Completely agree. I generally really like the book despite its many flaws because I just enjoy spending time wity these characters. But Adolin, Sigzil and Szeth genuinely had me invested and hooked.
I disagree. It was good but he had that plot armor that makes the stakes go so low. As soon as we were told the name of the bad bad fuse, we knew that the final boss fight would be with him. So Adolin had the plot armor until the very end. It was a good arc but it never felt like the scene "Honor is dead but I'll see what I can do." Back then, you could still assume something bad could happen but not in Wind and Truth.
@@nicodemogawronski2052 I felt that Adolin dying to free Azir was a realistic possibility, this is the end of the arc after all, plenty more named characters could have died.
This completely missed the point. The point is not that Fen is disappointed in Jasna, but that she thinks Jasna is right to worry for her own people, and as a queen Fen should strive to do the same. The deal Fen got for Thaylen was the best thing for her people. Why care about what feels right, why care about the greater good when Odium has proven that even the smartest, most logical person, cares for themselves and their people first and foremost
@@DuelingMarubecause Jasnah and Fen had a good relationship? Fen saw only evil from Odium, yet she sides with him betraying her friend... Horrible. Literally deletes the entire point of book 3...
@@AleksandarIvanov69 Fen is a queen. She knows that she need to put the need of her people first. She knows that while Odium is evil, he cannot break promises, but Jasna can and will break promises for her selfish "greater good". The line of thinking "I'm close to you and he's evil so I won't join him" is so so childish. The part that's not good is it doesn't really matter, as Odium has plan to take Thaylen regardless. This whole debate with Jasna is pretty pointless, it's just Odium working Jasna up to serve him
I like how everyone is in their heads the whole time, ultimately concluding that they should do whats best for their mental health, meanwhile the world is ending. Like, really guys... you couldn't wait 10 days?
I think where Navani ends up will be a major part of her relationship with the sibling because a major point of conflict between them is using spren in fabrials and now she is the one being trapped
So many people have said they were somewhat disappointed by Sigzil's story because they had already read the Sunlit man. As someone who hasn't read The Sunlit Man yet, I thought his POV parts were awesome! I think Sanderson should have waited to release TSM until after this book.
Tbh I really enjoyed Sig's plotline because I had already read TSM and was keeping my eyes out for everything in his POV that could be buildup for TSM. Then, the book threw me for a loop when I realized the entire setup for Sunlit happens entirely within WaT, not over the next few books like I thought.
You really articulated my biggest issue with this one, which was the heavy-handedness of the internal processing going on across so many of the POV characters. It often felt repetitive and just not organic to these characters or what they’d truly be thinking in some of these moments. I’m right with you on what you said at the end about how most of these characters actually had full cathartic arcs already by the time this book started, so there just wasn’t somewhere satisfying for them to go besides just spinning wheels.
I just hate how on the nose everyone's mental health issues are expressed and dealt with in this book. You don't need to hang a lampshade (more like a cover to a neon sign) that X character has this issue. We understand that through the conflict of the story and how they respond to that conflict. It's like the characters are facing a proverbial camera going "hi, I have PTSD" a lot of the time. I sincerely hope Sanderson takes this as a learning opportunity to bring some more subtly and care into this sort of thing. It's not enough to just acknowledge it through patronizing dialogue and inner monologues.
First of all, great vlog overall - it was very fun to listen to your predictions and opinions knowing what happens in the end and it served as a great recap. Now, I loved the book, with all its flaws. I agree that having everyone being so on point in their reasoning and self perseption was at times too much. Everyone was a biiiit to good and understanding to one another and selves. BUUUUT I can forgive this on the main cast because almost everyone had whole books and jurneys about discovering and fighing their issues and now, on book 5 they are.. ready. Kal is happy, Shallan is more aware of her personas and limits, Navani and Dalinar are stronger, they are ready to listen and learn. It makes sense for them to be at the end of the journey. Now, Szeth and Nale... they way they were helped it was ok, even great but it was too fast. Most of the weakness came from the ten-days structure. Kal and Szeth quest could be done in a couple of weeks and everyone would agree with the therapist arc but here is was only a week. Now I am split because it loved the structure in terms of suspense and how well worked for Adolin ( best character arc in the book). I also consider the Cosmere being the biggest thing happening in fantasy during our time and Stormlight 5 is a great step forward but more of a setup then a conclusion to an arc. I consider that many loose strings will have payoffs in the later books but it's a lot of time until then and I get why some people are upset. Some wild predictions: Adolin will duel the Blackthorn version of Dalinar Kal will fight again and will have an Avengers moment with the Heralds. Shallan will be a great, but scared parent - Pattern will love to entertain and study the child. Navani is keeping the Tower alive, somehow. Lyft and Zahel? - best duo of the next books Venli will do something really important with the Well. The Well is a huge deal. Retribution will be more careful and also more prepared next time someone challanges it..him. Rlain and Renarin - couple goals for next book - also people will hate them for their relationship. Jasnah - will have a badass arc but will suffer a lot too. She will face the past and the fact that she cannot do as much as she thought. Hoid will be Hoid. God, I have so many thoughts about this book. If someone read all that, hope you have a great week and there will be more on the review.
Merphy just know that I am so excited for this vlog to come out. And had a blast watching it. Especially while there was some things you liked and disliked about the book. So thank you! Also I love when after you say your complaints about a particular area you pause and say “Ok now let me say something nice” 😂I love it how hilarious.
I found you years ago because of Wheel of Time and forgot because One Piece swept you away. But after I read wind and truth, I wanted the thoughts of a TH-camr I trusted and was very pleased and excited to find this. Edit: I love one piece. I was swept away with you
I'm still only 60% through this after 2 months lmao. The book is just a chore to read. I think I was burnt out before I started though. I'll watch this when I'm done.
As someone whose favorite storyline was Kaladin's, this is definitely an interesting perspective. Also, Hoid didn't have two dawnshards. He only has one. He used his powers to keep his from trying to combine with Rysn's
I always thought Szeth was forced by his father to not use his name because Szeth shamed the family. His flashbacks flipped that on its head with all the sacrifices his father made and Szeth choosing to distance himself from his father.
I'm so glad you didn't like the Yasna Odium debate. I was disappointed in all 3 of them. Yasna for not adapting to the personal angle, Odium just didn't have great arguments and Fen for ultimately choosing The Big Bad because she didn't agree with Yasna on her past actions, actions Yasna set up before ever knowing Fen. Also, it was literally raised and dismissed that Dalinar was no longer untrustworthy because of the growth, yet Yasna wasn't given that same grace??!! Ugh.
I absolutely agree on the whole "Everyone is doing the same things in slightly different flavors"! When I went through the secret projects, my thoughts were "Oh, this just the same book over and over with different characters in different settings - some better, some worse, but it's all just exploring how Connection works, so that's probably going to be the big thing in Wind and Truth and he's trying to hammer out his thoughts on how this works mechanically" and then we got Wind and Truth as the exact same format of the same beats in different flavors but Connection still didn't get used much despite being the driving force behind how literally everything worked in the book. Part of the issue, I think, is that there was clearly a push for this being a specific thing plot-wise, but also was supposed to be the Skybreaker book, so the lack of a clear line made it suffer overall
I'm glad you didn't DNF it, even if you didn't ultimately love it. I liked hearing your thoughts. I have been really surprised by the (much) less than stellar reactions to this book. I loved it! The sheer amount of time spent in the past might have rendered me incapable of critical thinking. Lol. I just love history, even made up fantasy history.
finally someone else that loved the spiritual realm 😅 it was my favourite part of the book and what kept me going when I would hit a less interesting chapter
Oh boy, time to make a cup of tea and settle in. Been waiting for this. Yeah i think we are on the same page with this one. The only storyline here that didn't leave me with a bad taste in my mouth is Adolin. Really appreciate that young man. The rest for ever excellent beat, for every scene or set up that got me excited there would be some peice of cheese or poorly communicated concept that feel like hitting a pot hole at speed with my mouth open. I enjoy the state the book left us in, i think it's really interesting and i'm keen for book 6. But ho darn, not the best of rides.
agreed. it just seems like Brandon was really low on inspiration for this book. it really lacked his typical level of emotion. this is the only stomrlight book that didn't make me shed a single tear. Dalinars death should have made me ball but its was so quick and emotionless
@@deadcaptainjames6045 > typical level of emotion. hasn't he always been lacklustre at conveying emotions though? His strength was worldbuilding and I don't think he can stand on the same ground as tolkien or GRRM (or even Rothfuss if I'm being honest) when considering basically everything else lol
@@jcon2060 It depends on what kinds of emotions you mean. He's fantastic with how his characters portray doubts, exasperation, hope as well as hopelessness, contentment and longing. His style may be simple, but really the emotional writing is one of the cornerstones of Sanderson's writing, in a way that I personally find far more moving than literally anything Rothfuss ever wrote, even if it was nicer to read while doing it. I'm not saying that you have to agree with me or anything, just that I agree with the Dead Captain that when I was going through this book it felt 70-80% devoid of what we typically got from Brandon in what I've come to regard as central to his craft, and that's really weird.
@jcon2060 to me this book was exactly what I was expecting. People complain about his prose, it always been boring. People complain about his juvenile humor, it's always been juvenile. To me Wind and Truth was on the same level of everything he's written. On the 5th book of a series you would think people would know what to expect. On the 17th book in the cosmere, come on People we know what we're getting.
The first time someone (Sigzil) renounced their oaths I thought it was awesome. The 2nd time someone (Szeth) renounced their oaths I was like "Again? Well ok sure". The 3rd time someone (Dalinar) renounced their oaths to resolve the big plot that the book revolved around, I felt empty... Unfortunately the death of Dalinar, who was my favorite character, fell flat for me. Never would've thought that was possible going in. Adolin and Sigzil were really the only arc's that met or exceeded my hopes. The rest not so much.
At risk of sounding condescending, I believe you are missing the point a bit. Sure 3 characters did the same thing but they each did for a different reason. Sigzil to save a life, Szeth because it was the right thing for him and Dalinar because he knows its what is best for the power of Honour. It cycles back the idea that maintaining an oath is wrong if the ideal behind holds no value. What DID annoy me is the fact that Sigzil's spren was upset with him for what he did. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HE SAVED YOUR LIFE. She was a very supportive and understanding Spren the whole book but Sigzil breaks their bond and suddenly she doesnt wanna see him? Stupid.
@adoniscreed403 I get your point regarding the reasons for it being different, but that doesn't change how it felt like an overused plot device. If Dalinar was the only person to do it I think his scene would've had more impact on me. This is all subjective.
@@obijuan-kenobi5117if the first 2 occurrences hadn’t happened, you (or other people) would have been like “what the heck that came out of nowhere”. It’s called foreshadowing and a consistent theme
@@slidenaway I think I have a better grasp on what my personal opinion would've been than you do, and you're wrong. I loved the first instance of it with Sigzil. It was probably the biggest emotional moment of the book for me. The following times it happened didn't work as well for me. It might've worked for you and others, and that's great! You can't project your subjective opinions of art onto other people. It worked for you, it didn't for me. It is what it is.
