Ham Radio - The back yard vertical antenna part 2, Winding the 9:1 UnUn
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2018
- I did plan on doing the 1:1 choke as well, but the video went long. So we'll do the 1:1 in another video.
VK6YSF's diagram I used for the 9:1 can be found here:
vk6ysf.com/unun_9-1_image02.png
The thing-i-verse link to the 3D printable box is here:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:162...
If you like my videos, please subscribe here: th-cam.com/users/loughkb?s...
If you want me to keep making more videos like this, consider becoming my patron at Patreon: / kb9rlw
Discuss this and other videos on Facebook: / kb9rlw
Hit me up on the echolink repeater down by my house: W9TE (Node: 519521) - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[TH] Esports World Cup : Knockout Stage Day 3](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t3FcD5TD8qI/mqdefault.jpg)
Honestly can't figure out why people thumbs down a video like this. Very helpful and informative. Hoping to put together a 9:1 for portable work. Great video thanks.
Why do some people become terorists ?. They are very different from, dare I say normal people. Why do people like Kevin spend hours going over tech stuff on here. Because he likes to help people and pass on knowledge to them. Cary on the good work Kevin. Hope you got over the virus ok. 73 de John - G0WXU.
Owen Allpress
Way to go Sir... EXCELLENT video and I really appreciate your time in putting it together for us. Big thumbs up for you!!
Thank you, KEVIN for explaining the coil winding and the ratio 9:1. Take care of the cough and stay safe. 73s
Kevin thank you for the great video, I just mad one and hung a long wire in our parking lot and it is working just as well as my $300 trapped vertical, I did get some thermostat wire from Home Depot which is solid core #14 gauge they do 2,3 & 5 core all color coded so I now have 50ft of nice antenna wire and jumper wire
I am happy your got the gift of the Haako Soldering station from Terry. I have the same station. My research shows that the proper heat setting for LEAD based solder is 650 degrees F. For Lead Free solder, you can use a higher temperature. One more thing. Be sure to liberally tin your tip of the soldering pencil every time you put the gun in the resting station. That will keep your tip from degrading prematurely. I just built the 1 to 1 and I am going to do the 8 to 1 next. Thanks again for your super easy to understand videos.
Great video thanks for posting and a round of applause for Terry very generous of you
Also, wanted to mention hope you're feeling better and the cough clears up. Thanks again for the FB Video.
Your diagram title picture of the project rocks. I snapped a screenshot so when the internet goes offline I have it 😂
Great tip with using heat shrink tubing to hold the wires together. I built my 4 to 1 balun (OCF dipole) and spent 3 hours winding 6 turns LOL. Looking forward to seeing your new antenna in action. Great video. Keep em coming. 73 DE K7RMJ Frank
Another great video Kevin Thank you for all your hard work. Get well soon m8
Sweet build. Sorry you're feeling poorly. My boy and I both have had it since last Friday a week ago. Just takes time and rest. Get to feeling better soon.
Great video Kevin. Hope you feel better soon mate
While working on my novice the first thing my Elmer W8RTL/SK taught me was baluns. That was 1967 I have built my own ever since. Oh I've tried a couple store bought ones and every one has been a problem. You will spend a little more by building your own but you know when you hang it up what is inside. For those just learning, don't skimp on material cost. A basic antenna analyzer is all you need to test your balun. I started with just a grid dip meter. Have fun and don't rush your projects and remember, all your power out is waisted if your antenna can't hear.
This is the best torriod winding video I have ever seen.
Thanks fer sharing this information. I home made one 9/1 to with an old toroid from an old TV, and works perfectly in 11 meters. I achieve 4,40 meters with a good Swr from 26 to 28 MHz. 7351.
Sorry to hear about the sickness Kevin ...... I hope not to get sickness on TH-cam 8-O Thanks for the great design and build on the UN - UN balun =) Love the 3D printed box =)
Thanks for another great video, very informative, I'm going to build one...
Nice lighter sparky... Great video.
I feel your pain on the sinus infection. I've been down amd out since wednesday with one myself.
glad you liked my balun box....I did a few updated versions...but I still am using that one at my home QTH
Do you have a box design that will hold a FT-240-43?
