Tragically, a very bad man. 💔 and I’m so very sorry he led your family astray. I pray you have found a sound church and healing, friend. That is the only point of exposing these men. Truth.
If the first time someone finds out about a cloud that happened in a state he wasn't in is from a magazine, it makes a lot of sense that the timeline will never work. WMB was such an opportunists. He didnt hesitate to say all kinds of things that had nothing to do with him had everything to do with him.
Another dimension??! Y'all, I am so embarrassed. I can't believe I ever had anything to do with this. In my defense, the way I got into my cult church was, we had a regular pastor and a regular church. He was mysteriously replaced. I'm kind of think he was blackmailed, and another man whom we had never met took his place. And that's when our cult days started. I was watching some Rodney Howard Browne footage earlier today. I can't believe I stayed for that. I'm listening to you examine this and everything in me wants to screen, who cares. The man was worthless. Walk away.
Thank you John and Pastor Charles. I chrome cast this episode on the big screen. It helped me a lot. Blessings from South Australia 🇦🇺. I know nothing about "The Message Cult" till I saw your first episode yonks ago, now. Blessings to you both.
That was a wonderful presentation! You hit it out of the park. This issue is where the message starts to fall apart. And the message preachers have no answer.
I never saw it either. In my then feeble mind, I concluded perhaps it was meant for only WMB and we are forcing to see something that was not meant for us to see.
The vgr sells the picture of William Branham with the halo over his head. If the photograph studio still owns the copyright to the photo, maybe the money trail should be investigated between vgr and the studio.
@@EnlighteningTopicsI wonder. Either that or the photographer had an informal agreement, save my son and you can use the picture. John has said in the past that he has not been able to find anything on paper transferring the ownership of the copyright to the cult.
I rushed into marrying my husband in 2011 because our pastor convinced me that there was going to be a 50 year jubilee and the rapture was going to occur in 2013... I really don't think I would have married him if it weren't for that and I'll just say it's been a rough road. I just wanted to experience being married for a couple of years before the rapture... We have a beautiful son, but it is so hard for me to come to terms with everything and how it began. I wasted 10 years in "the message" and luckily the minister who took over agter his dad (the pastor) died basically told me not to come back in April 2020 when I didn't attend for a couple of weeks due to Covid. He set me free, but I dealt with insomnia that night and many nights since- severe chronic insomnia for almost 3 1/2 years. I recently repented of being involved in the cult as well as some other things and asked God to heal me. I have been sleeping very well ever since- praise God!!!
I'm speaking from the perspective of a non-cult person, but I always found the obsession with pictures in the cult really disturbing. It seemed really dysfunctional, though I didn't really have a lot of evidence for my feelings. And now I see my gut was not wrong. Strangely, my grandmother predicted that the third and fourth generation would see the beginning of the collapse of the Branham cult, i.e., it would be the grandchildren and great-grandchildren that would begin to see through the problems.
I always thought there was something wrong with me because I didn't think the cloud didn't look like a pyramid. That's what the cult did to us. I always thought there was something wrong with we me, never with the nonsense they told us.
They're masters with this. Making you feel stupid, because you don't understand what they try to say. Also make you feel guilty for not agreeing with them... Not to forget the duplicity in this. They say something that one *can* agree with and then slide the meaning of it... And yes, the 'children of God' demonstrate that the wicked can use names like God and Jesus.
The deepest regret in my life is having been a believer of this hell bound cult ! How on Earth did I stay over 30 years in this thing ? It's freaking and spooky ! Branham was looking for something in people to compensate for what he lacked in life !
Me too. And being in the cult caused terrible things in my life, big and small, like never going to college. Like staying with an abusive husband for 22 years. I mourn the 28 years I gave them that I will never get back. I try to focus on how good my life is now. But those years are a huge loss.
Doesn't the book of Revelation say that the only one worthy to open the seven seals is the lamb that was slain? Last time i heard that was Jesus, not WMB.
I'm really curious now, if my pastor in Ga or Florida knnew about this. I remember getting Rebecca's magazine with that article in the mail! I read the article and thought someone like, that's weird, and didn't even think about it again. Talk about a brain in deep hibernation!! Do you have a link to that article on your website, John? I would love to read it with a brain that isn't asleep! I sure wish I still had that magazine!