I'm sad that Stormlight turned into this direction but elated that through this disappointment i discovered Sun Eater which has became my new obsession
Yeah I think Sanderson needs to scale back his grand designs. Like I'm into the cosmere only as long as the individual books remain good, this book felt like it needed another year in the oven and now it's the last stormlight we are getting for 8 years... I'd read stormlight 6 now, but I don't think I'll want to with 8 years to sit on the absolute mediocrity of WaT.
It’s been interesting to read Sanderson’s response to some of this criticism (your criticisms are very similar to the overall fandom’s). Sanderson talked about how he thinks broadening the scope of the story has led to a lot of the issues people are having with later books. I think his output of content has actually hurt him in some ways (the seventeenth shard has even said that the four secret projects in 2023 left stormlight five with less time than it probably needed) and that’s led to less thought provoking stories. He’s also on a time crunch with his life expectancy and so I wonder if he hasn’t been able to really pause and reflect on deeper and more complex themes for his stories. I felt the same finishing the book. I was really sad that I was disappointed. This book felt very YA for an adult fantasy series. Not that that genre is bad but he set a different genre expectation with stormlight that I don’t think he delivered on fully.
If the cosmere has to scale down a bit to make the actual books not suck then scale it down. Undercooking the series at the heart of the cosmere is just silly, I would have DNF'd any other book. Still I like where all the characters end up so I guess we'll see if stormlight 6 can recover things.
I managed the book in 3 weeks. I do think Sanderson left himself with an uphill battle in this book. Adolins scenes were by far the stand out. Everything about his scenes, the deadeye shards etc were beautifully executed. Kaladin, with the therapy at times felt a struggle, but the outcome of his arc was kind of expected, but I liked the twist about them now having a chance to recover. Shallan, was ok, a little boring. Renarins stuff, was kinda meh. Nivani, I’ve never been the biggest fan of so I wasn’t overly bothered. Dalinars outcome was expected, but was done in a way where I didn’t really realise what had happened until I sat and thought about it. The battle on the shattered planes was cool and that outcome was interesting. The conflict of the gods, wind etc was good to see the whole unreliable narrator plus a good way to learn about the past. Overall, the book was ok, a bit too long, but Sanderson had a lot to wrap up. I’m still excited to see the next phase, and stuff like the time warping sets up some great potential crossover. The standout mini moment was Taln returning to what he is and seeing the true ferocity of the heralds. Having read Sunlit man, a book I struggled with, knowing what happened with sigzil, didn’t spoil things for me. I also appreciate that Sanderson isn’t afraid to not have the protagonists win every time
I strongly feel that if this were book 6 it would be recieved so much better. There is just too much that is set up, and too much that isn't resolved for us to have to wait a decade for
@@colamity_5000 this statement is contradictory. I'll agree the book has its flaws but everyone now flocks to the opinion of people online saying it was a bad book. Kind of crazy that so many people committed to reading a 1300 page book if it was that bad instead of dnfing and reading synopsis online. But I'll continue to cope ig
So I’ve tried to sum up my feelings about this book in one word, and that is bittersweet all the way through. This book has some of my favorite scenes in the first half of the series, whilst also having some of the worst scenes. All in all I’m satisfied by the end result, and I really think this book was bogged down by expectations for many.
Haven’t watched the video yet, but wanted to say I’ve been waiting for your review since I read the chapter that had the word “Undulating” in it like five times.
Thanks for the thoughts, like the format of this review! There were definitely some disappointments in this one for me as well-overall I just feel like it could have done with keeping 1 perspective per chapter until Day 10 and trimming down on perspectives in the same location dealing with the same things (for example, Shallan, Renarin and Rlain-all good characters but the same journey similar internal conflict… cut 2, or put a different one in each day so we get a varied perspective but not all 3 every day they’re in the Spiritual Realm.) I did enjoy it overall but felt that it did not hit the emotional depth of any of the first 4… or Dawnshard. Thanks for the review!
I feel the same sort of frustration that I can hear in your voice at the end. There's so much potential and promise and some of my favorite characters are in the first three books. But the landing just didn't stick. It's so frustrating. I wanted this to be the next great series - the next Malazan, or Wheel of Time, or Realm of the Elderings - but the last two books have been such letdowns. I think I'll have to add caveats when i describe it. It's a great series but...and I really wanted this series to not have the but.
Every time Sanderson writes comedy or Lyft in general I want to throw my phone (audiobook) against a wall. Also while this book is vastly more interesting than the previous, he really fumbles a lot of the mystical and mythical feeling of his world. There's an entire plotline that takes place in the Spiritual Realm, where actual gods reside, and it's just watching cutscenes! There's no feeling or emotion in his writing, he just says it happens and then an emotionspren pops up like an anime sweatdrop. He also sidesteps a lot of the horror of this book too. An entire city is destroyed and all he says is "and then they all died." Bravo dude
The Spiritual Realm chapters are really hurt by Sanderson's clear, "windowpane" writing style. You would think the prose would change to make it feel more dreamy or disconnected. Instead, it's the exact same writing style, like reading a text book on the history of Roshar.
yeah Spiritual Realm was hyped up SO much beforehand, but ended up feeling like a void with occasional cutscenes. He had such a great opportunity to get mega creative with abstract imagery and all sorts of terrifying mind bending threats, but it ended up feeling pretty lame
Ya, that was bad. But for a second there I thought you were going to have a real conflict of ideologies. Then later you find out Odium really saved them all. As full of dollar store philosophy as this book tried to be, NO ONE ever had to make hard decisions.
as someone who loved book 4 I was going into WaT with high hopes and although I had some of the same problems you had with it and is my least favourite in the series, I'm gonna trust that with the time that Brandon will take to focus on smaller scale stories he will be able to pull off the 2nd arc and make the series work beautifully by the end. I think the problems we all had with the book were more about the structure and writing than the actual story and those can be fixed in the later books. BTW I read that his old editor retired which explains some of the writing and structure problems so I hope he can either work with his current editor in a different way or get a new one. He really needs to comeback with an incredible 6th book if he wants to keep readers' faith in him and not cause a slog in the middle of the series
I agree that the Kaladin storyline didn't hit and the ending felt a bit too much like a setup. However, I still loved this booked and all the new reveals that we got and things to theorize over. Some of my favorite reveals and new questions to theorize over: The last shard is Reason What is up with Valor that Odium could not find it? Sigzil actually bonds with Szeth former spren 12124 Shallan is pregnant and locked in the cognitive realm?! What is up with the 4th moon?
You and I had very similar feelings, but I only read the Stormlight Archive for the first time in 2024, so I'm still wowed by the experience. I guess that makes me feel a little less negatively about book 5 than you did, even though I agreed with everything you said.
I was bored with 90-95% of this book & almost DNF. I love almost all of his other works, and have introduced many people to at least one of his books, and joined what started as a Sanderson only book club. I had no expectations for this book beyond it would be good (failed), and we would find out how our heroes would deal with the contest with Odium in the set up for arc 2 (partial fail). The prose was bad, even for Sanderson. The insertion of modernism that was not there to the same degree in previous books was tacky (“I’m a therapist!”, being just one of many) and did not fit. There’s Plot armor for certain characters because they have already been announced in future books. And the editing…My goodness, the editing is atrocious! The book is waaay too long for the story we got(400 pages). His editor(s) (who are not the same as the one who edited the first 3 books in the series) must not know how to tell him no. If you’re going to write a 1300 page book, you better make sure it’s more than worth taking the time to read it. There is more that I won’t say to avoid spoilers. This is not just the worst Stormlight,or even Cosmere, book, but the worst Sanderson work which I have read. I am so disappointed. 1.5/5 ⭐️
Agree with your final thoughts on the series. First three books are amongst my favorite. It used to be my favorite series, one I’d recommend every chance I got. But book 4 was meh and honestly I reallllly didn’t enjoy book 5. Felt there were SO many issues with it. I honestly don’t feel like recommending the series anymore bc of how much this book dropped off for me. I’m sad at how much I didn’t enjoy this book.
For this book has felt like the middle book of a trilogy. Can move too far forward, but can't stay in place. I stopped around 78 or 80, and I'm temporarily DNFing.
One aspect of the Jasnah/Odium/Fen argument is that now that Odium is willing to work with humans, there is absolutely no reason for Thaylenah to stay in the alliance. Sure Odium is evil, but the options are side with him or get annihilated. Fen chose the reprehensible option that keeps her country safest.
but that's not the only option. Just look at Asimir. They survived and are literally one of the only ray of sunshine left. she gave up too early. its always better to die fighting that to give up and side with evil. even if you look at it like a trolly situation, what's one nation when compared to the entire cosmere.
Spoilers. . . . . For Wind and Truth, I have the following complaints: - The plot was pretty predictable. It usually is not the case with Brandon Sanderson. There are some twists you have not seen coming. - The stakes didn't feel high at all with all the stupid jokes in between and you know certain characters had plot armor based on how the plot was setup. -- Kal must swear the 5th ideal. -- Szeth has to go through all the mini bosses -- Adolin has to fight against big bad fused with a name so we know nothing will happen to him until then. -- Shallan is pregnant, shower scene. Nothing will happen to her. - It felt like reading YA. It was pretty boring. - The prose. What happened? How is it possible that he could make it even worse than usual? - The modern terms were like a punch in the stomac. - The length of the book? Cut it down. Stop repeating the same stuff. If he decided that the book was ok the way it was and doesn't see the issues, I am guessing that the next books will have the same problems and I'm not sure I am interested anymore. It felt like watching a Marvel movie or playing a videogame. See Szeth/Kal and Adolin's arcs. If we are to expect the same level for the next 5 books and for Ghostbloods, oh god, please make it stop. Brandon, write fewer books, take more time to edit them and make them solid. What's the hurry?
This book suffers so much from the 10 days structure. I can understand the desire to follow it but as Merphy pointed out he repeats himself a lot and it emphasizes makes the similarity in a lot of the character stories in ways that detract from the fun of the book. As other stated he really needed stronger editing on this one. I over all liked it but as opposed to most of his books I had to stop and think after finishing if i did or not. It probably would have been better if it was only 5 days instead of 10. You wouldn't have expected as much to happen as 10 days made you expect. I loved Adolin's story but the general direction of his part of the story is obvious. They will fight hard most will die and they will either just succeed or just fail... I heard him speak about how he rights each characters arc/story seperately and then interweaves them together and I the day structure really hurt here as it forced him to but what would have been part of a longer/more impactful sequence for a character into a nominally realistic day's worth of action/story. So some logical sections of a character's story was too long for one day or the progress was hardly worth including them in a day but he just put them in any how...