Wow, you really made this video so a guy like me could follow and make the 9:1 UnUn...thank you for your time making this video.....Feel Better..again thank you w2bud
Great Job Get Well soon thanks for posting
Thanks Kevin! This has been a great help and you have made it a very fun and insightful project. I hope you are well "On the Road" best, K8UKE
Thanks for the video!
Hi Kevin,
Bought the same printer and your startup was a great help, far better than the manual. Intend to use for Amateur Radio and model boat building. Your EFHW box is a good start as I need one.
Thanks again for your very useful and informative Utube videos. G4PEY
Excellent video dude and I really feel bad for you I went through four weeks of this sickness the same thing you got with the coughing fits and yeah hopefully you don't got it that long but my doctor told me to take Delsym for the coughing and boy I'll tell you what for the money you spend on it it really works just thought I'd give you a little pointer on that one so get well thanks for the video
Thanks Kevin for the video. Oh and your Linux videos are fricken great! It just shows Hams can be "cool" too. 73's Dusty KB7ULT CN85sp
Great video have to give it a try 73s from Bloomington
Thanks for the video...... well done. Get well soon.
Good info vid, I have been off the air for so long I have to be reminded. lol.
Superb!!!
Well done to Terry hip hip hooray nice thing to do 73
Very nice! I bought a kit and assembled it, but I'm going to re-do it. Among other things, I want to 3D print a better case (put a threaded socket on it so I can make a mast out of an aluminum painters extension pole).
You might want to seal it. One trick I got from sealing the differential on a car I had was to put a little bit of rtv on it, but don't tighten the screws all the way. Once it sets, give them the final turn.
kevin want to thank you for the info here as I needed one for portable portable outings.As you see the comment is later on well!! I have caught your cold I should have Mast the Screen ,,By the way the 1 to 1 video ? what number would it be on ? And what length of antenna wire used 40, 20 ? 73's Kevin
Hi Kevin excellent all your videos!!!please I want to know when can i use ferrite core ft140-31 or ft140-43
for 20 MHZ and 40 MHz band to make a balun 1:1 and 9:1. I am talking about when can i use Mix 31 or Mix 43.thanks in advance Eddy from Florida.
Caro Sr. Kevin Loughin,
Viva!
Excelente Trabalho e muito util de tal foma que vou partilhar com os meus amigos.
Goatría de lhe perguntar se existe algum tipo de fio que recomende ?.
Obrigado.
Malhores Cumprimentos.
Your printer did a nice job on that box.
You should manufacture those enclosures,seem like a nice snug fit :)
Hay great Kevin hope get better soon, and very nice job on the Box, 3D printer ? And I slip video in Save as I need to bulid one up for the GoBox , and yes I always use 1to1"s on my coax, and Magnetic Loop.Well done didn't have to send flowers you made it thru !! lol lol 73's Kevin
What size troid would I need for 14 gage or 12 gage wire? I have some electoral wire that I can use and it is 3 colors. I will need a bigger box but should handle any power I can put to it. Thanks for the information!
Hi Kevin, great video. I'm about to make one of these using a T-200/2. If I use 16 awg solid copper will 200- 300 watts be ok?
Thanks, Mark
Yeah, that should be ok. I think I used 16 gauge wire on one I wound for a local ham that regularly pushed 400 watts through it with no issues.
Good video, packed with tips, fine bid-ness HI HI
I gotta take a trip, but I will order stuff today. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks... W2AAO
VERY VERY GOOD. VERY HELPFUL.
De VU2UYC. Email bsnvu2yc73s@gmail.com
Thanks for this very informative video. Question: Being that a Vertical is an unbalanced Antenna should an 1:1 unun transformer be used if the feedline is coax? What is the typical impedance of a Vertical antenna at resonance?
A choke down the feedline can help if you get zapped.
This type of antenna isn't resonant at all at its working frequencies, in fact you explicitly avoid resonance to exploit lower impedance at the feed.
As much as I appreciate this series I would rather you wait until you are well - we don't want any relapses!!
Using three different colored enamel wires would winding the coil easier but 24 AWG wire might be better, I hope that polylactate box might disintegrate over a period of time as it is biodegradable I think.
