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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- Folks have asked us about Saigas chambered for the 7.62x39mm round, so when one came around, we decided to talk about it and also take it to the range.
The Saiga here started off life as a standard hunting/sporting version and was then converted by a local gunsmith into something like an AK-103 clone.
We compare it with my trusty SGL31-94, and then talk a bit about the history behind Izhmash, the Legion custom shop, and various Arsenal/FIME imports.
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I got my first Saiga in 2008 when I got back from Iraq for 600 sporterized. Had it converted in Virginia by a local gunsmith. I sold it in 2013 (like an idiot) to buy a garbage C39v2, and have always regretted it. Ever since I've been trying to get it back, and in 2019 I got a SMOKING deal on a CSS converted Saiga, and I feel whole again. Will never buy another Century as long as I live.
Apparently the VSKA is still doing okay in the AK Operators Union testing but I would still feel more comfortable with something like an NPAP or a WASR
Ouch...Saiga for C39? just ouch man, much sympathy.
@@burmiester1 yeah idc if they cherry picked a rifle that was made semi decently for akou I will never touch century u.s made product ever
@@burmiester1 Doesn't change the fact that Buck Angel and Tim/MAC saw two back to back completely fail headspace withing 1500 rounds right when they came out. They're still garbage, avoid.
@@Sporora Trust me, I have no plans to buy any Century AKs
I kind of miss that thing now that I watched this video again. I should add that this Saiga had a stepped chamber... spent brass would have what appeared to be a step (or a crimp) on the neck of the casing. I read that this was the Russian authority's way of identifying if a firearm used was a civilian or a military firearm.
I own a Swiss K31 rifle. I noticed when shooting it that on the neck of the Brass there is an indentation/crimp on the very top. Now after reading this it makes sense to me, as the rifle i own was used by the Swiss military back in 1951.
I did not know that
Now that's attention to detail. I'm just starting my gunsmithing career/education and strive to achieve that level of craftsmanship.
@@jkalash762 please if you have any insight to a fellow future gunsmith
@@christophermcdonald7667 you really just need to devote yourself to reading and researching everything you can and try to apply small bits of it until you get comfortable enough to tackle more difficult tasks. One of the keys is having a strong grasp of the cycle of operations and how the steps are achieved in the various action types. If you understand that you can handle repairs on most firearms with a schematic to help guide you. The modifications are skills that are learned as you progress mostly. Things like welding and machining you'll definitely need to take some courses on if you don't have a background with them.
I love my SGL 21. I installed Russian Red wood furniture from Legion, and for me it’s just right. The wood furniture changes the feel of the rifle. I don’t know how to describe the difference other than to say that with the wood, it feels more alive and responsive. Sounds crazy, I know.... but it does.
You're 100% correct brother.
Years ago I picked up a new Saiga 32-61 (5.45x39). Sent my paperwork off and a year later I had an AK105. Rifle Dynamics did the work. They converted the stock to folding, cut and crowned the barrel. My favorite SBR to this day!
Today was off to a suboptimal start but wait, there's a new mishaco video!
I picked up my SGL 31/68 the day Kalashnikov died. Just in time a few months before the absurd ban kicked in. Wish I bought a few more but I'm thankful for the one I have and it is a great shooter.... Mikhail wouldn't want it to be a safe queen.
the308capital weird!!! I picked up my 3rd SGL-21 same day. We must be related!
Nice! Love my saiga more now. And I watched that AK in action from the 9-Hole review 👍
I Missed out on the Saiga boat, but i got a collection of Veprs I'm never going to part with.
😍
I missed all the Russian ones like an idiot. I even let go of my really nice first run sam7sf for nothing 😡
@@TheREALLibertyOrDeath i got a couple sporter saigas with the parts to do a proper 103+74m conversion now
@@0Asterite0 🤔 yeah I’m seeing them for around 1200
Notice also that Saiga safety lever had the small dimple far-forward on the lever...causing a "Stripe" to cut across and mar the receiver at a different location than the true military version.....which has this small dimple in a bit rear-ward location, and not so far forward..