It's weird because I have gripes with this book but I only really realised them after the fact. While I was reading it, I thorougly enjoyed it and it really hit me emotionally (which honestly is what matters most to me even if I feel slightly differently about it now). I think having just done a re-read really helped with that, because going directly into it after Rhythm of War it almost didn't feel like a "standalone" book to me. It kind of just felt like an extention of it or a new (very long) chapter so I guess in a way that put less pressure on this book because it could work off of the emotional foundation that the previous 4 had just given me, if that makes sense. That said, while I don't necessarily agree with every point you made throughout the vlog, in hindsight, I feel exactly the same way with respect to your concluding thoughts. So yeah, it's really strange, I loved the book but I also feel it could've been a lot better. Still consider this my favourite series though.
I really disliked the order of Szeth's flashbacks with the order of visiting the honor bearers and if they would have lined them up I think it would have given more meaning to each boss fight. I personally couldn't keep track of the honor bearers names and what orders they belonged to.
God I just need to avoid the internet. I consumed the book in 10 days ironically, as a father who works full time, not a booktuber, and I thought it was a great fun time. It isn't my literal favorite Stormlight book, but it also beats out other books because of their own shortcomings. Like in WoR, Shallan has that horrible boot thief chapter where she pretends to be a Horneater Princess. Gag. Or later in the book when Kaladin does his "For my boon!" cringeworthy scene. Nobody cared about the touchy-feely stuff when Kaladin defeated Amaram by asking him "Why do you still hurt?" Why was no one crying about that? I feel like Brandon really tried to please everyone and he ended up pleasing much less people than he wanted. I see people complaining about Renarin and Rlain, but people had been guessing at Renarin x Rlain for EIGHT YEARS, so Brandon probably decided to just give it to those people. You can go watch Shardcast videos from when Oathbringer was released and the 17th shard staffers were theorizing and guessing that Renarin was gay and into Rlain that far back. But by doing that Brandon upset his extremely devout fanbase. Go on goodreads and you will see review after review claiming that they will not supporting a sinful and political message. (as if existing in a fantasy universe is political, jesus). Somewhat related to that I see people acting like Brandon has fallen to pure hedonism, and that his whole message is "Do what makes you feel good." or that he spent all this time talking about Oaths and building up Oaths, only to say "Nah Oaths are bad." but I don't think that's what happened. I think Brandon intentionally did that, considering that this is the midpoint of the story, Empire Strikes Back if you will. The previous KR fell. This KR is in jeopardy. Knowing that W&T is the midpoint, I think Brandon purposefully put Taravangian in a position to make everyone doubt themselves. But if you pay attention, you will see that Taravangian had to make the coalition WRONG. That's why he went in person to show up Jasnah. But Dalinar didn't let him do that. That's why at the end Taravangian is WEEPING and thinking "Dalinar was right." because Taravagian is a fraud, and he was wrong. I think in the back 5 we will come to see how much of a fraud Taravangian is, and how IDEALS (not Oaths) are good. It's not a matter of "Do what makes you feel good." when Dalinar is saying "Keeping an Oath is not an ultimate good. It is only as good as the ideals it is sworn to. Uniting is not an ultimate good. It is only as good as the purposes for the unification." Now remember the Ideals of the Knights Radiant are "Life Before Death, Strength Before Weakness, Journey Before Destination. The First Ideal of the Knight's Radiant." Oath != Ideal clearly in Brandons mind, and "Life Before Death, Strength Before Weakness, Journey Before Destination." != "Do what makes you feel good." I am so stoked for the future of the cosmere. I know it doesn't matter if other people don't like something I like, but it's such a bummer that everyone seems to dislike the book. I can't talk to anyone without them wanting to talk shit.
I think that we are of similar tastes because I also take this book as it is, the fifth book of a ten book series. And I just sort of enjoy spending the time with these characters. The Internet is not a place for "yeah I enjoyed this, and I'm excited for the next few books" because that isn't an extreme enough reaction. Also these youtubers are reading these books on a time crunch to get their videos out so they are forcing themselves to read it. I read it over 7 days but I was hooked, there is something to be said about reading a 1300 pages book at your own pace.
If this wasn't Stormlight it would have been the first book I DNF. If I had it to do over again I would read Adolin and Sigzil parts and the last 100 pages. It was sooooooooooooooooooooooo painful.
I wish Sanderson said this is just Wind and Truth PRIME and made a re-release in a year with an actual good story. It won't happen but ok, just saying.
I have the same wish. Instead of healing szeth about talking about feelings kaladin instead heals szeth through the lessons he learned through bridge 4. It could have been away to get more bridge 4 without any additional povs.
I think the biggest downfall of this book were the expectations preceding it tbh. Is it the strongest in the series? Absolutely not. But I also don't think it's the weakest. I've watched a few reviews and spoken to countless friends (and randoms) and I've kind of found the biggest detractors were the ones that went in with the highest expectations and its biggest advocates were the ones that went in with no expectations. I think the expectations set by the Mistborn era's hurt this ending. A lot of people were expecting a Hero of Ages type conclusion. I think the quality of the first 3 books hurt this ending. I got the feeling that this book was simultaneously over and under edited. The release of TSM before W&T hurt the book. There were a lot of things that hurt the reception of this book, that really weren't any fault of the book itself. If I had to rank the series, after sitting on W&T for a number of weeks now, it'd have to be 1 > 2 > 5 > 3 > 4.
It's definitely not my favorite stormlight book but not the worst either, had a TON of good moments and wrap ups that I liked. But there was just too much...too many plot lines that should just have been unaddressed to allow for bigger focus on the more important stuff. Normally I don't mind Sanderson's cheesyness but it felt like it was kind of out of hand, took me out of the story on more than one occasion. Overall 7/10, really wish it wrapped up better but im not too unhappy about it.
Great video, feels like im taking crazy pills looking at the 4.5 on goodreads. This book was so much worse than I expected. I suspect the crux of it was that it was sold to me as a conclusion to the 1st arc, which will be a distinct story. Sure didn't feel like it.
I have always seen Stormlight as a 10 book series. So to me we got more of an ending than i was expecting. I really thought this was gonna end on a cluffhanger for everyone since we still have five 1,200 page books left.
I think I'm a pretty cheap date when it comes to books - in other words, my standards are pretty low! Overall, I enjoyed this book! However, a few lines and themes throughout the book just didn't jive with me. Then, I watched your review and you gave me all the words I needed! 2 points you made were super helpful. #1 That a lot of the characters were experiencing and learning and growing in the same themes! I have read 4k+ pages with all these characters around each other in some way or another that I just assumed while reading, "yeah it makes sense that they're all maturing together!" But...but they're miles/dimensions a part from one another! Such helpful words. And #2 the language used by many of the characters (including my favorite dark and depressed boi Kal) felt like a copy and paste out of a Psychology Today blog. I work in mental health as a profession and, wow, did it break the 4th wall to read some of his lines. I'll live and breathe and die a Stormblessed lover...but this book made me feel, for the first time, that, Kaladin's just a fictional character from the pen/keyboard of a man named Brandon - not this mythic hero who overcame depression and crushing betrayal to serve and care for others in need. Lastly, while you may feel like you ended this vlog on a bummer, the VAST majority of the in-depth reviews have been worlds harsher than yours! Thanks for filming so much! One of your "My Favorite Series" videos from years ago is still the reason why I read as an adult now. You've totally reignited my passion for reading where middle school burned it out of me with required summer reading!
1:14:35 - indeed, that's exactly what i am doing right now. I am rereading the first three to feel the awesomeness of Stormlight again after the huge disappointment of WaT...
imma be real, we should have known how this would go when brando changed the name from "knights of wind and truth" (rizz, goat, flames) to "wind and truth" (L, cringe, down bad). this comment is obviously a joke but i also think there's some truth to it.
Maybe I just went in with different expectations but I was more or less satisfied by the ending. I knew it was going to be the end of the first arc, and felt like the contest between Dalinar and Odium was the focal point of that ending. I'm hoping that when we have all 10 books we will look back at the ending and just see how it set up book six. It just feels worse because we know it'll be 8ish years until it continues.
This was a great watch, I shared a lot of your feelings as well (seems a lot of the comments agree). I'm conflicted on the Fen resolution-- on the one hand I understand the argument that "I have to do what's best for my people, and your lofty ideal just means we will all die" for her. The reality that the entire world is against them, and they rely on trade to survive and thrive, so they really are doomed as a people. I also actually enjoy that Jasnah lost because of the conflict within her own ideals finally coming to a head. On the OTHER hand, there was a lot of talk about how Fen basically was like "Sure, some people are cold and calculating, but screw them I'm my own woman" only for her resolution to be... throwing away her own honor. So while her logic was pretty reasonable, it actually felt like a total conflict with her own character arc. I was not a fan of 95% of the things dealing with the Spiritual Realm. I would have so much preferred if it had stayed a place beyond mortal reach and comprehension. What we got was a series of cutscenes that were the literal embodiment of Telling and not Showing which is super disappointing as a Sanderson fan. What we got was a lot of characters having to go in circles twiddling their thumbs because they had to be in the book, but we had to wait for all the cutscenes finish first. And then the 1-2 punch of plot BS of "Well I made a fake Gav so that Gav could spend 15 years here in an eyeblink" combined with "Also we'll use it to bring back Dark Dalinar (who will probably be redeemed in the future so that Nobody Important Dies). I did like that Dalinar went out with the Sunmaker Gambit, and that this was somewhat foreshadowed by Adolin several days earlier while he was teaching the game to Yawnagan. Which BTW, Adolin's arc was by far my favorite, which is a delight. I also find it funny that, as you pointed out, the conflict between Dalinar and Taravangian was more philosophical. So much so in fact that it was MORE philosophical than the entire series of chapters we got that were *supposed to be* the philosophical conflict between Jasnah and Taravangian. I also echo your thoughts and how fast Kal became a therapist. This is probably more to do with the fact that the book HAD to take place over 10 days; if there had been implied time jumps between POVs then it could have worked better. I'm also not a fan of The Wind being a separate deity from the Adonalsium shards. It feels very late in the game to be revealing new deities, and it just makes me feel like we're going to learn that in fact Roshar was the Most Special TM world created by Adonalsium all along. So yeah, pretty much in alignment with your experience with this book. There were some good moments, some great moments even, but some of the pacing, changes in tone, and things we're just forced to accept with the timelines really kinda dragged it down. This book did NOT need to be this long, you could easily have cut 200-300 pages out of it and lost nothing of value.