Sorry about your cold. . I've seen another build up to 49 to one. I love the type 2 toroid and it's used a lot in Auto Tuners of various brands, including the MFJ. I'll have to check my new 7300 and see if they are using it ? Hot glue won't work in my area. Its melted here, very hot in Redding CA. N6GRG on JS8CALL
Did you miss soldering the connection by the so-239, I think it was the ground.? I didnt hear it if you said that the box was printed...3d printed that is..nice video as always..hope you feel better...if this is an old video oh well..
According to the Amidon website, you should not use T-XXX-2 toroidal core for a 9: 1 balun because the initial permeability is to low (10μ).
They recommend a FT-XXX-27 core which has an initial permeability of 2000-6000μ.
73 de DK3JF
There's always a way to improve on almost anything.
Awesome video Kevin! Love from India :)
Just did a Kit form amazon with all the parts and it had the 3 magnet wire lengths twisted first, before wrapping around teh toroid. What is the diffeence between twisted and flat wrap around the toroid??
One other question: would adding a common mode choke to this improve the performance at all?
FYI you can get large gage color coded ribbon cable. However in 2021 the new cost is over $1.00 per foot. Colored markers are cheap. I would use 12/4G or 14/4g house wire Romex with the g removed.
Looks like a drive mounting rail for a computer case of some sorts starting at 21:32
Hey Kevin I corresponded with you about your 9:1 unun project about a month ago.( I cannot find the messages we exchanged). Anyway... I did make the unun, and wish I could send you a couple of pictures. I have 2. I did put it up at a local park and did some tests with it. I took my FT-891 (set to 50W output power) and an FC-50 tuner, a 66' - 18AWG stranded long wire. I stuck the unun on the top of a 33' MFJ extension pole, and strung it through a couple of trees at a local park. I tuned it up on all of the bands. 80M - 6M. and got great readings on the S meter (using the tuner). Just barely moved the needle on all of the bands, except 80M. Those readings were a bit high, I didn't key up too much on 80, except to ID. I did make contact on 20M with two California guys (one on the Oregon/California border and one just east of Los Angeles) I got great signal reports from them. Then I had to pack it in. My wife, Chris (W2CTC) went with me. And while she does get excited for me about being pleased with outcome my efforts, I could tell she'd had enough sitting in the Limousine (My Ford Flex). I say all of that because as soon as we got home she started looking at houses and online realtors. She thought I didn't have fun stringing up the antenna and stuff. It was rather cool (in the low 30's) that day, and I got frustrated with getting my roped tennis ball over the trees. But I'm glad because after we had sold our house a few years ago we were set against buying another house because we were tired of up keep and snow and lawn mowing and sh-tuf breaking. I got the ham bug again, after many years of not, and longed for a place to play radio again. Maybe I'll get a place for a tower after all, hey... Thanks for the encouragement. W2AAO
Thanks Lawry, I'm glad it worked out for you. There is a bit of an added thrill when you work with an antenna you built and it works out well.
Get well Kevin 73
Very nice job, looks good. For those of you that want to know more about how Baluns work may I suggest checking out Peter over at the TRX bench channel, he did a very nice 3 part series (videos #100, #101, and #105) that I feel is probably one of the best on the internet. Thanks for sharing and I hope you feel better soon.
Good info. Peter rambles on even more than I do, but is very detailed in what he presents. Good channel if you've got some time to spare. His repairs are extremely detailed too.
Play his videos at 1.25X and it sounds nearly perfect.
kEVIN, ABSOLUTELY ENJOY YOUR CHANNEL DIRECT SHORT AND TO THE POINT . HOPE YOUR RV TRAVELS TAKE YOU TO FUN ADVENTURES . COME VISIT ME AND XYL IN THE OZARKS ANYTIME ,,GOOD PLACE TO CAMP DOWN ON BULL SHOALS LAKE/WHITE RIVER ,RIGHT ON THE RIVER AND CLEAN FACILITIES .BE WELL ,73S AJ W5HEH
It’s now December 2020. Who else thought Covid when he coughed? This video is 2 years old. Strange how things have changed.
