a kid raised in a family where the parents are loving & respectful to each other and they all eat dinner together every night. I do agree with the jobs bit though - very good for broadening world experience and building up some grit.
Childless old bachelors is one way of saying it clueless old farts is how I would put it. Modeling behaviour is one part, a very important one, but there's more to it than that, there has to be discipline too if that comes in the form of hitting the kids is a whole other question.
A decade ago, when both of my daughters were in college, I was in a conversation with three other people, all older than me, who had never raised children. They were going on and on about what is wrong with kids and parents, these days. After 15 minutes of it, I stopped them and asked if they'd ever been responsible for raising a child. When they replied, "no", I responded, "Then you're all speaking out of ignorance of the difficulties, of raising children to be fulfilled, functioning adults. Maybe, you should stick to topics, where you have actual experience." Many of the things they felt parents should do, would end up with the parent being arrested. I took developmental psychology, while getting my degree, and it was very helpful in parenting. But, being a good parent is not easy, and ignorant know-it-alls don't make it easier.
Love it. It's your job as a parent to prepare your children to make their way in the world in a healthy way. The parents work to pay the bills the children should help with chores etc so they are healthy contributing adults. Start working as soon as possible so they know the value of a dollar. It helps with their self esteem to problem solve and see what they are capable of.
I think there's a huge spectrum in what it means to "hit kids" the difference between a swift impersonal (non aggressive) spank (like tapping a dog on the nose) to modify behavior, is completely different than raising a hand in anger. There is all the difference between a brief negative stimuli, and doing physical damage.
Part of the reasons for me not wanting to be a parent are: 1. Making the same mistakes as my parents or worse. 2. Disciplining too harshly or not enough. I applaud people who take a leap and have kids; I prefer to live my life as is.
My daughter doesn't want children because she knows they are hard work and nothing like the cutesy kids on the commercials. I suppose telling her when she was a teenager and being a brat that I hoped if she had kids they treat her as she was treating me might have had something to do with it.
That's a solution that was forced on you. Someone gave you life and you deserve to have children. But yes, we need to support parents more, or at least not punish them. We humans are so inhumane.
this comment shows how very self-aware you are.. I applaud people who make sound decisions about having or not having kids!! enjoy your life.. just as it is!!!
@@Robin-bk2lm do you personally know OP?? probably not.. so.. how can you OPINE that their choice was FORCED on them and.. NO ONE *deserves* kids.. that's a weird thing to say to a stranger.. because.. maybe they just DON'T.. people in the comment section on social media crack me up
There is so much truth to this. I was a spoiled child and grew up to have no resilience. I never had to develop that muscle. I saw it when I was younger as a blessing, but I later realised when life got tough on me, that it was a handicap. I am happy sometimes my children have obstacles because the shock of realising life doesn't give me everything my parents did was a tough lesson to learn as an adult child.
this comment should put a lot concerned parents' minds at ease. The lesson will be learned, if not now then later. But, always better to learn it now so life will be easier when it gets harder.
These days everybody uses their cell phone as a babysitter and the kids are raised by the internet and the phone is always there with them. Cell phones became mainstream in 2011, so the kids who have been raised on it from the very beginning are going to join the workforce soon, I'd say over the next few years everything is really going to go off a cliff.
@@desireepetitdemurat8660 So the upcoming generation that has the memory of a goldfish and the attention span of a hummingbird because all they do is watch 6 second tick tocks and TH-cam videos is going to completely turn it all around, huh. How long have you been a teacher?
@@lunacron Since 1979. I’ll give you something, i don’t teach in the States, but anyway, since the beginning of times people have complained about the new generations. As Oscar Wilde once said, “We’re all in the gutter, but some of us look at the stars.”
I get that this is meant to be a more lighthearted segment, but they are so off the mark it's crazy. That whole "you gotta give them an ass-whopping" attitude, you know what it lead to? Kids using that aggression on each other. The bullying that used to occur in the past was crazy. I knew kids who had to be dragged kicking and screaming to school because of how miserable other kids made their lives and yet they would never tell because they would be seen as a snitch and too many adults would just see it as "kids being kids". Nowadays kids are just so much nicer to each other. Oh, and those crappy low paying jobs? Personally, I didn't learn anything from them. They were just a tool for big companies to get a cheap labor force that they could treat as badly as they wanted because it didn't matter given how high the turnover was. And the reason why parents don't make their kids work such jobs is because college is so expensive that it's far better for a kid in high school to focus on getting a scholarship instead. Companies can complain all they want about how "kids these days just don't want to work" if what you're paying them doesn't even begin to cover their expenses why would they come work for you?
Ruling with fear is the worst thing you can do to someone. I had a horrible childhood being beaten by my mom and will always be damaged by that. So this is the most stupid conversation I have seen in a while.
I agree, but I think there some truth to what there saying. I also think it's, because most kids are raised by their smart phones instead of their parents.
That was a stupid comment. There is a difference between disciplining your child and plain out abusing it. Fact that you can't tell the difference is quite telling of your age.
My grandmother has crippled, scar covered hands because she was beaten in school, by the teachers. Girls were punished by beating the fingers with a metal ruler. What did she do to deserve this punishment? Well, at age 6 during her first year in school, she had a massive diphtheria infection. She was hospitalized for months and had hearing loss (wich nobody bothered to diagnose.) She could not read when she got back to school as nobody told her in hospital. And she physically could not hear the teachers commands. Thus she was beaten daily for her "inobedience", "stubbornness" and "lazyness". I'd like to invite everyone who thinks beating children into submission is a good idea to a no-safeword-session in my basement, for a discussion of the topic.
This an extreme example, and not at all the topic of discussion here. What you just explained is not at all the same as smacking a kid for being rude, or stealing, or breaking something.
These two are comedians! It’s a joke! But the truth is kids have become absolutely without fear. I did not spank or hit my children, and don’t believe corporal punishment but they certainly got punished, in ways that really hurt them, like taking away their video games, phones etc. My number one button was lack of respect and I went hard on that. But having conversations about the behaviour is key.
Nobody is advocating for your extreme case which is out of context for the discussion. You seem to have a violent streak yourself which you should take a closer look at.
What school did she go to? Was it a religious one by any chance and why didn't she tell anyone that she couldn't hear? Surely her parents must have realised she had lost her hearing? Your story makes no sense and I question it as I have the right to do.
I’m 50 and I’ve had 20 something’s complain to my boss if I even reference that I’ve had more experience than them. I’m apparently guilty of ageism. F them. They’re guilty of ageism. My condition’s only getting worse. If youth is a condition, it’s one that always cures itself.
In an actual Lord of the fFles situation that actually happened the children got along very well and team together as a harmonious group to overcome their situation. They weren’t found for several years.
this is TRUE.. they cared for each other.. when one broke a leg? they fashioned a splint and TOOK CARE of him!! they worked COOPERATIVELY and survived several years (I believe).. and.. when they were finally found? they were in good health a all of them survived because they took care of each other!! thanks for the reminder.. people like this idiot that Bill is talking to need to STOP TALKING
Exactly, Maher hasn't read the book, I guess cos he spent his youth smoking low grade hash and his middle age snorting cocaine. I think Sedaris is just fucking with Maher and showing him up to an old fart.
read the book - "hold on to your kids". it explains exactly why kids are so different these days and how to fix it. it's all about kids getting too attached to their peers rather than their parents/community and that is driving all the problems we see today. very enlightening.
My parents would tell adults we knew, “if you see them acting up smack the shit outta them..”. Then we’d get smacked again for making someone smack us.
Exactly. I don’t think people realize what happens when parents use corporal punishment and the patterns and behaviours that can develop over time from it. If a parent hits their kid every time, there is a risk of increasing the severity of punishment putting your child in danger. I used to work in the child welfare sector and ppl just don’t realize how bad it can get and the outcomes it leads to. This segment was brutal 🙄
I raised three children which became wonderful, caring and responsible adults. Never once did I strike or hit them while educating them in the ways of the world. I’m so relieved Mr Sedaris never had children if all he can come up with is the importance of parents or their friends to hit them! I never cared for his writing or point of view in things. Now I really despise this gentleman for toying with one of the worst scenarios societies face, child abuse.
Bill's last interaction with children was when he read Lord of the Flies in grade school. Like the show, but he's no expert on kids. Let the pilot fly the plane, Bill, as you like to say. 😃
I don't have kids. But I and the rest of society have to suffer with the results of what breeders do. So, we do have a say. P.S. Some pilots fly the plane into the ground.