For the writing alone, W&T feels it's 1-2 drafts of editing and revision away from being polished to the quality it should be. Me and it turns out several other readers made lists of when the word choice and writing kicked us out of the narrative and it's quite long. Narratively, I'm disappointed by the Spiritual Realm which wraps 3 POV's (Dalinar/Shallan/Renarin). It's a way to cheat the 10-day structure, makes our characters simply watch cutscenes while for some reason playing Among Us, and it ultimately contributed nothing to the end. The flashback sequences should've been given to Taln and Ash's flashback sequences in future books. The sentence that upset me the most was in Chapter 129. "Soon the terrible visions began to fade again, becoming just the ordinary Spiritual Realm again." The Spiritual Realm was supposed to be the most mysterious and arcane of the three realms, yet to have it reduced to a device to play flashbacks and be referred to as "ordinary" is egregious. Szeth's flashbacks were the strongest narrative of the novel, but the way the Honorbearers were introduced seemed out of order and misaligned. For example, Szeth fights Moss way before we know who he is and so we meet characters in the present day and it takes way too long to learn who they are and care about Szeth's reunion with them. Kaladin was not the character from the previous four books. Even if he wanted to take the therapist route, it's just mind-boggling how he's a totally different person and became this meek, timid man walking around eggshells for Szeth. Kaladin is a soldier with so much of his own trauma and SI tendencies, he's direct and brash. He should have enough experience to find common ground with Szeth and speak to him confidently. If you read his dialogue and removed his name, he is unrecognizable and you'd think it was Renarin speaking. Szeth is also the most dangerous and unpredictable man in the world who's killed the king and maimed several of Kaladin's friends. the way Kaladin speaks to him just doesn't feel right. Now that I reflect more, I also think the Sanderlanche was underwhelming. It's satisfying when all the plot threads throughout a novel are woven neatly by the climax but for W&T all of them resolve individually and don't really affect each other and neither were they particularly explosive, it kind of hit like a wet blanket. I do like Dalinar's decision in the end, but the plotting to get there just was not enjoyable.
As bad as that was, it was far from the worst line in the book. There are Marvel-level quotes in the middle of climactic moments that made me want to throw my book out the window. I cannot comprehend how anyone (even Sanderson himself) read those lines and thought they're ok to print.
@@ΧρήστοςΠαπαδημοπουλος-δ6οikr, I also hated that almost every charater was so self aware of their problems or internal struggle. And we were reminded of that like every third page.
@@ayushkatarpawar6429really? One immature joke, the likes of which have been sprinkled throughout earlier Stormlight books, was all it took to upset you that much? That’s kinda sad
Agree with most of the points here. The Jasnah debate in particular was a turning point where I went from optimistic to pessimistic about the ending. It's a Sanderson book without the Sanderlanche, which turns out is just an ok if uninspiring book.
58:07 I actually hated the way Yasnah was written in this scene. She’s meant to be an accomplished scholar and completely folded to the most blatant ad hominem attacks you’ll see. Completely broke her character for me.
I think I had a pretty similar experience reading this book as you, where I wasn’t reallly enjoying the book throughout, but there were enough solid moments (basically all from adolin and first half of the szeth flashbacks) to keep me going. Plus I was banking on the ending. After finally reaching the conclusion I was mostly just left with overwhelming disappointment. Plot wise the ending is interesting and a solid set up for the back half, but the entire book felt like destination before journey. There was no subtext, basically everything was over explained as if Sanderson believed the reader was incapable of reading between the lines. The debate with Jasnah was insanely dissatisfying because it just felt unrealistic that Jasnah had never thought about her own hypocrisies, that’s basically her entire philosophy! It felt like Sanderson wanted to show utilitarianism is bad and chose to do it by knocking Jasnah down. And the Kaladin’s ‘therapy’ was just hard to read the entire time. He’s simply too good at it for having invented it a week ago and he’s making progress with his ‘patients’ way too fast. The prose, especially medical language, was also just distractingly modern. All the dialogue felt super MCUey and quippy. Like all the characters were flattened and lost their voice to make space for bad out-of-place jokes. I have so many more problems, but I’ve probably already ranted too long..
I don't personally care if the therapy worked too fast or not; I care that it's insanely boring and uninteresting. The story came to a grinding halt every time it was the focus. This was my major issue with the book, and I am beginning to think that it's at the root of many other people's dissatisfaction as well. People WANT to embrace good healing and trauma recovery, but the simple fact is that it's not exciting as part of a climax or as a replacement for more traditionally heroic scenes. Kaladin was an absolute bore. He used to be fun to read. His scenes were a slog here. Therapy sessions should remain private.
I am one of very few people who loved book 4 but book 5 was definitely disappointing. Love your review Merph! I really hope he gets a new editor before the next book or I’ll be hopping off the Sanderson train 😢
Shallan has always been my fave character, I just relate to her a lot. and my fave character in malazan is Felisin so I think I have a type of woman I relate to LOL.
Shallan is a good character in theory, but Sanderson botches her execution a lot. I find her cringey a lot of times, but I think it's mainly more a symptom of her being in Sanderson's Circus of Mental Diagnoses.
I had a lot of the same feelings you had. This is the first SA book that I had no desire to read a second time right after I finished. I liked WaT slightly better than RoW. Yet I still read RoW a second time. I think it is because I did not care overall for the end of this series and how it got there. For me, it would have felt different if Shallan had made it to the Physical Realm rather than being stuck in Shadesmar. This probably has to do with her being my favorite character. So I could be biased. I think if she Sja had been able to somehow get to Azir to be with Adolin. Let them end up together rather than being apart. We could have had the end of both of their arcs. And likewise, had the Blackthorn splinter of Dalinar not been created, it would have given more closure to Dalinar. While Retribution won by default, without retaining the Blackthorn, it would have felt more less like a true victory. Brandon has set up the shard Honor to have the capability to evolve itself. We did not need the Blackthorn having the capacity to evolve the same way Dalinar did during his lifetime. The new Moash or El could have been Retribution's Cosmere general. Thus, we would have had more of a closure of the key primary characters from the first arc (Dalinar, Szeth, Shallan, Kaladin, as well as Adolin and Venli) have arcs resolved and be less of a focus in the next arc. I believe Kaladin will only be a point of view character in a few interludes during Books 6 and 7. A key event in Book 9 or 10 will be the Heralds returning one last time for a final battle where they will no longer need the Oathpact and will be able to achieve a final death. They will all come back mostly mentally healed. Although the Herald who was to work for Odium may still turn out to be a traitor. Perhaps Kaladin will mentally help her as well.
I liked the book, I noticed things that were weird like the editing and the pacing and did think kaladins stuff was a bit on the nose for me, but i still liked the book. it was his worst written book since elantris but i thought it had an excellent story to tell which balanced it out for me
I enjoyed the book, but it should have been marketed as book 6 of 10 rather than the end of a part. I felt like there was an expectation it would be more conclusive like the 1st Mistborn saga
That's actually very true, I feel like people are more harsh on it because it was marketed at "end of part 1" (though some people have criticized it so strongly that they definitely wouldn't like it either way)
@sawtoothhorse it actually reminds me a bit of "the slog" books in Wheel of Time, where you have so many characters and need to address their stories before moving on to the next "part" of the story
At least as a fan keeping up with WaT news, it always felt like it was going to end this way, with a Sanderlanche cliffhanger. The in-world gap between arcs was always said to be 10-20 years in interviews/q&a, so I went in with the expectation that at least a decent portion of the characters will carry over, and as such would require some hook to keep them interesting - unless Sanderson was going to spend another 5 books doing flashbacks from the same perspectives about the time gap. Mistborn E1-E2 has almost no characters carry-over and a much larger gap, so I had different expectations.
Oh My GOD!! your experience was almost exact to what I felt, thanks for sharing. And yes the point of being disappointed that it the end was disappointing hit home hard!!
I enjoyed the book, but it isn’t my fave stormlight book. It has incredible highs, but definitely the lowest lows. To me this book was held back by the ten day construct that is used for the book. Certain things just felt rushed.
Good vlog, I have to agree with so much of what you said. The book was so boring for so much, and that didn't change by the end of it. The ending was unsatisfying and not at all what we've come to expect from a Sanderson book. Easily the weakest of the books so far, barely a 3-star book, approaching 2.5.
I really appreciated your commentary on the book. I felt the same way about the book in most parts. Sanderson should watch this video, imo. I know he can do better. It's sad that peak Sanderson was with Words of Radiance, and sadly I believe he wont ever return to that high point. I sure as heck want him to, but I dont think he will. This book felt like a huge flat line just above 60 points (in a scale of 1 - 100). Even RoW had higher highs, and lower lows. He definitely needs better editors, but more important: better FRIENDS that actually tell him "hey, this isnt working, this is boring, not everyone loves ALL your characters as you do, the mental illness theme has become extremely invasive and it throws off the readers", that kind of stuff.
Very good comments all the way around. I liked the way you provided a balanced view. I loved the book, but I do understand the criticism, although I think some (not yours) has been a bit overwrought.
I agree that I expected more out of the ending, didn’t expect every storyline to have a conclusion, but wanted more than what we got
The book has a lot of problems, but that Adolin plot line was incredible.
Completely agree. I generally really like the book despite its many flaws because I just enjoy spending time wity these characters. But Adolin, Sigzil and Szeth genuinely had me invested and hooked.
Real
Adolin and Szeth I liked. Everyone else? Not so much
I disagree. It was good but he had that plot armor that makes the stakes go so low. As soon as we were told the name of the bad bad fuse, we knew that the final boss fight would be with him. So Adolin had the plot armor until the very end. It was a good arc but it never felt like the scene "Honor is dead but I'll see what I can do." Back then, you could still assume something bad could happen but not in Wind and Truth.
@@nicodemogawronski2052
I felt that Adolin dying to free Azir was a realistic possibility, this is the end of the arc after all, plenty more named characters could have died.
Adolin had 3 of my top 5 scenes in the book. I loved his sections so much.
Merphy: “if this doesn’t pick up I might temp DNF”
Me looking at the length of the video: “well I know which way that goes” 😂
I also struggled with this book and almost put it down multiple times.
59:11 "I'm disappointed in you, my friend, for you exhibit cold and detached tendencies I'm not fond of."
> Walks over and holds arms with Satan
This completely missed the point. The point is not that Fen is disappointed in Jasna, but that she thinks Jasna is right to worry for her own people, and as a queen Fen should strive to do the same. The deal Fen got for Thaylen was the best thing for her people. Why care about what feels right, why care about the greater good when Odium has proven that even the smartest, most logical person, cares for themselves and their people first and foremost
@@DuelingMarubecause Jasnah and Fen had a good relationship? Fen saw only evil from Odium, yet she sides with him betraying her friend... Horrible.
Literally deletes the entire point of book 3...
@@AleksandarIvanov69 Fen is a queen. She knows that she need to put the need of her people first. She knows that while Odium is evil, he cannot break promises, but Jasna can and will break promises for her selfish "greater good". The line of thinking "I'm close to you and he's evil so I won't join him" is so so childish.
The part that's not good is it doesn't really matter, as Odium has plan to take Thaylen regardless. This whole debate with Jasna is pretty pointless, it's just Odium working Jasna up to serve him
I like how everyone is in their heads the whole time, ultimately concluding that they should do whats best for their mental health, meanwhile the world is ending. Like, really guys... you couldn't wait 10 days?
That part killed me. They know the end of the world is happening and all they do is talk about their feelings and who they want to bang.
Correct as a premise, completely nonsense as execution
I think where Navani ends up will be a major part of her relationship with the sibling because a major point of conflict between them is using spren in fabrials and now she is the one being trapped
I had never even thought of that. That's a great insight
So many people have said they were somewhat disappointed by Sigzil's story because they had already read the Sunlit man. As someone who hasn't read The Sunlit Man yet, I thought his POV parts were awesome! I think Sanderson should have waited to release TSM until after this book.