Nice video! just to clarify are the radials and ground rod effectively connected together, also are the length of the radials here important or just random? many thanks.
Yes, the wires are connected to the rod and the shield side of the incoming coax.
This is a non-resonant antenna, requiring a tuner, so the length of them doesn't matter as much.
Tnx for the video on how to wind a Toriod. Will be making a 9:1 unun once the Toriod arrives. Where did you locate the nice box??
That box was a model up in thingiverse that I then printed on my 3D printer.
Very cool...Nice job.
Kevin, it looks like any toroid smaller than 2" would have been too small to wrap all that 18 ga wire onto. What do you think?
The insulation is rather thick on that wire. I used a T130 on my other end fed with doorbell wire from Lowes. There was still a small gap between each turn and it works great. You could use enamel coated magnet wire too.
Nice lighter!
The strange thing is that I have a bad sinus infection as I watch this. Tomorrow I go for Ct Scan to check for polyps. I don't know if you have been blessed with them or not. That can be a hole new level of pain. Then the fun part is when they laser them off. Oh the fun of getting older!
Do you try this on a video?
Been watching "How to's" and getting enough knowledge to try to make my own. So far, you're the only one to explain the torrid mystery for us. I'm going to order the T-130-2.
I'd like to see what you did with the choke... Thanks for the videos and the effort... W2AAO
I don't think I have a video where it's in use. But I have used it multiple times for temporary field use and it worked just fine. Putting the choke in line reduces the RF on the coax shield, but you then need a good counterpoise wire off the unun to give that rf somewhere to go or the antenna goes deaf.
ten fer on the unun, well done.
We all here got the nasty flu too this month, um still coughing,, take deep breaths, cough the crap out.
Our quad daughter Holly got it worse, ended up with pneumonia and sepsis. She went into septic shock, almost killed her last week. She was in ICU four days. They moved her to a nursing home yesterday for recovery and antibiotic treatments via IV. Pneumonia is a lung infection, sepsis is the infection getting into the blood stream. Septic SHOCK can kill quickly, like a heart attack, or MODS, do to lack of oxygen in to the organs. Signs of septic shock: high fever over 102d, or low temp under 96d, hard breathing, high heartbeat, and especially LOW BLOOD PRESSURE. If anyone suspects sepsis, get to the ER ASAP! I was clueless about it ten day ago. This flu is nasty, we must be careful about relapse too.
Don
I'm testing a 9:1 unun that i made with an antenna analyzer. Can i use 'any' type of 450 ohm resistor or must it be a carbon non inductive type?
Yes, Carbon or ceramic composit, just not wire-wound.
thank you kevin for your video, start making mine soon, john pa7yi
Kevin- I am new to Home brew, Is there one supplier of parts or can you provide a list of possible suppliers for enclosures, torroids etc,
Digi-key Corp.
Hey. Wanting to build one of these. But can you tell me ?? Will this cover 6 thru 40. At 100 watts. So much information. I learned something today. Thanks
HF for sure, but I don't know about 6. I think you need a different core type, plus any wire that's long enough for 40 meters, isn't going to radiate very well at all on 6 meters. Way too long.
Nice Video, Kevin. Where did you get the case?
3D printed it from design I found on thingiverse.com
Not that it matters at the 100 watt power level, but is that generic insulated wire or teflon insulated? BTW in my experience, three wires cut the same length never are. Watching the build.
Generic general purpose wire. Jacket says it's good up to 600V on the insulation. breakdown.
what Bubba is worded about is heat when you get in to the 500w range things can start to heat up bad and the Jacket will start to soften up.. i use the same wire on my stuff but i only run 100w
I cringed every time you stripped the wire thinking you were gonna take skin on the push..I guess you were lucky..but this was an EXCELLENT video.i was able to under stand Evey step..only difference for me will be the use of different colored wires..thank you for your time
Hi Kevin,
Nice build. If you had started with the black marks already on the wires before winding, you wouldn't need to check for continuity to identify the wires. 73 WB3BJU
Hi Don, Yep, I facepalmed while editing and went back in and soldered it.. I wonder how many people are going to comment about that? ;-)
Kevin,
Can you edit the description below the video? 73 WB3BJU
No, I'm actually interested in seeing how many viewers spot it now. It can be a kind of survey of how closely they're paying attention. :-)
Hi Kevin,
So far it appears the number is not to high. :-) 73 WB3BJU
Coming from a Broadcast Television environment, you always mark both ends of a cable before you pull it.