@@ge2623 imagine thinking you get to tell parents how to raise children when the only thing you're concerned with is those children behaving in a way that benefits you.
@@ge2623 The results of those "breeders" are going to be working to pay your social security benefits and will be electing officials to decide what happens to you in your dotage. Just think about that for a moment.....
I was at a local restaurant and in the next booth was a family. The mother was changing the baby’s diaper on the seat while her three year old stood on the table….I glared heavily at him and barked, “GET DOWN”.
My kids got jobs at 15. They’ve always had their own money and made choices on how to spend or save it. If Bill thinks what its like on TV is representative of how it is in real life, he’s forgotten that TV is fiction. Sure, some kids are awful but so are some adults; apple rarely falls far from the tree. Kids help keep you young and humble - Bill is showing signs of “old man” attitude
Tv is designed to indoctrinate the people and convince them this is how we are supposed to be. I'm glad my mom who never slapped me - in the 50-60s - called the tv the idiot box and said go play or weed the garden or hang the clothes or something.
This man literally signed my book last night with "hit em" as his best quote or advice for teachers. I'm obviously not going to hit a kid but I like that he says that stuff that sometimes in other people's heads
While he is joking, to some extent, he is actually right. My mother believed in corporal punishment. If you act out, I will bop you upside the head. No, it wasn’t abusive in nature, and she wasn’t trying to harm me, but as a child, I didn’t understand that this behavior was not OK. We know that a child’s mind hasn’t developed the concept of good bad thoroughly. We’ve seen children commit crimes and we don’t charge them as adults because we know they don’t have the mind of an adult. Well, in certain situations, a kid can miss behave and sometimes you can see the child down and explain to them. Miss behaving as bad as they get I shouldn’t do this, but for some children, pain is a valuable lesson. Once again, I’m not talking about abuse of pain, but my three-year-old niece keeps reaching for the cookies and I say no you can’t have cookies and she keeps doing it. I’ll tap on the back of the hand let her know this is not acceptable, young lady. The tap is harmful to her. She flinches away and she knows oh I better not touch that. You know we all have that lesson we talk about when you touch a hot stove and you learn. Oh don’t touch the stove. It’s a similar concept. No I don’t think a parent should bulldoze their child into a wall. If you’re going to practice, corporal punishment with your child, you have to be able to separate your anger with the child from the actual punishment. My great grandfather, whose dad practiced corporal punishment, but his dad had a system to it. He kept the book you get five strikes that’s when you get the belt. You could build up all the strikes you want it but when it got to five, that was the day you would receive your corporal punishment drop those pants. So my great grandfather knew he was on a system and he did mess up and he say all I’m not gonna get it today but when he got four strikes, he was on his best behavior, but as a kid, we do dumb things and he will get that fifth strike and he would know it’s time for the corporal punishment, I have to pay the piper. I’ve done wrong he learned I shouldn’t do these things and his father while he was dishing out the corporal punishment he wasn’t necessarily upset or angry because it wasn’t the actual time when the offenses head long past, and he could simply process fifth, strike for the child 10 taps with the belt those are the rules. So anger never played a factor in the corporal punishment. It was always what were the rules five strikes 10 taps with the belt. Sort of like a criminal justice system. What’s the crime that was committed? What is the sentence that is to be handed down. There was never any deviation from it. It was always the same thing. Until the child that older, and he understood I know the rules. I won’t break the rules. As a young teenager he never broke the rules again. A funny thing happened, though, as his other siblings, saw how the rules were implemented and executed guess what they didn’t break the rules either.
This is one of those questions like the death penalty, where it sounds like an appropriate remedy *in some cases*, but you wouldn't want to have such a policy in effect because you can't trust everyone with that kind of power. Hitting kids is along the same lines -- are you really going to trust *all parents* with this type of power?
I read a lot of online advice columns. And the idea now is that when a child acts up, you first try to reason with them. Then, you should try to understand why they're acting out. If all else fails, try to soothe them, distract them, and always be nurturing and caring. As if this is going to get them ready for the real world. Because if/when they get a job, no, the boss isn't going to hold your hand, or empathize, or try to understand and cater to your feelings. They want the job done right, right now, and then get onto the next thing. All too often, kids talk about their "rights"; seldom do they want to discuss their responsibilities. As Maher said, it used to be that if you did something wrong, the neighbors would yell at you. Then they told your parents, and you'd get scolded again. And chances were good you'd be forced to apologize to the neighbors for being stupid. Now? That would be tantamount to child abuse, the child would be traumatized, and more likely than not, the parents would tell the neighbor to MYOB.
One difficulty is that the word "children" can refer to anyone who is "not yet an adult." What you described is appropriate for a child between the ages 2 to 5 (before they understand abstractions such as cause and effect, can anticipate outcomes, and have conscious impulse control). For someone so new to the world, and with a brain that is not fully developed, it doesn't do any good to hit or punish them because they don't understand any of it. At this age, the adult's job is to help the child develop the skills and understanding they will need to be successful in their perceptions and their actions. By the time children are in their ELEMENTARY school years, adult responses need to be more direct. It is then that children can be held accountable. At this age, they are attempting to understand concepts such as fairness, justice, and rules in general.
Arguing for hitting kids must be the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. Teaching respect by violence. Sounds like a good plan. Of course you can get well behaved kids without hitting them. Bill: sometimes you are an uneducated prick with too much confidence in your own ideas.
I know many who never hit their children and they are respectful adults. People use that excuse for an excuse to hit their kids. I've known many beaten who are in jail (husband was a cop) and many who grew into bullies. There isn't a one size fits all but if being hit with a belt is the only way you know to make a child a good human being, it's sad. Quicker than most things but sad.
I'm not far off Bill's age and a slap around the legs did no one any harm, it made us think twice about doing wrong again. Look at modern kids and young adults, are they really that great because all I see are entitled whiney brats who have no respect, just look at the current crop of high ranking politicians and I bet old Donnie was a cossetted brat who never heard the word 'no'
They no longer give children consequences for their behavior. We have taken the word consequences and made it negative. Consequences can be positive or negative. You always address the behavior with consequences. Say an ice cream cone for good behavior or stand in the corner for 10 minutes for not good behavior. Common sense one and one equals two
We just got a bunch of parents and children that are WAY to self-important. You literally got people in this country who would save their dog or cat over a random human. I see the lack of consideration when I drop my son off at school every day. Parents will take 5+ minutes to get their kid out of the car and then have to watch the little bastard walk all the way to the door with no consideration for the 10 cars behind them that might be late smh.
For everyone on here saying you don’t have to have physical punishments for any kid and that you just need to take their phone/video games away. That type of punishment only works if your kid is already hopelessly addicted to them. My sister’s kids are like this and I can’t stand them. They had a near mental breakdown when I was driving and they lost reception for 45 min. (Ones 8 the other is 14) It works for her to threaten to take them away because they don’t know how to function without them. But give it time soon even taking away a kids phone will be seen as forced isolation and mental abuse. I grew up with game systems, computers, phones, and so on, if my mom said she was taking any of them away ( especially if I knew it was temporary) I would of just moved on to the next thing or got in more trouble because I wasn’t distracted. Only thing that ever made me behave was the threat of “I’m telling your dad when he gets home”. After the first few spankings he never needed to do it again because the threat was enough to make me remember the consequences.
Thank god someone finally said something about how rude kids are. I didn't get hit often but maybe that was because I got the lesson after a couple of fails. I was a very respectful kid. I haven't seen one of those in ages.
Let's just put it this way: if my teacher said something bad about me to my parents, I was in trouble. Nowadays, if a teacher says something bad about a kid to the parents, the teacher is in trouble.
@@helenbodel3974 Honey, I am over 50. I was sick of partying by age 30 - that should tell you how often I got out. But then me and my friends weren't sucking an electronic titty all day.
It the absolutism that is wrong. Zero corporal punishment is a bad idea. But not every child requires an ass whooping to learn to be civilized. In fact, most don't. They just need good examples. Some, though, need to know that their actions have real world consequences. And, in those cases, a flick in the ear is usually enough.
@Jim H. I have yet to read an actual Lord of the flies situation ever occur in recorded history with kids. But I have encyclopedias full of when adults act like Lord of the flies... oops, yeah, adults are morons and feral too.