It worked for me and I read and enjoyed Sunlit Man. Sadly I enjoyed it much more that this book, but hey that happens sometimes!
Basically TSM and WaT kinda spoil each other in different ways. I think you are best off not reading TSM before WaT so you are lucky.
I really wished TSM came after WaT
Sunlit Man spoils the story of 3 characters. Sig, Kal and Wit.
Tbh I really enjoyed Sig's plotline because I had already read TSM and was keeping my eyes out for everything in his POV that could be buildup for TSM. Then, the book threw me for a loop when I realized the entire setup for Sunlit happens entirely within WaT, not over the next few books like I thought.
You really articulated my biggest issue with this one, which was the heavy-handedness of the internal processing going on across so many of the POV characters. It often felt repetitive and just not organic to these characters or what they’d truly be thinking in some of these moments.
I’m right with you on what you said at the end about how most of these characters actually had full cathartic arcs already by the time this book started, so there just wasn’t somewhere satisfying for them to go besides just spinning wheels.
I just hate how on the nose everyone's mental health issues are expressed and dealt with in this book. You don't need to hang a lampshade (more like a cover to a neon sign) that X character has this issue. We understand that through the conflict of the story and how they respond to that conflict. It's like the characters are facing a proverbial camera going "hi, I have PTSD" a lot of the time. I sincerely hope Sanderson takes this as a learning opportunity to bring some more subtly and care into this sort of thing. It's not enough to just acknowledge it through patronizing dialogue and inner monologues.
First of all, great vlog overall - it was very fun to listen to your predictions and opinions knowing what happens in the end and it served as a great recap.
Now, I loved the book, with all its flaws. I agree that having everyone being so on point in their reasoning and self perseption was at times too much. Everyone was a biiiit to good and understanding to one another and selves.
BUUUUT I can forgive this on the main cast because almost everyone had whole books and jurneys about discovering and fighing their issues and now, on book 5 they are.. ready. Kal is happy, Shallan is more aware of her personas and limits, Navani and Dalinar are stronger, they are ready to listen and learn. It makes sense for them to be at the end of the journey.
Now, Szeth and Nale... they way they were helped it was ok, even great but it was too fast. Most of the weakness came from the ten-days structure. Kal and Szeth quest could be done in a couple of weeks and everyone would agree with the therapist arc but here is was only a week.
Now I am split because it loved the structure in terms of suspense and how well worked for Adolin ( best character arc in the book).
I also consider the Cosmere being the biggest thing happening in fantasy during our time and Stormlight 5 is a great step forward but more of a setup then a conclusion to an arc. I consider that many loose strings will have payoffs in the later books but it's a lot of time until then and I get why some people are upset.
Some wild predictions:
Adolin will duel the Blackthorn version of Dalinar
Kal will fight again and will have an Avengers moment with the Heralds.
Shallan will be a great, but scared parent - Pattern will love to entertain and study the child.
Navani is keeping the Tower alive, somehow.
Lyft and Zahel? - best duo of the next books
Venli will do something really important with the Well. The Well is a huge deal.
Retribution will be more careful and also more prepared next time someone challanges it..him.
Rlain and Renarin - couple goals for next book - also people will hate them for their relationship.
Jasnah - will have a badass arc but will suffer a lot too. She will face the past and the fact that she cannot do as much as she thought.
Hoid will be Hoid.
God, I have so many thoughts about this book. If someone read all that, hope you have a great week and there will be more on the review.
Merphy just know that I am so excited for this vlog to come out. And had a blast watching it. Especially while there was some things you liked and disliked about the book. So thank you! Also I love when after you say your complaints about a particular area you pause and say “Ok now let me say something nice” 😂I love it how hilarious.
I absolutely loved that Abidi just didn't believe that Adolin wasn't a Radiant.
"I'm also sorry it was so long", I know you were talking about the video, but this could be about the book itself. haha
I found you years ago because of Wheel of Time and forgot because One Piece swept you away. But after I read wind and truth, I wanted the thoughts of a TH-camr I trusted and was very pleased and excited to find this.
Edit: I love one piece. I was swept away with you
FINALLY! I’ve waited a whole month for this video! I’ll be looking forward to watching this entire video today!
I'm still only 60% through this after 2 months lmao. The book is just a chore to read. I think I was burnt out before I started though. I'll watch this when I'm done.
As someone whose favorite storyline was Kaladin's, this is definitely an interesting perspective.
Also, Hoid didn't have two dawnshards. He only has one. He used his powers to keep his from trying to combine with Rysn's
Wit going from “THAT STORMING IDIOT!” to “THAT STORMING GENIUS!” was absolutely hilarious to me 😂
FINALY A WIND AND TRUTH VIDEO FINALLYYYYYYYYY
I always thought Szeth was forced by his father to not use his name because Szeth shamed the family. His flashbacks flipped that on its head with all the sacrifices his father made and Szeth choosing to distance himself from his father.
I'm so glad you didn't like the Yasna Odium debate. I was disappointed in all 3 of them. Yasna for not adapting to the personal angle, Odium just didn't have great arguments and Fen for ultimately choosing The Big Bad because she didn't agree with Yasna on her past actions, actions Yasna set up before ever knowing Fen.
Also, it was literally raised and dismissed that Dalinar was no longer untrustworthy because of the growth, yet Yasna wasn't given that same grace??!! Ugh.
I absolutely agree on the whole "Everyone is doing the same things in slightly different flavors"! When I went through the secret projects, my thoughts were "Oh, this just the same book over and over with different characters in different settings - some better, some worse, but it's all just exploring how Connection works, so that's probably going to be the big thing in Wind and Truth and he's trying to hammer out his thoughts on how this works mechanically" and then we got Wind and Truth as the exact same format of the same beats in different flavors but Connection still didn't get used much despite being the driving force behind how literally everything worked in the book. Part of the issue, I think, is that there was clearly a push for this being a specific thing plot-wise, but also was supposed to be the Skybreaker book, so the lack of a clear line made it suffer overall
I'm glad you didn't DNF it, even if you didn't ultimately love it. I liked hearing your thoughts. I have been really surprised by the (much) less than stellar reactions to this book. I loved it! The sheer amount of time spent in the past might have rendered me incapable of critical thinking. Lol. I just love history, even made up fantasy history.
finally someone else that loved the spiritual realm 😅 it was my favourite part of the book and what kept me going when I would hit a less interesting chapter
Oh boy, time to make a cup of tea and settle in. Been waiting for this.
Yeah i think we are on the same page with this one. The only storyline here that didn't leave me with a bad taste in my mouth is Adolin. Really appreciate that young man. The rest for ever excellent beat, for every scene or set up that got me excited there would be some peice of cheese or poorly communicated concept that feel like hitting a pot hole at speed with my mouth open. I enjoy the state the book left us in, i think it's really interesting and i'm keen for book 6. But ho darn, not the best of rides.
agreed. it just seems like Brandon was really low on inspiration for this book. it really lacked his typical level of emotion. this is the only stomrlight book that didn't make me shed a single tear. Dalinars death should have made me ball but its was so quick and emotionless
@@deadcaptainjames6045 and completely undercut by the Blackthrone nonsense tbh
@@deadcaptainjames6045 > typical level of emotion.
hasn't he always been lacklustre at conveying emotions though? His strength was worldbuilding and I don't think he can stand on the same ground as tolkien or GRRM (or even Rothfuss if I'm being honest) when considering basically everything else lol
@@jcon2060 It depends on what kinds of emotions you mean. He's fantastic with how his characters portray doubts, exasperation, hope as well as hopelessness, contentment and longing. His style may be simple, but really the emotional writing is one of the cornerstones of Sanderson's writing, in a way that I personally find far more moving than literally anything Rothfuss ever wrote, even if it was nicer to read while doing it.
I'm not saying that you have to agree with me or anything, just that I agree with the Dead Captain that when I was going through this book it felt 70-80% devoid of what we typically got from Brandon in what I've come to regard as central to his craft, and that's really weird.
@jcon2060 to me this book was exactly what I was expecting. People complain about his prose, it always been boring. People complain about his juvenile humor, it's always been juvenile. To me Wind and Truth was on the same level of everything he's written. On the 5th book of a series you would think people would know what to expect. On the 17th book in the cosmere, come on People we know what we're getting.
The first time someone (Sigzil) renounced their oaths I thought it was awesome. The 2nd time someone (Szeth) renounced their oaths I was like "Again? Well ok sure". The 3rd time someone (Dalinar) renounced their oaths to resolve the big plot that the book revolved around, I felt empty... Unfortunately the death of Dalinar, who was my favorite character, fell flat for me. Never would've thought that was possible going in.
Adolin and Sigzil were really the only arc's that met or exceeded my hopes. The rest not so much.
At risk of sounding condescending, I believe you are missing the point a bit. Sure 3 characters did the same thing but they each did for a different reason. Sigzil to save a life, Szeth because it was the right thing for him and Dalinar because he knows its what is best for the power of Honour. It cycles back the idea that maintaining an oath is wrong if the ideal behind holds no value.
What DID annoy me is the fact that Sigzil's spren was upset with him for what he did. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? HE SAVED YOUR LIFE. She was a very supportive and understanding Spren the whole book but Sigzil breaks their bond and suddenly she doesnt wanna see him? Stupid.
@adoniscreed403 I get your point regarding the reasons for it being different, but that doesn't change how it felt like an overused plot device. If Dalinar was the only person to do it I think his scene would've had more impact on me. This is all subjective.
@@obijuan-kenobi5117if the first 2 occurrences hadn’t happened, you (or other people) would have been like “what the heck that came out of nowhere”.
It’s called foreshadowing and a consistent theme
@@slidenaway I think I have a better grasp on what my personal opinion would've been than you do, and you're wrong. I loved the first instance of it with Sigzil. It was probably the biggest emotional moment of the book for me. The following times it happened didn't work as well for me. It might've worked for you and others, and that's great!
You can't project your subjective opinions of art onto other people. It worked for you, it didn't for me. It is what it is.
@ I did say “or other people” but you still managed it take it as a personal attack. Good job lmao
Moving on
I legitimately can't believe that the series that started with Way of Kings turned into...whatever Wind and Truth is supposed to be.
I can’t believe it either. It feels wrong putting it on my bookshelf right next to those masterpieces
I'm sad that Stormlight turned into this direction but elated that through this disappointment i discovered Sun Eater which has became my new obsession
Yeah I think Sanderson needs to scale back his grand designs. Like I'm into the cosmere only as long as the individual books remain good, this book felt like it needed another year in the oven and now it's the last stormlight we are getting for 8 years... I'd read stormlight 6 now, but I don't think I'll want to with 8 years to sit on the absolute mediocrity of WaT.
It’s been interesting to read Sanderson’s response to some of this criticism (your criticisms are very similar to the overall fandom’s).
Sanderson talked about how he thinks broadening the scope of the story has led to a lot of the issues people are having with later books.