That was really interesting, so Rebecca ne er says why WMB was I. Houston, just that he was invited to preach. And she turns the cloud into one thing and the so called visitation of the angels to WMB into a separate event that happened on March 8th, totally contradicting her father, but scrambling to come up with some hope plausible explanation of the facts. Very interesting. This is the first time I've read anything pro Branham in so long and the verbiage, worshipful attitude and glorification of WMB is nauseating, but I'm glad I read it. It's hard, after reading something like that mot to be really angry at myself for ever believing this nonsense. But being mad at myself for something I started doing over 40 years ago isn't helpful. Thanks for the link!!
This is why all mess age pastors tell the sheep to stay away from “John Collins”and “Believe the sign” The message cannot stand up to research. It’s an Only Believe thing
Oh yes. These ministers are not in denial , they have so many things at stake that are the reasons they refuse to check the research of believe the sign
Thank you so much John and Charles for making this video, it's so important!! The cloud, the seals, all of it are so foundational to this cult. Jesus said to build your house on the rock, not the sand. I guess it goes without saying that houses should not be built on clouds. You know John, I, too, regret things i said and attitudes i had towards others when i was in the cult. Especially when my ex was a pastor for 10 years, i gave a lot of women a lot of toxic advice that can send me into a spiral of guilt all these years later and I dismissed people, oh they aren't Christians, fill in the blank. Yeah, I think we all did that. Thanks!!
Sounds like the son in law was comparing branham to Philip and the eunuch. Philip walked with him no more. 39 "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea." Only difference between branham and philip was branham traveled back in time and philip experienced translating to another place, but not in time. 😂 close but no cigar 😂
I wonder if dance school is mandatory for all so called message ministers. They have to dance around lots of different things, since WMB lied about so very many things.
The shout is heard by both the living and the dead in Christ, with the dead rising first in response, as supported by passages such as Matthew 25 and 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:17, 5:10; 2 Thessalonians 2:1. Consequently, William Branham's "revelation" of "the Rapture," which claims the shout is exclusively for the living saints, is false. The shout originates from outside the church residing on earth and prompts all saints to "come out" (not "go out"),(Mat. 25:6) and meet the Lord in the air before accompanying Him to earth.The notion of a separate gathering of living saints independent of the dead is contrary to the Scripture-created by William Branham for self-promotion. The same false idea was forcefully touted by Lee Vayle and others.
I sed to try and find the angels in the cloud too. No success!! Another case ofvthe emperor's new clthes. We never stopped talking about the cloud! We talked about it all the time and told people about it and we all thought it was very important. I dont trust any of them.
I've just watched this part 2 of this video and I'm very much disappointed and angry at the same time. If what you guys have said is not true, then I'm deceived. But if what you said is true (with all the evidence you've provided) then I'm deceived again beyond measure. I'm really upset and I must go to church tomorrow 23 July 23. I've just downloaded the book of Nathan Rivera, A Logic Refutation Of Branham's Message
He could've said, there were 6 angels, because he was supposed to be the 7th angel. just saying we were told the head of Christ, never saw the pyramid or the head or the angels that formed the cloud
God was only trying to come close to us so that we can understand Him but we have failed. He has so much love , He suffers to be called bad names only that He should come close to us and listen to our woes. Unfortunately we have misunderstand Him. Too canal to understand. Sorry that we pivked problems in the messages intead of our problems being solved but that dies not disprove God . We will see wgere we went wrong but the message is the truth
Another thing of sects, if you think being part of a sect disqualify someone you're lying to yourself 😁, John the Divine who was the disciple whom Jesus loved and wrote the book of Revelation, was part of a sect called the "Esseniens", so.. 😊
For those unaware of the obvious distraction in this statement, remember to separate ** destructive ** sect/cult from simply using the word "sect" or "cult". BITE Model: freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/ Discussion on the subject by cult expert: freedomofmind.com/john-collins-branhams-message-cult/
Who exactly were you trying to fool with this comment @gessomy1495? The video is presenting how your prophet lied and created a whole story which has enslaved people till death and you’re here typing about John the divine. So you’re not even going to explain how WMB claimed he was at one place when the fact shows that he was at another?