There are many inattentive and unskillful parents out there, and that’s bad for kids and all of us. But it also seems important to note that hitting and intimidating are no way to inspire good-heartedness and truly considerate behavior. Discipline is teaching, and like all teaching it can be frustrating and difficult. But to be effective, it must be based in respectful treatment, consistency, establishing expectations and following through when they aren’t met-again and again-with related and reasonable consequences. It takes commitment, creativity and compassion to get through the inevitable rough patches. Not a job for the immature…yet many have it.
Most young people (under 30!) today have NO work ethic. They were spoiled rotten and pampered by they parents all the way to the end of the line. My first job at age 14 was as a paperboy for The Hartford Courant in Conn. where I grew up. I had to get up at the crack of dawn in the dead of WINTER and push a fully-loaded shopping cart up steep hills in the SNOW so folks could read the paper over they morning coffee. In my 20s I worked TWO jobs to put myself thru college (NO student loans needed!!) And FYI as a GAY man, the absolute BEST thing about being gay was NOT having kids.
27-year-old gay man here. You're right about the best part of being gay is not having kids. Your first point is silly. I work just as hard if not harder than my much older coworkers. To say every young person is lazy is stupid.
I really do think teenagers need to work the crappy fast food minimum wage jobs so they can appreciate a good job when it comes up. I know a person who was making good money but quit because they asked her to pick up HER trash and she said that is not my job and walked out.
The "every kid gets a trophy" kids grew up and made children even worse than they were. It's a trend that will continue to grow worse and worse. And he definitely needs to get Sedaris on his podcast, this discussion needed more time to be fully fleshed out.
let me add that before my husband and myself had a child we were really sure we knew how to do it. after the mysyery became clear we made a physical effort to apologize to those folks wr thought we were smarter than. And their response was its ok we knew you would find out. children really grow do grow their adults up too.
Participation prizes teach kids to fail at life. Life is hard, so we have to learn how to be good losers and learn from our failures to do better next time. There's no participation prize for getting turned down for a date or not getting the job you want, and then we wonder why kids overreact to the slightest thing and why there are many more school shootings lately than decades ago when guns were more common. Kids need to be taught how to bounce back from failures
This is a fucking weird conversation, not because of what they are talking about, but because of the constant laughter on the background. I could see this conversation happening in a podcast with zero laughter and it would change the tone of it completely.
Just as the video cuts, Sedaris says "it's important for them to serve me". While he was half-joking (?) He does bring up an important point. As someone who worked retail and hospitality jobs well into my 20s, I've always agreed with the idea that everyone, as a part of their growing up process, should spend some time in a job where they need to serve others. I suspect society would be better off. On the flipside, if you enjoy "Karen" videos on social media, you'd probably run out of material pretty fast.
Very small percentage of kids actually want to get out there and start working. We have a 12-year-old who hates school but is willing to work with/for me in my small business for a little extra cash. And it's because of that, I'm not worried about his distaste for school. He'll be just fine when he grows up, even if he chooses not to attend college but go straight to work. In all honesty, I'd prefer that he not go to college, but find work that is willing to train him and learn a skill. As long as they have the desire to work for money, they'll never be a failure. Now, I have a friend who is very concerned about his 17-year-old daughter who graduates next year and has ZERO desire to work nor any idea of what she wants to do for a living... and I think there are a ton of teens in that category, which is scary because they're the ones who will be complaining they don't have money and will vote for universal basic income and then our path to full on socialism will be complete. Thanks, Democrats.
I love that Maher, who consistently complains about ageism proudly declares that he hates kids. I also love that that these 2 men who never had the courage to try parenting think they know what the rest of us are doing wrong and declare that it's "the cause of all our problems."
The problems stem from people telling the 'kids' that they have soooo many rights, but, fail to impress on them that with those 'rights' comes 'Responsibilities' as well ?
I told one of my Jiu Jitsu buddies the other day that I don't think you have a genuine moral compass if your Mom or Dad didn't slap you in the mouth at least once when you smarted off.
Speaking as someone who raised two boys and taught elementary school for 13/23 years teaching. While it's true that kids are too smart for their own good these days, the opinions of two men who never had kids get little respect from me. Most of the time I enjoy Bill's thoughts, but there are some areas where he shows his ignorance.
Kids with manners are far and in-between. Yeah, that's right I said it! I didn't have the world's best parents. But my Mom taught us the basics. Say excuse me when you walk in front of a person. Hold the door for others. Always say please & thank you. Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. You can spot a kid anywhere who had an elder who taught them the basics! Always look for the helpers. ~ Mr Roger's
Jonathan Haidt has written/talked about this, how zoomers (1995-onward) are entering college with much less life experience than any prior generation. They are less likely to have had jobs, dated, have a driver's license, etc. And we're seeing the impact as that generation and even later Millennials have become writers or run departments and they just have little or no real life experience, so many are stunted children.
every generation on their way out has said this for different reasons since the beginning of time. Also if you celebrate getting smacked around by your parents, get help.
I also have no interest in having kids, but I think you're reasons are little off. Seriously? Kids should be made to work? Kids should be smacked? I grew up getting smacked until I was 13. Guess why my parents stopped at that age? Cuz I was big enough to beat the shit out of them. And I worked in the summers in my teen years. It was hell! Look, I don't have kids, and there's a long list of reasons to not wanna have any kids (or to not like kids), but "kids not working" and "kids not getting hit" is not one of em.
@amitabhhajela681 if someone puts me in pain, they're getting that pain back. And it wasn't "occasionally" that they did it!! It was every fuckin week!!
They are exactly right about kids. I had worked since I was 9 years old---mowed yards and worked at my grandparents farm---I always told my kids they were gonna work growing up----that's one thing I'm very proud of--their work ethic. They don't complain---they want money? They gotta work for it.
Whereas Sedaris is always a deeply funny, sensitive genius, Mahar is often quite full of it. Noting that I grew up in the SF suburbs where I knew ONE girl who was hit. She was my best friend and, even when I was away, she'd go over to my home to be safe. She left home at 18, moved into the city and created a new family there, made up of friends and adults who cared for her.
Does anyone know what the essay title David Sedaris is paraphrasing from or book of his this is in? (He read this on his tour and it was hilarioussss but I didn’t get the title)
There's an entire facet of one's personality that only really unfolds with the process of raising children. Sure it's a wild and brutal ride at times, but it's also a way to access moments of joy you would otherwise consider unthinkable. Maher will never understand this.
Around the 80's they started pulling up the ladder behind them. By the 90's it was clear that you were going to get the negative consequences no matter what you did - it was peak "punish everyone 'cause we're too lazy to find out who was actually responsible". There has to be hope for good consequences to properly regulate behavior. Otherwise you get learned helplessness or no moral compass. Thanks Boomers.
@@danrbarlow I think your statement is true also. My comment was mainly about small children. I 100% agree that the ladder was pulled up in the 80s and that the likelihood of becoming even comfortably middle class and saving a retirement nest egg is nearly zero.
Maybe it's just different in small towns, but I'd say most teenagers had part time jobs when I was in high school. That was 20 years ago, but I actually don't think things have changed that much, at least where I live. I also work at a place that employs mostly teenagers. Some of our cliental are teenagers and most of them have jobs, too. I will say though that in the last 5 years a large percentage of the "low skill" retail jobs are now being done by Indian immigrants. So maybe things will be drastically different in 5 years.
No corporal punishment but make teens go build houses for the homeless (with no wifi) for the summer. Screens have made them lazy, selfish and completely incompetent.
In the late 80s early 90s 6 words my mum use to say on minor occasions when l was a kid put a bit of fear in me. It was “Wait until your father gets home”. After hearing that l would try and do a couple of chores to try and get on his good side. I laughed at what AJ did in The Sopranos when he stayed in a city hotel overnight and came home with his eyebrows shaved off. “Hey dad just putting out the garbage”.
Am I the only one super annoyed by Bill’s audience? Is it a laugh track or something? Why does the audience feel the need to laugh hysterically every 5 seconds 😅 kinda ruins the conversation.
I found a pile of glitter upstairs. I asked my daughter if she knew it was there. She did. I asked when it got there. She said it had been a few days. When I asked why she didn't clean it up she said, "I just figured the maid would do it." I knew it was my fault. That day we cancelled the pooper scooper service and now that's one of her chores. Things are better.