I think his output of content has actually hurt him in some ways (the seventeenth shard has even said that the four secret projects in 2023 left stormlight five with less time than it probably needed) and that’s led to less thought provoking stories. He’s also on a time crunch with his life expectancy and so I wonder if he hasn’t been able to really pause and reflect on deeper and more complex themes for his stories.
I felt the same finishing the book. I was really sad that I was disappointed. This book felt very YA for an adult fantasy series. Not that that genre is bad but he set a different genre expectation with stormlight that I don’t think he delivered on fully.
If the cosmere has to scale down a bit to make the actual books not suck then scale it down. Undercooking the series at the heart of the cosmere is just silly, I would have DNF'd any other book.
Still I like where all the characters end up so I guess we'll see if stormlight 6 can recover things.
I managed the book in 3 weeks. I do think Sanderson left himself with an uphill battle in this book.
Adolins scenes were by far the stand out. Everything about his scenes, the deadeye shards etc were beautifully executed.
Kaladin, with the therapy at times felt a struggle, but the outcome of his arc was kind of expected, but I liked the twist about them now having a chance to recover.
Shallan, was ok, a little boring.
Renarins stuff, was kinda meh.
Nivani, I’ve never been the biggest fan of so I wasn’t overly bothered.
Dalinars outcome was expected, but was done in a way where I didn’t really realise what had happened until I sat and thought about it.
The battle on the shattered planes was cool and that outcome was interesting.
The conflict of the gods, wind etc was good to see the whole unreliable narrator plus a good way to learn about the past.
Overall, the book was ok, a bit too long, but Sanderson had a lot to wrap up.
I’m still excited to see the next phase, and stuff like the time warping sets up some great potential crossover.
The standout mini moment was Taln returning to what he is and seeing the true ferocity of the heralds.
Having read Sunlit man, a book I struggled with, knowing what happened with sigzil, didn’t spoil things for me.
I also appreciate that Sanderson isn’t afraid to not have the protagonists win every time
I strongly feel that if this were book 6 it would be recieved so much better. There is just too much that is set up, and too much that isn't resolved for us to have to wait a decade for
Nah this is cope
sounds like cope. It's not a good book no matter where its placed
Yeah cope like people are saying. I'm satisfied with where things end up, I don't like that I had to read a crappy book to find it out.
@@colamity_5000 this statement is contradictory. I'll agree the book has its flaws but everyone now flocks to the opinion of people online saying it was a bad book. Kind of crazy that so many people committed to reading a 1300 page book if it was that bad instead of dnfing and reading synopsis online. But I'll continue to cope ig
Yay, I've been waiting for this!
I am many thousands of pages behind to be able to watch this vlog. Cannot wait to return to this video in the future.
So I’ve tried to sum up my feelings about this book in one word, and that is bittersweet all the way through. This book has some of my favorite scenes in the first half of the series, whilst also having some of the worst scenes. All in all I’m satisfied by the end result, and I really think this book was bogged down by expectations for many.
Haven’t watched the video yet, but wanted to say I’ve been waiting for your review since I read the chapter that had the word “Undulating” in it like five times.
agree that the Kaladin sections were a bit cheesy. But i think the Seth sections are really good! I don't mind how it lead to the next series as well!
Found merphy through one piece when she first started it, stayed for the book reviews and I've been waiting for this vlog
My favorite book/series I found because of your videos was the lies of Locke lamora
Thanks for the thoughts, like the format of this review! There were definitely some disappointments in this one for me as well-overall I just feel like it could have done with keeping 1 perspective per chapter until Day 10 and trimming down on perspectives in the same location dealing with the same things (for example, Shallan, Renarin and Rlain-all good characters but the same journey similar internal conflict… cut 2, or put a different one in each day so we get a varied perspective but not all 3 every day they’re in the Spiritual Realm.) I did enjoy it overall but felt that it did not hit the emotional depth of any of the first 4… or Dawnshard. Thanks for the review!
I feel the same sort of frustration that I can hear in your voice at the end. There's so much potential and promise and some of my favorite characters are in the first three books. But the landing just didn't stick. It's so frustrating. I wanted this to be the next great series - the next Malazan, or Wheel of Time, or Realm of the Elderings - but the last two books have been such letdowns. I think I'll have to add caveats when i describe it. It's a great series but...and I really wanted this series to not have the but.
Good job breaking it down, hands down the best review I've seen.
I've used the same word "disappointment" when I finished this book.
Every time Sanderson writes comedy or Lyft in general I want to throw my phone (audiobook) against a wall. Also while this book is vastly more interesting than the previous, he really fumbles a lot of the mystical and mythical feeling of his world. There's an entire plotline that takes place in the Spiritual Realm, where actual gods reside, and it's just watching cutscenes! There's no feeling or emotion in his writing, he just says it happens and then an emotionspren pops up like an anime sweatdrop. He also sidesteps a lot of the horror of this book too. An entire city is destroyed and all he says is "and then they all died." Bravo dude
The Spiritual Realm chapters are really hurt by Sanderson's clear, "windowpane" writing style. You would think the prose would change to make it feel more dreamy or disconnected. Instead, it's the exact same writing style, like reading a text book on the history of Roshar.
yeah Spiritual Realm was hyped up SO much beforehand, but ended up feeling like a void with occasional cutscenes. He had such a great opportunity to get mega creative with abstract imagery and all sorts of terrifying mind bending threats, but it ended up feeling pretty lame
@@krishvids608he should read more Faulkner, or Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Or hell, Guy Gavriel Kay!
@ Or Michael Moorcock
Ya, that was bad. But for a second there I thought you were going to have a real conflict of ideologies. Then later you find out Odium really saved them all. As full of dollar store philosophy as this book tried to be, NO ONE ever had to make hard decisions.
as someone who loved book 4 I was going into WaT with high hopes and although I had some of the same problems you had with it and is my least favourite in the series, I'm gonna trust that with the time that Brandon will take to focus on smaller scale stories he will be able to pull off the 2nd arc and make the series work beautifully by the end. I think the problems we all had with the book were more about the structure and writing than the actual story and those can be fixed in the later books.
BTW I read that his old editor retired which explains some of the writing and structure problems so I hope he can either work with his current editor in a different way or get a new one. He really needs to comeback with an incredible 6th book if he wants to keep readers' faith in him and not cause a slog in the middle of the series
I agree that the Kaladin storyline didn't hit and the ending felt a bit too much like a setup. However, I still loved this booked and all the new reveals that we got and things to theorize over. Some of my favorite reveals and new questions to theorize over:
The last shard is Reason
What is up with Valor that Odium could not find it?
Sigzil actually bonds with Szeth former spren 12124
Shallan is pregnant and locked in the cognitive realm?!
What is up with the 4th moon?
You and I had very similar feelings, but I only read the Stormlight Archive for the first time in 2024, so I'm still wowed by the experience. I guess that makes me feel a little less negatively about book 5 than you did, even though I agreed with everything you said.
I was bored with 90-95% of this book & almost DNF. I love almost all of his other works, and have introduced many people to at least one of his books, and joined what started as a Sanderson only book club. I had no expectations for this book beyond it would be good (failed), and we would find out how our heroes would deal with the contest with Odium in the set up for arc 2 (partial fail). The prose was bad, even for Sanderson. The insertion of modernism that was not there to the same degree in previous books was tacky (“I’m a therapist!”, being just one of many) and did not fit. There’s Plot armor for certain characters because they have already been announced in future books. And the editing…My goodness, the editing is atrocious! The book is waaay too long for the story we got(400 pages). His editor(s) (who are not the same as the one who edited the first 3 books in the series) must not know how to tell him no. If you’re going to write a 1300 page book, you better make sure it’s more than worth taking the time to read it. There is more that I won’t say to avoid spoilers. This is not just the worst Stormlight,or even Cosmere, book, but the worst Sanderson work which I have read. I am so disappointed. 1.5/5 ⭐️
Definitely agreeing with everything here. I'm so disappointed :/
Interesting, because I wasn’t bored at all. I read it in 3 weeks and I loved it.
Many books fail to meet high expectations.
This book just failed. Like you, I also had no expectations beyond what I hope for in any book.
Agree with your final thoughts on the series. First three books are amongst my favorite. It used to be my favorite series, one I’d recommend every chance I got. But book 4 was meh and honestly I reallllly didn’t enjoy book 5. Felt there were SO many issues with it. I honestly don’t feel like recommending the series anymore bc of how much this book dropped off for me. I’m sad at how much I didn’t enjoy this book.
I agree with you. I have read that his editor changed after book 3. Perhaps that has something to do with it. Perhaps not.
For this book has felt like the middle book of a trilogy. Can move too far forward, but can't stay in place. I stopped around 78 or 80, and I'm temporarily DNFing.
Jasnah's debate bothered me so much! I think in general I'm more positive on it than you but do share plenty of the same complaints
@45:54 "now he has two" - he does not have two. Rysn still has hers
I had really low expectations going in and the only character I really care about is Adolin, so I was pleased with the book😂.
Same here. Last book killed any interest I had in the other characters
One aspect of the Jasnah/Odium/Fen argument is that now that Odium is willing to work with humans, there is absolutely no reason for Thaylenah to stay in the alliance. Sure Odium is evil, but the options are side with him or get annihilated. Fen chose the reprehensible option that keeps her country safest.
but that's not the only option. Just look at Asimir. They survived and are literally one of the only ray of sunshine left. she gave up too early. its always better to die fighting that to give up and side with evil. even if you look at it like a trolly situation, what's one nation when compared to the entire cosmere.
Spoilers.
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For Wind and Truth, I have the following complaints:
- The plot was pretty predictable. It usually is not the case with Brandon Sanderson. There are some twists you have not seen coming.
- The stakes didn't feel high at all with all the stupid jokes in between and you know certain characters had plot armor based on how the plot was setup.
-- Kal must swear the 5th ideal.
-- Szeth has to go through all the mini bosses
-- Adolin has to fight against big bad fused with a name so we know nothing will happen to him until then.
-- Shallan is pregnant, shower scene. Nothing will happen to her.
- It felt like reading YA. It was pretty boring.
- The prose. What happened? How is it possible that he could make it even worse than usual?
- The modern terms were like a punch in the stomac.
- The length of the book? Cut it down. Stop repeating the same stuff.
If he decided that the book was ok the way it was and doesn't see the issues, I am guessing that the next books will have the same problems and I'm not sure I am interested anymore. It felt like watching a Marvel movie or playing a videogame. See Szeth/Kal and Adolin's arcs. If we are to expect the same level for the next 5 books and for Ghostbloods, oh god, please make it stop. Brandon, write fewer books, take more time to edit them and make them solid. What's the hurry?