Guys, so what's the problem if he confused the day he was there? Some places he said it was one day or two days before or after, does it mean it didn't experience any supernatural? You guys are so carnal, there's nothing which disqualify him of being a prophet, if we should be upright then we have to disqualify a lot of prophets and people in the Bible too, there's nothing which disqualify WMB of being a prophet, gifts and callings are without repentance. Abraham lied to Abimelec and that never disqualified him of being a patriarch, Hosea went out with a prostitute and that didn't disqualify him of being a prophet, Isaiah told a prophecy to Ezechias about his death and came back to change it, and that didn't disqualify him of being a prophet.., so if you think lying or confusing dates disqualify anyone of being a servant of God, then you need to reject the Bible, otherwise you aren't serious and you just making noise 😀😂😊
Why are you lying to us? You're doing the same thing as William Branham. And why are you disparaging the Bible and the prophets of the Bible in order to defend William Branham? That is wicked.
It doesn't suprise me the aqusations ,all bad things you say about the ministry and life of the prophet William Marrion Branham, even the Lord Himself they called Him names .This is folly of the devil, why can't concentrate with your ministry and church ,I may ask what have you achieved as prechers or ministers
Continue with these podcasts which are so dry without any soiritual moisture in it . Very sad. Why slienating ourselves from God? Just because of money? I do not understand
U people a being misled, i met the cloud myself,other brothers even caught it in camera,hanging in jungles of Afruca ,small terbanacle s walls,whats blessing u * yoh
All those years we believed he was underneath that cloud meeting the angels. What kind of a man would lie about something like that?
A False Prophet? 😅
WMB was just something else. Honestly. The man was a mess!
Tragically, a very bad man. 💔 and I’m so very sorry he led your family astray. I pray you have found a sound church and healing, friend. That is the only point of exposing these men. Truth.
A very evil man is the kind of person who would lie about something like that.
False prophet
William Branham is the true form of Doctor Who.
If the first time someone finds out about a cloud that happened in a state he wasn't in is from a magazine, it makes a lot of sense that the timeline will never work. WMB was such an opportunists. He didnt hesitate to say all kinds of things that had nothing to do with him had everything to do with him.
Another dimension??! Y'all, I am so embarrassed. I can't believe I ever had anything to do with this. In my defense, the way I got into my cult church was, we had a regular pastor and a regular church. He was mysteriously replaced. I'm kind of think he was blackmailed, and another man whom we had never met took his place. And that's when our cult days started. I was watching some Rodney Howard Browne footage earlier today. I can't believe I stayed for that. I'm listening to you examine this and everything in me wants to screen, who cares. The man was worthless. Walk away.
Thank you for another excellent video. Keep them coming.
My newest favorite saying is that facts cannot ever hurt truth.
Thank you John and Pastor Charles. I chrome cast this episode on the big screen. It helped me a lot. Blessings from South Australia 🇦🇺. I know nothing about "The Message Cult" till I saw your first episode yonks ago, now. Blessings to you both.
That was a wonderful presentation! You hit it out of the park. This issue is where the message starts to fall apart. And the message preachers have no answer.
I remember the pastor in my former message church preaching saying that a woman who cut her hair has no salvation...so much nonsense and fear
That same book, A Logical Refutation of WMBs Message is the very first anti Branham thing i ever read. Its definitely worth reading!!!
I was also told that with a magnifying glass we could make out the wing feathers of the angels forming the cloud.
❤😅
And don't think you could see it even with hubble telescope. But then again I am lost so... Don't take my word for it😊
@@LoveCoffe56 Nah, I never saw it.
I never saw it either. In my then feeble mind, I concluded perhaps it was meant for only WMB and we are forcing to see something that was not meant for us to see.
@@LoveCoffe56LOL!!!
The vgr sells the picture of William Branham with the halo over his head. If the photograph studio still owns the copyright to the photo, maybe the money trail should be investigated between vgr and the studio.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
They probably give them a percentage till this day.