When I was 13 in the summer of 1971, I was a volunteer at Hines Veterans Hosp (Hines, Illinois). Yes, in a candy-striper smock, so embarrassing. Rode my bicycle there with the smock hidden. The old buildings there did not have air conditioning. And they were packed with wounded Viet Nam vets. The rooms, the hallways, the common areas, all packed with bumper-to-bumper gurneys of terribly wounded young men. The sights, the sounds, the smells. I still cannot touch Jello.
I learned a lot that summer, that I didn’t have any problems whatsoever. And real empathy. Thank you veterans, and thank you Hines Hospital. It’s still there.
That's horrifying. Sorry, but no 13 year old should be in that environment. I'm glad you are able to take something positive from it.
My first ever summer job at 17 was in the laundry of the mental institution. On Mondays we had to sort dirty laundry. The stench made us gag. There was food, urine, feces, and even bloody stuff from the OR on there.
Sometimes we had to go help get or deliver linens on the wards. A real eye opener.
Like Dave I learned a lot that summer that you can't get from a book.
I started candy striping at 12, in 1970, and kept it up till I was 16. It wasn't the jello, that made me want to hurl, but the mechanical soft diets. I always worked on Sunday, and that was liver day. Feeding someone pureed liver, and having to wipe off what drools down their face, still haunts me. (And if you think the smocks were bad, you should have seen the pink and white pinafore I had to wear.) But, what really did me in was this one quadriplegic patient. She'd been in a car accident, when she was 19, and was then 21. We became friends. She was so lonely, and wanted another young person to talk to. One Sunday, when I went for her tray, to feed her, it wasn't there. I went to the nurses' station, and asked what was up. She'd died the night before. I'm sure you lost some of your Nam vets too. When you're young, you think you're immortal, and it is a real shock to realize you aren't.
@@jamesclapp6832 nah, that's the problem, that attitude.
...maybe if the USA wouldn't be so paranoid (its oversized military and the masses of weapons in private homes prove that) the US wouldn't generate damaged veterans over and over again.
Bring David back more often. Brilliant humorist and the also brilliant comedian would be a great club random!
“This is Atticus’s time to be Atticus!” No wonder Maher likes Sedaris so much, he’s hilarious!
that was hilarious...his delivery was great too
He should easily be nominated for the Mark Twain Prize. Many of his books and essays are on TH-cam. He reads them aloud. He was discovered by This American Life for his Holiday on Ice….Being an Elf in Macy’s. His words in print can make one pee with laughter….find Stadium Pal on Letterman. Enjoy.
@@marylhereagreed! Unfortunately awards have gone the way of mediocrity and the mark twain award has been given to Billy f**king Madison 🙄
Maybe where they live it’s this bad, but I can tell you here in CO plenty of kids have jobs and are held accountable for their actions. Of course not all…but most. Including in my house and my neighbors who have kids. So the sky isn’t totally falling on this issue.
I’m moving to CO!
Not so in Canada. All the fast food places are staffed by temporary foreign workers. Sit down restaurants pay signing bonuses to get staff while all the students are busy "being Aticus".
I don't know where these people live that kids don't work, because around here (Wisconsin) almost every teen I know works. Even if they didn't work, no one is entitled to someone else's labor. It's amazing how many people feel entitled to others' labors.
If every young person was required to perform 2 years of Customer Service following high school (the way many other countries require military service), we would be a far more civilized, polite, and skilled society.
Yaaasssss!
Better idea than beating children
"Following high school'?? Would be better if it was DURING high school.
I am all for this! Some kind of civil service requirement. But it’ll never happen in the us unfortunately.
Two years in the Service Industry, and you should have to pay rent and bills with that money. Learn how to be poor and work a shit job for a living BEFORE you go to college or whatever. I think people would be a lot more sympathetic if everyone had to struggle to keep their heads above water for a period of time.
The LOVE I have for David Sedaris!! I will read ANYTHING he writes I dont care if its his grocery list or what. "Atticus's time to be Atticus!" OMG!
I'm 70+. It seems to me that people over 50-60 tends to forget how nasty/naughty they themselves were while teens. I was around in the 1970s, and I'd say today's youth are far better than we were back then.
69 here.I agree. I spent my teens in an industrial city and still shake my head at some of my "adventures ".
Omg the stuff I did I don't even dare to talk about it now
Geez, guess I'm the weirdo. My dad was so strict I and my brothers were too scared to step out of line. We all grew up without getting into a lick of trouble ever.
None of our kids have either.
@@davidguelette7036 Cleveland?
@@vennyxaronski3710 Sounds fun
When I told my parents I wanted to go to college they told me that was fine but that I would have to pay for it myself. I worked two years in a factory unloading trucks and delivering stacks of cardboard to different conveyer belts. I had a boss and co-workers, was treated like an adult, had rules I had to follow, and would get yelled at if I made a mistake. Best thing that ever happened to me. When I went to college, I was an adult and understood responsibility and consequences.
When college costed $7.
Did your boss and/ or co-workers HIT you or otherwise do physical violence to you? There are myriad ways of learning accountability and that actions have consequences that don't involve corporal punishment. Assault IS a crime.
@@PDZ1028 THANK YOU!!!!!
@@Huckster2367 EXACTLY!! hahaha.. and.. why wouldn't his parents pay? that's ridiculous.. maybe pay for books.. or.. their spending habits.. but.. actually.. these days.. your parents tax returns are required until you're 26.. so.. I'm not sure this tactic would work now that a 4 year degree at an "okay" school is $100+k
back when I got my degree (in the early 90s) it cost around $36k.. universities are a racket anyway
Did you turn into a total woke dingaling?
I'll never be a father but I love being an uncle and helping out my siblings with their kids.
I remember being a kid, with the pals, throwing rocks at a goose. Neighbor lady came out and beat the piss out of me. My mom came out at asked her what was going on. Needless to say, and rightly so, my mom said I deserved that ass whooping. I learned a lot that day. RIP Mom.
You unalived your own mother?
So you're telling us that besides beeing violently disciplined by everyone who saw you, you still thought it fine to throw rocks at animals for fun?
@@michaelrossel7339 Forget to take your thorazine today?
@@michaelrossel7339 ummm. No. I'm saying I learned my lesson for being a dumbass.
@@michaelrossel7339 he was a kid, Michael. Or Karen. Or whatever your name is.
In the late 70’s, @ 22 yo, while walking with my girlfriend and dog, in a nearby park we found three little kids probably 8-10 years old, breaking glass soda bottles in the grass, on a hill it was a popular spot for picnics. I went ballistic on them, yelling caught them off guard, I explained to them why it was such a bad idea. They resisted which only turned up my ire, which immediately said you have two choices, one you pick up every last piece of glass 4:31 right now, or you lay in it , hurry up make that decision, now! They cleane it up immediately. I waited while they obeyed my command , with fear. Once it was cleaned up they had to walk 75-100 feet to the nearest garbage can,,they carried the glass in barehands all that way, as I walked behind them right to the can. I gave them some bullshit lecture on why not to ever do it again. They walked off whispering. Then ran… told me to fuck off… I laughed.
If you did that today you would not only risk being prosecuted, you would risk being assaulted by the kids. That is the world we have created.
Just 10 years ago at a sculpture gallery 2 kids were running around coming within inches of $5k works, while their mom was sitting on a bench ignoring them. My wife took matters into her own hands and read them the riot act. Mom got up and sheepishly took her kids out.
@@nick_john Children (young adults) with adolescent emotional skills raising children is not a good plan.
@@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen GOOD.. cuz.. it's NO ONE'S place to do that.. if the PARENTS are around TELL THEM.. if their folks aren't there? call the cops.. or.. post a video and call them out and embarrass TF outta them.. AND have video EVIDENCE to give to law enforcement who can handle the situation..
ADULTS bullying *CHILDREN* (8-10 year olds???) WOW!! *big man*!! and.. sounds like your PROUD of your 🐂💩
if I saw you doing THAT to MY kid?? yeah.. I'd do to YOU what you're so PROUD of doing to CHILDREN and.. YOU'D be running away CRYING
they were breaking bottles.. BAD THING.. they weren't murdering someone or hurting an animal or a smaller child..