Wow! Didn't realize how much had to be done to convert these beauties to their original configuration.
I like the plum furniture on 5.45 AKs than black. I know that black furniture is more modern and has improved characteristics, but in Russia we have so many deactivated training rifles/CO2 bb AKs/blank firing only guns etc. A lot of people have them and black furniture is losing its aestetic value. Even if you hold a real AK-74m/Saiga it's harder to convice people that you are holding a real rifle. Anyway, it's just my opinion coming from a Russian person.
Thanks for the video, Misha. I always enjoy your videos and learn from you. I learned about AKs from you more than from any different person.
If it helps, my AKS74 clone (SLR104FR) is dressed in plum. So with it in plum, i like having the AK74M with its proper black. Plus finding a plum folding stock for a 5.5 pin is pretty difficult I think, cheers.
that's interesting to hear, thanks for sharing :)
@@misha5670 I've never seen a 5.5mm plum folding set, only the RPK boot version. Did they make those for anytime?
My SGL21 has plum furniture. I love it.
As always informative and neutral. Love my SGL 31-68. Paid hefty in 2018, but its quality/dependability is worth the ticket price. Awesome vid Misha.
Dragunov38 I'm trying to keep up with the models. Did the SGL 31-68 start off as a sporter and undergo the conversion? I believe it did not, but I know you can answer my question. Thanks in advance.
@@UnitedArmory The SGL31-68 model, was sold by K-Var as a, AK-74M semi-auto configuration. The receiver still a 5.45x39 SAIGA... For my rifle, it was the FIME group out of Las Vegas, that performed the conversion.
@@Dragunov38 I very much appreciate the info. I'm looking at one now but from the details I've seen (rivet pattern, separated trigger gaurd and mag release) it doesn't appear to be a conversion at all.
@@UnitedArmory If you can strike a good deal, and the rifle is in good condition. Paying up on a Saiga receiver on this day and age is not absurd... The value of these will only continue to go up giving our current and foreseeable state. If you move forward your next step will be to find a reputable builder to convert it for you. Keep in mind that you will have the core and closest specs to a Russian AK74m spec in the states... Good luck.
@@Dragunov38 I've hadve both Saigas versions, the Las Vegas converted one w/the metal folder then a non converted w/o a folder. Somehow I got really lucky on the non converted Saiga (IZ-240) since both the GB and the FSB were/had already been factory 'pinned on' so obviously the bbl had already been factory drilled with matching pins...Which made/makes the front end conversion so much easier than if the GB and FSB had been 'dimpled' on the the bbl....So after going thru hell removing pressed on parts off the bbl w/o mistake you'll have to precisely drill out the pin holes.
It wasn't mentioned but one thing you have to do on these conversions is that you have to measure and mark precisely were you're going to file out the hand guard retaining notch because if you're off by 1mm or so the HG retainer locking lever won't close or else the hand guards won't fit.
As always, well done and thanks for another awesome video!!
What an amazing wealth of knowledge you are Mishaco. Thank you.
Your channel has taught me so much about the Ak platform and firearms in general thank you
I have learned soo many things from this channel ... all the neat little details .
just bought a Saiga in 223/556 from gunbroker and in new condition surprisingly
Great video, buddy! Right down my alley. No wonder the SGL 21 folders are going for $3k++.... I wonder how many 21's actually came in total. I'm very happy with my plum SGL31-68. Shoots great.
Darin Kats got a plum one too!
I think the BHO is an SGL-26, not 21-26. I bought one that the seller advertised as an SGL-21. The 26’s get less money but are a good buy for someone who wants a shooter. Thanks for the video!
Misha, Could you talk about the Izhmash SGL22-94 (AK104) and story behind it's import for the Die Hard movie and the rarity?