@@EnlighteningTopicsI wonder. Either that or the photographer had an informal agreement, save my son and you can use the picture. John has said in the past that he has not been able to find anything on paper transferring the ownership of the copyright to the cult.
I rushed into marrying my husband in 2011 because our pastor convinced me that there was going to be a 50 year jubilee and the rapture was going to occur in 2013... I really don't think I would have married him if it weren't for that and I'll just say it's been a rough road. I just wanted to experience being married for a couple of years before the rapture... We have a beautiful son, but it is so hard for me to come to terms with everything and how it began. I wasted 10 years in "the message" and luckily the minister who took over agter his dad (the pastor) died basically told me not to come back in April 2020 when I didn't attend for a couple of weeks due to Covid. He set me free, but I dealt with insomnia that night and many nights since- severe chronic insomnia for almost 3 1/2 years. I recently repented of being involved in the cult as well as some other things and asked God to heal me. I have been sleeping very well ever since- praise God!!!
The set up.
Branham’s ever-evolving story…… 😵💫🫥😵💫
Kudos to you men for untangling how this evolved.
Remember about 10 yrs ago the appearing “glory” clouds at Bethel?
I'm speaking from the perspective of a non-cult person, but I always found the obsession with pictures in the cult really disturbing. It seemed really dysfunctional, though I didn't really have a lot of evidence for my feelings. And now I see my gut was not wrong. Strangely, my grandmother predicted that the third and fourth generation would see the beginning of the collapse of the Branham cult, i.e., it would be the grandchildren and great-grandchildren that would begin to see through the problems.
I always thought there was something wrong with me because I didn't think the cloud didn't look like a pyramid. That's what the cult did to us. I always thought there was something wrong with we me, never with the nonsense they told us.
They're masters with this. Making you feel stupid, because you don't understand what they try to say. Also make you feel guilty for not agreeing with them... Not to forget the duplicity in this. They say something that one *can* agree with and then slide the meaning of it... And yes, the 'children of God' demonstrate that the wicked can use names like God and Jesus.
@@metapolitikgedanken612 Yep, that's how they manipulated us.
The deepest regret in my life is having been a believer of this hell bound cult ! How on Earth did I stay over 30 years in this thing ? It's freaking and spooky ! Branham was looking for something in people to compensate for what he lacked in life !
Me too. And being in the cult caused terrible things in my life, big and small, like never going to college. Like staying with an abusive husband for 22 years. I mourn the 28 years I gave them that I will never get back. I try to focus on how good my life is now. But those years are a huge loss.
@@lesliewells-ig5dlBe of good cheer. It is experience God will use, for you to assist someone else 🙏🏼
🍿 🍿
Great work
Doesn't the book of Revelation say that the only one worthy to open the seven seals is the lamb that was slain? Last time i heard that was Jesus, not WMB.
I'm really curious now, if my pastor in Ga or Florida knnew about this. I remember getting Rebecca's magazine with that article in the mail! I read the article and thought someone like, that's weird, and didn't even think about it again. Talk about a brain in deep hibernation!! Do you have a link to that article on your website, John? I would love to read it with a brain that isn't asleep! I sure wish I still had that magazine!
william-branham.org/site/resource?key=6d7ea81f-1886-4b43-853d-c1163e4ed5c8&parent=1963_mystery_cloud
Thank you so much!!!
That was really interesting, so Rebecca ne er says why WMB was I. Houston, just that he was invited to preach. And she turns the cloud into one thing and the so called visitation of the angels to WMB into a separate event that happened on March 8th, totally contradicting her father, but scrambling to come up with some hope plausible explanation of the facts. Very interesting. This is the first time I've read anything pro Branham in so long and the verbiage, worshipful attitude and glorification of WMB is nauseating, but I'm glad I read it. It's hard, after reading something like that mot to be really angry at myself for ever believing this nonsense. But being mad at myself for something I started doing over 40 years ago isn't helpful. Thanks for the link!!
Leslie what church in Florida did you go?
@@karens.strickland9634 I went to John Stemen's church. He has since passed away and his son Danny is the pastor. What about you?