KIDS *do* shit they're not supposed to do.. they're CHILDREN and need to make mistakes to LEARN and.. it's not YOUR place to teach them.. ESPECIALLY since you seem GLEEFUL that they were FEARFUL.. that word alone shows that type of motivation is psycho.. I teach MY kids with LOVE and tell them they NEVER have to listen to BULLIES like the 22 year old in the scenario
I'm a parent. I am frequently frustrated by permissive parents. But I also bristle at this bullshit idea that hitting kids is helpful. My dad used to beat the shit out of my brothers and me. That only taught us to lie and hide. We also beat the shit out of each other. Outside of a few extreme instances, we've never hit our kids. They're not assholes, and they don't think that the ability to inflict pain is the same thing as authority.
Kids are bright and capable, for the most part. They need independence AND guardrails. Like most of us, honestly. And if you think kids are annoying assholes, wait until you meet adults.
So much common sense here 👍
Asian kids are always beaten up. I am an Asian myself and I can attest that my abuse made my stronger. At least I don't get offended when someone calls me names or says anything racist because I have better shit to deal with in my life. It's also the same reason you never hear Asian kids complain about how college admissions have become so challenging with quotas for blacks, hispanics.
We deal with shit and move on.
yeah, wouldn't take Sedaris's advice on hitting kids at all. one of their sisters had issues and ended up killing herself...
@@zurzakne-etra7069 I hope he's joking. You can be against violence and make it clear they have to pay their way in the household!
Absolutely...I've been a Special Educator in elementary schools for 2 decades. I also deal with "regular kids". Classroom teachers are expected to teach the children how to be humans, because their parents ARE NOT DOING IT!
that's the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard.. NO ONE pays you for your OPINION.. teach them how to read and write and leave YOUR stupid judgements at the door.. it's NOT your place to say what is or not taught in the home.. mind YOUR business and STAY IN YOUR LANE
educators have a function and your OPINION about KIDS isn't it
That should be a t-shirt.
"It takes a village..."
And a picture of all the neighbors beating the hell out of some snot-nosed kid.
I'd buy 2.
You could have the scene from the movie airplane where they're lining up to calm down that one woman, but instead of the woman, have Macaulay Culkin doing the ahhh face, that hes famous for.
😂😂
That is exactly what I pictured! LOL!!
I buy 3-4,for gifts. And one for me of course.
This is one of those bits that I think hits differently depending on where you are in life. I currently have young kids and so much of my social circle tends to have young kids as well. And my spouse is an elementary teacher. So I feel a fair bit more qualified to chime in on parenting techniques compared to a couple of childless old bachelors. Whether you hit a child or not does squat to raise well behaved kids. It's about modeling behavior. If a child is raised by a drunk abusive father who cheats on his mother, then guess how that kid is going to turn out? Now imagine the opposite - a kid raised in a family where the parents are loving & respectful to each other and they all eat dinner together every night.
I do agree with the jobs bit though - very good for broadening world experience and building up some grit.
Childless old bachelors is one way of saying it clueless old farts is how I would put it.
Modeling behaviour is one part, a very important one, but there's more to it than that, there has to be discipline too if that comes in the form of hitting the kids is a whole other question.
A decade ago, when both of my daughters were in college, I was in a conversation with three other people, all older than me, who had never raised children. They were going on and on about what is wrong with kids and parents, these days. After 15 minutes of it, I stopped them and asked if they'd ever been responsible for raising a child. When they replied, "no", I responded, "Then you're all speaking out of ignorance of the difficulties, of raising children to be fulfilled, functioning adults. Maybe, you should stick to topics, where you have actual experience." Many of the things they felt parents should do, would end up with the parent being arrested. I took developmental psychology, while getting my degree, and it was very helpful in parenting. But, being a good parent is not easy, and ignorant know-it-alls don't make it easier.
@@fisherking7798I think that was the worst take. Hitting your kids is pretty bad for your kids development.
Love it. It's your job as a parent to prepare your children to make their way in the world in a healthy way. The parents work to pay the bills the children should help with chores etc so they are healthy contributing adults. Start working as soon as possible so they know the value of a dollar. It helps with their self esteem to problem solve and see what they are capable of.
I think there's a huge spectrum in what it means to "hit kids" the difference between a swift impersonal (non aggressive) spank (like tapping a dog on the nose) to modify behavior, is completely different than raising a hand in anger. There is all the difference between a brief negative stimuli, and doing physical damage.
Part of the reasons for me not wanting to be a parent are:
1. Making the same mistakes as my parents or worse.
2. Disciplining too harshly or not enough.
I applaud people who take a leap and have kids; I prefer to live my life as is.
My daughter doesn't want children because she knows they are hard work and nothing like the cutesy kids on the commercials. I suppose telling her when she was a teenager and being a brat that I hoped if she had kids they treat her as she was treating me might have had something to do with it.
@@enfys6493 I bet your daughter is an only child.
That's a solution that was forced on you. Someone gave you life and you deserve to have children. But yes, we need to support parents more, or at least not punish them. We humans are so inhumane.
this comment shows how very self-aware you are.. I applaud people who make sound decisions about having or not having kids!! enjoy your life.. just as it is!!!
@@Robin-bk2lm do you personally know OP?? probably not.. so.. how can you OPINE that their choice was FORCED on them and.. NO ONE *deserves* kids.. that's a weird thing to say to a stranger.. because.. maybe they just DON'T..
people in the comment section on social media crack me up
There is so much truth to this. I was a spoiled child and grew up to have no resilience. I never had to develop that muscle. I saw it when I was younger as a blessing, but I later realised when life got tough on me, that it was a handicap. I am happy sometimes my children have obstacles because the shock of realising life doesn't give me everything my parents did was a tough lesson to learn as an adult child.
this comment should put a lot concerned parents' minds at ease. The lesson will be learned, if not now then later. But, always better to learn it now so life will be easier when it gets harder.
These days everybody uses their cell phone as a babysitter and the kids are raised by the internet and the phone is always there with them. Cell phones became mainstream in 2011, so the kids who have been raised on it from the very beginning are going to join the workforce soon, I'd say over the next few years everything is really going to go off a cliff.
I work with kids born after 2000; they are always on their phone instead of working.
I recall that teenage girls had the reputation for always being on the phone.
I’m a Middle School teacher and I don’t agree with your vision of the future of these kids.
@@desireepetitdemurat8660 So the upcoming generation that has the memory of a goldfish and the attention span of a hummingbird because all they do is watch 6 second tick tocks and TH-cam videos is going to completely turn it all around, huh.
How long have you been a teacher?
@@lunacron Since 1979. I’ll give you something, i don’t teach in the States, but anyway, since the beginning of times people have complained about the new generations. As Oscar Wilde once said, “We’re all in the gutter, but some of us look at the stars.”
I get that this is meant to be a more lighthearted segment, but they are so off the mark it's crazy. That whole "you gotta give them an ass-whopping" attitude, you know what it lead to? Kids using that aggression on each other. The bullying that used to occur in the past was crazy. I knew kids who had to be dragged kicking and screaming to school because of how miserable other kids made their lives and yet they would never tell because they would be seen as a snitch and too many adults would just see it as "kids being kids". Nowadays kids are just so much nicer to each other.
Oh, and those crappy low paying jobs? Personally, I didn't learn anything from them. They were just a tool for big companies to get a cheap labor force that they could treat as badly as they wanted because it didn't matter given how high the turnover was. And the reason why parents don't make their kids work such jobs is because college is so expensive that it's far better for a kid in high school to focus on getting a scholarship instead. Companies can complain all they want about how "kids these days just don't want to work" if what you're paying them doesn't even begin to cover their expenses why would they come work for you?
Ruling with fear is the worst thing you can do to someone. I had a horrible childhood being beaten by my mom and will always be damaged by that. So this is the most stupid conversation I have seen in a while.
I agree, but I think there some truth to what there saying. I also think it's, because most kids are raised by their smart phones instead of their parents.
That was a stupid comment. There is a difference between disciplining your child and plain out abusing it. Fact that you can't tell the difference is quite telling of your age.
My grandmother has crippled, scar covered hands because she was beaten in school, by the teachers. Girls were punished by beating the fingers with a metal ruler.
What did she do to deserve this punishment? Well, at age 6 during her first year in school, she had a massive diphtheria infection. She was hospitalized for months and had hearing loss (wich nobody bothered to diagnose.)