This book suffers so much from the 10 days structure. I can understand the desire to follow it but as Merphy pointed out he repeats himself a lot and it emphasizes makes the similarity in a lot of the character stories in ways that detract from the fun of the book. As other stated he really needed stronger editing on this one. I over all liked it but as opposed to most of his books I had to stop and think after finishing if i did or not. It probably would have been better if it was only 5 days instead of 10. You wouldn't have expected as much to happen as 10 days made you expect. I loved Adolin's story but the general direction of his part of the story is obvious. They will fight hard most will die and they will either just succeed or just fail... I heard him speak about how he rights each characters arc/story seperately and then interweaves them together and I the day structure really hurt here as it forced him to but what would have been part of a longer/more impactful sequence for a character into a nominally realistic day's worth of action/story. So some logical sections of a character's story was too long for one day or the progress was hardly worth including them in a day but he just put them in any how...
It's weird because I have gripes with this book but I only really realised them after the fact. While I was reading it, I thorougly enjoyed it and it really hit me emotionally (which honestly is what matters most to me even if I feel slightly differently about it now). I think having just done a re-read really helped with that, because going directly into it after Rhythm of War it almost didn't feel like a "standalone" book to me. It kind of just felt like an extention of it or a new (very long) chapter so I guess in a way that put less pressure on this book because it could work off of the emotional foundation that the previous 4 had just given me, if that makes sense. That said, while I don't necessarily agree with every point you made throughout the vlog, in hindsight, I feel exactly the same way with respect to your concluding thoughts. So yeah, it's really strange, I loved the book but I also feel it could've been a lot better. Still consider this my favourite series though.
I really disliked the order of Szeth's flashbacks with the order of visiting the honor bearers and if they would have lined them up I think it would have given more meaning to each boss fight. I personally couldn't keep track of the honor bearers names and what orders they belonged to.
God I just need to avoid the internet. I consumed the book in 10 days ironically, as a father who works full time, not a booktuber, and I thought it was a great fun time. It isn't my literal favorite Stormlight book, but it also beats out other books because of their own shortcomings. Like in WoR, Shallan has that horrible boot thief chapter where she pretends to be a Horneater Princess. Gag. Or later in the book when Kaladin does his "For my boon!" cringeworthy scene. Nobody cared about the touchy-feely stuff when Kaladin defeated Amaram by asking him "Why do you still hurt?" Why was no one crying about that?
I feel like Brandon really tried to please everyone and he ended up pleasing much less people than he wanted. I see people complaining about Renarin and Rlain, but people had been guessing at Renarin x Rlain for EIGHT YEARS, so Brandon probably decided to just give it to those people. You can go watch Shardcast videos from when Oathbringer was released and the 17th shard staffers were theorizing and guessing that Renarin was gay and into Rlain that far back. But by doing that Brandon upset his extremely devout fanbase. Go on goodreads and you will see review after review claiming that they will not supporting a sinful and political message. (as if existing in a fantasy universe is political, jesus).
Somewhat related to that I see people acting like Brandon has fallen to pure hedonism, and that his whole message is "Do what makes you feel good." or that he spent all this time talking about Oaths and building up Oaths, only to say "Nah Oaths are bad." but I don't think that's what happened. I think Brandon intentionally did that, considering that this is the midpoint of the story, Empire Strikes Back if you will. The previous KR fell. This KR is in jeopardy. Knowing that W&T is the midpoint, I think Brandon purposefully put Taravangian in a position to make everyone doubt themselves. But if you pay attention, you will see that Taravangian had to make the coalition WRONG. That's why he went in person to show up Jasnah. But Dalinar didn't let him do that. That's why at the end Taravangian is WEEPING and thinking "Dalinar was right." because Taravagian is a fraud, and he was wrong.
I think in the back 5 we will come to see how much of a fraud Taravangian is, and how IDEALS (not Oaths) are good. It's not a matter of "Do what makes you feel good." when Dalinar is saying "Keeping an Oath is not an ultimate good. It is only as good as the ideals it is sworn to. Uniting is not an ultimate good. It is only as good as the purposes for the unification." Now remember the Ideals of the Knights Radiant are "Life Before Death, Strength Before Weakness, Journey Before Destination. The First Ideal of the Knight's Radiant." Oath != Ideal clearly in Brandons mind, and "Life Before Death, Strength Before Weakness, Journey Before Destination." != "Do what makes you feel good."
I am so stoked for the future of the cosmere. I know it doesn't matter if other people don't like something I like, but it's such a bummer that everyone seems to dislike the book. I can't talk to anyone without them wanting to talk shit.
Haha. Good take! Btw I enjoyed the book.
I really like how you put this together, really spoke to me. Can’t disagree with anything you’ve said.
Gays are sinful and it is wrong to show them as anything other then abominations.
I pity your child.
I think that we are of similar tastes because I also take this book as it is, the fifth book of a ten book series. And I just sort of enjoy spending the time with these characters.
The Internet is not a place for "yeah I enjoyed this, and I'm excited for the next few books" because that isn't an extreme enough reaction. Also these youtubers are reading these books on a time crunch to get their videos out so they are forcing themselves to read it. I read it over 7 days but I was hooked, there is something to be said about reading a 1300 pages book at your own pace.
If this wasn't Stormlight it would have been the first book I DNF. If I had it to do over again I would read Adolin and Sigzil parts and the last 100 pages. It was sooooooooooooooooooooooo painful.
I wish Sanderson said this is just Wind and Truth PRIME and made a re-release in a year with an actual good story. It won't happen but ok, just saying.
Haha, I love this comment.
I have the same wish. Instead of healing szeth about talking about feelings kaladin instead heals szeth through the lessons he learned through bridge 4. It could have been away to get more bridge 4 without any additional povs.
I think the biggest downfall of this book were the expectations preceding it tbh. Is it the strongest in the series? Absolutely not. But I also don't think it's the weakest. I've watched a few reviews and spoken to countless friends (and randoms) and I've kind of found the biggest detractors were the ones that went in with the highest expectations and its biggest advocates were the ones that went in with no expectations.
I think the expectations set by the Mistborn era's hurt this ending. A lot of people were expecting a Hero of Ages type conclusion. I think the quality of the first 3 books hurt this ending. I got the feeling that this book was simultaneously over and under edited. The release of TSM before W&T hurt the book. There were a lot of things that hurt the reception of this book, that really weren't any fault of the book itself.
If I had to rank the series, after sitting on W&T for a number of weeks now, it'd have to be 1 > 2 > 5 > 3 > 4.
I can't wait to read this book so I can watch this vlog
It's definitely not my favorite stormlight book but not the worst either, had a TON of good moments and wrap ups that I liked. But there was just too much...too many plot lines that should just have been unaddressed to allow for bigger focus on the more important stuff.
Normally I don't mind Sanderson's cheesyness but it felt like it was kind of out of hand, took me out of the story on more than one occasion.
Overall 7/10, really wish it wrapped up better but im not too unhappy about it.
Great video, feels like im taking crazy pills looking at the 4.5 on goodreads. This book was so much worse than I expected.
I suspect the crux of it was that it was sold to me as a conclusion to the 1st arc, which will be a distinct story. Sure didn't feel like it.
I have always seen Stormlight as a 10 book series. So to me we got more of an ending than i was expecting. I really thought this was gonna end on a cluffhanger for everyone since we still have five 1,200 page books left.
I’ve been WAITING!
I think I'm a pretty cheap date when it comes to books - in other words, my standards are pretty low! Overall, I enjoyed this book! However, a few lines and themes throughout the book just didn't jive with me. Then, I watched your review and you gave me all the words I needed! 2 points you made were super helpful. #1 That a lot of the characters were experiencing and learning and growing in the same themes! I have read 4k+ pages with all these characters around each other in some way or another that I just assumed while reading, "yeah it makes sense that they're all maturing together!" But...but they're miles/dimensions a part from one another! Such helpful words. And #2 the language used by many of the characters (including my favorite dark and depressed boi Kal) felt like a copy and paste out of a Psychology Today blog. I work in mental health as a profession and, wow, did it break the 4th wall to read some of his lines. I'll live and breathe and die a Stormblessed lover...but this book made me feel, for the first time, that, Kaladin's just a fictional character from the pen/keyboard of a man named Brandon - not this mythic hero who overcame depression and crushing betrayal to serve and care for others in need.
Lastly, while you may feel like you ended this vlog on a bummer, the VAST majority of the in-depth reviews have been worlds harsher than yours! Thanks for filming so much! One of your "My Favorite Series" videos from years ago is still the reason why I read as an adult now. You've totally reignited my passion for reading where middle school burned it out of me with required summer reading!
1:14:35 - indeed, that's exactly what i am doing right now. I am rereading the first three to feel the awesomeness of Stormlight again after the huge disappointment of WaT...
imma be real, we should have known how this would go when brando changed the name from "knights of wind and truth" (rizz, goat, flames) to "wind and truth" (L, cringe, down bad). this comment is obviously a joke but i also think there's some truth to it.
Bread made at 39:20.
Maybe I just went in with different expectations but I was more or less satisfied by the ending. I knew it was going to be the end of the first arc, and felt like the contest between Dalinar and Odium was the focal point of that ending. I'm hoping that when we have all 10 books we will look back at the ending and just see how it set up book six. It just feels worse because we know it'll be 8ish years until it continues.
This was a great watch, I shared a lot of your feelings as well (seems a lot of the comments agree).
I'm conflicted on the Fen resolution-- on the one hand I understand the argument that "I have to do what's best for my people, and your lofty ideal just means we will all die" for her. The reality that the entire world is against them, and they rely on trade to survive and thrive, so they really are doomed as a people. I also actually enjoy that Jasnah lost because of the conflict within her own ideals finally coming to a head. On the OTHER hand, there was a lot of talk about how Fen basically was like "Sure, some people are cold and calculating, but screw them I'm my own woman" only for her resolution to be... throwing away her own honor. So while her logic was pretty reasonable, it actually felt like a total conflict with her own character arc.
I was not a fan of 95% of the things dealing with the Spiritual Realm. I would have so much preferred if it had stayed a place beyond mortal reach and comprehension. What we got was a series of cutscenes that were the literal embodiment of Telling and not Showing which is super disappointing as a Sanderson fan. What we got was a lot of characters having to go in circles twiddling their thumbs because they had to be in the book, but we had to wait for all the cutscenes finish first. And then the 1-2 punch of plot BS of "Well I made a fake Gav so that Gav could spend 15 years here in an eyeblink" combined with "Also we'll use it to bring back Dark Dalinar (who will probably be redeemed in the future so that Nobody Important Dies).
I did like that Dalinar went out with the Sunmaker Gambit, and that this was somewhat foreshadowed by Adolin several days earlier while he was teaching the game to Yawnagan. Which BTW, Adolin's arc was by far my favorite, which is a delight. I also find it funny that, as you pointed out, the conflict between Dalinar and Taravangian was more philosophical. So much so in fact that it was MORE philosophical than the entire series of chapters we got that were *supposed to be* the philosophical conflict between Jasnah and Taravangian.
I also echo your thoughts and how fast Kal became a therapist. This is probably more to do with the fact that the book HAD to take place over 10 days; if there had been implied time jumps between POVs then it could have worked better.
I'm also not a fan of The Wind being a separate deity from the Adonalsium shards. It feels very late in the game to be revealing new deities, and it just makes me feel like we're going to learn that in fact Roshar was the Most Special TM world created by Adonalsium all along.