I built one of these with a T-200 torroid core in micrometals #6 mix (yellow) using 9 turnes and it would NOT transform on 80 meters! it worked on higher bands as tested with an swr analyzer and a 450 ohm carbon resistor as a load. I wound another one using 17 turns and it works perfectly on 80 but has too much reactance on 15 and above...I will be happy with 17 turns for the next 4 years then I will add a capacitor to cancel some of the reactance on higher frequencies..
Only use iron powder toroids to make induction coils! For baluns, ununs and certainly for common mode chokes you need ferrit cores, FT 140-61 for the 1:9 and FT 140-43 for the choke!!! Iron powder cores don't do anything against common mode, a beginner class should know this.
Straight screws ?
Is your 3D printed box design available? Nice vid!
No, I don't think I uploaded that one to thingaverse. Honestly it was not a very good box, the walls were too thin, they were various other issues. There are much better boxes available upon the site
Hi I’m KP4ALM we’re I can find those diagram
Can you use uninsulated wire?
I bought a kit with the needed parts, the provided instructions called for twisting the wires, which I'm ignoring, but it also occurred to me the wires may be better insulated?
The wire needs to be insulated from contact with the conductive core.
@@loughkb Thanks for the response!
I found out the wire is coated. First time doing all of this and when I went to check the continuity I got no response from my multi-meter. I just removed the coating where the connections will be made and the continuity test worked. I assume that is sufficient?
Great video. Thanks a lot!
Did you ever go back and solder the ground connections as you hadn't done it when you closed up the box?
Yes.
Why do the SO-239 threads look all chewed up? Also, are you looking to add a electrical wire stripper to your tool bag?
Silver plated connector and the silver has tarnished over the years.
Is there any rules about the insuulation? Can I use 14 gage enameled wire? That is smaller and easier to work with. Can the 9 to 1 and the current balun inside the same pipe and how much space should be between them? I was thinking about putting then both in a pipe. The SO239 to the current balun then something to space the 9 to 1 then to the antenna 450 ohm ladder line stub to the antenna. I understand your troubles. I get sinus infection. They are no fun!
People often build baluns with magnet wire. Be sure to put tape over the core first, like plumbers tape. The sharp edges on most cores can cut through the coating on enameled wire and short it otherwise.
Didn't look like you soldered the ground. Now you have to open it back up to check. I hate it when that happens, Carl
You're the second one to catch that. I saw it while editing and did a facepalm, then went and soldered it.
When you get as old as I am you don't have to be sick to make that kind of boo boo. Been there done that, HI HI Carl
Yup I was about to comment and decided I better check to see if anyone else mentioned it first, glad you found it before you installed it.
Looks to me like you missed soldering the ground lug that crosses over to the so-239?
I did, it just didn't get caught on camera.
You could have marked each end of the wires before you wound the toriod then you wouldn't need a meter
This is a very simple question which I'm pretty sure will have a very simple answer but I just want to be sure. I use an ICOM AH-4 Auto Tuner to feed a random wire of almost 90 feet. How would I connect this between the Tuner and the wire? The AH-4 does not have an SO-239 output. Would it be OK to use a small length of Coax and leave the sleeve disconnected at the Tuner end??
No, that would be no different from a length of wire. You would need to tie the shield side to the ground of the tuner.
@@loughkb Ok there is a wingnut Ground on the bottom of the AH-4 which I use for counterpoise wires. I guess I could connect it there. Thanks I have ordered the parts and will be building one when they arrive. Thanks for the quick response. John WB2TQC
Or, before you wind the coil, leave one wire unmarked, one line with a sharpie around both ends of another wire and two lines around each end of the third.
wherre's the ham
I hope you get to feeling better. This stuff going around is just nasty and takes forever to get over.
Dust core toroids give too litle inductance for this pupose hence you will get some strange results
Helow please showme to build at the balum for work with 300 ohms thankyou
1 or 2 less windings.