I have the Arsenal Legion SGL21-61 and the Bulgarian SLR107FR31. I love these guns.
Everytime I see your SGL-31 I become overwhelmed with envy. Also your SLR-104FR. Why is it so damn hard to buy a 5.45 AK?????
I know where to get one
Thanks for the info! I had picked up a 308-1 with the 22" barrel, wood hunting furniture, 0000xxxx sn, back in 2001. Due to the initial lack of conversion support it's only had a few hundred rounds through it in the last 20 yrs. Looking around more recently it looks like it may now be a worthwhile conversion project.
No don’t do it ! There’s stocks out there that fit without changing it...
I love these rifles and buy them when I see them!
Awesome video, with great info, thank you, sir!
AK lore god. These guns are 3-4K now
Thanks for the video. Its exactly the in-depth info Ive been looking for. I came across a Saiga locally with the pistol grip conversion, but im not an AK guy and it can be kind of confusing to get certain info straight. Well now I know theres a lot more that needs to be converted to be military than I realized! I really want a Russian made AK so I guess i'll have to live with the missing bayo lug, no cleaning rod mounts and non-threaded muzzle. I dont have the means to do that kindve gunsmithing myself so i wish i knew where I could go to get it done properly. I think that might mess with my OCD but I want to buy it before the new semi-auto laws take effect so I guess i'd rather settle than have no gun at all.
Next level saiga conversion video could be a fully AK 100 series conversion and contrast. Just got done with a 101. Arsenal never made a sgl series in 556 and my bank account hates me 🤣
I enjoy watching all your videos. Always very informative. If you ever come to Oahu hit me up I’d like to meet you and talk AK. Aloha
Right after the sanctions hit, I found a used, never really shot, fixed stock fime group Sgl21. Cablahs had listed it as a conversion for $699. Felt like I got one up on the big box store lol
Good stuff, I like the SGLs over the standard Saigas; no leftover holes to plug and usually neater/nicer markings.
Good video as always thanks for the detailed explanation. Regarding the front end, now I know why gunsmiths charge so much for a proper Saiga conversion.
So glad I managed to buy two 5.45 Saigas back in 2009. I left one original for now, and the other I have converted with Bulgarian 74 front end parts and its in K-Var plum furniture. The gas block and front sight were dimple pressed and you were not kidding about how much work it took to get them off!
I wonder if Misha's other senses are heightened since he is blind. Like, he can feel certain recoils or movements or distinguishes certain blasts more finely than other people.
Great video keep em coming Man
I’m picking up a sgl 21 and a Arsenal SLR107CR-67 tomorrow
Love my Russian Saiga SGL21.
Salty Steel it’s my favorite rifle!
Have a Saiga 7.62 Sporter. Guess i left it in the safe too long to long, and I'm not sure I can find parts to convert it as far back as possible to its AKM style configuration. May just take it to a local gunshope and trade it.
You can still coverted you just need to find a gunsmith that knows how to work on AKs. I would love to buy it if I had the chance
Now any AKs of quality you have to drop more than $600. I want the days of cheap Chinese AKs back, it was before my time unfortunately for me.
The big difference is I want both
I remember looking through my father's Soldier of Fortune Magazines back in the 80s and seeing Chinese AKs for like 200 with a discount if you bought 2 or more.
I was lucky to get my Saiga back in 2008 for 600. My stupid ass sold it in 2013 for a Century C39v2.
Finally got one back in 2019 for 1200, but got 800rds on top of the deal. So, a 400 idiot tax for selling.
Be glad you can still get an Arsenal for 900 w free shipping. There are after market parts now too. 2008 there was practically nothing that I remember with pic rails and modern accessories.
The Russians are catching on and know what their rifles are worth. Zastava prices will be going up as well.
Honestly i feel that you get what you pay for. I honestly would rather pay more for a quality AK. Than pay less for a cheap piece of junk. I understand that not everyone can afford buying expensive AKs but work hard and save and you can get just about a anything you want. Get it now cause whats comming politically in this country is going to be a disaster.