She could not read when she got back to school as nobody told her in hospital. And she physically could not hear the teachers commands. Thus she was beaten daily for her "inobedience", "stubbornness" and "lazyness".
I'd like to invite everyone who thinks beating children into submission is a good idea to a no-safeword-session in my basement, for a discussion of the topic.
This an extreme example, and not at all the topic of discussion here. What you just explained is not at all the same as smacking a kid for being rude, or stealing, or breaking something.
@@philtorrez4198 If beating children is allowed at all, you will see extreme examples.
These two are comedians! It’s a joke! But the truth is kids have become absolutely without fear. I did not spank or hit my children, and don’t believe corporal punishment but they certainly got punished, in ways that really hurt them, like taking away their video games, phones etc. My number one button was lack of respect and I went hard on that. But having conversations about the behaviour is key.
Nobody is advocating for your extreme case which is out of context for the discussion. You seem to have a violent streak yourself which you should take a closer look at.
What school did she go to? Was it a religious one by any chance and why didn't she tell anyone that she couldn't hear? Surely her parents must have realised she had lost her hearing? Your story makes no sense and I question it as I have the right to do.
David Sedaris is one of my favorite writers~!
I’m 50 and I’ve had 20 something’s complain to my boss if I even reference that I’ve had more experience than them. I’m apparently guilty of ageism. F them. They’re guilty of ageism. My condition’s only getting worse. If youth is a condition, it’s one that always cures itself.
In an actual Lord of the fFles situation that actually happened the children got along very well and team together as a harmonious group to overcome their situation. They weren’t found for several years.
That's not what these boomers want to hear. They just hate kids and love being violent so they want an excuse to beat them.
this is TRUE.. they cared for each other.. when one broke a leg? they fashioned a splint and TOOK CARE of him!! they worked COOPERATIVELY and survived several years (I believe).. and.. when they were finally found? they were in good health a all of them survived because they took care of each other!!
thanks for the reminder.. people like this idiot that Bill is talking to need to STOP TALKING
Exactly, Maher hasn't read the book, I guess cos he spent his youth smoking low grade hash and his middle age snorting cocaine. I think Sedaris is just fucking with Maher and showing him up to an old fart.
Completely correct. The real life incident the book was based upon got things completely backward.
The funniest thing about Sedaris, is how he's dressed. It's like he forgot this wasn't a Zoom interview.
read the book - "hold on to your kids". it explains exactly why kids are so different these days and how to fix it. it's all about kids getting too attached to their peers rather than their parents/community and that is driving all the problems we see today. very enlightening.
Hmmm the family role is being replaced in modern society, and guess who's promoting it...
Edit: who's promoting the replacement of the family role
Kids today are more attached to their parents than ever before. Whoever wrote that book is a fucking idiot.
My parents would tell adults we knew, “if you see them acting up smack the shit outta them..”. Then we’d get smacked again for making someone smack us.
You don't have to hit your kids. You just have to be willing to tell them "NO". 🙄
"NO" without a consequence is gonna stop working real quick
@@olekanuriel9359 There are other consequences besides physical abuse.
Exactly. I don’t think people realize what happens when parents use corporal punishment and the patterns and behaviours that can develop over time from it. If a parent hits their kid every time, there is a risk of increasing the severity of punishment putting your child in danger. I used to work in the child welfare sector and ppl just don’t realize how bad it can get and the outcomes it leads to. This segment was brutal 🙄
Don't take away their phone, they'll hang themselves within the hour. Or do.
And other people should be able to tell your kids NO as well.
I raised three children which became wonderful, caring and responsible adults. Never once did I strike or hit them while educating them in the ways of the world. I’m so relieved Mr Sedaris never had children if all he can come up with is the importance of parents or their friends to hit them! I never cared for his writing or point of view in things. Now I really despise this gentleman for toying with one of the worst scenarios societies face, child abuse.
Bill's last interaction with children was when he read Lord of the Flies in grade school. Like the show, but he's no expert on kids. Let the pilot fly the plane, Bill, as you like to say. 😃
Indeed
I don't have kids. But I and the rest of society have to suffer with the results of what breeders do. So, we do have a say. P.S. Some pilots fly the plane into the ground.
@@ge2623 imagine thinking you get to tell parents how to raise children when the only thing you're concerned with is those children behaving in a way that benefits you.
@@RavenKnightmare I don't want to tell them anything. I just want them to stop breeding.
@@ge2623 The results of those "breeders" are going to be working to pay your social security benefits and will be electing officials to decide what happens to you in your dotage. Just think about that for a moment.....
I was at a local restaurant and in the next booth was a family. The mother was changing the baby’s diaper on the seat while her three year old stood on the table….I glared heavily at him and barked, “GET DOWN”.
My kids got jobs at 15. They’ve always had their own money and made choices on how to spend or save it. If Bill thinks what its like on TV is representative of how it is in real life, he’s forgotten that TV is fiction. Sure, some kids are awful but so are some adults; apple rarely falls far from the tree. Kids help keep you young and humble - Bill is showing signs of “old man” attitude
Tv is designed to indoctrinate the people and convince them this is how we are supposed to be. I'm glad my mom who never slapped me - in the 50-60s - called the tv the idiot box and said go play or weed the garden or hang the clothes or something.
This man literally signed my book last night with "hit em" as his best quote or advice for teachers. I'm obviously not going to hit a kid but I like that he says that stuff that sometimes in other people's heads
While he is joking, to some extent, he is actually right. My mother believed in corporal punishment. If you act out, I will bop you upside the head. No, it wasn’t abusive in nature, and she wasn’t trying to harm me, but as a child, I didn’t understand that this behavior was not OK. We know that a child’s mind hasn’t developed the concept of good bad thoroughly. We’ve seen children commit crimes and we don’t charge them as adults because we know they don’t have the mind of an adult. Well, in certain situations, a kid can miss behave and sometimes you can see the child down and explain to them. Miss behaving as bad as they get I shouldn’t do this, but for some children, pain is a valuable lesson. Once again, I’m not talking about abuse of pain, but my three-year-old niece keeps reaching for the cookies and I say no you can’t have cookies and she keeps doing it. I’ll tap on the back of the hand let her know this is not acceptable, young lady. The tap is harmful to her. She flinches away and she knows oh I better not touch that. You know we all have that lesson we talk about when you touch a hot stove and you learn. Oh don’t touch the stove. It’s a similar concept. No I don’t think a parent should bulldoze their child into a wall. If you’re going to practice, corporal punishment with your child, you have to be able to separate your anger with the child from the actual punishment.
My great grandfather, whose dad practiced corporal punishment, but his dad had a system to it. He kept the book you get five strikes that’s when you get the belt. You could build up all the strikes you want it but when it got to five, that was the day you would receive your corporal punishment drop those pants. So my great grandfather knew he was on a system and he did mess up and he say all I’m not gonna get it today but when he got four strikes, he was on his best behavior, but as a kid, we do dumb things and he will get that fifth strike and he would know it’s time for the corporal punishment, I have to pay the piper. I’ve done wrong he learned I shouldn’t do these things and his father while he was dishing out the corporal punishment he wasn’t necessarily upset or angry because it wasn’t the actual time when the offenses head long past, and he could simply process fifth, strike for the child 10 taps with the belt those are the rules. So anger never played a factor in the corporal punishment. It was always what were the rules five strikes 10 taps with the belt. Sort of like a criminal justice system. What’s the crime that was committed? What is the sentence that is to be handed down. There was never any deviation from it. It was always the same thing. Until the child that older, and he understood I know the rules. I won’t break the rules. As a young teenager he never broke the rules again. A funny thing happened, though, as his other siblings, saw how the rules were implemented and executed guess what they didn’t break the rules either.
This is one of those questions like the death penalty, where it sounds like an appropriate remedy *in some cases*, but you wouldn't want to have such a policy in effect because you can't trust everyone with that kind of power. Hitting kids is along the same lines -- are you really going to trust *all parents* with this type of power?
I read a lot of online advice columns. And the idea now is that when a child acts up, you first try to reason with them. Then, you should try to understand why they're acting out. If all else fails, try to soothe them, distract them, and always be nurturing and caring. As if this is going to get them ready for the real world. Because if/when they get a job, no, the boss isn't going to hold your hand, or empathize, or try to understand and cater to your feelings. They want the job done right, right now, and then get onto the next thing. All too often, kids talk about their "rights"; seldom do they want to discuss their responsibilities. As Maher said, it used to be that if you did something wrong, the neighbors would yell at you. Then they told your parents, and you'd get scolded again. And chances were good you'd be forced to apologize to the neighbors for being stupid. Now? That would be tantamount to child abuse, the child would be traumatized, and more likely than not, the parents would tell the neighbor to MYOB.