So yeah, pretty much in alignment with your experience with this book. There were some good moments, some great moments even, but some of the pacing, changes in tone, and things we're just forced to accept with the timelines really kinda dragged it down. This book did NOT need to be this long, you could easily have cut 200-300 pages out of it and lost nothing of value.
Loved the Adolin POV once he went on his own
Kaladin & Szeth next favorite
For the writing alone, W&T feels it's 1-2 drafts of editing and revision away from being polished to the quality it should be. Me and it turns out several other readers made lists of when the word choice and writing kicked us out of the narrative and it's quite long.
Narratively, I'm disappointed by the Spiritual Realm which wraps 3 POV's (Dalinar/Shallan/Renarin). It's a way to cheat the 10-day structure, makes our characters simply watch cutscenes while for some reason playing Among Us, and it ultimately contributed nothing to the end. The flashback sequences should've been given to Taln and Ash's flashback sequences in future books. The sentence that upset me the most was in Chapter 129. "Soon the terrible visions began to fade again, becoming just the ordinary Spiritual Realm again." The Spiritual Realm was supposed to be the most mysterious and arcane of the three realms, yet to have it reduced to a device to play flashbacks and be referred to as "ordinary" is egregious.
Szeth's flashbacks were the strongest narrative of the novel, but the way the Honorbearers were introduced seemed out of order and misaligned. For example, Szeth fights Moss way before we know who he is and so we meet characters in the present day and it takes way too long to learn who they are and care about Szeth's reunion with them.
Kaladin was not the character from the previous four books. Even if he wanted to take the therapist route, it's just mind-boggling how he's a totally different person and became this meek, timid man walking around eggshells for Szeth. Kaladin is a soldier with so much of his own trauma and SI tendencies, he's direct and brash. He should have enough experience to find common ground with Szeth and speak to him confidently. If you read his dialogue and removed his name, he is unrecognizable and you'd think it was Renarin speaking. Szeth is also the most dangerous and unpredictable man in the world who's killed the king and maimed several of Kaladin's friends. the way Kaladin speaks to him just doesn't feel right.
Now that I reflect more, I also think the Sanderlanche was underwhelming. It's satisfying when all the plot threads throughout a novel are woven neatly by the climax but for W&T all of them resolve individually and don't really affect each other and neither were they particularly explosive, it kind of hit like a wet blanket. I do like Dalinar's decision in the end, but the plotting to get there just was not enjoyable.
I put the book down for 2 days because of that stupid chull joke, I could not get that image out of my head. I mean seriously😐
As bad as that was, it was far from the worst line in the book. There are Marvel-level quotes in the middle of climactic moments that made me want to throw my book out the window. I cannot comprehend how anyone (even Sanderson himself) read those lines and thought they're ok to print.
@@ΧρήστοςΠαπαδημοπουλος-δ6οikr, I also hated that almost every charater was so self aware of their problems or internal struggle. And we were reminded of that like every third page.
@@ayushkatarpawar6429really? One immature joke, the likes of which have been sprinkled throughout earlier Stormlight books, was all it took to upset you that much?
That’s kinda sad
Agree with most of the points here. The Jasnah debate in particular was a turning point where I went from optimistic to pessimistic about the ending.
It's a Sanderson book without the Sanderlanche, which turns out is just an ok if uninspiring book.
My score on the end of the book. Terivodinor - good, Clonethorn - bad, coma-girl - not good, Oathless - cool.
Adolin’s story is the lone redeeming arc in Wind and Truth. In what is otherwise, the most disappointing book I’ve ever read
I think Adolins story is being overhyped too. Like it's fine... It's not great either it's just better paced.
58:07 I actually hated the way Yasnah was written in this scene. She’s meant to be an accomplished scholar and completely folded to the most blatant ad hominem attacks you’ll see. Completely broke her character for me.
Interested in what you think about the 5th version of the prologue and finding out how wrong Gavilar really was. Top 10 Cosmere jerks IMO
I think I had a pretty similar experience reading this book as you, where I wasn’t reallly enjoying the book throughout, but there were enough solid moments (basically all from adolin and first half of the szeth flashbacks) to keep me going. Plus I was banking on the ending.
After finally reaching the conclusion I was mostly just left with overwhelming disappointment. Plot wise the ending is interesting and a solid set up for the back half, but the entire book felt like destination before journey. There was no subtext, basically everything was over explained as if Sanderson believed the reader was incapable of reading between the lines.
The debate with Jasnah was insanely dissatisfying because it just felt unrealistic that Jasnah had never thought about her own hypocrisies, that’s basically her entire philosophy! It felt like Sanderson wanted to show utilitarianism is bad and chose to do it by knocking Jasnah down.
And the Kaladin’s ‘therapy’ was just hard to read the entire time. He’s simply too good at it for having invented it a week ago and he’s making progress with his ‘patients’ way too fast. The prose, especially medical language, was also just distractingly modern.
All the dialogue felt super MCUey and quippy. Like all the characters were flattened and lost their voice to make space for bad out-of-place jokes.
I have so many more problems, but I’ve probably already ranted too long..
I don't personally care if the therapy worked too fast or not; I care that it's insanely boring and uninteresting. The story came to a grinding halt every time it was the focus.
This was my major issue with the book, and I am beginning to think that it's at the root of many other people's dissatisfaction as well. People WANT to embrace good healing and trauma recovery, but the simple fact is that it's not exciting as part of a climax or as a replacement for more traditionally heroic scenes.
Kaladin was an absolute bore. He used to be fun to read. His scenes were a slog here.
Therapy sessions should remain private.
I am one of very few people who loved book 4 but book 5 was definitely disappointing. Love your review Merph! I really hope he gets a new editor before the next book or I’ll be hopping off the Sanderson train 😢
I thought it you may avoid talking about it all together
It’s okay. We are bummed aht too
Shallan has always been my fave character, I just relate to her a lot. and my fave character in malazan is Felisin so I think I have a type of woman I relate to LOL.
i've just heard a lot of ppl disappointed in her plot-lines and while I respect it I always enjoy what she brings to the story !
Shallan is a good character in theory, but Sanderson botches her execution a lot. I find her cringey a lot of times, but I think it's mainly more a symptom of her being in Sanderson's Circus of Mental Diagnoses.
i do agree that I enjoy the first 3 books a lot more.
@@TerrificRallyMaestro yeah totally, I like the idea of her character more than the execution
Been wondering when your review was gonna come out.
I had a lot of the same feelings you had. This is the first SA book that I had no desire to read a second time right after I finished. I liked WaT slightly better than RoW. Yet I still read RoW a second time. I think it is because I did not care overall for the end of this series and how it got there.
For me, it would have felt different if Shallan had made it to the Physical Realm rather than being stuck in Shadesmar. This probably has to do with her being my favorite character. So I could be biased.
I think if she Sja had been able to somehow get to Azir to be with Adolin. Let them end up together rather than being apart. We could have had the end of both of their arcs. And likewise, had the Blackthorn splinter of Dalinar not been created, it would have given more closure to Dalinar. While Retribution won by default, without retaining the Blackthorn, it would have felt more less like a true victory. Brandon has set up the shard Honor to have the capability to evolve itself. We did not need the Blackthorn having the capacity to evolve the same way Dalinar did during his lifetime. The new Moash or El could have been Retribution's Cosmere general.
Thus, we would have had more of a closure of the key primary characters from the first arc (Dalinar, Szeth, Shallan, Kaladin, as well as Adolin and Venli) have arcs resolved and be less of a focus in the next arc.
I believe Kaladin will only be a point of view character in a few interludes during Books 6 and 7. A key event in Book 9 or 10 will be the Heralds returning one last time for a final battle where they will no longer need the Oathpact and will be able to achieve a final death. They will all come back mostly mentally healed. Although the Herald who was to work for Odium may still turn out to be a traitor. Perhaps Kaladin will mentally help her as well.
I can't read the book yet so I hope you will make a non spoiler review🙏
Agree with your thoughts. It was a let down.
I liked the book, I noticed things that were weird like the editing and the pacing and did think kaladins stuff was a bit on the nose for me, but i still liked the book. it was his worst written book since elantris but i thought it had an excellent story to tell which balanced it out for me
“Shallow isn’t the right word”
“Not as deep”
I enjoyed the book, but it should have been marketed as book 6 of 10 rather than the end of a part. I felt like there was an expectation it would be more conclusive like the 1st Mistborn saga
That's actually very true, I feel like people are more harsh on it because it was marketed at "end of part 1" (though some people have criticized it so strongly that they definitely wouldn't like it either way)
@sawtoothhorse it actually reminds me a bit of "the slog" books in Wheel of Time, where you have so many characters and need to address their stories before moving on to the next "part" of the story
At least as a fan keeping up with WaT news, it always felt like it was going to end this way, with a Sanderlanche cliffhanger. The in-world gap between arcs was always said to be 10-20 years in interviews/q&a, so I went in with the expectation that at least a decent portion of the characters will carry over, and as such would require some hook to keep them interesting - unless Sanderson was going to spend another 5 books doing flashbacks from the same perspectives about the time gap. Mistborn E1-E2 has almost no characters carry-over and a much larger gap, so I had different expectations.
Oh My GOD!! your experience was almost exact to what I felt, thanks for sharing. And yes the point of being disappointed that it the end was disappointing hit home hard!!
Beeeeen waiting for your view on this book!
I enjoyed the book, but it isn’t my fave stormlight book. It has incredible highs, but definitely the lowest lows. To me this book was held back by the ten day construct that is used for the book. Certain things just felt rushed.
Also this book is the first time where I felt Sanderson needed more time to write.
Yesss
I bean waitin
Talk no jutsu...... THE BOOK!!!!
I just finished WaT yesterday, so yay for me!
Good vlog, I have to agree with so much of what you said. The book was so boring for so much, and that didn't change by the end of it. The ending was unsatisfying and not at all what we've come to expect from a Sanderson book. Easily the weakest of the books so far, barely a 3-star book, approaching 2.5.
I really appreciated your commentary on the book. I felt the same way about the book in most parts. Sanderson should watch this video, imo. I know he can do better. It's sad that peak Sanderson was with Words of Radiance, and sadly I believe he wont ever return to that high point. I sure as heck want him to, but I dont think he will. This book felt like a huge flat line just above 60 points (in a scale of 1 - 100). Even RoW had higher highs, and lower lows. He definitely needs better editors, but more important: better FRIENDS that actually tell him "hey, this isnt working, this is boring, not everyone loves ALL your characters as you do, the mental illness theme has become extremely invasive and it throws off the readers", that kind of stuff.
Very good comments all the way around. I liked the way you provided a balanced view. I loved the book, but I do understand the criticism, although I think some (not yours) has been a bit overwrought.
Sometimes I wonder if Merphy is a Fiend of a Thousand faces. A god of sauce.
Pls review golden compass by phillip pullman
I would love to hear your thoughts on it
1:02:06 Kindlelabra? :D