@@weathforjr Wouldn't matter if the Russians were catching on or not. Russian AK's are sanctioned, and no longer importable. The Arsenals that are being sold right now are Bulgarian, and closer to $1,100.
@@bodhi2932 try palmetto state armory. They have something there g3 something or other for 500 beans. Its an american unproven ak but its an ak.
Nice guns..... but I’ll have to stick to my budget tricked out gamer wasr10 for now! Wish I could have a saiga tho!
I love my 5.45 saiga
I go back and watch this video again from time to time. When I heard you say the SGL-20's had the Bulgarian front sight base, I went to compare mine with my SGL-21. The front sight bases are identical. However, looking online, it does appear that many (if not most) SGL-20s did indeed have short collar Bulgarian front sight bases. Could it be that later SGL-20's had the Russian ones?
I have a siaga legion Ak74 factory conversion,has not been fired.what are these worth now?
I’ve seen them go for as much as $4000 on Gunbroker
I have a very nice s12k conversation. Russian side folder stock and front cratch installed. Soetnaz grip too
Hello Misha. I have a question Im trying to put a value on a unfired Arsenal sgl21 that is also a krebs 103. It has the krebs emblem stamp into the reciver. I have the original paper work from 2012 an Krebs has this rifle on file. It was sent to krebs directly from Arsenal then sold at my local shop.
Misha, in comparing a well converter Saiga in 7.62 x39mm, are there other options that are commercially available that you would choose instead? I mean, with the Saiga's appeal as a banned Russian original, and IZHMASH's reputation for quality,...
Want to throw a question on the table here:
Izhmash Saiga 7.62x39, converted, chromed barrel, ALG trigger, 1968 furniture, with muzzle break, unused. Found one for 2700.
Thoughts?
I'm honestly not sure. I just got a sporter version with the 20 inch barrel for 1000. Such a good looking rifle!
Looking 4 info on siaga 5.56/ 223 target/ bull barrel.
I have a saiga ak the front hasn't been converted but for me i like it like that. I can put my hand further forword. Its been the best damn investment I could have made. Of course i do shoot it now and then.
Oh and mine doesnt have the stepped chamber
It's depressing to hear the history of saiga pricing.... I would have bought crates of them and buried them in cosmoline.
Most people didnt like like them. They were hard to sell at $350 back in the day
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M.AZAM. PAKHOOTON
HUMBLE STUDENT OF, MEDICINE, ISLAM &LAW.
Hi Misha. Where can I buy a good Saiga? I rely on your channel for information on AKs. But when it comes to purchasing the best Saiga for the money, I'm not sure exactly who to trust. Please let me know a good place to buy one. Thanks again for all this information.
A new question for an old video. Do you think Arsenal filled up those extra holes on the sporter rifle and then painted over it for the SGL21? I somehow doubt it, it's a lot of custom works.
Is Saiga really that much better & pricey than the Arsenal SLR 107?
I have an IZ-132 I'm currently converting. The barrel does not have a divet for the front handguard retainer. Are they easy enough to cut in to the barrel? I see that conversion has the normal retsiner.
The Saiga Genesis
I could say it's the best in Aks family. For many reasons. Reliability, Accuracy,ammo availability.
САЙГА-МК 7,62 исп.30
about $560 here
So were all of the SGL 31-94 receiver cutouts for the stock latch and trunnion cutouts done by Arsenal/FIME as well?
7:00 I just wanted to ask if its a polish mag. Its a Radom Generation I (metal reinforced).
I sold mine for double the price I bought it for but I still regret it
That's often how it goes...money is nice but it disappears quicker than we'd hope.
I wonder what my sgl-2161 is going for now, bought in 2010 for 800 bucks new which I thought was a lot for an ak lol
Mishaco,
Do you have any info on the Arsenal SGL 10? I walked out on purchasing one for $1.1K because I wasn't too fond of the holes from the PG conversion, but I found out the rifle sold when I asked the seller to go down on its price...