One difficulty is that the word "children" can refer to anyone who is "not yet an adult." What you described is appropriate for a child between the ages 2 to 5 (before they understand abstractions such as cause and effect, can anticipate outcomes, and have conscious impulse control). For someone so new to the world, and with a brain that is not fully developed, it doesn't do any good to hit or punish them because they don't understand any of it. At this age, the adult's job is to help the child develop the skills and understanding they will need to be successful in their perceptions and their actions. By the time children are in their ELEMENTARY school years, adult responses need to be more direct. It is then that children can be held accountable. At this age, they are attempting to understand concepts such as fairness, justice, and rules in general.
MOre David Sedaris please!!
Arguing for hitting kids must be the most idiotic thing I have ever heard.
Teaching respect by violence. Sounds like a good plan.
Of course you can get well behaved kids without hitting them.
Bill: sometimes you are an uneducated prick with too much confidence in your own ideas.
Bill loves the smell of his own farts
Yeah but Sedaris was just as bad on this subject.
I know many who never hit their children and they are respectful adults. People use that excuse for an excuse to hit their kids. I've known many beaten who are in jail (husband was a cop) and many who grew into bullies. There isn't a one size fits all but if being hit with a belt is the only way you know to make a child a good human being, it's sad. Quicker than most things but sad.
I'm not far off Bill's age and a slap around the legs did no one any harm, it made us think twice about doing wrong again. Look at modern kids and young adults, are they really that great because all I see are entitled whiney brats who have no respect, just look at the current crop of high ranking politicians and I bet old Donnie was a cossetted brat who never heard the word 'no'
It’s a joke, people. Nothing David Sedaris says is serious.
Let's all crush their spirit so they can be good workers.
Basically
I am 53 years old . My mother babysat every kid on the block . I knew at a young age I did not want kids .
They no longer give children consequences for their behavior. We have taken the word consequences and made it negative. Consequences can be positive or negative. You always address the behavior with consequences. Say an ice cream cone for good behavior or stand in the corner for 10 minutes for not good behavior. Common sense one and one equals two
We just got a bunch of parents and children that are WAY to self-important. You literally got people in this country who would save their dog or cat over a random human. I see the lack of consideration when I drop my son off at school every day. Parents will take 5+ minutes to get their kid out of the car and then have to watch the little bastard walk all the way to the door with no consideration for the 10 cars behind them that might be late smh.
So, you're saying there are OTHER PEOPLE in the world besides ME? Wow, what a concept.
My stepfather had three names for me: “Pick Up Your Feet!” “Do you want the belt?” “I’ll give you something to cry about!”
sounds like my Mom
😂🙈
For everyone on here saying you don’t have to have physical punishments for any kid and that you just need to take their phone/video games away. That type of punishment only works if your kid is already hopelessly addicted to them. My sister’s kids are like this and I can’t stand them. They had a near mental breakdown when I was driving and they lost reception for 45 min. (Ones 8 the other is 14)
It works for her to threaten to take them away because they don’t know how to function without them.
But give it time soon even taking away a kids phone will be seen as forced isolation and mental abuse.
I grew up with game systems, computers, phones, and so on, if my mom said she was taking any of them away ( especially if I knew it was temporary) I would of just moved on to the next thing or got in more trouble because I wasn’t distracted.
Only thing that ever made me behave was the threat of “I’m telling your dad when he gets home”.
After the first few spankings he never needed to do it again because the threat was enough to make me remember the consequences.
Thank god someone finally said something about how rude kids are. I didn't get hit often but maybe that was because I got the lesson after a couple of fails. I was a very respectful kid. I haven't seen one of those in ages.
Let's just put it this way: if my teacher said something bad about me to my parents, I was in trouble. Nowadays, if a teacher says something bad about a kid to the parents, the teacher is in trouble.
I think you don't get out much.
@@helenbodel3974 Honey, I am over 50. I was sick of partying by age 30 - that should tell you how often I got out. But then me and my friends weren't sucking an electronic titty all day.
Cheerleading for underpaid child labor isn't as noble as they think it is.
Bill is just high on pot and his own farts. Must be a hell of a drug, those farts.
Unless you're the Governor of Arkansas.
A few hours of volunteer work each week is hardly 'unpaid child labor'.
It the absolutism that is wrong. Zero corporal punishment is a bad idea. But not every child requires an ass whooping to learn to be civilized. In fact, most don't. They just need good examples. Some, though, need to know that their actions have real world consequences. And, in those cases, a flick in the ear is usually enough.
Bill maher’s whole understanding of children comes from TV and lord of the flies
And yet he's still correct.
@Jim H. I have yet to read an actual Lord of the flies situation ever occur in recorded history with kids. But I have encyclopedias full of when adults act like Lord of the flies... oops, yeah, adults are morons and feral too.
Two Boomers talking: "You know what I miss? Child labor. These children don't yearn for the mines like they use to."
Surprisingly Hilarious interview even though i always thought his sister Amy was funnier.it takes a village 🤣
1:52
Bill gave a whole new meaning to It Takes a Village to Raise a Child
There are many inattentive and unskillful parents out there, and that’s bad for kids and all of us. But it also seems important to note that hitting and intimidating are no way to inspire good-heartedness and truly considerate behavior. Discipline is teaching, and like all teaching it can be frustrating and difficult. But to be effective, it must be based in respectful treatment, consistency, establishing expectations and following through when they aren’t met-again and again-with related and reasonable consequences. It takes commitment, creativity and compassion to get through the inevitable rough patches. Not a job for the immature…yet many have it.
“I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.”
Well said
Not only are adults not civilizing their children, many parents are radicalizing them.
Kids were kids three thousand years ago. They still are. Nothing has changed.
Two words - Video games!
Correct
Most young people (under 30!) today have NO work ethic. They were spoiled rotten and pampered by they parents all the way to the end of the line. My first job at age 14 was as a paperboy for The Hartford Courant in Conn. where I grew up. I had to get up at the crack of dawn in the dead of WINTER and push a fully-loaded shopping cart up steep hills in the SNOW so folks could read the paper over they morning coffee. In my 20s I worked TWO jobs to put myself thru college (NO student loans needed!!) And FYI as a GAY man, the absolute BEST thing about being gay was NOT having kids.
As a STRAIGHT man, the absolute BEST part about being straight is not having kids.
27-year-old gay man here. You're right about the best part of being gay is not having kids. Your first point is silly. I work just as hard if not harder than my much older coworkers. To say every young person is lazy is stupid.
Back in the day all the neighbors looked out for the kids and generally had permission to whip their ass as well
Exactly, they would smack you if you were misbehaving but would also defend you without hesitation if you were in any danger!
@@blaketindle4703 a great world it was I adventured all over the place
Yes! And when my mom spoke up to my father, he slapped that bitch right in the face! And we ALL got molested. It built character!
I really do think teenagers need to work the crappy fast food minimum wage jobs so they can appreciate a good job when it comes up. I know a person who was making good money but quit because they asked her to pick up HER trash and she said that is not my job and walked out.
@@TooMuchDramaInTheMilkyWay you hsve no idea what country I live in. Your stats may not even be applicable to me.
The person who made this comment must have had a stroke or something
We live in a time when people have no respect for any kind of authority, from parents and teachers on up.
Respect is earned. And Boomers have consistently shown they don’t deserve it 😊
Well, if they'd be respectable it would probably help a lot.
The "every kid gets a trophy" kids grew up and made children even worse than they were. It's a trend that will continue to grow worse and worse. And he definitely needs to get Sedaris on his podcast, this discussion needed more time to be fully fleshed out.
David Sedaris is my favorite author! Love his audiobooks…I could listen to his voice all day!😍😍
Sedalia?
I doubt you cant spell your “favourite” authors name
Damn auto-correct! Fixed it!
these guys sound old
If a parent can't teach their children how to behave without hitting them, that is uncivilized.
Love David Sedaris. Thanks.