This is why all mess age pastors tell the sheep to stay away from “John Collins”and “Believe the sign”
The message cannot stand up to research.
It’s an Only Believe thing
😂 This is so true. They tell them to avoid Leaving the Message and Believe the Sign. Believe the Sign has put out disputation. Let’s hope the respond.
Oh yes. These ministers are not in denial , they have so many things at stake that are the reasons they refuse to check the research of believe the sign
Thank you so much John and Charles for making this video, it's so important!! The cloud, the seals, all of it are so foundational to this cult. Jesus said to build your house on the rock, not the sand. I guess it goes without saying that houses should not be built on clouds. You know John, I, too, regret things i said and attitudes i had towards others when i was in the cult. Especially when my ex was a pastor for 10 years, i gave a lot of women a lot of toxic advice that can send me into a spiral of guilt all these years later and I dismissed people, oh they aren't Christians, fill in the blank. Yeah, I think we all did that. Thanks!!
1963 was the year Doctor Who made its debut, so did Branham predict that?
Sounds like the son in law was comparing branham to Philip and the eunuch. Philip walked with him no more.
39 "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea."
Only difference between branham and philip was branham traveled back in time and philip experienced translating to another place, but not in time. 😂 close but no cigar 😂
Great work as usual I have read the books myself and am familiar with the facts, nonetheless you two did a great job of presenting this!
I wonder if dance school is mandatory for all so called message ministers. They have to dance around lots of different things, since WMB lied about so very many things.
Pearry Green said some people think the rapture happened on February 28, 1963?? How does that work?
The shout is heard by both the living and the dead in Christ, with the dead rising first in response, as supported by passages such as Matthew 25 and 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:17, 5:10; 2 Thessalonians 2:1. Consequently, William Branham's "revelation" of "the Rapture," which claims the shout is exclusively for the living saints, is false. The shout originates from outside the church residing on earth and prompts all saints to "come out" (not "go out"),(Mat. 25:6) and meet the Lord in the air before accompanying Him to earth.The notion of a separate gathering of living saints independent of the dead is contrary to the Scripture-created by William Branham for self-promotion. The same false idea was forcefully touted by Lee Vayle and others.
I sed to try and find the angels in the cloud too. No success!! Another case ofvthe emperor's new clthes. We never stopped talking about the cloud! We talked about it all the time and told people about it and we all thought it was very important. I dont trust any of them.
why do you have Hofmann paiting behind you?
So your saying Bro Branham was a modern day Robin Hood poaching in the Kings Sherwood Forest..
We’ll praise God it all makes sense
He was also a modern day Artful Dodger as well. He stole other peoples work in what was a very clever way at the time.
@@EnlighteningTopicsMuch more Artful Dodger than Robin Hood.
I don't understand how WMB was like Robin Hood, I'd love to hear more about that.
What an unhinged reply.
Please look up on this creation of a squirrel. What a thing to say and his sickness was a squirrel jumping into his stomach
Oh yeah, I remember that.
Didnt WMB claims in at least some of his accounts, that he was ,ifted up into the cloud, not just standing under it?
I wonder if William Branham owned stock in the White Cloud toilet paper company? Hahaha
He wanted to take Jesus's place .. what a lier
You are a deciver if you claim to be a massager of Almighty God Jesus and are in homosexuality or living in sin
Javelina are not pigs but in the Picarry familly they come from south america they are not the European pigs.
😅
@@mattleitner5194 I listen to to this almost every day.
That is very interesting, thank you!!
Could someone please answer this for me. Is there a correlation between the CULT " The Message" and Bible version "The Message" ??
No, there is not.
I've just watched this part 2 of this video and I'm very much disappointed and angry at the same time. If what you guys have said is not true, then I'm deceived. But if what you said is true (with all the evidence you've provided) then I'm deceived again beyond measure. I'm really upset and I must go to church tomorrow 23 July 23.
I've just downloaded the book of Nathan Rivera, A Logic Refutation Of Branham's Message
Jesus loves you
Our Pastor diged into this matter and he lay out the entire correct timeline and yes the prophet was under the cloud on 8 March.
The one that was photographed on February 28?