Woot woot 🍾🇺🇸
I had an ak74m that seemed what I thought had factory black painted buttstock,I wonder if it was originally izhmach made or done by someone.
Quality wise is there any difference between Arsenal SGL and FIME SGL?
How do you not know how to pronounce the name of the gun you rambled on about for almost half an hour?
I do really appreciate the footage of the rifle though. You're great filmographer.
The pin that holds the spring for the mag release looks weird.
I want the folder so bad I have a IZ 240 Saiga in 545 its getting a full conversion, holes welded up trigger guard replaced with Russian one s well as al the other parts. I want a folder but damn when one does pop up for sale theyre 5 grand plus
Misha I was looking at picking up a 2nd SAIGA on GB, after being happy with my 1st one. But the one I was looking at did not have dimples, and was the reason why I didn’t end up buying. Was this a common thing for the SAIGA imports some having dimples others not..
Sure, many Saiga hunters lacked the dimples.
In your opinion what are the a case we should be fine right now? Kind a like how a bunch of us miss the $300 saigas and when beryls were under 1k. Thanks all jesus
As far as accuracy goes. They're both the same?
I think i got mine around 2014 or so for 700 and the bolt holds open on the last round fired. Always thought that was weird. Im guessing the shop did a mod?
Are you using yugo mags?
That bottom saiga has a military overrun receiver
Saiga a true russian native
Yep, you can't get a more original Russian AK than a Saiga. Yes, there are Molots too, but the VEPR is based on the RPK and not AK.
Wondering what my sgl21-61 is worth now, paid 800 bucks for it brand new in 2011
Can't find the video u are referring to where u compare akm with ak 100 and old series ak
It was posted just a month or so ago. Check the playlist; several different comparison vids there.
So what's better
I found a partially converted Russian Saiga. It’s $599 and I’ll finish the conversion. Should I get it or are there better options?
You better have bought it.
Why did Arsenal decide not to install a pistol grip reinforcement plate for authenticity when they installed the side folding stock?
I'd imagine they didn't have any to install, and even if they did, probably they didn't think it was worth the time + trouble of unriveting and rerivetting the trigger guard just to put something in there that most people wouldn't even notice. Plus the plate doesn't really do anything. Having it is a cosmetic thing, unless you are in the habbit of dropping your rifle with the stock folded, very hard and very on the pistol grip.
I have an Arsenal SLR-104fr and 107fr. Those do have the plate. I assume the plate and side folder were installed at the factory in Bulgaria?
Plate yes, as for the folding stock, that's a bit more complicated thanks to how import rules work.
Dear Guys,
Are you planning on doing a vid on the new aes10b? I'd love to get your take on it. Didn't know if it was in the cards.
Sincerely, Leman of the Rus'
Yeah - Misha got one recently, so it's in the cards. You shot yours yet? - Jay
@@MishacoOBA not shot it yet. I've been fitting and refinishing the furnature and looking at a vortex optic to zero. I will soon, though
Got one here, just awaiting a good time to get out to shoot it.
@@misha5670 Ho ho ho mamma...
fine work price in us dollars ?
Price
I have a ak47 chambered in 223 and want to convert it. Is it worth it? What is the gun worth? I can send pics.
Convert it at a good gunsmith.