Kevin, you're the best TH-cam Elmer out there! Thank you for all your help and encouragement! My name is Esteban and my call is KX4EZ. 73
If you do no transmitting at all, only receiving, would you still need this kind of hardware?
No.
@@loughkb Thnx!
Very good video on building a 9:1 balun. I enjoyed learning how to do make one . This will be a new experience for me.73 AE4OY WILLIAM EM-81UF I hope you get doing better with the sinus infection .
Thank you, very informative. I have a novice question - why is that called an "UnUn"?
The terms Balun and Unun are concatenations of the words Balanced and Unbalanced, referring to the types of systems they connect.
A symmetrical dipole where both legs are the same length, is a balanced system. Twinlead ladder line is also a balanced system where both sides are identical in length and gauge.
Coax is an unbalanced system, lacking physical and electrical symmetry between the two conductors.
An end fed wire antenna is unbalanced.
So and Unun connects an unbalanced system to and unbalanced system, like an end fed wire to coax.
A Balun connects a balanced system to an unbalanced system, like a dipole to a coax.
@@loughkb Thank you, your explanation is very helpful.
Kevin, thank you very much. Enjoying your videos. Very helpful for something with a new ticket. Looking at the wound toroid at 15:12 into the video, the wires cross over the upper face and then through the toroid nine times. The referenced diagram (vk6ysf.com/unun_9-1_image02.png) show the wires passing over the face and then through the toroid ten times. Confused. Seems to be different. Which is correct? What am I not understanding?
I did mention that in the video, that the diagram shows 10 but we're using 9. I think I even had it in the text above the diagram.
You did, both mention and on the diagram.
I think that this is a nicely produced video, but it seems to create some confusion regarding what the 9:1 ratio refers to. Of course we are trying to match an assumed 450 ohm load to a 50 ohm line (9:1 transform, can we agree).
Can we agree that this is an auto-transformer too?
You can use the circuit design for one pass through the toroid and have three loops from antenna to ground, and one from the xmtr center conductor shared with one loop of that antenna circuit. 3:1 turns ratio. Square the turns ratio, you get a 9:1 transformer.
9 turns of that trifiliar winding would give you 27 total turns, 27:9 = 3:1 turns. Square that, it's a 9:1 transformer.
Any number of turns with the trifiliar winding will result in a multiple of 3 turns, be it 8,9,10,11...(24,27,30,33...).
It will also have 1/3 of them shared (8,9,10,11). Hence the 3:1 turns ratio. Up to a point, more total turns are better.
With slight modification to that circuit, you could do a four wire winding and have a 16:1 impedance matcher.
I'm convinced that a different method is used for a 49:1 match. Probably twisting 2 wires for a 3 or 4 loop shared ( primary/secondary) wrap, and finishing the secondary with one of those wires for an additional 18 or 24 wraps.
18+3=21, 21:3 = 7:1 and turns ratio squared = 49:1
24 +4 = 28, 28:4 = 7:1 .........-> 49:1
9:1 was chosen as the best assumption for the match. The circuit shown allows for any number of (groups of three) turns, be it 8, 9, 22.....
And it's still 9:1.
I don't claim to have the final word here. If I've got a logic fail, let me know.
Built one using a core salvaged from a computer PSU, and then added a 100pF capacitor in parallel with the input and a GDT protecting the output. Works great for transmitting, although obviously not for receiving. The impedance is around 50Ω at 700MHz. You can see my amateur build here: twitter.com/bloguetronica/status/1246208961033973761.
This looks like 10 winds (counting the passes inside) and not 9. This always confuses me. How many winds are in the diagram?
You count the number of times the wires pass through the center. It should be 9, but I've seen diagrams with 8 and with 10. With a tuner, any of those will work. Some better depending on the length of the radiating wire. Experiment to see what works best for your situation.
*Y LA PRUEBA FINAL CON ROIMETRO????*
COMO SABER SI QUEDO BIEN,Y SIN ONDAS ESTACIONARIAS??
*((( SE LO DEBE PROBAR CON 1 RESISTENCIA DE 450 OHMS COMO CARGA)))))!!!!!!*