He could've said, there were 6 angels, because he was supposed to be the 7th angel. just saying
we were told the head of Christ, never saw the pyramid or the head or the angels that formed the cloud
It so wierd to see i how they laugh and mock brother branham. The end is here at our door step. Only time will tell who is on God's side.
😂0nly 2:36 seconds in, camera cuts to Charles.
God was only trying to come close to us so that we can understand Him but we have failed. He has so much love , He suffers to be called bad names only that He should come close to us and listen to our woes. Unfortunately we have misunderstand Him. Too canal to understand. Sorry that we pivked problems in the messages intead of our problems being solved but that dies not disprove God . We will see wgere we went wrong but the message is the truth
Another thing of sects, if you think being part of a sect disqualify someone you're lying to yourself 😁, John the Divine who was the disciple whom Jesus loved and wrote the book of Revelation, was part of a sect called the "Esseniens", so.. 😊
For those unaware of the obvious distraction in this statement, remember to separate ** destructive ** sect/cult from simply using the word "sect" or "cult".
BITE Model:
freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/
Discussion on the subject by cult expert:
freedomofmind.com/john-collins-branhams-message-cult/
Who exactly were you trying to fool with this comment @gessomy1495? The video is presenting how your prophet lied and created a whole story which has enslaved people till death and you’re here typing about John the divine. So you’re not even going to explain how WMB claimed he was at one place when the fact shows that he was at another?
thank you, John.
@@LeavingtheMessage I'm looking for details with what happened inside the Esseniens cult.., be precise man..
@@LeavingtheMessageExactly!!!! Anything that meets the BITE model is incredibly destructive!!
Guys, so what's the problem if he confused the day he was there? Some places he said it was one day or two days before or after, does it mean it didn't experience any supernatural? You guys are so carnal, there's nothing which disqualify him of being a prophet, if we should be upright then we have to disqualify a lot of prophets and people in the Bible too, there's nothing which disqualify WMB of being a prophet, gifts and callings are without repentance. Abraham lied to Abimelec and that never disqualified him of being a patriarch, Hosea went out with a prostitute and that didn't disqualify him of being a prophet, Isaiah told a prophecy to Ezechias about his death and came back to change it, and that didn't disqualify him of being a prophet.., so if you think lying or confusing dates disqualify anyone of being a servant of God, then you need to reject the Bible, otherwise you aren't serious and you just making noise 😀😂😊
Why are you lying to us? You're doing the same thing as William Branham. And why are you disparaging the Bible and the prophets of the Bible in order to defend William Branham? That is wicked.
@@jackinthebox53 I'm presenting facts 😊
What facts? Why do you think it's okay that he lied about being under the cloud?
@@jackinthebox53 He didn't even lie, he just confused dates, so it's normal 😊
@@jackinthebox53 He experienced the supernatural yes, he just confused dates..
It doesn't suprise me the aqusations ,all bad things you say about the ministry and life of the prophet William Marrion Branham, even the Lord Himself they called Him names .This is folly of the devil, why can't concentrate with your ministry and church ,I may ask what have you achieved as prechers or ministers
Continue with these podcasts which are so dry without any soiritual moisture in it . Very sad. Why slienating ourselves from God? Just because of money? I do not understand
U people a being misled, i met the cloud myself,other brothers even caught it in camera,hanging in jungles of Afruca ,small terbanacle s walls,whats blessing u * yoh
There is a man that follows the teach of Branham said there was a second cloud. Can you search that one out for me
Reference number five
william-branham.org/site/research/topics/1963_mystery_cloud
Honestly your dividing and confusing the people of God all around the world without giving them alternative. But our hope is the Bible
He is really our kinsman redeemar Jesus Christ is not kinsman son of God son of David and son of man in this last generation
What are you trying to say? I’m sorry, but it’s not making any sense.
Joba please give your life to Jesus Christ. It is only through Jesus Christ that we are all saved. Forget about WMB, he’s a fraud.
Are you talking about WMB? This comment is not very clear.
Who are you referring to?
@@Blessed628 That's what I want to know too. A lot of people do this, they leave comments and don't make it clear what they actually mean.