Only if I would have paid attention back then, now anything I think is or may be valuable in the future, I jump on immediately. Example, just felt like calling my local gun shop im a regular at, asked if there was anything in that's up my alley, they know what I like, and said yeah, got a Romanian Romak-1 all matching numbers , hardly used, immediately I said put it aside, I'm on my way! Got there and it was a beauty! Burnt yellow orange 🍊 furniture, very clean gun well taken care of, and way things are going today and AK prices hitting record highs, he said he had to atleast get $700 out of it, and I don't need to try to haggle he gives me better deals than say a regular customer, so I agreed and bought it. With the way wasr's are going up to $999 and I've seen crazy numbers on GB but nevermind that, I figured $700 for a classic that's no longer imported and in mint condition, I thought I did pretty good considering the market right now, 2 months ago I picked up a Wasr 10/63 at the same shop for $575, so I'm very happy to buy anything under $800 at this point in time, which is almost impossible. Picked up 2 mint, I mean absolute 👌 cherry 🍒 Chinese SKS, both matching, got both for $750. Hell, 5 years ago these prices would have been considered high for what I just bought lol oh well. Love the videos, look forward to them
What are these guns going for now a days?
About 2-3 thousand
Nowadays the difference is the Saigas sell for about 1400-1800 & the SGLs start at 2200 & up.
why do they have two bayonet lugs?
One lug is for the bayonet. The other lug is the "accessory" lug. It's really the grenade launcher lug.
How much less valuable is the rifle if it has no dimples?
Worthless 😂
@@andrewgates8158 Sold it for $4200😂🤣😂
saiga is still different to military ak, barrel cuting is diffirent
Didn't take you long to put A sling on it.
Kicking myself in the ass for trading a fully converted saiga 7.62x39 for a converted saiga 308. The 308 is cool and its more rare than the x39 saigas as far as I know. I recently wanted to buy a saiga in 7.62x39 and they are going for crazy crazy prices. The 308 I got is only going for 1k tho. Why is this the case? I understand a Ak 103 clone is more desirable but the 308 less common right? I'm actually thinking about selling it or trading it back for another saiga or may be even an arsenal slr107fr. 308 is pretty sweet but I want a military clone. I was also thinking about making my 308 saiga into a ak308 style clone. I know you can't do it right cuz they are different guns but I'm thinking if I got a ak 100 series folding trunion installed and I get the correct furniture. I have already ordered the custom made front sight and bayo lug for it. Ill be installing a 24mm Bulgarian style flash hider on it with the 24mm thread adapter to screw onto the 5/8 threads. What do you think I should do misha? Should I try and trade it for a converted saiga in 762x39 or sell it for one. Or should I hold onto to it and make it an ak 308 style clone? The previous owner already converted the trigger guard with a shitty allumnium bolt on one. The gun works perfectly though and everything is straight on it. What's your thoughts on the saiga 308? Keep it or trade it?
Thanks!
Rarity really has little to do with market value. People tend to want copies/clones of military service guns. Something like a .308 Saiga might be neat and fun to shoot, but it is very much just a civilian only gun.
@@misha5670 yeah that's what I figured. Do you think it would be worth doing a ak308 clone thing out of it? Barrel profile is different. Are you aware of the ak308? Its still just for import but intended for militaries. I figure my saiga 308 is already converted and has had the barrel threaded so its no longer in original condition so why not?
Keep the 308. Barrel length?
I absolutely love my Sgl31. Svetlana is a virgin safe queen never been shot.
Could you explain 922r?
Not OP and a bit late but basically you have to have at least 6 parts in your firearm that are US made in order for your firearm to be compliant with the “922r”.
Beautiful Saiga!
@@sealandgi8724 Thanks, I figured it out a bit ago, but good to have this here for posterity.
No rifle better than ak
Russian or Usa????
I have a sgl 31 -95 which is russian i only paid 600 bucks from back in the day before sandy hook.
SGL31-95 w/ the side folding stock?
Hold on to that thing! They are selling well over $2k now....
I got the Fixed stock
21-95 = side folder, the fix stock had a few different numbers, but probably is a SGL21-68 or 61? (at a guess).
Anybody changed the butt-stock of this rifle? It greatly diminishes the fun of this BTW very good rifle. Typically Russian way of doing things. Even if they do sth good, affordable and reliable they always must add some crap to the product - in this case completely wrong butt-stock.
I think Arsenal is way overrated and way overpriced My buddy waited more than 3 months for his And after all the bullshit I don't think it was all that