I love how the two persons who hate kids and never raised them, seem to think they know most about educating children 🙄
let me add that before my husband and myself had a child we were really sure we knew how to do it. after the mysyery became clear we made a physical effort to apologize to those folks wr thought we were smarter than. And their response was its ok we knew you would find out. children really grow do grow their adults up too.
@@elizabethpeterson56 Why are there so many immature parents then?
Kids these days...
Surely no one ever looked at Bill Maher's generation that way when he was young. Oh wait...
David's Christmas elf story is a staple every year. Check it out.
...a SWITCH??
Participation prizes teach kids to fail at life. Life is hard, so we have to learn how to be good losers and learn from our failures to do better next time. There's no participation prize for getting turned down for a date or not getting the job you want, and then we wonder why kids overreact to the slightest thing and why there are many more school shootings lately than decades ago when guns were more common. Kids need to be taught how to bounce back from failures
And in order to bounce back, they have to first fail and acknowledge their culpability in that failure.
It takes a village. With sticks. That hit.
😂
Hahahahah
Except now there is no single village idiot, the whole village is just idiots.
This is a fucking weird conversation, not because of what they are talking about, but because of the constant laughter on the background. I could see this conversation happening in a podcast with zero laughter and it would change the tone of it completely.
Just as the video cuts, Sedaris says "it's important for them to serve me". While he was half-joking (?) He does bring up an important point. As someone who worked retail and hospitality jobs well into my 20s, I've always agreed with the idea that everyone, as a part of their growing up process, should spend some time in a job where they need to serve others. I suspect society would be better off. On the flipside, if you enjoy "Karen" videos on social media, you'd probably run out of material pretty fast.
Very small percentage of kids actually want to get out there and start working. We have a 12-year-old who hates school but is willing to work with/for me in my small business for a little extra cash. And it's because of that, I'm not worried about his distaste for school. He'll be just fine when he grows up, even if he chooses not to attend college but go straight to work. In all honesty, I'd prefer that he not go to college, but find work that is willing to train him and learn a skill. As long as they have the desire to work for money, they'll never be a failure.
Now, I have a friend who is very concerned about his 17-year-old daughter who graduates next year and has ZERO desire to work nor any idea of what she wants to do for a living... and I think there are a ton of teens in that category, which is scary because they're the ones who will be complaining they don't have money and will vote for universal basic income and then our path to full on socialism will be complete. Thanks, Democrats.
I love that Maher, who consistently complains about ageism proudly declares that he hates kids. I also love that that these 2 men who never had the courage to try parenting think they know what the rest of us are doing wrong and declare that it's "the cause of all our problems."
Good point
The problems stem from people telling the 'kids' that they have soooo many rights, but, fail to impress on them that with those 'rights' comes 'Responsibilities' as well ?
I told one of my Jiu Jitsu buddies the other day that I don't think you have a genuine moral compass if your Mom or Dad didn't slap you in the mouth at least once when you smarted off.
Socrates said the same thing. Give me a break you guys. Kids are kids always.
I love someone having opinions about children based on "what they see on TV and movies".
Right? The guy probably hasn't had a genuine interaction with someone under the age of 20 in decades.
"They cant ALL be wrong!"
Have children, have seen their friends, have been around them up close and personal. He's dead on.
Back in the day there was no autism. Acting up was cured with the belt.
No autism, eh? There's a difference between "disciplinarian" and "moron".
Sedaris is still funny after all these years. 👍
I started my first job when I was 14 as a dishwasher. $20 of my paycheck went into the "house money" jar.
Speaking as someone who raised two boys and taught elementary school for 13/23 years teaching. While it's true that kids are too smart for their own good these days, the opinions of two men who never had kids get little respect from me. Most of the time I enjoy Bill's thoughts, but there are some areas where he shows his ignorance.
Nailed it. So tired of this crap. People who really hate kids should be telling everyone how to raise their kids - what a joke!
Kids with manners are far and in-between.
Yeah, that's right I said it!
I didn't have the world's
best parents.
But my Mom taught us the basics. Say excuse me when you walk in front of a person. Hold the door for others. Always say please & thank you. Do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
You can spot a kid anywhere who had an elder who taught them the basics!
Always look for the helpers.
~ Mr Roger's
Two rich, old, out of touch men who have never had children are scared the kids aren't alright because they're not beaten enough these days.
Pretty much
Jonathan Haidt has written/talked about this, how zoomers (1995-onward) are entering college with much less life experience than any prior generation. They are less likely to have had jobs, dated, have a driver's license, etc. And we're seeing the impact as that generation and even later Millennials have become writers or run departments and they just have little or no real life experience, so many are stunted children.
Damn!!!! David is probably the funniest guest on real time EVER!!!!
every generation on their way out has said this for different reasons since the beginning of time. Also if you celebrate getting smacked around by your parents, get help.
I also have no interest in having kids, but I think you're reasons are little off. Seriously? Kids should be made to work? Kids should be smacked?
I grew up getting smacked until I was 13. Guess why my parents stopped at that age? Cuz I was big enough to beat the shit out of them. And I worked in the summers in my teen years. It was hell! Look, I don't have kids, and there's a long list of reasons to not wanna have any kids (or to not like kids), but "kids not working" and "kids not getting hit" is not one of em.
So you would have hit your parents back? By 13 I was bigger than my mom but when she (occasionally) hit me I took it respectfully.
@amitabhhajela681 if someone puts me in pain, they're getting that pain back. And it wasn't "occasionally" that they did it!! It was every fuckin week!!
+1
They are exactly right about kids. I had worked since I was 9 years old---mowed yards and worked at my grandparents farm---I always told my kids they were gonna work growing up----that's one thing I'm very proud of--their work ethic. They don't complain---they want money? They gotta work for it.
Whereas Sedaris is always a deeply funny, sensitive genius, Mahar is often quite full of it. Noting that I grew up in the SF suburbs where I knew ONE girl who was hit. She was my best friend and, even when I was away, she'd go over to my home to be safe. She left home at 18, moved into the city and created a new family there, made up of friends and adults who cared for her.
Does anyone know what the essay title David Sedaris is paraphrasing from or book of his this is in? (He read this on his tour and it was hilarioussss but I didn’t get the title)
There's an entire facet of one's personality that only really unfolds with the process of raising children. Sure it's a wild and brutal ride at times, but it's also a way to access moments of joy you would otherwise consider unthinkable. Maher will never understand this.
Funniest initial interview in a looong time.
It's healthy to have a fear of consequences. That went by the wayside around the early 90s, I think.
Around the 80's they started pulling up the ladder behind them. By the 90's it was clear that you were going to get the negative consequences no matter what you did - it was peak "punish everyone 'cause we're too lazy to find out who was actually responsible". There has to be hope for good consequences to properly regulate behavior. Otherwise you get learned helplessness or no moral compass. Thanks Boomers.
@@danrbarlow I think your statement is true also. My comment was mainly about small children.
I 100% agree that the ladder was pulled up in the 80s and that the likelihood of becoming even comfortably middle class and saving a retirement nest egg is nearly zero.
My own take on this is that most societal problems are caused when parents don’t beat their kids enough, or when they beat them too much.
Maybe it's just different in small towns, but I'd say most teenagers had part time jobs when I was in high school. That was 20 years ago, but I actually don't think things have changed that much, at least where I live. I also work at a place that employs mostly teenagers. Some of our cliental are teenagers and most of them have jobs, too.
I will say though that in the last 5 years a large percentage of the "low skill" retail jobs are now being done by Indian immigrants. So maybe things will be drastically different in 5 years.
No corporal punishment but make teens go build houses for the homeless (with no wifi) for the summer. Screens have made them lazy, selfish and completely incompetent.
David, I know you don’t read these comments but your dentist has done a wonderful job of your smile. And you’re using it….your smile.
What a couple of charming old reactionaries!
Getting better all the time,age brings some benefits.Great show tonight.
In the late 80s early 90s 6 words my mum use to say on minor occasions when l was a kid put a bit of fear in me. It was “Wait until your father gets home”. After hearing that l would try and do a couple of chores to try and get on his good side. I laughed at what AJ did in The Sopranos when he stayed in a city hotel overnight and came home with his eyebrows shaved off. “Hey dad just putting out the garbage”.
I knew the words before I got a line above them.
Am I the only one super annoyed by Bill’s audience? Is it a laugh track or something? Why does the audience feel the need to laugh hysterically every 5 seconds 😅 kinda ruins the conversation.